Panasonic GH7 vs S9 - Did LUMIX drop the ball?

Just a rant about the LUMIX S9 and Panasonic GH7. What do you think?

[@sloppysteaks]

Biggest head scratcher of the year. 100% should have been the GH7.

[@davidaltizer]

Imagine all the glorious Japan Arri LogC anamorphic footage that would have been shot

[@vlcheish]

S9 was Panasonic attempting to capture the money printer that is Fujifilm X100 and Ricoh GR style cameras. It made sense Panasonic spending the money on marketing flying people to Japan based on what they thought they were going to achieve with that(they assumed they were going to get a ton of positive feedback for a compact FF camera). They had plenty of non-pro video centric channels there. Tech Chap has 1.46 million subs, Manny Ortiz, Kai W, Julia Trotti, The Slanted Lens were all there. GH7 announcement was aimed at going after Canon cinema announcement buzz and it made more sense as they had the camera already out and reviewed to a ton of KZbinrs. Canon is such a massive machine that you want to piggyback off of that audience.

[@davidaltizer]

Fair. But why invite the filmmakers at all then? Or maybe they were planning on releasing both?

[@MrJed_s]

Such a weird camera to try and capture market share from X100 and Ricoh GR. Way bigger than a GR, no EVF like the X100, and no shutter, no small (useful) lenses. Considering that they've already discontinued cameras that could have competed directly with the GR (GM1) and X100 (GX9) it makes the S9 a really confusing release.

[@davidaltizer]

If they made a fixed lens micro 4/3 camera with EVF and all these LUT features that would have been the solution to the X100 IMO

[@j_cooks]

I dont know... I have heard of people asking LUMIX for a full-frame compact camera.

[@j_cooks]

@@davidaltizer I think a few of the guys who went to Japan have done reviews on x100 cameras in the past. I'd assume Cam has had a decent impact on Fujis x100 sales over the years.

[@oregonduc]

It’s crazy that they were filming commercials for the GH7 while all those people were there for the S9 lol.

[@markwiemels]

Your opening line! That’s exactly what I said when I saw the specs today. I think you are right on the money.

[@davidaltizer]

It seems like a killer camera! Maybe they could have announced both at the same time? Or at least given us a heads up about it. Idk. Just a weird situation altogether

[@suyogmarlecha4466]

The GH7 should have been launched at that time with all the filmmakers called upon in Japan. And the S9 should have been given to iPhone reviewers and short form creators to have fun with. It would have made a bigger impact.

[@davidaltizer]

i agree. imagine GH7 with alexa logc, 32bit float, 5.6k in japan on anamorphic glass

[@telford2155]

people really are throwing the term filmmakers around too much. these people mentioned review gear like the S9 so why is it now a problem?

[@suyogmarlecha4466]

@@telford2155 Because they are not the target audience as per Lumix

[@suyogmarlecha4466]

@@telford2155 Due to the target audience that Lumix set.

[@davidaltizer]

My apologies to Kofi Yeboah for mispronouncing his name! Also, for the record, I totally get the S9 and enjoy using it. If LUMIX makes a bunch of tiny compact full frame autofocus lenses, this camera will feel more complete and I would find myself using it. I think we're a bit early for this camera. The price needs to come down, and it desperately needs compact autofocus lenses. That being said, the GH7 would have been so amazing to play with in Japan. ProRes Raw internal, Arri LogC3 support, best in class autofocus and ibis... would be nuts. Hopefully I can get my hands on the GH7 soon and do some tests.

[@jimgiraffe5253]

the backlash wasnt totally about the camera. its has a spec issue , thats for sure. the issue was all these youtubers who sold out , shilled hard and avoided the spec issues. the same people who talk about rolling shutter, etc , just went with the the official message " its fun" infact it was so much fun that the specs didnt matter and this is where they fell foul of their audiences. blowing smoke up your viewers butts is very very not cool... the audiences noticed the sellout, the shilling and its now a zero trust game.

[@davidaltizer]

@@jimgiraffe5253 so strange. don't see it that way. it is just a camera. sharing our thoughts on the camera. it's fun. look at any Leica M review. that's the sentiment there too. they are fun overpriced cameras. that's what this is too. it's fun... and has lots of weird limitations, but is also really cool too

[@jimgiraffe5253]

@@davidaltizer if you dont see it that way then thats cool. This is why there is a disconnect . You dont see things from your audiences perspective. We realised that youtubers larping as filmmakers who just make adverts for gear companies is not really a filmmaker. a dude with a camera is not a videographer, no matter what way you want to dress it up. None of you make films, none of you make documentaries. You just make adverts. "creatives""influencers""filmmakers" lol when at the end of the day you are all work from home sales people. as i said , its now a zero trust game.

[@assburgers3457]

My ass thought for the first 30s that was an AirPods case connected to the shoe 💀

[@TheFilmmakersWorkshop]

Some very insightful points about the S9 release. I was so surprised to watch the GH7 release and straight after see Gerald’s review. More so to hear him reconsider his position on the GH6.

[@davidaltizer]

At least we can probably assume that he's being honest! I trust that he is

[@TheFilmmakersWorkshop]

@@davidaltizer I don’t doubt his integrity for a second- I think Gerald did review the GH6 at a bad time for him and so many other camera releases at the time overshadowed the compact and full featured GH6 and then with the sensor streaking thing it seemed to become stigmatised and cast away. Now, it’s back albeit with a new sensor and 15 % more impressive bells and whistles. It’s a good time to re look at the GH6 IMHO. Appreciate your video and thoughts

[@Manifestanjalisoni1111]

Please guide me which camera best for KZbin video ♥️ and what camera use you this video

[@davidaltizer]

I filmed this video on the Lumix S5ii! I would highly recommend that camera as a great starting point. The Lumix S9 is also great, but has a recording limit so make sure you’re aware it cuts off after 15 minutes. You can then hit record immediately and then it will work.

[@markshirley01]

Im a graphic designer who shoots vertical 100fps 1080p for social media only (no YT). The main things that interest me on the GH7 are the stabilisation and the internal 32 bit float. I currently use a A7R5 for both video and photo. I'm now looking at the GH7 or G9 MK2. I hate gimbals so the stabilisation is the big thing.

[@davidaltizer]

For sure! Yeah, it seems really compelling. Kind of has everything you'd need as a pro content creator

[@andreasbulowhansen9413]

But Lumix wanted to drive KZbinrs towards L mount, not MFT. They release the GH7 for the ppl who are still on MFT because there is still an audience there. But that audience is not growing.

[@davidaltizer]

Fair enough, but maybe they shouldn't have brought the filmmaking audience creators to that event and focused on the KZbinr influencers types

[@ReachFilms]

I agree Dave, I think the response would have been different if it was the GH7 in Japan

[@mr.s4849]

You're right - they definitely shouldn't have involved the hardcore/professional LUMIX peeps to the S9 launch, especially in Japan.

[@davidaltizer]

At least both cameras available.

[@matttheking1655]

I remember you said that, in the Bradon Washington podcast a few weeks ago that the trip in Japan was for a different camera, i guess you were right, i was supposed to be the GH7, your theory was spot on... now the that the GH7 has released just 2 weeks after the S9 🤔👍

[@TheRealRichardWong]

David, no, GH7 was NOT the camera that was supposed to be announced in Osaka to us. The summit was planned for the S9 and S9 only. That's why Lumix invited a lot of tiktok-er, instagram-er, non photographer/videographers to Osaka for this summit which matches their target audience.

[@davidaltizer]

Who were the tiktokers and instagram-ers? I guess I don’t know them but I mostly saw the filmmaking camera review crowd

[@TheRealRichardWong]

@@davidaltizer Hey David, I was told that about half the guest are non traditional reviewer/photographer/filmmaker, i.e. tiktoker, instagramer..etc :) Quite a few Australia and New Zealand guests fall into that category, for example, one of the lady is a travel blogger sharing travel tips. To be honest I don’t know pretty much any of them. But at the event, when I talked to some of the guest I have never seen before, I was surprised that a lot of them have hundreds of thousands of followers on those platforms and they make various kinds of short videos or photos. Lumix still invited a lot of us reviewers/filmmakers..etc because it is still a Lumix camera event. But the demographics of guests are so different this time compared to the Tokyo summit. And probably because of that, the contents of the conference was also quite different with very minimal tech details.

[@palaneproductions7357]

My feelings are the GH7 is only an upgrade to an existing line.As good as it is, it didnt need the "CELEBRATION" event that a new model like the S9 needed....So thats the reason for the EVENT in Japan.Gerald Unfortunate was sent the GH7 but wasn't required in Japan.Only the important people got the invite...Both cameras are brilliant "for their capabilities" for some people...I agree 1299 will be the price(or less) in the Christmas sales....The LUT MONSTER has arrived!

[@Stone1108]

I kinda get what you’re saying but wasn’t the GH7 allocated a to creators a couple of weeks ago for their stealth prelaunch reviews? Just askin, cos that may have been their strategy 🤷🏻‍♂️. They’ve always been a bit quirky, it’s one reason why I use their cameras, full of surprises with best intentions. 😂

[@davidaltizer]

well yeah they had a strategy of some sort with it but i’m pretty sure japan was supposed to be the initial release location

[@ricohflex777]

The reason you are looking for is : S9 is Full Frame and is the beginning of the future growth path for Panasonic Lumix. Whereas the GH7 is the old obsolete Micro Four Thirds sensor format that is dying/has died. The GH7 is a last hurrah for a dying series that will inevitably be abandoned. GH7 appeals to die hard fans with sunken costs (too heavily invested in the MFT system). The analogy is they dropped into a deep MFT hole that they cannot crawl out of. Those are a dying breed. The future lies with NEW buyers of Full Frame cameras - that is why the S9.

[@PPLRRN]

I'm tired of APSC and MFT. The S9 is testament that Full Frame can go smaller. Now the next iterations would just focus on adding smaller components and deal with heat management

[@davidaltizer]

hoping they make some tiny full frame lenses

[@mipmipmipmipmip]

Nah it's better that Gerald angry toddler Undone got upset at the S9 than at the GH7. Full frame will sell anyway. GH7 needs support from the old school users

[@blackshadow604]

I don’t know what Panasonic hat in mind with the S9, but it isn’t a joke! I think the S9 is what it is for some reasons: 1. small 2. ff 3. big batterie. And so it has no evf, no mechanical shutter, no flash… But I think the S9 is very interesting with the features that it has. I’m taking a long time photos only using a monitor. And we all are using our smartphones. I personally like a small, lightweight ff camera with the right lenses (f.e. Sigma 45mm & 90mm, Pana 18-40mm) very much!

[@davidaltizer]

Yeah totally agree... it's not a joke at all. I like mine, but find myself using the S5 II more because I prefer an EVF and the handling (but that's not the point of the S9) I think if LUMIX made some super compact primes, I would find myself using it constantly. Like a little 28mm f2 lens or something.... would be incredible.

[@JeffBourke]

I think that they did but the cams had different embargo dates.

[@davidaltizer]

I was there. They didn't mention GH7 at all and we were only given the S9

[@SharrodVisuals]

I’m so glad I sold my lumix gear and went Sony. Loving my fx30

[@davidaltizer]

That's awesome dude! Enjoy! Great camera.

[@nolannatashaTV]

I sort of think you’re right. My selfish wish as a G9ii shooter is that they released a compact MFT instead of S9, THEN the new flag ship full frame, then GH7, then S9

[@davidaltizer]

I know. Maybe they will put a micro 4/3 sensor in the S9 body at some point!

[@Tigerex966]

Both are awesome. Dymamic duo

[@davidaltizer]

100%

[@oregonduc]

The difference between some of the other CC’s vs you David is that you are more upfront and transparent and try to bridge features to who it is made for. Your Christian background helps keep you grounded in my opinion. You aren’t lashing out at the audience even if the audience can be wrong or rude.

[@davidaltizer]

Thanks bro. Just trying to be honest! I enjoy tech and cameras! Just sharing my thoughts.

[@oregonduc]

@@davidaltizer I think LUMIX couldn’t get the firmware or maybe the Nikon/Red legal deal signed off to have the announcement of internal raw recording in time for you folks arriving in Japan. That’s why I believe your theory on that another camera was supposed to have been highlighted at the event is plausible since they were also filming commercials for GH7 while you were there. I saw the footage with the black tape on the camera lol. Also I think lumix messed up by not having a bunch of primes ready for the S9 like how they did for the S5II. Poorly executed marketing launch and missed opportunities.

[@TristanLaughton]

GH7 is a great M43 camera. Now we just gotta hope that all these features trickle down to the S1HII...

[@davidaltizer]

100%

[@cornellouis]

I don't think it's $200 less. Isn't the S5ii bundle w/ the 50mm lens $1850 which is the same as $1500 S9 + $350 50mm ?

[@davidaltizer]

S5II on B&H in America right now is $1797. Very close

[@Tigerex966]

S9 will also get bundle prices.

[@cornellouis]

@@Tigerex966 Sure, and in 10 years it'll be $200. Are we reviewing cameras based on that?

[@GrenlandUnderVann]

So the GH7 was not mentioned in Japan? It must have been shipped out as soon as people returned back home from Japan. Very strange.

[@davidaltizer]

They didn’t announce or mention it at all in Japan publicly. And it wasn’t mentioned directly to me at all

[@quentin6233]

There were a few youtubers who have footage of the GH7 while in Japan so some got theirs when they were there. The announcement of the S9 was appropriately done first. If anything they are trying to capture the social media market while dumping the rest of the S5ii/S5iiX sensors into the S9 as they prepare to upgrade the sensor. There are strong rumors of a high megapixel camera coming before the endoplasmic of the year. Lumix has always been more video centric so it's no surprise they invited certain people to review a photogenic camera. They have been inviting Julia Trotti a lot lately and they invited Manny Ortiz to the S9 event. Those two are portrait photographers who usually only use video for b-roll. That's a clear indication they are trying to up their photography.

[@GrenlandUnderVann]

@@quentin6233 Interesting to know.

[@DaftRebel]

Sometimes I remember about the Indie Mogul times and come back here seeking some kind of closure LOL :(

[@davidaltizer]

maybe I should finally make that for you lol

[@DaftRebel]

@@davidaltizer that'd be so kind for all the old fans!

[@GeekyNerdyTechy]

Valid points man! Nice stuff.

[@davidaltizer]

just a quick rant! gh7 looks great

[@GeekyNerdyTechy]

You might be right about the camera switch at the event. I saw in the comment section already people though they might have originally planned it for the GH7, but swapped it last minute for some reason. 🤷🏻‍♂

[@kentmemories]

Lumix can save $$$$ and professional video makers can save time by NOT organizing large event for beginner camera in Japan. GH7 footage from filmmakers (not reviewers) are insane.

[@VistarCreative]

I couldn’t possibly agree with you more.

[@davidaltizer]

Now that the drama is over, what do you actually think of the cameras?

[@VistarCreative]

@@davidaltizer I bought the GH6 and although I really have enjoyed it, I’m extremely disappointed and feel used by Panasonic. I’m not even sure why they released this camera with the phase detect auto focus coming out shortly after. I’ve moved on to full frame Panasonic and I absolutely love the S5ii but I have a ton of micro 4/3 lenses and will strongly consider the GH7. i’m not sure there is anything I was hoping for that it doesn’t have except battery life. 😂

[@VistarCreative]

@@davidaltizer by the way, I have no interest in the S9. I’m a dad but it’s just not for me. Lol.

[@kennyadvocat]

They need to make a decent small M43 body for video. GH7 looks amazing but i bet it's heavy for the everyday traveler.

[@davidaltizer]

sure, but filmmakers don’t care. it’s a solid all around body

[@MatthewDangyou]

Even though I personally would have made on the S9 regardless of Japan, how many people do you think would make a video on the S9 if they just received it without using it how it was designed. Versus the GH7 most filmmaker KZbinrs would make a video on that camera regardless because it is a powerhouse 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@davidaltizer]

For sure. Which is why I ultimately feel like it was supposed to be the GH7 at the event not the S9 😂

[@chcomes]

YMMV, I will not miss the EVF. But let us see how it feels. For me this will be the "camera I am not ashamed to bring"

[@dccoletrain]

Think you’re right. The GH7 maybe the perfect B cam. Your shooting on the C70 still

[@davidaltizer]

yeah for sure!

[@jaymills1720]

Yes they should definitely have released a MFT camera with a smaller lens and bigger body than the S5II for more money 😝

[@davidaltizer]

WITH Alexa Log C support and ProRes raw internal recording and a fan :)

[@jaymills1720]

@@davidaltizer what will the Alexa log do for you? So far I’ve seen no appreciable benefit over vlog

[@mikeeeeyway]

I think is because of the sensor size

[@mrdamiansingh]

Tufi? Kofi that’s my Canadian brother and inspirational homie

[@cineffect]

I see it differently, I would have loved a MFT camera in that small body of S9 and I am sure FF fans would have loved the larger body of GH7 with all the features. 🤷

[@DenBlendaman]

Probably the level of criticism would have been the same. I mean, "no cooling full frame for cheaper then S5M2" vs "MFT for price EQUAL to S5M2" - are both very juicy hooks for trolls and haters alike.

[@Democratiser]

Agreed

[@madedigital]

you take the big fullframe lens off and say look how small it is .....keep the lens on what is it now BIG? that lens is like a 200-800mm in MFT the S9 is a fail. but your right they got the launch mixed up...but it just a GH6 2.0

[@davidaltizer]

im hoping lumix makes some tiny little pancake primes soon

[@orinorio1]

The S9 is for those who just take pictures and short videos. A every day camera you take with you if your just shooting things for a youtube channel. The GH7 is for big projects such as weddings ,client jobs. Anyone who buys the GH7 just for wanting to do KZbin videos will be wasting what the camera has spec wise,

[@davidaltizer]

exactly

[@orinorio1]

@@davidaltizer the S9 is future of being able to link it to your phone using Lumix Lab to edit on the go is masterful. I'm sure they will probably link it so you can use a good editing app to edit short vidoes too

[@richcruz17]

I disagree with this take. The future success of the S9 needs the conversation generated by that event. I actually think the marketing was a great success and a lot of people are excited to get their hands on one. GH7 will succeed with the whole GH M43 community.

[@davidaltizer]

Not saying the S9 is a failure or the event in general wasn't needed. Maybe don't invite the filmmakers to that. Only the influencer vloggy types.

[@j_cooks]

I get what you are saying but thinking from a business standpoint, the GH series has had its cult-like following for a long while. People were on standby waiting for the GH7 regardless of who went on the trip from Japan. The GH series is still for a small segment that they have always had. I think they felt like the S9 could capture a crowd they hadn't had, and KZbin influencers could assist in getting x100 types to take note.

[@davidaltizer]

For sure. Maybe they invited the wrong people then to see the S9.

[@j_cooks]

@@davidaltizer Hey, considering all the noise that was made about the S9 after the event, maybe they invited the right people.😂

[@quintessentialgrooming5285]

With those specs, it's more expensive but less impressive than the Canon R8. Sony ZVE10 is a better option, in my opinion.

[@randomstuffman01]

S9 is a hard sell. So it makes sense that Panasonic would push S9 hard. GH7 is a given attention-getter. GH7 doesn't need the same push that S9 needs. I use Pan m43. S9 needs mechanical shutter and hot shoe, for flash and rolling shutter. Thanks. toronto canada.

[@davidaltizer]

Maybe it shouldn't have been JUST one or the other, but both? Like they gave us both in Japan? IDK

[@michelecintramika8482]

The S9 is for those who only use cell phones and want better quality. They just made a mistake in not having good attempts ready for the event.

[@dvdaltizer]

Sorry Kofi. 😂

[@natureredux1957]

All those ranting aren't the TARGET Market so they need not Apply.

[@davidaltizer]

indeed

[@noheadlights]

The "filmmaker community on KZbin" wasn't invited to Japan. They invited specifically those people that review cameras for living but do not make films with it.

[@davidaltizer]

Sure, but the audiences of those people are mostly "filmmakers" Who actually is a filmmaker? Someone who makes films. Like real features. They aren't on KZbin. Very few. Being a "KZbinr" is a full-time job.

[@noheadlights]

You are right, I probably phrased that in a stupid way. I don’t think the outcry on KZbin was primarily about the S9 itself. It was at least in part about the reviews being so positive for it being a kind of „crippled“ camera. And it was of course fed by Gerald’s video. Maybe they should not have invited the typical camera reviewers and more of the new tiktoker crowd instead. Their audience seems to be the target market anyway. They don’t have any experience reviewing a camera, though. It’s a tough spot to be in. For me this is all just a hobby and I don’t really care too much. I like the S9 and I think about ordering one when prices drop a bit.

[@quentin6233]

I'm 100% disagree. The GH7 is nearly identical to the GH6 in terms of what type of content you can create, so inviting creators to review a camera in Japan that has essentially already been done in Japan with the S5ii/S5iiX and with the GH6 already being out would make very lottle sense. If I'm in marketing It would be redundant to invite creators to Japan again to do similar content. Let's be honest the backlash came after Gerald's video and that's it! If he hadn't come out with that video then there wouldn't have been any backlash. There was nothing Panasonic did that was any different than what other camera and tech companies have done to warrant backlash. Lumix has a history of doing big invites when they feel they're doing something new or innovative in their cameras. Autofocus isn't new but was groundbreaking for them, so invites were sent. The Gh6 was supposed to be at the headquarters, but we were coming off of covid, so restrictions were still in place. The GH7 is a camera I'm going to pick up, but it isn't groundbreaking becausethe gh6 was already made, so there was no need for invites. The S9 is something new and is more of a walkaround camera, so it made perfect sense from a marketing standpoint for invites.

[@davidaltizer]

I was experiencing backlash long before his rant. It was a massive backlash on the filmmaker youtuber channels.

[@quentin6233]

@Yaperture I think the camera space is weird in general sometimes. I saw a video by a Sony user who completely bashed the S5ii when it came out even though he never used it simply because be said former GH4 users used to make fun of him back in the day. I honestly think he made the story up, but it's just a bunch of lunatics out there who use any comment section as their opportunity to rant about any and everything.

[@lionheart4424]

The S9 had a mixed reception for what it is. $1.5k USD for a body with no EVF, no mechanical shutter and they release an f/8 lens as a kit. If it was closer to the $1.k mark in price it would be much more attractive. Also Gerald's video was about the reviewers and how the camera companies have this trend of paying trips for KZbinrs in order to hype their new and overpriced gear. Fujifilm did something similar with the X-T50. Gerald's video is totally relevant and was not about what the S9 is.

[@_ac_7649]

i bought the gh6 too soon :(

[@davidaltizer]

Still a great camera!

[@petercofrancesco9812]

Panasonic has made so many missteps. If their marketing department did a survey and discovered people favorite meal was steak and their favorite desert was chocolate they would try to combine them into a chocolate steak smoothy. They're f-ing idiots. They were so heavy handed with that awful s9 release. Anyone with half a brain could tell it was too expensive for vloggers and too terrible that no pro would want it. It had a fixed aperture f/9 pancake manual focus lens for novices! And it over heated before you could do anything that a professional job would require. All the while releasing the superior GH7 with zero fan fare. You just can't make this up. 🤣

[@trulsdirio]

The Japan event was just a desperate (and sadly semi successful) ploy to make reviewers feel less bad about the abysmal product. The GH7 is an awesome camera, that does not need this deception tactics and thus they did not do it.

[@davidaltizer]

That doesn’t really make sense when you think about it. Imagine how cinematic and awesome everything would have been if it was shot on the GH7 in Japan by those filmmakers.

[@cornellouis]

The GH7 isn't what people wanted with a compact camera. It is bigger and heavier than the S5ii. I think it's a great camera, but Lumix advertises the S9 w/ this horrible plastic lens to make it look like The X100vi... but then you get into the details and you see it's a joke in that configuration.

[@davidaltizer]

The GH7 isn’t supposed to be compact though

[@cornellouis]

@@davidaltizer I was responding to ”everything the complainers would’ve loved “ - I guess it depends on if the complainers wanted an x100v rival or if they only want cameras with more features? If that’s the frame then the gh7 and the s9 both fail at being compact. That f8 pancake is a really cringey marketing gimmick. If they’d released an s9 body with m43 sensor and a pancake autofocus f2 lens, they’d be in the ballpark. Especially at a lower price point, with an evf. I won’t even require a mechanical shutter or hot shoe. But they didn’t… instead we get this awkward camera that you have to embiggen with a 50g grip and use full frame lenses for the same cost as the s5ii bundle.

[@MrJed_s]

@@cornellouis they don't even need to release an f/2 pancake for M43 since there is already the 20mm f/1.7 and the 14mm f/2.5 for ultimate compactness.

[@harryvlogs7833]

Nah the s9 is great

[@davidaltizer]

I'm not saying it isn't good! I like the thing! Mention it in the video. I am just talking about the marketing of it all and how the perception was received.