Oxalic Acid Vaporization for Varroa Mite Control, specifically through thinner entrances.

[@FrederickDunn]

If you want to see what happens when you treat with OA, watch this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnPXqpiOm5uZoMU

[@ME_MeAndMyBees]

Hi Fred. Hope you had a great Thanks Giving and Black Friday Holiday. Stores here in Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 are now doing the 'USA' thing : on Clearance Sales etc. Alas no Turkey. . . That's our UK Christmas : In exactly x1 Months time. 🦃 Excellent Oxalic Acid "How To" Video. 👍 Memo : For UK 🇬🇧 Beekeepers : Re Vet/Medication Laws : We can only use "Licenced" O/A called "Api-Bioxal" (It's illegal to use O/A Crystal's "Wood Bleach" !) You might have the local Bee Inspector come and say "Nope," don't do what Fred shows here. . . Please Check your Rules & Regs. . . If not Stateside. 👀 Watching today : Like going back in Time (!) Wow your Studio setup and Production content has come on in so many levels. 😉 Tip : Think outside the Box. I've made my own "Gas" fired ("Api-Bioxal") using"Gas Vap." Saved my self £100s/$100s in making a Homemade DIY "V.M Treatment Gas Vap" Using a T:Junction, Cap Ends, Copper Pipe (+Solder) Combo setup. Easy to use and Refill. Made one for Wood Box and Poly Box use. Heated with a Chef Gas Flame Torch, and then control Heated recording Temp via my Infared Therm Tool/Gun. 👍 We can't easily access all that 'Elec/Battery Kit' stuff to use those Wands. In very Rural locations at Heather. So had to think, think,think out: an own Vap solution. Did get a few 'elements' via Amazon Black Friday Deals ! : Filtered 3M Mask, Eye Goggles, Thick Gloves, Teaspoon measure Cups. . .😉

[@JoeKaye-hn5dt]

In the past few millennia, the domestic honeybee has been "genetically modified" (no matter how want to define that) strictly for increased honey output per hive. Unfortunately, this compaction of honeybee genetics has resulted in a smaller genetic pool and we're now seeing a substantial population that is susceptible to parasites (susceptibility probably bred out 88000 years ago, for all we know). Freddie very clearly addresses this susceptibility issue and how he addresses it. Thank you Freddie! This video is now shown to my high school Biology 2 class where I teach genetics and reiterate to my students just how important genetic diversity is, and how the honeybee is important to our food resources.

[@FrederickDunn]

Hi Joe! Thank you so much, THAT is a HUGE compliment! Please let me know of there are subjects your students would like to know more about for my Beekeeping FAQ series.

[@wpankey57]

As a new beekeeper, I appreciate and welcome your seasoned knowledge OA.

[@FrederickDunn]

Thank you so much :)

[@kevinwilford6097]

I live in Western PA and knowing you're located in my general region I always pay great attention to what you do and when you do them. This will be the beginning of my 2nd year of backyard beekeeping so I'm still very new to this. I did however treat for varroa last November and December with this same OA vaporization method. One lesson from my experience I will say: once you put that wand into the hive, connect it to the power supply, wait the few minutes it takes to fully vaporize the OA crystals, and disconnect from power supply; immediately REMOVE the hot aluminum wand from the hive and quickly block the entrance again with your rag. I left mine inside for the 10 minutes the directions tells you to wait while the wand was in there cooling. The bees saw this hot Vaporizer as a threat and began to attack the very hot aluminum plate and the wire running down the handle. I found dozens of stingers stuck in the wire, and a mess of melted and half-melted bee carcasses in the aluminum bowl. On my second treatment, immediately after vaporization I removed the wand, quickly re-stuffed the entrance, waited the 10 minutes and found zero dead bees. Lesson learned. Everyone's experience will vary but that is what happened for me. Maybe it'll help someone else from needlessly killing a few of their bees like I did. Great video as always!

[@FrederickDunn]

Thanks Kevin, I'm going to mention that in my next Q&A video! That is something I had completely forgotten about! Do you mind if I mention you?

[@kevinwilford6097]

@@FrederickDunn I would be happy to help you and other fellow beekeepers however I can. Thank you!

[@thehiveandthehoneybee9547]

do you do that too mr dunn? I have watched several OA videos and they say to leave it in until cold? I'm confused now.

[@kevinwilford6097]

@@thehiveandthehoneybee9547 I know exactly how you feel. Every video says leave it in. The directions for the Vaporizor I bought says to leave it in. But after I left it in I found a bunch of dead bees. I also haven't seen a video of an actual demonstration in an apiary. Your bees may act differently than mine. Try both ways and see which one you like better. :)

[@FrederickDunn]

@@thehiveandthehoneybee9547 You'll have to see the practical tests coming up next month :)

[@thehiveandthehoneybee9547]

Thank you Mr Dunn, I went to Blythewood Bee Supply and bought that vaporizer!!!!! you are the man!!!!!

[@DuncanHeather]

Frederick Have just come across your channel and am really enjoying your videos. You mentioned drones being thrown out of the hives in summer. Drones are one of your best indicators of colony nutrition. If you have young lava and no eggs, the hive has been short on nutrition for 3 days. If you have sealed brood but no lava, then the then the hive has been in a dearth for a week. 2 weeks without pollen or nectar the workers will start uncapping and throwing out the developing drone brood. 3-4 weeks and they start to expel the existing drones. Only to start the whole process again when the flow improves. Something to watch out for when you using that style of 'heated wand' for treatment. I know you mentioned the risk of fire, but there have been several reported cases of people setting fire to their hives, even with the commercially available wands. Apparently, you can't tell the difference between the oxalic acid vapour and smoke until it's too late. I was sceptical, until last year, when I was cleaning one of my boxes, only to find 2 frames in the centre had been badly scorched. It's really important not to leave the wands connected to the power for more than 2 minutes. Otherwise, you run the very real risk of setting fire to the wooden frames or potentially melting your plastic ones. I won't use this treatment now, as I consider it too much of a risk. Instead, I now use a ProVap 220. All the best from the UK

[@FrederickDunn]

Thanks Duncan, those are interesting observations and suggestions regarding the relationship between Drone Discards and available forage. That all makes sense until I see the pollen resources rolling in while the drones are being rolled out... one thing we've learned through the years is that the bees, though they may follow trends, is that they are frequently full of surprises. And welcome to my channel!

[@framcesmoore]

U are smart Never thought of a jumper box I was using a battery from a mower

[@kathyhathaway8823]

This was a Great video for me . You answer a lot of my questions on this . Hope to see more of your videos . I am just getting back into Bee keeping from the 60’s and the 70’s Thanks

[@FrederickDunn]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@robertshorthill6836]

So I ran across a video where this gent made a vaporizer from pipe fittings. I just happened to have all the parts and put them together should I need the unit . The OA goes into a pipe cap and is heated outside the hive with a propane torch. One could make several of these for a not expensive amount of cash. Mine cost me nothing as I used up junk in my shop to be used for a good purpose instead of taking up space in a drawer. I drilled a small hole in the rear of the hive to push the brass tube into for the 2+ minutes. I took my contraption to my March bee meeting to show the 20 or so, mostly beginners, what might be an atternative to an expensive vaporizer. Some were impressed, others maybe not so much. The "leader" at the meeting said he would like for me to make a video of it being used. I gave him the KZbin site where it is being demonstrated. Well, he did thank me for showing it to the group, but I thought he was less than impressed.

[@FrederickDunn]

How Oxalic Acid Works and some warnings about too much heat causing decay Randy Oliver scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-heat-vaporization-and-other-methods-part-2-of-2-parts/

[@trishwestberg6982]

We did our first oxalic acid vapor treatment today after watching and rewatching this video. All went smoothly till trying to remover the vaporizer from the bottom of the hive. We have one plastic frame that came with the NUC and the vaporizer melted to the plastic frame. Lesson Learned. Thank you for all your informative videos, we have learned so much watching you.

[@FrederickDunn]

You definitely have to keep the pan from rising into the frames. Slatted racks also serve to keep more space between the pan and frames above it.

[@trishwestberg6982]

@@FrederickDunn do you use slatted racks between your frames and bottom board at all times?

[@FrederickDunn]

@@trishwestberg6982 I do use them on most of my Langstroth style hives.

[@danielholtxxl4936]

@@FrederickDunn I'm kinda late to the party, but what are slatted racks?

[@roughandtumblehoney4900]

I love your video set up. Such a cool, old-school reporter feel with your equipment set around the space. "Reporting from the bee field, Frederick Dunn."

[@FrederickDunn]

Thank you, I'm sorry it took me years to see this comment :)

[@rodkirt9273]

Thank You for the demonstration . I had no idea of how many crystals to use for each box . 🙂

[@shawnboutersebouterseurban387]

I like your presentations. You are very thorough. Very systematic and informative.

[@FrederickDunn]

Thank you so much!

[@kerrytom4731]

Thank you Frederick for your in-depth video on oxalic acid treatment. Your'e one of few that I trust when comes to beekeeping. Last year was my beekeeping journey. Made an mistake by using Apivar strips and leaving my honey super on during the treatment. Though my honeybees made it through the winter in the Pacific Northwest region. So I'm very thankful for that. No surplus honey for me to use but my bees survive nevertheless. That's an fair trade off. After all my number one priority was the ecology survival well being of honeybees. Harvesting for honey wasn't my goal. Using the oxalic acid vaporizer is less invasive than other methods. For sure I will lessening chance of rolling the queen or accidentally harm her with this method.

[@FrederickDunn]

Thanks Kerry, and you can use OAV no matter what the temps are. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment!

[@vansquebec2099]

Hi Mr Dunn, i love all your bee video! Just started 2018 summer, so i’m learning alot. Sorry for my English... not my first language. I’ m from north of montréal and winter is really cold up here. Hope they ´ll survive. Continue your wonderfull job! 👍🏻

[@FrederickDunn]

Thank you so much! I'm so glad you are enjoying my presentations :)

[@lelibekang932]

First year beekeeper, and completely lost in the treatment/no treatment debacle. This video has been incredible! Informative, to the point, and very well made ! I'm am ordering the vaporizer today!

[@FrederickDunn]

Here is a follow up OAV video for you, it's considered a "soft-treatment" and has made all the difference for my bees this year. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnPXqpiOm5uZoMU

[@michelleanderson4573]

I’m only about half way through the video, great info, looking for how to clean these tools after use. Thank you

[@FrederickDunn]

You'll have to be mor especific regarding tool cleaning. If you mean the oav pans, just distilled water does the trick.

[@michelleanderson4573]

@ yes it’s the OAV wand with the pan. Thank you!!

[@jackpatriquin6636]

Looking for the next varroa video this one was done in Feb of 2019 thought the next one would be available bit I cannot find it. Great video very well done and lots more on your site. Thanks for all the work you do making high quality video like this and others on your site

[@FrederickDunn]

We did three cycles of treatments 7 days apart - the results were very good and the bees did a very strong build-up. After this honey harvest is over, I will be doing mite-counts and treatments before going into the last nectar run. What were you wanting to see? Here is a video with another method/system kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zqa3hoKCf6-ehtk

[@rockallred658]

Thanks Fred, as always an excellent video. I get very good results with oxalic acid vaporization.

[@OkieRob]

I have some VSH queens but i have been treating with OA. This year I plan to move a couple of hives aprox 5 miles to another location and leave them treatment free. As far as i know I have not lost a queen to OA. I did have 2 hives go queenless coming out of winter last year. For all i know i might have rolled those 2 on my last inspection before winter. In my location I try to do a one time OA early before brood build up and I do a series of OA in august to get the mites down before winter bees are raised.

[@dmanc53]

I took a disposable aluminum BBQ pan the size of the hive floor, smashed it flat to rest the hot OA iron on in the hive. A little assurance I wasn't burning my hive body wood floor

[@dmanc53]

decided that wit ha screen bottom board, a shield would not be necessary

[@6Deep6]

Hi Fred - thanks a lot for this one. Some other treatments I saw along these same lines that may interest you to try as an experiment along side your oxalic acid test are: formic acid, and also saw people claiming that sugar powder dusting apparently removes 50% of the varroa.

[@FrederickDunn]

I answered this question on your other post.. we're going to get into that! Thanks again 6Deep6... you are posing some great questions!

[@michaelhall7921]

Hello Frederick I was disappointed to count 60 dead varroa mites from these Buckfast bees on Saturday. I think there is room for discussion about the practice of treating the bees with Oxalic acid 'fumes'. However your excellent video in 2019 most probably covers it all. I am interested with the difference with the apparent volume of the more expensive contraption you demonstrated which is labelled a vaporizer. The sublimator (swithes the unit off at 60C ) I made did not have the outlet tube near enough to the crystals and so I think the powder stuck to the internal surfaces before they emitted to atmosphere inside the beehive. I feel the statement 'you get what you pay for' may well be spot on it this instance re different methods. Does the cheapo 'wand' application distribute the fumes suitably? I must pay attention to your excellent vid re your way of doing it through the observation glass. So it seems apparent that I must be eternally observant and have a definite plan to kill varroa. Due to being an ex heating engineer I like the German's heat method in their killing of varroa, not least because heat does not involve the use of chemicals so might be better for the bees. Best wishes Mick Hall

[@Joseph-Colin-EXP]

Be interested to know what you do for treatment in your horizontal layens Fredrick.

[@FrederickDunn]

Provap 110 unit handles that perfectly.

[@Joseph-Colin-EXP]

@@FrederickDunn thank you, have a have that stalled and I'm just now realizing it's mites.... behind schedule. Hope they can recover. Just jow seeing goldenrod...

[@gordonmaurer5236]

Hi Fred, I love your videos, they are very informative and well done. I have a John Deere 318 tractor that has a rear PTO hook up that is controlled with a switch on the dash. When it is turned on it supplies 12 volts to the PTO clutch assembly. .I do not need this on my tractor and have used it to supply power to my pull behind 12 volt sprayer. This is connected with a two prong trailer wire plug connection. By cutting off ten inches off the clip end of my Oxalic Acid vaporizer lead cable and adding a two prong connector on both ends of the cot off wires, I can connect the end to an extension cable that is five foot long with the matching two prong connectors on both ends. Now I can hook up to the tractor and control the vaporizer with the switch on the dash, or replace the end of the cable with the clips that came with the unit when it was new. I can reach two of my hives at a time with the tractor hook up and leave the engine running to give me a regulated voltage supply. When I do a friends hives I use the extension wire with the battery clips attached to his jumper. I may be lazy using the tractor, but it gives a constant regulated voltage and I dont have to lug a jumper battery from hive to hive.

[@FrederickDunn]

That's an interesting method and I'm glad it works for you. I have a 4 x 4 John Deere Tractor and it generates vibration through the ground that I personally don't want when in the bee yard as it "may" agitate the bees a tad. You can indeed modify the clips on the OA unit and make a direct DC plug that then just plugs into your tractor or in my case a Golf Cart that has those receptacles. The jumper battery is definitely heavy, but it gives me longer reach with the cable clamp to clamp method. The reach from battery to hive with that setup is about 13 feet. Thanks for sharing your method! There are lots of options and that sounds like a good one!

[@gordonmaurer5236]

@@FrederickDunn My JD 318 is equipped with an Onan twin cylinder opposed self balancing twenty five HP engine. I run it just off idle when I do the sublimation and it is verv smooth and quiet. The bees don't seam to mind even when I mow right up to their hive stands.

[@matthewsweeney2577]

Very informative well done Mr Dunn👍

[@FrederickDunn]

Thank you so much!

[@JDuWayne]

Really excited for this series! I just did my first treatment of OA ever. I’m using a fogger though, not sure which is more effective🤷🏽‍♂️.

[@FrederickDunn]

We just had a beekeeper meeting this morning and several folks are using the foggers, I'm personally vested in the wands for now as I'm not treating hundreds of hives. I definitely understand that advantage with larger apiaries and commercial operations. Thanks so much John!

[@Vladviking]

I built my own. I'm not liking sliding it in the entrance and I'm about to fashion a special bottom board that will temporarily slide in and replace the "sticky" board. The vaporizer will be affixed to that. No kamikaze bee deaths and your working behind the hive were the bees don't guard much. I only have two hives now (one more than I wanted) so speed is not important. In fact I don't need to treat both on the same day. Treating just as it gets dark. I am wondering if high humidity which I have plenty of is altering the OA effectiveness and duration of the same.

[@Keith-xc9wf]

Hi Fred Can I keep feeding the bees their sugar water and pollen patties when I do the Oxalic vape?

[@FrederickDunn]

Yes, perfectly fine.

[@FrederickDunn]

Want to know more about Oxalic Acid and Human Health? Read on! www.healthline.com/nutrition/oxalate-good-or-bad#section8 More practical information regarding what the risks of Oxalates truly are: www.healthline.com/nutrition/oxalate-good-or-bad#section1 I have NOT been able to find a honey testing lab that will provide OA level tests. Since OA is present in every honey sample already, I'd like to get a baseline of levels before treatment and levels after a three-cycle treatment in order to understand exactly how much of the OA is actually introduced into the honey. The honey/nectar foraged by bees already has plant-based OA present.

[@scratchbuilder5952]

I’m going to propose a theory here… maybe it’s out to lunch but I don’t see anyone looking in to it… Yes the bees are grooming the mites… but what if you have less aggressive mites that you have bred You’re not just raising bees… you are also raising mites…you might have a more gentle form of varoah mite… that is existing in a balance with your bees Killing gentle mites might open the door to the more aggressive ones to setup shop Maybe all mites are the same… but maybe not… it would be in the mites interest to evolve into a more gentle form over time if allowed … to be able to live off the bees and not eliminate the hive and it’s food source

[@FrederickDunn]

Interesting. True, it's a poor parasite that kills of the host, yet that's exactly what they do in the case of Apis Mellifera. True also, all mites are not created equal regarding the pathogen loads they carry.

[@dmanc53]

My Stanley power charger did not work with my OA vaporizer. It gave an error code- ended up getting a 12v RV battery- (make sure it is 12v! I accidently got a 6v at first) wondering how to utilize Stanley.

[@kyleregister8539]

Hi Fred, I was watching some of your older videos on varroa treatment in preparation for getting a package of Saskatraz in a couple weeks. Right now, getting any protective gear (respirator, gloves etc) for oxalic acid vaporization is obviously not an option. I wondered if you had experience or knowledge on formic acid or thymol (Apiguard) as alternative treatment options. Also, I wanted to know how that vaporizer from Blythewood, the thin one that can fit into the Flow 2, performed for you. I'm thinking of purchasing one for later when I can hopefully purchase the PPE. Thanks!

[@FrederickDunn]

Yes, I like those thin pans on the units sold by Blythewood. They fit all hive entrances. I'm sorry to say that I don't have any experience with any treatment other than OAV. BUT, the good news is that there are many youtubes that will share those methods :) I tried to warn people very early on that they needed to get their 3M masks for oav treatments... I hope they went to medical professionals and not re-sellers :)

[@johnmcneill923]

Looking forward to those videos. Qn: any chance the Oxalic Ac. will make bees lazy and cut back on housekeeping?

[@FrederickDunn]

I don't think so, I think it will free up more "groomers" to attend to the bees that show signs of varroa. The genetics are established so I have that advantage. IF I were developing the line of survivor stock, then I would not be treating in order to select the Queens which are producing the most effective varroa killing stock! I'm very happy to leave that work to the Weaver Family so I can just enjoy them. This will be a summer of varroa examination for sure!

[@ElaineHorsley]

I have screened bottom boards (I am in California near San Jose). I bought a vaporizer and it doesn’t fit into the openings of the Ultimate Hive bottom boards either - grrr! Now I to get the one you show here - thanks for that. My question is when you are doing a treatment, do you just leave the screened part open or do you close it up? Seems the corrugated board you insert would melt. I have cut a piece of sheet metal to insert instead of the corrugated board when treating but haven’t used it and wonder if I need to close it up. Thanks for your very well done videos and great information.

[@FrederickDunn]

HI Elaine, yes you need to close it up as much as possible. You should run a test to see if your screen isn't enough to disperse the heat so as not to melt/burn your corrugated board. Generally, the screen between the heating iron and the board is enough, but just keep a watch the first couple of cycles. An open bottom board will allow too much OA to escape before being effective.

[@tomv7010]

Hi Frederick. Thank you for all your amazingly helpful videos. Unfortunately the vaporizer you recommend is unavailable now (3 years later)...have you any idea where I might find an alternative that would work with the Flow Hive 2? Thanks in advance.

[@FrederickDunn]

Hi Tom, I see a lot of them around that "look the same" but can't vouch for them since I don't use these anymore. But there are several on Amazon that really look very similar. Sorry I don't know more.

[@tomv7010]

@@FrederickDunn Never mind...I really appreciate the fast response :)

[@sundancer3625]

Hi! Thank you for pointing out that the entrance is too small for a mouse guard!! Good to know. Do you use entrance reducers on your Flow hive 2? If so, where did you get yours? Thank you!

[@FrederickDunn]

HI Desiree, I made my own and they are just short wooden wedges placed to the sides. Do date, there are no entrance reducers being sold by Flow, but easy to make. You can even just roll up pieces of window screen and tuck them in to the sides leaving the middle section open for the bees to use. They tend to propolize the screen to control air flow.

[@VidKatMA1]

Shims...my husband used shims...it is Good to have a man with shims. ;)

[@wellerjohnjr]

Thank you so much!

[@FrederickDunn]

You're welcome!

[@michaelhall7921]

Sorry to add to my previous message. I have the luxury of a laser thermometer. It took 4 minutes to reach 157 C!. Amazon cheapo wand......... It is the offset type 'tray'. ie not in line with the handle rod £20?

[@FrederickDunn]

As long as it arrives at the correct sublimation temperature, I'd call that good :)

[@dmanc53]

Helping a fellow club member with treatment- she has a horizontal hive, not mentioned in any KZbin videos'. she is going to use a follower board reducing the area. any other tips before I visit?

[@FrederickDunn]

This may help: www.fredsfinefowl.com/horizontalhives.html

[@kenblew2625]

Mr Dunn: Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, very informative. I had not thought about treating when my bees when they show up I was planning to do so in late summer. I do have a couple of questions but first let here is my situation. 1st year (2019) at beekeeping, NE Kansas (USA), have ordered one 3 lb package and one five frame (deep) nuc (I know I should have ordered two nucs). Once I get the package installed (flow hive 2/deep, 8 frame brood box. Should I treat within the first couple of days while the queen is still in the cage and am I right in thinking maybe only one treatment? (remember I'm new with no drawn comb). Next question, the nuc is going into a 10 frame deep, does the 1/4 tsp apply to both 8 frame and 10 frame boxes? Thanks again

[@kenblew2625]

Well that was a dumb question, I think I was typing before thinking. Common sense tells me to wait on treating the package until it has time to become an established colony then doing the full 3 week treatment. Not giving the unestablished package one more reason to leave their new home. Sorry

[@FrederickDunn]

Hi Ken... keep the queen away from the treatment, treat the package of bees - a single treatment is all you will need as they do not have any brood "yet" so all would be exposed. Then retore the Queen after treatment. Yes, 1/4 tsp is for an 8 or 10 frame deep. I wish you great success with your bees!

[@MikeChamplin]

​@@FrederickDunn ....So I'm in a similar boat as Ken with a brand new package of bees arriving in April. Do I install the package bees and then treat the single box at the same time (w/o the Queen) and then install the Queen maybe 30 minutes later? Is this more effective than MAQS - or just different approach? Thanks

[@FrederickDunn]

@@MikeChamplin Yes, install the package, keep the queen out, treat the entire box so the oxalic condenses on the hive interior surfaces as it will have a somewhat lasting impact and put the queen cage in there and you should be good to go :)

[@framcesmoore]

Question on the queens. like u get, how long does it take to become treatment free bees. also if your hive super seeds your queen does that mess up the treatment free bees since the queen is a sister and opened mated. I hope that makes since thanks

[@FrederickDunn]

HI Frances... the queens to get replaced from time to time and I allow swarms which also permits breeding with local unknown drones. The colonies become hybridized with local feral survivor stock. If they continue to do well, I don't re-queen, for those that are not performing well, I re-Queen those colonies with fresh pure stock from BeeWeaver. I am hoping that I am sending more genetics OUT than I am getting IN here... This year, all of my Queens and Stock will be the Weaver line.

[@aceshr9499]

What would you recommend for a OA vaporizer? My last one died after 2 years of very little use.

[@aceshr9499]

And Thank you for your military service to our country

[@FrederickDunn]

If you have the $ I put InstantVap at the top of the list for OAV. I no longer have a favorite when it comes to the wand style, but I'd check in with Blythewood Bee Supply and see what he's offering as I trust his selection completely.

[@arkas6797]

In cells with a perforated base, can the Australian-type cap with air vents be successfully applied χ sublimation? Thank you.

[@FrederickDunn]

You have to close off all vents and entrances for 10 minutes after applying the Oxalic Acid Vapor.

[@ericwagoner9149]

How do you treat Oxalic acid to a layens hive with round gate opening? I plan on getting packages of sasatraz bees in the spring.

[@FrederickDunn]

I personally drill a 1/4" hole and use the ProVap or InstantVap. not really set up for the pan-style oav units.

[@ericwagoner9149]

Thanks for the pointer and link to that video, very helpful. You talk about removing the honey supers, but can’t with the layens hive. Does the Oxalic acid make the honey bad for the bees to consume or humans or both?

[@thomasfrederick7068]

My vaporizer is too tall for my FlowHive2. I just open the tray compartment, remove the plastic tray and insert the vaporizer beneath the bottom plate. Will that be effective?

[@FrederickDunn]

I don't think so, and that's because there is nothing under the tray so the bees would just likely blow most of it away from the brood box. If you could get something under the tray to prevent aire movement down there, it could be improved.

[@angelsvocce]

The Blythewood vaporizer is no longer available. Any ideas on a suitable replacement for a flow hive 2+?

[@FrederickDunn]

I would just look for any version that is from a reputable seller and is 3/8" thick.

[@angelsvocce]

@@FrederickDunn thanks!

[@SpiritBear12]

Do you consider using powdered sugar to make the varroa mites drop off a bad "treatment"? I figure it's a non toxic way to do it and the bees do groom themselves free of the dusting. But even though powdered sugar wont kill the bees, it's not what they are designed to consume.

[@FrederickDunn]

Powdered sugar stimulates grooming, but doesn't have any detrimental impact on the mites themselves. The OA actually kills the mites. My bees to date have always groomed them off and chewed them. So powdered sugar isn't a mite control measure.. though it is used as part of mite counting, now quickly being replaced by alcohol washes.

[@SpiritBear12]

I see. I have seen other bee keepers on KZbin powder their bees and the mites drop off to the bottom of the hive. But yeah, I guess it doesn't actually kill the pests. I don't understand how the OA kills the mites but it doesn't seem to bother the bees but humans who are thousands of times bigger than bees should use a mask before fumigating a hive even though they are out in the open. How can the tiny bees who are trapped in a hive tolerate the fumigation. I know they don't have lungs like we do, but they do breathe air through the spiracles on their abdomens just like the mites do. If the mites get poisoned through their feet, then why do the bees not get poisoned the same way? Also when you do this in spring, the bees should be surviving the winter on their own honey stores. But you said fumigating in the spring is best because there are no honey supers. I'm confused how this all works. I have some holes in my understanding of this.

[@FrederickDunn]

@@SpiritBear12 It's that the bees have a higher tolerance than the mites, it's designed to produce enough to kill the mites while having a low enough dose to remain below the threshold which would harm the bees. The OA takes advantage of the mite sensitivity. For people, you are correct, our respiratory system is completely different and "we" can suffer respiratory distress and the OA can crystallize in our lungs. My chickens actually eat rhubarb leaves to control their own pesticides - it has oxalic acid in the leaves - but we can't eat the leaves - it's a species-specific toxin. Bees can take it, we and mites can't.

[@SpiritBear12]

Aaaah, I see now. Thanks for taking the time to type out this information for me.

[@CentralKyBees]

I have purchased the Hulkman 85s jumpstarter, do you think that it would work the same way your jumpstarter does by hooking it to the starters cables?

[@FrederickDunn]

Any good battery system should work.

[@CentralKyBees]

@@FrederickDunn ok I was just wondering, thanks man! Great vid!

[@CentralKyBees]

Update, the hulkman jumpstarter will not, I repeat, will not power my vaporizer. What a shame, 100$ down the drain. Guess I'll have it for winter or w/e

[@framcesmoore]

This was good thanks

[@robertmurawsky6404]

Just a question, I have as a first year bee keepr

[@robertmurawsky6404]

If we have to have our honey supers off, and have to wear gloves and a mask, so we do not inhale oxalis acid, how can we be sure this is the best way to treat the bees. Over the long term what does this do to the colony. I am concerned about this poisonous acid, as some of it works different and are not for bees.

[@nathanaelszafranski3952]

The description of Oxalic Acid Vaporization is similar to chemotherapy in human cancer treatment. OA is toxic, but the idea is treating to kill the varroa faster than you kill the bees.

[@FrederickDunn]

You definitely don't want to achieve a lethal dose on the bees. That would have been part of the trials when the OA was approved as a miticide.

[@michaelhall7921]

Dear Frederick And another thing. Even the most diligent hunter that is able to 'take' a roe deer which has the most acute self preservation senses, can miss seeing varroa mites, even when they are there! This makes me wonder that due to evolution have the varroa changed their camouflage tactics? All the ones counted are brownish and not easily seen and totally different visually to the red ones photographed? Nature is cleaver as you out of thousands will know first hand! The little buggers! Are they now 'blending in with the scenery' which every successful hunter will will copy. The only way of combatting this unseen enemy is to be one step in front of it to be able to kill it.

[@1ButterflyHunter]

The blythwood vaporizer is unavailable. Is there a suitable substitute to use for the flow hive? Thank, great vids as always.

[@FrederickDunn]

I wish they would carry them again. The flow hive bottom board can have a shim on it, like the slatted rack, and then a cut can be made in the slatted rack to accomodate a thicker pan.

[@tommyfelix6283]

thank you great information. AAA information.

[@bluetyr8538]

Is this still your go to method? Amended of course for the approved OA mix.

[@FrederickDunn]

Today, I use the Provap 110, it's made my life much easier and we can team up and do the entire apiary in late afternoon. It's expensive though, so for a few hives, I still recommend these pans.

[@bluetyr8538]

@@FrederickDunn Thanks. I'll likely go the DIY route as I've tools and enjoy making things.

[@juliocesarnieto2281]

Hi ! Greeting from Mexico City I'm a beginner beekeeper this video it's going to be useful i have one question how many minutes in this treatment are ? I understand 8 total minutes , that's right, thank you so much

[@mikefahey696]

Any thoughts on feeding mushroom extractions to bees as a natural disease and mite remedy?

[@FrederickDunn]

That's a great area of interest and potential study, but nothing has been vetted to date with significant benefits. Paul S. has a group working on that aspect, but nothing firm yet.

[@Henry.Bendik]

Seems like a lot of work when you can just use Apivar strips. Can you explain why you use this method over all the others? Thanks again!

[@FrederickDunn]

Hi Henry, apivar strips require pulling hives apart to access the brood and I find that to be counter productive as the bees are profoundly impacted by those damaging visits. oav is the least invasive treatment and one of the reasons I use it. Thanks for asking.

[@framcesmoore]

Ha Mr Dunn I came back to watch this video again it is really good. I went on Amazon about the jumper box they want 800.00 I cant do that, will any jumper box work or is this a real high voltage thanks

[@FrederickDunn]

Stay well away from that ridiculous $800.00 seller... it should be in the neighborhood of $190.00 any of the 12v top rated jumpers will do fine. Just read the reviews, I didn't realize the company had new models, mine is many years old.

[@framcesmoore]

@@FrederickDunn Thanks and have a wonderful day

[@pirateprospecting707]

Great video. Thanks for the great information!

[@FrederickDunn]

Glad it was helpful!

[@2kings3queens]

if you were to vaporize the OA into an empty hive before you installed a package or Nuc, would the residual OA crystals in and on the hive components have an effect. Could be a way to expose the bees to one less treatment. I know that would be exposing them to a treatment with out actually monitoring levels, probably not the best practice either. The last video where you noted that your ready to go box in the yard is often moved into comes in to mind also , would be like a fresh coat of paint before the new tenants move in. Any thoughts?

[@FrederickDunn]

You really need to get it right on the bees for maximum eficacy, but it would have "some" impact when the varroa creep around.

[@2kings3queens]

Frederick Dunn kinda what I thought after doing some more research. Read some info from scientificbeekeeping.com/ seems like the commercial guys are doing dribble more than sublimation. Seems Randy Oliver suggests not to treat with OA more than once in the year. This beekeeping thing is a real challenge and I haven’t even got started yet!! Thanks for the awesome videos, which by the way I am watching one by one😎. Here is the link to some of the info I referred to scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/

[@FrederickDunn]

@@2kings3queens Remember that commercial beekeeping is about speed and efficiency (time management). My information is for backyard beekeepers with enough time to spend on each colony that commercial folks, Randy included, just don't have. I always try to promote the safest procedures and there have not been any detrimental side effects with OAV, but there have been detrimental effects with the dribble method when keepers apply it too late in the season. Since the coal is to apply OA during low brood periods, many apply it in late summer, early fall, and that can challenge the bees. I recommend, after mite counts, that people treat in spring before the nectar flow, and also fall after the honey harvest... of course, after meaningful mite level counts. Randy is a fast-moving commercial keeper, I'm a slow deliberate backyard manager :)

[@FrederickDunn]

@@2kings3queens Dribble is more invasive and OAV is the only method that can treat my observation hive. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnPXqpiOm5uZoMU

[@feliciaromanu5666]

❤

[@HoustonMetalDetectingServices]

Can the vaporizer not just be positioned under the screened bottom board?, I have two flow hives, and purchased a vaporizer that will not fit in the landing board opening?

[@FrederickDunn]

That wouldn't be effective as you need to trap the vapor inside the hive for the 10 minute dwell time.

[@letseatsteak]

That vaporizer that fits the Flow Hive 2 is discontented. Do you know of another that definitely fits?

[@FrederickDunn]

I would just get a good quality wand and then notch the upper part of the entrance just enough to accomodate it. Or, you can put a slatted rack on and have a notch in that just during your OAV treatments, plus the slatted rack will keep the comb away from your treatment pan.

[@letseatsteak]

I actually have a 120v model similar to Lorob. A guy in Canada makes an amazing one with an aluminum, welded housing. I'd provide the link if I knew it.. maybe I'll come back with that

[@Thea_MojaveOutliersWhipmakers]

Are you going to do a control hive?

[@FrederickDunn]

I have not decided what my procedure will be yet... I will definitely consider many parameters.

[@cyrusrussell2062]

I have heard that you should not use oxalic acid in certain temperatures I don't know what they are it is my first season with bees

[@FrederickDunn]

There are many treatments that have critical temperature range windows to be effective. OA as a vapor treatment is good at all temperature ranges. It's important that the bees not be in a tight cluster though, or it would be less effective.

[@Jim26D]

Any thoughts on mineral oil fogging for varroa?

[@FrederickDunn]

Yes, my thoughts and advice is to never use it. Someone somewhere suggested that without doing any science to completely evaluate it. I will give you a quote from Randy Oliver of Scientific Beekeeping, but in all of my years of formal and practical study, mineral oil has never been recommended. Randy's Quote - "Oh my gosh! Fogging with a Burgess fogger. Lots of bees have been killed. Numerous fires started when the fog hit a spark from a smoker. Not to mention what oil fog does when you breathe it: “While repeated exposure to conventionally-refined mineral oils may cause pulmonary disease as well as severe dermatoses and cancer of the skin and scrotum, lipoid pneumonia is the major health hazard associated with highly refined mineral oils … While the course of lipoid pneumonia can be asymptomatic in some individuals, in others its symptoms can range from occasional cough to severe, debilitating dyspnea and pulmonary illness, occasionally ending in death.” (Palmer 1990). Think twice before you go exposing yourself to an aromatic toxic fog-there are safer ways to deal with the mite!" Ref: ScientificBeekeeping.com

[@martinacovey4471]

Why do we have to remove honey super (bees food) before treating with oxcylic acid?

[@FrederickDunn]

Hi Martina, those are the current regulations as part of OA being permitted as a treatment here in the United States. Since Oxalic Acid is already in almost every honey super even when untreated, I have lots of questions myself. I'm hitting walls on that one and I think they are failing SAFE by saying "remove honey supers during treatment". I have gone out for bids with several labs that test honey. I want to learn more about the pre-treatment and post-treatment honey OA levels. None of the honey testing labs are offering Oxalic Acid Testing. The health risks pertaining to Oxalic Acid ingestion is focused on those eating large quantities of plants, not honey. With the trace levels of Oxalic Acid in the honey, an individual would have to ingest gallons of honey to risk. Get this, our bodies also produce oxalate (Oxalic Acid) on our own! The largest health concerns deal with crystals forming in the digestive system (colon) or the Kidneys. For most people, these compounds are then eliminated in the stool or urine. However, for sensitive individuals, high-oxalate diets have been linked to an increased risk of kidney stones and other health problems. Now that you have read all of this, IF the honey is being left for the bees and will not be consumed by people, you can leave them ON. :)

[@martinacovey4471]

@@FrederickDunn thank you so much! What a great explanation, this eases our mind.

[@davidkeitel5967]

If we cant breathe this, how can the bees survive this stuff?

[@FrederickDunn]

Hi David, bees don't have lungs. You can see the bee's response to it in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnPXqpiOm5uZoMU

[@Peter-od7op]

Fred my paper work says no more than 5 amps. How do you control the amps

[@FrederickDunn]

I don't control the amps, I control the amount of time the pan is being heated. I use a 12v battery... no amp meter, so I would run a test in order to learn when your particular pan completes the sublimation process and then unplug, or un-clip from the battery just a few seconds before that limit arrives. With the ProVap 110, it has internal controls and never overheats. The less expensive pans are capable of melting down completely.

[@dsstroyer]

Thanks

[@FrederickDunn]

You're welcome!

[@lizbjanson42]

I just got a nuc with brood. Can I use OA vaporization now?

[@FrederickDunn]

Yes you can, but since the brood is covered/capped, you'll have to do three cycles/treatments 7 days apart.

[@lizbjanson42]

@@FrederickDunn Got it...because you have to get all the capped brood. Thanks!

[@BarryBirther]

Thanks for the great video. Does the Oxalic Acid somehow get transfered to the honey?

[@FrederickDunn]

Oxalic Acid (being plant-based) is always present in honey no matter if the hive is treated or not. You are to remove any honey supers with honey that is to be consumed by people, however, the pre and post-treatment levels of OA are almost not discernible. As this is a frequently expressed concern, I will speak about it in some detail in this Friday's FAQ 37.

[@BarryBirther]

@@FrederickDunn Thank you for your response. Thanks for the very informative, inspiring and entertaining videos. You have made the decision to become a new beekeeper FAR easier. What camera equipment do you use to bring us those incredible videos?

[@FrederickDunn]

@@BarryBirther This video was shot with the Sony AX-100. thanks again!

[@Light_Worker]

So, if I have 4 big boxes and smaller for the honey on the top which makes total 5. How many minutes and tsp do I use ? Thank you

[@FrederickDunn]

1/4 tsp ber box, but if you have honey on that you plan to use, OAV isn't your treatment solution until the honey supers are off.

[@Light_Worker]

Frederick Dunn so, what month would you advice ti start to do in NW ? As I understand correctly if my 5 boxes stacked on top of each other all I have to do is multiply 1/4 tsp by 5 ? And the same with timing ? How long does it takes for each 1/4 tsp to burn ? Thank a lot !

[@HaikuAutomation]

You either are sponsored and given this stuff, or a good sales man :) Either way, TY for being a good guy. Keep up the great work. Chemicals to kill things, not quite balanced perspective. If you are afraid of the stuff you are using, its a sign there is something wrong with the approach? And no demonstration in this video, but lets see the actual use.

[@FrederickDunn]

Hellos Haiku... I'm not sponsored, but I would be open to that in the future! You're down on the method without a demonstration, so here is the demonstration and thank you for watching and taking your valuable time to comment: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnPXqpiOm5uZoMU

[@shotgunbobby11]

Is this treatment considered organic?

[@FrederickDunn]

It does not impact organic status at all.

[@shotgunbobby11]

Frederick Dunn thanks

[@wadebarnes6720]

If you know somebody that needs one I have one I will share because I know they are expensive and everybody can't afford one

[@iamchillydogg]

I read it acts like diatomaceous earth and physically damages the exoskeleton.

[@FrederickDunn]

It doesn't have the physical traits of DE and can't physically lacerate the exoskeleton. DE would also harm the bees as well as the developing larva.

[@mihaiilie8808]

Formic acid- you can use it all year long and kills varroa even in capped brood cells but also kills manny bees.Oxalic acid- i use it only after cold started and the bees dont have larvae because it doesnt kills varroa under capped cells.There is the risk that the queen might die so i isolate the queens especially because the bees dont have eggs and larvae when i treat and they cant make another queen.Oxalic its a bio treatment that kills less bees than formic acid .Great advice about the 3M masks.I would ask you what you think about Dee and Ed Lusby and Michael Bush small bees theory.

[@FrederickDunn]

Have you had Queens die after OA vapor treatments? I'd like to know more about Queen losses.. thanks.

[@mihaiilie8808]

Frederick Dunn I didnt lost a queen from OA ,even when i didnt isolated the queen during the treatment.But in my case ,queens are much harder to get than normal because of those bee eater birds that hunt the queens while they are mating so im always affraid that i could loose the queen.Here we also spray the bees ,even in cluster with oxalic acid solution wich its a much tougher treatment than sublimation and probably that led to the belief that OA can kill the queen.Also,its possible that the queen might stop from laying eggs for a week but compared to 2-3 weeks stop from thyme oil ,the oxalic treatment its milder.

[@mihaiilie8808]

Frederick Dunn Also,the Oxalic treatment starts to be efective a day after the treatment and up to a week or more .Its possible that the bees could ingest the AO and that increases the acidity of the hemolimf that the varroa feed on.

[@navybaby911]

Hey there, need some real good help. Myself and two other people have this exact same problem. Have a brood box then the flow hive super. No queen excluder the first year. Honey is made in the brood box only..... second year. Suggestion from the flow hive people.....pull one flow hive frame, replace with a normal waxed frame. Honey produced on the waxed frame, but again not in the flow hive.......third year...spray sugar water on the frames to entice the bees to put honey into the cells.....one flow frame had ten cells a little honey in them , then they stopped putting honey in the cells. This is the fourth year....will try your suggestion of putting a med box on it, then put the flow hive on it, when needed....I'm at Witt's end. I'm ready to quit with this flow hive system...I was a very strong proponent of flow hive, but right now I have my doubts. Any suggestions?

[@FrederickDunn]

Hi Raymond, you don't need to do anything to prep the flow-frames. I hope you do use a deep, followed by a medium super of normal frames. You will have your answer right then, if the colony is large enough and productive enough to fill flow frames. If they can't fill the medium super, then the colony just isn't productive enough to even think about filling flow frames. You'll also have your answer as to what's really going on, as it's not the frames, it's the bees. A strong colony will even put honey in glass jars, or fill rapid-rounds with comb, no need to prep, highly productive bees will fill every available space with comb and honey. I have some colonies that I don't put flow-supers on as they are just strong enough to take care of themselves and they stink at making surplus honey.

[@navybaby911]

Understand, however.......I as well as two other people are having the exact problem.....if I pull the flow frame and replace , they fill a normal waxed frame. They then start to go back to the brood box and put honey there! This is happening to three of us. This is what I am not understanding...I total believe in the flow hive...but we three can not get it to work......broodbox, then when filled , put flow super on....they just refuse to go up .....they just want to stay in a brood box... I'm in Dayton Ohio, she corner.....I. Everything your saying to do, we are doing. This will be my fourth year with the flow hive and I've just never gotten it to work...hives are fantastically strong.......I thank you for all your assistance.....ray

[@FrederickDunn]

@@navybaby911 That's frustrating Raymond. I'm fresh out of ideas on that one. I've had one colony in the past that didn't do much with them, but the rest have. I wish I had a special method to get them going for you. Cedar Anderson takes scoops of chunk honey and smears it into the center of the flow-frames and apparently the bees redistribute it and begin working the frames. But I haven't tried that personally.

[@geraldweesner2363]

Hmmm, treating mite resistant bees might be exactly the wrong thing to do.

[@FrederickDunn]

You have the option to let them die and then work from survivor stock. Each beekeeper will have to make their own decisions.

[@janedough8733]

Need to grow your beard back Mr Dun .....just saying 😏

[@FrederickDunn]

You know what's funny, almost no one noticed that I shaved :) You just may be the first Jane! I was recently using some dive equipment that didn't seal very well with my facial hair, so I've had to be cleanly shaven for a while. I may go back to whiskers in the fall :)

[@janedough8733]

@@FrederickDunn well funny thing is I've been wanting to say something for a minute (since I first saw it) lol when I saw this video I just had to could no longer not say nothing!

[@FrederickDunn]

@@janedough8733 Did you notice that I also had my hair cut? :) I am sooo much faster now....

[@janedough8733]

@@FrederickDunn Yes! Noticed that too!😕.....lol I like the 'old' Mr Dunn!😂

[@VidKatMA1]

@@FrederickDunn I noticed...and I must say...I agree with Jane. ;) My husband had to shave too...forced masks & all...

[@kamalalshaer7982]

Grams 2 or 3 Grams

[@FrederickDunn]

Always follow the label and dose for the number of brood boxes.

[@kamalalshaer7982]

I have TEMPERATURE CONTROLLED OXALIC ACID SUBLIMATOR at wat temperature 🌡 and man

[@geraldweesner2363]

Watch Varroa Resistant Bees by Honey Bees UK and see if you still want to treat the bees

[@FrederickDunn]

Thanks for sharing. Genetics are the long game for sure.

[@eddielloyd13]

Are you not using Dadant or langstroft hives. Flow hives. 🤔 U couldn't do that on a commercial basis...

[@FrederickDunn]

Hi Eddie, I have Langstroth Standard hives also. True, it's unlikely that you'd want Flow-Hives for a commercial operation.

[@Misssssysparkles]

lucky we dont have varroa in australia (yet)

[@TheGuerrCZ]

I envy you. Greetings from middle Europe

[@mihaiilie8808]

You have Varroa in Australia.

[@tinkertailor7385]

@@mihaiilie8808 No. We don't have Varroa Destructor. There is however occasional infestations of Verroa Jacobsoni in Asian honeybee colonies in the tropical north of the country. These don't seem to become persistent.