Dr John Inge, Lord Bishop of Worcester | Christianity SHOULD allow gay marriage - 7/8 | Oxford Union

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Currently, Church of England members of the clergy are not permitted to carry out same-sex marriages, whilst homosexual Anglicans are required to remain celibate. In recent years, however, the Church of Wales, the Scottish Episcopal Church, and, most recently, the Methodist Church, have all embraced marriage equality. In February 2023, the General Synod met to discuss the issue, raising the question across the Anglican Communion and Christendom: should Christianity extend the sacraments to same same-sex marriages?
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[@muokwuestanley]

I have one question. Why do Christians want to follow Christ in there own personal term and conditions and not on the terms and conditions of Christ?

[@Joe-uw5rv]

It's the perennial sin, the reaching for the apple.

[@spdomingoo]

That, is the right question

[@lyndalmislov2378]

Hi Muokwue. I would suggest that many people identifying as Christian have not had a true conversion, otherwise they would be following the terms and conditions of Christ. Unfortunately there are too many false conversions where Christianity is presented as a happy, blessed, peaceful life and God wants you to be happy. This is leading many "Believers "astray. Just look at how people in Jesus time lived once they were converted. If they were slaves, they continued to be slaves, if they were poor, they continued to be poor. Many were shunned and thrown out of their synagogue and community and many hunted and thrown to the lions. Following the teachings of Christ is no easy thing and is not to be entered into lightly. True believers are those that live by the word uncompromisingly, and sadly these days, are fewer and fewer. I hope this is helpful. Lyndal.

[@chrisbrown8640]

He said " STOP sinning or something worse will happen to you ! " He NEVER said " I'll teach you how to come to terms with your sin..."

[@DoubleplusUngoodthinkful]

Because they are not, in fact, Christians.

[@mukundaneshepherdcrystal6544]

This is what happens when Men go to school to learn about God, and rather not have a personal relationship and be taught of God. This is what happens when people take scriptures out of context for personal interpretation. But there's a reformation and revival coming across the horizon. We overcame.

[@doctor1alex]

It’s like there is no fear of God and no faith that the Gospel is the power of God for salvation.

[@chrisbrown8640]

@@doctor1alex Interesting no matter how much some preachers try to flip, twist and spin the Scripture, it always sprngs back into shape again......

[@paulfox3235]

Amen

[@cristiani.lepindea8676]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnachXeOlMmkhdE

[@maartenkeus8627]

There will be a revival brother, let us keep praying!

[@josee.1308]

"I don't want a church that moves with the world, I want a church that moves the world." G.K. Chesterton

[@SolZaer]

The gentleman before this one had a good quote about the world

[@polafanous6154]

"If the world is against the truth, then I am against the world." - Saint Athanasius of Alexandria

[@berniefynn6623]

As long as they have fear off offending,they will never move the world. Jesus did not concern himself with offending, he told it as it was.

[@pdss2528]

considering the atraucities the church has committed in the past and christians being so hateful among certain groups of people they are moving the world but not in the way lord jesus christ would want.

[@berniefynn6623]

@@pdss2528 people ,NOT the church were misguided in the past and telling homosexuals they are sinners is NOT hate you secular call anything christian hate, bloody arrogance of you people.

[@marksutton5540]

An Anglican priest says to a Catholic priest "I'm glad I'm not a Catholic" and the Catholic priest says "I'm glad you're not a Catholic as well."

[@gerrymanda983]

Didn't the pope allow ssm?

[@marksutton5540]

@@gerrymanda983 he seems to be working (or is that Woking) on it.

[@LeonMortgage]

@@gerrymanda983 No he stated clearly it's a sin

[@ThisIsMyRectangle]

That's a really bizarre thing to jest

[@Ozgipsy]

Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins - Revelations, 18

[@karimparker1323]

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

[@sharonellis5419]

Amen

[@cristiani.lepindea8676]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnachXeOlMmkhdE

[@davidgrosvenor1]

Wow! This is a disgrace! Read the Bible, Matt 5:31 Jesus does speak of the only reason for divorce!

[@karimparker1323]

@@davidgrosvenor1 I guess he never read Romans 1.26; 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

[@gemmabramley3748]

I walked into my church a gay woman still married still to my ex. My friend witnessed to me how God had changed her. After a few months of seeking to be both gay and a Christian, I cried out to the Lord in my bed one night and he convinced me of my sin and took it away from me! I do not know see women in that way. Seek the kingdom of God. The Bible is clear!

[@icthys2024]

God be with you! Keep the faith.

[@RenaissanceEarCandy]

I'm sorry but you're in denial. You cannot change your sexuality.

[@amritaasher3855]

I find it interesting that the Lord Bishop accepts that the teachings of Church of England on Divorce goes against the very words of our Lord!! Looks like his argument is that, if we can go against the Lord's words regarding divorce, we can very well do for homosexual marriages as well.. Well done Lord Bishop, well done... So now the members of the Church of England atleast knows where not to continue as members if they want to follow the Lord!

[@MarkEliasGrant]

It's important to consider the historical and cultural context of the verse you're quoting from Leviticus. In the ancient world, particularly in patriarchal societies, male-on-male sexual acts were often associated with dominance, power, and humiliation-things that would happen in warfare or tribal conquests. This wasn’t about consensual relationships, but rather acts of control and violence. The laws in Leviticus were likely addressing those harmful practices, not loving, consensual relationships like we see today. As Christians, we believe that Jesus brought a new covenant centered on love, compassion, and grace. Jesus himself never spoke about homosexuality, but he did emphasize that the greatest commandments are to love God and to love your neighbor (Matthew 22:37-40). Jesus reached out to marginalized people and showed love where others offered judgment, and as his followers, we are called to do the same. The heart of Christianity is love, and our focus should be on how we treat others. Are we showing love and compassion, or are we using ancient texts to judge and exclude? Everyone is made in God's image and deserves dignity and respect. Christianity is about walking in humility and loving others as Christ loved us, without conditions or exceptions.

[@waywayprice]

His whole argument seems to be held that science is the guide to interpret the Bible, not Christ’s teachings.

[@collins9383]

A wicked wolf moving among the flock. By their ways, words and deeds ye shall know them. Galatians 1:8kjv "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

[@scented-leafpelargonium3366]

Collins : And the paedophile priests too. No one here in Ireland trusts them anymore. 🤯

[@cliffhansen1389]

So sad that someone with the title of bishop would 1) clearly take Scripture out of context either willingly or because he is that ignorant of the context, 2) not understand when the Bible is DESCRIBING and when it is PRESCRIBING behaviors (i.e. note every time there are multiple wives DESCRIBED trouble ensues from that whereas only 1 to 1 marriage is ever PRESCRIBED), and 3) he would decide to understand what the Bible is saying based on what the world tells him is truth when Jesus clearly stated He is the Truth.

[@Eddie33154]

"Bishop", like "Pastor", like "Apostle", like "Teacher", WAS NEVER, IS NEVER A TITLE. It is a calling, a function, a job description given by God. God never bestowed titles on any New Testament servant of His.

[@chrisbrown8640]

Signs of the Times....sodomy, thuggery, buggery, beastiality, blasphemy....Heaven knows....anything goes !

[@Eddie33154]

@@chrisbrown8640 It - the FILTH will all have a sudden end. The King of Heaven is coming.

[@MarkEliasGrant]

It's important to consider the historical and cultural context of the verse you're quoting from Leviticus. In the ancient world, particularly in patriarchal societies, male-on-male sexual acts were often associated with dominance, power, and humiliation-things that would happen in warfare or tribal conquests. This wasn’t about consensual relationships, but rather acts of control and violence. The laws in Leviticus were likely addressing those harmful practices, not loving, consensual relationships like we see today. As Christians, we believe that Jesus brought a new covenant centered on love, compassion, and grace. Jesus himself never spoke about homosexuality, but he did emphasize that the greatest commandments are to love God and to love your neighbor (Matthew 22:37-40). Jesus reached out to marginalized people and showed love where others offered judgment, and as his followers, we are called to do the same. The heart of Christianity is love, and our focus should be on how we treat others. Are we showing love and compassion, or are we using ancient texts to judge and exclude? Everyone is made in God's image and deserves dignity and respect. Christianity is about walking in humility and loving others as Christ loved us, without conditions or exceptions.

[@NhwNews]

Wolves in sheep's clothing.

[@LeonMortgage]

This was settled for thousands of years across every Christian denomination until now. The absolute arrogance of this man to suggest that the entire Christian culture has been wrong for this long on this topic. I pray for his soul.

[@MyndMythos]

Fr

[@rickytavilla4259]

Amen

[@scented-leafpelargonium3366]

Leon Johnson : How many "thousands of years" have the Christian "denominations" existed for? 🤔

[@LeonMortgage]

@@scented-leafpelargonium3366 Catholicism is 2 thousand years old. The Orthodox schism happened in 1054 and the Protestant Reformation happened in the 1500s.

[@josee.1308]

You have a good point of view but there is a fact that is wrong. Martin Lutero was the first protestant of the Catholic(=universal) church and it not has been thousands of years of it. Only a couple of hundreds years. But you are right in your meaning of your message.

[@sivuyilejonas]

Ladies and Gentlemen. Here are 7 simple points as to why the church cannot support same-sex marriage: 1. God is the author of marriage, not humanity. Therefore, Humanity doesn’t have the right or authority to define marriage. Genesis 2 teaches us that when God saw that Adam was alone, he didn’t build Adam a brother or another Adam. He built Adam a woman. A Christian woman is designed by God to fulfil 3 purposes: 1. Procreation. God commanded the man to “be fruitful and multiply. (Genesis 1), Adam cannot fulfil this command with a man. Same sex couples cannot produce children. A man needs a woman for this. 2. Illustration. A marriage is suppose to reflect what God’s design for what a family is. “Therefore a man shall leave his mother and father and be joined to his wife and they shall become one flesh”. When God look at what a family is, he sees a man and woman joined together, nothing else. 3. Sanctification. a Christian marriage is suppose to reflect Jesus’s relationship with the church. They are one body. Just as a man and a woman married together are one flesh, one body. 2. Jesus himself is against homosexuality. Why? Because of the Holy Trinity, Jesus is God. Jesus was there when Sodom and Gomorrah was being destroyed for rape, homosexuality, and other wickedness. Jesus is the author of Leviticus, a book which contains the laws given to Israel, which condemns same sex sexual activities as an abomination. You cannot separate Jesus from the God the father and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus himself said “I have not come to destroy the law but to fulfil it”. 3. There are three types of laws in the bible. The moral law (summaries as the Ten Commandments), the Civil law (laws given to the nation of Israel, and ceremonial law (laws given on how to worship the True God rightly). Homosexuality being a sin is a moral law. This means that it is a law that needs to be preserved for all time, just like how murder and stealing are moral laws. Moral law transcends time and culture. We are all, believer and non-believer, sinner and non-sinner, are responsible to the moral law. 4. Homosexuality is a dangerous sin to commit. It is the only sin in the bible that God calls “an abomination” and in the Book of Romans, it is the one of the few sins where God says “there is a penalty in the flesh” if you commit this sin. This is why the LGBT community has the highest rates of Sexual diseases, high suicide rates, and various mental health issues. This is a judgement from God. This sin cannot be taken lightly. 5. The bible view on “Love” and the world’s view on “Love” are completely different. The bible doesn’t teach you to “follow your heart”, in fact, the bible teaches the opposite. In the book of Jeremiah, God says that “the heart is wicked and deceitful amongst all things, who can know it.” Since God is all loving, he defines what love is. God defines love in the Ten Commandments. We are called to love God first and then love others. This means that obeying God is a Christian’s first and top priority. Even Jesus himself, after saving a woman from persecution in the Book of Matthew, told the woman to “SIN NO MORE”. As a Christian, I cannot love you and see you embracing an act which is against God and will lead you to hell. 6. Finally, the bible is not outdated, because God is not outdated. God is an all powerful being who exists out of time. Do you really believe that such a God would give us a holy book that needs to be updated and complement to the modern culture? Absolutely not. The bible, in the book of Timothy, makes it clear that it is “a complete book, fit to equip a man for all good works”. 7. Since that fall of Adam in Genesis 3, we are all Sinners. This means we are all bent towards ourselves and not towards God. The book of Psalms echoes this point: “there is nobody, not one, that seeks for God”. We are all wretched sinners and everyone deserves to go to hell. God, through his love for us, sent his son to take all of our sins and die the death we should have done. We are saved through Jesus Christ my brothers and sisters. Therefore, Jesus himself said that if we truly loved him “we would keep his commandments”. This means that as Christians, we are ultimately called to OBEDIENCE, not just love. Love is a part of the nature of a Christian, it is not the be all and end all of what a Christian is. We must obey first, then love second. God himself in the book of Jeremiah, chapter 3 calls us to return to him, not to Love others harder. Brothers and Sisters, from the book of Genesis, to the book of Leviticus, and the Book of Romans, it is clear that Homosexuality is not to be supported, embraced, celebrated, and accepted. Remember that our Goal is be like Christ, not like the world. We cannot adopt what the world wants, only what God wants, which is obedience, repentance, and a complete hatred of sin, not the sinner. If the church becomes like the world and thinks like the world, then we are mocking the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and disgracing the Gospel of Christ which saved us. Non-believers do not have the right to tell us what love is, because God has already done that.

[@Boanerges7]

Well stated. Just one comment. RC Sproul once replied to a similar statement regarding the sin vs. the sinner argument. He replied "it's not the sin that is cast into the pit, but the sinner. Biblically, that's accurate by choice. Read Romans 1.

[@qwertu7]

Underrated comment

[@raltawnliani5384]

Good answer ! Superb !!

[@payaj2815]

Amen amen amen well said.

[@chrissobolewski5509]

Amen

[@rah1721]

It is as though this Bishop has never been to Sunday school, let alone seminary. These stretches and conflations he is making are a disgrace to the plain written word and the consistent historic teaching of the church.

[@gerrycortez4656]

I only have bad words for john

[@robwaters7021]

Well there you have it. Either conform to the pattern of the world, as has been elegantly argued for by the 'good' doctor, or follow Christ and His word. I thank John Inge for making the case for cleaving to the body of true believers and exposing the corruption of the 'established church'. This is a monumental time where we are seeing the separation of Sheep and goats.

[@mbal4052]

Amen 🙏🏻

[@jackjonmonaghan8758]

I disagree on everything said here. The Church should not be influenced by society - The Church should influence society. Go and repent and read Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

[@pistol3333]

Wow, great advice! I'm reading my first Bonhoeffer book now: "Christ the Center". Looking at the state of Christianity today, it is hard to believe his lectures were less than 100 years ago. I was thinking about how Bonheoffer would respond when I was listening to Alan Wilson's cringy description of Christ's marriage to the Church.

[@jackjonmonaghan8758]

@@pistol3333 I would recommend reading Bonhoeffer's The Cost of Discipleship when you can - its simply one of the greatest books ever written. I'll be sure to read the book you just mentioned soon! :)

[@joe7626]

It’s the war between religions that are causing thousands to die every day. Let people believe what they want and live in peace.

[@pistol3333]

@@joe7626 Will you please leave me in peace and let me believe what I want to believe?

[@tonymercer7759]

Absolutely. The point also made by Calvin Robinson in his address.

[@snowdog9954]

So he bemoans that "society is ahead of the church"? Provides a word salad about science (of course he does, he is first and foremost a scientist) and discoveries in evolution. He seems confused about the differences between sex, love and marriage and mixes up the secular and religious. How is this man a Bishop and in what way is he representing Christ? Just appaling.

[@ChristianCommentonEverything]

The main thrust of his message is "we been pathetically weak on other matters so lets give in on this one too". Embarrassing nonesense.

[@macrisbahemuka-ui4sr]

His Arguments hold no water

[@albertagyei-twum1153]

And you call yourself a follower of Christ .and a bishop of his flock. Which church will you present to Christ on his return . A church that follows the faf and fancy of changing society. So if the majority of the western society did not accept homosexuality the church wouldn't have changed. A church that is so timid to tell the truth

[@konmeilaktan8968]

I'm no bishop, but i believe i understand the scripture way better than him.

[@phillipfriend8505]

We are witnessing the great falling away as was prophesied for the last days.

[@mathyre232]

One of them; probably more coming

[@philipbenjamin4720]

He lies and lies. Far more same sex attracted people than those who are not are depressed, mentally ill, and suicidal - and whether or not they are socially accepted. How convenient that this lying bishop should not bother to reveal this - instead using it as false evidence for his belief that the church is failing people who are dealing with these things.

[@neilmccall5311]

And why are they depressed and mentally ill? Because hard-hearted "Christian" have shut them out from the grace of God on the ground of their sexuality. They don't, do this to gossips or gluttons, or the lazy or argumentative it's just gay people that get this abuse,.

[@peterwallis4288]

​@@neilmccall5311they are not shut out. They are welcomed. They cannit, however, get married.

[@gpclawmonkey]

"The bible never gives a reason why". St Paul provides a fairly straightforward answer to this in chapter 6 of 1 Corinthians verse 18 "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body" Sexual sin is a sin against owns own body; the place where the Spirit of God now desires to tabernacle

[@gollymissholly8791]

Notice he doesn't share a single scripture verse to support his views. And how he merely blankets over the idea of the gospels with his own ideas. Which are worldly ideas. Everything under the sun was designed with a purpose according to the LORD our GOD'S creation. And we already know that we are still living in a fallen world and that humans are the purveyors of evil. So please answer these questions and tell me: what purpose does homosexual acts serve? Whose purpose do they serve? And how can they or do they glorify our Father in Heaven?

[@Racingbro1986]

Just another church where Christ will remove his lamp-stand. Conforming to the world brings death. Gods wisdom is foolishness to man.

[@germ12319]

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Romans 1:20‭-‬25 NASB

[@theopneustos-eureka]

My mom: Why are you laughing so hard? Me: He said society is morally ahead of the church 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@lolololgii754]

how do you based your criteria of what is morally right or wrong without basing it in religous perspective?

[@theopneustos-eureka]

@@lolololgii754 Exactly my point. Thank you.

[@Nai61a]

@@lolololgii754 Which "religious perspective" would that be?

[@josephsamuel267]

Where is the leadership of the church heading? Three bishops spoke at the union. All the three spoke for acceptance of gay marriage. If the church is moving in this direction, I want out.

[@mariamatusiewicz4280]

ABOMINATION.

[@corecriticalful]

There's a lot to unpack in this segment but here is an obvious one. 08:12 Dr Inge speaks about how Paul writes in Galatians 3:28 that "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus", but at the same time neglected to mention Paul also wrote to Corinth in 1 Corinthians 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inheret the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality...(cont.)". It is plain to see Dr Inge is picking and choosing what part of the Bible is to be believed and taught, and what is not, based on current cultural norms rather than the authority of Scripture being divinely inspired by God. If we interpret the Bible this way, it holds no objective value whatsoever, and Christianity will become a subjective, 'feel-good' experience that you can warp and twist whichever way you want. Did you know the Bible says "There is no God." in Psalm 53:1? Doesn't matter what the rest of the verse says, now I get to freely use the Bible this way to preach there is no God because Dr Inge says this form of interpretation is ok.

[@TheOriginalSOOTY]

Should be ashamed of himself, cherry picking and taking out of context from the Bible to try and make a point and case for his own belief, rather than follow the Bible and God's word to teach the gospel and the truth.

[@F7dJa]

Absolute blasphemy. I had no idea the state of the CoE. Lord have mercy. 'Bishop', how can you use scripture as ones basis of argument when you long ago have abandoned it's inerrancy?

[@cnewton61]

Should we reinterpret Jesus words? Mk 10:7-9 ‘For this reason a will leave his 8 and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

[@scented-leafpelargonium3366]

Craig Newton : Why so many Christian divorces then? 🤔

[@Zz-lm1no]

Warnings against False Teachers Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons. These people are hypocrites and liars, and their consciences are dead. 1 Timothy 4:1-2. The Lord knows who are his.

[@adelbadawy7861]

The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water- 11 the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter. "Revelation 8:10"

[@scented-leafpelargonium3366]

Adel Badaway : Follow the yellow brick road...

[@dwpetrak]

Finally a well-formed and well delivered debate position from the Pro side. I was worried that only one side showed up.

[@davidoneill9244]

Thank God for Catholicism. Anglicanism is spreading its ungodly thoughts throughout the world. We should remember that the CofE was founded purely & simply to allow Henry VIII to marry whilst his legal wife was still living.

[@alasdairgeddes]

Other denominations are available...

[@bradberkely7448]

Bergoglio is spreading the exact same ungodly thoughts and he sits at the head of the Catholic church

[@Parks179-h]

@@alasdairgeddes lol

[@deborahtruthwillsetyoufree4217]

There are numerous gay clergy in the catholic church which the church turns a blind eye to.

[@scented-leafpelargonium3366]

​@@alasdairgeddes Other religions are still available too, or none. 🙃

[@adamrios3141]

Leviticus 18:22 and the lord spoke to Moses saying you shall not lay with a male as if it was a woman for it is an abomination draw the line repent change come to Christ

[@rl7012]

So random blind forces produced a self replicating organism? Even the simplest of organisms has millions of sequence specific parts and exacting chemistry but blind chance is supposed to have produced the most exquisitely and information rich piece of engineering to ever exist?

[@lizmonard]

Women should not be pastors. The minister acts in place of Christ the bridegroom, and the church is the bride..

[@philipbenjamin4720]

The women head covering bible passage he mentioned as part of claiming that Christians are often having to look the other way - pretend particular passages do not exist - is complete nonsense. There are two kinds of teaching in the bible - and it's perfectly clear (to almost everyone except this bishop) which kind one is reading: 1. Teaching which isn't contextualised - universal principles 2. Directions for how to respond to a contextual problem but which applies universal principles.

[@LBelieveinJesus]

I wear a head covering because that's how I feel I can please God most by obeying every word of scripture. But this is a symbol to the angels of God to say I've not seen Jesus in the flesh and yet I trust in him. It's also to show headship under the husband as provider and defender just as Jesus is both our provision and our defense before judgement. I wear it because God uses Paul to tell us to. I trust the teachings of Paul and so this is one small way I can show God I've listened to him and obeyed. Sometimes you can't grab a head covering quick enough like if I was in labour praying my way through it(Jesus got me through that) but in a public setting of church God does want that for his people as identified through his word. And it's ok if we look different to the world but we should look more similar to the early church. Regardless of what you believe about head covering there's no comparison between that and gay men marrying. Being shaven as a woman is embarrassing but it's not on the same level as being stoned in the old testament which is the old punishment for this lifestyle. God cares about sin so much that he sent Jesus to die for those infected with it. He's the cure and that's all we need. The Christian woman who wants to please Jesus will search the scriptures and come to her own conclusions having summed up the entire argument and looking at history also.

[@zolac9732]

Lies, you're using the same manipulative language he is using. Who gets to decide what is and what isn't contextualized.

[@pdss2528]

its wierd that christians ignore many things written in the bible, for example wearing of mixed fabrics being an abomination, remarriage, even the stonning for adultry, but only everyone one wants to cherry pick is homosexuality being against christ. either follow everything wether good or radical it is in bible or dont but dont cherry pick.

[@joellaz9836]

That’s cause homosexuality is also condemned in the New Testament while wearing mixed fabrics is not condemned in the New Testament.

[@Kwisatz-Chaderach]

With the coming of Christ, the Law of Moses was abrogated even for the Jewish people. Jesus “canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross” (Col. 2:14). Paul tells us that we must ” let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ” (Col. 2:16). Rather than fulfilling the Law of Moses, Paul points us toward fulfilling the Law of Christ: “To those outside the [Mosaic] law I became as one outside the [Mosaic] law-not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ-that I might win those outside the [Mosaic] law” (1 Cor. 9:21). He wrote also, “Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ” (Gal. 6:2). The Law of Christ, or the New Law, is the second major revelation of positive divine law. It contains the laws set forth by Christ and the apostles in the deposit of faith. Some of these are moral (prohibitions on murder, adultery, and polygamy), some ceremonial (baptism, the Eucharist, Sunday worship), and some are civil or judicial (e.g., “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities”-Rom. 13:1-and the Church’s social teaching as grounded in the deposit of faith).

[@Charlestve]

I love all people regardless of their race, gender, social status or sexual orientation etc etc. The Church is a house of God governed by God's doctrine which is in the Bible. The church must love and accommodate all people. But we as sinners must repent and walk in the knowledge and guidance of Christ. You as a Bishop must lead the people according to the teachings of Christ and the Most High God. God is Spirit and therefore above science. Do not therefore approach God from a scientific perspective. Teach the people repentance and counsel them into Christ. Seek the face of God through the Holy Spirit to change the deep false spirit (sin within man) so they can heal and transform. We have shortcomings for which God forgives us, as we confess to him and seek to change into his true likeness. Any sin for which God in His infinite wisdom have destroyed a people and land for must be serious to him, therefore don't seek popularity, fame or multitudes of people for God, rather teach the people God's Word. sciences are miracles God have revealed to man. God has infinite miracles yet to be revealed unto man. Teach repentance from sin so that the lost can come into union with God to enjoy his peace, love and rest.

[@bradycarden5589]

His main argument seems to be: “Since the church has slipped on some things, we should also slip on this.”

[@theologicallyinformed4]

Wonderful presentation, Bishop Inge! As for the "clear teaching of scripture," being clamored about in the comments, what about the role of women, slavery, OT polygamy, and Christ's clear teaching about divorce and remarriage within scripture? The Church's understanding evolved on these issues by the prompting of the Holy Spirit. For you see, the Holy Spirit was sent to "lead you [the church] into all truth." Christ himself said in John 16, "I have much to teach you, but you cannot bear it." Thus, Christ sent the Holy Spirit to "lead us into all truth," as it says in John 16. Is it possible that the Church is being awakened to its' misunderstanding? Did this not happen with the ending of slavery and ordination of women to the priesthood, not to mention other critical issues? Don't misunderstand, I'm not necessarily endorsing either view (for or against gay marriage in the church), but I am asking that sincere Christians pray and think through the possibility that God is behind this stir in the Church. I'm still praying through these issues myself, but I ask that we not name call those with opposing views. We should instead seek God's face and let His will be done in the Church. Peace.

[@philipbenjamin4720]

No - the teaching of the bible has not evolved on polygamy. What change are you claiming has happened with polygamy? The behaviour of some who claim a faith has changed in respect of the role of women but not the bible's teaching. Divorce and remarriage teaching hasn't changed - there has been greater consideration to what actions by a partner in a marriage amount to them saying in their attitude that they don't wish to be married anymore. For example if a man sleeps with five women - of if a man beats his wife - that's him acting as if he no longer wishes to be married. He is ending the marriage. But that isn't a change of bible teaching on remarriage. Yes there are people who profess a faith who don't obey the bible on remarriage - but that doesn't mean that the bible's teaching has changed. The slavery discussed in the bible is not of the same nature as the slave trade of more recent centuries. And it's wrong to say that the bible doesn't suggest argue against it - Paul suggests that slaves gain their freedom if they can - see 1 Corinthians 7:21.

[@theologicallyinformed4]

@@philipbenjamin4720 The OT patriarchs were polygamist for the most part. Before you say that I'm not reading narrative properly, or that God condemned their sin, let me flesh it out. Polygamy was rampant among the OT saints, but God never explicitly condemned their polygamy. Why didn't God send one of the prophets to condemn polygamy? Wouldn't that have sent a clear message? It seems God sent the prophets to condemn many actions (Samuel with Saul and Nathan with David). Why not also condemn their polygamy and call them to biblical marriage....one man and one woman? Perhaps this didn't happen because the OT saints didn't view marriage in the way that we modern Christians do. As for divorce and remarriage, scripture gives only two valid reasons for divorce and remarriage: extra-marital relationships and abandonment. However, many churches remarry couples that don't fit into either of the aforementioned categories. Pastors will preach about marriage, and then say that if you find yourself in an irregular marriage (e.g. your previous divorce was unbiblical and you remarried), then you must repent of the previous divorce and stay committed to your new marriage. Yet, Christ clearly said that you commit adultery, if you divorce for an unbiblical reason and remarry. Therefore, if a Christian finds him or herself unbiblically divorced and remarried, then he or she is in a perpetual state of adultery. One cannot repent, if one doesn't intend to end the sinful behavior one is repenting of, in this case: adultery. So, churches have by and large compromised on this one, except for the Catholic Church....at least we are consistent. Slavery in the bible was not solely based on a particular race, as was the modern Western slave trade of the 17-19th centuries, that is true. Yet, it was just as awful and sinful. One must differentiate between indentured servitude (which applied to Hebrews only) and slavery within the OT, as both were present. Hebrews were allowed to enslave conquered peoples, or purchase non-Hebrew slaves from the surrounding nations. These slaves could be kept for life and passed to your descendants as an inheritance. One could discipline one's own slaves as well. In the NT, slavery is nowhere condemned. However, we now view slavery as sin....full stop. Nowhere, do the apostles or Christ himself, explicitly command the emancipation of slaves. In fact, the NT is clear that slaves should obey their masters, and masters should not mistreat their slaves. However, the very act of slavery is sinful, therefore one's treatment of one's slaves is irrelevant as the act of owning slaves is in itself morally repugnant. As for Paul, he is referencing a common occurrence in the Greco-Roman world, that a slave could eventually earn freedom in some cases. Therefore, a Christian slave should strive for that, if possible. However, Paul never condemns the institution. Are you suggesting that God, therefore, condoned slavery of any kind? I would say, no. Peace.

[@philipbenjamin4720]

@@theologicallyinformed4 While the bible does not outlaw polygamy its model is one man and one woman from beginning (Genesis 2) to end (Revelation 19 and 21 - the church being the only bride of Christ). The bible considers singleness the preferred state for doing the work of the kingdom - and marriage a potential distraction. Following on from that elders in the church are supposed to have no more than one wife (1 Timothy 3:2). Yes the Old Testament patriarchs were polygamous - and yes the bible does not outlaw polygamy. Why not? Because God is smart - while his teaching leads to better ways of living he doesn’t require people to abandon those to whom they have made commitments. I cannot recall in forty years of being a Christian anyone who has stated that polygamy is prohibited in the bible. It doesn’t come up much. So I have never met a Christians who has ‘transitioned’ the bible’s teaching on polygamy. We seem to be in agreement about divorce and remarriage. You mention abandonment - there are - as I sought to explain - a range of behaviours which fall under that (physical, emotional, and sexual abuse are other forms of abandonment). There is a third ground for marriages ending (presumably in divorce) - in 1 Corinthians 7:15 - where when the non-believer does not wish to live with the believer the believer is to let them go. I agree that the bible considers someone guilty of adultery if they remarry in inappropriate circumstances - again I don’t know anyone TEACHING otherwise - only people being apathetic in applying scripture. Apathy isn’t a formal transition of the church’s teaching on these issues. So none of the examples you give are reasons for the church to transition its teaching on homosexuality. And even if they were examples it wouldn’t be an argument to say that because the church has done something it shouldn’t in the past that it should do so now with homosexuality. I am not an expert on slavery - but there are articles I have read (which I am not currently able to locate :( - which explain that the bible's teaching on slavery is not something to be ashamed of. I will leave it to others to point to them.

[@theologicallyinformed4]

@@philipbenjamin4720 Excellent response, and yes we are in agreement concerning divorce and remarriage. As for polygamy, it doesn't come up often, quite true lol. As for your point about God not forcing people to abandon spouses, I agree. I especially agree that to abandon women involved in polygamous relationships of the ancient world would have been disastrous for those women socially. I wrote a paper in college on this very subject, exploring how missionaries would need to be sensitive to cultural polygamy in unreached people groups converting to Christianity. I argued that those missionaries would need to make concessions for those converts currently in polygamous relationships, while teaching that future generations would follow the pattern of two persons in one lifelong union. Slavery in the Bible is tricky, but it certainly doesn't condemn the institution in either testament. It often endorses slavery. However, I'm sure we would agree that slavery of any kind is sinful. Would you agree that the Church's thinking about slavery evolved? Church history shows this long arc of moral progress regarding women and slavery. This progress, in my view, is due to the Holy Spirit leading the Church "into all truth." I'm simply raising the question: is it possible the Holy Spirit is leading the Church in the area of human sexuality as well? Perhaps not. I'm committed to following God's leading in this area, and I trust that the Church on the whole will be protected from error. As we see in Acts 15, the first council of the Church, the fathers of the Church will make a decision that "seems good to the Holy Spirit and to [them]." Peace.

[@philipbenjamin4720]

@@theologicallyinformed4 Thanks for your reply. I am of the view that if Christian is itself a marriage - the eternal marriage of God human man Jesus and God human woman church (Rev 19 and 21) - there is no way in which a deeper examination of the bible will find a place for homosexuality. However it already offers a place to every same sex attracted person - since every person is welcome to be part of the eternal marriage I just described. In that sense same sex attracted people have been able - by the teaching of Christianity - to get married - and to have a family - and for thousands of years!

[@samt7785]

If one is in Christ, he or she is a new creation. If some one was a thief, he wouldn't steal after he become a new creation.The same saying goes for the adulterous, whether he did it with the same sex or different sex. But how? By the grace and power of God who made you a new creation. It may take some time , but a born again Christian has a potential to lead a Holy life. The life he has is Christ's, so let Christ live his/her life. So a gay can be a Christian and he/she could be free of the offspring of Adam's Sin, which remained in his/her mind and feelings, by continual renewal of the hi/her mind with the true word of God, prayer, fellowship through the power of the Holy Spirit ,who raised Jesus Christ from dead. If Christ is indeed risen, So our lifestyle can be straightened according to God's will by the same Spirit who raised Christ Jesus from dead.

[@justinshadrach829]

So scientists say Homosexuality is not a choice. Question: Im sure 99% of men would say they do not choose to be attracted to women other than their wives! And im sure many women cant help but be attracted to other men and further more there are plenty of emotional 'I love my brother or sister and we would like to marry''........so why is the church not catering for that. Polygamous or incestuous tendencies are natural, no and observed within nature also. Or has sin in humanity and nature meant that we do not just run with our desires and something is inheriantly warped!? Therfore restrictions are put in place to protect humanity from those things they are drawn to, think are good and pleasing, though are actually detremental to them.?

[@pietpiet6006]

Pure lies spread by this bisschop and not based on verses of the bible. He is just twisting it

[@sbaker8971]

Notice something very important here, he never used ANY Scripture to support his claim. That says everything

[@safiyahamisu5874]

But why debate. What did the Bible say about all of this. Man is always justifying their sins. Sad.

[@hanix2002]

The way Rev. Calvin Robinson ate him up💀

[@History_MadeMe_Catholic]

Recognize charlatans.. just bringing confusion to the very sound and timely, Rev. Calvin Robinson. . . . 🤦🏽‍♂️ Homosexuality is against LIFE, against science, against humanity and ultimately.. A-Theos: Against God.

[@dylangous]

Any church that marries the current age will be a widow in the next.

[@srg7]

This man twisted and misinterpreted the scripture to suit his fascinations. On the day of judgement it will be easier for Soddom and Gomorrah than for this man to face the wrath of God.

[@waynegoodfellow9852]

So he wants to rewrite the word of God. And what else would he like to change in the Bible?

[@paulbaran4796]

One of Gods’ attributes is His omniscience….Omni-science. God is above science. He’s leading folks on the board path that leads to destruction.

[@lyndalmislov2378]

Anyone who changes the Word of God makes for himself an idol in the image of himself, i.e. making a god you feel comfortable with, who will ok your sin. The bible calls this idolatry, the second commandment . . . very very dangerous place to be.

[@lianagordan6559]

The comparison between advances in evolutionary theory and the promotion of “gay rights” within the church (which would entail the redefinition of marriage) is completely irrelevant to the debate. The debate surrounding evolution was one that involved descriptive claims about the nature of the physical world and the origin of species. Given the nature of the theory in question, it makes sense to appeal to “scientific advancements” as relevant to the conversation. Of course empirical evidence can illuminate conversations that have to do with descriptive claims. That is precisely the job of science. Of course, this is ignoring the fact that the scientific evidence is disputed within the scientific community itself, so one doesn’t seem to be able to appeal to the mere existence of empirical evidence alone and leave it at that. There’s still an argument that needs to be made there. The question of the moral permissibility of same-sex relationships, however, is not a question for science to answer. By its very nature, it is a question concerning ethics, not what IS the case but the what OUGHT to be the case. To answer that, we may look to the witness of Holy Scripture and the natural light of reason, both of which attest to the pre-requisite of a monogamous, heterosexual relationship for marriage.

[@snoopy104]

The problem with using Galatians 3:28 ("There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.") to affirm gay marriage is that it's not a consistent interpretation of the passage. If you say this passage means that there's no real difference between male and female, you also have to say that slavery is a misunderstood mirage: there's no real difference between free people and enslaved people. We know the latter is not true. This passage is not talking about the societal distinctions of the listed groups, it's talking about their value in the eyes of God (in which we are ALL on the same rung of the ladder).

[@eurovisionwtf]

They do not cruxify apostates any longer.. maybe that is why everyone is so open to change the rules with their own feeble minds. Yes.. we are feeble, small and weak compared to the one who gave us the words of salvation. If you explain the words to mean something else, there will no longer be salvation! 😠

[@edwardbaker1331]

How atheistic it is to contrive a God in one's own image.

[@Nai61a]

edwardbaker etc: That has nothing to do with atheism. It is what every single "God" believer does. "God" is a man-made invention and every man invents "God" in his own image.

[@edwardbaker1331]

@@Nai61a How childishly desperate of you to convince yourself your hatred is rational. So given your materialist interpretation of existence, your family is in for a hard time knowing that you disbelieve that a biological machine is incapable of genuine motivated self-sacrifice and altruism independent of biochemical processes that would negate the meaning of self-sacrifice.

[@Heyhojoshyoji]

The Word of God is evident in its view of homosexuality. The most commonly quoted Bible verses are Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, which state that it is an abomination for a man to lie with another man as he would with a woman. In Romans 1:26-27, Apostle Paul says that homosexuality is contrary to God's natural order and results from rejecting God.

[@kevingentry4659]

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. Timothy 4 3-4

[@cockney501]

Oh my word, is this guy reading the bible? There is no definition of what marriage really is? Am I hearing this? 1 tim 3.2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, Bishop must be blameless would be helpful to heed here. God is inclusive, to include all who will repent of sin. Please, anyone who is deceived by this, please read your bible. Romans 1.25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their [i]women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27Likewise also the [j]men, leaving the natural use of the [k]woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason, (this very reason!) God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due Not to mention Romans 12:1-2. Be not conformed to the pattern of this world. Yes we are proudly to be non conformist

[@ApostolicEchoes]

Remember Paul wept and said “grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock.” This is what he meant.

[@fazzatubez3644]

Are you referring to Saul of Tarsus?

[@bamboosho0t]

(Christ Jesus) _"On seeing the crowds, he felt pity for them, because they were skinned and thrown about like sheep without a shepherd"_ - Matthew 9:36 Chridt felt pity for the people, wandering aimlessly because their leaders, the Pharisees and Scribes, cared only about furthering their agendas and customs. The Church, today, are the modern-day Scribes and Pharisees. For they care only about their own interests.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

The Wrong "Reverend" John Inge. 🤡

[@cristiani.lepindea8676]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnachXeOlMmkhdE

[@warrenpaine]

From the Holy Scriptures 1 Corinthians 14: 33-35: "For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church."

[@aarongw771]

My children, 10 and 7, are capable of looking at scripture more reasonably and historically than the bishop of London. Amazing.

[@awodidaniel1417]

He is not a bishop his fake

[@satsuma77009]

Aaron Wright: Where did your children learn how to hate so much? From you. You can sex all this up anywhere you want and use any high hatted justification you like. However, you are a hateful wretched person. I feel sorry for your children and grandchildren.

[@iloveamerica007]

Your children lack education as do you

[@_papama_]

🤣

[@HelwigDorsuo]

Anglicans have as much religious authority as a guy who orders a certificate from an online ministry.

[@BlackSailPass_GuitarCovers]

"Society is now ahead of the church [morally]." I laughed out loud.

[@davidmorrison2739]

It must be a race to the bottom!

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

​@@davidmorrison2739 The Wrong "Reverend" John Inge. 🤡

[@d_ftkid]

Why even profess to be a Christian at this point lol. Just for the ticket to heaven?

[@davidmorrison2739]

@@ReverendDr.Thomas Pardon?

[@iniester6724]

Classical Christianity is well and truly finished in the West

[@legendman97]

H E R E T I C

[@TheChristianNationalist8692]

YEP

[@tonymercer7759]

And Apostate along with Welby and his bishop cronies

[@cinnamondan4984]

His heart is in the right place though

[@Joe-uw5rv]

@@cinnamondan4984 What does that even mean?

[@cinnamondan4984]

@@Joe-uw5rv It means he may be wrong but his conviction is real.

[@slavicgypsy5535]

Perfect example of why Anglicanism is dying.

[@Kvasiir]

Christianity is dying because an educated person do not need fairy tales to guide their lives anymore

[@FatJoe98100]

Hey Pope Benedict XVI set up an ordinariate for the anglicans for a reason

[@danarose6314]

@@FatJoe98100 I'm a church going Catholic (didn't say a good one!) and really Christianity generally is waning in all of the West; Anglicanism and otherwise.

[@AL_YZ]

​@@FatJoe98100 The Catholic Church is just lagging behind...a little bit. It is in a headlong rush to catch up with the Anglican Church. A synodal Church will no doubt look like the Anglican Church. The German Synodal Way which likewise adopts all the same "progressive" doctrines is the first fruits.

[@thunderthumbz3293]

​@@AL_YZ Not if Pope Francis excommunicates the German bishops.

[@John-3-16--]

Oh dear, forgive me Lord for being judgemental but have mercy on his soul.😢

[@louisadu-amoah1504]

The Lord needs not have mercy on you because you are actually doing His work. Commendations rather shall be his remarks for rebuking sin and calling out falsehood for what it is.

[@kingdavid4115]

You need to know you are not against sin...i am from Nigeria and we are so disappointed with the Church of England. He is a Heretic...i assure you if this man comes to Nigeria we won't allow him enter the chancel

[@rickytavilla4259]

@@louisadu-amoah1504well said

[@janehartman6871]

We are to judge sin in the church.

[@samtaylor1060]

​@@louisadu-amoah1504 2 Timothy approved of that. Yhyh

[@hiitstam]

@7:10 Jesus made no mention of homosexuality because he was speaking primarily to Jews who knew the Torah, and that homosexuality was condemned. Paul, however, was speaking to a Gentile audience and so needed to spell it out clearly. I first learnt this from Becket Cook. Amazing testimony he has 🙂

[@joellaz9836]

They conveniently won’t mention the fact that Jesus also didn’t say anything about incest or bestiality either

[@HarryFlashmanVC]

Indeed, Paul was speaking to Romans and especially the Greeks

[@scented-leafpelargonium3366]

​@@HarryFlashmanVC That's why he told them not to reject the Law (of God), but to uphold it.

[@scented-leafpelargonium3366]

Tammy : Yeshua did refer to end days being as in the days of Lot who lived in Sodom before it was destroyed, even though I believe Sodom was destroyed for many sins, not just homosexuality alone.

[@hugoanson2135]

Fornication includes homosexuality, whether hetero or homo..So also does the sermon on the mount, & the proverbs, therefore Mark.9v45..

[@logicae4096]

One thing I have learned… Rev. Calvin Robinson is a very powerful and compelling orator.

[@rajeshshetty4862]

And he is true because bible is true

[@marksutton5540]

Compelling? I'm sorry Mousseline was compelling.

[@busterdafydd3096]

​@@marksutton5540 i agree. To be a public speaker, you all want to learn to be compelling. The next question is what do YOU think about what they said. When you take away how they said it, and more so what they said. What does it mean to you?

[@Charlestve]

Because The True Rev. Calvin Robinson is an Apostle of Christ! His speech is guided by the Power of the Holy Spirit. God will elevate this young man for speaking the Word.

[@speeddoctor]

And yet he says nothing

[@werringertonney7489]

How is this in any way Christian? Seriously. The Scriptures are pretty clear.

[@elainetrewartha3923]

There are those “Christians”, including clergy, who do not base what they believe on Scripture.

[@benclarke299]

The scriptures have been retranslated through 4 or 5 different languages across 2000 years since they were originally written. Whether you like it or not, there’s room for interpretation.

[@doctor1alex]

It’s not true that the Scriptures have been retranslated 4 or 5 times over 2000 years. Scholars are constantly going back to more and more manuscripts from the original languages and retranslating. There’s no room for interpretation on plain dogmatic statements, such as “in the beginning God created..”

[@redsox1935]

Were you saying the same thing when you attended your unmarried friends baby shower? Were you saying the same thing when you were in bed laying with that hot sexy thing you managed to get in your bed? Were you saying the same thing when you were wearing mixed fabrics? Were you saying that when you were at the buffet overeating?

[@redsox1935]

The Scriptures are pretty clear on gluttony as well yet every “Thanksgiving” I know you’re stuffing your face. So what about the Scriptures then?

[@aseeker2109]

Galatians 5:24-25 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there. Since we are living by the Spirit, let us follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives.

[@rickytavilla4259]

Amen

[@someGuy213]

"Now it is true, that when same-sex activity is mentioned in the Bible, such activity, is unequivocally condemned." Crucially, the Bible never explains why?" FULL STOP! As if God must explain himself to us, so that we might obey him? We might be looking at the same book here, but the attitude of our hearts could not be more opposed.

[@brushylake4606]

I haven't studied this, but I wonder if it explains why rape and murder are bad?

[@chrispark7010]

The church has been driven to apostacy, may God have mercy on his soul for false teachers shall face harsher judgement.

[@Chris_Sheridan]

@chrispark .. FYI - God does not show mercy to wilful apostates - this Rt. Rev. Dr (whatever) is already grieving the holy spirit by his misrepresentation of scripture - a serious offence in God's eyes. - Mark 3:29 Those that pray for mercy on behalf of apostates are sharers in their sin.

[@MarkEliasGrant]

It's important to consider the historical and cultural context of the verse you're quoting from Leviticus. In the ancient world, particularly in patriarchal societies, male-on-male sexual acts were often associated with dominance, power, and humiliation-things that would happen in warfare or tribal conquests. This wasn’t about consensual relationships, but rather acts of control and violence. The laws in Leviticus were likely addressing those harmful practices, not loving, consensual relationships like we see today. As Christians, we believe that Jesus brought a new covenant centered on love, compassion, and grace. Jesus himself never spoke about homosexuality, but he did emphasize that the greatest commandments are to love God and to love your neighbor (Matthew 22:37-40). Jesus reached out to marginalized people and showed love where others offered judgment, and as his followers, we are called to do the same. The heart of Christianity is love, and our focus should be on how we treat others. Are we showing love and compassion, or are we using ancient texts to judge and exclude? Everyone is made in God's image and deserves dignity and respect. Christianity is about walking in humility and loving others as Christ loved us, without conditions or exceptions.

[@philipbenjamin4720]

His statements are misleading in what they fail to reveal. Here's a couple of examples. He said that there was consensus in the church that sexual orientation is not a choice. However in saying that he didn't give insight into how the church views same sex attraction. The Christian view is that it isn't sin but that it is an example of disorder. Another example of disorder - someone who has a quick temper isn't a sinner until they lose their temper but between now and then they live in a state of disorder - they are not as able as they would ideally be to remain patient. Christians believe that God wants to bring healing to disorder. He said that the church believes that it isn't a good idea to attempt to change people's sexual orientation. Again this is true but it misses the point - that God is still the surgeon when his servants are not. God brings healing - he knows how to rummage around inside the patient without making the slightest misstep.

[@joe7626]

Jesus never told us to condemn same sex love. I follow JESUS. Not man. RECENT DISCOVERY OF THE MISTRANSLATION OF HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE BIBLE The discovery in the early 1950s of the Dead Sea Scrolls has led to reevaluation of text in the Bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls are the actual 950 manuscripts of the original text of the Bible. To date, this is the closest proof we have of the original text. Most of what we relied on before was copies of copies of copies and interpretations sent down through the centuries. “The NRSV Updated Edition sets out to be the most literal translation of the Bible available to date with its clear use of unambiguous and unbiased language. The new version gives English Bible readers access to the most meticulously researched, rigorously reviewed, and faithfully accurate translation on the market done by dozens of Biblical Scholars. It is also the most ecumenical Bible with acceptance by Christian churches of Protestant, Anglican, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, African American, and Evangelical traditions.” To prevent any claim of bias, each book in the Bible was assigned a different group of biblical scholars. If the entire group agreed that there needed to be corrections, it was sent to the editorial board where it could be either rejected, excepted, or modified. Therefore, being put through a very strenuous process.

[@Dante-vf4sd]

God says it is and it is, He miraculously removed my same sex attraction from me.

[@joe7626]

It’s so sad. 😞 People are so desperate for acceptance and love they are willing to live a lie, saying they have been changed so people will love them. But the fact remains no one, none of us, can change our sexuality. This is the way God made them. Of the more than 90% of people that have tried, having prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed….never changed. Of the 10% that say that they have changed, they admit years, even decades, later that it was a lie.🥲 And not only their lives are destroyed because of the lies, but the spouses/children as well.

[@Dante-vf4sd]

Here I am years later, still no attraction to the same sex😊🙏. God is great, Jesus healed my heart of hate, resentment and absolute fury for those who abused me which turned me into a monster who lost everything as well, in fact God replaced them with His love, a love that surpasses all understanding, it's described briefly in 1 Corinthians 13, I managed to have about 5 good years with my Dad before he passed. 1. Saving my soul, 2. Removal of same sex attraction, 3. Removal of life destroying hate resentment and absolute fury and replaced with perfect love 4. Drawn through thanksgiving to help others who suffer in life, particularly the way I did. 5.Thankful for all the problems I had so God could use them for His glory

[@Eddie33154]

​@@Dante-vf4sd Glory to God. Glory to God. Glory to God. Be filled with the Holy Spirit my friend. Acts 2:38-39. Luke 11:13.

[@TubaDaddy8]

He says the Bible provides examples of many different types of marriage. True, but none of them involve more than one man, or women marrying each other.

[@tommarshall7247]

And many are mentioned without being recommended.

[@SSEOG]

We have to remember the Bible in places is descriptive, not prescriptive.

[@orellano894]

@@SSEOG Isn't that his argument?

[@scented-leafpelargonium3366]

Benny Gundlach : Funny how men can have many partners, but women can't. Great equality! 🙃

[@theholyinquisition389]

He makes some very good arguments against Anglicanism, I'll give him that.

[@desydukuk291]

Last week the other useful idiots argued that God was a woman. Father forgive them for they know not what they do.

[@joe7626]

Unless you physically have seen God you have no idea 😂

[@qwertu7]

I think they know pretty well what they do

[@scented-leafpelargonium3366]

Desyduk UK : And He DOES forgive!

[@peterwallis4288]

​@@joe7626we have a very good idea from the Bible how God describes himself. Who on earth are we to question that?

[@joe7626]

@@peterwallis4288 The Bible was written by men. I’m not gonna persecute people that doesn’t make any sense because some man wrote it in a book. I don’t follow others that easily.

[@Zayithyah]

Proof we are at the end times.. wicked generation. Watch and be sober brothers and sisters!

[@rickytavilla4259]

Amen. Wrong is now considered right. Keep your eyes open to digital currency. Once they have that in place, they will be able to set it up that you won’t be able to “buy or sell.”

[@cristiani.lepindea8676]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnachXeOlMmkhdE

[@slatanek]

The West is done. Christianity falling is Western culture as a whole falling. In other words: we're fucked

[@berememberedfortheloveyoug244]

Who has planted these tares amongst the wheat ? The devil has planted them.

[@UnashamedlyGodSquad]

I'm CoE, from age 5. None of these clerics represent me. What do I have in common with them? Do I relate to them? Wittering/ doddering relics from posh backgrounds. Intellectuals. Educated at Oxbridge or Durham, or whatever. Are they going to start a Christian revival in Britain? I don't think so. Also, the silly costumes

[@joseh3564]

Who needs a "church" that follows man's laws, but NOT God's laws?

[@cristiani.lepindea8676]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnachXeOlMmkhdE

[@scented-leafpelargonium3366]

Jose H : The Church ALSO does not keep GOD'S LAWS. Just look at the 4th Commandment concerning remembering the Sabbath on the 7th day and keeping it holy, and the warning in Leviticus, (the SAME book Christians cite to condemn homosexuality), chapter 11 verses 10-12 where God calls the eating of sewage-imbibing shellfish an ABOMNATION 4 times in 2 verses. Christians IGNORE & BREAK these just as much as any homosexual does with his 'verses.' What's good for the goose is good for gander. You can't preach it then break it yourself!! 🙃

[@hanselchua7969]

@@scented-leafpelargonium3366 please distinguish between moral and ceremonial law, mosaic law and law under Christ. while keeping the sabbath is interpreted to be moral law by some due to its inclusion in the 10 commandments. However, note to look at Romans 14:5 and Colossians 2:16-17 in some denominations, Christ is thought of to be our sabbath rest. Restrictions like the one you mentioned about eating shellfish doesnt apply to christians as the church does not equate to the nation of Israel, same is the case for circumcision and sacrifice in galatians 3:23-25

[@scented-leafpelargonium3366]

@@hanselchua7969 Why don't YOU distinguish between moral and ceremonial law, mosaic law under Christ?! The word you read rendered into English as "law" has 5 Hebrew different words. They are not the same, plus the choice of the word "law" gives a very legalistic tone to it, whereas in the original language of the text it has the intrinsic meaning of "TEACHING," which means that Gentile denominational Christians claim not to be under God's TEACHING ("LAW"), as even the New Testament describes it as a SCHOOLMASTER, and schoolmasters are generally thought to be good in a moral society, not something that society would agree to do away with (plus Yeshua declared that He did not come to cancel out the "law" ("TEACHING") but to "fulfil," which means to keep the obligations of it to the nth degree, so fulfilling does not mean cancelling out. The word TORAH which is the most common word rendered as "law" in English, is related to the word MOREH/MORAH (M/F) which means TEACHER, and TORAH simply means TEACHING. This is seen in the naming of Mount Moriah as HAR MORI-YAH, or the Mountain of the LORD's Teaching, which was where the Temple was built, and where God TAUGHT Abraham a lesson concerning sacrificing his son Yitzhak ("Isaac") and where ultimately Yeshua taught in the Temple precincts, as the TEACHING of Yeshua is the SAME WORD as the word used for the OT "LAW" which is "TORAH," and which often gets translated as "doctrine" in some Bible versions. So if we reject the TORAH ("LAW"/"TEACHING") of God in the Old Testament just because it is termed "law" in English, then we must reject Yeshua's TEACHING/TORAH as it is the same word! There are NO SUCH TERMS in the Bible as MORAL LAW & CEREMONIAL LAW, as these are extra-Biblical man-made terms and get brought into conversations in an attempt to remove God's Law, but they are not in the Bible, and where they do occur, with some versions putting "ceremonial" concerning laws and clean and unclean animals etc, which is ADDED by men onto the Bible text in order to support their own doctrine, a thing that God warns people not to do. The Bible says that sin is a transgression of the Law. How do we define sin without God's Law? No wonder people come up with wrong conclusions on these things. One other word for "law" is "HOK" or "HUKKIM" in plural, which are rules and ordinances pertaining to the Temple and to BLOOD SACRIFICES, which the New Testament says have been nailed to the Tree, but that does not mean the Ten Commamdments of the Law of God or TORAH/TEACHING, only "HUKKIM." Yeshua said, "If you love Me, keep My Commamdments," and Yeshua rested on the Sabbath. The distinction between clean & unclean animals permitted to eat were cited by the Gentile Noah, long before there were any Jews or Israelites, and long before the "law" at Mount Sinai. The Bible says that Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Surely as a Gentile He should have refused to listen to God about those distinctions and tell Him that they are only for Israelites! Rather he boarded the UNCLEAN animals in TWOS purely for breeding purposes and the CLEAN animals in PAIRS OF SEVEN (14 animals) as they were needed in larger numbers for FOOD. If Noah had have been a denominational "Christian" he would have eaten the UNCLEAN animals and they would have been extinct now, but He was OBEDIENT, unlike LAW-LESS Christians today. If the unclean animals were "ceremonially" unclean, then this was God's great opportunity to wipe these "unclean" animals out, but they were called GOOD by God at creation, so they were not detestable in and of themselves, but because they were created with the express purpose of cleaning the planet as scavengers of any detritus, rotting carcases and even waste faeces (as pigs are known to do). Instead God kept them but instructed not to eat their flesh or even to touch their carcasses in some cases, due to high level of toxins in their flesh. Why you think this is not a law for mankind from the Noachide laws that pertain to Gentiles, and which Christians can ignore putting their own health and the health of others at risk, when even my college tutors when I was training to be a Hilton Chef taught me that PORK & SHELLFISH were "HIGH RISK" foods, whereas the Bible does not even describe them as "food." Also the doctors after my kidney transplant told me not to eat PORK or SHELLFISH due to the dangers it could pose for me, but denominational Christians say you can eat anything at all! The Law is called "Mosaic" because Moshe ("Moses") was the channel through which God delivered the written law ("TORAH"/"TEACHING"), but he was not the author of it. God was the Author, so more correctly it is GOD'S LAW or TORAH/TEACHING, and the "law under Christ" that you describe is simply the TEACHING /TORAH ("LAW") of the Messiah, and both are in vogue. It is only Gentile denominational Christians who disobey the New Testament by JUDGING OTHERS, when the Bible clearly warns NOT to judge anyone in food or drink (such as with eating clean animals according to the Scriptures), or in regard to a religious festival or "MOED," which is an "Appointed Time" set in place by God, such as Passover etc upon which day Yeshua was crucified, or concerning a NEW MOON, or Biblical 30-day lunar months in God's calendar, which are mentioned in the new heavens and new earth in Isaiah 66, and of course the SABBATH, which in the original text is singular, not "sabbaths," as there is only one Sabbath, apart from ANNUAL SABBATHS, such as the MOADIM or "Appointed Times," yet Gentile Christians still take me and others to task concerning these very things that the Bible tells us not to judge about! Yeshua had to be taken off the cross before the Passover ANNUAL SABBATH, which can fall on any day of the week, but most ASSUME that the text means the regular weekly Sabbath on what the Gentiles now call "Saturday" in honour of the god Saturn, but it was an ANNUAL SABBATH, as there were TWO SABBATHS or "rest days" the week of the crucifixion. This oversight has caused many Gentile readers including theologians to conclude a Friday-to-'Sun'-day equation, when the Scriptures tell us that this Sabbath was a "HIGH DAY," not an ordinary weekly Sabbath at all, as the Bible NOWHERE mentions "Friday," or the Sixth Day, but only the PREPARATION DAY, which was the day preceding the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread, and that Sabbath on Nisan 15th can fall on any given day each year. It is this ASSUMPTION that has created the error that is "Sun"-day observance, when in fact Yeshua rose BEFORE the first visitors arrived at the EMPTY tomb very early on "Sun"-day. He was put in the tomb just before sunset, as all Biblical days begin and end at sunset, so according to His own prophetic words He would rise 3 days & 3 nights later (72 hours) JUST BEFORE SUNSET. The only point before the first visitors came (as no one saw Him rise on "Sun"-day morning) to fit that time frame would be JUST BEFORE SUNSET at the end of the weekly Sabbath JUST BEFORE the onset of the first day of the (working) week. This in no way contradicts anything and our salvation remains gloriously the same, but the Biblical timings are more fully brought out. Thus Yeshua is truly Lord of the SABBATH, but not of "Sun"-day at all, but few want to know. Count back 72 hours from this point and we arrive at WEDNESDAY for the Crucifixion Day instead of Friday, as is assumed, and the Resurrection Day on the SABBATH, not on "Sun"-day. This is a very serious error if the Church is teaching "Sun"-day as a verifiable fact, and the 36 hours from Fri to Sun instead of 72 with one full NIGHT MISSING makes Yeshua out to be a liar and a fraud. Do we trust the prophetic words of Yeshua, or ecclesiastical tradition and hearsay of others? Once the penny drops you will never view "Sun"-day in the same light again. SHABBAT SHALOM.

[@mr.coolmug3181]

If the Church of England were disestablished, would this topic even be up for debate? I don't think so. This debate is not about the Truth. This is about a declining Church choosing to lurch a little closer to what is politically expedient, perhaps to maintain its established position.

[@kwesikwansakennedy2196]

Couldn't agree better

[@dribblesg2]

It wasn’t debated in Australia. It was amazing to witness actually. The entire nation ‘discussed’ the issue non-stop for over a year, but didn’t debate the issue seriously once.

[@mr.coolmug3181]

@@dribblesg2 it's not meant to be debated seriously. The media cover these issues like a debate, to keep up the appearance of free and open civil society, but there's always a bias in favour of the "progressive" position, which is also the position the political establishment supports by default.

[@scented-leafpelargonium3366]

Mr.CoolMug : It is disestablished in Ireland. That move caused one of the longest words in the English languages to be created, namely: ANTIDISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM! Maybe some antidisestablishmentarians would disagree with you. 🙃

[@petermalaki5498]

I grew up in the Anglican Church in Kenya. What I can now say is that the teachings of our Mother Church in the UK has become more worldly than our drunkards in Kenyan bars who know and honour GOD's Word better than these so called Bishops. It's a shame that those who are ordained to win souls and raise disciples are now serving Satan's kingdom!

[@applerose5811]

As Christians,we should not embrace sin,or encourage people to continue in their sins.Their is a way that seems right unto man, but after this the Judgement. All those leaders who are encouraging people to continue sinning,is accountable,and will have to answer God.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

The Wrong "Reverend" John Inge. 🤡

[@paulwilliams1050]

So God created these humans as homosexual just so he could punish them for thier sins? What a kind and just creature he is.

[@Ascension455]

​​@@paulwilliams1050 God created us He didn't make us homosexual It's us who CHOSE to be God specifically said it's an Abomination He created Man and Woman (Adam and Eve) not Adam and Steve He sent his Son Jesus to die for our sins That whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life

[@paulwilliams1050]

@@Ascension455 Try reading another book you bigoted fool.

[@tlaw192]

​​​​​​​​​​​@@paulwilliams1050 God allowed sin to enter the world, allowing men to have free will to choose good or bad... free will at its best here. There's satan if you want to follow satan too. God is clear however, on what the consequences are if we choose to do something that He has stated as wrong, whether we like it or not. For example 'committing adultery'...there are consequences to it. If there are no consequences, then how can justice exist. Humans in their nature from the beginning can be potentially lustful, gay, angry, greedy, hateful...you even have to teach a toddler to share and be nice to others. You can be born with certain desires, but doesn't mean you can blame God for everything you choose to do/be later in life...that's someone not taking responsibilities for their own actions. It's like saying "Oh I have anger problems in my genes, therefore it's God's fault for allowing such a nature in me, therefore I can go on being angry at my children and everyone." Religion doesn't work this way. Being gay in nature is fine, it is when you choose/take action to have sexual relationships with another same-sex person that it is a sin (homosexuality). For Christians, God is the judge and God is the one setting the rules. If you don't like that idea, you want to be your own god and religion is not for you. Our lives are not meant to be perfect...life on earth is just an extremely short snippit of a much bigger picture. You are born with nothing, you die and take nothing with you. There is the perfect place of 'new heaven new earth/new jerusalem', where there is no suffering but pure goodness only. This is what Christians should be preparing for. A Christian should know that life is not about being successful in your career and getting married only... it's something else much much bigger than this.

[@paulfoster451]

10:10 'society is ahead of the church' says the bishop. All you need to hear, really

[@JupiterThunder]

He wishes to follow the world. Why is he even in the church? Simply to destroy it. It's very sad that Worcester Cathedral has long been the church of satan.

[@iainrae6159]

Kind of curious that a high proportion of vicars, priests and Bishops are gay. Just a thought.

[@doctor1alex]

Is that true though?

[@payaj2815]

I don’t know exactly how true that is. But nevertheless we already know there’s been plenty of them throughout history that have been called come out or have been caught that are. Also a fair amount that are pedophiles.

[@iainrae6159]

@@doctor1alex A recent book ,' In The Closet of The Vatican ' research over a number of years interviewing priests calculated around 80% were gay

[@scented-leafpelargonium3366]

Iain Rae : Even married ones. 🙃

[@frsimonc.maddisonssc.7858]

The simple fact that sexual orientation is not a choice doesn't mean that we should affirm it, otherwise we would be affirming any sexual orientation, such a pedophilia or bestiality...

[@jennyyates8798]

Exactly. Pedophiles will just say, "It's not my choice; it's the way I'm made, so I must be allowed to act on my feelings."

[@CassidaViridis]

@@jennyyates8798 Isn't that what the Pope is trying to say about paedophiles?

[@CassidaViridis]

It's not my choice that I suffer from anger, but it's still a sin I need to repent from.

[@spdomingoo]

These are not sexual orientations they are sexual proclivities

[@spdomingoo]

He really botched Paul’s work

[@patricialuciarodriguez6117]

Perfect speech as to why Anglicanism is condem to death😢

[@nathanburtenshaw6489]

I didn't hear any solid argument there hahaha 😅

[@hyacinthlynch843]

"Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." -- Leviticus 18 :22

[@MarkEliasGrant]

Yeah, funny thing when you get an education you look critically at scriptures to decipher, with knowledge, what is of God and what is cultural baggage. You probably eat shellfish, or even have divorced friends, but you draw the line at gay people. You're a pharisee Jesus would never have hung out with, he liked the tax collectors and prostitutes, not the uptight church ladies.

[@MarkEliasGrant]

It's important to consider the historical and cultural context of the verse you're quoting from Leviticus. In the ancient world, particularly in patriarchal societies, male-on-male sexual acts were often associated with dominance, power, and humiliation-things that would happen in warfare or tribal conquests. This wasn’t about consensual relationships, but rather acts of control and violence. The laws in Leviticus were likely addressing those harmful practices, not loving, consensual relationships like we see today. As Christians, we believe that Jesus brought a new covenant centered on love, compassion, and grace. Jesus himself never spoke about homosexuality, but he did emphasize that the greatest commandments are to love God and to love your neighbor (Matthew 22:37-40). Jesus reached out to marginalized people and showed love where others offered judgment, and as his followers, we are called to do the same. The heart of Christianity is love, and our focus should be on how we treat others. Are we showing love and compassion, or are we using ancient texts to judge and exclude? Everyone is made in God's image and deserves dignity and respect. Christianity is about walking in humility and loving others as Christ loved us, without conditions or exceptions.

[@elizabethdavis2779]

His use of scripture is misleading and makes me highly question his understanding of it.

[@joycarroll568]

Paul speaks of and warns about unsound doctrine in 2 Timothy Ch 4 V 3- 4 which says For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine, instead to suit their own desires , they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

[@scented-leafpelargonium3366]

Joy Caroll : That's why we have "Sun"-day observance instead of the commanded Sabbath of the LORD and the Roman "Easter" in place of the ordained Passover of the LORD, all of man, not God.

[@payaj2815]

It is imperative that each and every single one of us knows for ourselves the truth and carry in our hearts our own testimony of God and Jesus. Because when everything is said and done and we are sitting at the judgment seat with Christ nothing else is going to matter. We do not have the authority as children of God to change the Scriptures that God has placed before us. And I don’t have a shadow of a doubt that those who go against God‘s teachings and try to persuade, manipulate and coerce people into to commit acts of sin will not go without a very grave, heavy and serious punishment. And if anyone is in a church that is teaching them things that go against what God has told us; you’re in the wrong church and I would encourage you to leave. It is not worth losing your soul for the whims of lost and confused souls that are intentionally choosing to go against God. They are not men of God. The only one they’re serving is the devil.

[@bamboosho0t]

_"...having an _*_appearance_*_ of godliness but _*_proving false to its power._*_ And from these _*_turn away."_* - 2 Timothy 3:6

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

repent or be defrocked. unacceptable conduct for a bishop of the church of england