Part One: Rudolf Steiner: Racist Invented Organic Farming and Waldorf Schools | BEHIND THE BASTARDS

[@yakovgolyadkin]

As someone who went to a Waldorf school as a kid, whose medicine as a child was often in the form of tiny white sugar pills, and who was required to go to eurythmy classes after school, this episode is really fucking with my head. I think I need to talk to my parents about some things...

[@nzarzecki]

You and me both...

[@nothingworksworks3511]

Depending upon attendance, not all waldorf schools can keep Steiner trained teachers. Also they aren't so "cultY" w the $tudent$ if there's low attendance. This explains why some kids at some schools during SOME eras weren't as traumatised by the steniner/waldorf cult

[@notinspectorgadget]

24:01 This might be the most aggressive *"what?!"* response to an ad pivot iv ever heard on this podcast.

[@amberpechin9594]

20:21 not to be that commenter- but the gold plates smith found weren’t blown up- they were “taken back into heaven by an Angel for safekeeping.” Also, those gold plates (that became the Book of Mormon) actually explicitly say polygamy isn’t good. It was another Angel who revealed to Joseph that polygamy was now super cool with god- and not only good but a requirement to get into heaven. Joseph didn’t want to do it- but the Angel had a flaming sword and said he’d kill him if he didn’t start sending men in missions and marrying their wives and daughters. The “real” story is so much better than you’d expect people to believe! I can’t wait for a behind the bastards on Joseph smith- or even better- brigham young. Happy to help with research and cliffs notes if the history!

[@MorganRhysGibbons]

Active LDS anarchosocialist here and can generally confirm this comment. Also- the 14-year old story is _very_ unreliable and suspect, there's only one source that indicates any kind of romantic involvement, and none sexual, as you'll see. anyway love your podcast, as well as It Could Happen Here. Keep up the great work.

[@M_M_ODonnell]

@@MorganRhysGibbons How does rejection of hierarchy work with divine command of authoritarian hierarchy?

[@MorganRhysGibbons]

@@M_M_ODonnell It doesn't? False premise. The Divine is egalitarian. "Would that all the saints be prophets", as Joseph Smith stated. Who is telling you that you need to participate in an authoritarian hierarchy? Don't do it, bro.

[@M_M_ODonnell]

@@MorganRhysGibbons How long ago were you disfellowshipped for not participating in the church hierarchy? (Going to set aside defense/near-deification of reactionary nationalist racist assholes for now, but it's also profoundly anti-anarchist.)

[@TheybyBaby-c9m]

​@@MorganRhysGibbons, how does rejection of hierarchy work with the whole "holding the priesthood" thing, and the fact that women can't hold it? Your belief system seems a bit wacky, homie.

[@KYurbanHOMESTEADINg]

He invented biodynamic agriculture not "organic farming" - Biodynamic does weird stuff with ram horns and manure, organic farming is just farming without toxic chemicals. Kind of an important distinction to make.

[@JustLilGecko]

Yep there's a world of difference there. Being biodynamic inherently means it's also organic because the wild requirements for biodynamic farming are even more restrictive about what needs to happen to grow/keep veg. Or... Biodynamic farms are within the category of organic farming, which is within the category of farming.

[@What-lt3lj]

Organic farming uses incredibly toxic chemicals and often uses more of them. It just doesn't use *artificially created* chemicals. Edit: an example of an organic pesticide is copper sulfide, which is in fact toxic.

[@josh2388]

Both hugelculture and permaculture originates in biodynamic farming. The creator even credits Steiner.

[@KYurbanHOMESTEADINg]

You still didn't mention organic farming which is what is referenced in this video. Organic famers simply grow food the way it was grown before industrial-style agriculture. They provide a healthy alternative to crops sprayed with pesticides and supermarket shelves laden with GMO fruit@@josh2388 , but by all means lump them in with Steiner's lot. Mollison's Permaculture doesn't draw heavily if at all on Steiner's work, though it may be mentioned in passing.

[@CliffSedge-nu5fv]

"Organic" farming is worse than conventional farming in every way. It is less efficient, more environmentally damaging, and more expensive. It uses plenty of toxic chemicals. "Natural" versus "Artificial" is an artificial distinction. There is nothing better or safer about not being synthetic. The naturalistic fallacy is an easy way to scam people. "Organic" is through and through a scam that only causes harm.

[@ClockFink]

I just wanna note I’d never heard of Justin Theroux, so my brain derped and thought you were talking about Justin Trudeau, which then caused a mind blow and frantic google search when you mention Justin and Jennifer Aniston dating (which cleared up my confusion). It was a very startling experience for a minute though

[@DeadManSinging1]

Interestingly enough, Justin Theroux is actually a first cousin of documentarian Louis Theroux

[@boogerparty]

I was sitting here wondering what they had against the Walden guy.

[@victoriaeads6126]

Aaand... His family lives very close by my house. Every once in awhile I see someone driving down the lane that looks like Justin, but I'm never quite sure because he's got a brother and they look similar when you're just driving past another car on the road. Eh. It's a mildly interesting fact about the area, but the only thing people said when we moved here was that we might see Jennifer because they were married for about five minutes.

[@reysawareness]

The best part of this show is you reading Steiner quotes.

[@Mechanicallifts]

Well There’s Your Problem/Behind the Bastard crossover episode!? What a wonderful Valentine’s Day gift

[@g.m.9180]

No, the guest is Chris Crofton. That made me look him up and his KZbin channel is actually extremely funny, I subscribed! I wish behind the bastards collaborated with Well there's your problem too though

[@FakeSchrodingersCat]

That would be good though. They could talk about Albert Speer.

[@machinesbreathe]

I listen to both podcasts, and I fully endorse this proposal. But they have to both agree to do it with pictures.

[@berrim26]

Earth Science isn't (typically) some woo thing, it's what we call the segment that teaches geology and the like. At least, in the United States.

[@notreallyhere67]

Yeah, I had an earth science class in high school in the US and it was about geology and other actual Earth-related sciences. Nothing about some woo crystal study or something lol

[@janiealexander9450]

​@notreallyhere67 Earth science classes (in U.S. high schools) are exoteric studies (dealing with the material/physical world). Steiner teachings are instead esoteric (dealing with insights of the spiritually penetrated world of matter), which the general population is unfamiliar with at this stage of human development.

[@Fliss317]

Oh I have to listen to this, I went to a Steiner School in the 1990s in Scotland. Was a very strange place.

[@mojonojo3]

Scotland was indeed a strange place in the 90s

[@TheWinterscoming]

People now: "Oh I'm so cooked, I thought 'F' when my friend told me his grandpa died" People then: "Well why would he lie about the library only he can read that contains all knowledge of the past and future?"

[@stevetheripper]

I'm from Luxembourg, went to a Waldorf school. Very hippy, can confirm the medical woo and racism, would add homophobia. Never heard of Anthroposophy so thanks, make me laugh 😀

[@mmccrownus2406]

Sounds based. Have to look into it.

[@josh2388]

No one’s afraid of gays. Just disgusted.

[@DeadManSinging1]

@@mmccrownus2406 hurr its cool too be racist bro durr i definitely don't crave attention hurr

[@nothingworksworks3511]

Crzy how you never heard of anthroposophy but attended a waldorf school? Tho the cultY teachings are mostly covert.

[@stevetheripper]

@@nothingworksworks3511 you know, now that you mention it, maybe I did? My schooling was in German and Luxembourgish, and I have tried my best to forget the woo as it's a major hindrance to being an engineer. But yeah, a lot of the "philosophy" was discussed as just being it/the reason/reality, we did very little analysis.

[@longshotkdb]

Damn, I went to Steiner. I have autism and they really treated me well, leaning towards art and music. I just thought they were rich hippie's, but I also felt something was badly wrong. Now I feel stupid and a wee bit guilty... Also we all failed our exams because the curriculum was fucked. Frankly. Is it ridiculous to apologize? Sorry. *I went because the regular high school expelled me, for being autistic... Such is life I suppose.

[@tysonasaurus6392]

20:12 actually yeah, Mormonism has more in common with Theosophy than one might think, the Akashic Records is functionally not too different from Mormonism's Personal Revelation and the Holy Ghost, both leaders used a lot of similar tactics to swindle and exploit their followers, both religions sprung out of similar conditions and appealed to similar interests and trends at the time, and they have a bunch of similarities in their lore, like the syncretism and the weird race stuff

[@user-te5po4bu8o]

lol my former boss was super into this stuff, this ought to be good

[@punchincorporated]

SAME wow

[@mojonojo3]

Clickbait - Steiner invented biodinamic farming not organic.

[@nothingworksworks3511]

Yeah, like putting a seed in your mouth to put your spirit into it, 🙄🤨

[@haltorn2611]

That really bugged me, as biodinamy has nothing to do with organic and is fully apart from any scientific approach

[@Charlies_Little_Corner]

20:14 this section is so interesting if you listen to it with the stories of professional catholic exorcists in mind. I guess it wouldn't be farfetched from that frame of Interpretation to see Blavatsky, Steiner and the likes of being not only obsessed with, but actually possessed by demons. Which is why this kind of "secret knowledge" is so similar to Alistair Crowley and the satanic crowd. They all wanted to tap into unearned wisdom, and so they summoned the powers that be. Not really surprising that this all built the basis for esoteric nazi-ism. Hitler himself once said "he was there again", referring to a demon or Satan himself.

[@DeadManSinging1]

There was a Steiner school in my home town. After suffering appallingly through my first few grades of school, my parents decided to take me out of the mainstream education system. They were interested in Montessori, but were open to Waldorf education because they didnt know much about it. We checked out the school and after the horror show that was the orientation, it became clear to my parents that it wasn't a school - It was a cult. They enrolled me in a Montessori school the next day. Also, I found out years later from a friend who went to that school that one of the teachers had an affair with a student, then after they were fired, they were rehired as the school janitor! No charges were ever made as the girls parents were new age nutters who bought all this shit 100%

[@mikeschenk4730]

Wonderful rant towards the end. Completely justified.

[@foundersolaris]

you know, I think if you have a spiritual epiphany and become rudolf steiner, you were probably a bad person to begin with.

[@BriarLeaf00]

Part 2! Part 2!

[@steveanton763]

Did you go you to a Steiner school?

[@mysticrealness]

if you think Steiner is racist it's either because you didn't actually read him or because you don't understand what that word means

[@reysawareness]

True

[@yourdad6902]

Man everyone was racist back then you really can't say he isn't racist

[@yourdad6902]

Oh and root races is definitely racist compared to anyone today genius there's no such thing as human races only one

[@mysticrealness]

@@yourdad6902 "root races" refers to period of time in human evolution, not race as we think of today. Steiner for the most part did not use "root races" but "epochs" in his writing, exactly for the reason that it could be misconstrued as a racial thing

[@yourdad6902]

@@mysticrealness except for the part where he specifically said races are bad because they are this and that you ignore them whitewashing his racist opinions on indigenous people he was a racist his ideas were racist

[@LadyJanie]

I can see where joseph smith got his ideas now for mormonism... so close to their teachings

[@Mrs.Roseonlinetutor]

Joseph Smith was born 1805-1844 and Rudolf Steiner was born 1861-1925

[@bmwkmx1]

You gotta have this guy on again to co-host!!

[@arielamejeiras8677]

'Antisemitic' has a whole different ring in 2024, during the Gaza genocide. Maybe Steiner was aware of something back then?

[@pssurvivor]

annie besant was heavily involved in teh indian independence movement and the indian theosophical society

[@rustkitty]

I always assumed the Akashic records were one of those ancient concepts new age weirdos appropriated from an actual religion, but now I find out it's entirely a Theosophic invention! (they just stole the Sanskrit word that means sky for orientalist cred, I guess) This is the Black Sun situation all over again! I thought that was an old Germanic symbol until last year when I learned that it's made up by Himmler's crew on another episode of this show...

[@fon420]

NEW CANAAN?? my family lives there, i would go there ocnstantly when i lived in ct. i lived and grew up in the northwest corner. that's the poor asf area of the state, for those unaware. one of two counties that went red for the trump v biden election

[@Limonman1312]

Oh man I had the misfortune of going to one of these schools. It was good at first, till I realized the shit it had down to me

[@knitwit014]

L. Frank Baum, a theosophist, wrote The Wizard of Oz.

[@josef2012]

If you actually study Steiner's work,you would see he has no racism.Anthroposophy is just Westernized Hinduism, basically.Read the actual material before judging based on what otheres have "heard." 🙏💗

[@Limonman1312]

I have read the material and theory, been through all 15 grades of the school, and taught for a time. Anthroposophy is just orientalist race science trying to pass of as a liberal ideal, and educated people defending it are obviously in some stage of denial

[@ArjunaStone]

Cool. A video about Rudolf Steiner, produced by people who have never read a single word of his work.

[@Limonman1312]

Well I have, and I’ve been through the schools. These guys are 99% correct

[@ArjunaStone]

@@Limonman1312 I doubt it, but still just one person's opinion, if true. More likely the problem is with you, not the Waldorf Schools. Anyone who has actually studied Rudolf Steiner knows this is paid anti-occult propaganda.

[@Limonman1312]

@@ArjunaStone I’ve been to Waldorf schools for 15 years don’t tell me I don’t know anything about them..

[@ArjunaStone]

@@Limonman1312 Any anonymous person on KZbin can make that claim. Even if true, one person's anomalous experience doesn't prove anything about Waldorf Schools in general. Either the school with which you were associated was poorly administered, which isn't unheard of, or you were not attuned to the curriculum. Not everyone is ready for it. Why would anyone stay in a place they hate for 15 years? If you were being coerced, that might explain some of your resentment.

[@Limonman1312]

@@ArjunaStone crazy parents. And the education was of a uniquely low quality, plus the kids were racist and homophobic

[@tonyhundo8702]

This podcast is full of so many inaccuracies about Rudolph Steiner and Waldorf schools, I don't even know where to begin.

[@Limonman1312]

I have the lived experience of Waldorf, can confirm this episode is almost all accurate

[@colouredtv7407]

He was not a racist.

[@DeadManSinging1]

He was an ariostocratic Austrian man from the early 20th century who was in the same secret societies that predated the Nazi Party, such as the Thule Society. He was definitely a racist

[@nickgarrity764]

You fools couldn’t hold a conversation with Rudy let alone a candle to him.

[@paramedivmso4]

Boy, did you guys get this wrong. The nazis actually tried to assassinate Steiner via poisoning. He was not a racist. And his schools are not for only rich, or privileged. I have read hundreds of his books, if not a thousand. After you have reached that pinnacle, come back and re-make this video. The lips of wisdom are closed except to the ears of understanding.

[@paramedivmso4]

@@knitwit014 Yes. The first Goetheanum was set fire and burned down deliberately. The modern day shadow ban and smearing

[@yourdad6902]

He was racist just not to their degree

[@yourdad6902]

He was racist youre just in denial you didnt read a singke one of his theory did you

[@Limonman1312]

Although the nazis didn’t like them, they appropriated much of the anthroposophists race science.

[@yourdad6902]

@@Limonman1312 doesn't matter race science isn't real troglodyte

[@josh2388]

Steiner disagreed with Krishnamurti as the 2nd coming because he claimed Christ’s 2nd coming was etheric, not physical (as the Bible says, Christ will return ‘in the clouds’). Also, he felt the western world needed to go their own way, and not copy the east. He predicted the rise of guru culture and yoga mats in the west, and he claimed it would stunt the westerner’s spiritual development (Hard to argue that). In summary, It was about east vs west, not skin color.

[@bullterror5]

Well they've gone off and created a fake Armageddon now, so....

[@0statement]

Best educate yourself before trying to educate others. You clearly have no idea what Steiner was about

[@Limonman1312]

I do and these guys aren’t wrong

[@DdubDeCree]

This podcast should be renamed “Presentism”. Funny how the guest and host claim special knowledge of what is considered “normal” or “weird”. The guest has some hang up for “rich” people. Can I now coin the term “PWM”, people with money? The is quite easily convinced of the evilness of Rudolph Steiner. Most of the comments made here say so much about the podcaster and guest, and not much about anthroposophy or Rudolph Steiner.

[@1992heb]

Such an uneducated episode. Many inaccuracies, low effort speculation, and a general ignorance of history. Very disappointed

[@yourdad6902]

Boohoo you mad that the laymen people just talking over a topic not in depth isn't 100% factual oh my god did you also get pressed at him being said to be a racist and his idea inspiring racists

[@yourdad6902]

And also theyre literally using gis lectures troglodyte why do you need to lie

[@chuckjones9159]

Guys, why do you think he is racist? I hope to God its not because he speaks about Root Races. If so then you just do not understand what he is talking about. I will add however that many in the past have taken his works as well as other works on mysticism and applied them in ways that were never intended. The third Reich took the works of Blavatsky, Steiner, Gurdjeff and Bardon and interpreted them to fit their own narratives.

[@Limonman1312]

You might want to reconsider your ideology if the the third reich took advantage of it. And yes, the idea of root races in a hierarchy, even if an individual can “ascend” through them, is inherently racist

[@chuckjones9159]

@@Limonman1312 Hi. Thats not what the root races represent. There is no "ascending" through them. Each of the former root races is simply an ancestor race. There is no hierarchy except for the chronological one. Each root race has had its purpose with the current one, the Aryan, having the goal of the full development of the rational mind. Now, when I say Aryan I am not speaking in the same sense as how Germany meant it. Most of the people on earth are of the Aryan root race regardless of ethnicity or skin color. The only possible remnants from earlier roots races are mainly confined to small tribes cut off from civilization for long periods of time and represents less than one percent of the global population. By your thinking one should abandon potential truth because most people tend to not understand how it is meant to be taken.

[@Limonman1312]

@@chuckjones9159 you do realize what your saying? A current master race, no matter what vast majority of the population it represents, is a reactionary and borderline fascistic idea

[@Limonman1312]

@@chuckjones9159 you can’t make this hit up x

[@josh2388]

Stick to chewing tobacco to stay away from spiritual realm? Steiner literally used snuff on a daily basis.

[@wrincht1]

Nice bit of race grifting there (who else listens to your stuff?), entirely understandable why you wouldn’t be interested in Steiner’s epistemological writings - to do so would require thinking, leaving behind one’s leftist prejudices (the Nazis appeal to you …because they are your shadow) not something on the evidence here you’d want to do. It’s sad, all the freedom to learn, understand, think the internet gives …and we get this ignorant, ideological hate-filled spiel. Well that’s the necessary correlate to freedom - people must learn to think for themselves, absent that we get this.

[@Limonman1312]

Bro calling the antifascist hateful while defending the Nazi.

[@wrincht1]

@@Limonman1312 ever heard of splitting?

[@Limonman1312]

@@wrincht1 you mean the psychological effect?

[@wrincht1]

@@Limonman1312 it's a cluster B trait, born of damaged childhood attachment, that causes black and white thinking. People with it project out their negative character, their shadow, onto others and accuse them of what they have. It's why the left see racism, misognyy etc everywhere. It's why this podcaster sees Steiner in the split way he does.

[@Limonman1312]

Don’t pretend you know anything about the schools if you’ve never been put through them