Orcane Is The Devil (To The Devs)

[@MrPickleEdits]

Hey did you know that thanks to the increased ASDI multiplier and faster parry, players can CC bubbles and parry in-between the hits which means people can put orcane in parry stun by using a 1 frame, fully actionable, 0 risk options. Hell you dont even have to crouch before. You can just tank a bubble and asdi down the next ones and parry. My trap character is now weaker when my opponent is standing on my trap. Let that sink in. My TRAP character is now WEAKER when my opponent is standing on my TRAP. Before you ask me what i would buff to compensate. Roll back the damn patch note (Besides the FAir disjoint & projectile break nerf which is valid) They made my cool trap character a worse version of ranno since he should literally avoid using his fucking traps. Also they hit his conversion/combo game which is completely opposite to what they were trying to do. Orcane was not a camping character, if someone could be completely zoned out by a single, super linear projectile that does stuns orcane on parry (parry was buffed btw) and a bunch of non-disjointed buttons they are experiencing a skill issue and whining about the character instead of learning the mu. Orcane was a scrapping character like ranno/zetter that could make up for having weaker scrapping tools with a trap to control stage, imagine puddle as simply another orcane that cant move. Orcane was NOT a zoner or a camper at any semi-high level. Shit orcane changes, roll them back.

[@666blaziken]

That sounds like a bug. It shouldn't be happening because in the patch notes they stated they made it so if you are being constantly hit with projectiles you can't activate parry on frame 3. The only projectiles fast enough to hit you that quickly are rannos and orcane's, so it's odd that one of the 2 characters they targeted for that change doesn't have that applied, but I'll test it out. Thank you for experimenting with this.

[@ImightbedownBad]

Orcane 2024 - 2024 🕊

[@Victinitotodilepro]

2015-2024*

[@Anebriate]

​@Victinitotodilepro he's not viable in RoA1 either

[@Victinitotodilepro]

@@Anebriate but thats when he was born, also yes he is viable, all characters are

[@thisistherun4015]

Not being able to use Bair consistently on grounded opponents left me dependent on Ftilts and Dtilts, and I felt that there wasn't a similar, CC-safe, shield-safe alternative from shorthops except for risking a grab or trying to risk setting up puddles. I think that's something that would benefit me the most. I can also see them adjusting the recovery more overtime based on how Orcane players do, I would personally like the D Special stall back but we'll see. The game is early and I am not getting too attached to what he had early or what his weaknesses are for now.

[@tempesttries]

So I play Orcane, and the fact that they wanted to make his play more interactive but in the end they made him more campy is truly amazing and I can confirm that Trevor (lead balance director) doesn't actually know how to balance a game. With these changes thanks to Orcane keeping his good air and ground speed it's actually optimal now to play him with a hit and run style of play which is like the opposite intended effect of what they wanted to do. It's so lame when you balance a character around how good their potential is rather than tournament representation if you look at most tournaments Orcane is like the least played character ever and has only 1 top player using him which is Marlon and Marlon doesnt even use orcane half the time. I genuinely have no idea what they were thinking as while yes I do believe having overly strong defensive play is boring and lame, it's equally boring and lame to disallow that playstyle to work. LIKE why nerf defensive play if you were just gonna add shields and ledges to rivals might as well remove shields ledges and grabs if you truly want to make defensive play less viable. The compensation buff I would have done is maybe just slightly increase the size of his back air hit box sweet spot like at least make it visually clear cause its actually smaller than the tail model in game so when you think you hit the back air its either just a coughing baby or it whiffs cause its so small. Then idk make his upthrow spawn more bubbles to make it more consistent and to buff his weak ass kill game buff forward throws' KB growth.

[@ianmcclary7618]

As someone who has fought Orcane, hit & run orcane is much more fun and interactive to fight than bubble Orcane. The changes were good.

[@WickedK12]

Bubble burst and up-tilt nerfs were understandable, the rest was overkill

[@BirbIrl]

buff back air to be more consistent (good luck devs), make upspecial a little faster on the end lag so that placing it on the other side of the stage isn't always 100% punishable on smaller stages even if the enemy is a mile away and we're good i'd say maybe also reverse ftilt nerf That'd be it if i were to redo the patch Anyways good video mr youtuber (except the part where lox's recovery is not in the same as fors)

[@lol1013]

ngl, I was expecting you to talk about design of orcane and how's it's pain in the ass to balance, because design is polarizing

[@willdangerfield50468]

Orcane would already have been made worse by the party changes. Doing down b to make the wall would now be easily parried so trying to wall with constant bubbles would get you obliterated because his down b when parried is a stun not a reflect. I agree that some of these changes were warranted but only if he got compensated like the rest

[@mortaljason]

He was my favorite character and now I don't wanna play Rivals 2, but I've put too many hours in to have a steam refund. Tragic.

[@ali_kaka_sheikh]

Peak yap vids🙏

[@toomanystarsbms]

mb idk why my mic was a lil staticky

[@Hpyktxd]

I'd make Back Air more consistent, and give it a (slight) knockback reduction to balance it out. Make Down Air a better tool in neutral so he has something to deal with CC. Probably by adding a couple frames of hitstun and making it slightly faster, enough to confirm into all his tilts at any percent. Letting Orcane decide whether Down B stalls in the air by holding shield would be nice. Change the angle Down throw sends at to be better at setting up techchases. Not drastically, we don't need another Ranno.

[@Pazuzu729]

Crazy thing is, i would fairly consistently punish side b's to ledge pre-patch, but now i don't even have to time it

[@memeformer]

been waiting for this since yesterday

[@jakezepeda1267]

I always thought Clairen and Ranno were more frustrating to fight as well as the way some people play Fleet.

[@cyberjeeb]

The air stall is the biggest nerf. I only thought it was degen cause you could never hit his fair even if you read it with non disjoints but man they just removed that whole recovery flowchart

[@TributeClub-kd1dn]

Lies Orcane is the angel You are the devil Orcane doesn’t deserve the nerfs

[@tylerbader2531]

I would give orcane a full screen fair the covers the whole stage in bubbles

[@Dadzie498]

Song name?

[@dave9515]

Aria of the Soul. Its the Persona 5 velvet room track if curious where it comes from.

[@rishiavocado]

Needed to see that pre patch fleet video it would have been peak

[@ParaOnYTz]

kinda looks like toothless from how to train ur dragon

[@toomanystarsbms]

@@ParaOnYTz ily para 💀

[@ParaOnYTz]

@@toomanystarsbms

[@RedBlueProductions1]

idk, it seems like dan took zoners as one of the "lessons learned" from rivals 1. it's very unfortunate

[@galaxy3832]

Nah his recovery nerfs are justified but too much all at once, Orcane had so many stalls to make hitting him at ledge somewhat difficult, if you barely miss time it Orcane can probably getup attack for free(it used to be almost fully invincible) and he could also fair so far above that he's out of range for everyone besides maybe Ranno (and Fleet but trying to hit with upsmash is practically giving free stage control) not to mention he can b reverse that momentum and/or drop a puddle and cover his landing with the bubbles (this was when all bubbles spawned in random spots making it harder to parry. He's got even more mixups off of I high fair I won't go into. Also on an unrelated note Fleet's recovery definitely got nerfed: the air acceleration nerf makes her turn super slow making it infinitely harder to bait out dumb options for easy stage control on the recovery and then there's the no longer get float at ledge nerf which now makes it so if you hit her at ledge or ledge jump she no longer has float to make it back which doesn't sound that big but her no float recovery is literally bottom 3 recovery in the game and without float she can't just jump to ledge she has to commit to a down b to ledge or an up b angle. Down b is slow and has a very obvious spacing and if someone's on ledge her up b just sucks bc if she aims over ledge you can get a free combo or knock her back off stage. Or she aims at ledge and dies. Also there's the universal change that makes air dodges not give ledge invincibility which prepatch without float that was her fastest way of getting back and more importantly getting float bc that makes it so much easier to recover plus gives her access to her float on tornado mixups (Ngl I don't get wym when you leave Ranno and Orcane out of the hard to punish recoveries and Lox out of free recoveries to punish) I'm not here to hate I just genuinely don't understand Also an unrelated unrelated note I don't understand why Orcane and Fleet got nerfed this much in they same patch you'd think they wouldn't do this much when they specifically said they didn't want to nerf things based on the meta. There was 1 compensation buff out of both these characters combined and it's hardly anything bc it's Fleet side b being out for 15 more frames which is also 15 more frames against her if the opponent parries (Also despite that compensation buff the nerfs on Fleet's side b are way worse than the buffs: you can't really combo out of it's 1st hit at all any more if the opponent DIs the right way and it's, they made the move take even longer and 5 frames not counting the buff to parry extra to input parry, it was already very parryable on reaction. Idk what's up with this it feels like the devs specifically have beef with this move bc why did it need to be nerfed. Now it's only consistently good as a recovery mixup(they nerfed it multiple ways as a recovery mixup too)) This patch is killing me they nerfed my Main and Pocket to the ground

[@ziggyhfx8202]

The orcane arcade mode is a fucking nightmare rn. Idk if I'm dog shit but it took me a full hour on hard mode

[@NvrLucky43]

orcane down b is now as useless as sheiks in melee we gonna end up playing orcane like a jigglypuff with bair and pool rest he needs a rework tbh

[@demovak1737]

I’m a shaker

[@Wolfie15]

Unrelated but the music is almost as loud as you and it drowns you out

[@toomanystarsbms]

This comment will never escape me 😭

[@NX_TEK.2]

"lets talk about the patch" "i think alot of the THINGS were warranted" "we'll get into all that later" "but lets talk about it" bro, to someone outside of the game's space, you just spouted a bunch of nothing and bounced around words like an excited kid without a clear goal for a solid minute, there's no true focus on the topic until you put text on screen... by that point you've lost me

[@NX_TEK.2]

ik that's how people be and that this is probably unscripted thoughts, but i just couldnt bro :|

[@toomanystarsbms]

I understand that heavy, although I do try to make these to start discussion, At the end of the day, I am definitely just yapping but thats purposeful. These are all one take

[@666blaziken]

1. I like the recovery nerfs, they just need to happen to more of the cast. Like kragg and clairen can still grab ledge with side special immediately l, they should have to wait 10 frames like orcane does so it's easier to edgeguard them 2. For those looking for recovery mixups, I think you guys should experiment with orcane's orca jump (which I think you can do with a certain input even if there's a puddle on the ground) Unlike his side b, his up b doesn't have to wait 10 frames, if you use side special to wall jump to up special to sweet spot ledge and mix it up with up special on the ground, orcane's recovery can still be good.

[@rytre]

Make a script brother

[@toomanystarsbms]

Yapping is an art

[@fey_png]

Nah keep it unfiltered

[@TheRealGrimPrime]

Bro he don’t need buffs he was already too good

[@dave9515]

Was considered the worst character in the game. How was he too good?

[@TheRealGrimPrime]

@@dave9515 his combo game was crazy

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

​@@dave9515 no he wasn't