P-47 Pacific Theater, The Brisbane Tank And Why It Matters

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

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[@MrSpirit99]

23 pressurized air line (from supercharger (literally loader) to the drop tank (literally extra tank)) 24 overpressure valve 25 check valve you got it right

[@natekott]

"The thunderbolt is huge but she's a whole 'lotta Rosie." I think we now need a DCS livery featuring a redheaded pinup with the name "Whole 'Lotta Rosie"

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

Well, it's an AC/DC saying from a bit later, but somehow, I think it fits.

[@steffen19k]

​@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobilesbut where did AC/DC get it from?

[@dukecraig2402]

I found a picture of the actual Rosie, the girl who inspired the song, last year digging around on the internet. You could say she has it all.

[@kimmoj2570]

Doing pinup livery to Jug after song released in late 70s. Over 30 years after war. In speaking thats OK. We all talk todays language (crazy idea, when talking specific era of history, everyone must discuss in language of that era 😅 Between 16th to 19th century most discussion must be in French 😅). But to paint that on P-47... just aint right.

[@cabletie69]

​@@steffen19k they wrote it.

[@joelwalmsley7217]

I love how the whole p47 range thing is a thorn in Greg's side and he has the the receipts as to why. Gregs use of primary sources is what makes his videos excellent

[@michaeliverson4060]

Plus, angry Greg is very entertaining to listen to.

[@RogerGibson-pz5wl]

Greg is totally excellent!

[@Deipnosophist_the_Gastronomer]

I'd have more confidence in those red numbers if they actually made red P47s 😉

[@patrickmurphy813]

Why thorn in his side? Having a bee in the bonnet would be be less painful.

[@LukeBunyip]

Never underestimate the capacity for Australian auotmotive engineers to come up with a bodge job better than the original.

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

lol, that's funny.

[@jaym8027]

The last of the V-8 Interceptors, for instance.

[@arffadailey8055]

bailing wire ,bog& garden hose & off we go. Look out Bob Semple.

[@SoloRenegade]

except, it wasn't Australians that did it. It was the American pilots and ground crews themselves that came up with teh mods. Ford in Australia was simply commissioned to build them.

[@brookeshenfield7156]

“Bodge job”…That’s a McGyver to Americans…

[@tipwilkin]

Okay now we're gonna need an hour long video on why you'd build a liquid-cooled radial

[@kiwidiesel]

No no , it will be an hour long video on why NOT to build a wet radial😂

[@johnking6252]

government contracts ! 🤪

[@ChrisSmith-mi2zo]

The Lycoming XR-7755 might be worthy of a video, honestly. Largest piston aviation engine ever built, intended for the B-36, and a liquid-cooled inline radial.

[@RogerGibson-pz5wl]

😆

[@kimmoj2570]

You have to ask Junkers. Dozens of engineers used more than half decade on 222. And got nothing workable.

[@NimaShariatzadeh]

"we have a chart for that" - Greg

[@josephking6515]

That should be on a T-shirt. 👍

[@patricklopes-vtec]

Usually I don't care about charts unless they are a comparison between machines, which gives us a better perspective on how they will behave between each other. Many pilot manuals are a simplification of extensive technical charts developed by factories or milit branch offices. But the map comparison between Indonesia and Germany fronts are the major point of the video. Not many people realize that Indonesia is a very big country, same for Philippines and China and Japan. Despite being islands, they are spread, increasing distances for missions. That's why pilots often wanted Thunderbolts and Lightnings instead of Airacobras, Kittyhawks before Mustangs came in. About the brisbane tank, I guess you could use some vacuum somewhere in the fuel pipings to create some pressure instead of developing another mechanical high-pressure pump.

[@terenceblakely4328]

McArthur had a massive ego. There is no way he'd tolerate sharing the spotlight with a general who was far more famous than him.

[@TheBruceGday]

Thus no way for Doolittle.

[@steveperreira5850]

I don’t know why Greg didn’t just say that because certainly it must have occurred to him, I think he was being polite.

[@melbyrne]

Agree with those points but also sounds like MacArthur picked the right guy for this particular job precisely because Gen Kenney hadn't inhaled the "self defending bomber will always get through" fantasy. Meaning fighters+drop tanks = good thing.

[@wdcjunk]

Came here to make sure this comment was made.

[@jetdriver]

@@melbyrneI don’t see anything in Doolittle”’s history that would make me think he would have taken a different tract with respect to drop tanks. I agree with others that MacArthur would never have considered an officer who might be more famous than him. There is simply no possible way to understate the size of his ego.

[@alibizzle2010]

Based on everything I have learnt about Dugout Doug on the Pacific War Podcast I'm sure he rejected Doolittle as he didn't want anyone to overshadow him

[@rhondohslade]

Most likely. He was quite vain when it came to others challenging his apple cart is my understanding.

[@williamromine5715]

I agree. Doolittle had enough reputation that he could stand up to MacArthur. There's no way MacArthur would put himself in that situation. Luckily, Kenny was able to perform as well as he did. I read that MacArthur kept interfering(sp) with Kenny's plans. One day Kenny put a dot on a piece of paper and told MacArthur that was how much he knew about the use of airplanes, and that Kenny knew the rest of air combat. I don't know if that story is true or not.

[@mpetersen6]

While l agree Mac had a stadium sized ego l do not think you get to high rank without a large ego. The important thing is to not let it control you.

[@alibizzle2010]

@@mpetersen6 You should check out The Legend of Dugout Doug-Episode from the Unauthorized History of the Pacific War podcast. They make it clear not just that he was an awful human being but a lousy strategist who was almost universally despised by his fellow officers and those who served under him. Below is a poem written about him by his own men Dugout Doug MacArthur lies ashaking on the Rock Safe from all the bombers and from any sudden shock Dugout Doug is eating of the best food on Bataan And his troops go starving on. Dugout Doug's not timid, he's just cautious, not afraid He's protecting carefully the stars that Franklin made Four-star generals are rare as good food on Bataan And his troops go starving on. Dugout Doug is ready in his Kris Craft for the flee Over bounding billows and the wildly raging sea For the Japs are pounding on the gates of Old Bataan And his troops go starving on...

[@cvr527]

@@mpetersen6 Far too many including Mac, fail to keep their ginormous egos in check.

[@paulcaine2603]

The effort the US 5th Airforce flying out of Australia seems very much under appreciated. The ground crews worked in the most appalling primitive conditions. Their efforts were super human.

[@bobwilson758]

Excellent comment sir - thank you . The Mechanics .

[@BobSmith-dk8nw]

Yes - and things got much, much worse as they moved to New Guinea ... .

[@paulcaine2603]

Searing heat and dust VS. Humidity, mud and the mosquito. No good choices happening there for these young men.

[@johncarlson3061]

My Grandfather was a waist gunner on B-24 crew (SadSack) 5 AAF 380th BG 531st bomb squadron. He was stationed at Long field (Feton) General Kenny, told their group that they were like a (Circus) and the moniker stuck. (Flying Circus)! Grandfather told me that they wished that they could get fighter escorts,but due to the long range strikes their group flew,it wasn't practical. Could you please do a episode regarding their B-24's? My understanding is that they were brand new J - modles that the group flew all way from Consolidated's San Diageo factory. Grandfather told me that they had 2 bomb bays,but only used 1. This was because the other bay housed a 2200gl extra fuel tank. BTW my grandfather Joesph Wells was on the SadSack, which was on the 1st raid to Bailikpan. Hopefully sir,you will consider a episode regarding their specialized Liberators! Thank you,John C.

[@guitarfan01]

@@johncarlson3061 Hi John, you replied to someone else's comment, which means Greg probably won't see your comment! Make sure to type your comment in directly under the video where it says "add comment" not in a "reply"

[@juliancate7089]

The thing that popped out at me when I listened to your debate over P-47/P-51 range in Europe, was that it had never occurred to anyone to standardize not only the tanks for all the various models, but the mountings, release mechanisms, feeding, pumps, etc... I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if this was possible, but it seems to a layman like me, that it could be feasible. It's not like they hadn't foreseen the need for external fuel stores, as all the US fighters had plumbed hardpoints from the beginning. So it baffles me that no one saw the need to say, "we need to standardize various tank volumes, tank mountings, etc... on all of our fighters so that they can used interchangeably."

[@snowstalker36]

There was standardization when possible. The P-40 and 39 use the same tank for example, and the P-47 was set up to use P-38 tanks in later models. The USAAF just took longer to get there than the other air forces because of the roadblocks put in place against drop tank development and issue in general. There are more variables to making a suitable drop tank than a bomb, Where the internal fuel tanks and lines are much more involved than figuring out a release trigger for a bomb so where they are located will force some constraints on the size and shape of drop tank allowed. Fuel consumption can also drive a need for larger tanks, hitting those limits. I think the P-47 would have had its own special tanks eventually even if there had been some standardization. The P-40/39 tank just doesn't provide enough fuel for the P-47's needs. The P-38 tanks did, but only by using wing stores and belly position is preferred.

[@juliancate7089]

@@snowstalker36 I understand, but I'm speaking of total interchangeability. Yes, there are conformal tanks in today's Air Forces that obviously are type-specific, but all those droppable tanks - which come in different volumes - are universal and can be fitted to any plane in the inventory that has plumbed hardpoints. That's what I meant. It was certainly possible in the 1930s and 40s to achieve, but it seems to have been the result of short-sightedness in design specs from the military.

[@BobSmith-dk8nw]

@@juliancate7089 A lot of what was done was done by the Vendors or units in the field - because The Bomber Mafia had specifically sought to discourage any implication that Bombers would ever have a reason to make use of Fighter Escort. It takes some real effort and some real clout to make something standardized and with the people who were dominant in the Army Air Force opposed to them - we are lucky we had what we had. .

[@juliancate7089]

@@BobSmith-dk8nw Bob, I don't want to seem unkind, but you didn't say anything that wasn't already in the video. Repeating those points isn't an answer and I'm not disputing anything. Also, at the end of your comment, you essentially repeat exactly what I concluded in my earlier comment that the lack of standardization was due to short-sightedness. After doing more research, it seems that the lack of standardization was the norm with very few things being interchangeable between types. Every new type of plane was largely bespoke.

[@OnerousEthic]

Outstanding insight, but I think you didn’t take it far enough! I think that all supply lines were maxed out, and time and resources were inadequate, but imho parts interchangeably between types and manufacturers would be optimal practice from multiple perspectives, including engineering, manufacturing, documentation, supply chain, etc, etc, etc…

[@johnivkovich8655]

I need to stop 5 minutes in. The total shit for brains incompetence of senior staffers in the Army Air Force and subsequent U.S. Air Force blows my mind. I will return to this later. Greg your channel is amazing.

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

I feel your pain.

[@mo07r1]

Sometimes perfect is the enemy of progress

[@danweyant4909]

The tragedy of the aircrew lost for this.

[@jwenting]

and they were bright minds compare to their counterparts in the US Navy...

[@steveperreira5850]

Anyone that is ever been in the military or a big bureaucratic organization knows well that most of the military brass are shit for brains

[@paulflocken2730]

Douglas MacArthur was too much the prima donna to allow someone as famous as Doolittle around and attracting limelight.

[@Zyme86]

Until he got back to the Philippines, Mac cost the allies more lives than he was worth. Seriously he should have been retired in 42

[@higgs923]

My dad joined the USN in 1938. He was a crewman aboard the USS Utah on Dec. 7th. He fought all the way through the island hopping campaign in the Pacific. He despised MacArthur and always referred to him as "Dugout Doug."

[@jeffreypurcell4681]

He got a lot of Australians killed so as he can claim he stopped the japs before the marines at Guadalcanal !

[@Vito_Tuxedo]

Nevertheless, it appears that General Mac Arthur made the right choice for the 5th Air Force. It has become fashionable to deprecate Mac Arthur; yet, those who do so seem blissfully unaware of his positive attributes. They would benefit from some actual knowledge on that subject.

[@jamess7576]

​@@higgs923 And yet my great uncle and grandpa who actually fought under his command had very favorable opinions of the man. Was he vainglorious, yes, but he made some good calls. 1st Marines would have benefitted if Nimitz had listened to him regarding Peleliu. Also his actions in post war Japan are often under appreciated.

[@toddspink5700]

Greg, I am certainly delighted you chose to highlight General George Kenny. The Kenny Reports has been in my library for 45 years. I admire his ability to recognize the talents of his "kids", to think outside the box, and do more with less than any other commander. It would be great to see a video regarding Kenny, "Pappy' Gunn, the Commerce Destroyer B-25s, and skip bombing. I've heard others say skip bombing was developed by the Aussies and Brits, but I believe Kenny and his "kids" were the first.

[@donberry7657]

My bosses wife just walked in as I work on their home listening to this. She asked what I was listening to and I started to explain. After about 10 seconds she said, "Never mind, you've already lost me, I have no idea what you're talking about." I really enjoyed this video though.

[@Vito_Tuxedo]

Greg: The detail in this video is the icing on the cake in the already brilliant case you made in your recent debate with Mr. Marshall, in which you effectively devastated the myth that the disastrous 8th Air Force losses in 1943 were due to the unavailability of a fighter with sufficient range to provide escort cover. The Bomber Mafia's refusal to equip P-47s with drop tanks was, in my view, criminally negligent. Superb work, as usual. Looking forward to the follow-up video on actual Pacific theater missions. - Vito

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

Thanks Vito.

[@drgondog]

Have you considered that your remark might sound a little silly? Your position is that the P-47C, as it existed in August 1943 was capable of escorting 8th AF to Schweinfurt (410mi from Halesworth, 460mi from Debden). Greg's tortuous calculation summary is for a hypothetical 220gal steel tank that is presented with NO escort duties, instead of tethering the P-47s to the bombers, in what the AAF described as a Fighter Mission. All straight line calcs with no essing to restrict ground speed to that of the bombers. The 'charts' reproduced by Greg 1945 - which superceded the 8th AF document - cites the demonstrated ranges as Fighter Mission. Also Note that straight line cruise speed in lower right corner of P-47C Pilot manual for 200gal Republic Ferry tank is 200mph IAS, which at sea level is shown to be ~2.1miles per gallon - not the 2.6 he slipped in for the presentation. The losses WERE caused by P-47C limitations with the only usable drop tank available to P-47C mount scheme for Schweinfurt mission. What could have been possible even if the Republic tank was capable of delivering fuel above 20,000 feet, is speculation becuase only the 7psi version was ever made. At 12:13, the discussion of Australia 200 gal tank notes that it fed saisfactorily to 17,000 feet with the C-9 electric pump (bottom of page). Greg provided anecdotal references to 28 and 30K missons, but has yet to document that the Brisbane tank SOP was to climb above and cruise mostly at higher altitudes until fuel was drained. I posed a simple challenge -prove your beliefs with documented 5th AF Mission Summaries for 348FG missions through December 1943. They exist. hey will have the data including TO and Land times, R/V location and altitudes if escort to C-47 or B-25 or B-24/-17, and Break Escort times.. All required before any range calculation makes sense. I also pointed out that 9th FG P-38s were the LR dominant fighter for bomber escort. Your belief system accepts that the 'bomber mafia' would knowingly risk the AAF strategic bombardment vision based on stubborn belief that the bomber would always get through, when in fact that myth was punctured in Spanish Civil War and BoB. "They HOPED' that the 8th AF could fight its way without continuous escort, but were in process of speeding up LR capability of P-51B and P-38J in mid 1943 before the Schwenfurt- Regensburg disaster smacked the AAF leadership. Certainly 'they' (whether they were Eisenhower or Marshall) regretted pulling P-38s out of 8th AF and sending them to Africa. Consider the differences had the oiginal four P-38Fgs were the escort instead of he 1943 version P-47C?

[@cvr527]

@@drgondog There are numerous examples of US leadership making arbitrary decisions that cost lives. Abandoning onboard guns in fighters, running convoys at the same time of day, on the same day of the week. Posting small units on remote outposts and beyond the range of fire support. Arbitrarily changing the specified cartridge propellant in the M193 Ball, etc. That is just off the top of my head. Generals & Admirals tend to have enormous egos that override their brains. I have personally seen/experienced this an multiple occasions. At any given moment in US Military history there are as many incompetent Generals and Admirals as there are competent ones. Some who became famous in spite of their incompetence.

[@Vito_Tuxedo]

@@drgondog - I appreciate your erudite and articulate 4-paragraph burst of factoids, but they are largely irrelevant to Greg's point, as I understand it. The fact remains that Gen. Kenney proved the time-honored maxim, "Where there's a will, there's a way". The point is that 8th Air Force command didn't have the will, leaving you with the belief that there was no way. Actually, you're right; there really was no way if they wouldn't even try.

[@Spgonahan]

@@Vito_Tuxedo Very funny response.

[@timmccormack710]

Ford Australia built the Brisbane tanks. Designed and built 100 tanks in 10 days. Ford Australia built 68,499 tanks from August 1943 onwards. Small women welded the tanks together from the inside. Ford Australia was a major supplier of war material to the Pacific theatre. Cheers.

[@DMZDMX1]

Eagle Farm (no "S") became a landing field in about the mid-1920s. It is famous for Kingsford-Smith's arrival there at the conclusion of the first flight across the Pacific (amongst a few others). The original airport built there was much closer to the City. It was about 5 miles downstream from the main reach of the river, which contained most of the domestic port infrastructure at the town. Larger ships berthed at Hamilton which is much closer to the airport. There was a military wharf there too. There is a major rock bar across the river nearby which ultimately led to all of the port facilities being relocated to the river mouth today. A big bridge goes right above the rock bar now. In 1942 the main airport was at Archerfield which is today a general aviation airport in Brisbane's south. The main RAAF field was and is Amberley just south of Ipswich, a separate city, to Brisbane's south west. Initially, aircraft were unloaded from ships near Hamilton and towed/trucked out to Amberley for construction by the RAAF airframe fitters there. This was mainly P40s and P39s with a few P38s thrown in. B26s seem to have been flown directly into Archerfield, but don't quote me on that one. In February 1942 ships were diverted to Brisbane whilst en-route to the Phillipines. Army personnel were initially bivouaced at the Eagle Farm race course. It was a swampy area with heat, rain and mosquitoes and it was late summer. There was nothing for them to do and movement was restricted. Morale wasn't high. The traffic and general inefficiency required a massive adjustment. The US rapidly decided to fund upgrades to the port facilities and a major upgrade to the Eagle Farm Airport so that aircraft arriving by ship could be assembled there. Additional freight areas were built for storage and redistribution. An amazing amount of those buildings (re-purposed) still stand today and are easily found. A new Eagle farm airport was constructed to replace the WW2 build and was opened during the bi-centenary year 1988. It is to the north of the old airport but shares some of its infrastructure at the south end. Interestingly the first aircraft to use the new airport (before it officially opened) was the visiting USAAF Thunderbird team who decided to put on a full impromptu display there after seeking permission to use the fully ready but not opened main runway. Impressed by the AC/DC reference too! Thanks.

[@jimmahon3417]

LOVE that recent color image of the Brisbane tank just past 20 minutes in - it gives me all the structural details the wartime images seem to lack. The hanger hardware is more elegant and slender than the earlier images seemed to indicate. Thanks, Greg! (Edit, after watching to the end) Thanks also for the details on the aft internal tank mod!

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

It would be cool to see the model makers run with this.

[@dukecraig2402]

That tank is in Australia in the hands of a private collector who snatched it out of a junk yard saving it from being scrapped, the other Brisbane tank that still exists is also in Australia, it's in a heritage museum on top of an antique tractor, after the war someone repurposed it for a fuel tank for their farm tractor, apparently they wanted more range.

[@ozatwar]

There are at least another 4 Brisbane tanks existing in North Queensland.

[@RadMax8]

@@dukecraig2402 Well harvesting radius is limited by the internal fuel load, so counting warmup and driving to the field, how much fuel was used, and did the fuel get replaced from the drop tank? And what would cause one to drop the tank in the field? Crows, locusts, something worse?? 🤣

[@dukecraig2402]

@@RadMax8 An attack from Aboriginie's.

[@whiskey11niner]

Great video per usual Greg, it’s really cool to see some more content on thunderbolts in the pacific, to me at least the pacific thunderbolts always seem forgotten, until you get to the Novembers escorting B29s

[@dukecraig2402]

There's a P47 November pilot named Martin Jackson who did 2 interviews when he was still alive that are here on KZbin, he doesn't say anything about escorting B29's and I don't believe he did, but he flew mission's over Japan on sweeps, one of them was over one of the cities the day after it had one of the atomic bombs dropped on it, I can't remember which one, he had a few interesting things to say about what he observed especially about how all the streets and sideways looked like they'd been swept clean by a giant broom, everything was rubble but there was none on the streets and sidewalks he said. He also tells an interesting story that I've never heard before about how P51's were removed from ground attack mission's, it seems the coral based soil that made up the islands had a tendency to make their .50 cal rounds ricochet back up in front of them and P51's with their vulnerable liquid cooled engine's were flying through their own rounds and shooting themselves down, at first when P51's were mysteriously disappearing during the long flights back to their islands no one could figure it out until some made it back that didn't have their cooling system damaged and the ground crews pulled .50 cal slugs out of them and they figured it out so they removed P51's from ground attack mission's. They didn't have the stellar reputation in the Pacific that they enjoyed in Europe, because of the B29's computer augmented defensive guns giving it an 11 to 1 kill to loss ratio against Japanese fighter's which was higher than the P51's 10.2 to 1 kill to loss ratio after the war the USAAF said in a report that the use of P51's as a fighter escort for the B29 had been a waste of fighter resources that would have been better used elsewhere. Look up those interviews with Martin Jackson, they're pretty interesting.

[@whiskey11niner]

@@dukecraig2402 thanks I’ll check it out

[@rare_kumiko]

Great video, the debate left me about 90% sure you were in the right, and I am fully convinced now.

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

Thanks, I'll get up even more receipts in the next video. I couldn't fit them all into this one.

[@airplanes42]

One million times yes. The naysayers on a certain web forum have been very quiet.....

[@SoloRenegade]

yet, p-38 were already ranging over the Pacific with 165 and 300gal tanks in 1943 with little to no interference. and P-47 were experimenting and using tanks in ETO anyways in 1943. even in the south pacific with a viable 200gal tank, under the command of a pro-P-47 commander, P-47 still couldn't reach rabaul in 1943.

[@bryanwheeler1608]

@@SoloRenegade P38s encountered formidable interference from Mitsubishi A6Ms.

[@SoloRenegade]

@@bryanwheeler1608 what's your point? every US fighter in the pacific faced Zeros and other japanese aircraft. And P-38s, P-40s, F4F, P-39, F6F, F4U, P-51, and more all scored favorably against them.

[@siyz250]

Jees, where to start. Firstly Greg, thank you for what you do. This is a quality product, my favourite channel by far. Im a relatively clued up warbird nerd, have grown up in an aviation family and work as a powerplant engineer for P&W. This said l have learned so much and really want to commend you. Keep it up. Aviation is interesting, (engineering & flying) WW2 aviation is, in my opinion another level of interesting. Well done. Si, Christchurch, New Zealand.

[@jeremywilson4326]

Politics ruins everything it gets close to . I'm sure we can really do without it . Your a great teacher Greg . Thank you .

[@jankom.7783]

This video perfectly demonstrates how difficult is to solve even seemingly simple problems

[@gregorybrennan8539]

THANK YOU so much. The channel UNAUTHORIZED HISTORY OF THE PACIFIC just touched on the Bomber Mafias impact on the Jug fighter and drop tanks. That, with your in-depth knowledge of technology and areonotics, has given anyone that watches a broad learning experience. Thank you. I am assuming that Ford Australia used their expertise with an ENGLISH WHEEL. This is a transferable skill from the automotive industry that could make in the field drop tank fabrication possible.

[@964cuplove]

I love all the facts and numbers you dig up on your P-47 crusade….

[@SoloRenegade]

but he leaves out tons of inconvenient details too. like how the P-47 vs P-38 dogfight was intentionally stacked in the P-47 favor. Or how the P-38 were already using 165-300gal tanks in 1943 without interference. or how the P-47 even with a viable 200gal tank still couldn't reach Rabaul in 1943. or how the P-47N even with 1300gal total fuel (570gal internal) still couldn't reach Japan from Iwo Jima.

[@JakobM16]

​@@SoloRenegade sources

[@SoloRenegade]

@@JakobM16 Same sources as greg. But here are some titles for you. Pacific Profiles Volume 10 (Michael J Claringbould) Squardons! No.2 and No.23 (Phil H Listemann) General Kenny Reports (George C Kenney), primary source for the comment in question case, read pages 264-265, in which Kenney describes how he stacked teh deck to prove a point, then ended the mock dogfights before the P-38 gained the upper hand and the point of the mock fight was ruined) Kenney also describes how his P-47s lacked range to reach Rabaul and other issues. Negative details Greg conveniently ignores. Kearby's Thunderbolts (John C Stanaway) I have about 40 books on teh P-47, units, etc, with more on teh way, as well as manuals, reports, etc. Pretty much all teh sources greg cites and more.

[@rcktnut4397]

I absolutely love the detail of doing flight calculations! Can't wait for the missions video.

[@bartransom5308]

Greg: there is no one that quantifies the dynamics of the engineering and the relation of the availability of performance to the pilot, and the potential it could have made in the battle space like you do. I cannot express the quality of your insight to the enthusiast like my self that imagines using the machine in time, and facing the theater opposition while trying to wring out survival in a type. Well done sir!

[@darrenharvey6084]

I'm born and bred in Brisbane. and it is Eagle Farm not Eagle farms . Thanks for pronouncing Brisbane correctly .

[@LJS01]

Was that the race course in the back of the photo of the airfield? I didn't recognize the town until I saw that 🏇 🙂

[@djshowtrial4565]

This is an awesome follow up to the debate and effectively addresses any challenge to the argument that the range limitations of the P-47 were imposed by intrusive “bomber mafia” policy. The argument is airtight!! The fact that Kenney could solve the problem with a little outsourcing is probably all you need to know and Greg goes way beyond that which is great and adds some humor at times to the video.

[@donbalduf572]

Excellent work! Thanks for giving me excellent info for my occasional trips to the National Museum of the USAF with friends and visitors to the area. I’m not any kind of a pilot, so your work is very educational.

[@cheesenoodles8316]

Into the weeds we go, "Brisben drop tanks" The 5th and their field modifications are cool. Excellent video

[@appaho9tel]

'Uncle' Greg, you have proven your point beyond any further resistance. All must submit.

[@tjh44961]

My dad has a saying about ignorant people that I have heard all of my life. "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts!" My corollary to that is that it really doesn't matter what your IQ is, you can still be ignorant. And I've also observed that intelligent people can be so convinced that because they are smart, they couldn't possibly be wrong.

[@PMcKay00]

Great work on this topic. It makes a lot of sense. A somewhat related topic are the local weapons that Australia produced when WW2 started and England could no longer be relied upon for supply. The CAC Boomerang fighter, Sentinel tank, and Owen gun being notable examples. They may not have been cutting edge, or ended up being as needed due to US supply becoming available, but it was a very large effort from a small population with a small industrial base.

[@rayschoch5882]

Good stuff, Greg, as usual. Looking forward to the next one. I confess that I've never even thought about the P-47 in a Pacific context. I usually think in terms of the P-38 as the USAAF fighter in the Pacific theater until the P-51 arrived. My bad.

[@jaym8027]

Good point. Eric Bergerud did a magisterial job on the Pacific Air War some years ago in his Fire in the Sky, but I don't recall him making much of the P-47. He did a good job of defending the performance of the P-40 and P-39.

[@dramjet7]

Check Six by Jim Curran is a great read of P47s in New Guinea and Phillipines.

[@jaym8027]

@@dramjet7 Thank you for the recommendation. I'll add it to the list.

[@bryanwheeler1608]

The P40 was the fighter that took the first brunt of war. It was not a spectacular performer, but it was "tough as old boots". P40s were Darwin's best defence against the almost daily air raids, until Spitfires became available. The Spit fliers looked down on the humble "P40 drivers" until they intercepted their first raid & were badly mauled by the Zeros. They then listened to the "Kittyhawk" boys, & adopted a similar way of dealing with Zeros to that used by BF109 pilots against Spitfires.

[@jaym8027]

@@dramjet7 I wanted to thank you for the recommendation - that really was a fantastic read. Good luck to you!

[@sidefx996]

Eye opening for sure. Fantastic video. Sad how many good men died because of large egos.

[@EricCoop]

I read War Plan ORANGE at the Naval Warfare College 16 years ago and I still love the book.

[@bendearborn1033]

Great video. Big fan of Kirby and his mostly forgotten contributions. Thanks.

[@terrywallace5181]

Enjoyed this video, and I am looking forward to the next one about operations.

[@LtCdrRoyFokker]

While you've definitely changed my mind on the P-47 with your excellent series of videos regarding this airplane (including this one as the latest), I do hope you'll cover in depth that other somewhat overlooked red-headed stepchild (compared with the Corsair) of WW2 in the Hellcat someday. :) I know you've included it in various videos (like the Corsair and Hellcat vs the FW-190 and Bf-109) but I keep holding out hope you'll cover the remaining R2800 fighter of the war with its own video someday.

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

I will do that.

[@moss8448]

Excellent break down. Kenny really did end up being the right person at the right time, as was quite a few WWII leaders. As a side thought think of all the bomber casualties brought on by Bomber Mafia thinking especially in Europe.

[@seanquigley3605]

If not mistaken an early war Pacific P-47 is under restoration. Maybe contact them and see if they have found where the extra pump went.

[@alfredmasullo]

I never realized how much of a problem a dumb drop tank could become. I just figured it was a fuel-tight elliptical metal tank that could be manufactured by anybody as easy as pie.

[@raybennett8130]

Greg, A Very credible set of arguments on the feasibility and effectiveness of early AAF drop tank development. You make another well thought through set of rational arguments on the P-47. Thank you and keep up the really, really enjoyable KZbin videos!

[@RalphTempleton-vr6xs]

MrNicoJac got it right, Greg. Mac was in no way shape or form going to have anyone else's name in the papers but his, and Doolittle would have been competition for publicity

[@FinsburyPhil]

As ever Greg, just a fantastic in-depth look at a subject. Well researched, well edited, well delivered.

[@michaeltabeling2168]

Greg you are right with your items 23 to 25. The comment in brackets at item 23 says: from charger to the drop tank. If you run into trouble on german documents, contact me. I will be happy to help. Thanks for your efforts. Best regards.

[@Token_Civilian]

I love it when history YTers go to period documentation to make their case. Great stuff Greg. You really laid out the facts and data from the period primary sources.

[@neilrobinson3085]

Thank you Greg! Great stuff.

[@sailordude2094]

I could get college credits on WW2 drop tanks after watching these shows. Thanks!

[@leoa4c]

The tanks being produced and implemented, in two days, in the field, show what can be done when several layers of bureaucracy are completely bypassed. In my view, a beautiful lesson which is just as valid in today's world. It is not a coincidence that Kelly Johnson tried everything he could in order to keep Skunk Works as included and as free from bureaucracy, as much as possible. Even the Manhattan project, as secret as it tried to be, had to do away with compartmentalization (to a significant extent) and bureaucratic bottlenecks. This lesson has been put forward in other military areas. Tank crews improvising counter-measures as to improve theirs and/or the tank's survivability, modifications of small arms, in the field, has always happened to an extent or another, etc. So, how can this be of use in the civilian world? One must allow positions to be bypassed. A single man or woman in the assembly line may have an idea which could save a company in dire straights. Someone in the marketing department may have a great idea on how to speed up production, and so on.

[@pizzagogo6151]

Thanks for covering this, I find much of the early period of pacific war it’s often a bit forgotten. (Also props for nailing the almost-native pronunciation of Brisbane 😊.)

[@turkeytrac1]

Great vid, love the ac/dc reference and the Ward air tri jet. Ward Air was based in my province of Alberta. Love the bomber mafia reference too!

[@jaym8027]

A very welcome return to form. A very interesting video.

[@JK-rv9tp]

This is kind of tragic. Bomber crews were lost because of the lack of escorts because of the bureaucratic politics over drop tanks in the pre-P51 era in Europe. P-47s were used by the RAF in India/Burma. My dad was flying RCAF C-47s from RAF Tulihal near Imphal, as part of the Combat Cargo Task Force supporting the British assault on Mandalay. He talked of watching Jugs (and USAAF B-25s) do suppression of Japanese positions near the drop zone while the Dakotas "stooged", orbited, waiting for the signal to go in. The trip from Tulihal to the Mandalay area was only about 200 nm.

[@jefaus06]

Coincidences, on top of coincidences. I work just up the road from Hangar 7 at Eagle Farm in Brisbane. Quite a few of the Hangars from WWII are still in use today across Eagle Farm.

[@chrisdebeyer1108]

This is an amazing review thank you. The thought that the B17s in Europe could have been escorted by P47 but weren’t because of let’s say a lack of communications is sad beyond words.

[@MrSiwat]

Wow! Thanks for the great information and the PDF. Really interesting video.

[@Backfence711]

So looking forward to this!

[@zJoriz]

I love Greg's lectures.

[@colinellis5243]

Excellent research, brilliant myth busting and brilliant fact based presentation. Also first time I have ever heard about the Ford Australia built drop tank thanks!!

[@mytube001]

Small suggestion for future videos: see if you can add a white outline to black text, or black outline to white text, when you overlay it. Or put the text in a contrasting background box. Makes it easier to read without having to pause. Black on partial black (text in the underlying image) is hard to read quickly.

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

That's a good idea. I'm not sure I can do it, but it I can I will.

[@78jog89]

Clearly, your channel is one of the best researched, lucid, and intrinsically worthwhile sites on YT. This topic, in particular, to me, represents a significant revision to the historical record regarding escort fighters in WW2. And it's about time. Scapegoating "droptanks" for the USAAF bomber losses in 1943 remains an historical inaccuracy and should be amended. That the Bomber Mafia held fast to its pre-war mantra is unsurprising: But obfuscation of the historical record to cover up strategic failures serves no real purpose.

[@SeattleJeffin]

"Whole lotta Rosey" Nice reference 😀

[@lqr824]

oh, and apropos, it's an Aussie band so it all clicks!

[@johnking6252]

My grandfather served under MacArthur in NG his only comment about him was something about a SOB . Only thing he said about it. 👍 🇺🇲

[@ZevGross]

So he and President Truman saw eye to eye on the subject...

[@daiichidoku]

11:31 Wardair was amazing! RIP Max Ward. what a guy!

[@PaulMacQ]

I instantly thought the reason Doolittle not getting job, was a hero with larger than life profile. Dug out Doug would have hated anybody with Public profile be as big as his own.

[@clarkenoble]

Please reference the lengthy comment I posted on this very topic yesterday. Unfortunately, I think you are peddling more anti-MacArthur propaganda, whether you know it or not. Hopefully, my post will shed light on a different viewpoint for you to consider. Thanks.

[@2shortplanks-fx3ox]

Greg if i was a fighter pilot in ww2 i wouldn't want to be in any other plane other than Republic P47 Thunderbolt they got the design fundamentally right, personally for me it personifies every thing good about American engineering, i hated aircraft that placed a fuel tank in front of the pilot with the glaring obvious danger of incinerating the pilot in his seat once it was ignited by enemy cannon, or flak impacts etc. Greg your contribution to ww2 aviation technical histories and developments of various aircraft types on you tube is absolutely outstanding in every respect and i hold it in the highest regard and wish thank you so much for all your hard work and endless research on this important subject of ww2. you are the go to person for this type of in depth knowledge and analysis.

[@ashleyhall1362]

Absolutely excellent research and content, Greg. So interesting and entertaining. Really unique work! 😉👍

[@michaelpabian1672]

Thanks for the excellent video and research

[@jaredneaves7007]

Hi Greg, always excited to see another of your videos. My Grandfather navigated in a B24 Liberator for the RAAF bombing Rabaul etc and was flying back from one of those raids when the Japanese attacked Darwin so had to get rerouted to Cairns. I would love any more vids on these guys as I never got to talk to him about it.

[@andrewjensen7413]

Great video on Range of the droptanks on P-47 and how much Bullsh they had to deal with from outside people who had their own interests in it.👍

[@TheNinjaGumball]

I got to see Bonnie (the restored P47 Razorback Greg mentioned) at her firsr airshow debut at EAA last year and by God was she a beautiful sight. I can't wait to see her again this summer

[@RogerGibson-pz5wl]

Greg - in the past, I have praised you as a historian, which is indisputable. This time, I'm giving you a shout out for the AC/DC "Whole Lotta Rosie" reference - which is entirely appropriate, give the Australian context of this discussion!

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

Thanks. I'm glad you understood the reference.

[@garymalone547]

Loved the design of the P38 since I was a kid. Mosquito too of course, but you know, it's got wood.

[@davidnancarrow6158]

Name the war and you get leadership with their preconceived notions of what is supposed to be rather than what is effective, such as WWII drop tanks, Korean war no crossing the Yalu to hit Communist Chinese airfields (some later admitted they did) to the heavy restrictions on US fighters over North Viet Nam which basically wiped out much of the superiority of US fighters. Apparently some of those who lead the war feel the need to restrict those actually fighting the war, be it air, sea or ground. Great video and answers a lot of questions of us who don't fly in a very understandable fashion.

[@ianrwatson5974]

I volunteered at a museum in the archives and found a picture that was taken from a B29 in the Pacific looking at the underbelly of a P47.

[@Merlinemryys]

Never ceases to amaze me how many short sighted Armed services can be on allowing details that allow things to work better for all concerned to eventual detrement of forward actions. Even today how often the air force tries to kill the A10. During WWII Look at this tank matter, Look at losses the daylight bombing had before the P51.

[@audiophil4946]

Excellent analysis as always Greg, thank you!

[@jonginder5494]

Greg I love the fact that you a/ pronounce Brisbane correctly and b/ added an AC/DC reference re the Thunderbolt!!

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

Thanks, I am trying, and I wasn't sure anyone would get that reference. It pleases me that a few have :)

[@kiwidiesel]

😂 Sensitive aussies and their pronouns iation.

[@jonginder5494]

Kinda odd that there’s not an AC/DC song called “thunderbolt”?!

[@michaeldunn6690]

Wardair...wow thats a throwback here in Canada

[@HammerheadClassCruiser]

literally saw Bonnie fly in St. Louis this past Sunday.

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

Nice.

[@pipipupu4359]

36:57 damn good picture...! Looks awesome, one can only see little white tails cruising

[@whiteyfarm]

Good video, lots of info.Towards the beginning of the video there is a photo of the Brisbane tank built by Ausie Ford that shows the access port toward the front open. It is a round hole and it is secured by 4 blots. That port is large enough to get a good sized fuel pump into the tank plus a float for the fuel level indicator. My guess is that they had an internal fuel pump in the tank and not an external one fitted to bump up the fuel pressure to prevent vapor lock. That seems to me to be the best way to go. Thanks for the excellent explanation.

[@daveseniw2380]

When talking P-47/range/bombers over Germany, don't forget to mention the bomber crews that were killed/wounded/captured due to the mafia's "we don't need help" approach. Your work is fantastic, more please...

[@johncrowley5612]

I suspect there could be some confusion re. tank capacity. Ford Australia would be using an imperial gallon, not a U.S. gallon. The imperial gallon is approximately 20% larger than the U.S. gallon.

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

Yes, in fact the Pacific Theater Thunderbolt manual has the capacities in Imperial Gallons with US gallons in parenthesis. However the Brisbane tank holds 220 US Gallons.

[@SoloRenegade]

no, not how it works. if the US designed a 200gal tank, then modified that tank, then it remains US gal. But as greg points out, the gal designations are not always 100% accurate to their true volumes, just like how engine Cubic Inches are rounded to a nearby value. All US flight manuals will remain in US gal for flight planning as well.

[@ianwalter62]

@@SoloRenegade Except in this case, apparently. Oops.

[@brians8607]

A cool transfer system would be to tap air pressure off the turbo charger discharge run through a small regulator if necessary. Use the air to pressurize the drop tank(s). Route transfer fuel from the drop tank(s) to the internal fuel supply through a float valve. All the line connections from drop tank to aircraft would be through self sealing valves that would close once the lines were pulled away. This would add some complexity adding a transfer system, but simplify fuel feed to the engine.

[@nkgoodal]

Great video. George C. Kenney doesn't get enough credit. His emphasis on tactical and operational aviation, along with use of bombers, shows how visionary he was. There were a lot of great Army generals in the Pacific, such as Kenney, Eichelberger, Krueger, and many others. MacArthur's preference for his own publicity means they didn't get as much recognition. Sadly, the US Army's and (Army Air Force's) history in the Pacific in WWII suffers due to MacArthur's checkered history.

[@airplanes42]

Man, the guys on a certain WW2 aviation website are going to be going into vapor lock....

[@jamesoliver6625]

The fact that Dolittle was famous to the public virtually guaranteed that MacArthur would pick Kinney.

[@curtisbryce5096]

Robert S. Johnson's book made me love the P-47.

[@warrenjones744]

Nicely done Greg. The Thunderbolt always had my interest even way back when in the 70's when I built even model I could of WWII planes I built a couple P-47's Cheers

[@russjames316]

Impeccable timing! I'll be in Brisbane in 3-weeks time (first trip to Australia.) Looks like the Greg-mentioned Eagle Farm (4:17mark) grew-up into Brisbane Int'l Airport. I plan to keep an eye out for Thunderbolt bits n bobs, or any dropped tanks.

[@eamo106]

Missed the whole P-47 drop tank debate on the European theater, I am just a WWII fan/books etc for 40 years, just a ground based fan, I was expecting a conclusion ? I guess I missed it. I love your inputs Greg, a very intelligent and smart historian ! I wonder how these two videos combine at the same times ? Is there a Final AT THE SAME TIME conclusion video coming ? WHY Greg ? Tell us what we all suspect ?

[@moblinmajorgeneral]

26:52 When you consider the Battle of Midway, the SBDs very obviously exceeded their quoted range numbers in their search for the Japanese carrier force. And most of them were still able to make it back to the American carriers.

[@stephenkayser3147]

Sir I found your information informative and thorough. The P-47 was an impressive performer. I am pleased to see my city of Brisbane noted and especially Eagle Farm airport which remains today a light aircraft airfield and the name of a suburb of Brisbane. I was not aware of the Thunderbolt being in the Pacific though knowing of many other types including the Kittyhawk and our Boomerang (worth checking). Drop tanks are a "no brainer". They are a great advantage in any theatre (Luftwaffe would have been grateful for them in the Battle of Britain). The P-47's arrival in Brisbane (pop. 335,000) is not too surprising as it was General Mc Arthur's headquarters and main base for the Pacific and headquarters which was located in the AMP Building in Queen Street Brisbane (an insurance company (say no more) which is still well respected in Australia). As for the drop tanks check how long Australia took to build the Boomerang fighter and other items including tanks etc. (not a bad effort). When Mc Arthur arrived in our newly built temporary (1927- 1988) parliament house in our newly built capital Canberra I understand he had to drive through some sheep as it had to been a sheep farm before its reuse. It might be worth noting our Prime Minister Curtin worked with and stood up to both Churchill and Roosevelt (and met both) at critical times to save our nation (hence the U.S. presence in Aust.). P.S. He died from the stress in the last year of the war. P.P.S. He became our Prime Minister due to the deciding votes of the troops fighting in North Africa (e.g. Tobruk successfully against General Rommel etc.). We only became a nation instead of a group of colonies in 1901(population four million). In 1940 we had a population of seven million people.

[@TempusFugit1159]

Re your reference to the loss of 27 P-51s on 6/1/45: fuel shortage had no bearing on this; Mustangs escorting B-29s on mission to Osaka attempted to punch through a solid weather front, encountered severe thunderheads and were flying blind in extreme turbulence; some were lost in mid-air collisions and others forced down by winds.

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

"some"

[@samadams2203]

Amazing how well the US did considering how many branches had these kinds of nonsensical infighting(at least they weren't the IJA and IJN I suppose). Mark 14 torpedo, tank destroyer branch vs armor branch and probably many others caused huge problems that shouldn't have been a problem if people had just rubberstamped something instead of hoarding control.

[@cringepog2758]

I should point out MacArthur thought everyone but himself under delivered, and general kenny was something of a Yes man who Worshipped MacArthur almost as much as MacArthur did

[@clarkenoble]

Really? Yes man? Interesting. Please reference the lengthy comment I posted on this very topic yesterday. Unfortunately, I think you are peddling more anti-MacArthur propaganda, whether you know it or not. Hopefully, my post will shed light on a different viewpoint for you to consider. Thanks.

[@BLD426]

MacArthur didn't want anybody taking his limelight.

[@External2737]

That was my thought. Doolittle was a camera magnet, MacArthur wouldn't abide by that.

[@steveperreira5850]

For Sure…. That’s what I was thinking!!

[@clarkenoble]

Please reference the lengthy comment I posted on this very topic yesterday. Unfortunately, I think you are peddling more anti-MacArthur propaganda, whether you know it or not. Hopefully, my post will shed light on a different viewpoint for you to consider. Thanks.

[@BLD426]

@clarkenoble Will do, and yes, I'm peddling anti-MacArthur vibes.😁

[@rayopeongo]

Wardair DC-10 shout out! I actually rode on one of those once.