Pathfinder Deities - Abadar

[@Podfinder]

Correction: Slavery is not currently practiced in Cheliax. Abrogail Thrune outlawed the practice in 4722 for PR reasons. It was replaced with wage slavery and debt slavery. Regardless, the church of Abadar was prominent in Cheliax both before and after the ban, so my point about Abadar being willing to compromise on his beliefs regarding slavery still stands.

[@naomicoffman1315]

Slavery isn't practiced; instead, they practice slavery and slavery. I see what you did there.

[@rakdosorthvet5031]

Serfdom?

[@Grayves_X]

Big fan of these videos and the little bits of your own personality you put in them. The "by your boot straps" line caught me of guard and made me crack up

[@Podfinder]

Thanks! I usually catch some flak in the comments for remarks like that, so I love it when people find them entertaining.

[@Grayves_X]

@@Podfinder in my mind it definitely makes it better! It's a little seasoning of personality which makes it better.

[@Gamer-gd4iw]

Loving the series, can't waint what more you will bring!

[@Pastulio1215]

Absolutely love these videos. I didn't mean to but I ended up binging them all in about a day. I look forward for the day you do a video on my druid's god, The Lantern King.

[@UltraVioletKnight]

Abadar might not like Urgathoa but Urgathoa likes Abadar

[@beowylfen]

Abadar is such a neat diety. Id love yo play a cleric dedicated to him

[@SigurdBraathen]

You're the First Vault of Pathfinder Lore, Podfinder! (^___^)

[@Ophirr33]

I'd love to see videos like this for the various nations and peoples of golarions, this is definitely one of the most digestable breakdowns of pathfinder lore I've found

[@Podfinder]

Mythkeeper does some great nation breakdowns for Pathfinder lore, though his videos are usually a bit longer.

[@aaronwilson8309]

I'm living for all the little jabs you take at real world ideologies in your videos. The soap box moment in this one was perfection! I could watch your content all day. Keep up the amazing work!

[@zenjr1004]

Loved the joke on the soap box.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

I know this is a channel focused on Pathfinder, but it makes me a little sad that the Starfinder version of Abadar didn't get a shout out! I don't get to play Starfinder very often, but when I do, Abadarcorp is guaranteed to make an appearance!

[@Podfinder]

My plan is to branch out into Starfinder Lore after/around the premier of Starfinder 2e. So stay tuned!

[@AgentWebs]

Abadar is by far the most evil "non-evil" deity

[@Podfinder]

Lawful neutral means he's okay with injustice and he gets to pretend it's for principled reasons. At least that's how I play it.

[@velemamba260]

Personally, I like Abadar quite a lot as a diety and I think he's a good representation of lawful neutrality that's not just lawful evil in a shiny coat. I see his willingness to work with the likes of Asmodeus and to tolerate slavery despite being fundamentally against it as valuing mortal freedom, in a way. He wants mortals to establish a framework within which he believes they will be best able to thrive, but once that framework has been established, he leaves mortals free to choose what they build upon it. If a civilization chooses to enforce slavery, then even though his doctrine believes that it's inherently corrupting, if that's what the lawful authorities of the city have established, his church won't get in the way of that. Their church focuses deeply upon stamping out corruption in society and ensuring fair, just courts. I think it's easy to interpret the church's position as one of "well eventually they will see the problems of this system, either on their own or when the problems of it lead to misfortune. Until then we'll support its order, try to stamp out corruption and be here to pick up the pieces if things get ugly." His reputation as "god of capitalism" is also I think, a touch reductive. His doctrine also supports market regulation and a fundamental belief in community and everyone working in concert for the common good. I don't see his worship and beliefs clashing at all with say, worshippers establishing labour unions to lobby for rights and protections. And similarly, in a community where workers rights are established and recognized, I'd view the church as being against unlawful surpression of those rights. His beliefs do have their issues, but so do a lot of fully good dieties, like Shelyn's focus on beauty leaving space for traditionally "ugly" things to be ostracized or Torag's harshness to those deemed enemies whether that judgement is fair or not. Or Erastil's focus on traditionalism that can often be stifling to those who don't fit into the mold. There's plenty of fair criticism to be made, but I think his critics sometimes get too hung up on his willingness to associate with evil and ignore or take for granted the objective good things that he also stands for and supports.

[@Podfinder]

Thank you for such a thoughtful and nuanced response. I would love to see an implementation of Abadar's faith on Golarion which champions unions, worker's rights, and collective good. That would be a fascinating development. For me, his faith is mostly tainted by its acceptance in Cheliax and Druma, which expose how vulnerable Abadar and his teachings are to corruption.

[@velemamba260]

@@Podfinder That's really valid and I think that's on purpose. Abadar and his teachings are devoted to the idea of civilization, rather than the IDEAL, of civilization, so in that spirit its open to the same flaws of civilization, but can also embody the ideals of it as well, if the people involved choose to. I think having him as a religion that's flawed but very much not inherently evil also can create some interesting dynamics for a player character. An abadaran cleric PC in Cheliax who has to reckon with their religion's complictness in the nation's abuses, trying to reconcile the higher ideals of its teachings with the uglier aspects that manifest in the real world, is really juicy character drama. And as you identify in the video, it allows his church to be both an antagonist and ally in different contexts, which I think is really interesting.

[@VoteJesusNow]

Listening, I really want to like abadar. Im listening because you seem to help me like or dislike a diety more than any other

[@Podfinder]

I also struggle with Abadar. I want to like him, because he isn't explicitly evil, and the administrative capabilities of his church makes them a very useful narrative tool, but I find that his teaching devolve too easily into selfishness and greed. I've had more luck using individual Abadarian priests in campaigns rather than the whole church.

[@VoteJesusNow]

@@Podfinder you seem to emphasize your own real world morality and culture in these videos. you helped me understand that Abadar is a collection of politics religioned into one god. I really dig it. As someone that thinks humanity has lost alot of greatness since the Victorian age to a degree that i cannot understand and explain. I see it as so mythical and magical. I am so much more fond of Abadar now but I think i need to enhance him with my own narrative i develop

[@HeribertoEstolano]

Abadar: God of Capitalism. No wonder they name a Megacorp after him in Starfinder.

[@Podfinder]

Easily one of my favorite pieces of Starfinder lore.

[@rakdosorthvet5031]

God of Capitalism, ok XD

[@redblack9618]

Abadar sucks so much. Slavery MIGHT be okay, but drugs? That's where he draws the line!