Pantheon - The Hardcore Vs Casual Debate

[@Eden0nEarth]

hope they keep it hardcore, immersive and adventure themed.

[@EQOAnostalgia]

Amen

[@RandomHero374]

Before even watching, casuals will always out rule the hardcores. They change games for the worse and I'm tired of it.

[@EQOAnostalgia]

It's true. Once LazyPeon made his video upset over the death penalty i was thinking "hope they don't go changing for the casuals" lol.

[@Dre_Santi]

"The kind of person that has 6 plus hours to dedicate in one sitting shouldnt be who were catering to" Your commentary on this is exactly how i feel man, casuals usually bounce off games after a few months while hardcore players stick around for years... if its good.

[@EQOAnostalgia]

It's true. They come in like a tide and go out like one. Oldschool fans are usually older, more established in life, know what they want and pay for it consistently. That's not to say everyone is like that, but i think it's safe to say most of us are. Not only that, with the success of Souls like games there can be a very respectable market for more hardcore MMO's. You don't even have to stray out of the MMO genre to see that HC Mode is the new hotness.

[@Theldren84]

I think the issue with the torch situation lies with the dedicated light source Slot on the character sheet being added. EQ never had this dedicated slot for light until way later. You had to hold the torch to get light. That being said if you had a candle or a lantern, or if you were high enough to acquire a Lightstone (greater etc.), you could place that item in your main inventory (not inside a bag) and it would give off light. If the devs traded the dedicated light slot and had it transition over to a main inventory slot instead this may appease both sides (unlikely but you never know). This wouldn't necessary apply to all light sources either. Torches had to be held to give off light, just how it was. Instead let the acquisition of a "Lightstone" type source be the reward. You have to play around the night time while you are a young adventurer, until you got to that higher lvl and light source dropped. Now you dont have a hold a torch and can utilize both hands at night. I remember playing a barbarian and adventuring into Everfrost at night (thats dark), I had to hold a lightsource with one hand and melee with my main. A higher lvl player came by and gave me a lightstone, which made a world of difference. Now I was able to duel wield or hold a shield. It's these little things that add to a great experience within the world imo. You struggled as a youngling and with each battle and level you felt stronger.

[@EQOAnostalgia]

Yeah lightstones and such should give off less light, torches and lighting spells should give off medium light, and races that see in the dark should be able to see for dozens of yards out or more like daytime but with a different tint. Torch should be the early game, lanterns and lightstone type items should as well aside from really weak ones maybe that don't last as long. This still keeps the priority on races that can see well and gain access to light spells earlier.

[@UFO-zi2bp]

The more the game updates the more it doesnt know what it wants to be. The torch slot is a small but telling example of the direction it may be going. How is the UI still so bad? Most of the time I forget I'm in a fantasy game.

[@scubanc73]

It's tough for developer's because at the end of the day, the more people that try your game, the more money you can make. If you cater to only one type of player, then you alienate another. Not many ways you could address the issue other than having different servers for different playstyles. Dedicated PVP, Hardcore, SoloSelfFound, EZMode, NormalMode, etc.... could be even more costly for extra servers but you cater to more and everyone can choose their experience. Meriad of ways they could do it but low funding and staffing is difficult for a game like this with so much potential.

[@EQOAnostalgia]

I think having multiple servers with different rules does a couple of negative things. First it costs money and time that could go towards a unified vision, and it splits the community up. It's hard enough to try and balance PvE and PvP, WoW taught me that lesson when my characters got nerfed constantly for a mode i barely engaged in after The Burning Crusade. I think if you set out to do something "Not all things to all people" you should stick to your guns. But i would hazard to say 99% of the time, that changed mid development or in later expansions.

[@laranmithras7496]

Pantheon didn't sit right with me when I tried it the day open beta released. Very unpopular at the time and I was trashed for my observation. shrug I'm sure it appeals to some - and good for them. We should play what makes us excited.

[@Tinfoiledhat]

Have you tried it lately? It's pretty good actually and I trashed it at first lol

[@GC_Rallo]

I'm playing it, having fun. Been disappointed by quite a few things, DL especially has been one disappointment after the other despite being fun to play.(just got let down by them changing the class pretty greatly from SK, which was what I was wanting to play)

[@Tinfoiledhat]

​@@GC_RalloI'm just playing Pantheon until Monsters and Memories launches 😂 one more year

[@nikolasweischner3560]

Any criticism people have of the game they shrug off as you not being ''hardcore'' and then tell you to play something else. It's kinda pathetic. The game has serious problems lol

[@GC_Rallo]

I don't think them being unable to secure funding was brought on by Pantheon being "too oldschool" or some shit, I think it was brought on by people not trusting VR to deliver based on their performance history. It wasn't good. Very little of what they've tried to do has gone over without issue, or wild delays. I'm playing Pantheon and having fun, but there's so much about it that I wish was different and more in-line with the original vision, I just don't think they are capable of delivering that experience. If you look at the promotional/concept art of Pantheon during those early years of development, before McQuaid passed, THAT game looked incredible. I've tried getting over the artstyle, and sometimes I do for a while, but visuals are a big part of *video* games and I really am not a fan of these visuals. Spell fx and world look great, it's the character models, the gear, everyone looks like a homeless person, the Ogres look like weird bug people, ugh, it's not great. It's not the FIDELITY or graphics quality that I'm talking about, it's the aesthetic and art *style*, I don't think going for a more high-fantasy artstyle would have taken more time like they said, nobody expected photorealism, we just wanted a classic, high-fantasy artstyle Maybe one day we'll have a TRUE EQ successor. Maybe one day..... I'll keep playing and supporting as long as it's fun, but overall my hopes are now in Monsters & Memories. They really should think about rebranding though cause that name is trash

[@EQOAnostalgia]

You would likely enjoy Monsters & Memories a lot more. They are going for that EQ vibe Pantheon originally set out to achieve. It's a more hardcore game and the devs seem unflinchingly dedicated to making it stay that way. They've even resisted my complaints about dropping your spellbook on death lol.

[@F4ILS4FE_GAMING]

I agree completely. Darkness, no Maps, hefty death penalty and I'll take it a bit further - real time travel. I don't like instant travel being a thing. It destroys adventure when you can portal everywhere. Back when EQ first launched starting an Ogre and making the journey to Qeynos was quite the adventure and slumming it under the city until you could earn your way in by building reputation. Or traveling from Qeynos to Freeport, going through the plains with deadly lions/Giants and through the Gnoll controlled mountain pass was a great feeling. Where the race you chose meant a great separation in the starting point. So if you wanted to be an Ogre Death Knight, or Warrior it meant you had a long journey if your friends were humans. You'd be a rarer sight and occurrence around human cities because of the reputation you had being KOS and having to build reputation. Kind of like you mentioned with that feeling you get when you've gone further then you've ever been and you don't know what to expect. Where death might be waiting just around the corner. I almost think the Xp loss on death is going too easy. If they made permadeath a thing but Resurrection works from Healer classes that would be intense. They could do something like Ultima Online with upon death you are in ghost form and only those attuned to ghosts can see you and they still need to be trained in ghost speak can understand what you're even saying. Maybe put a timer on how long you can be dead before you're gone for good, say 24 hours. Make healer classes important again. Rather than Resurrection just being a corpse walk time saver or xp saver. The no maps made it important for groups and people exploring dangerous and confusing areas to pay attention. To remember what direction you went at that last crossroad. To not just go blundering about not paying attention or you'll end up somewhere you don't want to be.

[@F4ILS4FE_GAMING]

BTW I'm still on the fence about buying Pantheon. I'm waiting a little to see how it evolves. If it starts old school and morphs into a modern mmo I'll pass on it. Which it seems it might for more sales.

[@EQOAnostalgia]

That sounds a little too hardcore for me lol, but i like the idea of being a ghost that say, only healers can see. They would identify that you need their assistance immediately that's for sure lol. "oh sht here comes another one... look afk, look afk..."

[@Natepwnsu]

Bro login to EverQuest right now. And take off your helmet. 😊 Whatever item has faerun on it click on your buffs off, and make sure you're not an iksar, it's still fucking pitch black at night time.

[@EQOAnostalgia]

That may very well be, i didn't play EQ very much, but most people won't intentionally nerf their night time vision. I will, because i'm crazy like that lol. But imo it should be a forced mechanic. If you give people the option to render it moot then, why even bother?

[@mattstansbeary3068]

The issue is you never did the Wild woods where the Elves start to Thorn or you go I need to turn around I'm going far away from where I started. I did it 3 times & every time I knew Death was going to happen & each time Welcoming it but never turning Back if you call that Casual I feel sorry for you I even did 1 trip when I de-leveled from level 5 to level 4. You well you need to get into the Fantasy of the Game because it should scare you away from making the Trip. Why I seen you cry more then me on anything to do with this Game. You: Oh my God they change the torch place to Me: So what I'm not crying over it. The way it seems is Crying= Hardcore & Casual means Give me Death, De-level my character & you think Your going to stop me Sorry your Not A Map would be Great but I know the way thanks.

[@EQOAnostalgia]

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Maybe you watched a different video idk.