Pathfinder 2E Spell Casting Explained

[@TheCaboose568]

Necromancers don't exclusively deal with dead bodies, most of their spells revolve around manipulating a living body (Causing blindness, sapping strength, peeling skin, forcibly moving bones, etc) so making healing necromancy is fine. You're stitching their meat back together after all.

[@Yous0147]

I like to think that you could call it Necromancy or Biomancy depending on the context, i.e. which side of the coin you're looking at.

[@Fabelaz]

God I'm so glad it's default in pf2e, this is a homebrew rule for games I dm.

[@linnlock7958]

@@Yous0147 biomancy IS necromancy, just a subtype

[@jaeg.3806]

I think that Gandalf is more of a Divine caster, knowing where his magic comes from, the things he's done and how he is viewed. The word "Wizard" has a slightly different meaning on Middle-Earth.

[@Pokytik]

Gandalf is a divine caster, he is pratically an angel

[@cultofthebloodgod429]

Pokytik I thought that he had demonic blood not angelic

[@mjsfalcon986]

@@cultofthebloodgod429 You're thinking of Merlin.

[@azurethegamerkobold5434]

FYI Cure spells use to be necromancy in previous editions, this is more of a return to form.

[@Xjr555kid]

I am in absolute agreement with what they did to Necromancy. Sure a Necromancer can learn raise dead rituals, but a harmful font Cleric makes a much better Necromancer.

[@ArdentLion]

Occult is Arcane, just with clothes from Hot Topic and no friends.

[@Gashren]

They changed healing to be necromancy - well, now in Pathfinder is as it was in AD&D: all healing was necromancy then too. I have no quarrel with that. Too be honest - having cure spells under Conjuration seemed counterintuitive for me - how your healing spell has anything to do with conjuring something? Even in P1 (Pathfinder 1st ed) Necromancy school was described as "Necromancy spells manipulate the power of death, unlife and life force", but the only "life" spell per se was what - False Life? Plus maybe Vampiric Touch, as it "heals" (temp hp) the caster.

[@pennding3415]

oh yeah why healing spells where placed anywhere other than necromancy is a mystery to me, you know in DnD 5e they put healing spells in the evocation school, yes fire ball and cure wounds these spells are very similar.

[@ollywright]

Very happy to see you doing 2e content! The 4 degrees of success is a big improvement imho, save or suck has become a lot more interesting, even for enchantment... Rituals seem about the same as 1e Occult Adventures, which is a good thing.

[@colinsmith1495]

I would agree if it weren't so dependent on critical failures to get what I consider a decent spell effect. Look at Paralyze. On a regular failure, they're only paralyzed for 1 round. Considering how hard it is in 2E for casters to get crits, I think this was a BIG mistake in 2E. Similarly, Web just slows the targets down on a Failure. Slow just cuts out one action for 6 rounds on Failure.

[@Opaqu.e]

I think they put disintegrate into evocation because it deals damage and only transmutes the target if it kills them, much like all evocation spells, while other transmutation spells are mostly damage-free and a failed save results in being transformed regardless of any secondary quandry like hit points.

[@pennding3415]

disintegrate in evocation: *burns way a large portion of the body or they whole thing if it kills* disintegrate in transmutation: "hey look you shape shifted into a dead guy"

[@colinsmith1495]

I like the Transmutation interpretation better. If it doesn't kill, it just turns some _portion_ of their body to dust, like a lot of skin, or a chunk of flesh. The more damage, the more of the body. If it kills, the whole body.

[@linnlock7958]

I agree with disitegrate being evocation-transmutation not just evocation

[@grimsepher1840]

i tend to think of healing magic just like "injecting" lifeforce into someone, just like how i imagine raise dead as a very large injection of life force. it makes perfect sense that necromancy is the manipulation of life and death.

[@demforr]

Glad you are making these videos on P2. Was really looking for them since they are so in-depth.

[@colinsmith1495]

My two biggest problems with spells in 2E are: 1. They got rid of or nerfed most buff, debuff, control, and field spells. The damage spells are still just as potent as ever, but it seems like that's mostly all the casters have until higher levels, when they're just as powerful as ever. 2. They don't play well with the new action economy. With almost all spells being 2 actions, including cantrips, that leaves you with one action to move.... or shoot your crossbow? Basically, they're back to Standard Action Spell, Move Action movement. I wish there were more 1 action spells that could mix up play more.

[@zealotblitz4331]

Necromancy isn’t evil, it’s recycling

[@Almighty_Mage]

recycling is evil

[@siegfried1422]

You have angered many, many druids.

[@Sethoshini95]

FINALLY healing spells are back under necromancy

[@jinxtheunluckypony]

The heightening restriction really screws over spontaneous casters.

[@RagingWyvern]

Question how can you know a lvl3 spell at lvl 5

[@SheppiTSRodriguez]

@@RagingWyvern You learn the 5th level version of it or use Signature spell

[@alexandersmith9144]

Thinking about putting Pathfinder 2nd edition on my Christmas Wish List this year! Looks fun.

[@natanoj16]

Isn't Gandalf literally an Angel?

[@d6damage93]

Yes and no. Gandalf, aka Olorin, may be a Maiar, but in his wizard form, most of his power is restrained. Gandalf's power in the story mostly comes from what he knows and his ability to motivate others.

[@BarokaiRein]

Where did you find the thumbnail art? I know it's Folklore fan art but I can't bloody find it from google.

[@Snacker6]

I found it using an image search. Let's see if KZbin will allow me to post a link. www.zerochan.net/Folklore

[@187nags]

in my homebrew world i don't make my players prepare spells in higher slots just prepare or know the spell and spend one of your higher slots to heighten it

[@jaeg.3806]

If your eliminating the prepared casters' weakness I'd suggest eliminating the repertoire casters' weakness as well, otherwise there's no point in playing a Sorcerer over a Wizard aside from flavor, and flavor should not make you weaker.

[@PlaneswalkerTARDIS]

Dont forget, if a prepared caster makes a spell their Signature Spell for that level, they can up cast it for free

[@scottruppert278]

Wait, how?

[@PlaneswalkerTARDIS]

@@scottruppert278 You just can. It's an ability the sorc and bard get at level 3

[@d6damage93]

I've had a look at Signature Spells. Spontaneous casters (Bard and Sorcerer) can select a spell as their signature spell. This class feature relates to heightening the spell. Because spontaneous casters need to learn heightened versions of spells they wish to cast at higher levels, the signature spell saves space in your spell repertoire. You only need to know one version of it and can heighten it without needing to have learned a higher level version. You still need to expend a spell slot as normal. (Bard page 98, sorcerer page 193).

[@PlaneswalkerTARDIS]

@@d6damage93 You get one per spell level, right? Starting at level 3 when you get 2nd level spells and can upcast

[@smile-tl9in]

i really dislike the fact they kept the preparation per slot instead of having a list of spells preparee like in 5e. The whole spontaneous caster need to know a heightened spell to heighten a spell is mind-booglingly stupid. Sorcerer spell known are scarce enough as it is

[@DarthStuticus]

He skipped over some key things. and got a few points wrong with action economy of spells. Spontaneous casters get "signature spells" so you can know a signature spell of each level. this counts as knowing all spell levels of that spell. using an impossible combination to demonstrate. using the old terminology, lets say a sorc knows cure wounds, scorching ray and fireball for a level 1, 2, and 3 spell. That sorc could cast level 1, 2 and 3 cure wounds and it would only count as one known spell, if they designated it as a signature spell. same with scorching ray, you could cast it as a 2 or 3 level spell if designated that way. With fireball you learn fireball once if you designate it as signature and can cast it at any level. this still takes multiple spell lots if you want more than one type of spell that does a thing but it does help save a bit of room for spells you focus on. which spells are your signature spells can also be changed in some situations. regarding action economy, Material components do not taken an action. and its possible for a spell to have a Verbal and Somatic component that would only take one action. spells have an action cost, and actions you do to make them but there is no direct tie to how many actions a spell actually take.

[@ATinyWaffle]

As someone who's played 5e and Pathfinder 1e, they really fucked up prepared casters. Having to choose the amount of each spell you'll cast at the start of the day is a horrible mechanic that 5e got rid of from it's earliest editions because of how damning it is. "I prepared Feather Fall in case I fall off a cliff. Oh, I never fell today? I guess I just permanently lose a spell slot for the whole adventuring day." "Oh, someone ambushed us at camp before we could sleep! Luckily I still have a spell slot left! It's Featherfall... GUESS I'M FUCKED!"

[@lupuslunari]

Do spells still have minimum stat requirements? Like if you want to cast a 9th level spell you must have a least a 19 in your relevant casting stat?

[@d6damage93]

No, but that being said, you don't multiclass the same way you did in E1. You can get spell casting abilities from another class using multiclassing feats that will typically have a requirement of certain ability modifier. Also, it's harder to raise your ability scores as you progress a predetermined amount every time.

[@lupuslunari]

@@d6damage93 Ah, well that's good! I'm building a tanky Wild Order Druid and needed to know if it was safe to get my Wis score to 18 and leave it there to focus on the physical stats! :D

[@jeremymerkt3526]

Newbie here. Question. How do you determine the math for your (spell attack roll). I don't know what I'm missing or not understanding. Mainly what ability score modifier do I add?

[@d6damage93]

The ability score modifier depends on your class. A wizard will use intelligence, a cleric will use wisdom, a bard will use charisma, and a sorcerer casting modifier will be determined by your bloodline. Finally you'll add your proficiency modifier and the bonus you get from your proficiency level. For example, if you are a Level 4 Wizard your attack modifier, assuming you have an intelligence score of 18, will be 4 (intelligence modifier) +4 (proficiency bonus) +2 (trained level proficiency) = 10.

[@jeremymerkt3526]

Thanks for clearing that up. I kept thinking that DEX would play a role in ranged spell attacks, and either STR or DEX for touch.

[@colinsmith1495]

@@jeremymerkt3526 It did for 1E, but 2E does it like 5E D&D. The spell attack is based on the spellcasting stat.

[@sirmount2636]

Very helpful. Thank you!

[@arandompersonwhowouldeatpi593]

I kinda always thought that disentrigrate was a transmutation for like balance, the other really powerful damaging spells are necromancy. Not including the energy damage, just the set damage, like wail of the banshee

[@skullsquad900]

Did you include genderbent Midoria & Bokugo on purpose?

[@OliverCovfefe]

When are you gonna make a video about the new PF1 class?

[@stevenwaters591]

I still don't fully grasp heightening a spontaneous spellcasters spell. If they have to know the spell at level they are "heightening" it to, arent they just casting it at that level? How is that "heightening"?

[@sentric4732]

Can you go over the transformation process of the lich?

[@Xjr555kid]

I don't think there is one in 2E yet. I've been pouring over the books looking for it. There are lots of rituals but not that and there's nothing about under the Lich section in the bestiary.

[@d6damage93]

There's never really been an exact game approved way to become a lich. Creating your phylactery only requires craft wondrous item, but it's always stated in lich lore that it's a long and difficult process that requires a high level spell caster. For the Medium, there's a variant archmage spirit called the Lich that requires you to spend two months creating a phylactery and one of your high level abilities requires you to spend 10,000 gp on a proto phylactery.

[@WarWagon88]

You've picked some cool images to look at while you talk, but you have giant ugly text that slowly covers it...

[@Ahreman_egy]

im glad you mentioned Ahriman and warhammer lol actually i only know Pathfinder from the pc game but i was just asking if i want to get into the rpg and make a character inspired by the Warhammer fantasy warrior priest, should i go priest or paladin?

[@d6damage93]

I think I know what you need. Have a look at the Pathfinder Warpriest. Take warhammer as your sacred weapon and the good/strength blessings.

[@Squirrelbslayer]

I'm probably the only one who is bummed about material components being reduced to generic things you pull out of a bag that has everything you need in it.

[@d6damage93]

I've seen people have a lot of fun with spell components. I think they're trying too hard to simplify the game.

[@jensn6490]

This edition really nerfed the spells, be prepared for lackluster utility. You can't hide the rope in rope trick, unseen servant only lasts for 10 minutes, the creature has to agree to be planar bound, guidance only a +1 and then they're immune for a long while. I'm sorry but I can do all of these things the right way in 5e while still being balanced with Martial characters. Don't get me wrong, I'll still be playing Pathfinder 2e, it will just never be a magic user

[@p00tis]

"5e" "balanced martial character" Please pick one or the other.

[@colinsmith1495]

And the worst part is, they didn't even solve the problem they were complaining about, which is wizards scaling exponentially. Wizards still get things like Maze, Prismatic Wall, Reverse Gravity, Teleport, Wish, Resplendent Mansion. In essence, they took away the low-mid level power (where spellcasters were arguably most balanced and most play happens), but didn't change them at higher-levels where a wizard can legitimately replace an entire party.

[@eyezerocool]

btw ty for the advice.. could you give a review of my classes and races.. maybe a couple.

[@smile-tl9in]

ritual take at least an hour to perform. It is a bit long to do the cast-without-spell-slot like in 5e. Between that and the much more limited spell slots i hope the additionnal ressources pools compensate that

[@d6damage93]

That's not the purpose of rituals in P2. 5E uses ritual casting to make spell casting more economical and for utility. In P2 rituals are big expensive spells that do things that aren't normally possible. A good example is create undead. It's not possible with normal spells. The only way to get undead minions is with a ritual.

[@smile-tl9in]

@@d6damage93 is there a system in 2E that extend casting stamina for utility ? As it stands we have very few spell slots to work with

[@josephknutson1700]

artwork at 13:31, could anyone tell me who made it?

[@Answerisequal42]

Honestly I do not like how they handled prepared casting in PF2. Its just to rigid to use. Spontaneous heightening should always be possible if you have a remaining higher spell slot. And spell slots should not be consumed on preparation but on cast. How can you predict that you would need a second casting of a spell for the next whole day?

[@ATinyWaffle]

Exactly. It's less like spellcasting and more like you are choosing a select number of cards from a deck you make in the morning knowing nothing about what might happen during the day. Oh, I have Fly in my spellbook and prepared it once but I already used it to cross that canyon an hour ago. Now when I fall down a chute and get trapped I can't fly out but at least I can cast Fireball twice...

[@colinsmith1495]

@@ATinyWaffle To be fair, that's the way Vancian magic has always worked in D&D since the beginning. Spontaneous casting (sorcerers and bards, for example) are a relatively new thing.

[@undrhil]

Pathfinder 2e reminds me more and more of D&D 4e.

[@connorfranks120]

yep, hope it dies like 4e

[@SheppiTSRodriguez]

I played that version to death, Is nothing like it.

[@NaskaRudd]

Yeah it's nothing really like 4E in actual play

[@Pyriold]

Don't know where this is coming from, it's absolutely *nothing* like 4e. 4e made everybody the same basically, P2e is doing the opposite.

[@undrhil]

@@Pyriold primal power source. Feat based multiclassing...

[@falsehero2001]

>Using the official Wrath of Magnus trailer >Not using the TTS redub Look at this cookie I found.

[@Zarsla]

You forgot about signature spells.

[@philipboardman1357]

In my opinion, the Jedi are a good example of primal casters. The Jedi do not draw their power from faith in their philosophy, but rather from the force in every cell of their bodies.

[@Gashren]

Then could they "transplant" those power cells to other beings? (like they did in Darths and Droids webcomic - darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0086.html)

[@Pyriold]

With enough mental gymnastics you could put jedi "magic" into any of those 4 traditions.

[@philipboardman1357]

@@Gashren of course.

[@Rene9adeRed]

Spells in 2E appear underpowered... so underwhelming...

[@SheppiTSRodriguez]

Cantrips are massively better. And Focus spells can be used in all encounters. I Agree, utility has been greatly nerfed, but I think it was needed, Wizards did whatever the fuck they wanted after level 10.

[@Xjr555kid]

@@SheppiTSRodriguez That's a valid point. Casters haven't been nerfed so much as just had their "do whatever the fuck I want" card taken away.

[@philipboardman1357]

True, but they fit well into the system. We have to view the system as a whole. So far, I'm impressed.

[@colinsmith1495]

@@SheppiTSRodriguez The big problem I see is that.... wizards can still do whatever they want after level 10. It's mainly levels 1-9 where their options have been taken away, and that's where they fit best with martials. I consider it a failed attempt. And yes, cantrips are much better.... for damage. And blaster spells are still potent. It's just all utility, field control, debuff, buff, etc that's been taken away. Casters are basically more powerful but more limited archers until lvl 10+.