Oroville Stall/Spin Crash 2 June 2022

[@blancolirio]

UPDATE 6/12 NTSB Preliminary Report data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/105179/pdf

[@julesviolin]

Had they done some gliding they would still be here today. 20hrs gliding should be compulsory within the PPL syllabus. I am a 1000 hr glider pilot and 500 hrs PPL pilot. The power syllabus is a complete joke

[@AlpineWarren]

I always taught in the Air Force and Civilian to all my students to say to themselves as soon as they power up for takeoff to repeat to themselves "The engine is going to quit". Since 1986 I've had 5 of them contact me and tell me it saved their lives when they lost an engine because they were not surprised... Something to think about for everyone.

[@davidcisneros1399]

One of the pilots on board was my instructor, and I was absolutely devastated when I heard about this earlier in the day. He had been my flight instructor in Oroville since I was 14 and I would take lessons with him in his C172 before he sold it. I first met him five years ago and he was the type of instructor that was open and willing to help with any questions I had, I know things won’t be the same without him. I hope they both may Rest In Peace.

[@Jas-fu2wz]

He was a very nice person, so sad 😞

[@vk2ig]

Sorry to hear of your loss. RIP to both.

[@danniemclendon1182]

Kurt or Ron?

[@Jas-fu2wz]

@@danniemclendon1182 I was referring about Kurt, I didn’t know the other person.

[@kari53]

That's tough. Sorry to hear of your loss.

[@mazeppa47]

My primary instructor was an Air Force pilot and each lesson included emergency procedures. He told me when an emergency occurs, people don't rise to the occasion they fall to their level of training.

[@catherinenelson4162]

Good quote!

[@anthonylehner3643]

So true. Something more people should think about!

[@kentfuqua9634]

Same with me. I think I spent more time with emergency procedures than anything else. It has paid off.

[@moonshiner5412]

I received my training at the Aero Club on Peterson AFB, CO. We also were taught emergency procedures in every flight, sometimes without warning. Our Chief Pilot was an F4 Jock with thousands of hours in every type of plane. He once told me the plane would fly better without you! I learned to not over control the plane from that comment.

[@Andrew-13579]

If I may suggest (and I might be wrong): They fall to their level of training when the pressure is on and overwhelming fear takes root. If you're calm and confident, and fully oriented, you can think. If you're surprised by the situation, and fear dominates (fight or flight), then you fall on your training/practice. And such fear can happen to anyone. It's when what is happening is beyond your knowledge/perception and ability to reason out...getting behind the airplane and knowing you are. For example, you may KNOW that when you enter a stall, you must not use aileron. But your reflexes are programmed/tuned to use aileron to control bank angle. So when you get to a surprise/fear situation...unexpected stall due to some other distraction...you will use aileron without thinking. Antidote? Always expect the unexpected. When you takeoff, if you are expecting the engine to quit and thinking ahead of what to do when it does, the only surprise will hopefully be when it doesn't and you successfully climb to a safe altitude.

[@TheFinerPoints]

It never ceases to amaze me that experienced pilots fall victim to this. It's always a huge wake-up call. It can happen to anybody, we'd best be prepared for it every time. RIP to the pilots.

[@cpy]

Complacency kills

[@ulbuilder]

With about 100 hours logged and a little over a year since getting my license I had an engine out at about 700ft AGL, landed on the runway without a scratch. I attribute the success to my CFI, he was in my head telling me to lower the nose and watch my airspeed. In the moment it just seemed like any other day, no panic just the feeling like "I got this" So I wonder, would all the intensive training from just a little over a year prior still be in my head in 20 years or will it fade away? Perhaps that's the issue, the BFR is not sufficient to keep us prepared and we get complacent thinking all the hours flown keep us prepared when in reality with virtually no engine out training on a regular basis we are not prepared. Also, I trained in a two seat quicksilver, if you don't get the nose down on that the moment the engine stutters you will be at stall speed nearly instantly because without the thrust of the high mounted pusher it pitches up when thrust is lost and since it has so much drag it slows down fast too. My Instructor would occasionally just pull the throttle back to see if I react quickly and get the nose down then ask where I'm landing. It's become more of an instinct to lower the nose when the engine sound changes than a decision I make. Maybe that instinct is what some pilots are missing?

[@choolereph]

@@cpy o.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

Experienced on mild maneuvering is the worst kind of stupid experience many have. Then when a hard maneuver, like EFATO, or go around from flare happens, they mess up.

[@anthonylehner3643]

@@ulbuilder love your instructors training tactics! Sounds like he did a pretty good job implanting that instinct in your head.👍

[@pyroman590]

This might be the most important video you've made. I'd encourage every pilot to give this a view and at the very least mentally refresh yourself on stalls and falls.

[@davepalacios9190]

Agreed!! I have watched the video twice all-ready and will probably watch it a few more times in the future and pass it on to friends, a good hedge against complacency!! J Bs Chanel is among the best in regard to safety / education.

[@dnickerson94gt]

Juan, I have not idea what happened in this accident of course but I have had an engine failure at 400 ft. No one got hurt and there was only minor damage to the airframe. I landed in a salt water marsh. As you instruct here, when the engine failed, my imediate response was to put the nose down. Why? because I had previous instruction in the senario. I was in an LLC with 2 other pilots in a 1980 M20J. We would regulary do instruction with each other. On a particulary windy day, blowing 20 KTs across the runway, a fellow partner and I went flying. On takeoff, the other pilot said "watch out for that aircraft" and pointed. Then he pulled pulled the power back and yelled "put the f**ing nose down!" When the engine quit for real, that was what I heard. Now for the most important information for other pilots. It is the hardest thing in the world to keep the nose down when the ground is rushing up at you. I mean, it is incredibly difficult and it's hard to train for this. As an old pilot told me once, "don't stop flying until the crunching stops"

[@asteverino8569]

I'm a not pilot and I learned some aerodynamic things today. Thanks Juan for your very better than average narration and knowledge. Rest in Peace you two.

[@vivianrotunda1587]

Some years back, we owned a Beech C23 Sundowner and lost substantial power during initial climb from Arlington WA. My low time pilot wife turned controls over to me without delay "your airplane -- okay my airplane". And the aircraft behind was reporting "Sundowner ahead is trailing black exhaust smoke". Pulling carb heat-ON just made things get worse, so we undid that and quickly completed the emergency items. Pushing the nose over to maintain flying speed, we aimed for a big green cow pasture ahead -- thinking "don't hit the cows". With the noise lowered just over those tall cedar trees but within gliding distance to the green pasture, normal engine power returned -- "okay good". However, slowly pulling the noise-up again to climb, the engine started losing power and running rough again. Pushing the nose over to maintain level flight (maybe 400 AGL), we declared an emergency return and flew a normal but somewhat tight-in pattern and then landed without further incident. Ironically, the engine ran perfectly on the ground, only to find a sunken carburetor float upon further engine inspection. It was dumping raw fuel into the carburetor intake from the vent-line during a climb due to a sunken foam composite float. We also had an intermittent sticking carburetor float in a newer model O-320-D2A on our RV-9A we later built. Replaced that white plastic hollow float with a modern "blue epoxy" float with stainless steel pin and arms. Have never again had carburetor problems. Can't stress enough what a wonderful innovation that indestructible "blue epoxy" float is! Carburetors with "F" stamped on the nameplate should have them.

[@systemloc]

Really good lesson. Worsening roughness on pulling the carb heat sounded like over rich condition, and you confirmed it.

[@Keestral]

Is there a reason why airplane carburated engines don't get retrofitted with electronic fuel injection? If such kit are able to improve performance and reliability on older car engines, why can't the same apply to aviation piston engines?

[@santamulligan676]

Early spitfire would cut out where the 109 didn’t ,fuel injection

[@oconnorcm]

Excellent guidance. Thank you for such a clear, well-written report.

[@vivianrotunda1587]

Video on that "blue epoxy" float -- think it's an SB but not an AD yet: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYHEdKysa5isldk

[@algermom1]

Great but sad report; peace and comfort to the pilots' loved and close ones.

[@NkosanaK]

Thank you for your analysis and insight into these tragedies, as fellow aviators you keep us striving to get better at the basics we can so easily forget.

[@moxievintage1390]

Juan you’ve made this an exceptionally meaningful teaching moment. Much appreciated 🫡

[@leemccready4652]

Thanks Juan. Sad deal but as always thanks for taking the time to educate. I'm just trying to get ready for my PPL checkride and your videos teach me stuff that I feel would take a lot of hours to figure out on my own.

[@pyroman590]

This video was a lifetime of knowledge packed into a few minutes. You'll do yourself a favor if you reference it from time to time as a reminder, it might save your life one day.

[@royturbodiesel]

@@pyroman590 Amen to that!

[@nickinportland]

I’ve been watching these for years I swear I keep this up I’m going to be the most educated non pilot in town

[@77thTrombone]

Unless you live in my town - You'll be #2! 😜

[@nickinportland]

@@77thTrombone 😂 bet!

[@philo5096]

Too funny​@@77thTrombone

[@bigkenny66]

Thanks Juan. I just made two hops of 75 miles for jump operations, with a very experienced commercial pilot, in a Cessna 206. I have placarded the airspeed indicator for DMMS, and watched how he handled the plane during maneuvering to land. HE NEVER BUSTED THE TAPE MARK UNTIL ON FINAL, CONFIGURED FOR LANDING. I did not tell him what the yellow hash mark was until we were on the ground, and he was glad to hear that speed gives us 30 degrees of bank stall protection with engine out, and that it was our airspeed floor in the pattern. God bless you, Dan, Steve, and Josh at Aviation101 for making the aviation community aware of how to stay safe while flying by developing 'can't miss' flying habits and techniques. While I am not a pilot, I am partially responsible for an aircraft, and I am encouraging every pilot I meet to learn about AQP maneuvers, and to practice them with their CFI on their next bi-annual flight review. I like these folks and want to keep them around as long as I can.

[@zidoocfi]

RIP to the two pilots. It's a sober reminder that when an engine fails at low altitude and it's time to "Aviate Navigate Communicate", there may only be time to "Aviate" by putting the nose down immediately.

[@brucemiller8109]

As my IP Dad use to say "Pick a Point (to ditch)" and review the airport surrounding area before you go air motoring. Engine to Idle about 700 Feet was a common MO for my IP, Pick the point, no turns under 1500 Feet, use a highway when needed.

[@ljfinger]

You don't have to put the nose down immediately, you can simply wait a moment, and the plane will do it for you. Your call.

[@wesmcgee1648]

Yep. My uncle was a flying service and flight school owner in the 70s. Taught me to fly when I was 13, 1972. He would say, if you're smelling the pine sap but not hitting the trees, you can get out of trouble, ie, not stalling by yanking that yolk.

[@epicspacetroll1399]

@@brucemiller8109 Is there reason why there is inconsistent spacing between you words? Some have one space, most have two spaces, and a few even have three spaces. lol Good IP though.

[@JohnSmith-rq8hw]

@@epicspacetroll1399 I’ve got to know as well LOL

[@qwerty1239001]

Thank you for giving attention to such an informative video like Turn Smart. As a spray pilot I was instructed to watch it, and have watched it over and over again and feel like I learn or relearn something each time. Thank you Juan and thank you Wayne.

[@tomtom1313]

Juan, I first learned about “getting light in your seat” from a Dan Gryder video. I believe that your video as well as Dan’s, is some of the most valuable information that all pilots need to take very serious. This stuff needs to be taught to all student pilots and become a requirement to obtain you private pilot license. Thank you for this excellent video

[@CrazyPetez]

I’m not a pilot, but I’m learning a lot about flying from your videos. Not to the extent I would run out and fly, but to understand the complexities of flying. Thank you Juan.

[@EirikV]

The «Turn Smart» vid is a gem! Thank you for sharing it.

[@tomdchi12]

Thanks very much for sharing Wayne's video (including the link in the description.) His explanation and demonstrations are extremely clear.

[@KestrelYI]

I appreciate the teaching moment. Been working toward my glider add on over the last few months and the lessons have really helped improve my rudder skills.

[@Cmoredebris]

I like the idea of requiring a glider rating before SEL.

[@TheOwlGuy777]

I have a B-19 and can tell you first hand that if the power fails, you get that nose down and keep the ASI in the green and the horn will still stay on right until the wheels stop.

[@stevelehel3625]

Wow, lot of good info with the demonstration video Juan! Slow flight, roll control with rudder. Fast flight, roll control with stick. Its a matter of marginally speeding up the wing entering a stall. This is the last line of defence at a low altitude, post a stall condition. Next step is recover to a safe airspeed.

[@mikeoswald8053]

Very sorry about the loss of the two souls. However, Juan, this is one of the best instructional presentations on this issue-ever. If my first CFI and the guys that introduced me to the Stearman and ag spraying were still here we would all be giving you high fives. Outstanding! Thank you.

[@kellyodea6259]

Thank you Juan. I am always impressed with the quality of your presentations. I am a full time CFII and insist on takeoff abort and emergency procedures to be recited out loud BEFORE EVERY SINGLE TAKEOFF, regardless of what level of pilot is in the left seat. If it is a certificated pilot and they give me a half assed abort procedure, I guarantee there will be a delay in the run-up area to pause and discuss all possible scenarios during departure. I can only wonder if these CFIs recited an emergency abort procedure before takeoff. So many pilots think “best glide airspeed” and “land straight ahead” or “within 30 degrees of the runway” is always the right answer. You need to push that nose down and fly it to the ground if the engine fails after rotation. RIP fellow aviators.

[@moonshiner5412]

During training for my Private Pilot, we were practicing stalls. I was holding it just at stall and the left wing started to drop. I reacted with aileron and we immediately went into a spin. I said an expletive and my instructor said "What? Fly the plane!" I immediately realized we weren't in trouble yet and recovered from the spin and flew away. I learned to "dance" on the peddles that day and stay away from the aileron! I hate stalls but realize I need to recognize it approaching and what to do if I don't catch it in time. Testing an engine while flying? Scary thought!

[@grayrabbit2211]

There is no substitute for experiencing real spins and recovering from them.

[@ronoconnor8971]

I hated practicing accelerated stalls.

[@ConvairDart106]

I made the same mistake in a 152 while practicing power on stalls. The torque rolled us left and I tried picking up the wing with aileron. Same result. A spin! My WW2 instructor drilled into my head to use rudder anytime near the stall region. I am no longer afraid of stalls, and do them regularly at altitude just to retain the skills. I have flying buddies who have not stalled since training, and suck in their breath in fear when I do them. If they are afraid of stalls, perhaps they should not be flying?

[@chuckcampbell3927]

@@ronoconnor8971 🛫📖🛬 Same here Ron. Accelerated stalls was a big departure from the smooth and safe feeling practice that we had been doing and suddenly you realize this airplane is capable of some pretty violent maneuvering. I realized then that I had a little bit of fear of unusual attitudes. That all being said and done; Eventually that led me to A lifetime Love of aerobatics. Man o man, where has the time gone??? Good flying to you brother 📖🛐✈️

[@kiwidiesel]

Rudder is your best friend gentleman.

[@itsmebatman]

Man, watching channels like this made me realize just how much knowledge and experience is needed for a pilot to be really good. It looks so simple from afar or in video games.

[@stephenshoihet2590]

and you can be sure that there are a lot of marginal pilots out there that are fine as long as everything goes well... they do the same thing over and over but as soon as there's a problem and they have to deviate from their regular routine, they don't have a plan for unexpected and it's bound to not go well. One cannot fly a plane like so many people drive a car, with a low level of skill and lack of attention and expect to survive. Smart people plan/train for the unexpected because it's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when" :-)

[@karlscribner7436]

Watch Juan and others I realize what a poor pilot I was when I quit. I never had enough training and had the “well I got the golden ticket I’m an aviator!” Attitude. Good thing life interfered.

[@charliewatts6895]

@@karlscribner7436 Yep we all have to recognize our limits. I would make a terrible pilot. I love flying but as a passenger only lol.

[@tugpilothrs]

Well put together. As a gliding instructor we teach these aspects and every annul check we go over them. Although landing take off can be the most dangerous place for a stall/spin glider pilots thermal at low speed and tight turns and gusting thermals often place you in that stalled position. The easiest and most demonstrated recovery is your negative g attitude. Allow the aircraft to gain airspeed before control input and recentering the thermal. With practice you can feel it coming on and recover with little if any hight loss. Expecialy when there may be many gliders in the thermal. Full spins are practiced in training to allow students to learn spin recovery but mostly so they can feel a spin coming on and recover before it is established. As a GA pilot and tug pilot unfortunatly most power clubs do not have access to aerobatic aircraft and stalls are usually as far as an anual check goes. I personaly recomend powered pilots ever ask their local gliding club ( we are always happy to deminstrate to power pilots this training) or a club with an aerobatic aircraft and an appropriate instructor. It may one day save your life.

[@SVSky]

Stalling out of thermals is a everyday thing!

[@tugpilothrs]

@@SVSkyWith experience and training you feel it coming and correct before it happens.

[@JMOUC265]

Extremely understandable and valuable demonstrations by Wayne. His explanations are very clear, I think. Thank you for inserting them into your video.

[@alancordwell9759]

I was thinking the exact same, it's wonderful that we get this on Juan's channel. It's worth its weight in gold. Especially if one day it saves your life!

[@lordauriel8724]

tbh with VR headset these days, I personally can testify that training (condor 2 in my case, glider sim) such things at home is absolutely underrated. I did many stalls in the sim, and when it happened IRL (in a glider it does happen often while thermalling since we fly right at max AOA) I instinctively did what I trained for. ease stick, kick the low wing up with the rudder, recover, continue thermalling. no big deal, didnt even give a 2nd thought. I will always be an ardent supporter of VR + flight sims as a tool to enhance airmanship and build muscle memory. All the arguments against it seem to come from people who don't fly IRL or never tried it.

[@stevefambro189]

Do you use Xplane or the latest MSFS?

[@bernieschiff5919]

I agree, I think desktop flight sims can help train for the correct response to unplanned situations. Not always available or used in primary flight schools. Would be interesting to know who PIC was on this flight? Was anyone watching the airspeed indicator? (It's that round gauge over there on upper left-hand corner.) The mission was to check out a possible engine problem. I think both pilots may have become fixated or distracted by the engine instruments and RPM, while one pilot was applying or pulling back to keep the nose up. The surveillance video might show which way the aircraft rotated in the stall spin.

[@jdoe4983]

I should try the VR headset for chair flying.

[@nua1234]

Secondly if you mess up in a sim, can just start again as often as it takes to make it instinctive.

[@slammerf16]

I'm not a real pilot but I can say that I've definitely learned to recover from a (simulated) stall by crashing the DCS Mosquito many times while trying to land on one engine. Watching Juan's videos has been extremely useful in understanding VMC rolls and using the rudder to recover from a stall. The Mossie is a dream with two engines but will kill you really fast if you don't understand exactly what is going on when flying a twin on one engine.

[@bobcardone7437]

I got my PPL back in 1978. I never learned any of these issues that you are covering. I remember thinking that if I just didn't stall the aircraft, I would be OK, but had no idea how quickly one would have to respond if an engine failed on takeoff. This type of training should be mandatory.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

It was. But the liberal FAA of Bill Clinton deleted EFATO, the low go arounds and others "Hard Maneuvers to teach" from pilot syllabus. They even deleted steep turns for a while too. They should make them obligatory to teach them at least on simulators.

[@EXROBOWIDOW]

A couple years before you got your PPL, I took driver ed. and driver training at my high school. In the classroom, our instructor went over some emergency situations and how to deal with them. We could not physically practice them, but I mentally rehearsed them. I've been wondering if the horrendous auto accident and fatality rate of late is partly due to driver training curriculum having been axed from our public school curriculum years ago. If you're interested, here are some of the scenarios: Head-On Collision. Move into the lane, shoulder, or whatever is to your right. (In the U.S.A.) Don't bother with the brakes. You want to avoid this collision at all costs, even if you go off the side of a mountain. My dad told me stories. Two times I was in the car he was driving; one time, I was old enough to know what was going on. We were blessed to have a solid shoulder both times. Weird story: Once a relative saw an oncoming car swing wide, so he opted to go between that car and the vehicle it was passing. His car came out narrower, and he got a broken arm. Flat Tire. In a blowout, keep your hands on the wheel, and maintain control. Again, no brakes, until the car is stable, then gently on the brakes while maintaining control. I never had this happen, but my husband did, and he did a great job handling it. He was expecting it though, because we'd just found out that we had a bad tire while parked in the middle of nowhere. We didn't know about checking the dates on tires then. Spin out/skid. If the rear end starts sliding one direction, turn the wheel that same direction. First time it happened to me, I was doing a left turn in the rain from a stop. I automatically corrected, though, because the spin was starting to point me in the wrong direction. Stuck Accelerator. I've never had to deal with this one, though it's popular in spy movies. Step on the brake briefly while shifting into neutral. Don't shut off the engine, because you'll lose your power steering and braking. Steer the car to a safe place, then shut off the engine and set your parking brake. In the spy movies, this doesn't work, because your enemy has sabotaged everything else on your car. You're dead-- unless the movie makers gave you superpowers. I'm noticing a common thread between planes and cars: Maintain control. Mostly by steering.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

@@EXROBOWIDOW Thanks for the review. They dont do that anymore in high school? They really take the shitt of you when you see photos of dead people inside cars and the destruction. I still remember some of those photos i saw from a projector. In 1970 senior year.

[@royturbodiesel]

@@EXROBOWIDOW Very good write-up. I have nearly 40 years of 4 wheel driving experience in Norway. Narrow roads, and harsh winter conditions. I can relate to everything you say.

[@EXROBOWIDOW]

@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 I had to look it up. Most California high schools dropped the behind-the-wheel part due to budget cuts. The classroom part is supposed to be offered, but not required for graduation or college admission. Apparently more students are either getting private instruction, or are waiting till they turn 18 and don't have to take the classes. Either way, rhey still have to pass the tests.

[@warrensmith2902]

Great job. I am forever in my instructors debt for the additional training we did in a C-152 aerobatic over Suisun Bay, to teach me how to recognize and properly recover from these situations. Thanks Demuis. BTW, it's hard to wear parachutes and fit into a 152. Much easier in an AT-6, Thanks Chuck.

[@frankh5142]

Thank you for these lessons. As a student glider pilot we are also trained to act as shown. Things I'm happy to recognize from practice; using the much more effective rudder (instead of the ailerons) at stall speeds. 0G flight and recovering from it by pitch nose down; opposite rudder when stall/spin to one side. In a glider the most effective way to get the correct airspeed is the pitch angle. We don't have a throttle :-) we have to use gravity... I guess the same for engined aircraft.

[@chrisnegele6875]

As a former instructor I made every student proficient in what you called the falling leaf. I would explain that at the edge of a stall and certainly in it the ailerons will just put you in the spin! The other thing I preached to avoid the base final stall spin is proper wind correction angles in the pattern I'd sit there and watch a student or a pilot on a rental check out flight get blown back into the runway on down wind and think this is the classic set up for a stall spin base final and use it as a teachable moment. I now fly hang gliders and constantly preach that low and slow is just as dangerous in a hang glider as a airplane. Great work Juan!

[@jasonn85]

Very low time PPL here saying thanks for making this stuff so clear. You’re definitely making us all a bit safer.

[@novinnovations4026]

Wayne's demonstrations and information is invaluable. what incredible information. Thank you both

[@freepilot7732]

Fantastic video. I trained in aerobatics and stick and rudder flying. To brag it seems second nature for me to push forward. Stall spins were my first flight lesson. though watching this video really put it back into my mind and heart. It appeared I felt complacent while watching and didn't even know it. I personally needed this refresher. I can't thank you enough.

[@wes_d]

My instructor and I were discussing this very point of using the rudder when recovering from the stall and not trying to level the wings. It’s unfortunate that an accident with death is a reinforcement the lesson. Next flight will likely be doing these very practice maneuvers as I continue to knock the rust off after 20 years of not flying and finish my flight review. Thanks for this content and stay safe out there.

[@paulreider8321]

RIP to the pilots of N7641R...thanks Juan for the very informative analysis and review

[@johnfitzpatrick2469]

G, day from Sydney Australia. Takeaways * The size and position of turn co-ordinator in the Ag plane "step on the ball." * Air flow around the wings in a stall turn ( back and forward wing) 📏🙇 "That was fantastic instruction video."

[@stevepasha9668]

I have Wayne Handleys "TURN SMART " video.. The best training I ever received. Made flying my taildragger a real pleasure !

[@WX4CB]

I was learning this EXACT same thing last week with my instructor with the bushcat

[@toddcitron7869]

Great teaching and instructional video Juan. So true we need to address what seems to be an epidemic of GA stall/spin types of accidents, often fatal. I loved the your reference to Bob Hoover’s adage “Fly it as far into the crash as you can.” Well done 👍

[@danroll81]

I remember my CFI days, and constantly telling my students from student pilots to CFIs these timeless lifesavers you and Wayne brilliantly demonstrated here. This stuff is still taking lives! Even now in the airline world we practice basics like these on UPRT (upset recovery training).

[@KennethAGrimm]

Unofficial lessons from my high-school teacher in his Luscombe 8A are coming back to me in memory. Specifically, the number 65. "Keep your airspeed above 65! Keep your airspeed above 65!" Now Juan explains this is the minimum maneuvering airspeed.

[@drenk7]

Thank You Jaun. Training = Practice! I once lost power at cruise. I was actually “thrown” forward by the deceleration of the aircraft. Not really hard yet the unrestrained part of my body moved forward. This was in the only airplane I truly disliked. An Eurcope, with out rudder peddles. I can no longer obtain any class of medical. So this Europe qualified as light sport. I have a Commercial Certificate with multi-engine and instrument ratings. Used to do the falling leaf in my Cessna 140 before loss of medical. I do remember my instructor “pulling” the engine, on takeoff in a Cessna 150 as part of my private pilot training. Learned to get the nose down! Next was to pick a landing spot, fast, then start the approach. Darn instructor would keep both his hands on the throttle . So I could not apply power myself. He would eventually reapply power. Sometimes it thought I could count the dirt clods in the Plowed Field. Ron was an excellent instructor 👍

[@ah244895]

Thanks!

[@gerryg1056]

Thank you Juan, it is always a pleasure to listen and learn from people of experience, it's just sad that it has to happen because of a tragedy.

[@JonMulveyGuitar]

Very sad news for the family and friends of these pilots. RIP! Thank you Juan as always, you respectfully use these tragic events as teachable moments for all of us.

[@marsgal42]

I fly a 23 Musketeer, the earlier version. Like the 19 she's not over-powered, but if I keep her light (two seats only) I have all the performance I need. Power-off stalls are straight ahead with a good break. Power-on stalls require happy feet to keep from dropping a wing.

[@soaringbumnm8374]

It is a ground lover though

[@davepalacios9190]

@@soaringbumnm8374 Any plane that looses an engine becomes a ground lover, Granted some more than others.

[@tccdlinux1471]

When I got my private pilot in mid 80's I had to do a couple of actual spin and recovery. But I hear so much you are teaching I was NEVER exposed to, or I forgot. Great teaching and experience for the new guys.

[@brianphelan685]

This is an AWESOME educational video Juan. Thanks so much for all you do for the aviation community!

[@islandlife756]

So sad for the pilots and their loved ones. And I am thinking too of Kellen, having now witnessed a fatality at Wayne, NE, and then having this double fatality close by when you were at Oroville, CA. What a baptism of fire he is having. Still, it's one way for the safety messages to be driven home, when we see the results of not responding the right way. I just watched your video about the air taxi "runway excursion" crash at Oroville, too. I hope those two pilots have been disciplined, and done further training (or left the profession.) I would never want to fly with such unprofessional, careless pilots after that near miss. IMO every time a co-pilot sits down next to a captain for takeoff they should ask themselves am I willing to say "reject!" if needed. And of course a captain must be willing to take the proper action as soon as he hears it.

[@77thTrombone]

Dude!

[@edgarmuller6652]

First react to the call then when stopped ask why.

[@lauraradigan4114]

What you are saying is exactly what is taught to primary glider students if they suffer a tow rope break during launch. Nose down and build speed. Speed is life!

[@drl1046]

This video was the most instructional I’ve ever seen. I think everyone understands to push forward in a wings level stall (even a caveman gets that concept) but for sure it’s psychologically challenging in the heat of the moment - but at least that is practiced at altitude a fair bit and conceptually something that everyone can understand. What got me was the issue of dropping a wing and how to use rudder but not aileron - I feel like the urge to want to use aileron to lift the wing back up would be impossible to overcome and this isn’t practiced unless someone is doing aerobatics or spin training. This really enlightened me on how a lot of these low altitude stall-spins go down - thank you.

[@nancychace8619]

Sorry to hear of this. Appreciate your channeling it into a teachable moment. As things have gotten more complicated over time (technology, etc.), still prudent to review the basics. Good reminders for all of us. Thanks for sharing.

[@tsr7198]

Thank you Juan. I'm glad you are here to report but more importantly to instruct.

[@gregmarchegiani6656]

Your final comment is gold. It can happen to anyone of us. Training, training, training

[@jamesclapp6940]

What a lucky intern you have to be taught by a master! Thank you

[@omarcos3228]

Sympathy for families of deceased pilots. Juan, you can help people stay alive with this kind of educational content. Pls keep up!!! I sincerely hope to see many more instructive videos and much less accidents. All of you guys , that are part of on line aviation community are slowly but surely creating a new level of general aviation knowledge among us all. I d like to believe that 5 to 10 years from now it will show in numbers. Thank you.

[@eugeneweaver3199]

My condolences to family and friends. It's so sad that despite all efforts to keep this from happening, it keeps happening! Thank you for your persistent efforts to educate!

[@petern5565]

For us humans Flying is an AQUIRED instinct and requires TRAINING to establish. After seeing these videos I have come to appreciate the training I received "way back" which was in these situation or maybe in all situations you fly the ARSPEED on the STICK the DIRECTION on the RUDDER and the ALTITUDE on the THROTLE. I really love that new guideline on ZERO G yes AQUIRE that instinct as well and you will INSTICTIVLY fly like a bird. The wing has no idea what the ground is doing and WILL ALWAYS STALL at a very specific Angle of attack. I always enjoy the LIFE SAVING message you are providing. Thank You

[@carlhendricks349]

As a person going through there ground training it has been great listen to these video's that you have been providing. I'm learning lots from them. Thanks

[@kimberlywentworth9160]

Great video. I am a student pilot and I like the way they asked me which wing would stall in a skid or slip. I knew immediately but Glad this verified that I was correct. I have spin training coming soon if we can get the weather to cooperate. I know how important this is along with emergency procedures. I have done emergency procedures the simulator and used up a few lives. Then my CFI took me up and we practiced them in the plane along with how long it takes me to turn 180 degrees in a coordinated steep turn to bet back to the runway if I am above 900 AGL.

[@rkstewart9585]

I'm grateful to see your content as a new pilot. Seeing these topics my CFI drilled into my brain covered and extrapolated the way you present the topics while reinforcing knowledge is saving lives. Thank You.

[@1hilbilly2]

It has to be hard to report on these incidents, especially the ones you have witnessed. Oroville is the closest airport to me. Thank you for choosing to share so we can learn! When I get my PPL, DMMS and engine out practice will be frequent and intentional for as long as I fly. I have learned much from you, Dan, and Jason. I hope to get some air time with each of you in the near future. Condolences to the families and friends.

[@amascia8327]

You cannot do better than this report: it doesn't have to be... and here's how. This is brilliant Mr Browne sir. Thanks. Lord have mercy.

[@daverohn383]

Thanks for taking the time to make videos like this Juan. I greatly appreciate learning experiences such as this. The more I learn about the physics of an aircraft, the less likely I am to die or kill someone else in a preventable accident.

[@jamesmcguire5312]

As a commercial pilot I flew a Pilatus PC12 for over 15 years. Every takeoff we briefed engine failure procedures. Below 800 feet go straight ahead or left or right of the runway to get the best landing spot. After achieving 800 foot altitude we would have the option of turning back toward the airport. We would brief the direction that we would turn based on the wind and terrain. I only had one incident. Taking off the master warning illuminated and indicated a power loss. I was about 800 feet and it already started turning back toward the airport. We realized then that we had not lost the engine but simply the power gauge had dropped to zero. I advised the tower we climbed back up the pattern altitude made a normal landing and made the repairs on the ground. Flying a single turboprop you’re always prepared for engine failure.

[@MrKylehornsey]

i.e. single engine we should always anticipate windshear/engine failure so when it doesn't happen it's a bonus and we're on our way.

[@charleshaggard4341]

Another great video. I'm not a pilot but like your teaching and explanation on how to prevent these situations.

[@kurtak9452]

Agreed. Great presentation Juan.

[@cjc1103]

Juan always zeroes in on the most likely cause, and tells you what you need to know to avoid being in the same situation. A clear takeoff brief can help, (even with two instructors - don't get complacent). As an airline pilot we do this all the time, even when both pilots know the procedures cold. Saying it out loud will reinforce it in your mind so you don't have think what to do when it actually happens. In this case it's pretty simple, push the nose over and maintain flying speed, land straight ahead. A very sad and preventable accident.

[@flymachine]

I grew up with massive respect for Wayne, great to see his considerable wisdom being shared here. We lost a great aerobatic aviator and friend Sammy Sampson in SA a few days ago, I would love to see your take on the bizarre departure from controlled flight as seen in video, my take was stalled wing over correction but we are all left dumbfounded

[@slayer8actual]

I love these 'return to basic' type videos. You're absolutely correct when you say it's too easy for someone to get complacent, especially when flying with someone who has also been flying for ages. I like to think that some of our procedures are instinctive and just natural actions and reactions to controlling an aircraft, but then I have to remind myself that things only get instinctive when you practice them often. Since some of us haven't been in a stall since the early days (we're just too good to stall an aircraft now) and that if we ever did stall one, we would most likely have to take a second to think about reacting to something that happens in a split second. Too late by then. "Stepping on the ball" shouldn't take a thought. It should be an instinctive reaction. Thanks for reminding us (me) of that.

[@jimimmler9110]

Very sad loosing two pilots, RIP. I’m a Canadian trained pilot. In Canada stall/spins are a mandatory part of our flight training. I executed dozens of stall/spins at about 4500 AGL during my training. I am grateful to say that my brain’s instinctive reaction was permanently converted into a ‘shove it forward’ & ‘nosedive toward the ground using only rudder’ type of thinking. Several years ago with only about 100ft AGL on final I hit some crazy wind shear and had at least a 45 degree wing drop to the right. Wife and two daughters onboard and heading straight toward an aircraft that was holding short for me I reacted immediately without thinking, lined back up with the centerline and pulled off a greaser without even the need for a go around. The debrief in my head took over a year but I always came back to my burned in instinct and fantastic flight instructor. I must say that the difficulty to resist pulling back was not at all applicable. It must be burned in to the brain as an automatic reflex. Please. Everyone.

[@koenmentens]

Thx for all the good advice to prevent these stall accidents. I learn a lot of al your accident review videos . As a beginning pilot trying to get my PPL these videos are very helpfull

[@RobertJl9516]

Juan I'm a big fan and do you remember Orange Airport in north Stockton California. It's now long gone to subdivisions but I grew up in sight of the place and my dad owned a Luscombe there. Dad let others fly the Luscombe to spread out the cost and a low time pilot crashed it showing off to his girl friend in Manteca CA... stall spin while doing touch and goes. He survived but the plane was totaled:( When I returned from the Vietnam war I luckily had flight training at the old Lodi drag strip and new Lodi airport from a veteran bird colonel Vietnam fighter pilot that told me to fly the Cessna150 like a fighter and not a bomber. I trained flying into small air strips in the Sierra Nevada foothills including Nevada city, San Andrea's and other small mountainous runways. I learned and became comfortable to come in with a high glide angle and flaring out on the numbers. I was confident and as a low time pilot made many cross country flights. That before GPS and had the map and flight plan strapped to my leg! VOR ruled back then. But got married, had kids then going to grad school ended up short on money so bought an ultralight and had a couple of near crashes and hung it up. Just saying my training and what you have said Juan, keep up your maneuvering speed was imprinting on my mind by a great instructor and save me. I was lucky to not crash but the two near misses gave me pause. Believe what Juan is saying, always keep the airspeed above stall speed at low elevation.

[@cwhitty05]

Juan, you’re doing a great job with your instructional videos! I wish more instructors taught this kind of stuff in primary training, and some of it being added to the ACS. I believe we’d have a lot less events like this if they did.

[@oldmeadowvalevillager7961]

Thank you Juan . . Retired airline employee from way back . . Had A lot of fun on the field before 911 when there was hardly any restrictions.

[@tonywaters737]

Great video on the prevention of stall/spin! Thank you 🙏

[@F1fan007]

So sad to see two instructors auger in. But man, that was a super good video and reminder to train, train, train. Muscle memory and instant response. Thank you Juan!

[@easttexan2933]

deepest sympathies to family, loved ones and friends of these two CFI's. Yes Juan, we are seeing this happen more frequently. Got to keep preaching AQP training. I just can't imagine taking this flight with known engine problems. Hope we get more info on that.

[@sprintcarsandguitars959]

ya,as a mech on everything but aircraft you couldn't get me in that plane knowing it had an un diagnosed issue with the engine. no reason why you couldn't have diagnose the problem on the ground?

[@jameslongway7051]

Excellent teaching moment Juan! One of my first CFI’s showed me how much it takes to push over the aircraft while simulating engine outs while climbing as slow as Vx. Recommend for everyone to practice at altitude of course.

[@jimmydulin928]

Excellent video Juan. Major points were to unload the wing and use rudder only to level the wing. I like DMMS for airspeed indicator users, or just think about it for we who don't use instruments except IFR. A tried and true takeoff technique for crop dusters is the basic low (six inches is best) ground effect takeoff and pitch up only when necessary and only enough to clear obstacles. Yes, with a big load we might end up going to the field at fifty feet or so. The argument about not having enough altitude to make the LZ is not accurate. We have zoom reserve airspeed. Without power, airspeed is altitude or maneuvering capability. In nine engine failures coming out of the crop field or in the turn, I was able to maneuver as necessary to make an LZ in the near hemisphere and was high (top of energy management turn) and fast requiring full flap and full slip to make the beginning. Until high enough to recover from inadvertent stall, airspeed and not altitude is life. Yes, dumping the nose to trade altitude for airspeed works equally well. What doesn't happen equally well is immediate recognition of the problem quick enough to exchange altitude for airspeed. Stall practice, while good for high altitude stall, is seldom helpful down low. The two hundred feet altitude they had, however, could have been a world of airspeed. Better, in low ground effect when the engine failed, they could have landed on the runway straight ahead. I only had one takeoff engine failure. I simply held off until deceleration and landed on the runway remaining.

[@MoMadNU]

The best thing I ever did as a private pilot and will swear to it to this day was to get basic aerobatic training very early in my flying career. The falling leaf exercise is one of the best ways to improve rudder skills. Being able to instinctively use rudder only to keep wings level is a must have skill for every fixed wing pilot.

[@beachbum77979]

I appreciate the information. At first I thought this was going to be just another video about a GA aircraft crash with only speculation, pending investigation. I seemed that way at first, but then came explanations and demonstrations, also known as education. We will know more about the engine, soon. What was wrong with it, who signed off on the repairs, why the flight was attempted as the investigation goes forward. But this video helps pilots know what reflexes they need to develop and skills they need to practice in case of engine failure on takeoff. Thank you Juan...

[@stevenmacdonald9619]

Respects to the families of the two pilots lost on 2nd June. The more I learn about flying, the more complicated and dangerous it seems, inducing fear, but it can't be true when I hear the way Juan talks. I'm guessing, since I can race cars, that the principle remains the same in as much as you must always control your machine, and the machine must never control you. There's no way, if I took flight instruction, I could simply pick out some 'guy' at a flight school. If I had the funding, or if I ever do gain what would be needed, I would certainly make the 5000 mile journey, and ask Mr Juan Browne to be my instructor. Knowledge, capability and confidence dispel fear, and he has those skills in abundance. Everything about him is pure 'teacher'. I must say in passing, I love the little artificial horizon dial on The Mighty Luscombe. An actual tiny plane is so relatable in flight. I may never fly under my own power, but that doesn't stop me being absolutely fascinated with something, that as humans, totally exceeds our normal physical capabilities. It's easy to say that if God had intended us to fly, he would have given us wings. Well he did, in the form of every aircraft ever built. I very much doubt there are many greater thrills than controlling an aircraft, and becoming a bird, even for a while. That's why it is so tragic when people lose their lives in such a way. To touch the sky.

[@vk2ig]

I agree with your sentiments concerning the saying "If God had intended us to fly, he would have given us wings." To me, it's just like saying "If God had intended us to cross the ocean, he would have given us floats and flippers or fins."

[@stevenmacdonald9619]

@@vk2ig Yes exactly. That is why we are so rare, Universally speaking. Any other species is most likely to die if you take it away from it's own environment, and habitat, with very few being able to adapt to random circumstance. The depths of the oceans, remain largely untouched, and more is known about the darkness beyond our planet, solar system etc, than is known about the depths of some of our seas and oceans. Especially the South Seas. We were intended to do nothing. Primordial ooze, that multiplied, and multiplied again. Plants>Insects>Invertibrates/Snakes/Lizards>Birds/Small Mammals>Monkeys>Apes>GreatApes> Then three Neanderthal/Neolithic versions of pre-humans. Then skippy skippy skip skip to December 17th 1903, and man takes his first flight in a machine. Whomever the creator was, we are certainly the evolution. Doctors used to say (they don't talk much recently) do something that frightens you at least once every day. That way you will lead an exciting life, and you will live a longer, healthier one too. And if you want to fly, you will have to do far better than flapping your arms really fast. I would love this to have actually been said by one of the Wright Brothers, to the other 🤣

[@budyeddi5814]

Thanks so much Blancolirio 🙏 You, Dan and others like the gentleman in the video are making better and safer pilots💪

[@bwalker4194]

Learned to fly 40 years ago in a Piper Colt with a 75 years young ex-Navy pilot. He made me spin it with slips and skids and by far the most startling was the over-the-top wing of the slip entry. Very disorienting that you can at one second be in a big left bank, then the next second be looking at the ground rolling right with the yoke still held left. I learned very early to “step on the ball” and “the ball is life”. He used to say that the rudders always have your back, but the ailerons can be a fickle mistress. Having learned what not to do, however, it was an absolute blast to turn high left base, then half way to final, push the nose over and with full right rudder enjoy a monstrous, fully cross-controlled side slip to 50 feet above the runway.

[@scrappyjackalope9558]

Sad and didn't need to happen. Thanks for the great reminder to all Jaun... Heart goes out their families.

[@catherinenelson4162]

Thank you, Juan. I'm so sorry for the families of those two instructors.

[@hughboyle]

Excellent presentation Juan. Sorry to hear of the loss of both pilots.

[@ghostprepper5859]

Thanks for the update, Praying for the families

[@JohnComley]

Brilliantly analysed, with great training to boot! Thank you, Juan 🙏🏼

[@whaleybridgeInfo]

Drills = Skills . i love how you cover these events and point out the dangers and remedies . very sad out come for those on board

[@RWSCOTT]

love these videos, your commentary is always right to the point. In ANY vehicle, so important to experience loss of control so you know what it feels like & can react quickly & calmly.

[@yru435]

Great video Juan. It is incredible how often this happens to experienced aviators.

[@michaelosgood9876]

Great explanation.Practicing stall recovery from time to time jz an absolute must.

[@GalenCop9]

Thank you for posting this video!! Great information!!