Destiny 2: How Do You Miss Revenue Projections By 45%?

[@magetsalive5162]

"We're not making the money we expected we were making. In fact, it's doing a lot worse than we expected. Clearly, we're not nickel-and-diming the playerbase hard enough. Raise prices and charge for more things! Push Eververse harder! Oh, and we're going to lay off a bunch of people. This will solve everything." - 100% genuine certified corporate geniuses at work

[@StormierNik]

Suits are fucking braindead scum that should be liable for corporate incompetency and sabotage no different from being forced to take responsibility for child neglect. Higher ups should not be able to completely fuck EVERYTHING up then get away with it by just leaving the company at some point.

[@Fibulator]

It really is a shame. I've been voting with my wallet ever since Rise of Iron. I played a decent bit of D2 right at the start, and a good bit of Witch Queen. But not a penny more in between. I tried the latest expansion and it was so depressing. Truly a shell of a once great game.

[@Bthakilla4rilla]

I don't think they actually think like that but I could still believe it regardless

[@Fibulator]

@@Bthakilla4rilla then what explains the drastic uptick in monetization and the refusal to combine any old expansions into bundles with a discount for new players? Or the lack of actual content to grind? The story being split into two full price expansions instead of the one it was originally supposed to be? They don't make these decisions for shits and giggles.

[@jaketheman1577]

​@iimFibs probably cause they are going broke. I would have start cutting the fat too. Better to cut a leg or arm off then to straight of die right? Especially if the leg or arm is already rotted.

[@Big_Yum]

Strange how they were so scared of over-delivery, they seemingly under delivered to the point where potentially the entire studio's future is in question

[@fysean]

Take a page out of larians book - understate and then overdeliver. Easier said than done tho.

[@constellarnova6782]

That quote of over delivery will stick with me forever. I'll never understand their thought process; Forsaken was the spark Destiny 2 needed and Bungie said they "over delivered" and wouldn't do it again. That, and Bungie's unwillingness to put in resources into things(Gambit) because players "don't really care about it" are what eventually brought them to this. What a tragedy.

[@Big_Yum]

@@constellarnova6782 it’s crazy, bungie management wanted to prevent employees from adding a bunch of little embellishments or features cu they were scared of burnout?! Now employees are burning out just to keep the game from falling apart. What a terrible approach to live gaming 😵‍💫

[@LordSaliss]

@@fysean Sadly Bungie always does the opposite because they have such a great marketing team. Hype things to the moon to get pre orders and then deliver a 10 hour experience for $50-60.

[@CouchCit]

It was more of a misfire/miscalculation rather than under-delivery, but yeah it is ironic

[@Morkins324]

Missing revenue projections by 45% is almost certainly down to looking at the previous two years, which had dramatically inflated player engagement due to COVID lockdowns, Work From Home (less time wasted commuting and thus more time available to play games), and a generally pretty sparse game release schedule for 2021/2022 due to numerous product delays. They looked at the growth and engagement that was happening under the above circumstance and incorrectly assumed that it would continue despite those factors waning. It is a classic example of failing to understand the underlying cause of revenue trends, and assuming that those trends will continue to be applicable despite a shifting market. Compound the above with the fact that Lightfall was not good and the broader economy has struggled with inflation. A worse product, a worse economy, less available time for users, and greater competition for users time. It is a perfect storm of factors to lead to less than stellar results. And Bungie somehow managed to fail to identify any of those factors and projected revenue at or above the previous years. If they need to lay off someone, they should lay off whomever does their fucking financial analytics, because the writing was on the wall for all of these things well before 2023, and failing to account for these factors is just sloppy work.

[@ypcomchic]

Well said. I agree.

[@okamidt3298]

That’s literally how all businesses have been treating COVID. I worked at Lowe’s for a while and literally every week they were complaining about how they were down compared to the year before… like yeah of course we fucking are, that was during covid when everyone was given money. The rich don’t see logic, they see how big their pile of money is and if it’s smaller than it was before for any reason, it’s a problem.

[@Kevo2blessed]

You hit the nail right on the head

[@JackdotC]

No, I'm sure the accountants told them all of this. They made like a billion dollars, they pay people to look at this stuff. However they do not tell this stuff to the CEO and board members, who are the ones setting the projected revenue bc they know 1 they would ignore it and 2 it would just make them angry and maybe cost them their job if they gave them the bad news. under capitalism if you aren't making even more profit than last year this yeah your failing, even if the amount of profit is still massive.

[@ArchAngelKnights]

Really? Saying covid had a factor in this? Don't be stupid

[@theklporter6262]

Perhaps the true “Destiny killer” was Bungie itself

[@andrewguise7058]

The exotic mission playlist was another great idea; some of the best missions in the game….locked behind a convoluted paywall

[@irelanddddd]

Presage is good but the other missions are…. So uninspired. And when they bring back the other missions they will miss the “secret” part now. I’m hopeful for other good things but the modern exotic missions are meh :(

[@ypcomchic]

Secret exotic missions should be secret like they were on D1. It wasn’t advertised anywhere but by word of mouth when people found them. Great times.

[@andrewguise7058]

@@ypcomchic oh I agree, and I would hope they continue to do that. But, if the options are to remove them from the game or put them in a playlist so that they are accessible to newer players, I’d prefer the latter.

[@a36538]

I feel like the entire game is a convoluted paywall

[@MaxMiller94]

"We're like a family" always means, "Sacrifice your personal time to overwork for us, and we'll boot you the second we feel like it."

[@omensoffate]

When a company says they are a family. Proceed with caution

[@marinawolf]

@Max, I have worked almost exclusively with tech startups for over 20 years and you are spot on. I've seen it countless times, I've never seen that energy flowing in the opposite direction.

[@ApostleOfZeus199]

Didn't they get exposed for toxic work culture not too long ago? Lol

[@Thinkcrown]

Reminds me of Linus talking about “being a family” of a company. It really is just managers deluding themselves into thinking its okay they hold all the cards, as they’re the metaphorical father figure, so they know whats best for you silly children employees / customers.

[@WaveForceful]

Thats life as an SE, it's the most toxic work environment ever. They expect everything from you.

[@noxiebobo]

I think players are finally speaking to bungie in the most severely honest manner possible - with their wallets.

[@JDxxxxxx]

It’s about time

[@Thund3rstone]

You do not know that. It is one of many possibilities. Other options: - Sony gave them high reveneue expectations (after aquisition) - They themselves set unrealistic revenue expectations (before aquisistion) - Their projects drained budget more than they thought ... and so on.... Short version: % math is a bitch

[@coasterplay1062]

First comment i read about that topic that doesnt come to conclusions by unconfirmed sources. Peopel are just little sheeps that want their narrative supported by anything as long as they can say: told you bruh. Its disgusting. @@Thund3rstone

[@carlosurquiza1021]

@@coasterplay1062go cry somewhere else

[@mbandreddy]

@@coasterplay1062 yes 100%. yesterday all these people angry on Sony and news changed now they were angry on Bungie. This happens in every industry when they don't make money. Lays off are common & most exp people were lay off from jobs.

[@FloridaMann123]

It's so astounding to me how corporate accounting works. You can set your projections at any number, regardless of reality, and if you miss those projections on paper you've lost money, even though you may have still turned a profit and made more money than last year. I think missing projections by 45% clearly shows Bungie management was boosting the projections to get a larger deal from Sony. Maybe they were even cooking the books, who knows. I wouldn't put it past this management team anymore.

[@derka4754]

Probably hired their accountant based on hair color and gender instead of actual skill with numbers.

[@anything_but_this]

@@derka4754 wow man, what a helpful and insightful comment chock-full of analysis and wit. You’re truly the mind of a generation. Do you have any other hilarious comments for us? Some more biting satire, perhaps? We’re just dying to know what your gigabrain will come up with next.

[@Nero7441]

I wonder if that person is fired as well.

[@WobiKabobi]

@@anything_but_thisyou’re extra offended but he’s right, they’d rather pander than just make a good product.

[@badgerapocalyps2546]

They missed projections based on how seasons and expansions previously sold before Bungie started pushing cookie-cutter content. I'm shocked SHOCKED that people won't pay for shitty substandard content. Well not that shocked

[@Luminary2024]

Management blame-shifting to lower level employees and evading accountability is common-placed and likely the case here. Executives made key decisions to omit community feedback on PvP development, narrative focus expansions and adjustments to more consumer-friendly monetization models and now the staff who had no say in those aspects bear the burden of their failures.

[@senseofpermanence]

Unfortunately Bungie needs a C-Suite refresh and that's sadly not going to happen unless the company suffers significantly. We've tossed around the sentiment to "vote with your wallet" before, but I think this is the time to finally band together as a community and do it. It's more than likely that a lot of employees suffer from it, but if anyone wants to see this company and community get back on track then a relatively violent shake up needs to happen. The devs love and care for this game, and they deserve a leadership suite that listens to them. For the first time in over 15 years enjoying Bungie games, I have a cancelled my pre-order.

[@Tildryn]

You'll find that communities truly vote with their wallets not by banding together, but rather fragmenting as they lose interest. Banding together as a community to 'vote with your wallets' doesn't work, because you're still maintaining a community that revolves around the thing you're supposed to be protesting by depriving them of your custom. Apathy is what harms the pocketbook of the entertainment vendor, not organised boycotting.

[@jaketheman1577]

We dont need to do anything its already happening. Bungie is the emperor and the players are horus lupercal. 😂 freakin horus heresy 45% is devastating.

[@danaudetore98]

if u rly willing to vote with ur wallet, u r going to experience the end of destiny in less than a year at this point. the statement about wallets was adressed more to eververse situation than what we have now. as for me, i just dont want destiny to end like this

[@hiarus8850]

I don't think that's gonna happen, sure some will definitely stop buying DLC's but I'm pretty sure the majority is already too deep in to stop; all the players I know have sunk ridiculous amounts of time and money into this game and they wanna see it through, so banding as a community is just not gonna happen What I do think is gonna happen is what we are already seeing the start of; people are gonna slowly lose interest until they just drop the game I personally did that back in beyond light, it just got too expensive and time consuming for me to keep going

[@kingkordy]

Yep. I have played every expansion good and bad for 10 years. Not this one. I’m sick of there lies

[@GeremyG]

Either Bungie upper management set the projections way too high or the multiple layers of monetization finally became enough for many players.

[@Reardon.]

the latter is the case for me

[@milosradmilac8911]

Probably both.

[@FlipFlob13]

Maybe the eververse camel has shown to be breaking its back? People have complained over the monetization for a while and it’s possible we’re looking at the result of player sentiment being so negative.

[@yourewrong9028]

Realistically, I think it’s a combination of many things. 1. Projections set too high. 2. The bloated and downright confusing monetization. 3. Lightfall was disappointing, so less people pre-ordered final shape than expected. 4. Final Shape is supposed to be conclusive, so a lower percentage of people bought the deluxe edition for extra story stuff than usual. I think it’s a combination of all four of these things.

[@mills2639]

It's most likely both. The game probably still makes a crap load of money but not as much as it usually does.

[@jaguargod3483]

By treating your player base the way that Bungie treats us. They ignore complaints and concerns, they let problems for players persist, but they fix player exploits immediately, they neglected PVP, they charge expansion prices for armor sets, they nickel and dime players for everything, and then on top of all that, we found out they are diverting D2 money toward developing Marathon and other game. I imagine that players are just fed up with it.

[@joshuaarcenaux5431]

WERE LISTENING.

[@elizabethwinterveil9950]

​@@joshuaarcenaux5431I mean, they were. Management just doesn't care. The devs do but there's nothing they can do about it.

[@ThePosrein]

Yep. This 100%.

[@CrimsonFIame]

​@@elizabethwinterveil9950Some of the devs care. I still remember some arguing with people who weren't being hostile and even blocking them

[@emerald6597]

@@CrimsonFIame the *devs* are not the ones making shit decisions involving monetization. lightfall was definitely rushed. it is very likely a situation where developers are actually not allowed to work enough to make the game good, because that might raise expectations

[@thescavwithnothingtolose1224]

If I was employed at bungie and survived this round, I'd immediately begin looking for new work.

[@marinawolf]

That would be short-sighted. If Sony takes over - as they should - that could be very good for both employees and players.

[@darkhelmet12e47]

They need to unionize. Management wants to run thr game with less people? Try running the game with NO people.

[@jackiechimp6878]

@@marinawolfI am fairly certain that the higher ups pretty much agreed they’re not going to interfere with bungie’s making of their games, and they really have no reason to. As long as Bungie gives Sony the help they need for the new live service games, they’re not going to ask any more of the company.

[@GhostoftheTenthEye]

@@marinawolf how hard do they have to beat you for you to leave??

[@kristophershephard7359]

@jackiechimp6878 😆 💀 ☠️ I'm weak now

[@bonelessthincrust]

I eventually stopped playing because they refuse to put matchmaking in raids. Objectively speaking, raids are the biggest content in this game. There is no point sinking time and investment into building up your character if you're permanently locked out of the core content. I tried to "LFG" a raid in Destiny 1 and it was an absolute nightmare. It took over an hour to get off the ground. I tried again in Destiny 2 and it was even more difficult. We never even got a full team of 6 after 45 minutes. Just put the fucking matchmaking in the game and if the run fails then oh well, at least we got to play SOMETHING.

[@reffa2858]

Ive been hearing so much about the insidious practices Bungie engages in. High micro transactions, sunsetting content, reselling old content, under delivering because they feel good content cost them too much. And they said (and players believed them) that they did all this to remain independent and maintain job security for its employees. But then you hear revenue projections down by 45%. Employees being laid off. Yeah, these people are liars and they been lying to its player base this entire time....

[@megarockman99]

I agree that there is a massive disconnect between the business side and the creative side. The business side wants more money but not allowing the creative side to do what they know how and do best to bring in the money that the business wants.

[@THE_ASSAULT]

Just Layoff the business 😂

[@box8831]

Maybe there is a massive disconnect but the creatives have no idea how to run a business and they have been running an awful game financially looking at the last year with massive player drops, unpopular story and bad story and new player integrations with no new seasonal innovation. All the fault of the creative and game dev side. I think people need to acknowledge that the game dev side of Bungie has partially been the problem in the eyes of management.

[@calebhughes975]

​@@box8831Except that it's not the fault of the creative side. The devs are extremely passionate and want to make something great. The issue is Bungie corporate repeatedly telling them "not to over deliver" which has led to the creative directions being a long, bad, meandering road instead of an actual good story. The devs clearly want to put cool shit into the game, but they're told no, and instead of just pushing lightfall back again, like Witch Queen, to let the devs work, they gutted it. Cut the whole thing in half, focused it on strand, and then made final shape the actual thing we all thought we were getting with Lightfall. The Execs need to stop thinking about their wallets and let the devs work again.

[@lunagrace2872]

@@box8831 Maybe you don’t understand that the regular devs actually know what the most of the fans wants and they know how to fix for the better. But when you got management says no to the solutions, then who’s fault is it. Which has happened in Bungie management. In the video game business most of the time devs has a better chance of making a more profitable because they understand the fans and what makes a video game fun then top execus who have no idea what they are talking about and doing. Which is the reason why video game AAA has been stagnant because the executives doesn’t want to change anything for a franchise.

[@CrossfitWarrior]

The first descendent drops Feb just going to switch. It was nice destiny bros

[@ahmedalmuhairi81]

They didn't truly understand the repercussions of Lightfall's narrative failure

[@momomichael2262]

"it was an experiment" LOL

[@Albert_O_Balsam]

It actually made me give the game up altogether, I'd been playing since the Destiny Alpha, but there's only so much bullshit you can tolerate as a consumer.

[@ahmedalmuhairi81]

@@Albert_O_Balsam I'm torn. Definitely not pre-ordering. I'm going to wait until TFS has been out a few days. If the reviews are mostly 9's and 10's, I'll purchase the base expansion. If not I'll catch the details on stream.

[@icantsleepman]

​@@ahmedalmuhairi81same approach here. They gotta get it absolutely right to retain even a part of their current player base. And I'm absolulty not looking forward to the 6 months long content draught that is coming next season

[@Plowzan]

Marathon siphoning resources from Destiny is also a huge issue. Quality overall suffered and here we are.

[@K3vyB]

Marathon is going to be a hilarious failure to behold

[@reignover-ed2rt]

No one gives a shit about marathon fr

[@JC-Alan]

I have a feeling the reason it even exists in its current capacity is because of the Jim Ryan focus on live service games (that is also the reason he likely "retired" early)@@K3vyB

[@HarperLylia]

I've been saying this from the beginning. How do you move resources to a brand new project at the end of a 10 year journey of their most profitable IP?! On top of that, it seems like the Extraction-Shooter genre has been a bit of a fad and pretty niche overall.

[@twit_t9668]

Paul I think this idea of this season being one of the best we have had kinda misses why everyone is turning away. The seasonal model has not faced any level of innovation since 3x7 upgrade row was added over 3 years ago. You get a seasonal currency to exchange for rewards, you can focus/craft whatever weapon you need, you have to play the semi-short seasonal activity which is tied to seasonal stories continuously, maybe run some of the supplemental seasonal activities for a few times which offers the same rewards, rinse and repeat until you have everything. It's just a checklist. There's barely any engagement in how players interact with seasons. The stories are always saving the world, whilst also being completely disconnected from the wider Destiny 2 storytelling at large. Splicer has nothing to do with Beyond Light. Plunder has 0 relevance to Witch Queen. You can go on and on but people are sick of it, and it feels lazy - even Bungie was slacking with the S22 ending being kept in the lore books.

[@XAMJ54]

big true

[@sliceserve234]

your's is the best comment in this vast sea of stupid comments.

[@ToxicMothBoi]

Remember, lightfall streches across seasons becausee...because they couldnt finish a story for us to play in time... I dont know ehat they were smoking when they said that but it was a massive dissapointment

[@FirestormDDash]

Thats the big thing. I was tired of seasonal by the time I played the first 2. Early D2 was about us failing to be a hero pretty much. D1 was just mystery fantasy. I liked those premises much more and even the game design philosophy.

[@martyk656]

Seasons suck. "Wow, this season's shit sandwich is one of the better shit sandwiches I've ever eaten".

[@VelvetKey]

I can point to the exact moment where it all went downhill for me and my friends: when Bungie introduced the major power bump to enemies in the seasonal content, but did not provide scaling instances for us to choose from if we weren't into getting our ghosts handed to us because we're "casuals". There were 7 of us that played together and enjoyed bumbling our way through DSC a few times, as well as a few other activities. Now? I'm the only one left that still even bothers with the season pass, and I'll admit that last season, I had to buy my final levels because I just don't have time to "get good". Turns out, when you make a game into another job, people get disheartened because it's not fun to feel like your best efforts don't count towards anything. Letting players pick their level of skill and engagement LIKE THEY USED TO DO would have been an easy solution. But now? Good luck with that. I'm out after this season. IF I decide to give Bungie any more of my money, it will be AFTER watching reviews of the Final Shape first. Oh, and if Bungie really wanted to milk us for more money? Ask LotRO or Warframe what players will do when you give them their own house or ship interior to customize.

[@corlissimo]

Hmmm… Something about “Counting your chickens before they hatch” comes to mind. As a player with over 9500 hours in the Destiny franchise (it’s the only game I have been playing since its release) The Final Shape was the first time that I consciously decided that I would not pre-order. Bungie made me reach this decision. They did it with all the Eververse MTX stuff, the incessant copy/paste for seasonal activities, Season pricing changes, amongst other items. The last couple years there has been this increasing feeling that there is a tendency towards straight up cash grabs. Even it they aren’t actually cash grabs, that doesn’t matter if player FEEL like it’s a cash grab. If they feel that then you’re doing something wrong. IF I do buy Final Shape, I’ll likely not buy the full access, opting to pay per season instead. I just don’t know. But that’s the thing… This never used to even be a decision for me, especially since Destiny is the only game I play. It was always a given that I’d buy it all because I was always playing it all. No longer, sadly. My heart goes out to all those laid off. Thank you to all is to for putting your collective hearts & souls into giving us the best you could, no matter if you’ve been there for decades, or just a few months. 💕

[@ExtraordinaryFate]

For someone who claims they played nearly 10 THOUSAND hours, I find it very hard to believe you won't buy it.

[@emilsingapurcan8054]

i hope you can find love in whats left of the game, and in other games as well. enlisted and deep rock galactic have been great for me since i stopped essentially focusing on the game (and on smaller scales, minecraft, teardown, civ 6, airships, gungeon... yeah, changing it up is helpful imo)

[@WiseSam95]

Do yourself a favor. Pick up a side game or two or least depending on how much time you have for gaming.

[@ericMT]

That’s a lot of hours. It my only game too but I don’t have a lot of free time so I only have a few thousand since D1. I plan on getting every expansion they sell even if it’s not great. We’ve seen complaints about how this game sucks since before it was launched. I still enjoy it.

[@DB_________]

​@@ExtraordinaryFatea year of his life

[@Angelssxx]

You know Paul, this reminds me of bungie´s mantra “we can’t overdeliver content”. We seem to be in the reverse situation now, as they need to bump up content etc. This is the dangerous trend once you start to cut off the production teams in trying to sell more efficiently with less money expended. Eventually, you might end up in this kind of situation, where you drop the standards thinking the community will keep accepting everything and clearly that is a limit on that, as Lightfall showed. But you are right, this explains the management decision on an eververse´s aggressive initiative. Again, stupid decision in the long-term as artificial content doesn’t last long and can back-fired compared to the material actual content they produce.

[@WobiKabobi]

Who knew telling customers you don’t want to overdeliver would cause the entire playerbase to have much lower expectations for the quality of content, right?

[@Angelssxx]

@@WobiKabobi Ikr, what a shock! In my mind, the most downfall corporate mistake you can make is to let “your corporate greed go unchecked”, when you lose sight of all reality of the business itself only thinking in boosting up for margins. We have a say in wall street or the wall street in Brazil when you buy a stock, “past margins and profit are not indicative of future margins and profit”, meaning that nothing is guaranteed when you buy it but only the fundaments of the company´s stocks that you are buying. And this is at the root cause of the issue, Bungie´s management appears to have lost all sight for their fundaments as a company, the very principles, structure, and production which made their “product” special. Listen, there is nothing wrong in trying to gain more money, one sees more money coming in each year and gets excited. But being conservative in business can give you more money: don’t use all the money you got to buy a new house in LA, buy a middle-house property and make sure to spare at least 30% of new income to reinvest in the business itself, because that will boost the fundaments and quality of your business which is ultimately what is paying for your lifestyle. A company cannot grow if it doesn’t reinvest, and where is the reinvestment in D2 in the last years?! Their main product is D2 but want to reinvest elsewhere? Terrible Terrible decision, I would have spared 20% of d2 money and slowing building up other projects in whatever many years needed.

[@redfiend8746]

​@@WobiKabobiThen lowering content delivery standards even further and expecting everyone that's still trying to stick around to eat the turd sandwich.

[@taiidaniblues7792]

I think the problem is there is a disconnect between what we the players consider overdelivery and what the execs at Bungie think is overdelivery. I think most of the player base would consider Forsaken to be delivery, not overdelivery. It was great, everyone loved it, it kept players engaged for months and months. Anything less than that is under delivery. But Bungie execs considered it overdelivery. So, what we expect from the game isn't even a target anymore. If Bungie execs aren't even able to come close to Forsaken quality in Destiny 2 again, then it kind of seems like they just have a failing business model. Forsaken felt like what the game was supposed to be. WQ got closer, but still it wasn't the same. Also, if they completely cleaned up their monetization to make it dead simple I think they would be in a much better place right now.

[@saltysalt7339]

Imagine vaulting content has some backfire to it. Crazy.

[@xIQ188x]

As someone who has genuinely tried to get into Destiny a few times, I’m always struck by how strongly I get the impression that the developers don’t want me playing their game at all. Everything about it seems to designed put off anyone who has a passing interest and hasn’t been invested since day 1.

[@TheDarkQueen89]

Destiny is one of those games you had to be there in the beginning. I tried the new light campaign when it first launched and maybe its just me being a veteran saying it but it didn't feel like it was a very welcoming experience for new players.

[@thesonicfanboi]

I've been playing constantly for the past year (never played before August 2022) and I have to say, it feels like the community has put much more force into dampening my experience than Bungie. Everywhere I look, I cannot find a single optimist. Everyone just hates destiny and hates the devs. Not like I can blame them, but I just know that whenever I play destiny, I have a good time. But it gets harder to the more and more depressed the community gets. What hurts me the most is that I know even if Bungie fixes things, and if next season and TFS are great, players will still act like they're terrible, purely because of the company behind it

[@e2rqey]

It feels like a job, and there are wayyyyyyyy too many good games out to deal with any of that.

[@0008loser]

​@@bwhere45I kinda don't get this since what they vaulted was basically stuff nobody touched and anyways even if they did they would have to revamp it to actually be "Challenging" which is effort smd bungie hates effort

[@Shorkshire]

Nah, it's not the devs dude, it's upper management. The devs want to be passionate and want you to play, but they are handicapped by their shit tier greedy as fuck suit wearing corpo leadership

[@sudoscientist]

Speaking from both first and second hand experience, your last comment about how bad this treatment of employees is, is spot on. It sucks especially hard for the people let go (more so, obviously) but it also creates this sense of insecurity and weird mind games with ongoing employees. Knowing you could be next to go at the drop of a hat and that the company doesn't give a shit about you as a human being is tough. Especially if you're close to some of the people got fired/let go and are struggling with that, and with trying to find a new one. Gaming and tech as a whole are brutal for applicants right now, and there are tons of talented industry vets who can't regain a foothold any more than new people trying to break into it can.

[@wonkybomb1865]

Destiny for me has long felt like a second job. I’ve finally broke away this season and have been playing so many great games that I never could before and it’s been eye opening and liberating. I started to feel like I was no longer a gamer but a person who played 1 game and that was getting old.

[@stinyg]

Same. Once you stop playing Destiny ,you come to realize all the other great games you missed out on.This year had too many good games.

[@mrthor3061]

imagine this scenario; you have a dedicated devoted player base, then you do the opposite of what they want for 5 years straight, then are curious as to why they aren’t buying anything

[@trashjash]

It's so hilarious, they thought players would stick around if they waved rainbow flags at them while trying to squeeze the life out of them for cash! 😂

[@rossmorton7002]

@@bwhere45 That used to be how all games were developed before live services and games forever in early access. It's not exactly out-of-the-ordinary.

[@marinawolf]

"Miscalculated" is Bungie's very generous interpretation of their revenue report. This helps reframe Sony's recent decisions.

[@cmontes7961]

Sony threw away their hard earned money to buy a pos company and then fires all their best talent because they are a disappointment financially. This won't go well😂😂

[@298cole]

Yea its not difficult to figure out. Sony isnt even in the discussion if the true revenue amount is disclosed. I would have “miscalculated” it too. Lmao. Duh

[@qrogan799]

@@cmontes7961 We already know Sony wasn't the one who decided who got fired, it was Bungie's upper management who called who got fired and who didn't. Sony made a bad investment and Bungie decided the best thing to do about it was to make it worse.

[@Robfilomena]

They likely missed because the projections were juiced to bring up the acquisition price. In deal like this, future projections are very significant. I bet that 1.2B they set aside for retentions was highly contingent on the future performance.

[@Thund3rstone]

As you said: You bet. Without a few more meaningful numbers and facts from the case/plan we are just betting, guessing, assuming.

[@kineticstar]

I hope not! That is illegal and could force Bungie into solvency.

[@leeberto5682]

This is almost certainly what happened. Players want to think it's all because of their lack of gameplay or purchasing, but in reality, it is more likely the problem is that the Projection was highly inflated.

[@Knights_of_the_Nine]

This is exactly why Fallout 76 exists.

[@Robfilomena]

@@kineticstar If that is what happened, it is not illegal, just a product of exuberant optimism which happens when a company has an opportunity at a windfall like an acquisition. Sony had to option to believe those projections were attainable or not, and very very likely made a significant chunk of the sale price incentive-based as a way of holding the company to its claims about the future. Bungie Mgmt and all have likely lost tens of millions in incentives because of the revenue shortfall. Just giving a view based on my own experience with these things, we really don't now what actually happened

[@tombrand236]

It’s a consequence of taking their players for granted and not listening to them for years. This isn’t a surprise. I just feel bad for the people who lost their jobs and for the fall of this once great studio

[@JinGalactica]

I always wondered why everything was beginning to have a paywall, especially the new Dungeons. And the fact each new season they sneakily raise just enough for you to buy the $20 Silver. Before it was 1000, then it raised to 1,100. And now 1200. And now they push that $100+ expansion pass to you every single day, when all I want is the base DLC for The Final Shape. I also have a hunch that Bungie stepped on their own toes. Lot of us got the idea that Lightfall was the ending story. Time to defeat The Witness. My brother had to read insights and leaks on the internet to find out we have The Final Shape left. Thus, we come to where Bungie is at now 🙄

[@vugolol]

Bungie was so into the not overdelivering philosophy, they forgot to deliver the revenue to their execs 💀

[@daMillenialTrucker]

funny how that works, bunch of reckless idiots

[@kringslayerkai3044]

Bro you did not just... 💀

[@arthur.m2528]

The sheer amount of fumbling and ball dropping happening in the countdown to finale of this 10 year BS journey is hysterical, and all of it compounded in a year like this, it's such an unbelievable fustercluck

[@daMillenialTrucker]

it really is a cluster 🦆

[@ToxicMothBoi]

Truly a clustertruck moment

[@GandolfFireDong]

I have to agree, I'm just at a point where I'm tired of Bungie lying to us and under delivering while asking for more and more money

[@jonathonshirley4169]

Bro that be careful of over delivery image has gotta be the most financially damaging thing bungie has ever released lol

[@omensoffate]

That dude was proud to say it as well. And people still shilled over bungie after that

[@theodorecyngiser2841]

This, to me, is the closest this game has ever been to full on dying out. I know that people will rush to point the record low player numbers during some of the most dire days in the franchise, but there is one thing that things like the curse of Osiris days had that no longer really exists. The dedicated minority of truly diehard fans have kept this franchise alive time and time again, whenever a release fell flat, and people started calling the game dead, destiny still managed to rise from the ashes because of those people, those people who where determined to solve every mystery in the lore, who reveled in the visual design and style, who found the gameplay challenging and rewarding, and even those who just adored the soundtrack. But piece by piece, bungie has been deconstructing this core of their community, story and lore have continuously gotten worse, introducing answers to questions that where much more fun as mysteries. locations like neomuna not only fell flat for many, but also showed a clear betrayal of the visual identity of the game. The gamy has grown increasingly bombastic and explosive, fun for some and boring and repetitive for others. And just now the firing of the people responsible for destiny’s music. The reasons the dedicated fans have stuck around no longer exist, at least not nearly as powerfully. Those players who used to sign in every day even when the player numbers where to low to open a crucible lobby are no longer looking hopefully to the future, and instead are looking for an opportunity to get the fuck out. I don’t know what will happen next, but to me this is destiny’s closest brush with death yet.

[@Maddness101]

Best guess is that they not only over projected on: *Lightfall sales *Final Shape Preorders *Silver Sales (Eververse, Seasons, Dungeons, etc) There was probably also a fair bit of wishful thinking/saying what Management want to hear involved, along the lines of: ‘Of course we can introduce all this new monetisation and get the same amount of player retention’ Throw in a possible dash of incompetence as well and there you go.

[@lgd6619]

The fact this is one of the better seasons says alot in itself, while amount of content isnt an issue, the experience of playing it is, it feels so much less than a world we explore and live in and more like a series of mechanics designed by spreedsheets and data feedback based on retention grinds, the game feels like its lost its soul and all its wonder as an experience

[@Brant-vh5mk]

Absolutely agree. I always enjoyed this game due to how the world felt like a large and “real” place. So many seasonal activities feel disconnected from the in game world, and more like extra modes in a video game.

[@Dizastermaster.]

Destiny players ask for shit and dont like it part 137

[@rollind2456]

I personally don’t like it, the card system is confusing and I stopped playing the seasonal content since I had to LFG to do quick runs and not have a random jam in a Powerful Offering

[@phaedruslive]

The game is really missing the adventures system from launch. I think having adventures unlock at different power gates and things like nightfall adventures etc. Reason to keep going back to zones at high level. Red borders from each planet that only drop from these adventures and so on. A different content loop than what we've had since like Forsaken.

[@DjentyB]

You just hit the nail on the head. Sometimes i still go back to D1 and delete a character to restart. Even tho the base campaign was mid, the experience of playing through a world and actually doing things *in* the world is unparalleled

[@Forcer69]

I’m curious what their expectations were. Say 2022 they made 500m and decided to go for 750m. That means they would have made 412.5M which is still a 17.5% decrease, which while not exact numbers does feel more realistic.

[@Thund3rstone]

Without the baseline the 45% are just a number floating alone in the air without any conclusion possible.

[@tomekk.1889]

This is just speculation at this point. What matters is that the whole company clearly went panic mode this week

[@omensoffate]

You have no idea so this post is pointless

[@godknightomega]

​​@@omensoffate True we don't know. However person who has nothing to contribute to this conversation, the point still stands that they're still making the money that has been keeping everyone employed at Bungo. They just missed the EXTRA money that the greedy higher-ups wanted. The higher-ups just unceremoniously canned many people while still making the same amount of money if not more. So kindly go take YOUR pointless post and kindly find some grass to touch.

[@horrorfan117]

​@@godknightomegahello police? Yes I just witnessed a murder. Spot on my dude.

[@JustMeSavy]

It’s almost poetic in a way that all the problems we’ve been complaining about for years (content delivery, player retention, onboarding, etc.) are finally coming together to bite them in the ass. Unfortunate that employees had to lose their jobs for it to happen tho

[@olcuqap1789]

prob for the best they can leave find another job before bungie collapses

[@calebhughes975]

That's always the rub isn't it? The devs and comm managers who were reporting back to Exec and telling them that the players were unhappy are the ones who were let go, instead of execs taking a pay-cut for clearly continuing to push the company, and game, in a direction that pisses the players off, and as a result, earns less money.

[@agent00chimp]

@@calebhughes975 exactly. See THIS is the actual vote with your money part right here. Everyone says that when things aren't going their preferred way. But when things like this happen that affect people's lives and it's customers, you have to start looking at the behind the scenes trends and politics of business to vote with your dollar.

[@HandsomeBwonderful93]

Serves them right. Karmas a bitch

[@boltup2158]

A huge part of this has to be the paywalls, they are such a turn off, I hate not being able to do raids or even nightfall strikes because I didn't throw down for a specific expansion. I can see many players throwing their hands up in frustration and moving on.

[@mrgrimm25]

Why is Sony surprised? Bungie made their stance on over-delivering very clear. Seems like they're only in the business of over-promising.

[@arnomeyer9712]

Just went through this with my company. Expect a statement like “we have made some very difficult decisions but believe we are now strongly positioned for future success”

[@mixanblend]

Yes that's what they told the staff who were left. 'We kept the right people to continue the game'.

[@thedarkgenious7967]

I'm amazed that I'm actually considering the possibility of Sony seeing all this backlash and coming in and gutting upper management to be replaced with their own people as the most realistic "Good" ending, here.

[@derekeaton4021]

Unfortunately I think you're right. The best scenario right now is Sony takes the helm and does damage control because the higher ups at Bungie seem to be completely oblivious to where the problem lies.

[@absentstars474]

Ive been praying for that since the acquisition.

[@marinawolf]

That could actually be a very good outcome.

[@jordanreavis8163]

Completely agree. Sony spent nearly 4 billion on Bungie. There's absolutely no way they're gonna let them go belly up and ruin the most important expansion of their flagship game.

[@sjolson68]

CEO's only responsibility is to the shareholders of Sony. Bungie clearly has been mismangaged and Sony can't have them just "eat" the losses like they could if it was privately held. A sinister possibility on missing revenue that badly is someone took the decision to pad revenue expectations to help with the sales pitch to Sony. Those responsible for THAT decision would be the ones to overwhelmingly gain from the sale to Sony.

[@bobroberts2581]

I came back, loved the Elemental Wells on what turned into a solar or void based support-Lock (seeking wells that kickstarted abilities and shield growth, based on rolling explosions those elements provided.) so I bought the season pass as I finished my elemental well mod collection that let me boost team DPS by a sizeable chunk compared to non-well builds. …and then they completely removed ele-wells all together and left no real equivalent for support players outside of the rare turret abilities or healing nades/auras. Basically, all stuff on a cool down timer. I gave it another season, realized that all almost the entire Mid-late-post game is locked behind Raid content with no ingame matchmaking.

[@GoatSays]

Cancelled my final shape preorder yesterday. I just do not have high hopes for the expansion. On a side but slightly related note. Although I feel for everyone who lost their job, if Bungie came out and said they were expecting a 45% deficit against their projections then it's really not surprising that the lay offs happened. My current company is projecting a huge loss this year and I already know without being told that lay offs are a possibility and that I'll be one of the first to go. It's nothing to do with being bad at your job or useless. People in a support role are always the first to go.

[@InterstellarBountyHunter521]

Glad to see someone else realizing this angle. A lot more goes into corporate management than we consumers see. If they were a manager tasked with keeping the business afloat, they would make the same moves that we are here criticizing them for. You can't fault someone for pursing their own interests, it's just a shame the interests of the business and the interests of the players are different.

[@waverider4524]

Being in the industry for a long time now, I’ve always found that the companies that portray themselves as the “fun family” and “we’re the progressive ones!” are so often the coldest and cruelest…

[@atomic_wait]

'Methinks thou doth protest too much.'

[@sergiarilla8608]

This 100%

[@hey_its_travis]

Virtued singaled to close to the sun.

[@DMR_MAK]

Hey at least we know the preferred pronouns of everyone in the vidoc, as if were ever going to address them and make use of such non-ephemeral knowledge.

[@Lonzology]

Yup, any company that disguises themselves to be all inclusive and all that other bullshit are the worst companies ever. They treat ppl like shit, and put every single person in a box. Its horrible.

[@randomradon]

That moment when they tell you not to over deliver on the product, but tell you to over deliver on sales

[@s_t_r_a_y_e_d]

Seems like the executives are finally feeling the heat from the community. Vote with your wallets. It's REALLY fucked up though that executives are not the ones who suffer for mismanagement. We live in a world where talent is exploited and middle men EAT profits.

[@mayhem8264]

To cut costs the execs could have taken a pay cut and saved people's jobs

[@xxsteadexx2297]

No that's not realistic. You wouldn't either in their position

[@johnnygotskillzzander4302]

OMG He addressed the low drop rates for Ritual Armor... I'm working on my 3rd set Titan needs just one more piece. Ridiculous amounts of strikes, but Still trying cause it actually looks wicked with Neon Jungle on.

[@xxdarkpersonaxx9496]

I remember how innovative destiny one was, the content was pretty good. And then I came to destiny 2 after some seasons and it was kind of shocking how it turned into a money pit. Reminds me of IOI from ready player one where they wanted to monetize the oasis and take up 80% of peoples field of view with ads. So many battle passes, and content pay walled. If you bought certain battle passes you didn’t get access to content you paid for unless you bought the top tier battle passes. Also I hate how you can’t go back and experience the game from the beginning of the story so if you’re a returning player you will be behind

[@TestingTesting1]

Usually when companies miss targets like that it’s due to 2 things. 1) Taking your audience for granted. 2) Wishful thinking. PvP has been left untouched for years! And there’s a lot of wishful thinking behind the aggressive monetisation. Really feel for anyone who’s been laid off at Bungie and hope they go off to achieve bigger and better things.

[@jonasdowner]

Even though PvP players are only 45% of D2 players, I believe that PvP is Destiny's beating heart, and management kind of doesn't see that. Like, the only part of Destiny that provides a constant stream of content that is varied and interesting is PvP content. I love the PvP, and there's never a season I don't play, and some seasons where it's all I do. I just really think the PvP experience is far more essential than most realize.

[@DestindKnee]

I dont feel for them. Too many cry when they have to work and then criticize anyone that calls them out

[@0008loser]

​@jonasdowner wasn't the actual stats for pvp significantly lower to like 12% or something? I don't really follow d2 statistics but I now 45% is absurd in general l.

[@fysean]

I wonder how much retention there’d be if pvp was paid attention to sooner. I only got back into destiny a couple years ago after being a d1 player and early d2 player. Pvp was always my go to when I had finished everything up. With pvp clearly being ignored, myself and others just haven’t bothered so we check out and into other games. This years been so good for gaming. I’m not gonna play destiny if there’s nothing as captivating as the competition - and a big factor of that is life support pvp.

[@CombativeMedic]

I came in ready for a downer subject but the corgi in the back made me smile. (Favorite dog breed.) I think this isn't unexpected because it's such a common pattern in the corporate sphere...but it is still frustrating. The wrong people are punished for these sort of events, so I'm rather...heartened to see the public start to pull back the curtains and want to see the higher execs face consequences. In terms of Bungie, I think suits like Justin Truman have a lot to answer for. Mr. "Don't Overdeliver, You're Creating Patterns" is part of why the devs weren't allowed to improve the game. It's shameful.

[@milosradmilac8911]

The more we find out the more it highlights the incompetence and arrogance of the management. You can't expect people to only play one game forever and ever and ever, at best of times. ppl have lives, other things that come up, jobs, games, social engagements, other hobbies etc. And on top of that the banger year for games, and on top of that the poor sentiment in the player base after Lightfall. and on top of that the fact that the franchise is a decade old. Common sense and executives just don't exist in the same orbit.

[@Jitterzz]

I haven’t been following the seasons. I want to play at times, but it’s still uninstalled on my system after Lightfall.

[@sarsante]

FS regional pricing in Brazil it's ridiculous, the "complete" version costs almost 2x BG3. Expansions pricing just goes up every year over here to a point that it became abusive tbh. BL was 200, WQ 240, LF 299 and FS it's 380. BG3 it's 200 for comparisson.

[@Fr33climb]

Stopped playing mid-Lightfall campaign and it’s the best decision I’ve made. There’s too many good games out to get stuck playing a mediocre game that use to be good.

[@e2rqey]

Facts. The number of fantastic games you can get for price of just playing Destiny is crazy. I've always said, there are too many other great games out there, that respect your time so much more than Destiny does, for you to spend all your free time on Destiny. Much less all that money.

[@loveskating4eva]

Any recomendations? @@e2rqey

[@aaron_ow]

So upsetting to see a once beloved franchise burn to the ground in real-time. I feel so bad for the employees and players who placed their trust in a company that seemed to shine so brightly against other AAA developers. The game should have thrived since WitchQueen, for sure Lightfall was a bump in the road but a 45% revenue drop seems too much to place onto one DLC. It just doesn't make sense how Bungie have fumbled the ball this hard, especially with the support that Sony should have brought in.

[@thecanadiankiwibirb4512]

Thing is, it's not a 45% drop, it's a 45% drop in *projected* revenue Bungie could have told Sony they would make 45% more than last year and then made the same amount of money as witch queen and it would have been a ""45%"" drop

[@aaron_ow]

That's very true. It seems that Bungie had set themselves an unrealistic target which would have be unachievable regardless of Lightfall proving to be a success or not. @@thecanadiankiwibirb4512

[@luckybuizel15]

I remember a slide from that one slideshow. it said "First: Trust. Second: Retention. Third: Revenue. prioritize our players trust in us, then their fun and dedication to the game then our revenue. we make plenty to make our great game."

[@Rain-uw3cp]

My god you're right they literally said that shit

[@johnnygotskillzzander4302]

If you buy the Annual Pass why are they still charging for additional Event passes... Smh I wonder if they'll bring out another 30th Anniversary for filler in-between those 7 months?

[@octohumboldt5214]

Their in store prices are way too high. I'm not spending $15 on some silver to only be able to afford one thing and be left with unusable silver unless buying more. I will spend $15 if I can buy two things and have no leftover silver. Making silver purchasable in 1,000 lots and then charging 800 silver with nothing worth 200 silver is a deliberate scam.

[@Lightstation_]

Instead of admitting that those projections were wrong they instead blame the devs for doing their job

[@xxsteadexx2297]

Nope no devs were fired. Do some research

[@notoriousskysolider5117]

Bungie has been behaving this way for years even hiding behind charity, the goodwill, the community, and they use that to build an identity and is hid behind that identity failure after failure. There are many in the community like myself who’s been calling this out constantly only be a being attacked by the Bungie loving crew. As someone who is part of the hard-core crew, keeping the game alive during curse of Osiris, the constant lies and deception turn the away from the game, it was so clear then, as it is now their true colors.

[@Shoes8969]

I personally feel that the worst part of all of this is that Bungie has yet to respond outside of two tweets by Pete Parsons. The bad press that is out there is making waves in terms of negative reactions from fans, and by staying silent they are speaking volumes to the way that they want to be seen.

[@bigdawg4003]

The game has changed and Bungie have caused a mass exit of long term players due to their own mistakes: Minotinous grinds Player burn out Poor seasons Low drop rates Pointless dificulty increases Constant nerfs to guns/supers Micro transactions Long delays for new content Player time investment isn’t worth it anymore The list goes on…..

[@InsightfulAU]

1) Witch Queen into Lightfall had good word of mouth along with excellent marketing for Lightfall. High player counts and purchases. 2) Lightfall doesn’t land well leading to player loss… some refunds but mostly lower player engagement and season purchase activity. 3) Over monetization… starting really noticeably during Season of Seraph going into Lightfall… more shader/skin packs, not rotating cosmetics into the bright dust store seasonally, lack of seasonal exotic armor, etc… seems like more of the ‘content’ focus was moved to EVERVERSE as opposed to seasonal/acquirable by engagement areas 4) LOADS of banger games this year in tandem with stale patterns in Destiny. I actually think Defiance (while short) and Deep and Witch are pretty good to great seasonal offerings as far as content loop etc BUT… there are a boatload of GREAT games released that pulled people away this year impacting player numbers. There’s more factors like over hiring/bloating payrolls coming off of COVID and absolutely poor management of certain aspects of the game.

[@timseverson2279]

Bungie: we aren’t making as much as we thought and people are leaving because to we know we under delivery and charge to much. Community: refund my Final Shape 😂

[@Jukantos]

In a lot of ways what Destiny 2 needed was an Age of Triumph treatment of undeleting the Red War and Forsaken and making both of those (and maybe even Shadowkeep) TRULY free for all players. That could have been a solid backbone for people to experience what it means to be a guardian and from there they could've allowed players to play through the timeline one campaign at a time, giving a 10$ discount for the next expansion every time you beat an expansion, with an extra 5$ discount if you beat the raid or something silly like that. Give people both order in onboarding and a reason to try the game to begin with. With this? I can't be the only one RUNNING for the hills. Thankfully Warframe is doing quite well and has two massive story expansions and sequels to their best ever massive 2021 campaign about to release in december and some time next year, so my looter shooter itch will be more than scratched by a game that actually respects both its players and its developers. In fact the former game director of Warframe just became the CEO of the studio (Digital Extremes, Steve Sinclair).

[@ashesashes2649]

I love that your intro is still the same😂

[@paul_tassi]

have thought about cutting based on youtuber advice lol, people want to jump straight in

[@PLBiohazard]

Honestly, this is a great intro, it works really well 😄

[@delpeck2067]

​@@paul_tassiKeep it, I love it. Especially when the video is not about destiny and its crossed out lol

[@surprisedtoast649]

​@@paul_tassikeep it!

[@passiveplayz7415]

its been an honor serving with u all

[@TheVector119]

I seem to remember something about staff retention being a priority when bungie got acquired, so much so that fairly large bonuses were supposedly being included for remaining under sony. I guess all of that was conditional on on destiny meeting specific profit levels? And now that it hasn't, instead of posiby refocusing bungie back on destiny rather than splitting them across 3 separate projects, they are instead going with mass layoffs... This gives off the appearance that sony doesn't know how to handle money, or studio management, both of which they have proven repeatedly to have a good grasp on with they're other studios and 1st party endeavors. I seriously hope we actually find out wtf was happening behind the scenes for this to be where we're at today.

[@blackjack19811]

To add on to the competition. When Final Shape launches in June they will be competing with Dawntrail, possibly a WoW expansion and posibbly Diablo 4’s first expansion.

[@randomdontbanme3154]

Sounds like a terrible time for them to release final shape.

[@blackjack19811]

@@randomdontbanme3154 they will for sure be dealing with some competition.

[@zerken77]

I think the fact that lightfall was $75 and final shape is $100 has something to do with the low retention

[@broderickfoster2107]

Was Lightfall priced differently for you guys? I paid the same amount for pre-ordering Lightfall as I have for Final Shape

[@ThePalebloodDoll]

i thought lifghtfall was more expensive than previous expansions@@broderickfoster2107

[@phoenix9531]

I don't even know what you mean. Lightfall deluxe was 100$ wasn't it?

[@chasey4069]

I think u mean lightfall vs witch queen

[@icantsleepman]

Lightfall and TFS deluxe were both at 100$

[@Burgo361]

Joe's outreach had convinced me that final shape was worth giving a chance and I was ready to buy it when this happened, now I'm really not sure I want to spend money on a game that it is going in this direction.

[@MapleYum]

If you have ps extra, I fully expect lightfall to go on there next year as they try to drum up interest in the next expansion.

[@nathanwhite617]

Maybe they will rethink their matchmaking policies, drop legend to -10, Master to -15, and make it all match made. The seasonal content is harder on certain tiers and it’s match made. Time to stop holding on to old ways. And the focusing costs they announced, oh no that will not fly next season.

[@mrflipflop7116]

Personaly, I also think that increasing difficulty was a big mistake. The game was not feeling rewarding but increasing difficulty made it less rewarding, less 'chill to play' and I think a lot of people were super ok with the level of difficulty we had before. If you want to engage players, you have to feeed them, not make them starve to death ... (loot, content and FUN !) . Final shape reveal was disapoiinting for a lot of people I play with.

[@markp.8459]

Everyone laughed and put me down as to get gud noob, when I said the difficulty change right when lightfall released, was going to kill the game. Guess I was right. I have 6k hours in the game. I mean prophecy dungeon solo was easier than lightfall patrol zone when it released. I don't want to spend 30 minutes in a grandmaster nightfall for a purple hand cannon I already have multiple of. I want to log on and feel like an unbeatable God. I don't want to feel like a red bar dreg that has no powers is a raid boss.

[@MonstertruckBadass]

​@@markp.8459 Exactly, who the fuck wants to walk around a patrol zone with scaling similar to GM nightfalls?

[@MrBtak]

The same thing happened at CBS years ago. They projected this whole family atmosphere, but when push came to shove, that whole facade came crashing down with forced retirements and layoffs. Corporations and major studios just need to go away and let creators create without executives monetizing it.

[@badgerapocalyps2546]

Yeah, Bungie was very creative and responsive to the community when they were privately owned but since they went the Socialist/Corporatist route pushing out substandard cookie-cutter content it's been a dumpster fire.

[@0008loser]

​@@badgerapocalyps2546......the fuck you mean socialist?

[@Vonraad]

I've played D2 for a long time, this was the first expansion I took a break from it. The game stability got too frustrating to deal with, and that coming right when they start trying to nickle and dime the player base really got to me. Was not fun trying to convince my friends in order to run the cool new dungeon they had buy the dungeon pass, when they already bought the season pass, it felt like it was made confusing on purpose to get money out of people. It's gonna take a bit to get my group back into playing that's for sure.

[@heickelrrx]

Bungie : do not Overdelivered, it will set higher expectation Also Bungie : Overpromising on projection, but Underdelivered

[@haunterdragon4580]

Bungie: we are lazy and we think you should be lazy too 😂

[@robertcaparelli5421]

They’ve charged 90 bucks for every dlc that’s come out since d1 the thing was back then they actually put time and tons of content into the dlcs so I didn’t really have a problem. I’d say after beyond light maybe even before that but mainly after kings fall it didn’t feel like we were getting 90 bucks of content anymore. Plus the battle pass system too just giving you exotics for no work made getting a exotic not exiting at all.

[@hunterberry1508]

I've always thought one of the best ideas for a new Destiny game would just be a game focused on the past and the lore. Experience all the moments you've got to read about. Imagine getting to play as Shaxx commanding the defense of the city at the Battle of Twilight Gap, or getting to play as Saint in his crusade against the Fallen. Maybe even play as Eris, watching your Fireteam get ripped to shreds in the Hellmouth.

[@lexmitchell4402]

So much of the lore was more interesting at a distance. The stories and mystique around Osiris in D1 were completely let down by his actual introduction in D2.

[@Unknown_Source]

Thats a great idea actually. Destiny 2 continues on but a game where u get to play as all the characters in lore driven campaign/moments

[@lanycera]

Clearly, there are old men at the top making executive decisions who are completely out of touch with what gamers want + would bring in money. Another extraction shooter, trying to take Tarkov's place? Really? There is so much rich lore and endless possibilities with Destiny, it could be everything. A singleplayer game, Destiny 3 but on a new engine and implementing all the player feedback (and changing off pseudo f2p model), an anime or / and live action - just take a look at Riot what they did with LoL.

[@thrilla72]

​@@lexmitchell4402it's because they introduced a completely different character from what was in the lore. Saint 14 lives up to the lore. Oryx and Savathun were great lore and in game villains

[@GbHaseo]

​@@lanyceraIt's been reported they started those projects bc the team behind Destiny, got tired of making Destiny and didn't wanna work on it anymore. It's why for example after fixing D2 with Warmind Chris Barrett the former lead left the game and took ppl with him to start on Matter and Marathon.

[@cartho1103]

This will be taught in business and game development classes in the future for how astronomically bad this management group screwed up

[@SpottedHares]

Mostly likely the bean counters were expecting Lightfall and latter stuff to do even better off of good will fromWitch Queen and Lightfall being the prologue of Final shape. But a combination of poor reception, price hikes, bad press from other projects all contributed to the knock on effect that say almost halving of revenue. But we also don’t know what those projections were. For all we know Bungie could have even preformed better then they did last projection but they so massively overestimated just how much they would preform that now their hear. Because I wouldn’t be surprised if Bungie not only made money, made a lot of money, even made enough to cover their cost and still have a nice chunk over. But they didn’t make the amount of money the hire ups wanted to justify bonuses and pay raises.

[@dz734875]

I think they overestimated how long an aging game can sustain an active player base. I really don’t think you can have a successor “saga” on top of all these played out assets. The franchise would benefit from a break and reset.

[@soulward6334]

Not to mention, no new enemies. Same shit for ten years.

[@SpencerLee97]

I know it's basically a meme by now but the "over delivery" leaked PowerPoint was really the final nail in the coffin for me. To see so many of the problems I had with the game be affirmed and revealed to be intentional really killed whatever enthusiasm I had left for the game. On top of Lightfall trailers looking boring and the total lack of PvP and Strike support meant I didn't buy LF and haven't gone back since.

[@nunyabiznes7446]

"the firings will continue until player retention improves" is *not* a good strategy for long-term growth lol

[@kd-pt1zy]

With this delay of the final shape. They would be smart to re release the old campaigns for free. Bring back more weapons and either for exotic awards. After the forth season. I really hope they is a light at the tunnel for the game. I do love the game very much. Really dirty what bungie did to their former employees. Very cut throat. Thank you Paul.

[@nickg8100]

I think Valorant and Overwatch are such good examples that if you charge too much people are only going to buy one of a thing and then not change that for a very long time bc it’s to expensive Ti change. Plus a decent amount of us have multiple characters, and buying the skin for each of them is just too much

[@stephenmorris2547]

Good analysis. I think the buildup of problems over time have finally squandered the players good will and dedication to the game. It feels like it's reached a tipping point. I think a lot of people will cancel pre-orders unless Bungie comes up with some great plan. One thing I always saw them doing was releasing the 'last' new sub classes after Final Shape as part of episodes...essentially forcing everyone to pay for it and building interest in episodes. I wonder if they could release the new sub class in Feb as a lead up to final shape to try and build interest and good will. That's about the only thing I see them maybe being able to do to fill the gap. I guess they might be able to release a dungeon or something. Just from a business sense I'd love to learn more about what happened inside Bungie. It would make an interesting case study. As you look back there were always external 'reasons' that Bungie wasn't blamed for issues and dysfunction (Activision, Sony, No PVP team, We are listening etc etc) but the commonality going all the way back is management. I don't remember any significant shakeups in the C level at Bungie.

[@automato436]

The new employee sunsetting update is crazy

[@thrilla72]

This news makes me so thankful that I resisted the urge to pre order Final Shape. That fusion rifle was sooo tempting, they always release the pre order exotic in a broken state

[@AymenDZA]

The thing about having a great year for games followed by massive layoffs is that we probably won't get another banger year of games for another 10 to 20 years. Games like this year's are made by devs and studios with multiple years of expertise in their particular field/niche, aka generational knowledge that's accumulated in the studio, and layoffs only mean that in order to get back on their feet again will require many years of acquired expertise and knowledge to be able to make great genre defining and memorable games.

[@animal-_-2224]

Who knew that treating your customers like cash registers instead of people wasn't the best way to retain players in a live service.🤔

[@EvilResidentXIII]

Man, Armored Core alone took me off Destiny for just a hair over 2 months. It felt so good to get a return to a series I held so much love for. Ever since I've felt a bit of a hump to get over to try and get back into Destiny to at least finish off my season pass. These past few days have been so weird as someone who has stayed on with this game for so, so long. I've been playing Destiny for a decade and suddenly I feel like its being dug away from underneath me

[@losadovortex9623]

No repair kits remaining

[@Frogemoth]

Armored Core is a stellar game. The customization alone puts Destiny to shame

[@WormChi312]

PvP is what used to keep this game going after the first 30 days of new content. Hell even grinding PvE for PvP gear was a big deal. I can’t help but feel like the lack of care to PvP is the single most reason for Destiny’s downfall.

[@jefftheevilrobot9351]

45% is a lot, but how much is that in actual amount of money? What does destiny’s revenue look like compared to other games? Surely it has made just as much as most other games today?

[@SolomonPrime3000]

I think this year being one of the best ever for releases must be a major contributor. Bangers like Baldurs Gate 3 and Phantom Liberty broke my Destiny addiction and got me off the treadmill and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I'm taking the opportunity to start playing other games I've been meaning to play like Remnant 2.

[@Whompens]

it’s actually insane to consider how different the situation might be if they had just invested in a healthy onboarding process and made past expansions free to play

[@jaketheman1577]

How would they do that if they are broke? How would giving things that cost to make away for free help them?. Bungie has obviously been struggling for awhile financialy. I believe if they wasnt they would have never aloud themselves to be brough by sony. It seems so backwards that they hated being under activision just to get right under sony. That makes me feel like they been loosing money for awhile.

[@Whompens]

@@jaketheman1577 well the idea is that by making past expansions free, expansions that they would have make a return on, ones that (at this point) are five years old, they would be giving new players something to hop into and get invested in, thus enticing more and more new players and promoting a larger population who, in theory, would have a better relationship with the game and feel more inclined to spend every once in while. instead we have NO free content, NO on ramp for new players, NOBODY wants to get into the game because it’s a massive paywall to even begin to have fun. all that said, I don’t think I disagree with all the rest of what you said. it’s just ironic that if they had monetized more passively and “friendly” instead of being so aggressive with it, it would’ve had an opposite effect, at least I think so

[@jaketheman1577]

@@Whompens I see what you mean but if they did that it would have to be almost a sure thing. Trying things then failing rn would be detrimental for the company. I'm sure they have people who analyze player reception. I got all the old expansion for like 30 or 40 bucks recently. That's a hell of a deal tbh for the amount of content in them. The dungeons was like the price of thre expansions fr. That could definitely use a sale. You could buy a brand new game for 60 dollars rn and it have less content than those expansion put together. Making a good game loop is infinitely better than bribing players with free stuff. I been playing darktide recently and I been fighting so hard not to buy the cosmetics. The gameloop and gameplay of that game is amazing which makes me want to spend my money with them. Like how people buy things from certain grocery stores over others even though they have the same things. It's cause one has better quality.

[@mattmanley7118]

That’s an awfully big miss!! Wow 😮 D2 must really be hurting

[@Luzaku_kiss]

You don't say

[@madsines5301]

I'd imagine it's more the fact of revenue estimates being way too high as usual.

[@Thund3rstone]

Fact is we know nothing. If I made last year 1 Euro revenue and I make now 4 Euros, I was able to grow revenue by 300%. Wow! Or the other way around revenue took a hit by 300%. Without meaningful numbers to compare to last years numbers we will not know and this is all guesswork.

[@jackiebalmer8190]

Sever issues experienced as a D2 player this year is also a reason to push your player base to the many other options that have been released this year....

[@victorylatheworks873]

I speak for myself when i say I am just burned out...season after reskinned season, grind after boring grind, an armor system that is pretty much auto delete, an in game storage system that doesn't let you reorganize it how you want; not to mention not enough space to even hold all the guns you can collect, two entire game modes being neglected for far too long...need I go on?