Why I Prime Models in Red

[@KristovMars]

Is there a specific (commonly accepted) name for this technique/effect? I just re-watched this video whilst playing with a colour-wheel in the hopes I could reverse-engineer or decode what's happening here. I thought I was getting it while Panzermeister36 was talking about his German armour (it looked like "analagous" was working), but then my hypothesis collapsed when he mentioned the yellow tails of US aircraft models (it seemed then that "triadic" was the thing, but it didn't work with Desert Yellow over Red). I'm quite happy to research this myself, but I lack the art education (or is this physics now?) to articulate the right question... I hope someone can point me in the right direction, since I don't know the right words!

[@Panzermeister36]

I guess the best way to describe this in artistic terms is that I'm playing with the saturation, and also the warmth/coolness of the final colour. On the German tanks, the red is providing warmth to the yellow. In the case of 1930s USN aircraft, I've seen people use a bluish purple. This will give some coolness to the yellow so that the yellow is more cohesive with the rest of the cool-colour finish on the aircraft. So when people are Pre-Shading with black and white before painting the final colour, they are making contrast that will affect the shade (darkness) of the final colour. I am effectively doing the same but with the saturation or hue, rather than the shade. Maybe "Pre-Saturating" should be what I call this. Now of course the key is the final colour on top has to be very slightly transparent for these effects to show through. Building up the colour in a series of thin coats gives you the control to let these previous effects show through subtly.

[@KristovMars]

@@Panzermeister36 Thanks for such a detailed reply! I'll do some experiments and see what I can learn.

[@vasili1207]

easiest way to explain it is coping the way the tank was painted in real life.... red is corrosion proof coat for bare steel that acts as a primer for the base colour .... everything else is weathering after the base colour. there is no technical model term fad name as its just coping the process that heavy machinery used forever its just a painting process

[@lloydmourant8055]

A few years back I hired the services of a local artist to teach me both the theory, and practical applications connected with the ‘colour wheel’. The course itself was fairly expensive but worth every penny. Now that I fully realise how colours work together, I’m achieving some very nice results when airbrushing my models.👍😎

[@Gundumb_guy]

I think that’s the difference between the stages of how serious people are about their modeling projects. I’m color blind af so I can’t see a LOT of colors so I never could really see the difference! 😂

[@lloydmourant8055]

In that case, you deserve much credit for your work young man. I myself suffer from a condition known as stereo blindness, which in basic terms diminishes my ability to triangulate what I see. This is somewhat of a ball ache for me, especially where detail painting is concerned. I have however developed a workaround to my problem. Keep up your great work. 👍

[@melvinbrotherofthejoker436]

Das sum yt ppl shiet

[@markuslouven2644]

That's so correct! Today in Germany, this corrosion protection through red lead is still used in many steel processing processes, only without lead content, but the color has remained the same! It really looks better with the red background! Top!

[@Panzermeister36]

Thank you very much Markus!

[@zachariasobenauf1895]

correct - as i grew up with this "red rust" seal paint (every metallic object in the outside except copper aluminium and stainless teel) i rejected the grey one (usually used for zinc) for a while ... next to its "rust-cover-delaying" it has 3 main features - 1. by its thickness and pasty-ness - and fast drying 5-15 min 10-25° - it closes edges - bolt-screw-gaps & egalizes weld seams 2. it buffers the different temperature strains of the metal and the "paint" - 3. its a very strong "bonding agent" - which grips into/onto the metal and protects it if the paint is lost/damaged

[@MYJEWISHLAMPSHADES]

But why does it look better? 2 coats always looks better.

[@yattaran1484]

As you've said base painting with primer red made the model looks way better and realistic !. So impressive !.

[@shadowblack1987]

No shit... Because the real ones are primed red, then color on top.

[@oxishimaruxo]

Working on ships, we use a terracotta red primer stopside

[@lukestevens8735]

I'm a railway / railroad modeller and often do a base / prime with a rust / dirt primer. On plastic models it is really helpful to remove an translucency.

[@hondasaurusrex6998]

Been builing models for a long time.... always learning something new. No wonder why my German armour looked dull. Thank you for the video.

[@KGmodels]

I personally prime them in black as i love black basing and then paint them in oxide red after,however this is certainly a good and time efficient approach

[@workbenchhobbies4316]

Thanks for the shout out Evan - greatly appreciated. Also - love the exposed primer around the running gear - interesting detail and something Ill look to incorporate (steal) for some upcoming projects :) Keep up the great work mate.

[@Panzermeister36]

Cheers Clayton! Feel free to steal 😁

[@willthorson4543]

I tend to base paint in black or NATO black. I love figuring out the schemes I'm gonna do. It really depends on where or when the model I'm representing was in the world. Occasionally i might do primer red all over, but that's pretty rare. Or a dark brown or dark green. But the vast majority is black. I just enjoy the tones I get in the colors I do.

[@chrisdavis3642]

Yep . I've worked a few restorations and your right.. they're covered with the stuff!

[@Kchildres]

I'm glad to see this video. I used to preach this same message myself but generally just got blank stares. Black priming (in my opinion) absolutely sucks the life out of a paint job. That can be helpful if you're wanting a moody piece. I find it requires so much more effort to bring the colors back up and restore saturation with a black base it's generally more trouble than not. When I do want a moody finish i still usually start with a darkened version of the base color rather than straight black. Thank you for posting!

[@Panzermeister36]

Thank you for sharing your input! I agree completely.

[@blitzkrieg8776]

It's good for free shadowing on Warhammer 40k figures when using a few of the "quick and dirty" techniques such as Slap Chop.

[@Yardbird68]

I've been doing the same for years. I try to find what primer color was used. I don't worry over trying to get an "exact" color, because in the real world, it will vary from manufacturer and mixing ratio, type of thinner used and ambient temperature during when the primer was sprayed on. I do not black base, because whatever color you spray on top, will be darker than what comes out of the bottle.

[@CDMJDMHHC]

yes I use a similar method after watching video about restoring AFV from WW II, I find that the color has a brightness that I like, I use olive drab base or russian green then brown violet ass final coat then weathering.

[@dantimmerman6693]

Welcome back Evan. It's been a while. Glad to see more quality content with excellent information. Do you expect to drop any build or kit review videos anytime soon? I use red and pink primers to bring out the natural richness of yellow and red paints and it does a great job. Your comparisons of red to grey primer is an excellent example.

[@Panzermeister36]

Cheers Dan. Yes, I have a few painting tutorials coming soon on the projects in this video.

[@UnitSe7en]

I like the Tamiya pink primer in the rattle cans, personally.

[@montyenright]

Panzermeister 36... you're the best !! You are only one of about 5 sites I visit and subscribe to for great ideas, tips and full builds. Keep up the good work. BTW.... I just jumped on your Patreon site and gave you some $$$

[@Panzermeister36]

Welcome aboard! Thank you so much for supporting me.

[@thedarksage328]

Panzermeister36 is a perfectionist! Thanks for sharing this valuable information.

[@Panzermeister36]

I absolutely am. And it's decreased my productivity 😁 but I enjoy it so that's what matters most!

[@perrylamb6286]

I really like the way you've explained it. I've just started back in armor modeling after about 30 years. Back then, everything was brush painted. Now, using an airbrush, preshading in black made sense, until now. Going to try my next project with red.

[@gavin5326]

The exposed red primer looks so cool behind the wheels and such, I gotta try that on something next

[@Panzermeister36]

It definitely adds some pop to the vehicle!

[@chrisveya7556]

Interesting thoughts! I never use hairspray chippings but always use quite some time thinking about which primer colour to combine with which preshading colour tones. Always keeping the base colour & paint scheme in mind. Theres a lot to consider on each and every model. I think a good priming & preshading is half the paint job done already. Cheers from Switzerland!🎉

[@cluser212]

Really cool idea! I brush-paint, so we'll see how that goes.

[@Android-rz8mb]

Great Video …. You might want to try Mr. surfacer mahogany as a primer coat. It’s a dark brown when you put the dark yellow over it, it brings out more of the brown of the dark yellow.

[@Panzermeister36]

I did get some of this recently! Will test it soon.

[@BrailleScale]

Great video! I've always loved your use of the red primer for these reasons- especially the fact that it is the way they were actually painted and probably important to note the impact it will have on the final color is true at 1:35 the same way it was true on those original vehicles. These thin airbrushed layers can always let a little of that base influence show through due to any slight transparency or variation in opacity/coverage. I also love the way you'll paint your freehand airbrush camo to have that scale effect like it is a little 1:35 guy with a paint gun, his arm would only reach so far. It would be interesting to see what a blue/green primer or base layer would look like under a panzer grey, that's a great idea! I'll have to give it a shot as I am personally not a fan of the finishes where blue paint is added to post-shaded highlights or modulation, I think that can easily start to creep too far into an actual blue color, as opposed to just a cool dark grey but I do think that a cool grey looks the part. Love seeing all the different projects on your bench! Hope the holidays are treating you well.

[@Panzermeister36]

I have a couple of panzer grey subjects to do soon, so I will give the blue underpainting a shot on one of them!

[@nickbroekhuizen8858]

i always do my armor in red oxide primer (Tamiya) in the real world red oxide primer is an anti-rust primer and is still used today to protect metal against rust .

[@blacknass1943]

i am from switzerland and the priming was also done on farmer amschines :) tehy ar stil primered often in red or orange.

[@Poopster4U]

Ah that makes perfect sense!

[@timothyoffenbacher6190]

Nice Even - I find lacquer based primers seem to have more of an adheison element to the model and subsequently seem to form a better bond with glued parts (and even etched parts) to the model as opposed to Acrylic primers. Do you find the same?

[@Panzermeister36]

Yes absolutely, lacquers are more durable paints than acrylics in my experience.

[@mausgrau]

You are right the colour of the anti rust primer was and is red.

[@jasonbrannock1698]

Very good ,excellent historical accuracy. That's the real life way the german's painted their tanks ad and vehicles. Thanks. F 🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺

[@michaelclarke8507]

Like the 250 half track painting good work still trying to get that look myself

[@davegiles2344]

Have a great Christmas 🎄

[@Panzermeister36]

Thank you; have a great Christmas as well!

[@Swellington_]

I recently tried putting a little chrome or a steel color on like the fender edges and turret edges etc,and then applying AK's worn effects(hair spray technique basically) and then painting over it and going back and removing just enough paint to reveal a little of the steel color and it looks good,I know you can do your chipping after you paint but Im lazy and this way gives it a better look than I can do with trying to brush it on

[@Panzermeister36]

I am going to try actual metallic chipping effects on an upcoming project (softskin vehicle). It's hard to find a metallic paint that doesn't seem to have large pigments/flakes that seems out-of-scale, but there's got to be a good option out there.

[@Hori_Ado]

That makes lot of sense. I found mahogany brown primer works much better than black or grey for "yellowish" types of paints.

[@hardcoremedic]

your red primer on back and lower hull theory is good for late production vehicles, no time,no paint ect.. all examples you show here ,are late war , Stug I think . But gonna try that red giving better tone on a model, warm underground makes sense.

[@CocoHutzpah]

I should give that a try. I used a brown primer on one group of Imperial Guardsmen, grey on another, black on a few, and white on some others. I don't think I ever put them next to each other to see how the colors differed.

[@Panzermeister36]

I'm going to try other primers to see if I can get more interesting results. Blue, green, purple...

[@leedobson]

Modern modellers seem to love multiple coats of paint, it's a good job kits are so detailed now otherwise it would be lost under all the paint

[@Panzermeister36]

That is a good point. It is important to keep each coat as thin as possible.

[@TheUltimateEel]

Odd logic, more detail would be easier to lose under multiple coats of paint, would it not? Less detailed kits have less to lose and larger shapes that stand up better to thick paint. What you said made no sense at all, with all due respect.

[@zephyrstrife4668]

Huh, this is intriguing. I find myself wanting to try this with the dreadnought that comes with the Leviathan box set to see if it makes a significant effect on the color scheme I'm using for my Space Marine chapter.

[@brucesmith1383]

How do you do camouflage patterns on your military vehicles! Ie: Tanks or Aircraft

[@WargamingHistory]

Must try hull red, I normally base coat in brown red XF 64 or brown xf10

[@danreed7889]

Great ideas. I've just started using primer myself, so I found this helpful.

[@Panzermeister36]

Glad it was helpful! Cheers

[@1337flite]

I think the biggest and most noticable difference between 2:05 and 2:38 is that they have been photographed at different stages. The fact that the 2:38 vehicle is nearly complete (has tracks, has accoutrements) has pin washes, weathering, etc making the detail pop more, whereas the 2:05 vehicle has not really even finsinshed base assempbly let alone washes, weathering etc be makes it very hard to judge the effect if any of the red base. I don't think most people have the eye - the discernment - to be able to break down just what it is that is making one model look better than the other. Based on the images provided (and logic) I think the chipping and leaving the red areas red are totally valid. I'm less convinced that there is any real change to tone of the top coat. Thanks for the video and sharing your technique and thoughts.

[@Panzermeister36]

I wish I had been able to show the grey-primed vehicle in the video for direct comparison, but I've moved 3 times since I finished it so I don't have it on hand anymore unfortunately...

[@davidsalvini7495]

What are your thoughts on the so-called "scaling effect" for painting scale models- i.e. the notion that the smaller the scale the lighter the requisite colors need to be in order to appear more realistic?

[@Panzermeister36]

I'm not a big believer in that, since when we view or photograph the model, we do so up-close at a similar distance from how you would in real life. So, the concept of painting it lighter to account for scale i.e. distance doesn't make sense to me....at least for that reason. On the other hand, weathering with washes and matte varnishes can contribute to darkening the finish, so I often paint the model a little bit lighter to start. This way, weathering darkens it back to where I want in the end.

[@BrailleScale]

I think it's representative of a real-world phenomenon. The further something is away from you, the lighter, more desaturated it will look and the less contrast it will have. It's just an atmospheric effect, that's why mountains covered in green trees can look greyish blue off on the distant horizon just to give you an extreme example of this. The reason I chose to do this with models is because the smaller something is, the "further away" it appears to be if it were actually 1:1 scale. To Evan's point, a 1:35 tank viewed from 4 inches away would roughly look something like a 1:1 tank viewed from... 11 feet away I think? I am not great with scale conversion. But with that- there is not a lot of atmospheric distortion or effect on a real tank viewed from such a short distance. I do think it comes into play more with smaller scales like 1:48 or 1:72, definitely things like ships at 1:500 scale or something extreme like that. BUT- it can also come into play from a display cabinet or contest tabletop because those are viewed initially from 3 or more feet away before someone takes that 4-inch look. Even at 3 feet, a 1:35 scale tank starts to look like something 1:1 scale viewed around 100-ish feet away I believe. At 100 feet away, I would imagine an object would look lighter at that distance than the same object if it was right next to you. 2D painters add this kind of atmospheric depth to their art- and that's all any of this hobby is at the end of the day- art. Unless someone is building a 1:1 functional reproduction or something like that, it can never be truly "realistic". As soon as one adds pre or post-shading, pin washes, color modulation, zenithal lighting effects, or anything like that to artificially enhance the perceived realism of the model, it's an artistic technique being applied to trick the viewer into a sense of suspended disbelief that this little plastic kit is actually representative of its 1:1 counterpart. In my opinion, if you found a perfect 1:1 color match and painted a small vehicle in that exactly perfect color, it would feel too dark to a viewer if they could hold it up next to the real thing, especially if that model was feet away from them. If you left it like that without any artistic effects, it would also look toy-like and none of the details or panels would pop out. I think that's where pre/post shading, color modulation, etc. have all come from, the need to take something small and make it look larger, giving it the same effects of light and shadow and depth that a larger vehicle would show in a real-world environment if it was taken in and viewed all at once the same way a model can be. Like any other technique, it can be overdone and it's all subjective to one's artistic taste, but it's all just different ways of trying to achieve the same thing. Again- to agree with Evan, most weathering/wash steps will only darken a base coat, so I don't think it ever hurts to add some light/dark variation to a finish. It's not realistic in the sense that of course, this is not something ever done to 1:1 vehicles at the factory, but I think it can make it "look" or "feel real" compared to the alternative of just leaving something a solid, "correct" color. Mind you there is nothing wrong with any specific technique though- as long as the modeler is enjoying their time and the process is fulfilling their hobby goals 🙂

[@jyvesguillemot]

what could be more natural than painting a kit like the real model! In my opinion, this is obvious, but model making being subject to fashion phenomena followed like sheep (zenital painting among others) by the majority, only comes back at the sources makes you cry genius!finally, common sense takes over. thank for your video my friend .

[@charleslatora5750]

Thank you for the information. I never really noticed any red rust and the places that you showed in photos or books. I have some old models (70-80's) that someday I would like to restore to better condition. Back then, I didn't know about primers. I may just redo/remove the paint scheme on them and repaint them. Mostly German WW2. Thinking that when I repaint and decal a couple of Americans and British vehicles that I might try to do some dioramas with them. Left modeling for hex and counter n Area control war games though I have a bunch of 6mm GHQ WW2 east front micro armour from last century. lots unpainted but I hope to get to them in 2024. Two years ago fell into the sphere of miniatures. Mostly in 25-30mm. Mostly Fantasy, medieval humans, very few figures with guns. Learning about primers finally. Got a Brumbar waiting to be built. Everything I've painted has been by brush. I want to get a paint sprayer so I can try and do right by the Brumbar. Got some 1:100 Soviet tanks to build. (9). Bought a bunch of Tiger's n Sherman's preassembled n painted from Noble Knight. Tigers are tired of just shooting Shermans...lol Subbed👍

[@Neruomir]

As far as i know most if not all German armor was delivered during late war in dunkel gelb from factory to be camouflaged by the receiving unit to the local demands. Snow, tundra, forest, desert etc. Tho i have heard those units used rust prevention primer as a camo paint during paint shortages.

[@Panzermeister36]

Unfortunately this is misinformation spread mainly by model paint companies. German armour was only deployed in the base yellow with camouflage applied by units between February 1943 and August 1944. Starting in August 1944, all vehicles had the three colour camouflages painted in the factory in standardized schemes. This was done so that the vehicles would be camouflaged during transportation to the units; the Allies had air superiority over German by this point. There is also no evidence that the red primer was ever used as part of the camouflage. Even the last 6 King Tigers and the last batch of Panthers which rolled out of the factory in April 1945 directly into combat were photographed still painted in the elaborate factory-applied camouflage patterns. Basically, the German military acceptance department would have not accepted vehicles not fully completed and the manufacturers would not have been paid otherwise. War is business, so the factories assembling tanks were under pressure to still complete everything to the requirements in order to be paid by the government, even in the last weeks of the war.

[@statoilbensin2190]

Yes I see that you get a wery warm saturated finish when using red primer. I mostly use black as a base because I do the black and white highlight. Maybe you can do it with red too? Use a lighter red colour as highlight?

[@Panzermeister36]

That should work out!

[@ModelAirplaneMaker]

Well done - I was wondering about different "basing" colours and their effect on the final colour. For example, on whites and light greys, the black can be very stark. Sure, you can keep putting light coats on but maybe the effect will be a bit more subtle with a dark grey base. Certainly worth experimenting. Thanks for the video!

[@Panzermeister36]

Thanks Chris! I will be experimenting more in the future with other colours.

[@RobbertN]

For German armor models I use MRP-033 (German WW2 AFV) primer, that's also red!

[@Panzermeister36]

I have not been able to get any MRP paints but hopefully some day they are available in Canada.

[@georgebernard8983]

Panzermeister, would it be safe to say the underside of the hull would not have been painted? Thanks for the great video!

[@Panzermeister36]

I would personally say yes, though I have seen heated discussions online going both ways! It's confirmed that the rear faces of the wheels were often red, so the underside of the hull being red would also make sense. I have not seen a photo that proves this though.

[@georgebernard8983]

@@Panzermeister36 It does make sense, especially towards the end of the war when supplies were lacking. Plus, to paint the underside you would have to flip the hull, crawl under it or lift it up. Thanks!

[@gruppenfuhrer45]

Wow dead on mate. Ty so much for this video and keep on the great work!!!!

[@javierpozuelo3452]

Siempre aprendo con tus videos. Gracias

[@thomasbuyl2539]

The point about giving "warmth" to the base color is definitely true, especially for the yellow basecoats. I like to still do the hairspray chipping myself for time reasons and because I'm not proficient in paintbrush chipping. And also for the realism part. What I always wondered though, and I can't really find a source confirming or denying it, is whether or not they also used the red oxide primer already in the early years, like 1935 - 1940? I built a panzer I ausf A in 1935 buntfarbenanstrich and also used the red oxide primer, but I'm unsure if it is historically accurate? Great vid as always!

[@Panzermeister36]

Thank you! As far as I know, the red oxide is correct for early-war vehicles as well.

[@HamilkarBarkasScaleModelling]

"Why low effort videos get a ton of views and high effort videos with more than just one purpose almost get ignored" would also be a topic for a video one day :D

[@Panzermeister36]

Absolutely, and it would surely get an easy 100,000 views!

[@MariusIusan]

Great tutorial Evan!

[@ChristianGurney]

Nice explanation. Thanks for doing this.

[@nonamo5700]

Very insightful, thanks for sharing!

[@georgewelch2366]

Another fantastic video Evan. You mention when your reason for using read primer that that’s how it was done in real life. That’s perfect logic, but if you follow that wouldn’t you Panzer Grey units also have been painted in red primer to start?

[@Panzermeister36]

Yes George, that would be a good reason to try the red base under grey. But when it comes to yellow, you have the two benefits: accuracy and adding warmth. With the grey, you don't want the added warmth aspect, so in that case black could be preferable. You can still paint selected red on the rear faces of wheels etc. Everything is a trade-off I guess! Lots to experiment with 😁

[@scaleartsg]

i use mahagony primer. it helps with the hue of the dark yellow on top.

[@Panzermeister36]

I got some of that recently that I will try soon!

[@crackerbarrel6965]

First two things (and why I do it) is modulation and wet chipping effects.

[@lmmodellismomilitare]

So interesting video! Thank you for sharing

[@THROTTLEPOWER]

Great vid Evan 👍👍

[@anyblunder6782]

That’s an excellent tip. I’m going to try it.

[@Panzermeister36]

Let me know how it goes!

[@anyblunder6782]

@@Panzermeister36 will do.

[@trevorstone3056]

A really interesting and useful video - thanks!

[@Panzermeister36]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@aharonswordofmagnus6721]

Most of museums use red paint as a base in places where recovered parts had their paint badly damaged. Its probably to protect it from rust but seeing it on the model makes it that more realistic for me XD

[@donatiencarloz3195]

Thanks for this interesting video! When you primer only with lacquer paint, does it give you the same grip and auto leveling result, as a primer (acrylic or polyurethane)? I'm looking for a good red primer

[@davidedel31]

Have a question, so what is the sequence of painting a tiger. So when the Tiger came out the factory it was painted in red primer. Then the tank was then painted Tiger Grey and then shipped and then when in the field was painted with camo colors. Also the tanks that went to Africa were painted in Italy before they were shipped to with the desert camo?

[@Panzermeister36]

The Tigers were primed in red and then painted one of three ways: The first ~20 Tigers were painted in grey. This was a very limited batch and most of these fought around Leningrad. The majority of "early" Tigers were painted in RAL8000 base with RAL7027 camouflage covering 1/3rd of the vehicle. This was done at the factory until at least April 1943. Tiger 131 which survives today at the Bovington tank museum is a good example of this. After that, Tigers were painted in RAL7028 -- the standard German dark yellow colour. Once they arrived at the unit they could be painted with custom camouflage using the green and/or brown colours. Tanks weren't typically painted over multiple times. They didn't survive long enough in combat for that to be an issue.

[@Gnushk736]

I'm wondering when/if you will contiunue on that T-34 122 model. I think it's a very cool tank even though it was never produced. I really want to build one myself but the Wilder turret is discontinued so that's pretty sad. But I did find a turret in 1/72nd scale made by OKB Grigorov that I think I will purchase.

[@Panzermeister36]

It's still sitting around but I'm not super happy with how the winter camouflage looks. May repaint it. Not sure...

[@barriereid9244]

In medieval England yellow was used as an undertone for skin.

[@zavod4410]

You probably don't want to put links to other people's videos, so I apologize for that but you should watch that video. It's the original paint on a late war stug 3. Apparently, Even the horizontal surfaces aren't painted yellow because Hillary Doyle mentions the tops of the fenders are in red primer, which I think is pretty interesting and would probably make a pretty cool looking model as well. Again, I apologize for putting a link. I didn't realize it was probably against the guidelines until after I posted it... But you should check it out...

[@Panzermeister36]

KZbin automatically removes comments with links to avoid people selling things. Nothing I can do about that. I know of the vehicle you are talking about; Jan 1945 Production StuG III G Alkett Factory. I am building and painting one just like it. Red primer is exposed on the fenders beside the superstructure as that area is blanked by the side skirts (which are no longer on the vehicle). It's also not a yellow base as the order was to use the green or brown as the base colour starting in Dec 1944. Yellow is one of the final colours which gives a very interesting dark camouflage.

[@zavod4410]

Yes it's really an interesting vehicle, it also has the original red crosses on it. You could do a video on that too?

[@Panzermeister36]

Red crosses is another late-war thing. I've seen it on a few other vehicles including some original colour photographs. I'll cover it in a video some day for sure!

[@davidhaynes5163]

What is the s3cind model with the tri color Camo looks a cool kit 👍👍

[@simonmowatt]

Great video, as always. Do you know what colour(s) primer the Germans used on their early war vehicles (like those in grey or tropical camouflage)? I also use the Tamiya Red Primer for mid-late war vehicles , but am interested in what other colours were used as primers. Did they ever run out of standard primers and use others, for example from the aviation industry? I've also never actually worked out what primers (if any) were applied to German aircraft in the war.

[@Panzermeister36]

During the war German armour was always in the red primer. Later in the war (late '44 onwards) a grey zinc phosphate primer was used on armour plates, but it's not clear if it was left that way. It's more likely that this grey primer was used to coat the armour plates when they were individually finished, and then after everything was welded together, the whole vehicle was re-primed in red oxide.

[@flitsertheo]

The correct colour would be RAL8012 Rotbraun (red brown). Though if you want a lighter tone I would suggest RAL3016 Korallenrot (coral red).

[@Сказка-з8у]

Cool video! I love red + hull red (Mr.color c29) for shadows. I hardly recomend video with Hilary Doyle showing StuG III by Sofilien.

[@Panzermeister36]

I have not tried that exact colour but I shall give it a test to compare!

[@PiperStart]

Very informative, thanks.

[@Panzermeister36]

Thanks for watching!

[@WurstWesen82]

This is the way!

[@theodoreshasta7846]

Excellent video, which is much appreciated. You do beautiful work.

[@Panzermeister36]

Thank you very much! I have some tutorials coming in the new year on the vehicles I showed in the video.

[@theodoreshasta7846]

@@Panzermeister36 Great!

[@shadowblack1987]

Red primer is used in anti rust for military vehicles. When color goes over it, it's more true to what the real ones are. That's it. Nothing else. You can add red to your colors for the same effect... But tamkya makes hull red primer for a reason.

[@williamrowell3628]

Great stuff as usual!

[@Panzermeister36]

Thanks again!

[@Octopootie1]

I mainly do model aircraft, and usually do black basing with marble coating for a subtle worn effect. I do have a question somewhat related to the topic of the video for you. I can get somewhat obsessive over getting colors that look "right" to my eye. What's your preferred dunkelgelb? I know that's a can of worms, but I like the look you've got on a lot of the examples you showed in this video. As an aside, the best out of bottle version I've found is Gaia Notes #204

[@Panzermeister36]

Personally I think the AK Real Color RC060 is great, though I will also use the Tamiya XF-88 or LP-55. I try to use a slightly different mix on each project so that everything on my shelf isn't exactly the same. Those three I listed are all a little varied, and for example, I'd probably use LP-55 for a straight dunkelgelb vehicle, but the AK RC for a tricolour camouflage (paired with the RC068 and 047) since the AK RC yellow is a bit more saturated.

[@Octopootie1]

@@Panzermeister36 Thank you for the detailed response! I myself also tend to use different paint brands for the same color, sometimes even a custom mix. I bought AK RC's when they first came out, and did very much like their dunkelgelb. So somewhat recently I bought a few more bottles and was disheartened to see they were a completely different color! The new bottles looked more like their RAL 8000 color. I even contacted AK about it and they informed me they did indeed change the formula to a new "more accurate" color. Shame I preferred the original. I also just got a bottle of SMS Dunkelgelb. Haven't tested it yet, it's a little pale and has a slight green tinge to it, which I kinda like. I might also get a bottle of a small boutique brand called model car world (MCW) i believe his mixes are based on the old testors model masters which I used to like. Sorry for the ramble, again thanks for the answer!

[@Panzermeister36]

My bottle of AK RC Dunkelgelb is more than a year old so it's probably the older colour. I will take a look at the hobby store next time to see if it's different! A shame indeed. I have never tried SMS personally though I know many people love it.

[@Octopootie1]

@@Panzermeister36 I can't tell you when the change in the real colors took place, but my picture comparing the old to the at the time new dunkelgelb was taken in October 2022. When I messaged them it sounded like the change had taken place some time ago. All that matters is you like the color though, and your results are very impressive! I haven't tried the SMS yet, got some RLM colors and through in the dunkelgelb cause it looked interesting. I haven't heard much on the brand other than some colors are a little thick out of the bottle and need more thinning, but that's no biggie

[@zavod4410]

@Panzermeister36 Does this apply to Panzer Gray? If you remove the turret basket on a gray tiger will it be red or gray?

[@Panzermeister36]

It should be red. In the video I showed an example of a Pz III with a removed bin and it appears red oxide underneath.

[@zavod4410]

@@Panzermeister36 well I'm trying to do a tiger 1 from Kursk that is a gray tank over painted in yellow. But I'm doing it on a rail car so if I have the outer wheels pulled off and the side skirts pulled off, what color are you thinking? On the backsides of the wheels and underneath the side skirts?

[@Panzermeister36]

Backs of the wheels I would for sure do in primer, but the outer faces of the inner interleaved wheels you could leave in grey -- those outer faces would have been originally painted grey, but if they're not normally visible in the end, they would likely not have been painted yellow. For the side skirts, the area of the hull side usually hidden by the skirts should be yellow, as they painted the what could be visible if the skirts fell off. Though you could also do grey here, just not primer. The inside face of the dismounted skirts I would do in primer just like the inner face of the wheels facing the hull.

[@keithscott1255]

So big cats have red bottoms?

[@Panzermeister36]

This is likely the case, yes.

[@michaelvalenzuela2528]

I use Humbrol Track color (#173)

[@hex1c]

I've seen some people paint the model all black and then use blue, green and red in random spots before the main color. What do you think about that technique?

[@Panzermeister36]

That's to give a similar effect to the "underpainting" I was talking about, though by varying different colours you would also get a Pre-Shading effect! I had not considered that. Everyone has their own styles 😁

[@fabriziodaurizio1009]

"RED LEAD" Was the rust proofing primer back in the day.

[@Panzermeister36]

Yes, it's a red lead oxide.

[@SherlockSpiner]

Well my mind has been blown.

[@shengyi1701]

Wonder if we can use it for modern armor? Marder 1A5, Leopard 2s and Bradleys?

[@Panzermeister36]

In that case I may try something different. Your primer on those vehicles may be red, but more likely some kind of light yellow or white. I would need to do more research.

[@paulmillard1130]

Hi I'm building most of a stug brigade and 0:59 struggling to find a 1/35 kfz 253 ammunition carrier also a kfz 15 staff car. Any ideas thanks. As for painting I usually copy whatever was done full size.

[@Panzermeister36]

Hello Paul. Dragon/cyberhobby make a couple of sdkfz 253 kits (artillery observation vehicle), and Dragon makes the 252 ammo carrier. They're a little old but still good kits. The Kfz 15 should be available from Tamiya, Italeri, maybe Bronco?

[@paulmillard1130]

@@Panzermeister36 Oh thank you I have struggled to get all my kits together. I don't mind how old or even second hand unstarted.

[@atha6500]

would gaianotes evo oxide red be bright enough to have a warmth effect for this tecnique

[@Panzermeister36]

I imagine it would.

[@od1452]

I have read a lot about WW2 Soviet tanks but trusted experts have confused me as one says they used no primer on tanks and another claims they used Red Oxide. Do yoou have any insight ?

[@Panzermeister36]

From what I understand, before the war, vehicles were finished to a higher standard and, for example, KV-1 were primed in a red oxide (not sure about other vehicles; might depend on the factory). During the war, 4BO green was sufficient to serve as a paint-and-primer in one, so no red oxide is below it on a T-34. I don't have a lot of information on this topic though.

[@amun1999]

Can you do some weathering work for myself? 8 have some L&N SD40-2' that I want weathered for my dad's retirement shelf track. How could I contact you?

[@Panzermeister36]

You can email me at [e-mail]

[@ArmourEmpire]

Good logic. Totally agree. The primer colour has a big impact on subsequent coats for sure.

[@Panzermeister36]

Cheers Mark! Hope you are doing well. Michael told me he had a great time with you on his trip to Telford.

[@ArmourEmpire]

@@Panzermeister36 it was great to meet him and I think he really enjoyed it. Let's get you over here one day mate

[@Panzermeister36]

For sure!

[@andrejstojsin]

Primer color is more important than people think. I recently went to a Flames of War tournament, and people were like wow how do you have such vibrant color on your tanks, all of us have very dark vehicles with muted colors. And then I explained them why they can't use black primer for 1:100 scale and that is the main reason.

[@CMDR.Gonzo.von.Richthofen]

What color do you prime with for 1:100? FoW player here.

[@andrejstojsin]

Ivory for my germans@@CMDR.Gonzo.von.Richthofen

[@allanjarnagin3540]

"... skin a cat..." Missed opportunity there with "skin a Tiger"

[@davidknights3878]

Evan, why do you paint in red primer? :)

[@Panzermeister36]

I do it to be different, because you prime in black.

[@ryburnsjr]

The only primer I use for all models

[@anjkovo2138]

Hi can you recommend a good air brush for beginners please👍👍

[@Panzermeister36]

My basic airbrush is a Badger 105 Patriot. Recently a few very cheap airbrushes have come onto the market; they're less than half the price of other airbrushes. Ghalleri and NeoEco are these brands. I have the NeoEco and I will test it soon...

[@cmbart1]

Another reason: in the VERY late war period vehicles were leaving the factory JUST in red primer and getting a field applied paint scheme.

[@Panzermeister36]

This is not true, and is a myth created by model makers. Field applied paint schemes actually stopped on August 1944, since after that point all three colours were applied in the factory in standardized schemes sometimes with stencils. This was done due to allied air superiority; otherwise tanks were not camouflaged during transportation to the units. There's photos of the last Panthers and King Tigers that rolled out of the factories in April 1945 and they're still painted in the elaborate factory-applied camouflage patterns. There's no photos of any tanks deployed in red primer. The German tank manufacturers would not have been paid otherwise by the material acceptance agency... those manufacturers were businesses after all.

[@cmbart1]

@@Panzermeister36 I may be mistaking it for the official orders being changed. I can't find the link to the article any more but there was a very late change in official colors stating they would be painted in overall olivegrun rather than dunkelgelb at the factory. But that was so late a change it didn't affect many vehicles, however if memory serves some tanks did get the overall olive.

[@azraelvrykolakas157]

Probably how beksinski would do it if he painted models. Just need to leave more of the red visible and add cyan accents.

[@matthew_thefallen]

amazing stuff! * throws away his grey primers *

[@tonyromano6220]

Nice.

[@philgee486]

👍