Orange Drop vs SOZO in my '67 BASSMAN

DEMOS at 23:38
The previous owner of my "drip-edge" 1967 Bassman installed Orange Drops (.1uf) coupling caps.
I changed them to SOZO NexGen (reproductions of the original blue Astrons), and recorded before and after to compare.
Let me know what you think?
[Demos were done with every effort to keep the amp and microphone settings the same and only the capacitors changed - samples were triggered from a looper]
'
96 LP Studio
straight into Bassman (neutral EQ)
12" Eminence Tonker
Sure beta58
No effects or processing
0:00 -intro
0:36 -Bassman Guts
1:09 -coupling capacitor discussion
2:45 -Bassman circuit
5:57 -Orange Drop "before" demos
6:10 -discharge capacitors
6:49 -removing Orange Drops
8:31 -SOZO polarity?
9:26 -installing SOZO NexGens into Bassman
17:21 -Frankenstein Amp guts overview
17:57 -not gonna "burn them in"
18:44 -SOZO demos
18:51 -reassembling Bassman
22:42 -wrap up, SUBSCRIBE!
23:38 -Orange Drop vs SOZO demos shootout
28:51 -thanks, goodbye

[@erikr968]

"Burning in" capacitors is only relevant for old electrolytic caps. It's not relevant for new electrolytic caps, or other types of caps (like those in this video). You can hear a tiny difference between the before/after clips. However, I would guess that's more likely due to minor changes to how the knobs on the amp were set for the clips, than from the change of capacitors. If you did a similar before/after without changing anything, I'm sure there would be a slight difference too.

[@chipstips5823]

You may be correct but according to the Sozo website: "It will take up to 100 hours of break in for the capacitor to operate to its full potential. The dielectric will polarize and develop a pattern creating a clearer, full frequency sound."

[@rickschiller]

Thank you for having short side by side clips to compare; that wook some work to put this together. In the single line riffs above the 12th and especially 15th fret the thin tone of the Orange Drops are readily apparent and the Sozos sound fatter and warmer. Elsewhere the Orange Drops exhibit the same unpleasant highs but not as apparent. For about 1/8 the price of the Sozos you can use Mallory 150s and get the same result.

[@qua7771]

The Sozo's sounded more open to me, and warmer. They probably need some brake in time for the grittiness to mellow out. The OD's sounded more compressed, and less airy. Perhaps bit sterile, but not necessarily in a bad way. Just smooth. I think I prefer the character of the Sozo caps. The difference is more noticeable with gain.

[@chipstips5823]

I've definitely noticed the SOZOs are mellowing out and sounding "better" after a few weeks and some long sessions

[@qua7771]

@@chipstips5823 I will be replacing caps in one of my amps with Sozo's tomorrow, if they arrive on time.

[@qua7771]

​@@chipstips5823 I replaced every cap in mine with Sozo's after that previous comment, and definitely noticed a difference. After break in they have a sweet sound. My amp previously had polypropylene caps. To my ears they were a bit strident, and stiff sounding.

[@chipstips5823]

@@qua7771 thanks for the report! FYI, I've gone nuts and put mostly Jupiters in there, after 6months of playing it sounds really good. I probably won't mess with it again until something breaks. Here's a look at the Jupiter install: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aH2tYZevi7WqgNE

[@qua7771]

@@chipstips5823 I haven't tried Jupiter's, but my circuit is a Marshall clone. I think Jupiter's are an excellent idea for Fenders. Funny thing, I'm soldering right now. I'm on the computer waiting for things to cool a minute. I'll certainly check out the link you posted.

[@toddmayer6859]

Thanks for this video! I have a 1963 Ampeg Jet J-12-B with all orange drops. I am about to change them out for Sozo Blues. The orange drop polyesters (225p, etc) are OK. I watched a shoot out of the Sozo Blues against Mustards and while the Jupiter or Sozo Mustards have a pleasing tone, the Blues have that pleasant sheen on the high end. 1/4/24 Added note: I just ordered the Sozo blues for my Ampeg. It seems like the brown caps in your circuit are Panasonic polyester. I was actually thinking of going with them instead of Sozo or Jupiter. From what I understand, the Panasonic polyester caps are good. One amp tech who has a lot of videos on KZbin finds them to be good, and the expensive ones like Sozo and Jupiter to be snake oil. His amps sound amazing by the way ....

[@sugameltpastriescoffee7186]

You have to be methodical with the dangerous voltages, super fun at the same time deadly, take care thanks for sharing. I'm building my first tube amp and I have already taken months to learn and experiment with stuff even with years of electrical and electronics experience plus a degree in the field

[@chipstips5823]

thanks for the comment Sugamelt! I've gotten lucky a couple of times! I like the "keep one hand in your pocket" approach, safety first!

[@erikr968]

@@chipstips5823 The risks of tube amp high voltages are often highly exaggerated. They are high impedance, meaning it's a bit like getting zapped by an electric cattle fence. It stings, but that's about it. What can surely kill you though is getting zapped by the mains voltage. However, that risk applies to working with any type of mains powered device. It doesn't matter if it's tube or solid state. The "one hand in pocket" rule is still important though.

[@wesleymorris1]

Super good caps can sound hifi, they don't sound all that great in guitar amps, the sound becomes clicky and poppy, I've tried just about every kind of caps. Your power supply caps are important as well as. Coupling caps. I use Jupiter electros, and vishey for my coupling caps. And I like Jupiters for bypass caps as well. It's given me great results I've built over 20 amps and repair probably 100 amps as well as radios. That bassmans wire is top notch, I love good wiring, so many amps of the 60s and seventies are great spggetti incidents. I use all 2 watt metal oxide resistors and 10 watt power resistors. Its over kill but I've never had a amp I built fail.

[@chipstips5823]

Thanks for the comment Tonemaker! I scored with this Bassman because it's the perfect amp to learn with. So far I'm loving the Jupiters and Sozos. The generic Purple Drops and Orange Drops were fine, but not as warm as I like and not inspiring to think about XD

[@dreamingone615]

All capacitors are almost identical in sound. Only minor differences in high frequency content exists, and that is not significantly affecting what you hear or what the amp does. Buy a pedal or a speaker or some better cables before you swap capacitors that are in spec with capacitance and don't leak AC through them. Tone is in your hands not the gear. I sound like crap on all gear.

[@chipstips5823]

I'm starting to agree with you. Although I plan to try some other caps in the amp and possibly different tubes. See my speaker cabinet video for some experiments I've done with different speakers. Seeing as I've already blown the Alnico (Heppner from a Hammond) that I installed, I'm going to be doing another round of speaker shootouts. Subscribe and stay in touch! Thanks

[@qua7771]

That has not been my personal experiences at all. I notice a substantial difference in capacitor sound, especially when there are many in the signal path. I would say the difference is on par with pickup swaps. My wife can hear a bigger difference than I can. People that can't hear a difference assume that no one else can. There are reasons that people perceive sound differently that I could get into, but that's neighbor here, nor there.

[@chipstips5823]

@@qua7771 I am also learning WHAT to listen for, the differences are sometimes subtle but like you said, everyone hears things differently and what I am hoping to find is a universally AMAZING TONE that everyone just drools over. I have some vintage Sprague BumbleBees I'm going to drop in and do a SOZO vs BUMBLEBEE shootout soon. Subscribe and stay in touch! thanks

[@qua7771]

@@chipstips5823 For starters, for anyone who has been exposed to loud noises, or has aging ears, may start to loose hearing in the upper registers where there is a lot of detail. You don't necessarily need dog hearing for the frequency range of guitar, but others may notice things you may not. Your very humble in this regard, some people deny it, and assume their ears are the gold standard. They think anyone who hears what they don't must have magic super sonic hearing. We all suffer some degree of hearing loss since childhood. Secondly, there is already a lot of articulation, and detail going on in your tone that you can get lost in. Perhaps tune out of all that and listen to the warmth and clarity, vs compression. Lastly, as a player, you may be too into playing, to be distracted by the tone. I tend to play with my ears, but I don't consider myself a strong rhythm player. It takes different parts of the brain to focus on different things. Hearing is not only a mechanical thing, the sound information has to be processed. A large part of a dog's brain is dedicated to hearing. Humans, not so much. All that said, the difference between OD's and Sozo's is subtle. Some caps have a hint of sounding like the sound is coming from a tin can to my ears. In this case, the Sozo's sounded more open, and warmer in the lower mids. It's my understanding that they take time to brake in, and mellow out (~20-40hrs). Some people have pulled the power tubes, and ran a signal through the amp for a few days. I'd rather play. Thanks for the reply.

[@cernitronic]

Hello, good video. The "-" of the capacitors must be installed on the less sensitive side of the external parasites, therefore on the side of the lowest impedance, therefore on the anode side and not on the grid side.

[@chipstips5823]

Thanks for the comment! I will have to re-examine what I've done here, I did my best to follow the guidance of Uncle Doug. I'm not an expert, more of a "figuring it out as I go, you can too" type, and I always defer to the knowledge of elders and experts, thank you! I have since upgraded the SOZOs to JUPITERS and in the process discovered I had the +/- reversed, so the amp now has Jupiter Caps in the correct orientation, in line with your guidance. Subscribe and look out for more videos in my Amp Cap Quest series :)

[@cernitronic]

@@chipstips5823 I'm ok with Mr Carlson's Lab, see his vidéo "Are Your Capacitors Installed Backwards? Build this and find out" !

[@Xsheaffer]

Guitar applications don't necessarily demand a great capacitor. The guitar application seems to prefer color over accuracy. The higher spec audio capacitors tend to be more literal and don't necessarily make a better sounding guitar amp. Avoid ferromagnetic leads and you'll avoid the glare that so many commercial amps have. Jupiter makes fantastic products, they are the real deal.

[@zander1323]

The Sozo's sound seem to sound "clearer" or brighter at 7+ volume. Otherwise no difference. Of course, if you take KZbin compression into account, it may be that there's more of a difference, but I would echo @DreamingOne 's sentiments - difference is in high frequencies. If you're really looking to change your sound, the act of changing the speakers is going to make the biggest difference - far more so than any other individual component in the signal chain. And in the discharge capacitors section, you've got the sepia-toned video of the orange drops but my eye caught that you are showing a discharge on the plugged in amp after you've already changed to the blue Sozos... Presumably you were trying to discharge after testing so the chassis would be safer? Is the death cap out of the circuit? It appears to still be in the chassis.

[@chipstips5823]

You are correct, I added that clip of me dangerously working inside the amp while it was still plugged in - after I had swapped to the Sozos and before I reassambled it, I was cautious of handling the chassis with both hands so I was discharging a little extra there, good thing too, because I wouldn't have noticed it was still plugged in! I'm no Uncle Doug, I'm a noob, and this kind of learning experience is what I'm here for! Yes, the death cap is still installed. Skip Simmons didn't recommend taking it out, I guess in most cases it's totally safe, but I am considering removing it and rewiring the fuse etc. in the safe way.

[@zander1323]

@@chipstips5823 You did a fine job in the video. Great presentation. 🤘😎

[@M5guitar1]

The Sozos seems slightly less compressed, slighty more dynamic, more toppy

[@ernestschultz5065]

NOS oil and paper caps can have dried out.

[@wesleymorris1]

It takes about 2 months to break caps, once broken in most caps even cheaper one sound better. Don't fall for the hype,a good self healing 630v poly or metal film cap is better then paper and oil. And those old blue ones fender used are horrible in there always out of spec from my experience. Those sozos are good caps they take a long time to break in. Once they do they sound great. Don't count on the sound u get right away, they will get better, once there broke in.

[@chipstips5823]

After 20+ hours of playing I am super happy with the Jupiters and Sozos, I think this amp will sound great for 10 years before I "get to" mess around in there again XD

[@dparham]

@@chipstips5823 Im building a Deluxe Reverb with Jupiter caps but that elustrous .047 600v caps are expensive! wondering why! I have all Jupiter vintage yellows and /(F&T doghouse) but need .047. to complete the package . I dont want to use orange drops but I have the set handy ... the Jupiter copper foils are 38 bucks each its pricey! oh and shipping lol