Fr. Seraphim Rose on the Extremes of Ecumenism and Old Calendar Zealotism, 1979

[@ryrocks9487]

I love my dear Fr Seraphim's voice.

[@medeasamkharadze8989]

Me too! 🥹 It’s soothing!🥹❤️

[@ryrocks9487]

@@medeasamkharadze8989 100%.It's calming, it just exudes peace!

[@jomppatykkylainen4291]

One of the greatest saints of modern times, may the Lord forgive us

[@frankhorrigan4030]

@@jomppatykkylainen4291 He was Genuine Orthodox, Not world orthodox. Join his church

[@lindamorgan2678]

@@frankhorrigan4030 what is "his church" ? and was he sainted recently ? I am confused my apologies

[@strugglingathome]

@@frankhorrigan4030 incorrect, you schismatics can keep your hothouse

[@frankhorrigan4030]

@@lindamorgan2678 he is not formally declared sanctified, but he was a member of the Genuine Orthodox faith.

[@andersongoncalves3387]

@@strugglingathome "The fire of true Orthodoxy is still alive in many places: in the Catacomb Church of enslaved Russia, in the persecuted *True Orthodox Christians of Greece [old calendrist]*, in the maligned Russian Church Outside of Russia, in the Zealots of Mt. Athos." - Father Seraphim Rose, "The Zealots of Mt. Athos" (1972 edition of "The Orthodox Word") "With regard to “jurisdictions,” we are in full communion with the Greek Old-Calendarist jurisdiction of Archbishop Auxentios in Athens and with the Catacomb Church in Russia; with other jurisdictions our relations are strained, and in some cases broken altogether (owing to the sad history of 20th-century Orthodoxy, outlined above). " Letter 253, 1978 "They are not carried away by the movement of apostasy...but continue to be rooted in the holy and saving faith of Holy Orthodoxy...Many of them continue to follow the bishops of the few jurisdictions that have taken a strong stand against the apostasy of our time: the Catacomb church of Russia, the Russian Church Outside of Russia, and the True Orthodox Christians of Greece (Old Calendrist of Greece)." - 1979 edition of Orthodoxy and the religion of the future. Note this passage has been censored by Platina since at least 2004 (see page 184 of a recent edition)

[@seraphimdunn]

This man brought me to Orthodoxy. I am so grateful to him for his diligence and devotion to the faith.

[@gideon4773]

Seraphim Rose was a vocal critic of the New Calendar movement in the Orthodox Church. He believed that the adoption of the Gregorian calendar was a departure from the traditional practices of the Church and a sign of spiritual decline. In his writings, Rose argued that the New Calendar was a compromise with the secular world and a rejection of the Church's unique identity. He emphasized the importance of preserving the Julian calendar as a symbol of the Church's continuity with the saints and martyrs of the past. Rose also criticized the New Calendar movement for its ecumenical tendencies and its willingness to engage in dialogue with other Christian denominations. He argued that such ecumenism was a betrayal of the Church's Orthodox faith and a threat to its unity. Overall, Rose's writings on the New Calendar were characterized by a strong sense of traditionalism and a deep concern for the preservation of Orthodox orthodoxy. His views on the subject remain influential among Old Calendar Orthodox Christians today.

[@orthodox1717]

Great video from a Holy Saint. Pray for us, Blessed Fr. Seraphim Rose! ☦️

[@yourneighbour3309]

Wow I just realised you're close to 100k. So glad to see it. Thank you so much for these amazing videos Fr.

[@gideon4773]

Seraphim Rose was a vocal critic of the New Calendar movement in the Orthodox Church. He believed that the adoption of the Gregorian calendar was a departure from the traditional practices of the Church and a sign of spiritual decline. In his writings, Rose argued that the New Calendar was a compromise with the secular world and a rejection of the Church's unique identity. He emphasized the importance of preserving the Julian calendar as a symbol of the Church's continuity with the saints and martyrs of the past. Rose also criticized the New Calendar movement for its ecumenical tendencies and its willingness to engage in dialogue with other Christian denominations. He argued that such ecumenism was a betrayal of the Church's Orthodox faith and a threat to its unity. Overall, Rose's writings on the New Calendar were characterized by a strong sense of traditionalism and a deep concern for the preservation of Orthodox orthodoxy. His views on the subject remain influential among Old Calendar Orthodox Christians today.

[@King_Immanuel]

This reads like an AI summary lol

[@gideon4773]

@@King_Immanuel 😆 " Gemini bot summarize these thoughts formally"

[@eldermillennial8330]

Julian Christmas is on January 8th this year. It will be on the 9th in 2152, 10th 2280, so on. In 3,840 years Christmas will be in February and Pascha will be in June. I pray that God sends us an authoritative Orthodox Emperor to fix this long before then, but I fear that many Old Calendarists will be so paranoid by then that only if they get to crown him themselves will they accept his authority to change anything.

[@alancaplotbozard]

J'avais vraiment besoin de cette vidéo. Merci infiniment! Que le Seigneur vous bénisse

[@nunucee8403]

Beautiful quality

[@apostolosnikolis5281]

The movement that started in 1924, they have priests and monks that lack the apostolic succession. That means their priests aren't ordained. You need three established priests in order to be ordained priest, they couldn't find them and suddenly one of them left to America, returned and said that he is now a priest, without any evidence. Then he, by himself ordained others, which like I said before 3 priests are required and then the created their own version of church and cut themselves/schismatised from the orthodox church.

[@andersongoncalves3387]

It is clear Fr. Seraphim is speaking of certain groups who possessed a "zeal not according to not knowledge" (eg - Matthewites) but he is definitely not condemning all OC as Fr. Peter does. At 3:06 he even says "One of these groups [the Florinities] have a position similar to the Russian Church Abroad". Fr. Seraphim's support for the OC can be seen very clearly by looking at his writings. Here's just a few snippets: " All the people we know in Greece are in the Auxentios Synod-Dr. Kalomiros, Father Theodoritos, Esphigmenou Monastery, etc., and the Russians we know on Mt. Athos warn us against the Matthewites. We should be very careful with regard to them, no matter what “reasonable explanations” we might hear about them. May God grant us to understand each other with the heart and not just the brain." Letter 172 "The fire of true Orthodoxy is still alive in many places: in the Catacomb Church of enslaved Russia, in the persecuted *True Orthodox Christians of Greece [old calendrist]*, in the maligned Russian Church Outside of Russia, in the Zealots of Mt. Athos." - Father Seraphim Rose, "The Zealots of Mt. Athos" (1972 edition of "The Orthodox Word") "With regard to “jurisdictions,” we are in full communion with the Greek Old-Calendarist jurisdiction of Archbishop Auxentios in Athens and with the Catacomb Church in Russia; with other jurisdictions our relations are strained, and in some cases broken altogether (owing to the sad history of 20th-century Orthodoxy, outlined above). " Letter 253, 1978 "They are not carried away by the movement of apostasy...but continue to be rooted in the holy and saving faith of Holy Orthodoxy...Many of them continue to follow the bishops of the few jurisdictions that have taken a strong stand against the apostasy of our time: the Catacomb church of Russia, the Russian Church Outside of Russia, and the True Orthodox Christians of Greece (Old Calendrist of Greece)." - 1979 edition of Orthodoxy and the religion of the future. Note this passage has been censored by Platina since at least 2004 (see page 184 of a recent edition) "If the worst does happen, and Fr. Panteleimon goes to the Mathewites, then we will probably have to publish an attack, against the Mathewites as an error “on the right hand,” with True Orthodoxy standing between the modernists on the one hand and the legalist fanatics on the other hand. But if Fr. P. does leave the Synod, it will be very difficult for us zealots who remain, because as you know some of our bishops are trying to maintain communion with “ecumenical Orthodoxy,” which is a disastrous and fatal path." Letter 184 “Against this loss of savor of Orthodoxy there has arisen one great movement of protest in the 20th Century: That of the True-Orthodox Christians whether of Russia, Greece, Mount Athos, or the Orthodox Diaspora, Among these True-Orthodox Christians are to be found the authentic Orthodox confessors and martyrs of our times.”-The Catacomb Tikhonite Church 1974 (Pages 242-243)

[@RaptorLlama]

It is clear he is not condemning this or that "group" or synod, but a mentality generally speaking. And this mentality, which is, to put it briefly, the view that all of the Mainline Church as entirely outside the Church, all but dominates the modern old calendarist movement, at least online, with the same if not a greater intensity as the ecumenist mentality dominates some of the (mostly hierarchies) Mainline Churches. In person, there are some more moderates, at least among the laity; I have met GOC-K laity that venerate Sts. Porphyrios and Paisios and more of those more recent saints "on the other side" as it were.

[@andersongoncalves3387]

@@RaptorLlama By your own admission this seems to be an issue with the online discord and not the reality. People have the identical complaint about world Orthodoxy. I am in the GOC-K. We are supermajority. Our synod (as well our sister churches of Bulgaria, Romania, and Russia) takes the position that we are in the Church since we have maintained the faith and traditions unblemished. We neither affirm nor deny the status or gracefulness of the mainstream churches since they have done very heretical things such as join the WCC, lift the anathemas against the latins, and commemorate the pope. This mentality is clearly not what Fr. Seraphim talks about in this audio clip. This is a very similar stance of ROCOR in Fr. Seraphim's time. “The Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia considers the introduction of the new calendar as a mistake, bringing irregularity into the life of the Church and in the final end causing a schism. Therefore, she did not accept it, does not accept it, and will not accept it and avoids concelebration with the new calendarists. As to the question regarding the presence or non-existence of grace among the new calendarists, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia does not regard itself or any local Church as having the authority to reach a final decision, since a definitive ruling in this matter can be made only by a properly convoked, competent Ecumenical Council, with the indispensable participation of the free Church of Russia.” 17/25 September 1974.

[@RaptorLlama]

@@andersongoncalves3387 if a priest in your church were to refer to a "Mainline" jurisdiction let's say as an "Orthodox Church" without qualifier (as Fr. Seraphim does in this video), and were to commune laity of these jurisdictions, and dissuaded members of other jurisdictions from joining the GOC, would they face no disciplinary measures for these actions, as was the case with Fr. Seraphim's actions? Remember in his time, the "lifting of anathemas" and the joining of the WCC had already happened.

[@andersongoncalves3387]

​@@RaptorLlamaWe would never discourage someone to join us because we know we possess the fullness of grace. The Orthodoxy of the EP and MP is dubious so why would we feel comfortable sending people there? Fr. Seraphim did the same thing by forbidding his spirtual children from stepping foot in an OCA church. Metropolitan Philaret rebuked people who would commune OCA laity instead of proselytizing them (see his letter to Abbess Magdalena). We also wouldnt commune someone from an ecumenist church since we are not in communion with them. As for those clergy who hypothetically did those things? I don't know, you would have to ask one of our bishops. I know the abuse of giving communion to new calendrists has happened at odd times by Father (later Metropolitan) Pavlos of Astoria who tried to take a pastoral approach with those who didn't know these issues.

[@RaptorLlama]

@@andersongoncalves3387 Fr. Seraphim did not do the same thing; that's the whole point. He forbid his spiritual children IN ROCOR (usually converts etc) from communing with the OCA. To be clear, he didn't encourage non Orthodox to join another jurisdiction, but for members already of other jurisdictions, like the Antiochian youth that is now a priest, he sometimes outright discouraged them from joining ROCOR, and other times, as with who is now Metropolitan Jonah, he, knowing he was in the OCA, did not proselytize him, but simply (ultimately prophetically) told him not to expect to be able to change the OCA, but then qualified it with "ROCOR has problems too." So, to my point, Fr. Seraphim's actions, were they done in your synod today, would surely be a cause of great scandal and outrage, and may even have landed him in trouble. Despite Metropolitan Philaret's position that you noted, it doesn't seem he bothered Fr. Seraphim about what he was doing; he may have not been aware of it, but whatever the case, we are talking about Fr. Seraphim and whether he was "True Orthodox" in the modern sense of the term (as opposed to Fr. Seraphim's own, different use of the term), not Metropolitan Philaret. It is simple: if his actions and writings would get him in hot water with any old calendarist synod today (they already were getting him in hot water with the more "super correct" of his day)-to wit: communing members of ALL jurisdictions (which he said he was doing multiple times in his letters), referring to the other jurisdictions as Orthodox Churches, and giving members of other jurisdictions the impression they were Orthodox both by dissuading them from ROCOR and not telling them to flee their jurisdiction-then you have your answer as to who he is actually aligned with.

[@mitso84]

We are told to follow the saints. We are told to distance ourselves from bishops who preach heresy, yet criticize those who seek to follow by calling them fanatical zealots. A calendar change is a change in holy tradition. "Holy Tradition is the very church; without the Holy Tradition the church does not exist. Those who deny the Holy Tradition deny the church and the preaching of the Apostles." - Saint Nektarios of Aegina "Who does not follow the Church traditions on Holy Pasha and calendar the way they were handed to us by the Seven Holy Ecumenical councils, which established them for us to follow, but wants to follow Gregorian Pascha and Calendar, he -since, like the godless astronomers, is confronting all the Holy Synod decrees and wants to change or weaken them -Anathema on him, removal from the Church of Christ and gathering of believers." - Council of Jerusalem 1583 , later ratified by the Ecumenical Patriarch Jeremiah

[@Lola-l6h9u]

Orthodoxy never followed the Gregorian calendar, it is revised Julian which is not enforced on Eastern Orthodoxy, in Jerusalem and Mount Athos, Russia and many others, they continue the old Julian. Therefore this anathema does not apply and has never been applied by the brothers upon antiochian and Greek. In fact, the Russians support the Antiochian patriarchate who have fallen into worse heresy such as communing faithful of the Catholicism tradition.

[@KulturKampf777]

Great ☦️

[@YoungPenitent]

Congrats on 100k!

[@Sunrise000x]

"Many of them follow the bishops of the few Orthodox jurisdictions that have taken strong stands against the apostasy of our times: the Catacomb Church of Russia, the Russian Church Outside of Russia, the True Orthodox Christians (Old Calendarists) of Greece." Father Seraphim Rose - Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future PS: This part was edited out of newer version of the book because it doesn't fit World Orthodox Narrative

[@jenkinsmatthew]

What chapter and page of the book was it located in?

[@andersongoncalves3387]

@@jenkinsmatthew In the 1979 edition (pdf can be found online), that passage is on page 220. On a 2004+ edition it SHOULD be on page 184 but they censored it out.

[@user-vv1do1wg1j]

Fr Seraphim Rose also said similar things about certain bishops in WO; i cant quote but i saw it recently maybe someone else can.

[@EnochStultz]

Sorry I'm dumb. Can you explain what he's talking about in this quote?

[@momosyzlak6660]

​​@@EnochStultz He is talking about Orthodoxy and the religion of the future Orthodoxy he explains is the apostolic genuine/true church which keeps the traditions which have been given, wether by word or by letter. The church of Christ Compared to the new globalist United religion which is emerging The world council of Churches, WCC. In this quote he lists the Orthodox people and churches who are resisting and fighting and being persecuted by the Globalist, freemasonic, ecumenist modernists. The quote is controversial because he Is listing "schismatic" Orthodox groups and churches So fr. Seraphim rose, was a "schismatic" "zealot" "extremist" But many modern people take his texts, out of context to fulfil their agenda Like Orthodox ethos is doing with this video.

[@jonathanbritt6418]

It's good that the Orthodox Traditionalist channel is going to be putting out an interview with an Old Calendarist priest who was a novice at Platina.

[@jonathanbritt6418]

Another spiritual son of Fr Seraphim's who "went to the Old Calendarists" was Father Vladimir Anderson. You can read about how he was closely involved with the Platina Fathers in the biography of Fr Seraphim Rose. He joined ROCA-Agafangel who is in communion with the GOC-K under Metropolitan Demetrius.

[@ryrocks9487]

Or you can see where the spiritual Sons like Father Paul Baba went. Or where Fr Herman's spiritual sons ended up.

[@jonathanbritt6418]

@@ryrocks9487 I'll personally stick with the side that rejects the WCC and praying with Catholics.

[@NFTUOrthodoxApologetics]

@@jonathanbritt6418 There's also Bp Sergius of the GOC-K who corresponded with Fr Seraphim and joined the True Orthodox after his repose.

[@ryrocks9487]

@@Death2Compromise Wow, literally no one said that. Are ad hominems still the best that Old Calendarists can do when given facts?

[@VincentTamer]

Thank you for posting this, because there is an Old Calendarist group quoting Father Seraphim to back up their claims.

[@shovelleator4738]

I didn’t leave a puritanical evangelical background 25 years ago to fall prey to the prelest this monk Fr Peter speaks of was possessed by. One of only ten and you don’t think maybe you’re the problem? I left all that behind with sola scriptura. Thankyou Father. Over and over the deeper I walk in Orthodoxy the more I see both and… I liked the comment above too about WANTING the western confessions to repent and join us. Our desire should be to see the scales lifted from all men’s eyes …

[@thestudyofstuff]

Thank you ☦

[@momosyzlak6660]

I am an "old calendarist" "zealot" "schismatic" Traditionalist Orthodox Christian I would like a sincere genuine disucssion about this topic These videos that Orthodox Ethos posts about me and my church are very disingenuine My GOC Greek Church was personally given an old Russian Church by ROCOR, when they took in the greek old Calendairists This church is still being used today by the GOC My clergy converted to Orthodoxy and were directly under St. Philaret. By his work and his sorrowful epistles I would like a sincere conversation about this topic please.

[@maresrefala3534]

Backed. Why do all the Internetodox refuse to engage in dialogue with us???

[@momosyzlak6660]

@@maresrefala3534 "The chaff will be separated from the wheat" Those who care about Truth, Tradition, and the Faith And those who are indifferent to the truth, Like st. Philaret said "the greatest sin of our age is Indifference to the Truth" My priest taught me that, Our consciences are our guides in this matter, When you learn about the WCC, when you learn about the history of ROCOR, or the miracle of the Cross, or when you see the clear Globalism, freemasonry, modernism, progressivism and ecumenism. When you see these things, you cannot unsee them. And it won't matter that you are called, (schismatic, conspiracy theorist, extremist, zealot) It will matter that your conscience is at peace The truth will set you free, The lies and deceit and sin of man. Will be shined away by the truth and light of God

[@yankaufmann9715]

I am a new orthodox in Switzerland in the Romanian Orthodox Church. I don't understand what is wrong with the new calendar. But it is not a problem for me to think there is 2 calendars.

[@OrthodoxEthos]

Write me at [e-mail] - Fr. Peter What is it in particular you want to discuss? Tell me how it is “disingenuous”?

[@frankhorrigan4030]

@@yankaufmann9715 it’s more than the calendars, the mainline Orthodox Clergy left the faith almost 100yrs ago, they tolerate and practice ecumenism. Lifting the anathemas off the Catholics and praying with them.

[@TheNarrowGateOfficial]

I used to be looking into old calendarism and considered joining it however I also saw it as untenable. However i think you need to do an in depth video on him because his opinions towards the old calendarists were not black and white as both the old and new calendarist claims and did fluctuate. Upon his death he did not hold to the opinion that the state church had concerning old calendarists, and neither did he hold to the old calendarist position about the state churches.

[@NFTUOrthodoxApologetics]

He was still in communion with the True Orthodox and no amount of verbal gymnastics will change that.

[@TheNarrowGateOfficial]

@@NFTUOrthodoxApologetics Yes, yet they also were still in communion with other churches. And by the old calendarist paradigm father seraphim rose in saying the policy of staying in communion with the eccumenical movement while not participating in it explicitly was a good standard, Is heresy

[@NFTUOrthodoxApologetics]

@@TheNarrowGateOfficial He wasn't in communion with the ecumenical movement and ROCOR was not in communion with virtually all of World Orthodoxy at the time of his repose, and certainly after the anathema against ecumenism. The Serbian communion fluctuated and Old Calendarists were still celebrating in Jerusalem. This is a false comparison.

[@momosyzlak6660]

@@TheNarrowGateOfficial Godbless you brother, I am in the GOC Traditionalist church We love our Orthodox Brothers and sisters in Christ We just hope that they see the madness of the WCC, and leave any bishops who pray and are a part of such a globalist ecumenists organization We say that, If only people knew how evil those bishops and patriarchs are. If their evil was exposed. Then everyone would leave them or do worse to them Justifying the heresy of Bishops who break cannons and who destroy our faith, by their authority alone, is not what the saints and church fathers taught us to do. Our faith has been sold out and is being destroyed. The devil seeks to destroy us I hope you look into the miracle of the cross in Athens 1925 and I hope you read st. Philarets Sorrowful epistles These two things alone show the truth so clearly Godbless you, the Truth will set you free..

[@ephraimtheendtimessojourner]

@@NFTUOrthodoxApologeticsI am curious your take on why Fr. Seraphim communed Antiochians and even told one of his spiritual sons to stay with Antioch and not join ROCOR when that very spiritual son helped in founding a ROCOR parish that is still there today? The spiritual sons I personally know belong to Antioch, OCA (Albanian), OCA, ROCOR, and even GOARCH. I just find it fascinating that none of their experiences and reflections about this holy hieromonk align with the seemingly official True Orthodox narrative (held as the only accurate historical witness) and any time I've tried engaging with my one former GOC acquaintance and his supporters all I received was insults and the usual propaganda. Is it possible Fr. Seraphim's position changed or do you think all these spiritual children, most of whom are WO clergy, are just lying and embellishing, etc?

[@twitch8703]

I am apart of the Serbian archdiocese in America and we use the old calender, we are not considered old calenderist, and we are canonical, could someone explain if this message is geared to all who are on the old calender( canonical or not) or is it geared towards the “old calenderist” schismatic group?

[@maresrefala3534]

This message is geared towards the “old calendarists” of Greece and the countries that forced the calendar change on the people The Genuine Orthodox Christians of Greece and the old ROCOR and Russian Catacomb churches Serbia and Russia are the last countries in Europe to use the Church Julian Calendar Ukraine changed it just last year The situation and video is about Modernism, globalism, progressivism, and ecumenism Affecting and destroying Orthodoxy.

[@twitch8703]

@@maresrefala3534 I see, I wouldn't say it's destroying Orthodoxy. Truth always prevails, ecumenism may influence people to go down a wrong path but it won’t destroy Orthodoxy. It will try but like all the other Herseys, it will get exposed for what it is.

[@maresrefala3534]

@@twitch8703 Godbless you my brother In Christ However I have to respectfully say that the situation is worse than you think Every mainline orthodox jurisdiction is a member and prays in the World councils of churches Orthodoxy was fundamentally infiltrated by globalist Freemasons This is shown by their actions: The calendar was changed in the 1920 For no reason other than to unite with the west and Roman Catholics Then in the 1960s the anathema was lifted against the RCC, basically removing them of heresy and considering them a sister church Rome did the same vice versa with Vatican 2 And interfaith prayer has been happening ever since the 60s Look into the world council of churches, and look into st. Metropolitan philarets sorrowful epistles

[@OrthodoxEthos]

Fr. Seraphim (Rose) was on the Old Calendar and was certainly not against using the Old Calendar. His criticisms were aimed at those who, when the New Calendar was introduced in some Orthodox churches, not only broke communion with those Orthodox churches but also declared them to be devoid of grace and other fanatical claims. The overzealous Old Calendarists broke into a multitude of schisms that have not been healed to this day.

[@twitch8703]

@@OrthodoxEthos I thought so, just needed some clarification. Thank you Orthodoc Ethos team 🙏🏿

[@exploringorthodoxy]

Prophetic.

[@ryrocks9487]

Precisely!

[@JoeSmith-b9v]

It's not prophetic, just a reasonable analysis of actual events.

[@kakehavata]

“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ *“‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest.* At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’” (Matt. 13:27-30)

[@daeshawnmustard]

*St. Seraphim of Platina

[@MRS.__GS__45__US]

Amen 🙏☦️

[@ServantofGod-zj3jd]

The extreme zealots that he is talking about is the Matthewites. The main GOC Church was in Communion with ROCOR until 2006.

[@blockpartyvintage1568]

@@ServantofGod-zj3jd and they keep splintering like Fr mentioned in the video

[@3devdas777]

At the time Fr. Seraphim said this the Matthewites and Florinites both held to a “no grace on the New Calendar” extreme position. The later Synod in Resistance that ROCOR entered into communion with was not even in existence until after Fr. Seraphim’s repose.

[@ServantofGod-zj3jd]

@@blockpartyvintage1568 Not really. They actually started reuniting. Some of the groups you can't take seriously. It's only one main schism. Look into the situation, 90% is on one side, the one that was with ROCOR. How could anyone take the Matthewites seriously at this point. They're the divided ones.

[@ServantofGod-zj3jd]

@@3devdas777 And the majority is under Archbishop Kallinikos, and they don't hold to the "no-grace" thing.

[@andersongoncalves3387]

@@blockpartyvintage1568 Incorrect. There has actually been much reunification over the past decade or so among the Florinities. A huge split was healed in 2014. The OC of Romania and Bulgaria have millions of people and have had no schism (to my knowledge).

[@dustinwalker8152]

Reading through this comment section is disheartening. It's heartbreaking to see the love for others growing cold, especially given what that signifies. Lord have mercy.

[@momosyzlak6660]

@@dustinwalker8152 I love my Orthodox Brothers and sisters In Christ But above all, I love the Lord our saviour, I Love the Truth And to see the Truth of the faith, brought into the filth that is the World council of Churches To see the holy traditions not cared about when people don't care about the calendar And worst of all to see the justification of this madness by appealing to the authority of bishops, as if that negates the evil that they do I love my people, I love the truth But my people must awaken to this heresy and evil that is destroying our faith I won't let the faith of my ancestors be destroyed by modernist, globalist, ecumenists And that is real Love.

[@RaptorLlama]

​@@momosyzlak6660Fr. Seraphim communed laity in WCC member churches and told them not to join ROCOR. If your view is Orthodox in jurisdictions in WCC = automatic heretics, that's obviously not what Fr. Seraphim thought. As much as he opposed the WCC membership (and many in those Churches oppose WCC membership).

[@ryrocks9487]

@@RaptorLlama 100%

[@user-vv1do1wg1j]

​@@RaptorLlama Fr Seraphim Rose was in ROCOR, in communion with the GOC. some of his spiritual children are TO today, Also St Philaret was TO (venerated in parts of ROCOR) St John Maximovitch concelebrated with the greek old calendarists TO are our brothers and sisters in Christ and their criticisms are correct also Fr Seraphim Rose here talks about one matthewite group.

[@user-vv1do1wg1j]

Fr, St, Seraphim Rose called the OCA schismatic

[@T_Wozna]

Can you please release a video on St John the Wonderworker's criteria for union with the MP? You can find this in History of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad by St John. The viewers would love it.

[@OrthodoxEthos]

Is your comment based on Met. Demetrius’ recent video where he attributed to St. John of SF the words of Monk Vsevolod on p.47 of the text he referenced?

[@T_Wozna]

@@OrthodoxEthos Yes. Did Monk Vsevolod make that up himself?

[@T_Wozna]

@@OrthodoxEthos I looked at the book itself. You’re right. St John didn’t write that section. Thanks for the clarification.

[@NFTUOrthodoxApologetics]

@@OrthodoxEthos Well, we know that St John wanted no union with the MP in the 1960's at his repose until its path was changed. Are you therefore confirming this was also ROCOR's position in the 1990's when that was published?

[@frankschaeffer8153]

The real question is where did Fr. Seraphim see the royal road? Fr. Seraphim's definition of "super-correctness" is for (what would in the future become) HOCNA and for the Matthewites. Those were and are fringe in the OC movement. Of course one has to wonder if Fr. Seraphim would have been ok with going under such "eminent" figures as Patriarch Barthomew aka the green patriarch, or Patriarch Kirill aka Mikhailov, or Archbishop Elpidophoros. Here the answer can only be: absolutely not, but that's not something OE will address. It would also be nice to address how the ROCOR's position after what Fr. Seraphim mentions in the talks *changed.* How the ROCOR did actually cut ties with *all* the Patriarchates, as they *all* joined the WCC. And how the ROCOR always had cordial relations and would actually give canonical leaves to clergy who wished to join the GOC even when there were no concelebrations. Besides the HSiR aka Cyprianites, Old Calendar Romanians, and Old Calendar Bulgarians of course, who the ROCOR had full Communion with (almost) until the fateful union with the MP. But now they're all just graceless heretics (and I guess the ROCOR *would be* had they not followed Putin's call for unity. Most certainly those of the ROCOR who didn't go along with the union are) ...

[@MR-ChristIsKing]

@@frankschaeffer8153 Is this THE Frank Schaeffer; AKA the "Orthodox atheist" and stark raving liberal?

[@frankschaeffer8153]

@@MR-ChristIsKing think again

[@St.MosestheBlack]

Please consider having a recorded discussion with Fr Joseph Suaiden so we can put this to rest.

[@andersongoncalves3387]

Seconded

[@NFTUOrthodoxApologetics]

They'll never do it, guys but thanks

[@St.MosestheBlack]

@@NFTUOrthodoxApologetics I just don’t understand why Fr Peter wouldn’t be willing to engage with you. Hell he just did an entire interview with Ruslan, a Protestant that doesn’t even share the same faith.

[@T_Wozna]

Demons hate when the Truth is revealed. They hate it when what is in darkness is exposed and brought to the light.

[@ryrocks9487]

@@Death2CompromiseHow is he funded by the Church of Greece? Who revealed this to you? Or are you simply another Old Calendarist Sectarian spreading aspersions and lies to assassinate the character of clergymen who don’t follow your personal opinions?

[@stefanperju2238]

Where can can I find the version of 'Axion Estin' that you use at the end of your videos. It is very beautiful!

[@OrthodoxEthos]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ip2snmmKgK6SeJYsi=EtKYsrcberdiXdyX

[@stefanperju2238]

@@OrthodoxEthos Thank you so much!

[@Baklava33]

Greetings, why do new calendar orthodox commemorate the pope of Rome when its forbidden? I just do not understood the reasoning behind this or exuse sort of speek?

[@rachelarmstrong807]

Lord, preserve Your Church from these temptations of pride. Let us keep to the Royal Path and not be swayed to the right or left.

[@JoseTorres-np2nk]

Do you have more audios of San Serfin?

[@someguywithhair6439]

Was saint Serafim part of the russian church abroad?

[@OrthodoxEthos]

Yes

[@jacob6088]

6:13🎯

[@maresrefala3534]

Why on earth do you people hold up Fr Seraphim as an anti-traditionalist beacon? He reposed in communion with us 😅 Lord have mercy!

[@andersongoncalves3387]

For the same reason Platina censored Fr. Seraphim's writings. To keep people from knowing the truth and being set free.

[@panokostouros7609]

He's not anti-traditionalist. He's anti-delusion regardless of its traditional or liberal veneer

[@maresrefala3534]

@@panokostouros7609when I say Traditionalist, I’m referring to us; GOC, TO, etc.

[@T_Wozna]

@@andersongoncalves3387 If the truth was on their side, they wouldn't need to censor it. Oh, wait....

[@OrthodoxEthos]

Fr. Seraphim spoke against the fanatical belief that to be “traditionalist” means to anathematize and condemn those who are on the New Calendar, to condemn the Orthodox who are in communion with the Patriarchates, and to break into a multitude of sects that claim to be “true” while condemning those who disagree with themselves.

[@zerocool3466]

☦️☦️☦️

[@Josdamale]

Fully agree.

[@ScreamingReel500]

I hope someday the Eastern and Western Churches united. It was a theological, political and cultural differences that dragged out over many centuries. And almost 1000 years has passed and there is not a solution that works. Looks like at the end when the Anti-christ will unite people for a short time together in a religious deception when he brings out the solution to the world's problem. Keep us in your prayers.

[@waitingintheaether]

I'm new to Orthodoxy. What is the ROCOR controversy and why is it such a big deal? Also, why do some people not want to reunify with the Western church? Shouldn't coming together to sort out any confusion or inconsistencies, and ultimately, end the Schism be a priority for both the East and West?

[@user-vv1do1wg1j]

😂

[@maresrefala3534]

Good question! We orthodox Christian’s absolutely want unity with as many people and jurisdictions as possible However we must have unity in truth, and not unity for the sake of unity Orthodoxy is a beautiful, amazing faith It’s the fullness of Christianity. It is the Way The Truth and The Life, The western churches are radically different to us. Fundamentally at their core. We can’t unify with a faith that is not Christian It’s a harsh thing to say, but when you learn what exactly Orthodox Christianity is, you really see what we mean by this We love other “Christians” but they lost their connection to Christ and the church.

[@CenturionTheodore]

Precision of language. Us orthodox kin unifying with the western church implies that we as orthodox must meet them in the middle. We don’t need to do anything except teach people about the faith. The Orthodox Church unifying would be watering it down and we would be saying that all of the derivative church bodies whom separated from the church of the first 1000 years have a true path as a well. Which isn’t correct. What needs to happen is that the separated body of Rome needs to drop its ways and SUBMIT to the ways of the church of the first 1000 years. Dropping everything they have innovated. And all of romes derivatives would have to do the same. This isn’t likely because the modernists and Antichrist brigade have many converted into the new age lukewarm Christianity.

[@LadyMaria]

The only way is for the Roman church to come back to the Church.

[@waitingintheaether]

@@CenturionTheodore I understand this, and I don't think that truth should be compromised for comfort. But I almost feel like a lot of the things the East and West dispute could be settled through in-depth discussions--another Ecumenical Council, if you will. Pride, I think, is holding us back. What would the stance be, though, on adopting the Orthodox church adopting non-Eastern practices, like lay organizations from the Catholics, so long as they don't go against doctrine?

[@JoeSmith-b9v]

Of couse people are going to quote Orthodox sources to prove they are correct. The apostolic fathers quoted the Scriptures countless times to prove their points.

[@Alpha-Omega33]

This is true the right way is damaging true Orthodoxy. Because the Lord is waiting repentance all these years and if they were right, that there is no Grace left in the apostate Church (though pleroma is not possible), there wouldn’t be a door open for repentance. He gave even a command “do not harm the oil and the wine”. Until there is time, times and half a time. There is time for everything under the Sun. Time for repentance and time for the door to be shut. When this door is shut repentance is not possible. When the Sun turns to darkness for them and the Moon to blood. This time is soon. They will be dead if they don’t repent. Because the time for testing and tribulation for the Church is finishing. It will be gathering in the wilderness after the time is finished. Until then there is time. It is not limitless. “Within sixty-five years the fruitful (Ephraim) will be too shattered to be a people.” Isaiah 7:8. “If you don’t stand firm in your faith you won’t stand at all”. There are no figs on the fig tree. It is 59 years ever since the anathemas were lifted. For 62 weeks the city will be built again and the wall (Daniel 9:25) even in times of trouble. And 3 years the Lord will be coming to the tree looking for figs. Then it will be cut down if He finds only leaves. The city of Ephesus will be finished for 65 years. After it is built repentance of the Church is not possible. It will be abandoning the sinking ship. Whoever is left in this sinking ship - will be severely punished. Hanged on the fig tree as Judah. During this time people will seek death but won’t find it.

[@blockpartyvintage1568]

@@Alpha-Omega33 breh

[@user-yg2ms9od5s]

Fr. Peter, I’ve heard two GOC bishops now claim that Elder Ephraim requested to be received into the GOC close to his repose. Can you confirm or deny this?

[@andersongoncalves3387]

Elder Ephraim also had spirtual children who were OC and never told them to leave. So even these contemporary elders Fr. Peter quotes often didn't agree with his militant stance.

[@ServantofGod-zj3jd]

I doubt that. Who told you that?

[@OrthodoxEthos]

There are many such baseless rumors that people spread. People say these things because they are impossible to disprove. But, you would have to believe that all of Elder Ephraim’s closest disciples are unaware of this or are hiding this, which would be a major stretch.

[@rookycascade5029]

So then which Orthodox should I join?

[@LadyMaria]

The canonical Church.

[@andersongoncalves3387]

"The fire of true Orthodoxy is still alive in many places: in the Catacomb Church of enslaved Russia, in the persecuted *True Orthodox Christians of Greece [old calendrist]*, in the maligned Russian Church Outside of Russia, in the Zealots of Mt. Athos." - Father Seraphim Rose, "The Zealots of Mt. Athos" (1972 edition of "The Orthodox Word") "With regard to “jurisdictions,” we are in full communion with the Greek Old-Calendarist jurisdiction of Archbishop Auxentios in Athens and with the Catacomb Church in Russia; with other jurisdictions our relations are strained, and in some cases broken altogether (owing to the sad history of 20th-century Orthodoxy, outlined above). " Letter 253, 1978 "They are not carried away by the movement of apostasy...but continue to be rooted in the holy and saving faith of Holy Orthodoxy...Many of them continue to follow the bishops of the few jurisdictions that have taken a strong stand against the apostasy of our time: the Catacomb church of Russia, the Russian Church Outside of Russia, and the True Orthodox Christians of Greece (Old Calendrist of Greece)." - 1979 edition of Orthodoxy and the religion of the future. Note this passage has been censored by Platina since at least 2004 (see page 184 of a recent edition) “Against this loss of savor of Orthodoxy there has arisen one great movement of protest in the 20th Century: That of the True-Orthodox Christians whether of Russia, Greece, Mount Athos, or the Orthodox Diaspora, Among these True-Orthodox Christians are to be found the authentic Orthodox confessors and martyrs of our times.”-The Catacomb Tikhonite Church 1974 (Pages 242-243)

[@ryrocks9487]

@@andersongoncalves3387 And if you read later in his letters, you'll find that he thought the Zealots on Mount Athos were getting way out of hand, and were taking pride in making themselves into puritanical sects.

[@ServantofGod-zj3jd]

​@@ryrocks9487But, to be fair, I've heard that from goc bishops in Greece, and in America. And even the "Kelliotes" of Mount Athos don't like the Esphigmenou Monastery extremes. Metropolitan Demetrius tells people NOT to go to Esphigmenou.

[@ryrocks9487]

@@ServantofGod-zj3jd That's good of him. I'm very fond of Metropolitan Demetrius and I hope his Church follows his attitude in time(the sooner the better). Thanks for letting me know, btw.

[@ssavv-s21s]

These comments are so sad… I’m very anti ecumenism but these “true orthodox” are so hostile and schismatic. They like to cherry pick everything against ecumenism and they don’t cite anything about unity. Some have good intentions, most have fanatic delusion

[@OneOfTheAncients]

Greetings Dear. I agree. it's sad because both sides keep trying prove his right and who's wrong. neither side can agree and admit their own mistakes. back and forth you're right I'm wrong you're wrong I'm right. both sides have fallen into pride and delusion. it's obvious now! People often preach much and quote scriptures than completely do the opposite. this is how you know the passions are alive in all of us not one of us is safe from this temptation.

[@ryrocks9487]

Although they have definitely the attitude of sectarianism, we need to still be open and charitable to them, and pray for this division to end.

[@momosyzlak6660]

Godbless you brother, I'm sorry you've had that experience with us like this Orthodoxy as a whole has problems with young male converts representing us online The Orthodox participation in the world council of Churches is a debauchery of our faith Christ doesn't want globalist, Freemason, modernist, ecumenists. As his Shepard's and bishops

[@JoseSilva-dv3pg]

A good thing can't happen in a wrong way? What about the cross? Felix culpa!

[@panokostouros7609]

The Cross is self-sactificial, the best way possible

[@RBH614]

Why is this other Priest Peter taking part in this lecture?

[@Baklava33]

He's responding but this response can lead to pride too...the new calendars have much errors. let's pray for fr.peter so he he doesn't feel the need to respond to every single person. even if his wrong God bless him and let us forgive him

[@OrthodoxEthos]

He’s talking about Fr. Seraphim.

[@FrankFriedrich-lc6ie]

Isn't a saraphim an angel of the lord!! So how did you take that name???

[@OrthodoxEthos]

He took it from St. SERAPHIM of Sarov.

[@Lola-l6h9u]

How is the patriarch welcoming the pope a problem, do you want him to say no dont come? Did Christ not dine with tax collectors and harlots. There is a lot of propaganda here and I’m afraid Moscow is loving this, while at the same time attempting to reunite with the Copts outside of theological corrections

[@frankhorrigan4030]

Seraphim Rose was True Orthodox stop the propaganda.

[@FirstnameLastname-py3bc]

His spiritual children say something contrary, in fact they say so called true orthodox opposed him and regarded him as heretic until his death, then they recognized him a saint

[@frankhorrigan4030]

@@FirstnameLastname-py3bc sorry but that’s not correct at all.

[@FirstnameLastname-py3bc]

@@frankhorrigan4030 idk I trust his spiritual and godchildren

[@twitch8703]

I think your conflating being on the old calender and being an old calenderist. Those are two different things. For example i’m apart of the Serbian Archdiose of America and we are on the old calender and we are canonical. Holding to the old calender and thinking it's the calender we should follow is different then being an old calenderist.

[@andersongoncalves3387]

@@FirstnameLastname-py3bcBishop Cyprian of Fili wrote an article for “The Orthodox Word” which was featured in the January 1982 edition. Fr. Seraphim regularly corresponded with Chrysostym of Etna. I know of two spiritual children who are now priests in the GOC-Kalinikos. I have a hunch your sources are making the same error as Fr. Peter - trying to lump all old calendarist into one bucket and saying they’re all alike. also I would caution you on the “I trust his spiritual children”. Platina is known for censoring father Seraphim’s writings. They should not be blindly trusted.

[@TheOrthodoxStreetPreacher]

The problems with the leadership of the Platina monastery falsifying Fr. Seraphim's writings are as follows. 1. Falsifying someones writings without their permission, especially the writing of a priest-monk, is exceedingly immoral and unethical. They lied and resorted to intentional deception. St. Paul instructs: "Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another." (Eph. 4:25). 2. Their lie is not an accurate reflection of who Fr. Seraphim truly was. Rather, it is an ideological and propagandistic rendition of Fr. Seraphim, not rooted in reality. 3. Fr. Seraphim would never have endorsed the altering of his writing. 4. Where does the sense of entitlement from the Platina monastery come from, audaciously thinking that they have the right to do this and invade Fr. Seraphim's space? 5. The Platina monastery could not allow Fr. Seraphim's supportive statements about Old Calendarists groups, because his canonization in mainstream Orthodoxy would become problematic-- if there is evidence that he endorsed TOC groups. They are only interested in presenting a certain version of Fr. Seraphim. 6. The god of a religion who blesses this kind of action, is morally defective, not the God of Christianity. 7. Since the "Orthodox" believe in resorting to deception, when they think it suits their purpose, how do we know that they haven't always done this, consequently completely changing the Christian religion? These kind of deceptions open a Pandora's box of problems. 8. The Platina monastery falsification indicates that they hold to a pragmatic view of truth (whatever works is good). The problem with the pragamatic view of truth is that if truth is defined by what works, it would be difficult to discover what is true since identical ideas, conceptions, and propositions that contain truth value yield differing conclusions for different people. 9. The Platina monastery used the "pastoral concerns" argument, which is fallacious (appeal to piety), because it assumes the paradigm and validity of mainstream Orthodoxy (circular reasoning). Where does one draw a line with this kind of argument? "Pastoral concerns" could lead to the justification of all kinds of sins. 10. People online are claiming that the Platina monastery also omitted the writing of St. John Maximovitch. People are only concerned with who Fr. Seraphim truly was, not lies and ideological propaganda.

[@ryrocks9487]

You're preaching to the choir here. No one is supporting censorship.

[@blockpartyvintage1568]

Old Calendarists take the L (they love to use Fr Seraphim when it suites them) I always ask well then why didnt he go Old Calendar then? No answer

[@NFTUOrthodoxApologetics]

The answer is "he died in communion with the Old Calendarists." Nice "L" you have there.

[@ajtsanvk]

Same is goes for st. John Maximovitch.. :) why he wasnt GOC? :D

[@andersongoncalves3387]

Actually, no. Fr. Seraphim was in ROCOR at a time when ROCOR was in communion with the so-called "Old calendarists". So in a way he did "go Old Calendar". It would have been redundant to go to the GOC since they were a sister church. If that isn't enough he praised the OC in his writings. Read the January 1982 (nine months before he died) edition of "The Orthodox Word" where he presents the "True Orthodox Church of Romania". There are other passages such as: "The fire of true Orthodoxy is still alive in many places: in the Catacomb Church of enslaved Russia, in the persecuted *True Orthodox Christians of Greece [old calendrist]*, in the maligned Russian Church Outside of Russia, in the Zealots of Mt. Athos." - Father Seraphim Rose, "The Zealots of Mt. Athos" (1972 edition of "The Orthodox Word") or "They are not carried away by the movement of apostasy...but continue to be rooted in the holy and saving faith of Holy Orthodoxy...Many of them continue to follow the bishops of the few jurisdictions that have taken a strong stand against the apostasy of our time: the Catacomb church of Russia, the Russian Church Outside of Russia, and the True Orthodox Christians of Greece (Old Calendrist of Greece)." - 1979 edition of Orthodoxy and the religion of the future. Note this passage has been censored by Platina since at least 2004 (see page 184 of a recent edition) or "With regard to “jurisdictions,” we are in full communion with the Greek Old-Calendarist jurisdiction of Archbishop Auxentios in Athens and with the Catacomb Church in Russia; with other jurisdictions our relations are strained, and in some cases broken altogether (owing to the sad history of 20th-century Orthodoxy, outlined above). " Letter 253, 1978

[@blockpartyvintage1568]

@andersongoncalves3387 so since he died not in communion with the Old Calendarists did he die without grace? Yall are so goofy bro.

[@T_Wozna]

@@ajtsanvkSt John was one of the biggest supporters of the True Orthodox in Greece. In fact, when the ROCOR synod was scrutinizing Abp Leonty of Chile, he (along with Abp Averky), defended Abp Leonty’s consecration of bishops for the True Orthodox in Greece. If you read St John’s history of ROCOR, he flat out said that in order for union with MP to even be a consideration, 4 things needed to happen but I’ll just mention 2 is them for context: 1. Concelebrating with New Calendarist and ecumenist churches needed to cease. 2. MP needed to rid itself of all the modernism within the bosom. The reason why St John never joined the GOC while he was alive because he knew that ROCOR was preserving the Orthodox confession of Faith, which is exactly what True Orthodoxy is. St John had the same exact zeal and mindset. Zeal tempered with patience, but he was a zealot for the Truth.

[@JoeSmith-b9v]

The Orthodox often use the term rationalism. But there's a difference between being rational and rationalism. God expects us to be rational, since we are made in his image, and he endowed himan beings with rationality.

[@JoeSmith-b9v]

Fr. Seraphim was one of the best priests, but not one of the best saints. Don't forget, he's not even canonized by any legitimate Orthodox Church. It's disrespectful to the canonized saints and blasphemy against God to elevate him above those God has raised.