PART 3: REVIEW of the Kirmuss Ultrasonic

[@kirmussaudio7578]

Received some calls, thank you.... At 4:07 to aprox. 4:27 or so we talk about a 3 minute cycle rather than a full five minute cycle if the records are known to not have been abused or are new, this is for a surface clean only, and does not do a restoration process. This is done with no ionizing spray applied and worked in with the goat hair brush. If you wish to restore, you need to follow the guidelines below. Records that have scratches, have fungus on them, are dirty, always use the 5 minute cycle with no spray applied, (not 3 minutes as described in the video), then follow the instructions seen and in our manual and supplement. If we want to restore: THEN: 1) New records after this first 3 minutes, then do four, 2 minute cycles with spray applied, plus a five minute cycle with spray applied at the end. .... Use the bunny cloth between cycles to remove any pooled water so as not to dilute the 2% diol in the spray. 2) Records that have "pooled" water or where you see hundreds of water droplets on the record surface once placed on the workspace after taking the record out of the 5 or 3 initial pre wash minute cycle with no spray applied after you shook the record to remove water... this means there is a severe coating on the record, the hundreds of water droplets would indicate where there was LAST protectant used, which we want to strip off.. For this, then use the four 2 minute cycles and the five minute cycle as described above, wiping off any pooled water between cycles before applying the spray. (not to dilute the spray that changes the charge of the record to be opposite to that of water. 3) Records that are vintage and of provenance unknown, and where after the first 5 minute cycle in the machine does not show any large pools of water, use 3 or 4 five minute cycles with the spray applied as instructed in the manual. Between cycles: You will see a rise and fall of a whitish materials when applying the spray. This is the colorant in the spray that allows you to determine if the processing in the machine has been completed or not. A rapid rise and dissipation of the colorant indicates that there is nothing else for the ultrasonic to remove. record also will be virtually dry once restored. Records in this category see 3 or 4, five minute cycles. There is no timer and a green light, you see what has been removed, and when there is nothing to remove. Rule of thumb for new records 17 years or younger, some may leach all the time materials, plastics are not the same as vintage records, so we use cycles as follows: 5 (or 3 minutes in the machine, then four, 2 minute cycles with sprat, then a final 5 minute with spray applied. Total 18 (17) minutes. We can do 4 records at a time... The in and out of the machine is necessary as the record as it spins sees the induced charge wear off. Records and water with or without a soap in the basin have the same electrical charge. We want to attract the effects of cavitation, that is why we use the ionizing spray. Do pad dry the goat hair brush between applications of the spray with the bunny cloth so we can "read" what we have seen the ultrasonic remove. The first cycle will remove the films that were air, vacuum, or spin dried onto the record surface by other cleaning methods. We then strip out the film deposited on the record by the outgassing of the plasticizer when in the paper or plastic record sleeve... Then finally the release agent (called pressing oil by the Shure Brothers in 1977) that surfaces as the biscuit is being pressed, allowing the record to pop out...this "oil" , cooling, now sees any dust or dirt around the record to be fused into this oil, home to those unwanted pops in new records. Keep those records spinning! The results of the processing: 1. Restoration of a Frank Sinatra Record. Mexico City Nov 2023 KirmussAudio event. Before restoration: Lots of noise. Crackles abound. Sound Muddled. The record was processed before in a 120 KHz ultrasonic. Processed 5 times. So I was told, 5 minutes each time. Video Before Kirmuss Processing: kzbin.info/door/q6s2TT2s7SgZu_7F1D37SQ Video After Kirmuss Restoration: Increase in signal and frequency response, pops gone. kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYO9ZmODfrWnjKM 2. From our record restoration event in Mexico City in front of Billboard Magazine and with an invitation only meeting of Discos two weeks ago held at the Margules factory, very nice of him, a record that was brought in that was processed prior with a vacuum cleaning system saw these results: Before Kirmuss; kzbin.info-L2gIqQ3nok After Kirmuss: kzbin.info_6_fhGWMBjM

[@kirmussaudio7578]

If anyone is visiting AXPONA or any of the other shows, bring in a nasty record from home to our booth for before and after testing. Present alwsys a turntable, headphones provided by Grado, amp by Jeff Rowland Design, and a SOTA turntable with the new Alphason 200S tonearm..and a spectrum analyzer to measure cartridge output and frequency response. Bring in perhaps a record that you "cleaned" using any cleaning system. See and hear what record groove restoration provides you with!

[@jonnymoka]

Dude thanks for sharing, where were you 20 years ago

[@revelry1969]

I find the polishing step is very important to having a quiet disk after using the Kirmuss. Also use the destat after because you will create some static

[@LetsCleanaRecord]

Good advice!

[@kirmussaudio7578]

It removes static from the record and with the charge of the record once changed, repels dust. @@LetsCleanaRecord

[@DrAlanWeinstein]

That you again for your superb instructional videos of the Kirmuss. I never saw Kirmuss himself ever wipe the water off the record before spraying the surfactant. Is it possible that leaving the fluid on the record when you spray the 3 blasts of surfactant lets it flow deeper in the grooves?

[@LetsCleanaRecord]

I wondered the same thing but after chatting with Dr Kirmuss, we felt it best to avoid diluting the surfactant any further. Good question and thanks for watching!

[@kirmussaudio7578]

The spray is not a surfactant (cleaning solution, per say)... it is an ionizing agent that changes the charge of the record to be opposite to that of distilled water, to attract the effects of cavitation. Further, we have proven where any other cleaning process cannot do much as the liquids see water droplets that are 100 to 110 microns in size. A record's groove is a U shape, 6 microns at the bottom by 35 to 45 microns at the surface (width varies with the music). Even our spray cannot each into the grooves. It is the attraction of water to the record and thus allowing cavitation to occur close to the record where we see the imploding bubbles create that vacuum and pull materials out of the record's groove. (and before in cycles films left over by air, vacuum or spin drying, then the film left by the outgassing of the record's plasticizer while sitting in a per or plastic record sleeve, then final the release agent itself.)

[@kirmussaudio7578]

When there are pools water on the record after the first 5 minute cycle with the ionizing spray applied to the record, indeed wipe off the extra pooled water with the bunny cloth before applying the ionizing spray to the record. The spray is 2% propanediol 1-2-178 in 98% distilled water. This not to dilute the spray. Also with pools of water or where hundreds of small water droplets are on the record, indicating a severe coating is on the surface including LAST, use four 2 minute cycles plus a final 5 minute cycle with ionizing spray applied. Between cycles use the bunny cloth to remove water. Pad dry the goat hair brush between cycles.

[@irawong]

I recall writing to Walt Davies at LAST decades ago asking if cleaning a record after his treatment removed the preservative. He wrote back that LAST treated the vinyl at a molecular level and could not be removed through a cleaning with my then Nitty Gritty vacuum machine. I’ll try to see if I can find that old letter…

[@kirmussaudio7578]

Our process removes the coating.

[@TheAgeOfAnalog]

Coincidentally, I’ve been collecting records for 40 years and have owned a record store for the past 5 years, and I’d never seen a LAST sticker on a jacket until this morning. I had a MoFi Holst’s The Planets that I just sold on Discogs last night. Saw the sticker when I was packing it up for shipping. Didn’t know what it meant until now.

[@jonnymoka]

Great stuff

[@revelry1969]

It’s takes a long time sometimes to get that back to virgin vinyl. I just did a record with 5x5 min cycles

[@kirmussaudio7578]

Records of provenance unknown are at times problematic, but congrats on your restoration. The above procedure should assist! Keep those records spinning!

[@michaelrumble5474]

Have had mine for two years in Australia outstanding unit very gentle, the owner knows his shit he has sought great info from Canadian archives and interpreted that into his cleaning no fool of a manVery cost-effective quick however results are really good you say a lot of rubbish in the ultrasonic tank to prove it works

[@kirmussaudio7578]

Many thanks, Mate!👌

[@TheAgeOfAnalog]

The application of Last preservative reminds me of those who extol the virtues of Gruv Glide. Sure it makes your record sound quieter, it’s a layer of grease!

[@bilguana11]

Just another reason why I mostly play CDs, DVD-As, and hi-rez files. It would take years, maybe decades, to clean all of my old LPs.

[@LetsCleanaRecord]

But you're missing out on all the fun!

[@oiygfdxssfgg]

I have an anti static gun too and I press ans release the handle quickly with the same results, no need to do it slowly.

[@jonnymoka]

Your background music is reminiscent of Pink Floyd dark side feel

[@mozillapersona3211]

Please consider adding some supporting evidence to your videos. This can be achieved in the form of microscopic images (the carson microflip is $20 and clips onto your phone), and images of the sound samples. I understand that copyright protection makes audio samples difficult, but Kirmuss claims a multiple-dB improvement. Possible to show?

[@LetsCleanaRecord]

That's a good suggestion and we'll try to show more evidence. Maybe I'll try using a decibel meter?

[@ghn5ue336]

How about cleaning something like the Analog Productions test record? You could easily measure the 1 khz tone at the beginning with the VU meter in a tape deck, run the record through the process and measure it again to see if it does get louder.

[@kirmussaudio7578]

@@LetsCleanaRecord PROOF YOU REQUESTED: 1. Restoration of a Frank Sinatra Record. Mexico City Nov 2023 KirmussAudio event. Before restoration: Lots of noise. Crackles abound. Sound Muddled. The record was processed before in a 120 KHz ultrasonic. Processed 5 times. Before in a vacuum based cleaning system, so I was told. Video Before Kirmuss Processing: kzbin.info/door/q6s2TT2s7SgZu_7F1D37SQ Video After Kirmuss Restoration: Increase in signal and frequency response, pops gone. kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYO9ZmODfrWnjKM 2. From our record restoration event in Mexico City in front of Billboard Magazine and with an invitation only meeting of Discos two weeks ago held at the Margules factory, very nice of him, a record that was brought in that was processed prior with a vacuum cleaning system saw these results: Before Kirmuss; kzbin.info-L2gIqQ3nok After Kirmuss: kzbin.info_6_fhGWMBjM

[@kirmussaudio7578]

​@@ghn5ue336we have done this in front if a Patent Inspector. Bring us a record to restore at any of our trade show appearances. We do full A B before and after record auditioning, with spectrum analyzer in tow. It us fun to restore records previously cleaned by all other peer processes.

[@TheAgeOfAnalog]

I wonder if LAST is/was basically just Rain-X?

[@TheAgeOfAnalog]

Just got my system today. I’ve watched probably a dozen video on this, so I’m pretty sure I’m going it all correctly, but I’m getting HORRENDOUS static on my records. Never had this problem before with any other method. Any ideas? I no longer have a ZeroStat, because my first one lasted 25 years and the second one died a month past its warranty period, so I’m not buying another one.

[@LetsCleanaRecord]

By new system, are you referring to the Kirmuss machine and process? If so, that last step of putting a goat hair brush that was LIGHTLY misted with the compound across the record should eliminate all static. Have you tried that? I have never had a static problem even in the dead of winter with this approach. Zerostats can help but I find the Kirmuss approach to be superior. Another product that helps with static is a light application of LAST's All Purpose Record Cleaner. With their tiny brush, you're not really cleaning much, but it can help with static. Again, I prefer a Kirmuss goat hair brush and compound spray.

[@TheAgeOfAnalog]

@@LetsCleanaRecord yes and yes 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@LetsCleanaRecord]

@@TheAgeOfAnalog Dang, that's a puzzle. Any chance it's coming through the system and not just normal air static? A grounding issue maybe??? May I ask, do you live in a particularly dry environment?

[@TheAgeOfAnalog]

@@LetsCleanaRecord no, and I don’t normally have a static issue. I feel like maybe the wiping with the optical cloth was the problem. I’ll skip that step next time

[@TheAgeOfAnalog]

@@LetsCleanaRecord tried it again today. I think maybe I got a little too aggressive with the jewelers cloth. Much better results this time.

[@pnichols6500]

If the record still sounds great, I'd say the LAST product was doing its job, why remove it?

[@LetsCleanaRecord]

Good question! Normally, I would not remove it, but it served as an excellent example of a treatment that is difficult to remove. Like the film left behind from a previous cleaning...on steroids. I'm thinking we may cover LAST products in a future video, if they're still in business???

[@pnichols6500]

@@LetsCleanaRecord They are, and I recently started using the Preservative on my records and they claim it will play up to 200 times on one treatment without any vinyl wear. The improvements in clarity and transparency are noticeable. Since I just treated a bunch of expensive vinyl, your video gave me pause! I would be interested in your take on it, there is another reviewer with very premium equipment that sold me on it.

[@kirmussaudio7578]

We see and hear a 3 to 4dB gain in signal over floor and upwards of 6 to 12 % increase in frequency response when we remove it. Read other posts where folks see the needle "eating away" the protectant. . Fremer has proven that records do not need a protectant against wear and tear.

[@revelry1969]

I noticed you been calling it surfactant. But I am not thinking Kirmuss calls it that. There was some controversy about this a while back

[@LetsCleanaRecord]

Thanks for that. I wasn't sure what to call it. Will look into the controversy.

[@robertgadwood7095]

Ethylene glycol (if that is what is really in the spray) is a strong solvent, not a surfactant. I suspect that this is leaching something out of the vinyl. Probably plasticizer.

[@revelry1969]

Mr Kirmuss needs to respond. It’s not a strong solvent

[@revelry1969]

@@robertgadwood7095 not ethylene glycol

[@revelry1969]

Propylene glycol

[@davepounds8924]

I personally would not use any isopropyl alcohol when cleaning records Distilled water is enough

[@kirmussaudio7578]

The small percentage of IPS, 70% IS NOT USED TO CLEAN THE RECORD! It is used to kill the fungus that is live or doat that comes off record, very bad for your health. The % of 1.4 ounces of 70% IPA is record safe in 1.78 gallons of water. Always heed our instructions. One can get very ill if you inhale the live or dormant as you process records. When using other systems, wear a mask as they not kill the fungal elements. YES, Most other solutions sold are high in alcohol, no no's for PVC. As a word of caution, never use anything on a record unless there is an ingredients list for the contents of the solution and compare the ingredient if listed with the PVC and plasticizer chemical compatibility chart to see if they are record friendly!

[@kirmussaudio7578]

Added, both water and the record both have the same electrical charge per the Tribelectric table of charges. Understandably the science predicates changing the charge of the record to be opposite to that of water to attract the effects of ultrasonic cavitation.

[@JWD1992]

I guess it wasn't the last treatment after all! Sorry, had to do it. Definitely a great test of the Kirmuss considering the idea behind LAST (at least as I understand it) is to deliberately leave a film, albeit a protective one. And '39 is a great track. Sci-fi in disguise. You'd think the narrator was just sailing across the ocean if you didn't follow the lyrics closely.

[@kirmussaudio7578]

The last step by misting the goat hair brush at arm's length all the while moving the brush though the mist sees the charge applied to the brush, but where the brush is in fact dry. It then applies a charge to the record to repel dust.

[@JWD1992]

@@kirmussaudio7578 I was referring to the old "LAST Record Preservative" he was removing.

[@kirmussaudio7578]

@johndennis6449 LAST purported to change the molecular structure of plastic. We among others proved it was a coating that your needle was digging out.

[@jonnymoka]

You sound like you have a media personality

[@automatedelectronics6062]

Why didn't you check the record under the microscope AFTER you cleaned it? What are you hiding?

[@LetsCleanaRecord]

Oversight!

[@krwd]

Folks, check out ISONIC they make the Kirmus and the Isonic is several hundred less too

[@kirmussaudio7578]

Most respectfully, I-Sonic does not make the Kirmuss. I-Sonic is a distributor of dental and jewelry cleaning equipment made in China by Codyson. A Chinese DIY company created the rotisserie style adapter that is used. I will not comment further. For your edification, Codyson in Shenzhen China is the largest global manufacturer of quality ultrasonic cleaning machines. I buy as reported by Fremer as well as does I-Sonic the machine from Codyson. That is where we stop. I am a pretty smart engineer and used a design made by Cosyson and have added the 70Khz passive resonance to the 35Khz base ultrasonic at my factory in China, not that of Codyson and certainly not by dental cleaning distributor I-Sonic. Thus after 11 years of continuous study on records, using a $178,000 Keyence VHX-7000 2D 3D microscope and a thermal vacuum chamber to accelerate aging of records and spectrum analyzers to prove my claims as well as study how other processes negatively affect records. Results that still to this day cannot be refuted. I certainly do not have the funds to develop and improve already an excellent base design made my a leading global manufacturer, rather, make changes to a proven reliable design as well as introduce the use of record ionization in my patented process to change the charge of the record to be opposite to that of water to attract the effects of cavitation. Codyson in fact has stated where the Kirmuss process is a record groove restoration system and not a surface cleaner as is the I-Sonic machine with the DIY skewered assembly. I can share this email on request. Respectfully, neither does I-Sonic make an ultrasonic let alone make the Kirmuss KA RC 1 and own my intellectual property. Using a cavitation meter on the isonic skewered record system sees no even cavitation, where the chemical used as a cleaning agent as discovered by Fremer is not pvc healthy and the best testament to the Kirmuss intellectual property is where Kirmuss processed records come out virtually dry, not with I-Sonic needing spinning the record to remove water. Or tons of Kim wipes to dry the sheets of cleaning agent left on the record. The Tribelectric table of charges supports my intellectual property as restored plastic repels water. Our host knows this. Further, bring at a show as to proof of my reply a record processed by any other process or machine. We guarantee in writing the gain in signal over floor as well as increase in frequency response. There is lots of misinformation out there as there is very little published on the Tribelectric table of charges, record production and plastics and where in this hobby few manufacturers use science to either develop products and as such create shiny records which do little to allow the needle to make full contact with the detail of the record as pressed. Isonic is not as demonstrated not an expert in record production, conservancy or guarantees in writing any gain in signal or frequency response or a processed record. Sorry to be wordy but misrepresentation of facts should be clarified by the host. Hope I clarified matters for you. There are many reviews and testimonials that abound globally on what the Kirmuss Process accomplishes as to restoration of record grooves and not surface shining. Visit Fremer's TrackingAngle.com and tge review of the 2023 International Florida International Audio Expo where Fremer recorded the presentation of both JR Boisclair of Wally Tools and myself demystifying record care etc.. also a review may be found on the KirmussAudio KZbin channel.