LCMS vs ELCA, What's the Difference?

[@amaliexmintyy]

I'm a lutheran pastor from Norway. Thanks for providing this video, it helped me to understand the differences between the LCMS and the ELCA. The lutheran church of Norway (former state church) is very similar to the ELCA with it's ever-adapting-to-the-Zeitgeist-attitude. Personally, I'd prefer the profile of the LCMS. Good to see there are lutheran churches as the LCMS sticking to Gods word.

[@janenelovelove2639]

Thankyou my Norwegian Pastor....help my relatives there. The Sundseth family ♡+!

[@Mygoalwogel]

@Pastor Bryan wolfmueller's spambot

[@mr.starfish4965]

@Pastor Bryan wolfmueller's fake bot

[@GeorgesKameniNgamaleu]

I am original from the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Cameroon (ELCC) founded by the Norway Missionary Society 🇳🇴 and missionaries from ELCA.

[@lutheran125]

I just found this podcast. I am pastor at Zion Lutheran in Kerrville, TX. Very well said. I left the ELCA IN 2000.

[@cwstreeper]

Your explanation of scriptural differences in this video was such a blessing to me. I had been investigating Lutheranism and was unaware of denominational differences believing Lutheran churches were akin to structure as the Catholic Church or UMC. Unknowingly my first few visits were to an ELCA congregation. Your videos have helped me alot. The LCMS & AALC give me some hope. I just ordered a copy of the Book of Concord and Luther's Small Chatechism and began reaching out to Lutheran pastors such as yourself. I am extremely grateful for your ministry!

[@jgmahurin]

Im Presbyterian PCA but we definitely relate to this with the PCUSA. Very interesting video and learned a lot about the Lutheran synods.

[@roberthardisty8448]

Very well presented. I will stay with LCMS !

[@uncleloof]

LCMS womb to tomb here.

[@gineenkucherak3349]

Thank you for this enlightening explanation! I am a born and raised LCMS member. Your talk really helped my understanding of the differences I have seen over the course of my life, and I appreciated this sooooo much! God bless the work you are doing to get "The Word" out. Keep telling the story and your story. Loved your paper helpers!

[@jsharp3165]

As N.T. Wright once said, "The Church that forgets to say “we must obey God rather than human authorities” has forgotten what it means to be the Church. The spirit of the age [or culture] is in any case notoriously fickle. You might as well, walking in the mist, take a compass bearing on a mountain goat."

[@stevebriner3362]

Awesome - love the old school paper based visuals!

[@Mygoalwogel]

@Pastor Bryan wolfmueller's spambot

[@oruwatching]

Theism and Humanism is not just an issue in the Lutheran church. It affects every religious org. This was very well explained. Great video.

[@sauder1971]

You bring up an excellent point Pastor.. If culture is an authority and the Holy Spirit works through culture to bring us to a fuller understanding of truth, first of all which culture are we talking about? The culture of Nazi Germany? The culture of Saudi Arabia? And if they say "no" it's our culture why does the Holy Spirit work only through our culture? Why are we so special? Secondly, culture constantly changes and shifts with changing tastes, interests and lifestyles, so basically the Holy Spirit is changing all the time.

[@scottmiller6958]

Higher Criticism was a multi-faceted movement, but it's main early proponent was a German (Silesian) Calvinist named Friederich Schleiermacher (d. 1834). At the same time, the Prussian Union of Churches (1817) ordered the mingling of Calvinist and Lutheran Churches in Germany. Lutheranism + Calvinism = Calvinism. Thus "Lutheran" became a nomenclature without a distinction within Germany and was dependent upon the predilections of the local pastor. Much like within the LCMS today, where walking into an LCMS church does not assure "Lutheran" theology, although walking into an ELCA church almost certainly guarantees non-Lutheran, and likely, non-Christian theology.

[@jonlindemann2797]

@Pastor Bryan wolfmueller's scam!

[@markschmidt5253]

@Pastor Bryan wolfmueller's um..... is that... uh.....

[@Mygoalwogel]

@Pastor Bryan wolfmueller's spambot

[@MrGassemann]

ELCA sounds (sadly) to have a lot in common with the Norwegian Lutheran church. Although the progression hasn’t reached as far in Norway. Kyrie Eleison.

[@memewizard8372]

The Church of Norway is falling appart, how long until they're forced to sell churches to afford the upkeep of their attended churches.

[@williammetz7500]

I hear ya about having ties to the ELCA. My grandfather built some of the furnishings at Abiding Love Lutheran. I really wish that church body would repent of its errors.

[@danielgreen1557]

Repent of what errors. I see nothing wrong.

[@voidremoved]

@@danielgreen1557 his attitude is what is wrong. They are same as some catholic or orthodox can be snobs like they somehow are in a position to judge their brethren. You see they are lifting themselves above.

[@hansimgluck4965]

When you listen to orthodox guys like Bryan, and people like President Harrison, and the whole Issues, Etc. gang, it makes the LCMS and the WELS versus ELCA look like Canada and the United States versus Yemen (sorry, Yemen.) Keep it up and the Synodical Conference will be back together again. Boy would Satan hate that!

[@barefootanimist]

Alas, Canada has the same distinctions in its Lutheran identities. I was first involved with a ELCIC, which is Canada's answer to the ELCA--so far as I know. Likewise, the LCC is Canada's answer to the LCMS.

[@andreshunter]

Thank you for your teachings! Here a Vicar Valencia from Saint Paul Lutheran Church Mount Prospect, LCMS. Working with the Hispanic community around our church. God bless you!

[@MikeCinner]

Thank you Pastor Wolfmueller. I left an ECLA Lutheran Church a few years ago because they had a woman pastor contrary to Scripture. When I questioned it, I was reminded that “we are all one in Christ.” That didn’t cut it for me. That verse in Galatians 3:28 has become the new catch phrase for many who make their own doctrine. I searched and found an LCMS Lutheran Church and now fully understand the differences. I also want to thank you because your video lectures helped to prepare me for my new member orientation. I am now a member of Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Old Bridge, N.J.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

Does the LCMS allow women deacons? Or no women in any branch of ministry. I was looking into the 2 Lutheran churches in my small Ontario town in Canada. One of them seemed to have a woman assisting in the service w/ the pastor. She had a rainbow looking stole, but that could be traditional. I'm not Lutheran so I'm not sure.

[@denniscosban6145]

No women pastors at lcms. The rainbow is traditional😂

[@Rita-ui5ie]

Thank you! Just found you thru fb, and will follow you. I am a 62 year old new Lutheran....learning. Bless you!

[@LisaB_12204]

God led me to the LCMS in my 50s too. I highly recommend Issues, Etc. podcast. Also, one other PM Notes. Pr. Matt Richards is an LCMS pastor and friend of Pr. Wolfmuller. He posts his sermon and notes each week. Very helpful!

[@swm1700]

Such a good explanation. Thank you!

[@Mygoalwogel]

@Pastor Bryan wolfmueller's spambot

[@jimflys2]

You hit the nail on the head. Very good exposition of the basic details of the differences between ELCA and lcms and wels for that matter. I have kindly talked to many people till I'm blue in the face about the blatant denial of scripture in the ELCA. some have listened, but so many have not. Sadly many in the lcms and the wels have left their faith without even blinking an eye. So the church is fraught with difficulty on all fronts no matter what the confession. That's not to say that the confession isn't important, it is! Having grown up in the alc then ELCA, I have very little qualms saying that they are apostate. The other issue that is very real is 30% of confessional Lutherans do not attend worship regularly. The remaining 70% probably 1/2 of them don't know what they believe or are there because they grew up there, so they are culturally conditioned. Of that remaining 35% only a few are stepping up and serving in their congregations in material ways making it a real tough pull for those that do. I am talking about everything from cleaning the church, serving at funerals ushering and attending Bible class. No Muslim is going to come and take your church people, you willingly give it up without a blink. Come on people.

[@rickpettey8822]

Approximately 30 years ago the late E.L.C.A. Bishop McDaniel gave a presentation at Concordia Theological Seminary, Fort Wayne, regarding his church body. He remained in it in order to try and bring it around to Scriptural faithfulness. In his presentation he clearly stated that his own church was not Lutheran (i.e., holding to the authority of God's Word as taught in The Lutheran Confessions) and if it kept going the way it was it would no longer even be Christian. He didn't mean that there were no true Lutherans/Christians in the E.L.C.A but rather that as a church body according to its doctrine and practice it could no longer claim to be Christian. He didn't live to see his prophecy come true. Today, the E..L.C.A. is not a Lutheran church body and worse not Christian. You cannot advocate open sin (abortion/murder, homosexuality, co-habitation, etc.) and be a Christian church. To every pastor and person in authority in the E.L.C.A. God's Word to Ezekiel is directly on point! Ezekiel 3:17-18 (ESV) 17 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel. Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me. 18 If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked person shall die for his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. Kyrie Eleison!

[@amybartelsmusil8389]

Rick Pette

[@janenelovelove2639]

You must be a pastor

[@rickpettey8822]

@@janenelovelove2639 : I am. Pax.

[@williammozy9491]

As someone who is trying to find my place in the faith, i want to thank you. I had alot of concerns about the ELCA (out of love) and had began to attribute their beliefs to the wider lutheran church. I especially appreciate you honesty and clarity, which seems to be really hard to come by in these times. God bless you.

[@3ggshe11s]

I spent a short time in the ELCA on my way back to the Catholic church I was born into. I don't agree with every point you made here, but I think you've done an excellent job of illustrating just what's wrong with Christian churches that lean left in general, especially among the mainstream Protestant denominations: They let the culture define them. That's why they're always tweaking their message. They continue to make the Gospel fit the culture, rather than the other way around. I found the same thing when I was with the Episcopalians, the Quakers, and, to my surprise, the Mennonites. They all seemed obsessed with contemporary sexual mores and virtue-signaling to that effect, with the end result that it didn't feel like a church service so much as some kind of NPR coffee klatch. I go to church for spiritual edification and to hear the timeless message of the Gospels -- not to hear about how woke the pastor is. Thanks for the video -- very informative.

[@run4cmt]

AMEN!

[@lc-mschristian5717]

Thank you Pastor. SCRIPTURE ALONE! Peace

[@angelbonilla4243]

Why not mention that many ELCAs individuals and churches are traditional Lutherans?

[@tonguemybumb]

@Pastor Bryan wolfmueller's please don't impersonate Pastor Bryan so you can scam money.

[@leenordtomme2089]

If its not fashionable or too "smug" to call blasphemous/heretical nonsense by its name perhaps it would be more acceptable to ask of the ELCA, "On what basis do you call yourself Lutheran?" and wait for an answer. After all, their using a name under false pretenses and the LCMS can prove it with a Bible and a Small Catechism. Smug is a pretty minor offense compared to what the ELCA has inflicted on the good name of Martin Luther/ Lutheranism and the Christian religion.

[@lightdancedesigns]

My Uncle is a retired LCMS Pastor. He lived through Seminex in person while in the Seminary and stood firm with LCMS. So glad he did!

[@Mr.Truxton]

It's more like the Ecumenical Lukewarm Church of Apostasy.

[@Dilley_G45]

Yes....may I also offer this..... Erroneous Liberal Cunning Atheists

[@toddnix4573]

Examples Lutherans Can't Accept...

[@memewizard8372]

Degeneracy

[@ronald556]

@@memewizard8372 yes LCMS and sspx seemed to be the only ones upholding Christianity

[@mattfilb-mh6cp]

Once again pastor thank you for providing the truth in love. Too often Christianity is compromising the truth of the authoritative word of God to accommodate humanities feelings. God bless you

[@GenevieveW]

I took piano lessons for 11 years from one of the sweetest women - all the way though high school. She and her husband were pillars in their ELCA congregation, we'd hold our recitals at their church. Toward the end of my senior year, she asked where I was planning to apply for college, at the time as a music performance major. I listed a Presbyterian University, a Methodist University, an ELCA University, and a Concordia (LCMS). I knew really not much more about any of those denominations other than they were Christians, I was raised in a relatively progressive Roman Catholic parish. Her only advice was that we should be careful of Concordia, that they're "not the fun Lutherans - they're pretty mean." I've lost touch with her over the last about 25 years, but I often wonder if she's still on board with the culture that her church has chased after. As for "us," I think it's important to keep speaking the truth - clearly, unwaveringly, and most importantly in kindness and love. But that needs to be love in the sense of concern for our neighbor's salvation - not whether or not they'll still invite us to their next barbecue.

[@edwardpate6128]

So where did you go?

[@joselatorre1575]

Wow, watching the short clips of the ELCA, I was shocked to see how far left that church has gone. They are breaking the commandments and preaching lies! You can’t get any worse than that!! God have mercy on their souls !!!

[@janenelovelove2639]

AMEN

[@OnBelayClimbOn]

Hold fast to the Truth brother! Cling to the Word of God and don’t let go by God’s grace! Keep fighting the good fight the gates of hell will not prevail!

[@millertime8237]

ELCA Lutheran here. Even though I don't agree with you in everything I enjoy your presentation!

[@DanielRoss622]

I noticed one thing also not addressed (or I missed it) is the ELCA's ecumenism with church bodies that teach vastly different things. They are in altar and pulpit fellowship with Presbyterians, Methodists, Anglicans/Episcopals which all teach something vastly different about communion.

[@thomassarver7638]

Very interesting and eye opening, does this stem back to when they were trying to form a General Lutheran Synod and there was a split as on sector wanted to basically throw out the Augsburg Confession and open the pulpit up to any Christian Pastor, and the other sector wanted to set a primary set of confession and leave the rest a secondary so they could have fellowship with other Christian? I believe the Wisconsin Synod and Missouri Synod was in place at the time. Thinking this took place around the late 18th century. I think that this is when, what is now ELCA, started of fall off the tracks.

[@edwardpate6128]

I truly wish the ELCA would purge the name Lutheran from their name.

[@elenastahlberg4762]

And I would love if LCMS purged the word Lutheran from their name.

[@junkaccount2535]

@@elenastahlberg4762 LMCS are actual Lutherans but the ELCA are ironically wannabe Catholics.

[@ejsimms]

Excuse me. You are making assumptions which are not true. I have had LCMS friends who proudly proclaimed they were more Catholic than the pope!

[@markschmidt5253]

@Pastor Bryan wolfmueller's I think your account got hacked 3 weeks ago :(

[@landrypierce9942]

@@junkaccount2535No, they really, really aren’t. We may have our own issues over here, but the Catholic Church is overall still doctrinally orthodox.

[@dolphabernethy9723]

Thank you, Pastor Wolfmueller. This was so helpful! Your brother in Christ and in the Call, Pastor R. A. Abernethy Mount Olive Lutheran Church Newton, NC

[@ScottStrohkirch]

I was baptized in an ALC church, confirmed in an LCMS church. I spent about 15 years in American Evangelical circles before returning to the Lutheran church, first through the ELCA and then back to the LCMS before attending Concordia Theological Seminary in Fort Wayne. I am now a Pastor in the AALC which broke away from the ALC just before the merger of ALC/LCA/AELC to become the ELCA. The AALC has now been in existence for 32 years and in 2007 joined with the LCMS in an Altar/Pulpit fellowship. We have a quia subscription to the Book of Concord and see Scripture as the true infallible and inerrant Word of God. I think that growing up mostly in an LCMS church, I was being fed the fact that the Bible was God's Word. It didn't just contain it. I believe if Luther himself were here now, he would be angry with the ELCA for the way they have left the Word for Culture. I don't believe he would want them using his name in such a scandalous way. I agree though that it is with love that we should discuss the differences that exist between us.

[@barbararupholdt1840]

Different thought train: Thank you for teaching me the shorthand prayer for an emergency vehicle passing. "Lord have mercy."

[@mikepeter166]

Please explain the Holy Communion practices of the AALC. Thank you!

[@ScottStrohkirch]

@@mikepeter166 , at this time, the AALC doesn't have a firm policy regarding Holy Communion. I wish we were more closed, but what most of us call our current policy is "Responsible" communion. This puts the whole burden on the Communicant. I would prefer it to be more like the LCMS. We have our version of the CTCR doing a study which is due out next Spring.

[@mikepeter166]

Praise God for the AALC's quia subscription to the Book of Concord and seeing Scripture as the true infallible and inerrant Word of God. The ELCA's problem is not with evolution, abortion or gay issues. The ELCA's problem is with the inerrancy of Scripture ... they are free to pick and choose the inspired Word of God they to ignore. Prayers ascending that the AALC's study of Holy Scripture will affirm the Scriptural and historical practice of closed communion.

[@fixerlady8274]

I left the ELCA for the LCMS for the reasons you stated. I am agonizing now about the lack of life in my local church. Sermons are a history lesson with no talk of what it means to today’s Christians. “Political” talk is divisive and people might leave. The problem is, the things that matter are considered political. (Abortion, gay marriage, prayer in schools, pedophilia, corruption, prostitution). None of it is discussed because the church may lose its tax exempt status. I haven’t been to church since June because there is nothing there. I joined a phone prayer team that understands and uses spiritual warfare. We pray for the sick. We are politically active against injustice. This has replaced what “The Church” used to do. Things have to change fast or other people like me will leave too.

[@run4cmt]

I am so in agreement. I belong to one of the largest LCMS churchs in the country. I think the sermons now are not dealing the issues we face as Christians in today's world. They have little substance. That was not the case in the past. The final straw was when they went social justice last summer

[@gloriahuffman6612]

@@run4cmt , Sounds like the Marxists have succeeded in sowing explosives in the church that destroy them from within and expel real Christians, who leave of their own accord when they no longer recognize God, Christ & the Holy Spirit in the worship services. This is happening in every denomination, not just in the Lutheran churches. Is there a need for people to return to meeting in secret (in homes, for example) in order to escape cancellation by the government and its cultural warriors? [M6-13-22-1609E]

[@Magnulus76]

Form and historical criticism is just one difference between LCMS and the ELCA. Both churches, even before the modernist controversies of the 60's and 70's, had significant differences in how the Confessions were interpreted and applied.

[@toddberner9198]

Small , subtle persuasive statements like these stops the wrong ones dead in their tracks!

[@mcnielentertainment]

As a former member of the LCMS, very very brief former member of the ELCA and now current Independent Lutheran (generalized and standard Lutheran) because each Synod in Lutheranism contains truth & fables. The ELCA on their website attracted me until the Pastoress referred to God as a She and that turned me off from the rest of the sermon and I haven't ever been back. Left the LCMS as they barely have any serving opportunities and barely any activity groups and if you want to volunteer, you have to be Voted Yes by the PPC (Pastoral Parish Counsel), even if you have been a member & grew up in that very church. I attend AG services as they let me volunteer and because I feel God's spirit in the AG church. But as a Pastor of my Independent Lutheran ministry, Yearning For Christ, we hold very very orthodoxy beliefs of Christianity found in the original beliefs of Lutheranism that help explain the doctrine and beliefs. Subscribe to the Augsburg Confessions.

[@powerfade11]

"I think your theology is a little bit racist." - Well said!

[@memewizard8372]

YES

[@tquindt1]

Structurally speaking, the LCMS is a congregational polity (Down-Up) governance structure. We collectively agree to walk together (Synod). The ELCA is the product of the merger of several church bodies and has a top-down structure. I grew up in the ELCA/LCA/ALC and was taught that Scripture is the inerrant word of God. However during my College years, the ELCA changed this and a few politically powerful groups within the ELCA were able to force congregations to abandon our traditional Lutheran understanding of Scripture over the overwhelming objections of the congregation. Many of us had to decide whether to stay within the ELCA and try to bring it back, or to leave. As the congregation I attended in College was LCMS, this was a no-brainer. I would rather drive 1.5 hours to hear God's Word preached than to live through the conflict of people fighting a losing battle.

[@TheBlackToedOne]

LCMS here. Am I wrong or do we sometimes have more in common w/ Catholicism than some of our Lutheran brethren? Side note: not saying it has any relevency to the topic but it is interesting to remember that Luther didn't want to leave the catholic church; he was kicked out.

[@twhuning6352]

The LCMS is a confessional orthodox Evangelical (Lutheran) church body, which confesses the Book of Concord in it's entirety as true and correct. The ELCA accepts the Book of Concord only "insofar as it agrees with the Scriptures". A big difference.

[@64ImpalaSS]

WELS, also holds to the Book of Concord as 100 percent true.

[@LisaB_12204]

Thank you, pastor. What beautiful building is behind you at 18:30?

[@seankilgo317]

LeftOverWoman321 I believe that’s St Paul, Austin

[@LisaB_12204]

thank you

[@lydialandes6863]

Thanks for such an awesomely clear video!

[@vjhreeves]

In a Lutheran Ladies FB group this week, someone posted that Rick Steves, the travel guide, is a Lutheran pastor. I commented that's only true if you consider ELCA Lutheran. It didn't go over well.

[@jillcampbell8019]

He is not a church-ordained clergy/pastor.

[@loweffortstolenmemes4778]

At what point did the Holy Spirit start speaking through culture? Was the Holy Spirit speaking through the culture of the Romans who fed Christians to the lions in the coliseum? That doesn’t seem very much like the Holy Spirit to me...

[@vjhreeves]

Exactly. Nothing but pure rationalization that lets them live how they want.

[@timothychism5690]

So the ELCA denies Sola Scriptura? Former southern baptist who is charismatic and reformed, asking to just understand. I hold to the 5 solas, and the 5 points of Calvinism. But I’m a huge fan of Martin Luther. And in college I dated a girl who was lcms. So I have always been interested in Lutheran issues. We’re “church shopping” for this season in life and are looking into visiting a Lutheran congregation that is lcms.

[@matthewbrown8183]

I think the comment about Martin Luther is great! Maybe they will drop the name Lutheran. It would benefit us greatly.

[@Cjinglaterra]

Funnily enough, at the Episcopalian parish I used to be a member at a belief in the Real Presence was a requirement to partake in the Eucharist. I knew at the time that we were a conservative parish, but I had no idea how conservative until later.

[@melaniebarker6625]

Good clarification about how the Bible (God's Holy Word) is viewed by LCMS & ELCA.

[@kenb.765]

At what point do we stop referring to the ELCA as Lutheran?

[@thescriptorium1206]

Hello pastor, you mentioned that episcopalians deny the body and the blood. I can't speak for the liberal episcopalians but In Anglican (acna and traditional) liturgy and doctrine does affirm the body and blood in the eucharist. Thank you for your video and the explanation of the differences between elca and lcms. :)

[@richarddickinson1165]

Very well presented. Appreciate your way of breaking this down. Easy to understand. Would be interested in your feelings towards the NALC. Thanks again

[@meg5122]

Greeting to you Pastor Wofmueller. I am not a trained theologian just a regular Jesus follower on my journey. I attend an ELCA congregation. After hearing you explain the difference between the LCMS & the ELCA a couple thoughts came to mind. What about Peter’s dream in Acts 10 where God gave important directions about the changing of his church and gave a message about who are to be considered his people. See Acts 10:34-36 . Some folks living back in Peter’s time accepted and some rejected the good news that is Jesus the way of true life for all. Perhaps God’s kingdom truly is for all and he prefers inclusivity versus exclusiveness and to be “in” according to God is to have a desire to serve in his kingdom. Like in Matthew 20:15 not everyone is pleased at God’s generosity

[@georgeselvestra1009]

I did mean to also say that I feel that your video is a very easy to understand presentation for lay persons trying to understand what is going on. Thank you!

[@davidturney189]

PastorBryan, I judt found you and your video. I want to thank you very much. You did a great job. I have been an Elder at my church for about 10 years now ( LCMS) and I have been so blessed by serving and have asked about this subject a lot. No, I dont think you were smug on what you said. You are just confident about what the Scripture says and what you believe. It saddens me about the elca and how they chase the world to have the worlds approval and not Gods. I am going to share your video with my Pastor. May GOD bless you with wisdom and a long and healthy life

[@williamgammeter5113]

This is one of the more painful aspects of Christianity in America. Scripture and believers of God's Word have always struggled...but, Christ is clear...to love Christ will only bring enmity from the "culture." P.S. shuffled slightly from Scripture to point out misuse of reason.

[@twhuning6352]

The LCMS subscribes to the Lutheran Confessions (Book of Concord) as true and correct in their entirety. The ELCA accepts the Lutheran Confessions as true and correct only "insofar as they agree with Scripture." That opens the door.

[@paulengstrom432]

but isn't it true that the Bible is supposed to trump all else?

[@jeremyhaugen273]

Seminary student, so feel free to disregard. Luther uses Word rather than Scripture when he is talking about theology. He's using Word in a John 1 sense... as in Christ himself. Thanks... your words are bringing me comfort in a difficult time.

[@jonbeaupain9687]

I am a WELS Lutheran. I enjoyed this video. Everything you said would apply as a difference between the WELS and ELCA too. I can definitely identify with what you said about sharing the name "Lutheran" with the ELCA. Unfortunately, society does not understand that there are three major Lutheran denominations. In my church we have had gay couples come into the office to ask to get married because they had heard somewhere that Lutherans do gay marriage. We then have to explain to them that we do not do that. I also agreed with your comments about not being too smug. The one thing I will say is that all Lutherans need to treat each other with respect. We may not agree with each other and we may not be in fellowship but we should still be friendly to one another. I have had LCMS member tell me that WELS stands for "Wacky Extremely Legalistic Society" and I can not count how many times I have heard from LCMS that we are that crazy church that doesn't pray with other Christians. To be clear, the WELS does not condemn any LCMS member to hell. We just have a few disagreements with the LCMS that keep us from being in fellowship. The LCMS church is a Christian church and I look forward to being in heaven with LCMS Lutherans. There are some in my church that make snide comments about LCMS too and that is just as wrong.

[@nckoes]

Fascinating. I left the RCC around 2010. Found ELCA in 15. There are only 3 LCMS churches in my entire state so it was a geography issue at first. Open communion, I was never offered confirmation, I heard about the Book of Concord from KZbin. I drifted off and found the LCMS in 2019. I had a really hard time with a woman pastor. I had been in the RCC for almost 50 years. A woman essentially officiating at a liturgical service so similar to the RCC was jarring, distracting. I have a friend who is woman pastor in a Reformed church- I've enjoyed her services- they don't seem a mockery of the RCC. I know Catholics who accidentally went to ELCA services and turned right around. They aren't Lutherans now. Harm is being done. We are desperate for a catholic church without the last 900 years or so!

[@GScheele3]

HuPERSON. 😂😂 You’re cracking me up. Pedantic side note: Human comes from Latin and has nothing to do with the male gender. Man comes from German, and has nothing to do with the male gender. The gender marker fell off. 🤓

[@gudewarkis387]

You can't say Huperson, it has "son" in it. That is offensive to daughters.

[@martinjohnson1366]

@@gudewarkis387 LOL... And "Hu" sounds too much like "you" and thus isn't inclusive enough. ;-)

[@LisaB_12204]

@@gudewarkis387 hahahahaha

[@thelutheranorganist4846]

Gude Warkis you’re right...it should be hupeople

[@janehampton2866]

Thanks. In my search for a church I got ahold of the ELCA and there was no mention of the Bible. I got in contact with LCMS and the Bible was the first thing the pastor mentioned. I’m at a LCMS church.

[@samuelholm316]

As a Swedish evangelical/bapticostal, I find this video very interesting and informative. For starters, I don't know so much about American denominations. Much of what you said Bryan about the ELCA sounded like the mainstream of the Swedish Lutheran church. I thought liberal Lutherans was a Scandinavian phenomenon, but apparently not. I do not agree with all points of Lutheran orthodoxy, but I am totally with you regarding the status and authority of the Bible. :)

[@tquindt1]

Our friends in the ELCA would do well to study the Scriptures in the original Greek. We have some amazing English Translations today such as the ESV (over 5500 ancient manuscripts), but nothing is translated perfectly from one language to another. Many critics are basing their criticism of Scripture based off of a poor understanding of the context and original languages.

[@kkuster1]

I'm a fairly moderate ELCA member. You and I would likely disagree on any number of things. But, a very great ELCA pastor once told me. "One of the most incredibly wise things the good Lord did was design the human body so people can stand shoulder to shoulder without being eye to eye."

[@tabras1]

I think all are gods children and it’s wonderful to see all the differences among Christian’s. Love and may god bless you!

[@CalabreseLady]

Pastor I am so thankful that I have found your channel. I grew up and was confirmed in the ELCA. Our church taught Bible based sound lessons until the mid 1980s. That is when our church began to move towards acceptance of the more liberal ideology. It breaks my heart to see so many people being lead astray by false teachings. Where I live currently there is only 1 LCMS Lutheran church and they ordained a female pastor. 🥲 Am I allowed to take communion at a Baptist church? I am not sure what to do as that is my only option at this point. Thank you for your time.

[@sandyagostinho3276]

I am proudly a member of the ELCA and this video confirmed my beliefs.

[@donrichter3523]

Sooo…you don’t really want to follow scripture, just whatever societal norms of the day are…..got it

[@gloriawilson3241]

I was a member of the ELCA until they adopted the ten suggestions. The Bishop moved his boyfriend in with him so we left and went to the Catholic Church.

[@uluhitah12]

Still confused because none of these Churches in my country. I am Evangelical christian but under another church

[@talia384]

It’s sad, my first experience in a Protestant church was in a Lutheran church. And I had to leave it because I realized later on they believed in progressive Christianity. They didn’t even bother to tell me and my family when we first started to ask questions about Lutheran beliefs since me and my mom were raised Catholic. The evangelical Lutheran church has no business calling themselves Christian. I’m sorry to Conservative Lutherans who actually believe in the scripture authority are grouped in with them.

[@somebody1234567891]

As a Presbyterian (PCA), I do have to draw a sharp distinction with the Presbyterian (PCUSA) folks, for all of the same reasons you just listed here. Definitely don't want to be too ecumenical here (ya'll are so wrong on the real presence in the communion), but always glad to see Christian brothers standing up for the truth of scripture over huperson reasoning.

[@p.t.benzinger2179]

Fort Wayne represent!

[@tickmann]

I am a member of an 'ELCA' congregation.. We had a serious discussion a few years ago to determine whether or not to leave the denomination. Are congregants are elderly.. we determined it would be too disruptive. At this point, we are ELCA in name only to retain our property and infrastructure. We were checked out at the 'Call To Common Missions'... The hope is to remain centrist. Not to fall off one side of the horse with Scholastic Higher Criticism over Scripture which results in antinomianism or the other side reading Scripture in a wooden, fundamentalist prism which leads one back under the Law and restricts Christian Freedom. I will look more into the LCMC... I can't take the ELCA anymore. If not for my Pastor and congregation, I would seek another alternative.

[@Punkyrooster6]

I’m looking for God, not a religion feeds me the illusion that I am God. Very helpful presentation.

[@fighterofthenightman1057]

Just in case you’d find it interesting to hear from an “outsider,” here’s my experience! I was baptized LCMS but confirmed ELCA … like a lot more Lutherans than online types would guess, my parents didn’t really care about the distinction. I’m too theologically moderate to be LCMS (e.g., believing in evolution when God gives us clear scientific evidence for it doesn’t mean Scripture was in error, it means we should not have been interpreting Genesis literally!), so my current church home is the ELCA. With that said, the national leadership drives me nuts! They’re more political leaders than anything else! Luckily, my ELCA congregation is very moderate. I believe there is a place for a conservative Lutheran denomination like LCMS and a more liberal one like the ELCA, but the ELCA needs a heavy dose of conservatism to counterbalance things. Regardless, as a Lutheran I love your content! Especially the video explaining why baptism is so important addressed toward Evangelicals! Keep up the good work, and God bless!

[@nilsalmgren4492]

ELCA teaches that homosexuality is acceptable while LCMS still calls homosexuality a sin and is unacceptable.

[@townhall05446]

I belong to a LCMS church. Recently I relocated and moved my church membership also. I have to say I am enjoying my new church much more than the old one, because the old one it seemed to me was striving to be more 'Catholic' - processional cross coming up the center aisle (which we were to turn and face, though the pews were not designed for turning around and facing backwards); lots of chanting which to me got in the way of understanding the WORDS of the liturgy and collect. I have been told that there are a couple of branches of LCMS, one from MO and one from Ft. Wayne Indiana. One of them was pushing their member churches to go with this very Catholic change. I did not grow up with that and to me it is an affectation of no value to my faith. My new church has not gone to that and I feel much more comfortable worshiping there than pretending to be Catholic.

[@Mygoalwogel]

It also calls Article 15 into question.

[@joshbluhm250]

"It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man." Psalm 118:8 [NIV]

[@billmartin3561]

Interesting that the church that started the reformation, rejecting church (Catholic) doctrine, is now under reformation by another group from within that is rejecting church (LCMS) doctrine.

[@philliphofinga7983]

It is not the case that the LCMS "came along and said the Bible IS God's Word..." Rather, that was always the Lutheran teaching.

[@peterwarner358]

There is also the Evangelical Lutheran Diocese of North America (ELDONA) that group has a congressional parish known as Holy Cross Lutheran Church with Rev. Joshua Sullivan. Holy Cross at one point before they become ELDONA was originally LCMS (evident from the fact they still utilize TLH, and they're still singing introit.and gradual verses. They also sing entrance hymns as well.) In the LCMS and ELCA sing or read psalms of The Day between the OT and NT Epistle Readings. The ELDONA sings Create in Me after the offertory, the LCMS and ELCA sing Let The Vineyards or What Shall I Render to the The Lord following the offertory and both the LCMS and ELCA sing Thank the Lord following the Sacrament and the ELDONA sings the Nunc Dimitis and Gloria Patri following the Sacrament. Which if there things is structurally abd liturgically correct and is this CONSTITUTIONALLY CORRECT according to the bylaws and resolutions of each Lutheran Church Group (ELDONA, LCMS, ELCA)? Some ELCA abd LCMS congregations have also been known to sing the Doxology following the offertory.

[@williamtustin4490]

I am really confused now. I thought Lutheran was Lutheran! Is the elca more liberal? And your church more conservative?

[@TimGun87]

More like ELCA is extremely liberal/progressive to the point of being anti-Biblical, where as LCMS tries to follow the Bible as close as humanly possible.

[@jasontiller]

For those wanting an answer to the question posited in the title without the exposition: LCMS asserts the Bible is the explicit, infallible, immutable word of God - ELCA does not.

[@maggieobersat3861]

Can't wait to hear you at our school soon!

[@isabellaschillinger7912]

i’m lcms and ive heard a lot of talk abt the end of the world coming and i’ve heard the catholic view on it, what’s ours exactly? what happens to us humans when the world is ending?

[@jakkistaatmcdonald4555]

I'm ELCA and struggling with where the ELCA has been going.

[@joejones3582]

You are so humbly joyfully SUPERB!

[@toddberner9198]

The ELCA is soon to be held to quick judgment over their hazardous choices.

[@danielwidyanto5142]

As Roman Catholic, I should say that your opinion is very identical to what Catholic believe about women priest and ordination, same sex marriage and chastity. Though I never believe in sola scriptura, I believe that any personal or communal revelation from God should not contradict the Bible.

[@Chomper750]

When someone puts their faith in human reason over God's word, they are repeating the sin of Adam & Eve: deciding for themselves to be the judge of what is good and what is bad instead of trusting God.

[@rhywe]

ELCA here, while there are some differences no doubt, I still find so many similarities in our two denominations. Our worship is basically the same, we have the same theology on how we can’t make a decision for Jesus, and on the rapture and stuff. I love your videos, almost every video I’m like “heck yeah” “this guy is killing it with good Lutheran theology” , until you begin bashing the ELCA, and being sarcastic toward beautiful LGBT people. I do feel however it’s a little over the top that people feel like they must say LGBTQIA+ every single time, like how long are we going to make this acronym?

[@jillcampbell8019]

If speaking about someone or something via proper name, in very least use the correct name. It’s the Evangelical Lutheran Church IN America, not OF America. It’s also similar in saying Christians are IN the world, but not OF the world. Big theological difference. 👍🏼

[@theadventurousprogrammer6449]

For some reason this video didn't pop up in my subscription feed. KZbin must hate Lutheranism (dislike using that word)

[@theadventurousprogrammer6449]

@Pastor Bryan wolfmueller's ohh did he now? Seems like Pastor Bryanwolfmueller is either off his rocker or got hacked. P.S. Pastor you've been hacked by someone.. may want to check into it.

[@jonlindemann2797]

@Pastor Bryan wolfmueller's scam.

[@matthewhamby4479]

Enjoyed your explanation. By the way, what you fear is interpreted as smugness is a refreshing sense of humor.

[@Laundry_Bloc16]

In Papua New Guinea we have the ELC PNG, and Reform Lutheran and the MELPA Lutheran Church, all don't support same sex marriages.