Path of Exile 3.8 - "New" Raider & Saboteur Are Disappointing..? (PoE Blight League)

[@LiftingNerdBro]

Guys good news regarding the Raider; from the balance design manifesto: "The Raider received some numerical improvements and one additional aura mechanic to make it more competitive, but will receive more changes in the future to give it more unique features." This was posted the day after this video and is thus the reason I didn't bring it up.

[@p.scottl3447]

I don't think the minor nodes to Avatar of the Chase were nerfed since they now provide "Effect" instead of Duration of Onslaught, and duration of onslaught was basically pointless for Raider.

[@aciarduce]

Was just about to post this. An additional 30% effect of Onslaught is pretty nice. Would take over duration of Onslaught from Raider any day.

[@LiftingNerdBro]

Absolutely, I simply misread - my bad. It is definitely a buff.

[@p.scottl3447]

@@LiftingNerdBro Yeah easy to do with these releases with lots of information at one time. Just wanted to try to clarify for people. Thanks!

[@IamNinjaOfNinja]

As a total noob, does this mean the new raider may be faster in terms to speed compared to Deadeye?

[@p.scottl3447]

@@IamNinjaOfNinja I would doubt its faster but its probably quite quick and much tankier especially now.

[@ItsYoji]

I feel like the interesting part of the mine revamp is mainly the mechanical changes of the mines themselves. The Saboteur seems to mainly provide power and quality of life to mine skills. The detonation chain could have the potential of being really fun. Throwing mines makes them very similar to traps and we'll have to see how the rest turns out :) Really enjoyed listening to your opinion on the archetype!

[@ProvaBeK]

I can hear your accent in this comment and I love it 😂

[@anthony8146]

You're not negative, its an objective opinion, good job!

[@andriishvedkiy9401]

Evasion+Onslaught effect small nodes actually got buffed, they were giving 20% Onslaught duration, now they are increasing it's effect.

[@LiftingNerdBro]

You are right, I misread :)

[@pk10006]

Can you imagine people in WW2 throwing some mines as a defensive resource?

[@andyflinders8333]

Hey Lifting, I was checking out the Stunning Flicker guide last night, I was wondering if you thought that build would be alright on the raider? Obviously scaling evasion / dodge instead of armor. Like running vaal grace or something like that. As far as I understand the stunning part should work the same? But you lose the impale/ rage... yes?

[@lucasbortoluzzi9369]

this is not a sbotour rework, just an adaptation to the mine rework, this is fine btw traps are doing well imo. also i think that the nerf to pyromaniac as been concidered from the begining, when poeple go for a sabotour for rf, while sabotour is supposed to be the tricky guy that place mines and go away because he isn't a tank.... this was weird when it came up, really weird for many poeple. so i guess it won't remove the ascendancy identity. Maybe they will rework traps too as traps will probably like the same as mines but less interesting and then we'll have the 2nd part of the rework (or they will just keep traps for poeple who wants to have that playstyle without having a very complex build). Also i agree with you raider as to be op for poeple to play it because it's just not interesting, i think that they do that because they had bigger priorities right now, thaty also let me think that they won't rework it soon so that's just a compensation for raider players (also it's pretty hard to have 19 ascendancy with their own identity, raider used to be the fast one but now everything is fast so they probably have to change it all to make it feel good), also phasing and onslaught are obtainable threw potions so even if you have nice additional effects it doesn't feel build enableing and gameplay enableing because you can easily acquire these on any other character, overall raider is annoying and i think they didn't find what to make with it yet

[@weertangel7231]

A great video as usual :) When it comes to the Raider, i think its more focused on phasing atm then anything else and has thus become more casual, it also might be some kind of prep for the upcoming mega expansion they will be announcing at Exilecon, but time will tell. As for the Saboteur and the whole mine throwing thing, i think its to give mines a future and to give them some faster clear speed, if it will work out has to be seen...

[@gamergeek494]

It used to be 20 onslaught duration, now instead 15 onslaught effect. Thats a buff, you never run out of onslaught anyway thanks to rapid assault.

[@anthonyphillip540]

Raider is looking great for delves though! Onslaught, exposure, phasing, and evasion/enemy accuracy debuff. Offensive and defensive scaling will be much easier.

[@LiftingNerdBro]

That is actually very true. I could see the Raider work very well for delving!

[@Xirpzy]

Ye raider needs something unique. Everything she has can be found elsewhere. Maybe add more ascendancies, one for mines and one for traps.

[@itwas467]

I think raider had generic 'boost' for far too long. I think she could use crazy passive addition like 'summon a clone at 100 stack of something' or 'reflect all physical damage for 1 second during parry after x amount of kill/time'. Fact of the matter is that deadeye + tornado effectively killed the concept of raider which is supposed to be fast jump from pack to pack for focus on clear speed and few tweaks won't change that.

[@adenwalberry8030]

Neither of these ascendancy changes really excites me very much either. I would really like to see the raider with some kind of elemental conversion through the phasing / ele path. Throw a 25% phys to cold on Avatar of the Veil and the ascendancy would gain an identity that i feel is sorely missing at the moment.

[@engindemir6353]

Really nice explanation tyvm!!!

[@jessicametal7796]

What do you mean you don't like traps, LNB? I thought you missed having me in your channel? :P ;) But yeah, I'm with you on not being too excited about the Sab and Raider changes. Necro and Assassin changes are bonkers though, with Necro being the most ambitious imo.

[@anthony8146]

great video! love the analysis

[@MyEconomics101]

RE: Mine changes & "Path of Exile suffers from normalisation" I think what you meant, the word you were looking for, was homogenisation. Making skill and mechanics, that are not meta, are made by the design team more similar to the skills and mechanics that are meta, have mind share. But as we know, mind share does not mean it is the best thing.

[@j4zzy-j]

With regards to the mine rework, I think we can put the "blame" squarely at the feet of Jonathan. He felt that mines are clunky and he's the boss so mines have to change. Don't get me wrong here, I love the guy, but I think he needs to look more to player feedback and less at his own outdated feelings with regards to game mechanics. That being said, I don't think that change in general is bad and we will have to wait and see how these specific changes pan out. Regarding the Raider "rework". This is not a rework, it is a minor numerical rebalance. Back when 3.7 was announced we asked "what about Raider?" and I remember Bex promising that Raider would be reworked in 3.8. They have reneged on that promise. I hope they revisit Raider in 3.9. As for the Saboteur rework. As someone already mentioned, this is pretty much just the required changes needed to accommodate the mine rework. Minus the nerf to Pyromanica of course. All-in-all the Raider and Sab changes are "boring" because they aren't actually reworks and therefore don't contain anything innovative. The mine changes are definitely interesting and the jury is out on whether this is a good change or not.

[@mr.nobody4994]

But mines were clunky to play, so he's not exactly wrong there.

[@crazycdn8327]

Listening to beaclast the devs said so few people were playing mines they decided to make changes to see if they could ignite people to play it again. Your opinion was not negative, you had fair criticisms from your point of view which is always fine (thought in 2019 apparently this is becoming a no, no, you gotta get mob approval for opinions I heard). I'm going to start a melee build, if this league mechanic is meh as it looks I'll likely take 2.5 months off and play some Grim Dawn. Good video!

[@urf47]

The minors arent a Nerf from 20% to 15%, its changed from Duration to effect :) (raider)

[@itwas467]

GGG really missed the mark with this opportunity. Saboteur is still the 'either I one shot you uber elder or you will' and raider is just inferior version of other ascendancy.

[@MyEconomics101]

Frost Blades Raider: 2 4 6 8 = Damage And take on the tree defences. Dual wield or shield.

[@mr.nobody4994]

I'd rather go 10-12 for the extra speed.

[@Pluke89]

Offtopic question 😄 what u think about facebreaker cyclone in 3.8? What class u suggest? Will the phys nerf are going to feel hard in dps?

[@gunz300]

Play as a gladiator. I ran this in legion and it's pretty strong and very tanky. As far as the nerf, who knows until Tuesday.

[@cimerea]

Gonna play another elemental TS raider this league so I guess every little bit helps :]

[@SoundsOfSushi]

These new changes to Sabo, Assassin and Necro seem lackluster. I see people sticking with Tornado Shot, Cyclone and totem builds at the start of the league.

[@kristijanzikic1970]

What bothers me even more is, why did they buff the fire trap...

[@vojinvmilojkovic7622]

I was thinking bros and senpai bro, are the changes/buffs just inspiring as you say, bad? or we are just used to over powering buffs? and these that we are getting are well balanced one (for change, i assume since we all like to be op)

[@kar0x]

raider only seems to be for attack evasion frenzystacking builds

[@dhowell913]

I've always enjoyed traps and hated mines now mines look like traps I have to detonate unless we use skitterbots then they're just minion activated traps. I was going to do an icicle mines build but now idk since it doesn't look like they care to much about that one

[@henrychin2294]

why does this ascendancy have less keystone compared to others?

[@GnnrBrr]

If that new gloves also applied the leech to traps I would understand the regen nerf but come on, makes no sense reducing it for traps, rn i feel like if ur going saboteur u have to play mines

[@makiimedia]

raider actually seems pretty legit

[@davidschroeter2221]

Yeah with the onslaught path you get 95% evade chance with 50k evasion. Nice defensive option, coupled with spelldodge it works. Its something like a class I would recommend to someone new to the game, just not to min-maxers.

[@EnjoyGengar]

mines are grenades now

[@Logined85]

Any of those make little to none of the difference for both of the classes. Well, yet another league w/o any of those in my books.

[@EddyJaber]

Mines and traps should be renamed as grenades. Because let's be honest guys, this is what they are.

[@akbkamiru8771]

5 minute late damn, nice explanation as always

[@ScottySkilz1]

you play hoops bro?

[@biduMandias]

I wish I could steal your voice to me. lol

[@ARES13GAGE]

RIP Autominer builds

[@slavicsquat5759]

Raider rework is disappointing. Raider always been the most generic ascendancy, with all 3 things being easy enough to obtain by other classes (phase, green charges and onslaught). Wish they would give her some unique stuff.

[@welsj91]

Phasing

[@II-zw7vw]

*PHASING*

[@lucasbortoluzzi9369]

many poeple didn't enjoy mines and played it because it was way to strong at boss killing, that's why they changed it, all the mines had to throw crazy amounts of projectiles to be somewhere near a good clear speed too so it was just press2 keys instead of one and have autoguided projs. they want you to actually place your mines nearby enemies now so they gived the range, i personnaly like it, but i think traps will bad in comparaison.

[@Gid-J]

Raider is so boring, just pick any other ascendancy and put Bloodrage on it, same experience.

[@proffsser12]

second?

[@beezzyj]

first =]

[@pathofexile7529]

Here is list of people that care.Oh look it's empty.