Oops he missed.mpg

The regulations in the General Appendix stipulate for the hand exchange of ETS tokens a max of 15 mph during daylight and 10 mph during the night. I'll let you be the judge. Westbound interstater 3SA5 stomps out of Parkes yard.
This sequence is now included in the DVD Working West Interstaters available from Alcoworld Ingleburn NSW.

[@3ru457]

I'm impressed by how quickly the 80 class could slow down and accelerate

[@aussiealco]

Yes, Aussie Alcos did have good throttle response, just don't go from power into dynamic brake or vice versa too quickly and cause a sump oil surge and cop a low lube shutdown on an 80 class.

[@struck2soon]

The long walk of shame back to the signalman...

[@nealmorris495]

THEN AN ECPLANATION TO THE Train Controller.

[@vk2amv]

I thought I recoginised the number of the lead loco when I first saw this video. I checked this morning and I was right. Loco 8023 is now sitting up at the Gemco Workshop Yards here in Parkes, and has been for at least the last 7 years that I am aware of, very slowly being pulled apart for scrap. It still has the same paint scheme from the video, but is missing a hell of a lot of parts and body panels now. Is a bit sad to see it working hard in this video and to see the same loco as scrap now.

[@ozloon2000]

did you know Ron hawk is vk2mu

[@Nealeb1970]

Just ordered that DVD, can't wait to watch it

[@aussiealco]

G'day Neale, My humble home movies are ancient history now days. But, at least we were still governmental back then, unlike the modern day. Russell should still have a copy or two of each of me humble home movies. I hope that you enjoy the memories when you get around to squzzing it. That endless ratchet hand brake chain rattle. AH, them good old beasties the 80 class. I doubt that I would enjoy many of the modern day weasels. Steve.

[@robertchinnock8017]

I used to watch the guys at albion park railway station and sometimes both staff help each oth with the freight trains coming thru as 1 picks up the old staff at 1 end of the station and the othe gives the new staff not to far down for the loco driver..

[@theborge442]

I bet that's not the first time that's happened. lol, keep these great videos coming Steve.

[@SheltonDCruz]

Thanks Steve!

[@bumerangsydney]

Must have been pain in the arse to stop the train because of that!

[@toshtownslate8407]

great footage!!!

[@cagorrie]

Excellent vid, thanks

[@tammyhall2970]

People make mistakes sometimes, my dad was a very smart man and worked very hard for many years on the railway even did management in the office, there was a lot worse incidents/mistakes made here at parkes than what this was.

[@aussiealco]

G'day Tammy, Yes, I know that worse mistakes are made on the railway. This was just an amusing incident that occurred right in front of me. I know how difficult it is to catch an ETS peg on the fly if the hoop is not being utilized. Steve.

[@NoBody-ht1oh]

Departure Massey Ferguson style

[@dougborrett3566]

I guess his hair must have been in his eyes.

[@gibbsey9579]

Hi Steve. As a child, I lived on the Dorrigo branch line, till I was 15. (Till 1971). Alco's only here, mostly 48 class but sometimes 44's. When they had a 44 we would sometimes ask the driver, and he would spend his crib break taking us for a tour of the engine room. Then later when living in Grafton, I had a job working next to the railway line, I learned a great respect for the 45 class as they struggled in singles or sometimes two up, the climb at little more than a walking pace. I didn't care how much the boss yelled, I was not moving till The train passed.

[@aussiealco]

G'day Gibbsey, The Dorrigo branch was a definite challenge for both loco crews and gangers. When Jonsey relocated to Dorrigo, I did wonder IF such a venture would succeed. A Lithgow engineman did move to Dorrigo and I did encounter him on one visit. According to me 1964 North WTT, train numbers 1 and 2 were tabled for 440 ton (447 tonne) with a 44 class. 19, 50, 79, 48, 49 and 44 classes being permitted to work the Dorrigo branch. This does intrigue me as for the Oberon branch, ONLY 19, 50, 48, 49 classes were permitted. I recollect that at one time a 45 class did trundle up to Oberon, but never a 44 class to my knowledge. Yes, Oberon was steeper at 1 in 25 whereas Dorrigo being 1 in 30. Plus, 5 chain curves were common to Oberon, while the minimum curve to Dorrigo was 7 chains. I had recently been prompted to delve into the comparison of Alco tri-mount bogies with centre pivot. The 45 class having tri-mount while the 44 class having centre pivot. Sadly, not a lot of info is available. The 45 class were known as good pullers, that being due to superior traction amperage available. The 45 class capable of a max of 990 amps continuous, while the 44 class being only 610 amps. Though, both units were limited to a similar maximum load on ruling grades. A 45 in short time ratings could get down to 8 kph for a max of 4 minutes. While the 44 class was only permitted to get down to 17 kph for 4 minutes. The 45 class were regarded as Bone Shakers, and also very draughty in the cab. Hence the 45 class were banned as lead unit for some years. The cab mods to become the 35 class was an attempt at improving the conditions. The 44 class engineroom was cramped. First series 44 class did not have a hotplate up the number two end cab originally. So, you had to carry the billy through to the number one end cab to heat the water. Trying to avoid brushing against the donk on the way through. A number of crews preferred the number two end cab as it was quieter. I can tell you that a ground relay in the number one cab is like a shotgun blast. I did enjoy the "floating along" ride of the 44 class. Ah the good ole days, Aussie Alcos rattling around everywhere. Steve.

[@gibbsey9579]

@@aussiealco Thanks for your reply Steve, I always wondered why the 45's tractive effort was so much higher than the 44. Now I know. Something else you might be able to clear up for me, Mark Tronson in one of his books stated that mark one 48's were restricted to... I think it was 100kph while mark two's could run at 115. I asked a retired driver at the Junee roundhouse museum once, and he told me that they could all run at 115kph. Thanks again for your reply. Lots of good information there.

[@aussiealco]

G'day Gibbsey, Locomotive speed is determined by locomotive design and track class conditions. The manufacturer provided design specifications and the purchasing railway then performed tests. Regarding the 48ers, the manufacturers specified maximum speed was 120 kph. And the maximum load climbing a 1 in 40 was 460 tonne. However, the NSWR chose to impose a maximum speed of 105 kph for Mark 1 and Mark 2 units. And a max speed of 115 kph for Mark 3 and Mark 4 units. A further stipulation imposed a blanket MAX speed of 100 kph when hauling express Mail and Pas jobs. Naturally hauling express jobs, the loco would be working at high speed for longer periods. This to prevent damage to either the traction motor or main generator armatures. Mark 1 units had a different Main Generator to the others. And, Mark 1 and 2 units had a different Traction Motor to the others. Manufacturers and consequently railways also imposed motoring and throttle restrictions when passing over points etc. Reducing throttle notch or coasting to prevent potential damage and ground relays due to the impact vibrations. So, you ask WHY did chargemen bung 48ers onto express trains ? Well, the available motive power was utilized mostly, especially after express pas jobs reduced in capacity. And the loco crew were responsible for how they worked the motive power. And, in some regions of NSW, there are not that many very lengthy sections of 115 kph track. Per example there are only six short sections of track speed in excess of 100 kph between Lithgow and Orange. When working the loco hauled day train with a 48 or 49 at a max of 100 kph, you could maintain sectional running time. The 49 class were permitted a max speed of 115 kph. However, likewise were restricted to a max of 100 kph when hauling express Mail and Pas jobs. The Max speed of 100 kph for 48ers and 49ers is stipulated today in the current TOC manual. The 47 class are also today included in the Max speed of 100 kph category. The maximum loads were detailed in the various working time tables for 1 in 40s etc. But, the general max load imposed by the NSWR was 410 tonne climbing a 1 in 40 with any 48er. This to ensure that the loco did not fall below Balancing Speed and into short time ratings. Remain in short time ratings for extended periods and you cook the traction motors. AC traction locos don't have short time ratings and can crawl at minimal speed endlessly in full power. Locomotive transition and field shuts also vary according to the locomotive design type. And was a reason why the NSWR adjusted the multiple unit max loads downwards compared to individual loads. A Main Line unit MUed with a branchliner required the branchliner to reduce to half of the Main Line unit load. Per example on a 1 in 40, a Main Liner capable of 615 tonne and a branchliner capable of 410 tonne. However, when MUed together, the branchliner reduced to 307 tonne, hence a max of 922 tonne. Today, a max load reduction of 10% is applied when MUing certain loco classes. Which, incidentally would result in the same 922 tonne load IF applicable for a 44 class MUed with a 48er. Locomotive draw gear capacity also comes into the maximum trailing tonnage picture. Earlier 48ers were Medium draw capacity while later 48ers were Heavy draw capacity. Medium draw capacity on a 1 in 40 being restricted to a max of 2207 tonne. This also affected the 44 class. Steve.

[@gibbsey9579]

@@aussiealco Lots of information there.I'll have to study it.. Very much appreciate the reply.

[@johnpro2847]

I recall years ago,once the Adelaide to Melbourne freighter (jet) dropped the staff on the auto staff exchange.The distant signal was off so the train was going flat out. The staff flew up into the air like a football.

[@aussiealco]

G'day Johnpro2, I have never squizzed an auto staff exchanger in action here in NSW. They did exist on the North Coast line to Brissy. But, I have been told that they could be dangerous and nobody should stand anywhere near it. The incoming staff hoop could accidentally fly off the exchanger screw. Steve.

[@johnpro2847]

@@aussiealco Yes ..My experience at the time was at Glenorchy Vic . We were instructed to keep well back as they can be very dangerous ..but is was a real buzz all the same when it worked well.

[@johnpro2847]

@@aussiealco This is the speed they used to thunder through at ..not auto or same station but gives you an idea kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJmxn3mkj72Anas

[@aussiealco]

Ok, I will take a squiz at yer video clip when the local library re-opens for business in 2019. Steve.

[@aussiealco]

G'day, I am the local library and viewed the you tube video clip. Yes, the train is hoiking along. Steve.

[@afs5609]

what happen to the bamboo hoops that I seen in use on the west in the 1960's?

[@aussiealco]

The hoops still existed at a number of locations and were used when necessary. The section between Parkes and Goobang East is short. Plus the train was departing Parkes yard.

[@leonkernan]

The signallers body language says it all.

[@gosportjamie]

You know, that wouldn't have happened if you hadn't been pointing the camera at him lol... I wonder how long it was before he stopped hearing about that one... And that definitely looked like a lot more than 15mph...

[@andrewr2825]

What a great turn of acceleration those 80’s had! Not bad considering they only lost a couple of minutes for that hiccup!! And I’d love to know what the conversation (or polite words) - if any - were between the signalman (no political correctness, here) and the secondman.

[@aussiealco]

G'day Andrew, Yes, I really enjoyed working the 80s, though my cohorts mostly preferred the EMD things. Most Aussie Alcos were fast to respond to the throttle. But, you did hafta be careful with the 80s. Rip em open too quickly, or go between power and dynamic brake too quickly and you would cop the beep beep beep and silence. You had to avoid a surge in the sump oil, which could trip the low lube and shut her down. The grade climbing away from Parkes yard is about 1 in 105 averaged. So, not a difficult restart for them. On the other hand, attempting to get away from Charbon Junction with a 3300 tonner coalie was a different matter. Yes, I would presume that the pointcop would have been a tad annoyed. Steve.

[@tatersalad9416]

Signalmen didn't like it when we warmed the staff up on the hot plate before giving to them. Lol

[@daddyflumpengland499]

Anyone tell what type of engines are in these locos? Sound like our large Sulzer locos

[@aussiealco]

No, not sulzer, MLW CE615 V12 Alco donks producing 2000hp. There were some Sulzer units in SA and the Northern Territory. Steve.

[@maciggamabigga415]

I look like a 800 class

[@NeathSpadge]

You do?

[@imacgra1]

@@NeathSpadge they did - on the old narrow gauge line to the Alice - NSU and NJ class. Museum pieces now.

[@NeathSpadge]

@@imacgra1 I was responding to the comment abovevwhere someonecsays he looks like an 800 class.

[@DL541]

Do any lines in Australia use track warrants?

[@aussiealco]

G'day DL541, Yes, Track Warrants are utilized down-under, but are not as prevalent as Train Orders. The Iron Ore railways in the Pilbara region of WA did have Track Warrants in use on various branch lines. I am not sure if that remains the situation today. I worked under Track Warrant Control while toiling in Tasmania. That system was introduced by Burkhardt when ATN acquiring Tasrail in 1998. Prior to that, Aussie National had implemented Train Order working in Tassie. During my era, they were paper warrants compiled by the Train Driver as issued by Train Control. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f3imeIiBgdCtnrs This clip shows me compiling a Track Warrant while working south in Tassie. Today, the Tassie Track Warrants are digital. Some rail systems down-under utilize a form of DTC. Sadly, the old timer Electric Train Staff, plus, Ordinary Train Staff and Ticket systems are virtually vanished to history. Train Order Working was introduced here in NSW in 1998 to replace ETS and eventually OTS&T. The first section implemented being Orange to Dubbo. Then, gradually TOW was implemented across the remainder of the rural single line network in NSW. Rail Vehicle Detection system is utilized on double track and single line sections with frequent rail traffic. Steve.

[@DL541]

@@aussiealco, G'Day! I work here in the US, love your channel. I work on a short line that uses track warrants but also early on in my carreer worked for roads that used DTC. Thank you for the response, Take care, WGH

[@aussiealco]

G'day DL541 aka WGH, I am pleased that you enjoy my video clips. You have the correct moniker, DL541, for a fan of my channel. The NSWR 45 class (DL541) were not regular visitors to Lithgow where I toiled for many years. But, I did get on them occasionally. The union banned them as lead unit for some time due to draughty cabs. It was common to see trains worked by a dinky toy 48 class DL531 in the lead of a 45 class on the North Coast line. But, then no dynamic brake as the 48ers were not fitted with it. We called such a lash-up as a Son and Father. Some 45 class had cab modifications, becoming the 35 class, but those mostly worked around Werris Creek NSW. The 48ers were my fav loco here in NSW. Bonzer for shunting. I did enjoy working Tassie trains with Track Warrant Control, once I became accustomed to it. We could run trains in convoy, using the Box 17, other specific instructions. A local adaptation. Using radio communication between the trains to maintain a 5 km separation. You had to know where you were. The train radio system down in Tassie was Open Channel, so everyone knew what was going on. Conversely, here in NSW, the Train Radio system is discrete between each train and TC. I was not a fan of the Train Order system introduced here in NSW. I preferred the old timer ETS and OTS&T systems. If you have any other questions about the Aussie railways, zap an email to me at [e-mail] Steve.

[@imacgra1]

surprised how fast he stops that train. Hope there weren't too many flat wheels!

[@aussiealco]

G'day Gray, Yes, he gives it the lot, including allowing the engine brakes to slam on. You can hear the train run into the locos and then when he sets sail again, the run-out of coupler slack. Wagon load compensaters would prevent some flat wheels, but generally not during emergency applications. You can hear the clunk clunk of some flat wheels when the train passes through Condobolin. This footage including other sequences including cab rides appears on my DVD titled Working West Interstaters. The DVD is available from Alcoworld at Ingleburn NSW. Featuring glorious 80 class aussie alcos, plus some AN green and yellow at Broken Hill. Steve.

[@SheltonDCruz]

when was this shot?

[@aussiealco]

G'day Sheldon, The title tells you that I shot this on 5 october 1994. Back when 80 class featured on all westbound interstaters. Steve.

[@EveningStar9F]

Hence the saying: “There’s drivers and there’s drivers” Benny:)

[@PoathTV]

tee hee :-)

[@ozloon2000]

Have a look no shame the signalman could have stretched his arms out and stand closer the Fireman was nearly out of the cab also he could have done it in the door way you can get lower

[@aussiealco]

G'day Ron, The law was the law, manual exchange of ETS or OTS&T tokens, max speed of 25 kph during day and 15 kph during nite. That prevented any crew injury resulting from attempting to take a peg at speed. Yes, the ETS hoop did help but still required the above speeds. I know a fireman who once got a bruise up his arm from attempting to take the ETS hoop at higher speed. Steve.

[@ozloon2000]

@@aussiealco what does the speed have to do with haw close the signal person stands

[@aussiealco]

G'day Ron, You obviously have not stood inside the yellow line on a platform while a freighter rattles past. The reason why that yellow line exists. The pointcop should not need to place himself in danger to exchange the ETS token. Nor for that matter, the train crew either. The metal pegs (ETS staff) will naturally cause injury if not handled correctly. Yes, the use of a bamboo hoop to hold the peg would have provided a greater distance from the pointcop's body. But, hoops were not always used, depending upon circumstances. Had the train been proceeding at the correct speed, the second person would have collected the peg. Steve.

[@ozloon2000]

@@aussiealco no but i have driven fright trains

[@aussiealco]

G'day Ron, Well, you should know then how painful it is attempting to grab an ETS or OTS peg at incorrect speed. When I got onto the senior firemans roster, I was to work the Silver Streak west and back. Back in the days when it ran three times per week. A cohort approached me saying that I was with Hurricane and to be WARY. He showed me the bruise up his arm from attempting to grab the ETS hoop at Molong. Hurricane had the reputation for SPEED. Working W2 home from Parkes we approached Molong. Hurricane begged; What speed can you take the peg ? I replied; at 25 kph during day and 15 kph during nite. He sneered at me. He ripped them open as we approached the 20 kph TSR over the old wooden bridge. We were well over 40 kph as the platform hove into view and still on the 20 speed, the pointcop looking apprehensive. Hanging out the window, I decided to drop the incoming hoop onto the platform. I then retracted me arm as we sailed past the pointcop. OH I missed, I yelled at Hurricane. He hurled out the anchors, the train coupler slack slamming into us as we shuddered to a stop. I hoofed back to collect the outgoing peg. The pointcop thanking me from not attempting to grab the hoop as he had been injured a couple of days ago. Same bloke, I commented. AH, I should put him in for speeding, but then I would also get you into trouble, he replied. Climbing back aboard, after the tirade of ranting and raving, we shuddered away. Nothing more was said to me for the remainder of the voyage. But, I had achieved the desired result, all subsequent staff exchanges were at the correct speed. Another fireman had to hold in the vigo button to dump the air when Hurricane sped past a stick at stop. SPEED kills as they say for the roads. Steve.

[@robd3529]

Walk of shame 🚶🏻‍♂️_____🚊