Interview with Schiit Audio - Part 2: How can Schiit compete with China?

Part 2 of an interview with Jason Stoddard from Schiit Audio where we discuss how Schiit can compete with brands like Topping and SMSL, why the Magnius single-ended performance isn't as good as a cheaper amp like the Heresy, and why the power switches are on the back of Schiit products!
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[@jayl5941]

This interview series is great. I really reapect Jason and what this company is doing. Thanks for putting it together.

[@PassionforSound]

You're welcome. 2 more to come, starting tomorrow.

[@wesspangler]

I am a happy Texan, knowing Schiit is gonna be in Texas!

[@PassionforSound]

Texas is maybe going to get a bit Schiity!

[@wesspangler]

@@PassionforSound I sure do hope so!

[@heybrook819]

I am willing to pay more to support the local U.S. products.

[@pickletired6104]

You are just really asking all the right questions! Superb part 2 and waiting for the next ones!

[@PassionforSound]

Thanks Pickle! I put a lot of thought into these interviews so I'm glad it's time well spent!

[@pickletired6104]

@@PassionforSound Absolutely well spent, I hope lot's of audiophiles discover this soon, and your channel will skyrocket how it also should.:) Thanks for the content.

[@ChicagoRob2]

Schiit products offer incredible value. I’m running the Modi/Magni 3+ and the sound quality is amazing. Best purchase I’ve ever made in my 50 years of being an audiophile.

[@PassionforSound]

Very true, Robert!

[@photoipster]

Note respecting the question re US vs Chi Fi. I am an intellectual property attorney, and have travelled to China 40+ times for work. I will try to make this apolitical. Without commenting on Chinese companies, the Chinese government is actively and regularly involved in stealing intellectual property from American companies. Even worse, over 100 American companies per year are purchased by shell corps set up by the Chinese government. They are funded well, while the shell corporation learns everything they can about an area of technology. Then, when they have learned everything they need, they gut and bankrupt the American company. The US government is completely aware of the practice, but from a political standpoint, it is simply too small for them to get involved. Now, I am not a US only buyer. I will buy products from Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam, etc. But, I strongly prefer to support companies that respect intellectual property, and have ethical practices with respect to employees.

[@PassionforSound]

Thanks for the information, Jim. That's sad to hear ☹️

[@timbre7999]

Jason is funny in being 'stubborn' as he puts it himself but also right; putting the AC power interruption-switch right next to where the AC comes in prevents possible added 50/60 Hz AC pollution (PCB AC traces are unshielded after all). So thanks Jason for keeping 'em at the back.

[@zounds13]

That's all well and good, but couldn't you at least locate the switches OUTBOARD of the power plugs? Then they would be easy to reach from the side. I love my Schiit products, and I have a bunch of them, but this level of bloody-mindedness is annoying and borderline offensive. Do you really think it's a good idea to annoy your customers and potential customers like that, Jason?

[@christianr9549]

i bought the magnius and remember your review talking about the lower quality sound from the single ended output. So hearing Jason talk about the why, makes so much sense! and even though I have to now upgrade to balanced wiring, i'm stoked. Thanks for this!

[@PassionforSound]

Glad it was helpful! I liked that he put the performance difference into context too when many of the measurementphiles were up in arms about its 'dreadful' performance which is really not so bad when it comes to its subjective sound quality

[@ocramidajzj]

Really fantastic series that prompted me to subscribe. Excellent points made about how customers/reviewers don't understand the ripple effect one decision can have across a platformed family of products and how costs can escalate VERY quickly when one off changes can mess with efficiency in manufacturing, parts, supply chain etc.

[@PassionforSound]

Thank you for subbing! Glad you enjoyed the interview

[@StephenCaudillPhoto]

US -made whenever possible. Big selling point with Schiit. Had a Valhalla 2 for years and (soon to ship please oh please) Modius is on the way. Love that warm glowy Valhalla.

[@PassionforSound]

Nice! The Modius is great! Enjoy your new toy 🙂

[@dykatran]

I'm using the Asgard 3 and my headphone is ATH-R70x. This combo is just perfect.

[@PassionforSound]

I don't know the R70x, but the Asgard 3 has really won me over.

[@jon4715]

I just picked up some ATH-R70's too. Deciding between the Asgard 3 and Jotunheim 2. The Jot's pre-amp capabilities will probably win me over.

[@PassionforSound]

Hi Jon, Asgard 3 is a pre-amp too. It auto switches from headphone out to pre-amp out when the headphones are disconnected. That said, I'm expecting the Jot 2 to be outstanding so I'm not saying you shouldn't get it, just making sure you can make a fully informed decision.

[@jon4715]

@@PassionforSound Yes, I knew about the auto switch, I just prefer the control of having a front switch. Maybe the Asgard 3 sounds better though...hoping to see you review the Jot 2 (se and bal).

[@PassionforSound]

Oh cool. Yeah, front switch is nice so you can leave your cans connected. Hoping to get the Jot 2 soon...

[@phillipnunya6793]

Schiit's policy, business, design, and pricing decisions all factor into them being my preference. Nice to see a company stay local with good prices and products that don't pander to a party that I don't like much. Pretty uncommon.

[@PassionforSound]

I agree! Glad you're supporting them 🙂

[@scottharris9318]

It was good listening to this interview a second time. It was funny to hear Jason joke that they only sold five Mjolnirs. I recently snagged a C Stock Mjolnir from Schiit Audio. I couldn’t believe my luck when I saw it on their deal list. I bought a Jotunheim for my desk a few years ago and that drove me to get balanced cables for my headphones. Now I don’t want anything that’s single ended. I’m sure glad they had parts to build a few more Mjolnirs in 2021.

[@PassionforSound]

Glad you liked the interview and even more glad that you got yourself a Mjolnir. Enjoy!

[@bigjt37]

This is great. I'll be excited to see it (the next one). I def can't get enough of Jason talking their thoughts through the past, present, and to come. Hopefully the 3rd one won't be too much gap before its release haha but I get you've got other products to get out. Good interview 😃👌🏼

[@PassionforSound]

Thanks Joshua. Next week is beyerdynamic week (starting Wednesday Aus time) so no interview, but it's back the week after.

[@bigjt37]

@@PassionforSound oh okay sounds good..

[@balldrips]

Agreed. I love hearing this information from the creators.

[@LakerTriangle]

Made in USA matters to me and one of the reasons I have a room full of Schiit products.

[@Assimilator702]

Yep. I buy the Magni and Modi gear like a monthly magazine. It’s released.....I buy it. The price/performance ratio is astronomical. I have a considerable drum gear habit so Schiit as a company has saved the audio gear loving side of me. And I’ve ALWAYS supported Made In USA amps coming from a car audio background where the 90’s had California as a Mecca for amplifier manufacturers.

[@LakerTriangle]

@@Assimilator702 yeah I come from 90's car audio too..It was a boom that got a lot of people into audio and trying crazy things.

[@Assimilator702]

@@LakerTriangle It was the fabrication aspect that got me hooked. Quality sound in the beginning of course. But the initial impetus or the moment when most of us notice car audio is the boom systems. I’ve been an installer for more than 15 years now. Headphone audio is my escape from daily grind. I’m actually glad I never became a gynecologist. 😬

[@PassionforSound]

I cut my teeth in car audio too in the late 90s / early 2000s. That was a fun time!

[@KindredGh0st]

Same. I have a Modius and Magnius. I'm thinking about getting the Lokius, but I just got into this hobby and admit I have no idea what I'm doing.

[@jasonkim6606]

Looking forward to see your yggdrasil A2 Unison review if possible. I heard that the flagship dac sounds amazing.

[@PassionforSound]

I hope to have the chance one day, but not sure if Schiit will want to send a review unit all this way (understandably) - we'll see.

[@forrestp33]

Schiit products are just wonderful for headphones. I have the Vali 2 with the Modi Mutibit and the Magni 3 Heresy with the Modi 3 (black) they are wonderful driving the 6xx. They blow all of my other headphones out of the water.

[@PassionforSound]

They do make some great products. I have to admit that I'm not a major fan of the Jotunheim or Heresy, but lots of their gear is wonderful! I've got the Asgard 3 up for review soon.

[@jordanfish]

Can’t wait to see the next installments!

[@PassionforSound]

Final part drops this week!

[@hydroaegis6658]

Made in USA and Iike the aesthetics. Also helps that everything sounds good. Moving to Texas will make them closer to me so cheaper shipping would be nice.

[@PassionforSound]

Glad you're enjoying your Schiit!

[@OptLab]

I prefer matt finish or dark metal personally.

[@mtnmankeith9069]

I’m looking forward to the Asgard 3 review. Such a great amp for the money.

[@PassionforSound]

It's on my desk, staring at me every day. Can't recall where I have it in the schedule, but it's in the queue! 🙂

[@darthdurkelthewise320]

Schiit is not perfect and they’ve had some bumps along the way. However, I’ve used their stuff from the beginning. My MANI is still running strong over 11 years later and I imagine my Bifrost 2 will do the same if I wanted to use it that long before I get the upgrade bug. I like that it’s made right here in the U.S. and I like that stubbornness keeps the power switch on the back. It’s never bothered me. Schiit is on a roll right now and offer a unique line that performs right there with just about anything if not better on many occasions. Great interview with real questions. 👍🏻

[@PassionforSound]

Glad you liked the interview. I agree that they're on a huge roll at the moment

[@allanwilmath8226]

I was happy to buy my two Schiit products because they were made in America and that the best parts are used. For instance, I have a nice pair of older active speakers that have a terrible noise issue that probably due to the use of cheap electrolytic capacitors. I'm happy too spend extra for something that is better built, sounds better, and is going to last.

[@gregwx]

I'm from Mexico and there is a huge influx of chinese product due its accesible prices... however people doesn't quite understand how good the Value offer is from US audio makers like Schiit. I keep reading over and over chinese amps with severe QC issues, ones that stop working all of the sudden, heck even a guy who got shock by its DAC powersupply had a short with the case. Fortunately some schiit products in Mexico are available via Amazon US,. hope the bring more people start to realize you pay more for a cheapo amp that blows than a solid product that for a couple of bucks gives you peace of mind and reliability.

[@PassionforSound]

Really good point, Greg!

[@johnsoriano3812]

quite eye opening. Thanks for this video

[@PassionforSound]

You're welcome, John!

[@francoisrochette3808]

Can someone explain to me what was wrong with the regular Magni 3 ? I have it connect to the RCA of a CD player and used it with HD 600 and it sounds great.

[@PassionforSound]

Hi François, absolutely nothing! I think from what Jason said, they revisited it because it was getting smashed by the "measurements are everything" crowd

[@francoisrochette3808]

@@PassionforSound thanks for the answer. As Jason said in the part 1 of your interviews some amplifiers sounds good and measured not so well and some others measured well and sounds bad. So I m right to say with Heresy I will only get a different flavor of sound over the the Magni 3 ?

[@PassionforSound]

100%! Different, not better/worse necessarily

[@francoisrochette3808]

@@PassionforSound How would you describe the difference in sound between Magni 3 (not plus) and heresy ?

[@jasonme3557]

Its matters and I think this is great. I really hope you can keep this going. Are you related to Tru-Technology

[@PassionforSound]

I'm not related to Tru-Technology 🙂 Glad you liked this interview!

[@jasonme3557]

@@PassionforSound Cool just order a nice DAC. The amp will after the new year

[@PassionforSound]

Great! Enjoy 🙂🙂

[@IHearEverythingDude]

Thanks for vid again. One more thing have you already tried BNC cables with ferrites between the m scaler and the TT2, or you are using standard chord bnc cables ?

[@PassionforSound]

You're welcome. So far using the stock cables, but I have some Wave cables on the way...

[@IHearEverythingDude]

@@PassionforSound So with the wave cables you will hear full potential of the m scaler. For me they are mandatory to pair with mscaler.

[@PassionforSound]

I'm excited to try them

[@johnthomasmoulton8934]

Noble Audio left California and moved to Texas in 2018.

[@PassionforSound]

Yes, you did 😉 (if I'm remembering names correctly)

[@enzotibirica8458]

Very interesting. The face to face approach Schiit has with their costumers probably help their sales a lot He is just too cool and relatable

[@PassionforSound]

Nothing like buying from good people!

[@happypuppy8221]

We need to support USA quality made products.

[@PassionforSound]

That's probably true for those living in the USA 🙂

[@changhwalee6395]

thanks for the vid again!

[@PassionforSound]

My pleasure

[@audioaficionado9494]

I leave all my electronic gear on. Power switches on the back are fine. Maybe hot running power amps would be the exception if any. I love the value/quality Schiit designs into their products.

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

I definitely don’t think the ‘Chinese question’ is one that should concern anyone anymore. I just reviewed the SMSL HO200 and tried the schiit jotunheim and it’s on a par with the Jotunheim in specs and performance but same price, another balanced connection at the front but the Schiit uses a ply metal case. The smsl is an alu billet main case, and plate front and back, and when you consider you get all that for $400, its value I doubt can be beaten.

[@PassionforSound]

I've got the HO200 here as well and I can't agree. It's a decent, solid amp, but not like the Jotunheim 2 in many ways. The Jot 2 is more dynamic, has better depth in the soundstage and uses a discrete design instead of the op-amps in the HO200. The Jot 2 can be a little coloured in its presentation, but the HO200 has its own issues with a slight lack of resolution/detail when compared to it's cheaper sibling, the SH-8s. Ultimately, I think what Schiit are doing is generally fantastic with their price-to-performance offerings. I don't love all of their products, but their discrete amps are excellent value for money. The various Chinese brands are less consistent with some amps sounding very good, some sounding flat and lifeless and none of them yet capturing the depth and realism of the Schiit discrete designs.

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

@@PassionforSound it’s so headphone dependent though and I tried it with various great HIFiMan headphones and my grados and such is the minutia of hifi often, a lot comes down to preference and tiny differences, but when you have better alu build that makes a big difference to buying decisions, much less two audiophile reviewers on the minutia differences and preferences.

[@Farazao]

I kinda like the switches on the back to be sincere.

[@PassionforSound]

Fair enough. I think it all comes down to the product and where it sits / how it's used. Definitely not a deal breaker, but I personally wish for front switches quite often.

[@joewhip9303]

Passion for Sound I have the Yggy which is designed to be left on 24/7. The power switch in the back is just fine. No issue at all.

[@PassionforSound]

I agree for products like Yggy and my old Gumby where they're best kept warmed up, but I'm not a fan of the power wastage from amps or DACs with no performance change over time / temperature

[@Farazao]

@@PassionforSound All in all the fact that so many people nitpick it sounds like a big compliment. I mean if it sounded bad nobody would care am I right? Btw, I think it's great content you're bringing and must say this is becoming one of my favorite audio chanels on youtube, thank's for that!

[@PassionforSound]

Really good point, Victor! Nice observation. Glad you're loving the content!

[@kurthertel4299]

The power switch in the rear is not an issue if one leaves it on all the time, which I do.

[@PassionforSound]

Hi Kurt, I agree, but until our power is all sustainably produced, I feel uncomfortable doing this myself.

[@mrmazlan]

I always leave on too :)

[@kurthertel4299]

@@PassionforSound Yeah, I guess that is a completely different video.

[@PassionforSound]

Very true and an interesting idea perhaps...

[@musicxxa6678]

Schiit pricing is nice compared to chinese products but shipping cost is ridiculous. It's something around $75 for Asgard, Magnius type of products + $10 broker fee. Schiit is too local in my opinion. Chinese products are more global or lately Ifi's products in this price range. I'm curious about Jason's take on delta sigma/ multibit topic after watching Rob Watts.

[@balldrips]

My i ask where abouts you're staying? I only ask because the shipping for my modius/magnius stack was $20.75. Im on the east coast of the US.

[@musicxxa6678]

@@balldrips East coast of EU :) Just checked it out $71 for Modius + Magnius +$10 for broker fee. This is lower than usual. It was around $77 for only one of them.

[@PassionforSound]

I actually asked about shipping costs separately and, according to their ops manager, Schiit only charge what they're charged for freight. One thing I can say is that the shipping is lightning quick compared to some of the products I've bought from China, but I do agree it's pricey. As for the DAC question, I have to get Mike Moffat or someone else who's a DAC guy for those answers. I'm hopeful I can do that early next year.

[@pickletired6104]

Yes, I also felt that statement from Stoddard was actually not completely true for the different regions, and you are right. I live in Europe, and there are two Schiit retailers, one in the Netherlands, the other in the UK. Most of the times everything is out of stock, but the Magnis, modis are obviously the hardest to get. And the price: 135 euros. So not really that 99 dollar price tag they advertise. And that is why at 135 there are other options already... i am not saying that I know the answer. But if the Schiit heresys would sell even for 99 euros, than much more people would get one. (For example the topping l30 is 119 euros, so actually it is cheaper.)

[@PassionforSound]

Yeah, I get the feeling that Schiit are very focussed on their US market first and foremost, but there are obviously many of us outside the US who would love to buy more Schiit 😉

[@allanwilmath8226]

You made on technical error in regards to describing balanced. Great thing to do, but there is no flipping. You have a positive version of the signal and a negative version of the signal. You drive the load, headphones in this case, across the positive and negative outputs. The ground is a shield and not part of the signal path, or shared between channels.

[@PassionforSound]

Hi Allan, I can't remember how I explained this, but the flipping I was talking about occurs in balanced amplification to cancel noise (i.e. in the signal from the DAC to the amp, but not from the amp to the headphones)

[@allanwilmath8226]

@@PassionforSound I read your reply and questioned whether I was being pedantic, but then that's what balanced is all about in the context of a living room or headphones.

[@PassionforSound]

I understand what you're saying, Allan, and I didn't take it as pedantic. I try to walk the line between enough info, not overcomplicating, and also keeping videos to a reasonable length. I always appreciate the input though and hopefully people will learn more from reading your comment 🙂

[@streamnoremorse]

How Shiit 3 compared with Xonar STX with LME49720?

[@PassionforSound]

Do you mean the Asgard 3? Or maybe Magni 3+?

[@streamnoremorse]

@@PassionforSound Asgard 3

[@streamnoremorse]

@@PassionforSound I found that even lme49720 from different supplies sound different.

[@PassionforSound]

It shouldn't vary unless you're being sold fakes. Either way though, the Asgard 3 outperforms any similar op-amp based amps that I've tried so you should expect good improvements in terms of soundstage depth and 3-dimensionality. In haven't specifically tried the Xonar STX, but given that it's an all-in-one that's also inside a computer which is a very noisy environment, the Asgard 3 should be significantly better.

[@streamnoremorse]

@@PassionforSound maybe it is fakes. They sound similar but I had headache from another. I had 3 lme49720 but break one of them trying to install in tpa3255. Also lme4562 sound more veil than 49720. Do not know why.

[@n00buo]

2:17 that is so true

[@PassionforSound]

Yeah, it's amazing Schiit keep their prices as low as they do for the quality provided

[@jon4715]

Thunderdome is cool...but Schiit needs to bring out another Nexus-based, balanced pre-amp.

[@PassionforSound]

You mean other than Jotunheim 2?

[@jon4715]

@@PassionforSound Well you know they killed the Freya S, but Jason had brought up the market for lower priced nexus pre-amp on the forums.

[@PassionforSound]

Ah, I see. Yes, I think he wants to do that, but I think he questioned whether they'd be able to at the price / size.

[@Moshm4n]

Even Schiit is moving out of CA.

[@keeferdog5617]

CAN YOU SAY, “HUMID” in CORPUS, JASON? No “Magic Mountain” weather there...

[@audioaficionado9494]

Fortunately Texas has air conditioning or no one could live there.

[@kyron42]

There is nothing to stop you from from pluging everything into one conveniently placed power board with a switch on it. Then you can leave the schiit stuff permanently on.

[@PassionforSound]

The idea is to be able to switch them off easily, but that can be achieved in the same way with either a smart power board or a board with a switch on it.

[@bltzcstrnx]

Please US audio manufacturers, band together and make a distributor store like Shenzhen Audio. Call it anything you want, Patriot Sound, Freedom Audio or whatever. The point is make your products easily accessible to non-US buyers especially Asia. Here in Southeast Asia US companies (Schiit, JDS Labs, etc) are completely uncompetitive compared to Chinese manufacturers. There are multiple problems, first one is non-existent availability, second is direct buy from US have exthortbitant shipping and import duties.

[@PassionforSound]

That would be very cool! (Also apologies - I thought I'd responded to this comment ages ago)

[@TheHope12322]

They had rekkr to complete the stack... Then they flushed it down the toilet!

[@ranbymonkeys2384]

When I look at amps, if I can't swap op amps I'm not buying it. Period. Thats why I have a Nobsound 100x2 amp for $40.

[@PassionforSound]

I haven't heard the Nobsound (but use one of their XLR switching boxes). Have you tried a Burson Fun? They're a great budget op-amp rolling amp

[@ranbymonkeys2384]

@@PassionforSound I've got the FX Audio X6 MK2 with a MUSES02 and recapped with WIMA caps. I'll put that up against any $500 DAC also.

[@ranbymonkeys2384]

@@PassionforSound In the Nobsound, you guessed it I have the "canned" style OPA627, have you tried those yet?

[@ranbymonkeys2384]

@@PassionforSound How much is that "budget" amp (Burson Fun)? 400-500? This Nobsound was $45.

[@dxb526]

I know I'm late to the party but I'm gonna rant anyways.. Here's two significant questions on how they think they even stand a chance competing against China: 1. why do you completely disregard the entire EU market? 2. Why does literally every chinese manufacturer make better AND cheaper hardware, especially all-in-one solutions such as the D7X vs Asgard 3 +Multibit? Makes no sense.. I really WANT a good Asgard AIO but I can't justify it against the chinese offerings and even IF I did, I can't buy it because the Schiit-Europe is 24/7 out of stock. That's not how to run a company against the chinese. I'll most likely end up with a D7X, SMSL stack or a cheapo Zen until something satisfying gets released that isn't chinese because fck China. /rant

[@PassionforSound]

I'm not a representative of Schiit so I'm only going on what I've heard in live streams, etc. but I think the lack of stock in EU is only a result of parts shortages that have been an issue across many industries during COVID. As for China making better products? They don't. Something like a DX7 might measure better in the measurements available, but that don't tell the whole story. An Asgard 3 will sound miles better than any of the Topping amps and the Multibit DACs too.

[@mkfmkf55]

And I'm stubborn enough to not buy products with a rear power switch. Really bad idea from a consumer standpoint.

[@PassionforSound]

I hear you. I totally get where Jason is coming from, but I also think some flexibility is required in these sorts of things and there are definitely some of their products that would benefit from a front switch even if others don't have them.

[@m.morininvestor9920]

You're a delicate flower.

[@PassionforSound]

Who, me? 🌻

[@lupus7194]

What's so great about made in USA ? My experience of US made cars is that they are schiit. White goods, TV's, computers, industrial equipment - almost none made in USA any more. My experience of them is that they were expensive and dreadful. In 1965, a TV set such as the 25-inch Kriesler Multi-sonic (black & white) would retail for around $400 equivalent to around $4900 today. In the 1960's, manufacturing left the USA and went to Japan for both quality and price reasons. That trend continued as China picked up the manufacturing baton. There was a time when Japan was pilloried for stealing US manufacturing. Now China gets the blame. When are Americans going to look in the mirror to see who is really to blame.

[@PassionforSound]

Fair point, Lupus, and I don't disagree. Made in USA doesn't really mean anything to me (not good or bad), but to some it's still important as far as I can tell.

[@musicxxa6678]

Yep totally agree.

[@potatofrench3095]

To be honest I think the whole idea of that something is made locally is respectable, because it's against rough globalist capitalism. What they mean is, that they know that the people who they are working with are payed fair, work in a normal environment, and not exploited. And he also says it: for some people this is important, for some not, and he understands both points. I also think it is respectable, because on the long run it is good for the local communities and many other companies should do the same. But ofc this is a completely different discussion:)

[@PassionforSound]

Well said. I agree. Local supply chains are good for local businesses and also better for our environment. So long as the pricing and quality can be competitive then I applaud this approach even though it makes no difference to my perception of the products themselves.

[@lupus7194]

@@potatofrench3095 In my experience, good quality and "fair trade" can come from USA, Japan, China, Mexico. My issue with the "and it's made in USA" meme is that it is an excuse for the flight of manufacturing out of the US. Rather than facing up to the real reasons for the loss of manufacturing, people who repeat this mantra are blaming product quality or labor conditions etc. Let me give you just one example: Boeing borrowed $100 billion at very low interest rates and spent the money buying back their own shares. This had the effect of ramping up the share price to the benefit of shareholders and executives (who reaped massive bonuses). It didn't do anything for productivity or the workforce or the 737 airplane but it sure damaged Boeing's made in USA reputation.

[@MrStingraybernard]

California is difficult he says ,,,thanks Democrats