Our Top Modeling Secret: Vert Reordering

[@MiMicheIIe]

I've been working with this program for over 6 years, and ONLY NOW do I know about this. I always just worked around the problem by duplicating my skinned mesh, and making the blend shapes that way, without ever actually modifying the mesh - just sculpting. Interesting to know you don't necessarily have to be limited by that, though!

[@Tim3Lime]

This channel is such a gold mine! I especially like how you guys don't focus too much on the software and more on the theory. Keep up the good work guys!

[@ValentinNadolu]

@13:00 The tool is not fiddly, the annoyance comes from the "Preserve Component Selections" option being activated in Preferences->Selection. Deactivate it and every time you change component type, you'll start the selection from scratch, no more running into the previous selection.

[@christianmendez3639]

For months I've been searching how to modify this parameter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks a lot...you never disappoint us

[@FlippedNormals]

Really happy to help! Vert re-ordering is a tricky one, for sure.

[@christianmendez3639]

@@FlippedNormals You guys rock lml

[@GameDragon2k]

This is tremendously helpful and surprisingly coincidental. I just started learning blendshapes this weekend and ran into this EXACT issue. I kept having to redo my blendshapes every time. Thanks a ton!

[@mrexpendable1232]

Wow this was a great video! This is the stuff that we need. We won't know these things being self taught unless someone tells you

[@dannyhsn119]

this problem really annoyed for a long time. it was very frustating. Thanks. it was a good help

[@klaudioladavac]

Since i have finally switched to v2018 recently, i've been trying to implement it more in actual modeling workflow by using it to make complex patterns on surfaces. Basic workflow on a sphere would be: 1. Make sure you have nice straight UVs on a poly sphere 2. Convert UV shell of a sphere into the same shape but flat mesh representation in the viewport. Doing this because it is easier to model pattern on the straight flat plane rather than on the sphere (or any other complex shape). 3. Use Transfer Vertex Order to match now "flat UV" mesh vertices to the original geo (sphere in this case) and create a blend shape (flatUV > sphere) 4. Model your pattern within your "flat UV" mesh and once done use Wrap deformer 5. Now when you drag that blendshape slider the pattern will go from flat into a sphere shape.

[@DanielGarcia-ys7kj]

Klaudio Ladavac great idea man, I would love to see a demo video of your technique.

[@klaudioladavac]

You can check Maya ideas forum where i have suggested the tool for converting UVs to Mesh which would include a bunch of things under one tool. I have attached video were i go over technique so you can check that and add a vote while you are there. > forums.autodesk.com/t5/maya-ideas/uvs-to-mesh-convert/idi-p/8003900

[@yeahgirl11]

@@klaudioladavac Thanks a lot Klaudio! You're really helpful!

[@hamiltonafjr]

My god! This is one of the best youtube channels

[@FlippedNormals]

Thanks a lot! This means much to us

[@tulextreme]

What an amazing under the hood tip. Really great full for this guys. Best Maya (and others) channel around!

[@mMemoli]

Nice tutorial! meshReorder has been in the SDK examples for a very long time. For some reason they decided to compile it from version 2017. It works fairly well. It crashes mostly when you have combined meshes or normals are inverted. Another way to transfer the vertex id is to transfer the vertex position to a copy of the good id mesh using transfer attributes a couple of times. Let's say you have a good id mesh and a bad id mesh. Duplicate the good id mesh Create an auto unwrap on the mesh if it doesn't have UVs yet. Transfer attributes using: Attribute to transfer: UVs Sample space: Topology Now that the two meshes have matching UVs we can transfer the vertex position to the duplicated mesh with good id. The whole process is quite easy to script it in python. I wrote the script a while ago if you guys need it.

[@Kapitastico]

I had the crazy blendshape problem when I was learning maya, but thanks to my teacher and friend I could fix it, but now, I've understood why that happened hahah Thank you guys!

[@FlippedNormals]

We had the same :D If you dont know whats going on, it's really a mystery-issue.

[@srrich27]

Awesome video! Point/Vert ordering is definitely more important in Houdini, but glad to hear Maya added a sorting tool. Doing blendshapes WAS always a PITA. "The tool's a bit fiddly" Oh Maya, never change

[@mgoldfarb]

Houdini's 'matchtopolgy' tool is a life saver

[@FlippedNormals]

Yup, Match Topology is what I've been using there too. It's' fantastic!

[@liscarscott]

This video just saved my life!

[@nikkytae]

pretty cool, didnt know there was a way to fix this problem haha. usually i'd have to work around it by duplicating cleaned models then wrapping meshes over another/redoing the blendshape before blendshaping them again. thanks for the vid.

[@martinfatnesrenders1767]

OOOOOH! Houdini video would be awesome! Love it so much and learning a lot from you guys that isn't talked about in this detail.

[@darkogotal278]

Great video. Does reordering vertexes break the uv-s?

[@luxxeon3d]

Good job, guys. BTW, the same facts and techniques hold true in most other packages, like 3dsmax. In Max, blend shapes are called morphs, but vert order is still the same effect.

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

Same in Blender (but they are called Shape Keys).

Ohhh I remember when this happened to me! Thx for explaining, I'd never figure out by myself.

[@xxTacolord]

If you copy and paste meshes or parts of meshes, does that retain vert order? Thank you for this, now I understand why sometimes models are goin all whackamole when they may switch versions of Maya or operating systems.

[@edgarzolotuhin4638]

THANK YOU SO MUCH !! ! ! i really couldnt figure out how to stack uv s perfectly ontop of each other and have everything working in zbrush ! ! ! TYSM

[@ColdKei]

"were screaming" you say... Well, I scream constantly, bcoz Maya crushes when trying to reorder ALL THE TIME, zero successfull attempts, round zero :"(

[@Kinkoyaburi]

Great video! I've tried to learn blend shapes before, and it didn't work as expected. Now I have some idea why.

[@Mrinal019]

Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! I have to make blendshapes again if I miss this video. I will remember vertex reordering till death. =)

[@davidbiggs1109]

Thank you guys so much for this!!

[@chaztrammell123]

AWESOME!!!! Would this affect your texture grid if you change the vertex order?? Specifically your 0-1 area in the hyperspade.

[@bigxxl7896]

Great vid. Would you reorder verts for static meshes? Or do you only reorder if the mesh youre working on deforms? Could you guys do a video on common mistakes with topology? How to fix them, and how to fix issues like pinching when subd modelling. It would also be great if you could explain what poles are, and different use cases for them. Thanks :)

[@FlippedNormals]

Well, you dont really have to technically reorder anything, though it can be useful. I'd only do it for organic characters with a body. I wouldnt reorder a lamp. Thats a great idea! Thanks!

[@andremoreira20]

Great great video! Simple and practical! It does help with single mesh objects, but I would like to ask you guys if there is a similar solution in the case where you have combined objects, because in this case it keeps wrangling the mesh... For example, instead of only the face, I have two eyes, two eyebrows, two eyelashes, etc. I thought about separating it and reordering one by one, which could be an option if I only had to do it once, but it happens that I need to do this to A LOT of models, and it would be great if there was some kind of solution to it. Thank you in advance for your advice!!

[@sal64dd18]

I remember there used to be a Wrap deformer fix for this. This solution is much better though!

[@KrisuMiushy]

Love you guys ♥ Thanks to this i can go back and fix a model i did long ago lol

[@danielbohn1383]

nice explanation! But I only see the Problem when dealing with other Applications like zbrush (mudbox etc.). It's really sad that Artists needs to care about those technical things...in the year 2018! The maya "transfer vertex orders tool" looks not very smart - why didn't they add a transfer vert order function to the transfer attributes tool?

[@gutspraygore]

Great stuff, guys. Thanks.

[@davidmonteiro6822]

Very informative. If say you had done already a bunch of blendshapes for a character and then, at some point you realize that for some reason the vert order has been altered and the blendshapes don not work properly anymore: could you reorder the vert order to be identical again? (that would be a life saver in some situations!)

[@FlippedNormals]

Yup! That's how you'd do it :) Without vert reordering, you're in some deep trouble then.

[@davidmonteiro6822]

And even for a complex geometry with 40 k polys thats easy to acomplish (vert reorder i mean)?

[@PieroStuff]

Extremely interesting and useful information, thank you guys! Just a question: What other problems can happen due to wrong vertex ids? I'm asking especially thinking about game models. Thanks!

[@FlippedNormals]

The main issue is really when meshes are dependent on each other. Lets say youre using one mesh as a sim-mesh and the vert order changes - it might not work. Really though, the main issues are whats shown in the video: Blend shapes and updated your ZBrush model

[@PieroStuff]

All clear, thank you! ^^

[@whatwouldjeebusdo377]

but but... ive grown so used to the old fix approach.... screaming at monitor.. you know its hard to teach old dogs new tricks

[@TanukiDigital]

I really need a way to do this in Max... any ideas?

[@ankitifoo]

Thank you.

[@jethanisaurabh848]

Awesome video, thanks for all the helpful resources. Can you guys someday cover something about facs based rigging, I am trying to find resources to learn it but kinda stuck from both artistic and technical stand point. Thanks

[@nanfredman1991]

Thank you! I've shared this around.

[@Haruyuki_Art]

awesome tips thank you very much

[@sans0902]

thank you for ur help

[@DaisyIllustrations]

Thank yo ufor sharing your knowledge guys! It helps out a lot

[@FlippedNormals]

Thanks for watching! Much appreciated.

[@AceMaijin]

Great stuff and great jokes, thx fellas!

[@FlippedNormals]

Thanks! :D

[@Al-Hebri]

great tut thank you

[@o4hk]

Answer at 07:15

[@LucasSantos-cn4wb]

For some reason reorder vertices is grayed put for me in Maya 2020.1... I've tried a lot of different ways to get it to work but nothing. Even the Autodesk page that links you to the info on reorder vertices skips right over the tool completely.

[@LucasSantos-cn4wb]

It was off in the plugin manager somehow. Hopes this helps someone.

[@EJtheArtist]

Does the same thing happen if you select and delete the right side rather than the left side? as the verts are reading left to right?

[@FlippedNormals]

Yup - same thing will happen. If you change the vert order in any way, it will screw up.

[@samal-nomasi2700]

Thank you for this video

[@TylerMatthewHarris]

Nice! Speaking of rigging. I'm in need of a really good rigging playlist/resource. Does anyone know of one?

[@wildtexan2096]

kzbin.infoplaylists might try here

[@wildtexan2096]

and james taylor is pretty good kzbin.info/door/G-PGhwzTOjekSGfImeBSdA

[@TylerMatthewHarris]

wildtexan thanks!

[@ZNeutrenoHD]

What do you think of the 'lite' version of zbrush, zbrushcore?

[@FlippedNormals]

Really good for sculpting :) Just as good as regular ZBrush - though you obviously cant use it for hard core production work.

[@Dean_Ferguson]

This is great for a contiguous mesh, but there are times I want to create blend shapes made from several sub meshes and reordering these types of mesh does not work. The only solution I can find is reordering each mesh individually before combining. If anyone has a better solution for this that would be great.

[@bao007fei]

Very useful tips. Love ya:D

[@unbuiltartist2354]

Why do we use the blend shape tool?.... I'm beginner

[@FlippedNormals]

You can do stuff like facial expressions with them or muscle deformation :) Lets say you want to flex a biceps. You can now make a blend shape where the bicep is flexed and then turn it on and off. Blend shapes is really a core tool in 3d.

[@47humza]

such awesome tutorials we need more Like this why character deform in unity after edit mesh in Maya animation are deforming.

[@jinchoung]

interesting. this was a very well known topic in lightwave circles.

[@FlippedNormals]

Ah nice! So LW has good vert reordering tools?

[@jinchoung]

yeah - although they weren't (aren't) part of the core program. there were a ton of free plugins at the now defunct flay.com and japanese devs in particular were really good at vertex order restoration tools. funny thing with lw is that it's really primitive - it doesn't abstract much of the modeling process and hide things to make things easier for you. so peeps that come through from lw are usually pretty good at understanding the core concepts underlying poly modeling. to this day, i find it anathema that maya has double sided polys on by default. how wasteful! : )

[@TophatwithTeeth]

6:14 jump to solution

[@stana1980]

Which software is this

[@IGarrettI]

autodesk Maya and zbrush

[@mozzarellaarc]

its so technical, im not sure what can i do about all this information, great video nonetheless

[@FlippedNormals]

If you ever have this issue, just go back to the video :) It's useful once in a while.

[@VirtualSuperSoldier]

I've done 3D modeling for years and never run into this. Either I'm that good, or I'm not on the same level. I think I know which one.

[@crowdemon_archives]

Or you're just lucky to not accidentally break something like this lol (happened once to me in Zbrush lol)

[@OneImmortalStudios]

The compression really does not like all those numbers moving across the screen.

[@vodahlava]

almost half way thru the vid but if you guys were serious about getting H license, let me know.

[@DejiDigital]

9:46

[@Blindconcept]

You guys

[@MODEST500]

No 3ds max stuff????

[@ronak8637]

Wow

[@kaiser_design]

Oooof when do you guys give up Maya and work full blender. Your tutorials are great, but half don't apply to me (at least in the same way).

[@karljoyeux5148]

Idont rly understand in wt case u use the bend shape tool

[@JuGGerNauTT32]

In many cases. Usually for driving facial expressions, or do corrective work on muscle deformations. You combine them with the underline bones to achieve the best results. Look into Jud Simantov's facial rigging course, he explains a lot of these concepts from a technical standpoint ... (He's a senior TD @ Naughty Dog) ;)

[@hugoruix_yt995]

Why is that important tho? Never used it before, srry

[@PutchoDorenzio1994]

use Blender save time

[@DrTheRich]

Putcho Dorenzio wonder if blender has a similar tool, or does someone still need to make it?

[@PutchoDorenzio1994]

What tool are you talking about, if you mean blend shape, Blender has Shape Keys and you dont have to make 1000 copies for blend shapes or vert reordering. Try it and you will understand why Autodesk's blend shape are suck.

[@DrTheRich]

I know, i just mean vertex order transfer...

[@phosphorus2740]

Why can't you blendlets ever shut up? You keep shilling your donut meme software on every damn 3d video there is. I never see Maya, Houdini and Modo users doing that. Just shows how immature and insecure the blender community is. But I'll humor you: "use blender, never get a job".

[@DrTheRich]

Phosphorus technically we can't be shills as blender is not for sale... And we are not hired by any company to do so. We just know how amazing the program is and wish everyone that amazing experience. And also the more popular blender becomes the more studios will go use it in the future the more chance there is for jobs.

[@Al-Hebri]

great tut thank you