Pagans and Christians: Lecture Thirteen

[@BrotherLaymanPaul]

Thank you for your clear presentations, Fr Dcn Matthew!

[@mauricecalliss1303]

What a metaphors as frogs sit in the marshes and croack

[@agent_meister477]

Very interesting lectures. There is one video that is hidden in this playlist. Is there any chance you could make it available?

[@BurningBushesChannel]

I loved the lecture today! I'm Daniel Neumann

[@mauricecalliss1303]

As far afield as some may say it may be. The lost book of enki absolutely fascinates me .and the enuma elish read by d.w drafern has got a brilliant voice .audio books.

[@mauricecalliss1303]

I'M THINKING IN ALL THE TEXTS THAT HAVE BEEN SURPRESSED OVER TIME AND WHAT TREASURES THEY CLEARLY HOLD.

[@mauricecalliss1303]

I like the astro theology of Jordan maxwel .and the sun worship rooted in beliefs .fascinating

[@mauricecalliss1303]

Good choice aleric .

[@mauricecalliss1303]

The ancient peoples although human seem so much more etherical than today. If thats the word im looking for. The ancient stories seem to tell many aspects as one they definitely are or can be undrstood in many ways moee than one mere story can be. Thete seems to be something within the old texts especially sumerian origin thats infinite in its content and reads more like a part present and future all as one. Something in the way and when a story is told and by whole tells it that gives it body and meaning.

[@drewkoopman5905]

Does the Christian ideology say that no women should speak in church or lead the movement.... Augustus did never push against that idea.

[@matthewadamkeil]

Yes, that is what the Bible teaches. 1 Timothy 2:12-14. Augustine was definitely very traditional when it came to men and women having different roles, as basically all Christians were until very, very recently

[@mauricecalliss1303]

It amazes me how men of such a young age could be in their positions .wow then be pawned off in a game of chess.

[@mauricecalliss1303]

HOW DOES BELIEF MANAGE TO COMAND SO MUCH DEVOTION.??? ANY BELIEF NOT JUST CHRISTIAN. IT'S A UNIVERSAL CONSTANT SO IT SEEMS .MAN IS INESCAPABLE OF IT. TO BE AN ATHEIST ALSO IS A BELIEF .NOW THAT'S A RABBIT HOLE. I UNDERSTAND BELIEFS CONCEPTS ETC BUT HOW IT EXERTS SO MUCH POWER IN MEN'S LIFE IS FAR DEEPER CONCEPT TO INDULGE IN.

[@Jesus_paid_it_all]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. John 3:18 “He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

[@matthewadamkeil]

An interesting collection of Scriptural quotations. I think I understand the general perspective, and if I may, I will offer a few of my own on The necessity of baptism for salvation: John 3:5: "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." The necessity of the Eucharist for salvation: John 6:53: "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." The fact that we are not saved by faith alone: James 2:24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." The fact that we should pray for the dead, as when St. Paul prayed for the soul of Onesiphorus: 2 Timothy 1:18: "The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well." That once you are justified, you can still lose your justification because of grave sin and be blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life, as when Christ says to all twelve of the Apostles, including Judas: Luke 10:20: "Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.” Judas' name was subsequently blotted out, but he was on track to have been "St. Judas." (Cf. Matt. 19:28: "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Notice that this refers to all twelve apostles, including Judas.) The fact that we should bless the Mother of God: Luke 1:48: "for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall bless me." The fact that God will reward each of us according to our works: Rev. 22:12: "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work." Rom. 2:6: "God will render to each one according to his deeds”

[@Jesus_paid_it_all]

@@matthewadamkeil Baptism can't save a soul. Born of water talks about the first birth. John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Baptism is a way to show beilivers you are saved. But you need to be saved before you are baptized. Acts 8:34-39 "And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing." Jesus was using a similitude when he said that man should eat of him to have eternal life. Hosea 12:10 "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets." Jesus Christ later explained what he was saying. Jesus also said that he was a door. Is he really a door? No, but he is the only way to salvation. (Acts 4:12) John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." I am saved by grace. Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." 2 Timothy 1:9 "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began," As for everything else, you are entirely forgetting 2nd Tim. 2:15. 2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." I am very sorry for you. You are so stooped in self righteousness and works that you are blinded to the Word of God. I am afraid Jesus well spake of people like you. Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

[@matthewadamkeil]

@@Jesus_paid_it_all I appreciate your willingness to debate, but let's please refrain from emotional language if we are going to have a mature debate. As to your first point, that being born again by water is a reference to natural birth, well...that's a new one I never heard before. But I don't think that makes much sense. Listen to what it sounds like if you plug it into the verse: "Unless a man be born again of natural birth and the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God." No, rather, it is exactly as St. Paul says in Titus 3:5 when he describes how God saves us through baptism according to God's undeserved mercy: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit" This is clearly a reference to water and the Spirit in Baptism, and this is why St. Peter says "baptism doth also now save us." (1 Peter 3:21), a Scripture that you are directly contradicting with your first comment. As touching upon the Holy Eucharist, it is a false equivalence to say that Christ spoke metaphorically about Himself when He said "I am the door," and therefore He was speaking metaphorically in John 6: 53. This is a false equivalence because of the Last Supper. Christ clearly showed His disciples what He meant when He said they had to eat of Him when He instituted this Sacrament (for instance, Luke 22:19-20), and it forever afterwards formed the center of Christian worship (as shown in Scripture with 1 Corinthians 11, and early Christian writings like the Didache). Also, remember that in John 6, many of those following Jesus were scandalized at this teaching, and many abandoned Him (John 6: 60 "Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?" John 6:66: "From that time many of His disciples went back, and walked no more with Him.") If Christ meant it metaphorically, He would surely have then said, "No, no guys, you got it all wrong. I was just talking metaphorically." But that is not what He says. Rather in the very next verse, "Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?" (John 6:67) Clearly we should take God at His word and not try to make things symbolic when they are not. (Ken Ham taught me that)

[@Jesus_paid_it_all]

@@matthewadamkeil Titus 3:5 fits along with this verse: Ephesians 5:26 “That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,” Also, what about the thief on the cross? He had no time to take the Eucharist, be baptized, work for his salvation, etc.

[@matthewadamkeil]

​@Jesus_paid_it_all Yes, I agree that Titus 3:5 fits in with Ephesians 5:26 because both refer to baptism. The latter verse is speaking in the context of how Christ wedded the Church to Himself, and the reference to the washing of water by the word is a reference to how individuals become members of the Church, through baptism ("by the word" here indicates the Trinitarian formula used for baptism which we read in Matthew, "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."). Clearly, this is the normative way for a person to be saved. It is the way the Lord taught people to be saved, and it is the way the Apostles and their successors teach people to be saved. The good thief is an exception to this, as you point out. In a sense, he is the exception that proves the rule. The Lord is sovereign. He can do what He wills. He is above the rules. We, however, are not. We need to follow them.