Origins of the Jinn in the Qur'an W/ Dr. David Penchansky

This is a clip about the origins and history of the Jinn in the Qur'an, particularly as they appear in Surah al-Jinn (72). Dr. David Penchansky makes the case against harmonizing the account of the Jinn in chapter 72 with the rest of the material in the Qur'an. Rather, he advocates for an approach that notes and embraces differences in rival accounts of the Jinn. This clip from a longer discussion with Professor Emeritus David Penchansky. Please be sure to check out the full interview, here: • David Penchansky: Stud...

[@khalidyoussef4117]

Similarity between some Quraanic stories and that in the Bible or Torah is the norm and should be celebrated and taken as confirmation of the Quraan rather than discrediting the whole text. If the occasional similarity is taken as an evidence of the Quraan being somehow copied partially or in full from previous text, then the same argument could be used for the Bible. On the other hand, how can the numerous disagreements between the Quraan and the Bible or the Torah for this matter can be recocilled.

[@Literasiwatch]

Some Jinns are friends of muhammad, even when muhammad doing shalat prayer they're accompanied him

[@whootoo1117]

Islam dealt with these sorts of beings in a very clear way in terms of essence, duties and beliefs of them. It is more stronger than both christian and jewish traditions. David's position is a projection on the text not any strong relationship between this type of Jinn and angels or what is in the bible he associated with the quranic verses. But there is little relationship and its about the theme of the stories. In islam, jinn and angels as mentioned, they are 2 types of existence although both are spirits. One of them, angels have no freewill and jinn has freewill, communities and so on. So, there is a difference and as always for many christian academics, its about getting suppport from quran not the other way around. Good luck!

[@user-kj8yl6sn2z]

I agree with you, I believe that hosting people who do not know the interpretation of the Qur’an or an understanding of the science of hadith will fall into disasters from many and big mistakes, and this is harmful to the reputation of the channel, especially if it is academic and hosts professors who criticize without proper knowledge and understanding. Therefore, I do not think that listening to them is good, especially for those who do not understand Arabic and understand the Quranic texts and hadiths as a mother tongue. There are a good number of Americans who have studied Islam in prestigious Islamic universities such as the Islamic University of Madinah or the Imam Muhammad bin Saud Islamic University, and these are the ones who will provide a consistent and clear explanation if they specialize in the science of hadith with the interpretation of the Qur’an

[@raularnela3654]

By “Islam” you mean interpretations that developed way later by Muslim scholars. Which you would agree can make mistakes since they are human. Why is it totally off the table to examine how the Quran is borrowing prior traditions? This sheds a lot of light on what many passages actually mean that classical Muslim scholars were unaware of. In many cases, you need prior Christian and Jewish tradition to illuminate ayat that don’t spell out what it means but expects the reader to already have a familiarity with a story or idea. If Muslim scholars centuries later than the Quran were unaware of the tradition the Quran is borrowing from, then their tafsir is ignorant and almost useless. They are just coming up with the best idea they can come up with, and there’s a reason Islamic tafsirs so commonly disagree with one another.

[@dorarie3167]

There is no verifiable evidence of jinn actually existing. Belief in something doesn’t make it true.

[@strongwater7814]

Salam, Respected Brother Dr. David Penchansky. At 12:13 you state that "The Jinn are kind of an embarrassment to islam". That is false. Did Allay Tayala reveal in the Qur'an Ajim that Allah tayala is embarrassed about the Jinns? Please do not make a statement that you cannot prove.

[@dorarie3167]

There is no verifiable evidence of jinn actually existing. Belief in something doesn’t make it true.

[@hans471]

A short google search reveals the origins of djinns in pagan preislamic religions. Wouldn't a "straightforward" 🙄approach require to discuss such connections? See e.g.: "Belief in jinn in the pre-Islamic Arab religion is testified not only by the Quran, but also by pre-Islamic literature in the seventh century.[17]: 54  Some scholars of the Middle East hold that they originated as malevolent spirits residing in deserts and unclean places, who often took the forms of animals;[16](p 1-10) others hold that they were originally pagan nature deities who gradually became marginalized as other deities took greater importance.[16](pp 1-10) Since the term jinn seems to be not of Arabic, but of Aramaic origin, denoting demonized pagan deities, the jinn probably entered Arabian belief in the late pre-Islamic period.[17]: 54  Still, jinn had been worshipped by many Arabs during the Pre-Islamic period "

[@arabianknight0000]

The jinn were created before mankind and their existence was taught to Adam, so of course people believed in them from the beginning of mankind.

[@raularnela3654]

@@arabianknight0000looool come on bro. Let it go.

[@broken7816]

The problem is these 7th century literature pieces, are only attempts to explain jinn from Quran, not their origin.

[@dorarie3167]

There is no verifiable evidence of jinn actually existing. Belief in something doesn’t make it true.

[@jmyd83]

Who is the Dragon

[@mrtransmogrify]

For all you know, Jinn could be an umbrella label... to refer to a plethora / 'races' of unseen beings that are non-angels... more like we use the term mammals... just a thought...

[@disobeyer6219]

It is clear from the quran that Jinnkind is made from smokeless fire.

[@user-kj8yl6sn2z]

The jinn is a known race, its characteristics, types, food, and capabilities, and it is found in the texts of the Qur’an and Hadith. But the guest must be distinguished in order to explain this in deep detail, and this will only happen with scholars in the hadith of the Prophet, who are the Salafis

[@dorarie3167]

There is no verifiable evidence of jinn actually existing. Belief in something doesn’t make it true.

[@pebystroll]

​@@user-kj8yl6sn2z the jinn is not a known race

[@shakibahsan6384]

so that people don’t misunderstand the context of this discussion on djinn. these are christian scholars who are giving their interpretation of quranic texts. pay caution in their analysis when it comes to the matters of faith.

[@arusirham3761]

They are not "christian scholars"

[@raularnela3654]

Muslims should learn the concept of prior tradition providing context to the Quran which is largely borrowing from prior traditions and assuming the hearer is familiar with such traditions. Classical Muslim scholars were largely unfamiliar with the prior traditions, but it is these traditions that will illuminate quranic passages the most. You already believe the Quran didn’t bring new stories but came to “confirm” what came before, so if that’s the case, and your fallible classical scholars were unfamiliar with the prior traditions, and the Quran presupposes that you’re familiar with the prior traditions, then Muslims would do well to familiarize yourselves with them.

[@raularnela3654]

@@mosaabtwice3999 your very thoughtful response shows your familiarity with the context. When you really study the matter, the connections between the stories in the Quran and apocryphal traditions becomes undeniable.

[@dorarie3167]

There is no verifiable evidence of jinn actually existing. Belief in something doesn’t make it true.

[@saidhashi2856]

When Quran verses are explaineand away; its place assumptions, innuendos and conjecture reigns ....it borders on absurdity.

[@rizwanshaukat5654]

I don't know how these people are on KZbin with no common sense and are being called quran scholar while they pay no attention to the quranic text. Quran is guidance for mankind not for a superficial jinn idea we have been taught so in chapter 72 jinn come to listen to quran so jinn are human not a superficial being period

[@disobeyer6219]

well you also know that iblees is a jinn from quran. so are you saying iblees is a human? and allah also says that jinnkind is made from a smokeless fire. Are any of the humans you know made from smokeless fire? If you reject parts of quran, you become kafir.

[@faraazhoeseni9273]

Finally some one who thinks😀🫡

[@dorarie3167]

There is no verifiable evidence of jinn actually existing. Belief in something doesn’t make it true.

[@user-lf5qh3kn9b]

this is not a theology channel, this is a history channel.

[@sereneibrahim2596]

“Jinn are an embarrassment to Islam…” Totally agree with this

[@disobeyer6219]

You are an embarrassment to Islam.

[@user-kj8yl6sn2z]

And what is embarrassing until I understand what you want to communicate, even though the guest and host do not represent our opinion or what we believe in

[@arusirham3761]

Pure gold

[@arabianknight0000]

You only embarrass yourself with your ignorance

[@KS-vs4ke]

Why explain

[@ahmedvanya8840]

Please. Watch the whole interview with David Penchansky and read the book : Solomon and the Ants for more interesting information.

[@fadiljelin7297]

What a biased statement-“ The tales of the Jews and Christians became Quran”. I can tell you actually haven’t read Quran (that is at least not without hostile prejudice and culturally biased lens, so you can see Quran for what it really is). Quran is not a narrative text and it doesn’t narrate these stories, it is a polemical text which alludes to the stories (parts of them here and there, clearly relying on the fact that its audiences are familiar with these stories) in order to make a polemical point. Of course, Quran’s audience were 7th Century Christians and Jews. If quran was addressing us as its audience it would probably be alluding to Hollywood movies, Donald Trump and Elon Musk in order to make its polemical point (this interview shows how that polemical point is how Quran takes power away from the Jinn-reducing them from their prior status of almost gods- Elohim in the Bible). Go back and actually read Quran. Reading is fundamental!

[@fadiljelin7297]

You read my comment- and you totally miss my point. You most likely have a learning disability. i am an educator by profession and can recognize that. I advise you to seek professional help because it will save you money and suffering down the road, especially today when the job market is so competitive and lifelong learning is a job requirement for everyone. Especially good reading skills. Good reading skills means understanding the main point what you’ve read, it is not mere literacy. From your replies as a trained educator I can tell you are functionally illiterate, even though you are a literate person. I advise you to get your reading skills assessed professionally. Good luck. I wish you all the best!

[@andanandan6061]

​@dadrew TV similar ?? pagan, Christian and Jewish from 7th Century Arabia would disagree with you

[@rigby3620]

@dadrew TV bad comment. jesus not being crucified? there's DRT and there's the Shia view. Or there's another view in scholarship where the Romans crucified him, not the Jews. These "writings" have previous sources, they may not have started with gnostic Christians, could've started with an Ebionite where the gnostics used the tale from. calm down dfam.

[@rigby3620]

​@dadrew TV " I believe nothing of Quran hystoricity and historicity of the Hijaz 7th century." you're literally a cross licker Christian. why are you so critical on Islam but not on your own religion? scholars say that the gospels use pagan tales such as Homer and Odyessus, and Acts uses Josephus. i suggest you be quiet and be consistent with your methodology.

[@mohamedahmedhammoud9614]

Salam dear colleagues. Kindly note that your appeal to "commentaries" should be virtue of proper investigative scholarship, should offer accurate citations of the source implied. Second, the "jinn" never had access to the 'heaven' of post Day of Reckoning as in Islamic eschatology and theology. Please be made aware that the 'heave' of Adam and Eve and their encounter with Satan prior to his rebellious act of non prostration to Adam as Ordered by Allah was NOT the eternal heaven. Third, the Jinn never had seats of hearing in the heavenly realm. Rather the Quranic verses designate the realms between the seven skies or sama' as in the Arabic terminology. Indeed, following the Prophetic coronation and proclamation of the Messengerhood of Muhammad (s), they were thereafter forbidden to 'eves drop' on the vertical celestial pathways where Angel's would ascend/descend ie "tannazzal al mala'ika". Finally, I invite my learned colleagues to discover the transcendental treasured unlocked in the renowned Islamic Quranic commentary by the modern scholar Sayyid Muhammad Husain al Tabataba'i, the Muslim Shi'ite scholar from Iran titled: "Al Mizan fi Tafsir al Quran". An objective and capable scholar or student of Islam should include the rich corpus of the Ja'fari Imami school of Islam , which offers a rich and qualified source that unravels the nuances dealing with the Jinn, celestial realms and other metaphysical truths of a higher understanding of Islamic spirituality.

[@raularnela3654]

Prior religious traditions that parallel what we see in the Quran is a better source for context than Muslim interpretations that developed centuries after the Quran.

[@dorarie3167]

There is no verifiable evidence of jinn actually existing. Belief in something doesn’t make it true.

[@user-kj8yl6sn2z]

Such topics are best for you to host the Salafi sheikhs, because they are the most knowledgeable Muslims in the science of the Prophet’s hadith, and it is full of many detailed Islamic teachings. And the science of hadith is an interpretation of the Qur’an and it is rich in a lot of information like the world of the jinn. One time when I wanted to sleep, one of the jinn spoke to me in my ear and disturbed me, but I recited Surat Al-Baqarah directly, and then he escaped from disturbing me. (The reason why I read Surat Al-Baqarah is because the jinn flee from hearing it because it is powerful and it is from the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh from the texts of the hadith of the Prophet, and this is what I noticed in my own experience) The world of the jinn is great. For those who want to benefit more, I advise you to watch the lessons of Sheikh Khaled Al-Habashi, which are three hours that talk about magic, the world of the jinn, the evil eye, etc.. As well as the lectures and lessons of Sheikh Muhammad Tim Hempel in the jinn

[@user-gf1rx9rz8v]

The salafis are the most extreme. The kill other Muslims just for being a different sect. They blow up mosques and churches and destroy historical sites and ornaments. Who the hell in their right mind would ask a salami.

[@deadcaliph6414]

Muslims seem to experience Jinns and other visions more often than people of other religions do or of no religion at all, because they keep entertaining these thoughts. The more you entertain them (reciting Surat Al-Baqara in an attempt to ward of those hallucinations), the more often they happen. You live by strict rules so you feel more guilty of your passing thoughts that you don't want to believe to be your own personal frustrations, so you blame it on a devil. You said it yourself, you were trying to sleep that time, sometimes you dream while you are not fully asleep. I experienced auditory hallucinations a few times in my life, sometimes unable to get out of bed, this is called sleep paralysis because parts of your brain remain asleep. I sometimes experience brief nightmarish thoughts before finally sleeping, it's your brain letting off steam now that it has nothing else to do, or once again, pent up frustration, these are called 'conditioned arousal'. Sometimes two people can both see the same odd thing, such as an moving orb of light, and can learn that they experienced an optical illusion or a mirage, one that involves light refractions especially when it comes from a room with a window where light, whether from the sun to the streetcar could enter. Another phenomenon is something called shared psychosis, or hysteria, where one's suggestion of seeing or hearing something makes others see the same thing. The reason why the evil thoughts seem to go away after you prayed was because you already think of this prayer as a coping mechanism, its your thoughts fighting against itself. Had you not thought of that sura as a coping mechanism, then it would not have helped against that voice you where hearing.

[@user-kj8yl6sn2z]

@@deadcaliph6414 You are diagnosing me psychologically and you do not know me and this is foolishness! Rather, you are diagnosing a quarter of the world's population for a deficient psychological view that does not know beyond the natural, and they are the demons of the jinn Search on KZbin and you will find atheists who do not believe in jinn at all and who converted to Islam because they were exposed to situations from jinn that they were not ready for and did not believe in. If you do not believe the existence of the jinn, you should go to the sorcerers and fortune-tellers, and they will tell you things about yourself that only you know, then go to a psychiatrist and tell him what happened to you with the sorcerers, and he will tell you that you are mentally ill. Enjoy your life, the psychiatrist knows nothing more than the patients who come to him in his clinic and the psychiatric books he reads What happened to me with the jinn, I was not prepared for them, but rather it happened suddenly and it was bothering me by talking in my ear and I dealt with it as I believe it is the cure by keeping it away from harming me.

[@Morenzoon]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@KS-vs4ke]

Please stick the message of the Qur’an about jin and anything else or any subject. Please refrain from spreading nonsense like reading bakara to chase jins..

[@DC-wp6oj]

Strange why the interpretation is made through the lens of the bible. If there’s something similar in the bible its copied and if its not - its made up. Thats what I took from this.

[@raularnela3654]

Well it’s undeniable that time and time again, the stories in the Quran are best understood through the lens of prior tradition, which isn’t just the Bible but later apocryphal Christian and jewish traditions. The Quran presupposes the hearer’s familiarity with the prior religious traditions, and therefore frequently doesn’t provide much context or explanation. It doesn’t provide the context because it expected the people of that time to already know what it’s talking about. It’s like if today I mention 9/11 or Jan. 6th, you already know what I’m talking about, so I don’t need to explain further.

[@faraazhoeseni9273]

Just like the the jinns are often human beings in quran, so are the naml also human beings... the naml are a nation or a group of people.

[@toomanymarys7355]

Ants are ants. Jinn are jinn.

[@faraazhoeseni9273]

​@@toomanymarys7355 look at the context. Even the 'bird' that Jesus as made from dust is a human being. Also the birds of Ibrahim as are human beings. Etc. Etc. Read the context. And think about it. And remember, the Quran is a guidance for mankind! Salaam brother

[@dorarie3167]

There is no verifiable evidence of jinn actually existing. Belief in something doesn’t make it true.

[@arabianknight0000]

There was no war in heaven. You have totally misunderstood the Islamic conception of the jinn have formed a wrong opinion about the Islamic belief of the jinn

[@user-kj8yl6sn2z]

It is true, and this is the problem of some academics hosting academics from Western universities who do not have a strong foundation in the science of hadith and the interpretation and interpretation of the Qur’an as Muslims have been studying it for centuries.

[@raularnela3654]

The problem is that Islamic studies completely lack any adequate study of prior religious tradition which sheds light on and provides context for so many passages in the Quran. The other problem is Muslims don’t seem to realize that it’s not that the western academics don’t understand the Islamic conception of jinn, etc. They’ve read and understand the tafsir more than you have. What they are demonstrating though is that the Islamic tafsir is erroneous and ignorant, and they demonstrate by much more compelling evidences what the real meaning is. It’s undeniable for anyone who actually studies the prior traditions that the Quran is definitely borrowing from such traditions. The parallels are so clear. Merely studying Islamic sciences and interpretation will never give people the full picture, because the Islamic sciences themselves are inadequate.

[@arabianknight0000]

@@raularnela3654 stop embarrassing yourself

[@raularnela3654]

@@arabianknight0000 prove me wrong then. It’s clear you haven’t studied the connections. They are obvious even if you spend just a little time looking into it.

[@arabianknight0000]

@@raularnela3654 prove you're right, and stop embarrassing yourself with stupid false statements

[@aisf9741]

If you wants to learn math you learn with math teacher, if you want to learn English you learn with English teacher ,if you want learn about the Jinn in the Quran you should seek Muslim scholars not the Jewish scholar 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@raularnela3654]

The problem is Muslim scholars are completely ignorant about the influence of prior tradition on the Quran and are afraid to even look into it. The same kind of fear or bias doesn’t exist in the other examples you gave, so you gave a false parallel. To study communism or Nazism should we only be taught by communists and Nazis?

[@dorarie3167]

There is no verifiable evidence of jinn actually existing. Belief in something doesn’t make it true.

[@thesolitude]

This should be preached in the mosques today

[@faraazhoeseni9273]

The jinns in the quran are often human beings..