Paladins STILL Have This Problem in One D&D 😔

Catch the full Paladin One D&D stream discussion with ‪@JNJTabletop‬ (Jake) and me here: kzbin.info...
Want more Paladin conversation? • How DMs can improve Pa...
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[@JNJTabletop]

It was great to be a guest on this show and I really appreciated chatting about this in particular. At its core, TTRPGs are a communication game. Yes, there are combat mechanics and yes, there are more of those than any other, but you simply need more precision there. Talk to each other and find out what's driving the desire to play a Paladin and then go kick butt in telling great stories about that TOGETHER!

[@FlutesLoot]

It's the reframing we need AND the reframing we deserve

[@dreamwanderer5791]

Howdy Flutes, Paladin main and avid DM here. I asked all my players on it, and they're okay with an understand that if your powers come from elsewhere, they need to keep within the graces of those beings. If they break it, I'll totally let them swap out their subclass (or class if warranted), but regardless of what the text says, if they get a power, it can be taken back. And they....universally prefer having their power tied to a narrative device. Actually why they choose to play those classes more often than not, lol. Just goes to show, the spirit of the class can still live on, just gotta be upfront about it. Cheers to a fellow fan of the classics.

[@FlutesLoot]

Yours is a prime example of what we talked about in the video to make it work for everyone. Also, bless your players for being open to this kind of experience. A PHB should frame oath-breaking and transgression in this way instead of stating it like it's something to enforce later in a campaign without an upfront conversation. Thanks for sharing your experience!

[@dreamwanderer5791]

@@FlutesLoot No problem, it's fun sharing back and forths here. We're the kind of group that puts story first, and make the mechanics work for it. We have fun, and it's great. (Also hopefully I'll have the Strahd update for you tomorrow, but we may need to push it to Sunday. Scheduling lol.)

[@TimothyMReynolds]

Paladins need to be connected to the Divine. It’s literally in the name of 3 of their abilities.

[@FlutesLoot]

I have a hard time wrapping my head around exactly what they are if they're not tied to greater powers. I try, trust me, lol.

[@kwaksea]

I thought, giving 50 cal rifle with horsey was a big problem.... this is even bigger!

[@FlutesLoot]

I certainly think so

[@scottburns4458]

G’day I am old school in that if any divine class brakes their oath, fails to follow their deity tenets or whose alignment moves too far from those allowed by their deity they lose their divine gifts and become fighters until they atone This is explained at session zero Also I encourage players to pick a deity first then they can see what domains, oaths etc are available for them not pick those first and ignore the deity as is the norm today sadly. Anyway that’s my five cents worth Cheers

[@FlutesLoot]

This should become the standard for these classes that gain power from another source of sentience.

[@scottburns4458]

@@FlutesLoot You would think so but modern games and their audience shy away from imposing restrictions because they don’t see the RP value they can provide.

[@dungeonsanddronesrpgroup]

As a long time D&D fan, player and DM (since 1984) I think the rule system went from erratic and imbalanced (AD&D) to complex and crunchy (3rd) to streamlined but too narrow in focus (4th edition) to now being very open and interpretive. Meaning, in 5th edition, there is simply a lot of gaps that the DM needs to fill in. Even as a long time DM, I don't want to be making ruling outside of what is written that harm my players. Having specific guidelines in print is a good "out" for the DM to maintain friendship with their players while still severely punishing them for misplaying their character.

[@FlutesLoot]

I don't want the DM to ever have to punish a player. It should be fun.

[@ericpeterson8732]

Yes, this is junk held over from previous editions and I like that. I like that Druids don't wear metal armor. I wish there was mechanical penalties for doing so. We've allowed our game to be consumed by optimization and power gaming. 3 or 4 multiclasses to get just the right blend of abilities to make us feel powerful. That is why I am so adamant about the idiosyncrasies of the individual classes. Otherwise you start to move to a classless system like the Elder Scrolls and Skyrim, where they did away with classes altogether. No more Nightblades or Pilgrims or Battlemages. It's liberating, but at the same time, it's formless. Each class is a different playstyle and if you take levels in a particular class, it should be to become that kind of character. So even if you're multiclassing into paladin, you should be wanting to live by an oath. Even if you were a rogue before or a sorcerer or a barbarian, becoming a paladin should require some devotion to that oath. Just like becoming a cleric or warlock should require allegiance to the entity that empowers you. I do agree that this can done by just having a conversation with the player in order to lay out how this all works. (Much the same as the others here have stated) But I will always argue to maintain the identity of each class through whatever idiosyncrasies they may have, dumb as they might seem. A wizard has to write his spells down in a "spellbook". A cleric needs to be tight with their deity. A warlock needs to uphold their pact. A druid needs to wear non-metal armor and be in touch with Nature. Multiclassing doesn't eliminate these conditions, it just highlights them.

[@BK-qe9gq]

I like the idea of being a Paladin or Priest being beholden to a god or force and to me it has always made sense that if you are making a Paladin Oath It is likely being enforced by some greater power be it a god or perhaps a great spirit so long as it is divine on some level, I personally think only a Warlock can get away with having their pact be a bit murkier. This is because where as a Paladin or Cleric is actively devoting themselves to something, with a Warlock it makes sense to me that their pact with an otherworldly power could be an unknowing one, at least at the start of the campaign, like they suddenly get connected to a great old one through an unsettling dream and next thing they know they wake up accidentally casting a spell or with tentacles on their face wondering what the heck is going on. Then later on in the campaign the DM rolls dice every time the Warlock goes to sleep and on say a 20 the old one notices them, brings the warlock’s dreaming mind forth and the details of the pact gets fully clarified then and there and NOW the Warlock has things he NEEDS to do or else unpleasant things will happen. Same deal could occur with any of the patrons just gone about a bit differently. Heck one of the things you could do for a fiend patron is just pay Mammon a huge sum of money (no silver though no fiend likes being paid in stingers) for powers and that’s it transaction done. Go do whatever you want Mammon got his money and he can squash you if he has to, he does not care otherwise.

[@FlutesLoot]

Similar thoughts from me!