Pacemaker, ICD, and CRT interactions with iPhone 12's (and all smartphones)

Can a pacemaker, defibrillator or CRT patient safely use a smart phone, in particular an iPhone 12? The answer is yes, with some minor precautions. Learn how to safely use a smart phone, even an iPhone 12 with the MagSafe recharging system.
Check out this video to learn more about how our implanted devices can safely interact with magnets: • Pacemaker/ICD interact...
Watch this video to learn about ElectroMagnetic Interference (EMI) and how it can affect an implanted device: • Using Household Items ...
****Please remember I am not a medical professional giving medical advice. Questions about device interactions with items like smart phones should be directed to the manufacturer of your device, your device representative, or your doctor/clinic/healthcare team.
(Thumbnail art is owned by Apple)

[@bethreinecker2844]

Thank you Doug for the information. I just received my pacemaker a week ago and I find your information very helpful. Thank you.

[@danielk.2663]

Great videos, have been wearing an icd for four years but I was always uncertain about which things to use, how and why. Really good to know, at most places you just see a don't and no because! Thanks!

[@princeofpyrex4581]

Thank you Doug! I’m so thankful for your help!

[@steveethelston7047]

Doug - It's my one year anniversary of having the Medtronic? ICD fitted. I have forgotten its in there, and so far, it's done nothing except monitor............which is good.

[@MPW4410]

Such great information…thank you.

[@renitasagun8279]

Thank you for the information, very much appreciated!! Merry Christmas

[@taproom113]

Good stuff. Thanx for all you do, Doug! Carry on ... ^v^

[@mcalii]

Thank you Doug, I have just found your channel and subbed. I am considering an iPhone 12 Pro Max as an upgrade from my 7plus. CUrrently I use the phone on the otherside from my ICD and/or in speakerphone mode and keep the phone in my trouser pocket. I have a Boston Scientific Pacemaker and Defibrillator fitted last year and I am just trying to obtain information on using an iPhone 12. Thank you again for making this video

[@richardcable3168]

Your videos are informative and very helpful. Thank you very much.

[@GabiPGonzalez]

Great video. I have a question about percusion massagers like the Theragun for muscle tension, is that something not recommended if the person has an ICD?

[@kohfreddy9637]

thanks bro for the information 🙏🏻

[@meszimate]

Hi Douglas, What do you think, If I remove the magsafe from iPhone 12-13, is it will eliminate all "danger"? So the stronger magnet is only in magsafe? I can remove it in a repair shop, currently I am an android user thinking about switch to iPhone but I have a pacemaker.

[@DouglasRachac]

Hello Mate’, you could remove the MagSafe magnet, but it’s really not much of a concern. As long as you keep the iPhone at least 6 inches from your device you won’t have any problem at all. The magnet isn’t strong enough to be a major concern. I hope that helps.

[@MMm-ng4vb]

Thank you from africa

[@joeb8662]

Hi Doug. I wonder what the manufacturers suggest about exercising with weights? My doctor didn't like the idea as he was worried that it might cause a lead to fail from bending too much.

[@DouglasRachac]

The device manufacturers always defer to physicians. They say you should discuss the issue with your doctor and follow their lead. But, they also test their leads 20 different ways. Below is a video taken during a tour of a testing lab at one of the big device manufacturers. While looking at the “pinch” test I asked how many pinches those leads had already been through. 9 million, without a fracture. I see that and find it hard to believe that lifting some weights would be an issue. However…. I’m not a medical professional. You should talk to your doctor and discuss. Also, check out a guy on Facebook named Johnny Davis. He has an ICD and lifts some serious weights. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYCblp-Yl5p7qbs

[@joeb8662]

@@DouglasRachac That is exactly the type of information that I am interested in. Thanks for the info and for the very helpful videos.

[@caapstad]

About to have a CRT done. I’m wondering why yours in on your right side?

[@DouglasRachac]

I have an anatomical anomaly called persistent left superior vena cava. It’s not a dangerous condition, it just means the veins leading into my heart are flipped from where they should be. This made it easier to get the leads into my heart from the right side. We could have gone with a traditional left sided implant, it just would have been more difficult, but I don’t mind having it on my right/dominant side, so we went with that. Good luck on your CRT implant!

[@caapstad]

@@DouglasRachac Thsnk you Douglas I have found your vids very helpful. Having a heart attack, delayed treatment and Stent the heart muscle is now severely damaged. Scary times indeed. Appreciate you for sharing and helping people who have no idea what to expect.

[@michaeldalton6886]

Doug I know you are not a medical professional but you are very aware of the effects of magnets on implanted device patients. My wife loves to make homemade earrings that include magnets and I have concerns about people with pacemakers, icd, crtd, defibrillators. She sells them and is giving the proceeds to charitable programs. She finds great satisfaction in doing this, and I really don't want to be the one to end her joy! The magnets end up 6-7" above the place you refer to for your pacemaker. They can be up to 30 gauss. I am concerned could someone have the shock thing turn off without them realizing it because they are wearing the earrings and then if they need a shock it won't work because it is turned off due to the gauss?

[@DouglasRachac]

Hi Michael, thanks for watching, and that’s a great question. While the med-tech companies recommend 6 inches of distance the magnets you’re describing are NOT going to be a problem. Magnetic strength dissipates very quickly over distance, and the 6-inch recommendation has easily twice the needed distance built in as a safety measure. Magnetic strength dissipates so quickly that a much stronger magnet isn’t even a concern at 4 or 5 inches. You can see at the 3:20 mark in this video ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqeWg2hte7B3eKcsi=j1t7kFZYsd8BpJHo ) that I use a 90 gauss magnet on my ICD and that magnet doesn’t trip the alarm until its within 3-4 inches. Plus, that’s a huge magnet with a large surface area. 30 gauss magnetic earrings just aren’t going to cause an interaction with anyone’s device at 3+ inches. The only thing to be concerned about is if someone wearing the earrings lays their head on the chest of someone who has a pacemaker or defibrillator. Then there might be an interaction, but it’s only for as long as the magnet is on top of the implanted device. So as long as a person isn’t sleeping while wearing those earrings next to a a partner who has an implanted device there really isn’t going to be a problem. I hope that helps!

[@michaeldalton6886]

Douglas, thank you very much for you're quick response! Your knowledge and experience is very helpful. 631k subscribers indicates that you have been helpful to many people. Thank you for all that you have helped. @@DouglasRachac

[@DeviantMotives]

Thank you

[@bossygirl4443]

Hi Doug, your videos are amazing and you do help a lot to us, newbies . 2 weeks ago I've got CRT. One thing I have notice ater long research....as a musician I was told to be careful on the stage as there are a lot of magnets , but no information on internet or given by doctors , or anyone else, what to be careful of, how to find out what things to stay aay from...if you do have any info I would really appreciate it. Thank you in advance :)

[@DouglasRachac]

Hi Bossy Girl (love the name!). Speakers and stage monitors have magnets, but those are only a problem if you plan to hug one. If you keep your device at least 6 inches away from those you’ll be safe. And maybe don’t hug microphones or guitars to your chest. Otherwise, using them normally wouldn’t be a problem. Fun fact: Slash, the lead guitarist for Guns and Roses, has had an ICD since the 1990’s. So, I personally wouldn’t be worried about anything found in a typical stage. I hope that helps!

[@bossygirl4443]

@@DouglasRachac thank you sooooooo much. It does help a lot. It was one of the main questions for me as I would like to continue with the music. Thank you also for all the videos and info, watched them all and am big fun. God bless you )

[@wmiller843]

Hi Doug, great info! I play an electronic midi accordion and will be getting a CRT-D very soon. I’m concerned about this since the closeness of wearing the accordion while entertaining.

[@DouglasRachac]

@@wmiller843 I have to be honest, this is an item I have never received a question about before. After looking at a few dozen pictures of people playing an accordion I’d have to say I just don’t know. The medical device companies will tell you to keep at least 6 inches between your device and the accordion, but it looks like that may not be possible. If your doctor says you need the CRT, you very likely need it. So not getting it probably is not an option. Playing or not accordion in the future is an option. But I’d be reluctant to give it up too. So here’s an idea…. Talk to your doctor and device rep. See if, after your implant, you could run a few tests. They will be able to watch your device in real time if you are in the office with them. Have them monitor your device while you play your accordion. If there’s any kind of interaction they will be able to see that on their programmer. If not, they’ll be able to tell you that your accordion is not causing problems with your device. It’ll still be your choice to play or not, but you’ll at least have some additional information you can use to make the decision. Best of luck to you!

[@wmiller843]

@@DouglasRachac Thank you! You have a very useful channel and help a lot of people:-)

[@keifer4146]

Wanted to mention in my last comment if you’re playing with an electric Rc car that you can rebuild like I’ve been doing for a while it’ll be fine I been playing over more a couple weeks long as yes it’s 6inches or more I keep the Rc car more than 6inches since it’s got a better you hook up and wires plus the controller with batteries. On the other hand I’m still getting my gas powered fixed and would have to try that since I gotta start it with a drill instead of pull start.

[@DouglasRachac]

Hi Keifer, With most things as long as you maintain a little distance between the item you're using and your device you won't have any problems. In most cases 6 inches of distance is enough, so I recommend following what I can the "Don't Hug It" rule. As long as you don't hug items to your chest you will be fine, and that includes power drills.

[@احمدالسماعيل-ق3ن]

Hello, I installed the device 7 years ago and now I want to replace it. They told me not to use the same type as the old device, so we have to put you in the right and plant new wires. Can I get the old type?

[@hgallegos915]

What about credit cards?? Can it wipe them?

[@keifer4146]

There’s been question I been thinking of like. Can some 1 with an ICD, Pacemaker, CRT use a self defense at home weapon or say paintball gun. That would be a great video to have for this type of thing to answer and ask a doctor to.

[@DouglasRachac]

Hi Keifer, Yes, a person with a device can use a paintball gun, or something like a hand gun or taser (just not on yourself, of course). With just about everything a little distance from your device is all you need. In most cases 6 inches of distance is enough.

[@ZAPY45]

Hi Douglas I wonder if a closer “skin to metal” test would give a different result as likely to occur if using phone on chest while lying down. Or say in a thin business cotton shirt pocket with no case. Also some have less muscle and only a thin layer of skin over device. Your test had a separation of several millimetres with 2 layers of clothing and a phone case. I have seen a MacBook Pro laptop trigger a Medtronic CRT- D continuous tone while watching Netflix while lying in bed with laptop on chest. I assume it was the magnets in edge of keyboard base used to secure the screen when closed. While I understand it has only momentarily changed to factory settings and no shock state. Battery life of the device is in itself a concern change involves a operation that may have a significant complication rate. If as mentioned in a previous video accidentally sounding the continuous tone uses was up 20-24 hours of normal operation battery life, that brings the operation a day closer. Does the same comparison of battery usage per tone actuation roughly apply with a CRT- D providing 100% bi polar pacing and expected battery duration of 6 to 7 years? Or were you referring to your pacemaker with approx 1% of time operation? How much battery life does a remote monitoring session use? Really appreciate your range of videos with all the practical info regarding how they operate. With all the usual DYOR caveats of course. Been a great help for people understanding how to live and work with pacemakers and CRT-D defibrillators. Thanks again.

[@DouglasRachac]

Hi Zapy, Thanks for watching, and for the great comments! I appreciate it! Yes, you are correct in your assessment. There were a number of factors that probably lead to my iPhone 12 test failing. This is what I have come up with: 1) the iPhone 12 I used was in a case. 2) I was wearing a shirt. 3) My ICD is flipped front to back, which puts the magnetic sensor on the back side of the device, and 4) my device is buried under the muscle instead of just under the skin. Those 4 things combined easily accounts for an additional centimeter or more of distance between my device and the iPhone 12 I tested. I'm sure there are other factors that may have played into it as well. Bottom line, though, is if we use the manufacturer's recommendation of keeping 6 inches (15cm) between the phone and our device we won't have any problems. As for battery drain, here are the numbers I learned from a device company Engineer. A device toning "drains" about an hour of device life. A device download (for remote transmission, or in the office) drains about 1 day's worth of battery life, though this drain is figured into the remaining battery life estimate. And a shock (from an ICD) drains about 1 month of battery life. The shocks really hit battery life, but the other 2 are considered "negligible" in the grand scheme of things. When it comes time to replace a device you'll be notified by the device when there's roughly 6 months of battery life left. From there you can discuss with your doctor and decide if you want to get a replacement right away, or wait up to 3 months. In very rare cases they will let you go further, but usually 3 months after that first indication is the limit. So do you really cause an earlier replacement with accidental tones and occasional downloads? Not really. And as battery life gets better and better with each generation the impact on battery life from these instances is less and less. Thanks again for watching. I'm glad to hear my videos were helpful.

[@johnkoksha8263]

Hi Doug, I got my device yesterday. It’s a Boston Scientific. Do you know about these type of devices? Is there anything I need to know about them? Thanks Again for your videos!! John

[@DouglasRachac]

Hi John, welcome, officially, to the club no one really wants to join. I am somewhat familiar with BoSci devices. They are fairly similar to other devices, but please ask away if you have any specific questions. I’ll do what I can to answer them for you. Happy holidays!!

[@johnkoksha8263]

Thanks Doug. Being new to the club, I’ll take you up on that. Happy Holidays !!!

[@hausofvishy8695]

Still on iphone6:) Ihave a new pacemaker with defibrillator . I feel great. Can i still enjoy my edibles or do I switch to cbd? New subscriber here 🌻

[@DouglasRachac]

Great question Vishy. There are some studies out there about how the heart reacts to edibles or CBD, but I am not familiar with the specifics. You'll have to ask your doctor if using those puts you at a higher risk or not. As for the device, quite simply it's looking for fatal rhythms. If it sees one, it will act. It doesn't care what causes the rhythm or what is flowing through your veins. If it sees a shockable rhythm, it will shock. Best of luck, and thanks for subscribing!

[@hausofvishy8695]

@@DouglasRachac Thanks so much!

[@HamanFRD]

Can i use the phone watching youtube while laying on bed on my belly? Or this is so close to the ICD

[@DouglasRachac]

As long as you can keep your phone 6 inches (15 cm) away from your device you will not have a problem. I watch movies on my phone and iPad all of the time.

[@quinnwoodrow8457]

I’m a little late and I have a question I might get a iPhone 12 but my dad has a pace maker should I get it or not

[@DouglasRachac]

Hi Quinn, as long as you keep the iPhone 12 6 inches or more from your dad’s device you won’t have any problem at all. If you do happen to get too close it won’t damage the pacemaker and won’t cause any harm to your dad. Just move the iPhone away from his device and all will be good. Thanks for watching!

[@staf4899]

It won't harm your dad, it will increase the risk of causing harm to your dad. Heard of 'R on T' Doug? I hope you take responsibility when something does happen because people think it's Ok to rub or keep an iPhone 12 close to their chest...

[@DouglasRachac]

@@staf4899 R on T is exceptionally rare and not at all likely to occur, so there’s no need to scare people by bringing it up. Use of a magnet on a pacemaker resulting in asynchronous pacing occurs every day. Pacemakers are designed to react this way on purpose. And no where do I tell people it’s okay to rub a magnet all over your device. In this video I specifically advise people NOT to do that. The fact that the iPhone 12 has a magnet strong enough to interact with devices is not a dangerous life threatening revelation as you would like to believe. It is good knowledge to have, though. Patients should continue to follow the device manufacturer’s recommendations and keep all smart phones at least 6 inches from your device. But, if you happen to slip up and you find your phone closer than that, simply move it. It doesn’t harm your device. It’s really as simple as that. If anyone thinks I am advising they carry their phones in their breast pockets, or rub their iPhone 12 against their device to see what happens they should watch the video again. In no way am I advising that. If you’d like to discuss this in more detail, Staf, I’d be happy to via email. If there are specific changes you’d like to see in the video, please let me know and I will seriously consider them. You can reach me at [e-mail]

[@danielk0106]

Mine vibrated so I guess I'll have to go with an older iPhone or Android

[@DouglasRachac]

You could, or you can keep the iPhone 12 as long as you keep the phone 6 inches from your device, which isn’t too difficult with normal use. You should do whatever makes you most comfortable.

[@teeduck]

My iPhone sticks to my leg due to the metal rod inside my bone

[@hgallegos915]

...

[@staf4899]

This has got to be one of the most irresponsible KZbin videos I've seen for a long time. You stated the reasons why this test failed in your reply to someone in the comments but other people won't have them reasons to rely on and will think this is ok to do? I've reported this video for potentially dangerous and harmful content. Hopefully others will to. You're playing fire with people's lives here. Absolutely ridiculous precedent to set.

[@DouglasRachac]

I’m sorry you feel that way Staf. I also reiterate the medical device company’s recommendations to keep your smart phone at least 6 inches away from your device. This is the same recommendation Apple gives in their updated statement from late January. Yes each patient is different, and others may not have the same results as I did, which is why I stated that others should not replicate this experiment. But one thing is certain; if you follow the device company’s recommendation and keep your smart phone 6 inches from your device you will have absolutely no problems. This also goes for the iPhone 12.