Operating FM Satellites with M2 Eggbeater Antennas and the Icom ID-5100 Transceiver

Sean Kutzko, KX9X, and Ward Silver, N0AX, show you how to get on the FM “birds” by putting together a simple station using M2 2 meter and 70 cm directional eggbeater antennas and the Icom ID-5100 VHF/UHF Digital Transceiver with full duplex capabilities-all available from DX Engineering.

[@deaconmile]

This is absolutely the best video for M2 Eggbeater insight

[@k6usy]

I live a few miles away from M2, always nice to know I can just drive over there and pick up an antenna.

[@stevehanlon7627]

i've been planning a base setup to get into satellites and then i found this "turn key" solution. thanks Ward, Sean, and DXE for the great information. time to start saving up for those eggbeaters.

[@cliffbills2775]

Great video...I've been wanting to try satellites for years and I think I'm going to jump in with the M2 "eggbeater" package. 73..AK9TX

[@rogerp5816]

Thanks for another great satellite video. I have one request and that would be to update the description of the video with the links to all the items used in the DX Engineering catalog. 73 and Good DX, de Roger, NK1I

[@BrentTaylor]

I've been using a setup like this (minus the preamp) since the fall of 2020 and quite like it. My M2 eggbeaters are on a separate mast, level with the roof line of my house. I have preamps that I will be installing in the spring. I'm using two separate runs of LMR400 into my FT-847. Even without the preamps I'm hearing and working North America, the Caribbean, and western Europe on FM, SSB, and CW. Eggbeaters are a compromise as opposed to beam antennas, but I am really liking the opportunity to work satellites from the comfort of my shack, instead of standing outside juggling lots of equipment in the het/cold/insects/rain/etc. Great video, de VY2HF in FN86.

[@GlobalFlyer]

Over the years, the hassle you described drove me to enjoy the comfort of having a shack :)

[@rjy8960]

I like the idea of Eggbeaters for satellite comms. Definitely a project for the summer!

[@eshskis1]

This video is gold thank you ! Was given a new satpack never used at a field day years ago, was going to sell it until today when I watched this video, although I have a dozen questions, I'm confident I will figure it out now... thank you

[@DonDegidio]

Hi Sean and Ward, Very good video showing the basics to get started with FM satellites. Stay safe. 73 WJ3U

[@stevebeaumont3141]

From Australia like the way you speak.. great work..thanks Steve

[@PapasDino]

TNX Sean & Ward - M2 Eggbeaters are a great starter AND backup - our ARISS event had a equipment failure at the very last moment and we actually were successful on the backup 2m Eggbeater (talk about pucker factor!). 73 - Dino KLØS

[@wmarin]

And what do you recommend for a permanent / advanced installation ?

[@PapasDino]

@@wmarin Well, the best scenario I think would be dedicated yagis for 2m/70cm with mast mounted preamps and cross polarization switching swung by a azimuth-elevation rotator. Egg beaters are ok but not optimal. Depends on how much real estate you have, how much you want to spend, etc. It's just like the rest of ham radio, you can spend a lot or a little...depends on your expectations. Good luck! 73 - Dino KLØS

[@victoryfirst2878]

Nicely done video Sirs. Lot of information and down to earth information that can be used by anyone.

[@rodneybaker4132]

Loved being in your video. Awesome demo. 73, Rod WK4LR.

[@AllanBProductions]

Great video! Probably best to use headphones when operating but I understand it’s for the video.

[@billvet6]

Thanks. Very informative. Guess I need to look closer at my IC-5100 manual. Just learned something new about it.

[@radiow4qa71]

Great overview!

[@Aleziss]

those LEO sats and ISS are often a real mess where everybody step onto each other, really difficult to make contact and I've been crushed many time even though I use a 13el and 21el beams with AZEL rotators... If you are able to try linear transponders, that is way more fun, many contact can be taken at the same time on the same passband... way different attitude on those sat than the FM sat in my opinion...

[@09keller]

Well done guys! Thanks

[@luismirandakunert3475]

Nice Tutorial!! Could you put on the description Preamplifier Model? Tnx 73!!!

[@oobihdahboobeeboppah]

Great video. Post a list of the items needed in the video comments. There should also be a pick list on the website to quickly add required items to the cart. IMHO.

[@anthonyvangelos978]

Thank you!

[@Ei2iP]

instead of egg beaters, went with g450 rotator, ELK log periodic at 15 degrees elevation, can work the birds, including ISS really...cheap and cheerful setup, but it works.

[@davidlwhitesidearmy]

Thx great training video / DE N9BSA

[@Aussie3rdgeneration]

Great video Thanks Are you able to let us know what model the masthead amp is please

[@williampeacock9473]

Not only is a EGGBEATER good for FM satellite they work great for 6&2 meter SSB as well. But mine is homebrew and I love it. 73 AE4OY William Peacock (EM-81UF) South East Georgia

[@TJVergerII]

Great

[@HotHammster]

Why are you using a uhf preamp when you are receiving on vhf?

[@bgonderi]

What about grounding for lightning protection? (looks like feedline was run directly into window) Would it be needed for this setup or a j-pole in a vent pipe?

[@deppedyDogg]

Thanks for your video, excellent. Do you have to use the RCA jack on the control connected to the Rig to switch off the preamp during TX?

[@brettsoanes2505]

I'd really like to know what preamp he's using

[@MichaelRandazzophotoguy]

Hi Sean, first thanks for all the help getting the right radio. I did this setup completely but today I have a question about it. I just ordered the IC-9700 on your advice but it has 3 different antenna connections. 2m 440 and 1.2G. Do I have to run another coax to the eggbeaters and remove the duplexer? For now I want a dummy load on the 1.2 g because I don't have an antenna for that. But how do I connect the eggbeaters to it? BTW they work better with my handheld then they do on my Yaesu 991A. Thus I bought the IC-9700 Icom. KO4PDI Thanks again.

[@MichaelRandazzophotoguy]

Does the 5100 have the ability to be hooked up to a computer running HRD (Ham Radio Deluxe) satellite tracking software?

[@moonjockclark9491]

Would there be anyway to run another coax from the antennas and hook up to a sdr to filter the audio on receive

[@moonjockclark9491]

Would you gain anything my using a N connector and lmr 240 or 400 on 2 meter or would that be overkill seen like there was a lot of hash on receive

[@MN-cw5se]

If i want use an icom 910H (that has separate output/inputs. For the 2mtr & 70cm) with the Satpack shown won this video. But i want use one feed line, do i need two diplexers? Or two duplexers?

[@chrisg.5577]

What about the rear connection, another duplexer? And what are all those numbers/letters after your call?

[@gravestonemyth]

Great tutorial. I’m new to satellites, using a cheap HT and an Arrow. I have lots of success, though full duplex would help. Barring another FD HT entering the market, I’ll try splitting two HT’s on two antennas. I noticed you worked AO91. I have listened several times in the last six weeks and have are absolutely nothing from AO91 or AO92. Are they active?

[@seankutzko4578]

Hi Steve! Sadly, AO91 and AO92 are both experiencing some trouble right now. For now, try SO-50, AO-27 and PO-101 for FM satellite contacts. SO50 uses a 67 Hz tone, PO101 uses a 141.3 Hz tone, and AO27 needs no CTCSS tone. You can check the operational status of satellites at the AMSAT Status Page: www.amsat.org/status/

[@gravestonemyth]

@@seankutzko4578 Thanks! I'm AO27 and SO50 daily. I will add PO101 to the mix. Too bad about ISS, AO91, and AO92 being on the fritz. Guess I'll need to gear up and go SSB to get my fix!

[@KKG51]

Hmmm, how does this work with say a IC-9700 where you have discrete antenna inputs for each band? I'm guessing g you's use 2 redlines in this case?

[@michaelgrossi3124]

Does anyone know if you can hook up the 5100 to HRD to use their satellite software?

[@jockoharpo2622]

Would the Eggbeater pick up better reception if you added a large whip? I bet you couldn't Beat that with a stick!

[@rayeckel]

How much power are you running on transmit? Thanks K5BZI

[@KN6SJQ]

Which pre-amp you using in the video?

[@viralsheddingzombie5324]

So a geosynchronous satellite will not produce the doppler effect regardless of radio location on the ground?

[@forgetyourlife]

On the 5100a All I get is feed back when I try full duplex like you did in the video..?

[@seankutzko4578]

I strongly suggest using headphones. The only reason I didn't in this video was so I could comment while recording.

[@rob1146]

How about a BOM for this antenna setup?

[@Yaegermeister163]

You have one preamp. Was it for VHF or UHF? Should you have one for each? Thanks, 73. NZ7W

[@thomasmanson1119]

Where is the power (source) connection to the pre-amp?

[@Bunsak69]

Thanks for your video, and it might sound too ridiculous to those people who know all about this, but I'm curious: who answered you from sat? are they in the actual satellites or is someone from the ground from another area that connects to the same sattellite speak with you?

[@kevind.cornwell5424]

This was another ham radio operator on the ground who responded to him through. That will usually be the case, although astronauts on the International Space Station are on there at times.

[@Bunsak69]

@@kevind.cornwell5424 Thanks indeed for your response! Appreciated it!

[@kevind.cornwell5424]

Sure thing!

[@dougtaylor7724]

Is there a radio that does move the frequency around to match the Doppler shift?

[@Michael-nd7gh]

Yes.

[@robcichon954]

Sean, how much power on uplink?

[@bambangsuhanto4707]

Have you ever tried it without using a preamplifier?

[@williambeckman6900]

It appears that the vhf and uhf are combined at the duplexor then through the uhf preamp. This is not the correct way to use the preamp, it should be between the duplexor and the uhf antenna. It will be sensing rf presence on vhf and uhf the way you have it setup. It should not pass or attenuates outside the uhf band thus degrading vhf reception. In addition passing bidirectional rf in a feedline will cause echoing unless you use a hardline that has a corrugated shape on the interior surface of the shield, although not as perceptible when the frequencies are third harmonics.

[@terrybondy5458]

If the preamp is “between the duplexor and the uhf antenna” on the high side of the duplexor, how would it get the DC it needs for power?

[@williambeckman6900]

@@terrybondy5458 dc can be delivered on a separate 2 conductor line as the most cost effective but there is a device that will mix dc with rf at the radio end and extract it near the antenna end.

[@alessandroconcas]

Yes, some preamp can't handle power through vox operation if wrong band (if run ptt on 2 meter side and preamp is before duplexer some can burn, if was after duplexer in dup and antenna works 100% ok)

[@stevendodd6477]

Receiving on 2 m and it's a 70 cm preamp, not sure that's right either

[@stevendodd6477]

" In addition passing bidirectional rf in a feedline will cause echoing unless you use a hardline that has a corrugated shape on the interior surface of the shield" - I've done a quick search and references to corrugated coax seem to be related to bend ability rather than echoing. Can you supply more information?

[@tonycampbell1178]

I thought it should be the Rx freq that you changed for doppler, not the tx frequency?.

[@seankutzko4578]

You adjust your 70cm frequency for Doppler, whether it is transmit or receive. There are sometimes minor adjustments to the 2m frequency as well.

[@Bob5mith]

In a perfect world, you'd adjust both in opposite directions, proportional to their frequencies. Tx low to high and Rx high to low. I wonder if there's a way to use a computer to automatically tune the Rx and adjust the Tx based on the Rx frequency.

[@ericlessard4406]

Sean what is the total cost for this type of setup???

[@alessiorossi8366]

Is Icom ic 7000 suitable for Satellite qsos ? 73'ssss de Iz2eid

[@dannelson8556]

There are so many problems with this installation that it's hard to know where to begin, you'd think DX engineering of all people would have done a much better job. let's start with the fact that you should never use LMR-400 for full duplex operation. LMR 400 is not rated for full duplex operation and will cause issues. It is susceptible to passive intermodulation distortion aka PIM. PIM is the result of the double shielding where you have a braid in contact with aluminum, every point in which the braid touches the aluminum becomes a diode junction, this results in popping and arcing in the feed line during transmit. granted it is very low level but it is right at the front end of your receiver which will make reception very difficult. It's easy to identify repeaters where the repeater owners have mistakenly used LMR-400 because the repeaters are plagued with popping sounds, this only becomes worse with water intrusion. times microwave does make a low PIM version of LMR-400 But it's substantially more expensive, it would be cheaper just to run two coax runs. while the M2 egg beaters are a decent off the shelf solution they are massively overpriced for what they are. You can literally build a homebrew version for probably $15 with similar or better performance. So my suggestion would be to Homebrew your antennas, that way you could afford two decent runs of coax while avoiding the lossy combiner which he calls a duplexer. never could understand why hams call combiners duplexers, that's not what a duplexer is. duplexers are used in repeater operations. I suppose this is all the result of the dumbing down of the ham tests, It's gotten so bad that even the manufacturers are now labeling combiners as duplexers so they don't confuse hams. Oh and do yourself a favor, avoid these vox preamps. They will fail. people use vox preamps because they're lazy or don't understand how a bias-t works. The problem with vox-based switching is that it is too slow, every time you key up the radio a few milliseconds of transmit power leaks through eventually this destroys the preamp. this can be somewhat mitigated with a satellite radio that has proper sequencing. For example the IC 9700 will allow you to delay RF by up to 30 milliseconds, 200 milliseconds would have been a better option for vox.

[@keith1993]

do NOT use adapters... put the correct connectors on the cables.

[@jockoharpo2622]

Ok now..what's the purpose of this?

[@johnmiller4750]

Very low voice volume at start.

[@scabey]

cool, hammers dx land >>>>>>

[@andriikolesnyk279]

Kutzko sounds like a Ukrainian surname to me. Right?

[@hwntwww]

too much hair, gents

[@antycyponek2706]

meanwhile fm receiver performance has not improved hardly at all in last 50 years.. dsp noise reduction schemes are USELESS, fm receivers are susceptible to an orgy of impulse noise, noise blanker circuits are not allowed on fm. ge had supremely effective noise blankers in fm radios over 25 years ago, and todays sdr based rigs are drifting out of the box.