Paul Kingsnorth, "Huxley and the Machine"

[@elaineroddy9958]

Wonderful speech. Lovely to listen too.

[@wapitude]

Beyond SUPERB! What a supremely well articulated, sad and sorry picture, of our present day. Precisely the feeling I have had for quite some time i.e. technology is like a thick thorny fast growing briar, shooting up and around us fast, to a point where, if we can't find away to expunge it, we will all end up like sleeping beauties. Lost and inescapably oppressed - 👹👹🙏🇮🇪🙏

[@BuckyHuxley]

As Pynchon says in his last book Bleeding Edge, the internet, designed in the Cold War, carries within it a Death Wish for the entire planet.

[@marylawilson4687]

Yes, a very sad and scary picture of our times. Tragically, very few can see it

[@piretkivi3218]

Giving your kids a little wine is harmless. S.Europeans have been doing it for centuries. Giving your kids a smartphone on the other hand...

[@farinshore8900]

It's a question of dosage.

[@martakadziolka7182]

Such a beautiful speech. It really speaks to me about the importance of preservation of myth - it is not sentimental. In terms of any individual's identity, it is incredibly important. The tragic hero in your story, the victim of an artificial world, is he perhaps a bank clerk who dreams of the stars at night? The Apollonian and Dionysian dialectic comes to mind. You need BOTH emotion and reason to have a human!!

[@GreenNinjaZX6R636]

And at your conclusion, Paul, I'm stifling sobs and wiping tears with that big blue handkerchief from my back pocket. If I were to attempt words to explain why, it would be a lot of them. But; The Opportunity to live a human life, fully, embracing all that brings. So sayeth the 'savage'. So sayeth this old man. I have a woodshed to construct from the salvaged fence. There is firewood to split and stack. Winter is coming.

[@afifahhamilton8843]

Ditto.

[@albertarnswald]

Impressive. Many thanks to Paul and the organisation of the conference.

[@lovevolv]

"the machine that we built will never save us" - jimi hendrix

[@siyaindagulag.]

On those in favour of progress : "You already find the noise of it's wheels disturbing " (paraphrased).F.Neitzsche. Never before have the tools of opression ;the hand of totalitarianism been so all-pervasive.

[@BuckyHuxley]

We would do well, I think, to heed the Huxley of his last book Island. The Huxley, friend of Krishnamurti, who urges us to realize who we really are, beyond the thinking mind and who, in that regard, quotes Shakespeare: 'But thought's the slave of life, and life time's fool; And time, that takes survey of all the world, Must have a stop.’ The Huxley of The Perennial Philosophy. He did offer something of a way out. Great talk, you’re on it Kingsnorth! These are the issues. And Huxley, one of my favorite human beings, saw it very clearly.

[@SamanthaGluck]

That was BEAUTIFUL, Paul Kingsnorth. YOU are beautiful.

[@TheNoblot]

so is Samantha smile ☺ a beauty

[@TheNoblot]

Machines have taken over 🌎💔🤳 concrete hearts selfish tongue useless cars AI humans return to mother ship 🛳 wondering is 📏 ruler is ruling 📐 on straight line 🤡 anyway is just a waste of time you only meet 💗minds when you seat and have a chat taste a warm🥂🍻 hand /LGTP 🌎📲 LGBT is just the diversion of a dream 💤 that comes true only on the machines 💦 that have taken over for what once was a living loving life 💞

[@thurstonhowellthetwelf3220]

Enjoyed this very much... listening on my smart phone Bluetooth connected to my soundbar....😳

[@gedofgont1006]

Which surely means the whole experience has been irredeemably corrupted!😅

[@jeremytullius1393]

Another bit from R.S. Thomas: On a bone alter, with radiation for candle, we make sacrifice to the god of quasars and pulsars, wiping our robotic hands clean on a disposable conscience.

[@AspenCreekLarkspur]

The reason Huxley and many other writers and creative thinkers lived in California is that it was a very different place a hundred years ago than it is now. The beauty is the same, though there’s less of it. Most areas are still filled with gorgeous nature and the weather is great year-round in many parts of the state. It’s a wonderful place to lose yourself in contemplation even now. Unfortunately, the cities and the government policies are abysmal, but that was not the case in the early twentieth century when it was a place of great freedom. That’s why Hollywood even started there. There was were enclaves of great poets and writers in Central California, for example, and the town of Carmel was filled with fairytale houses built by creative owners (they’re still there). Maybe “the machine” has overtaken the state, but it’s still a gorgeous place that attracts millions of tourists a year for good reasons. If it were not for the current horrendous state control, I would still live there.

[@BuckyHuxley]

California is a multitude of things, unfortunately the libertarians of Silly Con Valley have become a dominant force. Cali is also the primary home of the psychedelic movement and human potential movement and humanistic psychology movement all of which Huxley played a large role in. Gary Snyder the Beat poet who lives in a cabin he built in the Sierras of CA can be very helpful in the area of how to live simply, close to nature, and with imagination. CA has the death wish culture as well as the solutions. Its just that the former is dominent now.

[@gedofgont1006]

And let's not forget that one of America's greatest writers, John Steinbeck, lived in California and wrote about it compulsively. Having just reread East of Eden, I was struck by the boundless sense of optimism, openness and capacity for joy with which Steinbeck imbues his characters. In the early 20th century, America had all before it; nothing was beyond its purview and the Hamiltons and Trasks embody this notion in a way unimaginable today. Then came WW1 and the first widespread instance of industrialized slaughter, made possible by mass produced instruments of death. Even after one hundred years, I don't think humanity has yet recovered from the shock of that period. I'd even venture to suggest that, in our collective state of unresolved trauma, we cannot help but continue to inflict the same harm on ourselves, in various repeating cycles of violence and despair.

[@efrem1]

I lived in the Monterey Bay area during the late 1960s and again in the early 1980s. The serenity of those times in that area is gone, wholly given now to tourism.

[@martin92177]

I think you make a very important point about the horror of WW1. Perhaps this really gave rise to safetyism, which is the ultimate justification for the State and the Machine - “don’t worry, trust us and we will keep you safe, warm and well fed”.

[@alomaalber6514]

Huxley was in New Mexico and LA in the 1940's when it was perfection, perfect climate and smiles. Glad his work is still read. I have read it twice.

[@spacebookpub3376]

Very reminiscent of Jacques Ellul The Technological Society where efficiency is the prevailing value

[@LeonieMart]

Thankyou and bless you Paul

[@jaysphilosophy1951]

Great speech! I wish there were more like this....

[@PilgrimMission]

Brilliant speech.

[@mikestirewalt5193]

Note he sent his children to "Steiner school", a great recommendation for those who don't know about Rudolph Steiner schools. I really admire and needed to listen to someone else who despises smartphones.

[@MadWolfMike]

Excellent Talk! Thanks so much for uploading this!

[@ALavin-en1kr]

Great talk. Martin Luther had something to do with this; the start of literalism and the end of symbolism. The Catholic Mass symbolizes Transubstantation an amazing feat and a treat for anyone who understands it. It nourishes the soul. A Minister reading his sermon is not at all the same. Everything has gone to the head and the heart has been left behind. It has gotten worse and businesses not only want your time; your work, they want your soul.

[@ALavin-en1kr]

Salvation is consciousness. There is the hard problem of consciousness which philosophy and science are puzzled by; it is the problem they cannot reduce; analyze, or control. It is fundamental; mind emerges with quantum events; is elemental and accessible. Consciousness is beyond the reach of the eliminative materialists; and the proponents of trans humanism. It is our salvation.

[@ALavin-en1kr]

It is possible to engage without being taken over. The answer is detachment, there being a part of ourselves that is engaged as necessary but the totality of ourselves is not engaged; we are not attached to the extent that it owns us; uses us,rather than us using it. We have our boundaries we know when to acquiesce, never totally, keeping a part of ourselves as the observer who is not engaged other than as observer.

[@pamelajansson4785]

Fabulous! A parallel society might be inevitable now? It will come down to choice!

[@mariabyrne1954]

An Amazing talk, thank you☘

[@afifahhamilton8843]

Paul Kingsnorth is so worth listening to! Feels like my alter ego somehow.

[@martin92177]

I’m surprised he didn’t mention the Amish - who are very Erehwon. As a way of staying out of the tentacles of the Machine.

[@janchmiel7302]

sound observations, smart analysis - specially the observation that 'Silicon Valley' is a theological project..

[@alomaalber6514]

Yes, that is good, also Huxley was in New Mexico and LA in the 1940's when it was "perfection" good weather and smiles!

[@ChrisOgunlowo]

Beautiful and brilliant, as ever.

[@lindajohnson4204]

Hebrews 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: 18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: 19 *¶Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast,* and which entereth into that within the veil; 20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

[@farinshore8900]

Technology seems to be defining "perfect world" as a world without struggle or pain. If we can agree that struggle and pain have a role to play in the "perfect world," then we don't need technology.

[@jadebayliss9388]

Yes, I’ve been thinking about PAIN a lot lately, as I’ve been trying to heal… in healing, so much emotional pain surfaces… but I know I have to go THROUGH it and not suppress it. It’s obvious that we want to avoid pain- with alcohol, pharmaceuticals, smart phones. And it’s not healthy.

[@mariepicard8385]

Aldous Huxley had great foresight.....but it is explained when you know who his brother Julian was and who he worked with. He basically told us what his brother and his friends were planning for our society.

[@faza553]

Digital ID Goes Global "No digital ID? Forget about the basics like power, phones, or even buying a home." - Nicole James

[@nickparkes8462]

I always found “2000AD “prophetic, I don’t think there will be a single global government rather as in Judge Dredd,Mega city 1,East Meg 1 and 2 Sino city,also “Rogue Trooper “shows the future of warfare

[@rossanajoubert4881]

Thank you

[@andrewbartlett9282]

Fantastic speech. Thank you

[@thomassimmons1950]

The Garden of Eden and Fall in an endless loop. "Same as it ever was Same as it ever was Same as it Ev-er-was"

[@edithcrowther9604]

Yes - but the details are different each time, and endlessly fascinating IMO. How simple and beautiful the description in Genesis is - and how complex the same situation has now become - so it warrants all of Paul's well-chosen words, IMO. For the record, which is perhaps mankind's only true glory.

[@faza553]

❤ Hygienic Autonomy: A Manifesto ❤ the LIBERTY to declare myself sick; the LIBERTY to refuse any and all medical treatment at any time; the LIBERTY to take any drug or treatment of my own choosing; the LIBERTY to be treated by the person of my choice, that is, by anyone in the community who feels called to the practice of healing, whether that person be an acupuncturist, a homeopathic physician, a neurosurgeon, an astrologer, a witch doctor or someone else; the LIBERTY to die without diagnosis. BRAVE NEW BIOCRACY: HEALTH CARE FROM WOMB TO TOMB , By: Illich, Ivan

[@edithcrowther9604]

@@faza553 Thanks - found the essay, free, thanks to the Machine! Might as well make use of the Machine for our own ends, if we are trapped in it .....

[@1stDoNoPharma]

A 24,000 year cycle, the cycle of the Sun. The Golden Era is still 1000s of years in the future. We are still in the Dark Age .

[@thomassimmons1950]

@@1stDoNoPharma Whoop...der it is!

[@dorothygorska-tyas6958]

Simply beautiful! ☆

[@willgeorge5644]

"the replacement of nature with technology", of course. "they" have been quite blatant about that, Uval Noah Harari, Klaus Swab's chief advisor has said that what shall be.

[@gedofgont1006]

Have you heard of a DARPA project called the Sentient World Simulation? They really believe it can be done. They plan to monetize, trade and control the entire global commons: that is, everything single aspect of natural life on this planet, from the plankton in the oceans to the microbes in the soil.

[@louelle8653]

Pure Gold❤

[@deviantfish2711]

Don't smash your phone with a hammer 😂those lithium ion batteries will ruin your life. Bury it in a box or something.

[@marchess286]

excellent. The machine/Matrix won't be forever. We saw this before at Babel.

[@marchess286]

The Poem Kingsnorth quoted from RS Thomas doesn't seem to match his quote. Does anyone know the name / have a link to the actual poem he cited?

[@revsamsonendigeri1976]

"Man😂 Dare But Machine Not"

[@alfmaxey6090]

Great lecture ❤

[@marchess286]

I'm going to need something more than a novelist saying "not possible" regarding asteroid mining to explain why it isn't possible.

[@SirMrManGuy]

This is brilliant.

[@mattsreptileroom]

Its interesting how orwell and huxley were both aware of wachother and each saw their vision as the final form, while seeing the others as merely transition societies

[@CC-lf7ff]

The Giver is a very good movie that describes the distopian world...

[@scientistbuddha]

There's no escape from the machine.

[@GregHillmy4re]

Seek first the Kingdom of God and all else will be added. There probably is a God? I pray that you seek Him first.

[@Mikkihiiri27]

Paul is Christian, so you know.

[@Lyra0966]

The machine always requires a plug or a battery.

[@gedofgont1006]

And that's its Achilles heel?

[@Mikkihiiri27]

the machine is pretty large, already, though, and its webs of plugs go all around. not a single source, unfortunately.

[@B_Ruphe]

The system will ensure that this is not an issue. Convenience is the order of the day. Cf. cashlessness, data to the cloud, cards and keys to implanted chips.

[@ximono]

The machine is vulnerable. In a way, I don't agree with how it's often presented as infallible or unstoppable. That myth is just part of its allure. In reality, it's bits and pieces of silicon and fiber optics held together by faith and duct tape. As it grows, it grows in complexity. Eventually it will collapse, as all artificially constructed complex systems do.

[@Artezia]

War is the foundation of Economy. War is the missing argument in this debate.

[@williamstewart7725]

I do not have a smart phone. Not on X. Not anywhere but here. On the cross of the moment.

[@mattsreptileroom]

Aldous huxley's brother Julian was the head of the eugenics society for decades. Huxley had this vision, because he was raised to expect it, and embrace it. It wasnt a warning, it was a blueprint.

[@BuckyHuxley]

It was unquestionably a warning. Aldous is not Julian. And Island is proffered as an alternative. Aldous kept up the warning until his death Nov 22, 1963. See his interview with Mike Wallace.

[@mattsreptileroom]

@@BuckyHuxley that's fair. I've always been a fan of Aldous. It's uncanny how accurate his predictions were. It's obviously the path we're set on. It's more than a work of fiction, it's the ideal of the elites. Even the ending, maybe especially it's ending.

[@BuckyHuxley]

@@mattsreptileroom thanks. I would say that its more like fascism in the sense that it seems to be a tendency in the human being that can only be countered with heightened conscious attention and a sincere, deep-seated desire for human well-being----ethical concern----which Aldous had in spades. ('Attention! Here and now boys! Here and now!") Rather than just an "ideal for the elites." It is surely something desirable to psychopaths who seem to have an advantage in our world for seizing positions of power. This psychopathic tendency in human nature is, again, something that must be understood and countered to the extent possible. I think Island, the possible form of life laid out there, deals with that among many other things.

[@writingryan301]

The solution is learning to embrace the right to suffer. It's the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We must follow the servant King and suffer as he did. We just need to preach the gospel far and wide. That is the only answer to the machine. These writers arriving at these truths is paid that God exists. But they are sign posts not the destination or solution.

[@jaysphilosophy1951]

I think we are moving from brave new world to 1984...........

[@richhoneysett5600]

27:00 interesting question. Seems as though we no longer ponder reversing totalitarian control, only which ideological party will yield the control

[@martinbutler1075]

The internet in itself is not bad but the way it has developed is certainly negative. What is missing is a deep caution. For something so powerful one would have thought it would be treated with kid gloves- but unfortunately we have not.

[@robertcox14]

I realize that archival photos are from "a time long ago." There was a time when everyone, everywhere "smoked." Unfortunately, "poopaganda" was part of the "selling" of a deadly addiction, very much a part of The Machine, so much more deeply understood today than In the time of Aldous. It is possible to reject ANY archival photo of a famous person that happened to contain a cigarette. (Oh, imagine if the photo is/was actually a "promo photo" from an advertisement for cigarettes?) Doctors recommended Camel's...Is that still ok? It certainly was NOT the fault of a "genius" like Huxley who simply got "hooked" like all the other suckers, just like me. I sure hate tobacco, after quitting in 1991. I have lived on to 73 because I quit smoking. Ten years older than my father, who died at the "normal smoker's age" of 63. Sorry for the digression, I MUST attack every attack I witness.

[@kentvanschuyler9520]

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. Let him who hath eyes to read+++

[@RobertMacleod-h3b]

I think without the internet i would have missed a lot and iam 70

[@ximono]

There are alternatives to the internet, they're just not widely distributed yet. (Keyword: Distributed. The internet has become centralized, commercialized, censured.)

[@markkeogh2190]

Did this man ever apologize for the nonsense he spouted during the start of the pandemic. ? Like other conspiracists he made outlandish claims and then, when his predictions were shown up as patent nonsense, he simply moved on to the next thing. Ah yes the golden, glorious past which never existed.

[@ryue65]

My tendency is to forgive, but not forget. Hopefully, the other person comes around in due course and acknowledges. I’ve been wrong on many points.

[@wendyjoywelsh]

He asks: Which tools should we get rid of? Answer: The tools which are used to oppress us. We should not get rid of most of our technological advances. I disagree with this guy that the system isn’t really the problem. The system is definitely the problem. The system puts the steering wheel of progress in the hands of the oligarchs, which literally have us creating these tools which enslave us. We are directed to create these tools which monitor and control us.

[@martin92177]

You can’t change society from the top down - which is why Jesus came in at the bottom, and stayed there until the Machine killed him.

[@letitzibz]

Another option would be reinventing society by adopting a resource-based economy, and most importantly renouncing the Monetary system and its profit-oriented madness. Renouncing Technology altogether is unnecessary since it is the result of human creativity and must be celebrated. But it does need a shift in its purpose. It doesn´t have to be Ai or going back to the Dark Ages or living with carriages and candles :)) No need for this kind of extremes. What the world needs to understand is that the profit-based society is what created this nightmare. Abolishing the monetary system the way you see suggested in the Venus Project is the closest to a solution that I have ever seen. Check the Venus Project - Jaque Fresco.

[@rickmcentee9204]

Fair warning on trends to resist but way too pessimistic IMO. The prophesy this is based on has largely failed but people prefer doom and horror movies to enjoying all the spirit opening, community building and personal connectivity of modern times. To each their own... 👍

[@ximono]

What prophecy are you referring to? While I agree with much of what he says, I think that pessimism can do more harm than good. We don't need more doom and gloom, people have enough of that as it is. What we need is imagination, which they touched upon in the Q&A, to look for better alternatives to the status quo. And then move within our own lives towards that.

[@rickmcentee9204]

​@@ximonoclimate and technological apocalypticism

[@willgeorge5644]

at 11:27 To become God.... This is not only what people secretly hope for, but it is God's desire for us. This is the basis of Christianity. It's "Christ in YOU, the hope of Glory".

[@mongolianqwerty123]

If Christ is already within us, we do not have to create him externally. To attempt to become God is the Antichrist pattern, which resembles the Christ pattern but inverts it (fooling many)

[@willgeorge5644]

@@mongolianqwerty123 "already", as in before what? Is the Holy Spirit in you, is the Holy Spirit God?

[@willgeorge5644]

@@mongolianqwerty123 I was first tempted to say I agree on all points! But then, I thought I better clear up the many questions this raises! 1: "If Christ is already within us", guess this means you do believe this, but what does it look like for you? Is it different to the Holy Spirit being in you? How?

[@alexwr]

God showed us what we were supposed to be like... and he did that by humbling himself and becoming human through the incarnation of Jesus. Adam wanted to be like God. He was cast out of the garden for it. The Tower of Babel was built to reach Heaven, and they were scattered. Any attempt in the Bible for humans to become God was met with a clear warning that this is not the way to live. I'll change the emphasis of the verse you provided to show what I think is the meaning: "CHRIST in you, the hope of Glory" 'Christ' is the hope of Glory, not the 'you'. Without Christ, we can't save ourselves.

[@willgeorge5644]

@@alexwr He showed us THE WAY. Refering to Isaiah 30:21 “Your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, 'This is the way, walk in it,' whenever you turn to the right hand or whenever you turn to the left”. He said that the Holy Spirit had been WITH THEM in the past but soon to be IN them, guiding everything you do. The spirit is like the wind, you can't see Him, but you can see the effect on your life. Hre will also "lead you into ALL truth, thus "I am the way, the truth and the life. It's not Klause'es "Private =public partnership" but a God-man partnership if you like.

[@uncivilizedtom1898]

But why stop at smart phones? There is no reason to that decision - completely arbitrary - he still flew to this conference : why is flying ok? What are his ethics and how do they steer his action making?? He is still massively an instrument and part of the machine …

[@rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr1]

Yawn

[@alexwr]

By that logic, every step is arbitrary, and in some sense, yes, it is. There is no rules or laws when it comes to this. However smartphones are the newest widespread technologies, so we should be questioning those first, and then looking back at the technologies we have previously used. I think we should look back and make informed decisions now we have hindsight, rather than just bowing to the current technological 'progression'.

[@markkeogh2190]

Would you not be better placed identifying the actual enemy which is Capitalism. Why not address that directly but talk of ‘powers’ and some vague entity. Why not attack the actual practical enemy - capitalism and the human ego. Why ? Perhaps because the way of the conspiracist is to partially identify the problem but provide the wrong answers. The answers which suit the status quo.

[@alexwr]

Because these problems would also be present in societies that don't use Capitalism as their main economic system. It IS more vague than just saying "capitalism bad" and calling it a day.

[@markkeogh2190]

@ so vague though as to be meaningless ? ‘The machine ‘ means all things to all people.

[@alexwr]

​@@markkeogh2190 Fair enough! But to a certain extent, 'The Machine' as mentioned here IS quite vague. It encompasses a lot of technological progression which is why it is an hour long talk and not a short. It is, but is not limited to: 1. The deliberate addicting nature of social media. 2. A ever growing surveillance network 3. The ever increasing demand of capital through a clearly flawed system for this level of technological growth 4. The erosion of privacy 5. The consolidation of power Naturally, 'The Machine' is going to be vague because it encompasses a lot. It is also vague because it is now (sort of) self-sustaining. It is not a system that any person can opt-out of anymore. Capitalism, and it's current implementation is definitely part of it, but to pretend that the exact same problems wouldn't exist in, say, a Communist society, or a Corporatist system (arguably what we have already) is, to me, absurd.

[@charlesweinberg9511]

Crushed stacians (crabs) Crabs walk backwards Just to learn Always me Throughly spurned Born and bread In this small town Where psychics Souls and people Ground Children of Gods’ Lesser Kiss Tides are flowing Tides are missed Remember dear dead Brother Al Much to Old To be my Pal Men are always Cast in Stone No North Direction Home Like Water In a stagnant Pool O’Cock the O’s So Fing Cool I leave now All I L O V E At my throat With Velvet Glove My Wife, my Children All my Homes’ Cut ME Loose At last A L O N E ! Kiss88 KMA

[@charlesweinberg9511]

Clatu Barda Nicto “The Day the Earth…… Kiss88