Orchestration Lesson: Bartok, Part 2

[@JJBerthume]

Love these videos!

[@DJKLProductions]

Nice to see you here!

[@TheChemistryShack]

You guys should do a collab video

[@PiEndsWith0]

Thanks for looking into Bartok in this depth... he was always something of an opaque composer for me

[@erickparris7767]

😮😮y😮😮77

[@timothybrittain4161]

Thank you so much, Thomas. Bartók's endless genius is so often overlooked and you've brought out some of my favorite aspects of his creativity and absolute mastery of orchestration. Back in college (late '70s), when I asked my (avant garde) theory professor what he thought of the Concerto for Orchestra he just said: "Nice piece of orchestration." I was dumbfounded, but knew what he meant. Yet he seemed unable to grasp the depth of the piece and its amazing originality. It's truly profound and challenging while still being enjoyable to listen to. I started to play this for an acquaintance once and he asked, seriously, "So, does he just write down any note?" Oy!

[@slubert]

376 views now and only 36 likes :/ well you are doing allot of us... even us enthusiasts minus music education a great service.. thank you so much.. hope to see more analysis of works from the 20th century.. Mother goose by Ravel would be Wonderful for instance.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Hey mate, likes don't fuss me. Most people who like something don't think to hit the like button, and yet thousands come back for more so I'm not worried. But thanks so much for sticking up for these videos! :-) I'll teach two months of Ravel before I go back to Lili B, and maybe more a few months later. Interestingly, all of these lessons so far have been 20th century - I wasn't thinking about that, actually, but come to think of it... Hard to go wrong in those first 2-3 decades. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll add it to the list!

[@an8ropos2]

Great work why don't you make an analysisi on the rite of spring ?

[@johnappleseed8369]

GREAT video, like usual :) Bless you Thomas

[@EverydayBassdotcom]

I'm enjoying your channel. Thanks!!

[@luisfeliperey]

Thanks for another great lesson Thomas

[@sebastianzaczek]

5:49 Does "Slurring Pizzicato" mean that you pluck the string only for the first note and then you finger the second note while the string is still vibrating, but without replucking it?

[@macleadg]

DerSibbe Yes. An unusual technique.

[@jackminto7062]

yep

[@jaygbardo8781]

Marvelous...these are wonderful.

[@KrystofDreamJourney]

Great analysis, as ALWAYS ! thanks so much for this incredibled insight. Concerto For Orchestra is a "must-study" for any serious orchestration/composition/film scoring aspiring composer. And you gave here such plethora of priceless information of how to look deeply into the score. It's ALL about the details :-)

[@janpaulwolff9310]

very informative, thanks!

[@DHedwig]

Fantastic! Very helpful!

[@stevemsteven6103]

I personally don't like Bartok, or any dissonant music in general, but after watching both videos, Bartok seems a lot more interesting than I thought. Thanks!

[@OrchestrationOnline]

He does grow on one in a sneaky way.

[@sebastianzaczek]

Stevemsteven His "Sonatina" is i think one of his most "consonant" works, but the Sonata and "Out doors" are quite fun pieces to play too...

[@macleadg]

All music includes dissonance at some level.

[@Szymanski-Composer]

Good job!

[@djrbfmbfm-woa]

again thomas, thx. j.

[@sashakindel3600]

I find it odd that at the moment when the first two trumpets dovetail with the third, the first trumpet has an eighth note and the second trumpet has a quarter. Do you think it makes an audible difference to have a rapid transition from three trumpets in unison to two to one, rather than having matching durations in the first two trumpets?

[@OrchestrationOnline]

I think that question is answered in performance. The audio I'm using is from a really good conservatory orchestra - but top pros will make this dovetail feel so natural that you wouldn't even notice had I not pointed it out.

[@sashakindel3600]

It's not that it sounds at all unnatural to me in this recording, but that I'm wondering if the mismatched durations in the first and second trumpets help it sound more natural than it would otherwise. I'd have thought it would work fine either way, but I wouldn't be surprised if the second player would automatically adjust to match the first player's length unless they thought to compare their parts and saw that the notation didn't match; writing it this way would seem to require an extra level of attentiveness in order to reflect in performance. It's one of those very small, perhaps unimportant details that nonetheless makes me wonder what the composer was thinking because it seems inexplicable to me.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

A couple of pro trumpet players will diminish their parts carefully approaching that note, and then scoop the release into each other's sustain so you won't notice the changeover at all. That's the explanation. The first trumpet player has the most control, so he gets the shortest value. It all works out.

[@tesahe4035]

Hello! A question: can one use an alto clef for horn? I've seen some composers doing this.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

No. You should always score treble clef transposing up a 5th from the original sounds. My guess is that you may have seen alto clef used in C scores, where all the parts are written concert pitch. There are also some Baroque scores where different clefs are used freely for different instruments. Or perhaps you've mistaken a trombone part for a horn part.

[@Kris9kris]

I've seen some Prokofiev scores with this configuration since he wrote everything in C - but don't do it, it is a hassle if you actually want your music to be performed with a live orchestra... If you don't want to learn to transpose by ear, use a piano or a keyboard for reference, or if you don't want to do that either, there are some tools in Finale and Sibelius to show everything in concert pitch. I don't use them since it is a hazard how Finale recognizes enharmonics if you let the program automatically transpose it back...

[@juanalbertocobosrodriguez4875]

HELLO, SOMEONE WHO CAN SUBTITLE IT, BY MY RESOURCES I DO NOT KNOW ENGLISH ... PLEASE.

[@AndewMole]

questionable horn intonation ahaha

[@BettyTrobisch]

Choral please - think church hymn not horses!

[@OrchestrationOnline]

"Chorale" has the accent on the second syllable, and defines a harmonised melody.