Our RV Frame is Cracking!!!

[@jimcollins8097]

Found this about 4 yrs ago on my forest river lippert frame. There was actually a link on lippert website on how to repair. Rv shop that fixed ours added square tubing across the body to the 4 sets of spring hangers. This stiffens the frame and reduces bending forces on web and flange of the I beam

[@HereWyoming]

This is a lippert problem that has been happening for years on all brands. Is from axle hangers flexing the frame because the frame isn't properly supported where the axles are attached to the frame.

[@JeffinTD]

V shaped brackets added to the hangers might also spread the load

[@gerardplank3780]

Just saw your vid like your approach, do for yourself as the manufacturers are absent on defects. As a certified rv tech I am a separate set of eyes for the folks I help. Having owned over 18 different types of RV's over 40 years gives me a different perspective of what to look for and we all never stop learning.

[@arewethereyetshow]

That’s how I found it. A Certified RV tech was repacking the bearings and checking brakes. He was just not a welder. But a second set of eyes is invaluable!

[@arewethereyetshow]

🎉 Well I am amazed but they asked for photos and an invoice, sent them on to Lippert and Lippert is cutting a check for the repair amount! They are even mailing it to my next long stop. Grand Design was very responsive. I am a bit surprised I must say!🥳🎈🍾

[@kaivonmortazavi8656]

Its great that you caught this in time before larger more expensive issues developed - but thats just 1/2 the fix. You need to find out why. The frame maybe a bit on the weaker side for the weight of the camper and you can help that with better equalizers on the eye spring connection between the axle or getting something like a MORyde X factor cross bar to reduce frame flex. However, you need to weigh your trailer with the typical travel load (water in tanks?, propane, all your normal suppliers etc. then weigh just your truck by itself - the difference being just the total weight of the trailer and all the stuff you are carrying. You maybe surprised that you are close to or over the weight limit of the axles and tongue weight combined or close to it….. then just add a few bumpy roads at highway speeds and the issues begin. Good luck.

[@arewethereyetshow]

I agree. At the end of this most recent trip I will re-weigh the rig. Previously we were within specs and since then I have replaced the old Absorption refrigerator with a 12 volt version, much lighter, so I don't think I am over but I will check. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@housesOTR]

I have the same model. I'll check it out tomorrow. Thanks and God bless.

[@olbluetundra881]

Yeah. My 5vr is a 2014. We started having problems last year. A roof leak. Some delam. When you look at new though. Doing a repair and rebuild. I really like my layout to. My wife want new. I want to do a makeover. Leave some opinions. It's a fr 293rex big window

[@arewethereyetshow]

I have to say it is almost always better to repair than replace. It does get to a point where these things just wear out but with the cost of new rigs, I agree, repair until you can't anymore.

[@MrKrusher68]

It's good that you found that crack but how many people that have RV's actually look? What a crazy thing to happen and what a great opportunity to get such a great welder out there.

[@arewethereyetshow]

Yes it really taught be to be more aware and inspect more often. In the RV world, ignorance is NOT bliss!

[@zacharybrown6111]

Great video!! Thanks for this information

[@arewethereyetshow]

Thanks I appreciate that!

[@henryford2736]

You have to check the axles weight rating get on CAT scale and make sure you're not overweight on the trailer axles and also the truck rear axle.

[@hughturner1940]

Seeing the picture of the weld he done , it sucks, I was a welder for 45 years and if i had put a weld up that looked like that i would have been fired and someone else would have come cut it out and re done it.

[@bobconner422]

Was thinking the same thing but didn't want to be that guy 😮

[@cdmx215able]

Snot

[@sferg9582]

Ummmmm yeah. I was criticized for laying better welds than that in high school. On the other side, I wish him success in his business since he's willing to do work that no one else is willing to do. Try to find a millennial to do this kind of work.....good luck.

[@JeffinTD]

I didn’t want to be that guy either, but yeah.

[@dangeroustoman]

Ya I'd like to see the welds under that plate. 😮

[@randalyates5605]

Wow i see all the videos of people having problems and some major, knock on wood we have owned our camper for almost 2.5 yrs and put over 7k miles on it only warranty problem was a latch on the screen door and a window off. We love our Mesa Ridge 22fb.

[@TheFriskyClicker]

May be putting to much weight on that frame with the hitch based on wear the cracks are located (plus Lippert frames tend to be lower quality side of things). Most likely this is where the argument the company argue with warranty, the weight distribution hitch put to much weight on it and therefor voids the warranty. Glad to see you got it fixed and hope you can recover some of the costs!

[@arewethereyetshow]

Well I don't know of many people who run travel trailers without sway control and weight distribution. If this is the case the manufacturers should state in their documentation NOT to use weight distribution hitches or at least certify ones they will stand behind. But they won't do that because the first lawsuit will be the person who broke down or crashed because GD told them NOT to use a weight distribution hitch!

[@TheFriskyClicker]

@@arewethereyetshow You're looking at the wrong side, it's the hitch causing the issue not the trailer (even if the trailer is poor quality). When you use the hitch, it's increasing the weight to the back of the trailer axel aka: adding weight. Once you go over that weight limit, things break. The warnings already exist for what you are saying: don't exceed weight limits.

[@spencerforsberg4594]

I’m a truck driver with over 1million miles driven. I’ve finally decided what “RV” stands for. “Roadside vehicle”. I’ve seen plenty of them cruising at 80+ mph. They are simply not designed for that, especially with the wonderful roads we seem to have. I’m not saying that’s you, but if it was mine I would be going slow especially on bumpy roads.

[@arewethereyetshow]

I totally agree. I have seen those people speeding by and sometimes with no sway control either. I keep it at 65 or under. Faster and you just don't have control of especially travel trailers. Speed kills.

[@HighCountryRambler]

I had the same thing happen on my Toy Hauler, my friends Travel trailer dis the same right where the tow hitch meets the front cross member. We fixed both by welding a piece of large 4" angle iron over the crack, then rand bead around the angle. Stronger than factory, in fact when I get time I'm planning on doing the same on the other 'not cracked' frame piece. I's caused by using too thin of steel frame material for this application that is in constant flex when used.

[@cmoshpit9171]

im sorry to say, but those welds look absolutely terrible. i hope it holds up

[@arewethereyetshow]

Well I do to. They position to weld was awkward so I think that was part of the issue.

[@glenncoon6639]

Don’t hold your breath waiting for gran design. They have tons of people with cracked frame issues and they pass it off to slippery who passed it back to gran design saying they build the frames to grab design spec a circus side show for sure. It is a shame they aren’t made to stand behind their products

[@arewethereyetshow]

I'm not. But no harm in asking.

[@arewethereyetshow]

Well I am amazed but they asked for photos and an invoice, sent them on to Lippert and Lippert is cutting a check for the repair amount! They are even mailing it to my next long stop. Grand Design was very responsive. I am a bit surprised I must say!

[@paulhughes5979]

I saw this video and have to tell you my story. I too had cracks like yours, mine were above each leaf spring hanger. You will not get any help from Lippert. I could not see your frame that well but does it have a square tube welded to the bottom of the I-beam? I'll bet not. That's how they fixed the problem on later RVs, but won't acknowledge there was a problem. I had the same kind of repair, welded the crack then welded a plate over the crack area. Good Luck.

[@arewethereyetshow]

Thanks. I am not really expecting anything from the manufacturers. They wanted photos but now have gone silent... But this sounds similar. the cracks are above the center leaf spring hangers on both sides between the dual axles.

[@RamHemi5.7]

I’m wondering if over adjusting weight distribution systems are causing these stress fractures

[@arewethereyetshow]

I wonder too. I would be all for manufacturers giving us guidelines on and recommendations on using weight distribution systems. But for now, crickets.

[@vincebotkin1960]

Yes the frame can crack after even one year. Think of all the turns you do with the trailer. You are forcing something to go sideways that only wants to go straight. The mobile welder did to the job correctly making a partial pen weld and welding a plate over it to transfer the load. The bottom flange torques side to side when you turn, this in return is fatiguing the metal causing the crack. Full height stiffeners are needed to prevent the flexing of just the bottom flange and distributing the forces equally throughout the beam. I did a KZbin video Lippert frame fix. Part 1 , showing what I welded for prevent what happened to you using the applications that are used in all the high rises in LA.

[@arewethereyetshow]

Thanks I will definitely check it out.

[@h2o100c]

That frame was bad from start to finish I believe you handled the issue properly.

[@arewethereyetshow]

Thanks I think so too. That’s why I’m hoping Lippert and Grand Design step up to the plate with some compensation.

[@daveladner-ti5tp]

Did you unhook your ground in your battery

[@arewethereyetshow]

I've got a fused cut off switch on the positive leg and cut off on the negative so I don't have to physically remove the leads from the posts which are under the bed. So I was able to cut both off before welding.

[@terryayers7549]

he should have drilled a stop hole at each end of the crack. keep an eye on it it will probable crackagain. BTW I was a welder for 45 yrs and strange things happen when welding steel.

[@arewethereyetshow]

That's good to know. I know he cleaned and beveled the cracks but not sure about the stop hole. One end was a little "spidery" so I'm not sure how you'd drill stop holes in that case. But thanks for the insight.

[@Jjpent]

Sorry, but with those beads around that plate, would not pass, a QA inspection. Quite sloppy, and may not hold, even with your recommended stop holes.

[@tonycoruzzi3604]

@@arewethereyetshow you dye pen the crack to find all the starts and stops, even if it spider cracks. Drill out every crack end, then grind to prep for a 100% penetration weld. But dye pen again to verify you drilled the end of the crack after grinding. Most times the dye pen will show you missed drilling out the crack end once ground out as the crack was not through the outer skin of the steel, so you drill again and grind past he hole and repeat with dye pen till no cracks are visible. The key is 100% penetration weld through the whole crack from drill hole to drill hole, grind the weld flat and then weld a patch over the welded crack, making sure the patch is at least 1.5" beyond where the crack was welded on all sides if possible. The patch should be the same thickness as the metal you're repairing. If you never found the end of the crack and drilled it out there is a high chance the crack will continue right through the patch that was placed over it and your back to square one.

[@patrickclark9909]

I would be selling that rig ASAP. It only the beginning of things to come.

[@arewethereyetshow]

Well it seems that Covid era rigs are all having quality issues. The cost of replacing this rig is not in the cards right now so hopefully this keeps structural issues at bay for now.

[@ronrose1656]

This is not just a Lippert issue! Lippert makes the frames to the the builder of the Travel Trailers spec. The Travel Trailer specs a cost and a maximum weight for the trailer, as well as the carrying capacity. They both cut corners for cost and weight savings, often times to detriment of the owner. Im betting MORE than 50% of the fifth wheels have issues. Also Im betting 100% of the owners have the trailers at or above the max load capacity, and dont even think about hauling fresh, grey or black water, that will put you well over ideal. Check your numbers!

[@arewethereyetshow]

I think being overweight is an issue in many cases. It is equally a Grand Design (who give them the specs) and Lippert (who manufactures the frame) issue. I can tell you that this particular trailer has not run overweight but it has been close to the specs. I think their specs are probably max at ideal conditions and if you have driven any of the interstates lately you know there are many roads not at ideal conditions!

[@scotkudron9537]

I would say that is more of a design flaw than a workmanship or manufacturing issue. I would be curious what gage material was used and who decided on those specifications. Was that lipperts's decision or is that what grand design was willing to pay for?

[@arewethereyetshow]

I think Grand Design gives specs to Lippert. BUT Lippert needs to make sure they can stand behind engineering specs and meet with their partners to resolve flaws. But I will say, the welder was very surprised at the thin-ness of the gauge of steal used.

[@LauraJust-p3w]

Praise God you found the cracks. Shout to your welder for helping you and Karen out. Stay safe Chuck!

[@arewethereyetshow]

Thanks. I agree with both statements! We’ve gone another 1600 miles since the repair and so far so good. We always praise God for safe travels!

[@timmorgan7402]

Keep buying crap, they will keep making it for you. All rv and campers are crap. Even outdoors rv. Once warranty is out your screwed

[@joyrogers124]

All RV manufacturers have issues, some more than others. Grand Design seems to be having ALOT of issues lately. But to say "all RVs and campers are crap" is a gross exaggeration. People need to do their homework, thoroughly check out the brand/model they want to purchase, and have the specific unit they want to buy professionally inspected. And yes, walk away from manufacturers with poor quality and customer service.

[@arewethereyetshow]

The balance between light weight and durable is tenuous at best. When I bought the unit, Grand Design had a pretty good reputation for quality control. But it seems their partnership with Lippert over frame construction has faltered in the last few years.

[@arewethereyetshow]

I am a TOTAL believer in getting a third party pre sale inspection on new or used rigs from an independent certified inspector. Cheap insurance!

[@brojerhwg5206]

6:.... sorry for your loss... this (imho) defective frame will continue to fail and the public awareness of these manufacturers is tanking resale values... your next trailer is maybe the company that makes all aluminum frames and does everything in house?... dunno🎉❤

[@arewethereyetshow]

Are there such manufacturers? I think most companies assemble parts they source out.

[@hcarpam1]

I just found I have 3 small cracks on my under frame. It's only a year old !!! I cannot get my New York inspection with it. The dealer is sending me to a fabrication shop. Anyone have any idea of a ballpark amount?

[@arewethereyetshow]

Sorry to hear that. I would think this would be handled under warranty. I spent around 1100 for my two welds and the extra steel plate. Lippert is reimbursing me for the repair and mine is out of warranty.

[@deanvoss7098]

People want lightweight campers... you got it plus it saves manufacturers money...

[@88corinutza]

FYI ALWAYS turn power off to rig and disconnect batteries

[@arewethereyetshow]

Power was off and all disconnects were engaged.

[@jsEMCsquared]

Have you seen Liz amazing on KZbin? New scriber

[@arewethereyetshow]

Yes I have been watching her episodes.

[@bertkelly7650]

YOU are doing something wrong! At least that's what they are saying. GL!

[@arewethereyetshow]

Yeah I think what they are saying is if you don't move the trailer all will be well 🤣

[@Bunkysworkshop]

What year is your travel trailer? We have the same trailer and it’s a 2022.

[@arewethereyetshow]

2021

[@Bunkysworkshop]

@@arewethereyetshow I guess I’d better start inspecting the frame.

[@sljack1671]

How much did this cost? I would like to get something similar done

[@arewethereyetshow]

It was about $1000 between both welds, the reinforcement plates and coming to my location.

[@sljack1671]

@@arewethereyetshow Thank you!

[@bret1961]

Surprise surprise!

[@leapnlarry]

What is your name, i missed it, I think it would be a good idea to put your names in the about page, and give a more complete story of who you are and what is your story. Before i sub a channel i always check the about page first. JMO. Larry

[@arewethereyetshow]

My name is Chuck and you are correct. My about page is sorely lacking. I will work on that. I am a retired teacher. I taught shop and then technology related courses and finally was an Administrator at a trade tech school. I am an avid traveler and photographer.

[@richardtaylor2973]

Just for others to know, you should always disconnect all batteries before welding on a frame.

[@arewethereyetshow]

Power was off and all disconnects were engaged.

[@christhomas9837]

@@arewethereyetshow That is not the same as unhooking the batteries.

[@MrMoser18]

I’ve been a mechanic for 25 yrs. Performed various welding jobs on cars (many race cars) and lots of equipment. If there’s an actual battery disconnect, which obviously ensures a stop to current flow, that’s all we ever disconnect. Anything further than that is redundant.

[@christinedahlsilva7941]

I am lucky . my frame is not cracking, it is rusting from the poor paint job

[@arewethereyetshow]

a brush and some metal spray paint should help protect your investment.

[@ib516]

RV frame cracking is very common as Lippert makes JUNK quality frames.

[@GFSwinger1693]

The outfitter is ultimately responsible for the final integration of the frame to the box structure. They spec out what frame to use and how to integrate the overall structure to the frame. I would not put this all on Lippert. No frame is 100% flex free.

[@arewethereyetshow]

I agree @GFswinger1693 that both the manufacturer and their subs hold responsibility. But a frame should last longer than 3 years without structural defect. They need to design for normal use and not to bare minimum standards.

[@CharlieB195]

All I can say is you may want to get those welds look at by a real welder. I have a little training on weld inspection (no certification) and those are extremely poor weld around the reinforcement plate. Don’t take my word. Get a certified welder or inspector to look at them.

[@On-down-the-road]

Another Grand design! And this one is a bumper pull. Stop buying GRAND DESIGN !! I had a keystone sprinter inspected and bought it. I need a water pump, and anode rod in water heater. Frame and suspension all good.

[@robertnasser9937]

Check out your electric system completely. Battery’s must be disconnected when welding. Hope they were.

[@arewethereyetshow]

They were shut off at the disconnects. Everything seems to be working properly. But I will take extra caution should we have to do more welding. Thanks for the tip.

[@markadams5823]

Things aren't built the way they used to.

[@st6795]

There you go think out of the box and move on.

[@JohnDoe-zz3hj]

junk, 1/8 frame aint thick enough for a single axel motorcycle trailer, and then chinese metal junk

[@arewethereyetshow]

The welder was surprised how thin it was too. But the steel and fabrication are done in Indiana, not China. Disappointing.

[@JohnDoe-zz3hj]

@@arewethereyetshow a lot of metal that these frame builders like lippert are buy metal from China, not USA metal in many cases.

[@lhsgolfer1991]

Please don’t take him up on a welding lesson after the welds he just added to your frame.

[@JuanGonzalez-vf8vs]

If you own an RV, learn to work on your stuff. Same as owning a home, be a homeowner even if you are on the road.

[@michaelshepard9409]

I feel you people are buying grand poop boxes because it says grand!!!!!!! Such tools....

[@arewethereyetshow]

They have actually had good ratings until Covid. But they seem to have had some issues during the pandemic.

[@banjobenson9348]

Grand design has a history of bad workman ship it seems.

[@arewethereyetshow]

Yes I don't think the pandemic era was good to them. Which is unfortunate because there were known for there quality control at one point.

[@bobbypaluga4346]

You mean your Garbage Design?