Bible Chain-of-Custody is Still Broken (J Warner Wallace "Person of Interest" response)

Is there a chain of custody that secures the evidence about the identity of Jesus from the time of the eyewitnesses all the way to the fourth century when manuscript evidence was more abundant? Former cold case detective J Warner Wallace and apologist Frank Turek say yes, as they respond to my critique of Wallace's "Person of Interest" book.
Original Podcast - How the Chain of Custody Affirms the Biblical Jesus
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[@fedos]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: someone needs to re-examine any cold cases that J Warner Wallace solved.

[@kerianhalcon3557]

I have agreed before, and I will agree again, yes they really do need to, 80% are probably the wrong person in jail.

[@user-qz6nk1le5n]

You are assuming that he solved a case before xD

[@roqsteady5290]

@@user-qz6nk1le5n presumably if he had tossed a coin he would have got the right result some of the time. Mostly the culprit in a murder is pretty obvious any way, it was the spouse.

[@fedos]

@@roqsteady5290 The obvious ones don't end up as cold cases.

[@user-qz6nk1le5n]

@@roqsteady5290 yeah but, how many cases are solved by one detective? His share to the cases could be null

[@DeeDeeBaldwin]

This guy's low standards of evidence and lack of critical thinking make me really glad he's no longer responsible for sending people to prison.

[@JerryPenna]

He seems to be unaware of hearsay or the ability to cross examine.

[@erikawhelan4673]

He's a cop, not a lawyer.

[@EdwardHowton]

Come on, DeeDee, how can Wally's standards of evidence be low? He has TWO standards of evidence! That's *double* the *standard* of anyone else!

[@kamion53]

@@EdwardHowton 😄two times zero is still zero.

[@4ndytrout46]

@@EdwardHowton I see what you did there.

[@Cellidor]

"People looking at this have an anti-supernatural bias" You know what, I think I'd be okay with being labelled as having an anti-supernatural bias. You're right Wallace, generally speaking when I encounter things I don't know the answer to I don't default to things like ghosts, spirits, magic and gods. I think I'm alright with being biased against the unfalsifiable.

[@pmtoner9852]

The same could be said about those heathens who refuse to acknowledge Zeus as the true source of lightning

[@FirstOfTheYear777]

Silly Wallace forgetting that Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and other religious people also don’t find the evidence convincing either. They don’t have an anti supernatural bias at all. But I guess they’re controlled by the devil right? 😂

[@michaelsommers2356]

I'd rather have an anti-supernatural bias than an anti-reality bias.

[@Questionablexfun]

This is something I’ve tried capturing in words for years. Thank you

[@bobsmith-hd2zr]

someone is dead, a ghost must have done it!

[@robertplatt1693]

"In a thousand years, people will not be bending their knee to Luke Skywalker." Disney has a plan, I guarantee you.

[@Ponera-Sama]

There are people who consider Jedi philosophy their religion TODAY. They don't worship Luke Skywalker or treat the films as scripture though. In fact many of them somewhat paradoxically think the movies are false teachings.

[@EdwardHowton]

Forget the Disney "joke"-that-isn't-really-a-joke. Why the hell would anyone want to bend the knee to anything? _Hello children, remember that the entire universe was made specially just for YOU! Now take out your exercise booklets and get ready for Groveling Class_ is not my idea of a bright future, but apparently that's living the dream for Wally.

[@pH7oslo]

Weird isn't it, that even though a lot of people know of Pythagoras, about 2500 years after he lived, they're not bending their knee to him. Could it possibly be because he never claimed, nor are any stories of him claiming, divine status? Nah. That would make too much sense. Only divine people are remembered by the masses after X years, and only if their claim to divinity - expressed or not - is actually true, will people think of them as divine.

[@francesconicoletti2547]

No that would be Darth Vader, bending knees is something that the dark side wants.

[@davidlafleche1142]

Within a few years, the entire Disney empire shall be totally destroyed.

[@Florkl]

I love how they pick and choose church tradition. I’m sure if I asked them if Communion actually becomes Jesus’s body and blood, as is Church Tradition, or if Mary should be considered Holy, as is Church Tradition, they’d likely balk because that’s not a Protestant thing. But if they won’t accept Church Traditions, why should I?

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

Great points. However, I think Protestants accept that Mary was Holy. It's the doctrines of the Immaculate Conception, Perpetual Virginity, and her Assumption to Heaven that they deny.

[@Florkl]

Not the Southern Baptists Wallace is a part of. They are pretty firm on the belief that Mary was just Jesus’s mother, with no claims to perfection or Holiness. Or, better phrased, nobody but God is Holy.

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

@@Florkl oh, they use a weird definition of "Holy." In Catholicism "Holy" means set apart for God. So anything used for or by God is "Holy." For example a church, candles, communion wafers, etc. However, I must admit there's a flaw in that definition. How can God himself be "Holy."

[@Paulogia]

My Mennonite tradition said Mary was "blessed", not "holy".

[@pete5516]

@@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596 At least if only god is holy then they admit the scriptures aren’t, that’s one step closer to admitting they’re complete bs

[@JerryPenna]

How does a “cold case” detective not know what hearsay is?

[@FakingANerve]

This reminds me of an old joke. What do you call a person who got C's throughout medical school? "Doctor."

[@JohnSmith-fz1ih]

The simplest answer: He does know and (being very generous) he has cognitive dissonance when it comes to Jesus and has never given the Jesus claim critical thought. Or (being realistic) is knowingly exaggerating the case for Jesus and knowingly not applying critical thought and happily selling books that put forward this false case for profit.

[@avi8r66]

@@JohnSmith-fz1ih you nailed it in one I suspect.

[@vtblda]

@@FakingANerve yes, you're right! Also we say about those colleagues that only study half the matter, that you can only diagnose what you know to be a disease. If you only read half the matter, you can only diagnose half the problems, but you're not half a doctor. And this is a real issue.

[@jonc4403]

@@JohnSmith-fz1ih Nah, the simplest answer is that he's a cop. As a cop, he did what almost every cop does, look for something to use to lock somebody up. Who the somebody in question is doesn't matter nearly as much as scoring that conviction. Common estimates are that 2% to 10% of people in prison are in fact innocent, I suspect that it may be even higher. There are 2 million people in prison in the US.

[@michaeldeaton]

"Why shucks why would i care if the evidence Im submitting is sound or worthwhile? I'm just a poor ol' cold case detective gosh golly gee" This guy I swear.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

I love his talk about how they have "eye witnesses" ... anybody he arrested needs only to show a diary where they wrote "today 500 people saw that i was totally innocent of any crime" and Jaydubdub would have to let them go... at least if that really is a standard convincing him and not just a desperate attempt to talk the bible story nicer than it is...

[@Number0neSon]

12:44 - _"Because you're the same person (as Lee Strobel)"_ , lol! That made me bust out loud laughing. It's so true.

[@Vindsus86]

Same!

[@EdwardHowton]

I honestly can't tell this guy, Strobel, or what's his face McDowell apart. I think there's even two McDowells, but I'll be damned if I can tell the difference. Which, really, they should feel so depressed about. The Hovinds are all the same too, but even _Eric_ stands apart by being SO MUCH DUMBER than his deadbeat inmate father. Imagine being out-remarkable'd by _Eric goddamn Hovind._

[@bonnie43uk]

I didn't quite comprehend why Paulogia said that.. obviously they are not the same people.. or was he being sarcastic?

[@Vindsus86]

@@bonnie43uk to me, it's the way that they talk about using what they learned in their prior-to-doing-apologetics-fields that makes them sound very similar. In a bad way.

[@Number0neSon]

@@bonnie43uk Strobel and Wallace are very similar in how they approach apologetics and biblical proof. They also share a near identical conversion; ie _"I was once a hardcore atheist but when I started to investigate the Bible using my (insert profession) I discovered it was true!"_

[@mDeltaKilo]

Every video with Wallace makes me more and more concerned about innocent people behind bars.

[@kdietz65]

A chain of custody applies to some physical artifact (a letter, book, painting, shell casing, etc) physically passing from one person to another through time. You can't apply that same process to an idea that is passed from one person to another. When that happens, we don't call it a chain of custody, we call it hearsay.

[@utubepunk]

A chain of hearsay doesn't sound as catchy.

[@alanshebaro]

I think there needs to be an honest look at Wallace’s “solved” cases…If his methodology as a detective is the same as an apologist, I’d bet a shiny buffalo nickel there’s a lot of criminals running free and a lot of innocent people in prison.

[@PierreaSweedieCat]

Add my nickel to your pile!

[@mariedinkler8542]

Stuck in a waiting room, just got the eye that Paul waits til we get home🤣🤣🤣 my partner lacks the humor in public, that he has elsewhere.

[@tommygig3]

It might stir up some interesting conversation 😃

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

What a meanie! 😉

[@mariedinkler8542]

@@tommygig3a room full.of old catholics, with foot problems. Maybe the catholicism🤣🤣🤣

[@Kruppes_Mule]

"Here's the problem if people say Jesus was exaggerated over time..." Uh, has this dude not actually read his Bible? That book does exactly that.

[@TheAntiburglar]

I'm sitting in a lovely little university coffee shop watching this and I looked up to see a postcard left here for some form of "Explore Jesus" thing to be held on campus. Jeebus there's so much about this Jesus guy out there lol

[@amy_pieterse]

Explore Jesus in what way 😏

[@briannewton3535]

@@amy_pieterse I think "Explore Jesus" is maybe a kind of adventure game, everyone can dress up as their favourite explorer, be it captain Cook, Dr Livingstone, or Indiana Jones. once done, each goes off to 'explore' and try to find Jesus, Those that find Jesus without any tangible evidence are classed as Christians, those who don't find evidence of Jesus, and simply end the game as they didn't find him, are called rational, and critical thinkers.

[@EdwardHowton]

@@briannewton3535 Jesus, in the garden, with a quesadilla!

[@briannewton3535]

@@EdwardHowton Oooh, now this is sounding like a game of Cluedo. Colonel Mustard in the study with a lead pipe. Though if Jesus did turn up with quesadilla in the garden, we could turn up with some sounds, a case of Estrella, and five thousand friends, and with Jesus at the helm to multiply the nosh and beer, it could turn into a rave.

[@EdwardHowton]

@@briannewton3535 Look, I'm not saying that in my head when I saw the whole 'Jesus game' thing I got an idea of bigoted hypocritical assholes who hate "illegals" but have undocumented gardeners working for them playing Racist Clue, but that's exactly what I'm saying.

[@SadisticSenpai61]

You know, King Arthur has been a hugely impactful character in history. Most of England's kings have claimed to be descended from him and the legend has been told and retold several times over. And yet? It looks like there never was a "King Arthur" at all. If he did exist, he was probably more of a general or a local warlord. There's also indications that Arthur was a mythical Welsh figure from before the Romans even arrived on Great Britain, which rather complicates the whole "was he a historical figure" thing given he's almost unanimously seen as having fought off the Angles and the Saxons, which were post-Roman Britain invasions. But you know, how could King Arthur and his court have been so impactful on ideals of chivalry and courtly love if they hadn't truly existed in the first place? 🙄

[@Nocturnalux]

King Arthur’s influence can be felt in contemporary times, too; the Fate video game/anime franchise gave the character a new lease on life, so to speak, by turning him into a female character, Saber. The franchise does this (minus gender bending) to several legendary and/or fictional characters, including Gilgamesh. And we’re talking about Japanese cultural products, very different from the culture that gave raise to King Arthur’s legend.

[@billbrock8547]

Only a believer would argue that a supernatural explanation is more reasonable than a plausible natural explanation.

[@normandybeach9230]

Loved the video...my own nitpick is that Socrates is not an author, he's either a philosopher who is mentioned by other authors or he is only a character. If he did exist, scholars think that some of Plato's writting are using him as a character while other times Plato is paraphrasing things Socrates taught.

[@AngryBoozer]

I think it’s reasonable to assert that Socrates was a real person, but he was against writing his thoughts down, because he insisted that the only way to convey his ideas was through a direct conversation. Other people wrote about him though. And yes, paraphrasing or using him as a character is almost a given. Plato was more interested in capturing the core of Socrates’ philosophy, rather than writing his biography.

[@BryonStice]

Wait, I thought Wallace was the investigative reporter. Maybe I'm getting him confused with somebody else.

[@kerianhalcon3557]

I think the reporter is the twit Stroble.

[@danielmartin5632]

@@kerianhalcon3557 you're getting your i's and a's mixed up.......

[@kerianhalcon3557]

@@danielmartin5632 the first word I had used was more derogatory than even if I did have the i mixed up with an a, but I did not want to get to hostile toward the FuckTard.. Opps;)

[@DeludedOne]

I see JWW still wants to use his ad populum "Jesus had great influence therefore his story is true!" line. There's a short on that that I commented on, saying how, if this is what JWW is going for, then he's basically committing the ad populum fallacy. There were a few defenders who were saying that that's NOT what he was going for, but if that's the case, then all that's left is him bragging about Jesus' influence, something most people already know of, for no apparent reason. 5:42 Yup, I believe that short was a plug for his book. Of course him saying Jesus is so popular this means nothing of substantive overall. And I lol at how they say Jesus has been influential in science. Yeah right. 9:04 Ugh, a dichotomy, possibly a false one, and his reasoning for why option 3 is the most reasonable is again, something that he can't quite explain without claiming that the Bible is true. 10:04 A world that rejects the Bible? Doesn't sound like this world where Christianity is the most populous religion right now. 12:04 He's basically trying to drum up support for his book then? 17:57 And even if it started as a conspiracy, all it needs is enough rubes to be deceived by it and then the conspiracy doesn't have to be maintained constantly, the believers will simply maintain and propagate the belief on their own. That's how conspiracies spread, that's how QAnon gained traction, and that's how so many people still believe the lie that Trump won the 2020 election but Biden stole it from him. 25:16 It's too early for the myth that Trump had the 2020 election stolen from him. People were believing this even BEFORE the election results were out (because much earlier, Trump HIMSELF had said, on more than one occasion, that if he lost, that means the result is rigged, no questions asked), so it MUST be true instead! Is that JWW's finest? An ad populum argument for Christianity being true and to reinforce....a cold case file style book?

[@RexCalliber]

Wallace wants someone to name a fictional character with influence like Jesus. I give you the Egyptian gods. Their influence lasted for thousands of years, dominated a huge population and I’m sure Wallace would agree they are fictional. His only claim that Jesus beats that is based solely on the general rise in population right now. He’s only interested in today. The Greek gods, which I’m sure he would agree are fictional, also influenced a huge population for a long time though shorter than the Egyptian example. His claim is purely temporal without consideration that tomorrow his deity may go the way of these examples. The credit for Christianity’s ubiquitousness really goes to the church and it’s financial and political ambition rather than the uniqueness of Jesus or the quality of the evidence to support it..

[@RedAngelSophia]

You should mix Frank’s “I find your lack of faith disturbing” quote into the Special Edition of your STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE recreation.

[@matsjonsson1704]

The only thing that comes in to my head, when Warner talks is. How many people are innocent in jail, because of him, Just like the tooth mark dude.

[@seraphonica]

Wallace asks for another fictional character with a similar level of popularity to Jesus. Santa Claus makes for an interesting discussion. Did he exist? It's quite likely. Does he have a huge impact on our culture for three months a year? Sure. But like Jesus of Nazareth, there's a wide gulf between the man we can confirm and the stories told by his present-day believers.

[@violeth2255]

Less popular, but similarly influential is Hermes/Mercury. The guy or his caduceus is darn near everywhere. They're on medicine, tires, cars, etc... Dude even has a planet and an element named after him. It's honestly more impressive that Herme's image and symbols have had so much reach without being attached to an active religion that tries to convert people to his worship like Christianity had.

[@pmtoner9852]

There is no man we can confirm the name Jesus who the gospel stories are based about from the first industry

[@-gearsgarage-]

I love that he placed him as a human being. Like an ancient cult leader

[@sfamerken12]

Paul, I'm slightly disappointed. You didn't make a Star Wars interjection after the "handwaving" comment. It was right there, for the taking.

[@richardscottmills]

Jesus was very influential in Christian culture that then spread through conquest, colonialism, and forced assimilation? Amazing. Who could have possibly guessed that would happen?

[@karlrschneider]

So were Alexander the Great and Mao Zedong.

[@JohnSmith-fz1ih]

17:20 Love your understated burn here Paul!

[@edgarmatzinger9742]

Just like Lee Strobel, J Warner Wallace is _"into"_ apologetics for the money.

[@finderfinder100]

Min effort max reward. While being a mid tier apologist isn't going to make you mega rich you can definitely afford a comfortable life.

[@mathiasrryba]

Ghenghis Khan is definitely also one of most influential people in history of the planet. Was he god?

[@leob3447]

Then there is that Muhammad guy - I think there may even be an up and coming religion based off what he's says. i could be wrong on that, though.

[@mathiasrryba]

@@leob3447 Something rings a bell indeed.

[@maxuno8524]

I think we misunderstood. When he said he worked on a cold case he meant some beers.

[@PWN4G3FTW]

Well done, Paulogia. As always. EDIT: Turek's voice is distressing to me. He probably thinks that shouting his religious dribbble will make it more believable.

[@JerryPenna]

Hs pretend preacher voice!

[@jameswilkinson259]

I'm totally digging the Cloud City/Vader/Fett thumbnail.

[@Paulogia]

thank you

[@eatcochayuyo]

Outstanding! Although I'm still confused on the question whether these guys know they're wrong.

[@AnonymousZyx]

Why does Frank Turek shout?

[@tommygig3]

He always does sound like he's your dad scolding you, doesn't he?

[@heethanthen706]

@@tommygig3 He sounds like an angry teenager throwing a tantrum

[@magicpigfpv6989]

It's an intimidation tactic. Feigning passion can lead to credibility with people not paying attention.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

he's trying to make himself heard over his ego.

[@somedutchguy7582]

'More louder, more truer', I guess.

[@nemdenemam9753]

5:40 "Jesus affected more than anyone...science". I would definitely give that to one of the greek guys...possibly more of them. Euclid's Elements has been a consistent source of learning for longer than the new testament.

[@FerrariKing]

How did he never lose a case?

[@mikeharrison1868]

Thank you for this. I appreciate your clarity.

[@moodyrick8503]

If detective Wallace uses the same investigative skills in police work that he uses in his effort to _"prove Jesus",_ then all the convictions based on his work should be opened up and re'evaluated. _His "*love of Jesus* has left him blind_ to all the holes in his case.

[@istvansipos9940]

first seconds. I already assume that they TRIED to strike back. I edit this, if I was wrong.

[@_a.z]

Human gullibility is always so badly overlooked!

[@philpaine3068]

Siddartha Gautama, known as the Buddha, has had an influence on society, art, literature and philosophy on the same scale as Jesus. The same problems of uncertainty about his factual existence, and whether his teachings are correctly represented in scripture, are very similar. For two and a half thousand years, images of Gautama and traditions have saturated most of Asia and beyond. J. Warner Wallace's arguments apply exactly the same way to him, just as much as Jesus.

[@artemisia4718]

But you know, eurocentrism and US-exeptionalism.

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

Some apologists, like WLC, are World Class mental gymnasts, most are very amateur level, like Frank and Jimmy.

[@historicalbiblicalresearch8440]

Ironically we are kind of disappointed that he doesn't make a better case

[@Hansbla1]

A jar-jar burn. Those must truly hurt

[@chables74]

You can’t help but pity all the wrongful convictions this guys short investigative skills have surely produced

[@whenaravencries]

All hail the christian apologists because god needs people to defend a man made religion and sell books! Excellent series Paul thank you! 👍🏻

[@widescreennavel]

I love the tiny belt badge you included in your illustration of J! It's the only way to tell the difference between him and Strobel.

[@Paulogia]

ha!

[@beaker8111]

Hey Paul! I love your channel. Thank you for making it. One little thing, though. "A former Christian, takes a look at the claims of Christians" doesn't make sense. You have a comma between the subject and the predicate of your sentence. It's like writing "I, take". Just ... remove the comma.

[@moodyrick8503]

*_Please Tell Me Detective_** ;* What would you do if you became convinced that "demons" had committed a crime & framed an innocent person ? _How would he explain this to his colleagues ?_

[@Zift_Ylrhavic_Resfear]

Thanks for the video :)

[@petehjr1]

"it's way to early for people to mythologize Jesus" (9/11 happens), 10am, people already mythologizing the event.

[@aqilshamil9633]

Yep ,dust can cause WTC7 to collapse ignoring basic collision physics

[@petehjr1]

@@aqilshamil9633 There was a very, very, very large fire, that went on for hours. That caused the collapse.

[@aqilshamil9633]

@@petehjr1 tower 7 caught fire ?? Syam Sunder from NIST don't think so , also did you heard that Bush freudian slip last week ?? Don't worry but be wary

[@petehjr1]

@@aqilshamil9633 you can see the fire, it's in the video. Firefighters were in the building, fighting the fire but it wasn't controllable and "pulled the building" which in firefighter speak mean GTFO NOW. 9/11 was an inside job just not the way you think. Not so much a Seqeet Conspiracy, more of a cover up to deflect blame from the Saudis to "teh Terrissts"

[@aqilshamil9633]

@@petehjr1 kzbin.info/www/bejne/r57Ri5iXedlsnMk Watch for a while , and tell me your eyes are lying to you ;)

[@RuminatingRaptor]

I legitimately thought they were the same person just hearing the name of his books.

[@paulswannack1039]

“…The Jar Jar Binks of Christian companions…” I peed a little when I heard Paul say that!! 😂

[@utubepunk]

Apologetics remains a house of cards.

[@rodneyspeirer4773]

Amazing analysis once again Paulogia!

[@thegreatgazoo2334]

It is often quite amusing when apologists try to use their own particular skillset or trade, what-have-you, to prove the bible. It's god's own word, so it should be easy, right? lol

[@kendrabueckert1750]

This is so great Paul!!!

[@jessewilley531]

Fictional characters with as much influence... Moses. Adam, and Eve.

[@QuintarFarenor]

Thor, Darth Vader, Zeus, Buddha,,...

[@Alan-gi2ku]

Any god.

[@imightbewrong_]

Paul, you are a delight. Forensic analysis of a supposed detective. Will the real detective please stand up!

[@leothebackgroundsheep3010]

7:03-7:14 How about literally any mythological character ever.

[@RaistlinMajereFistandantilus]

Okay but there are examples of people nearing Jesus influence who every Christian would agree was fictional. Like the Buddha. Or Zues.

[@lars_larsen]

Yes, I predict that in a 1000 years, Jediism will be the biggest religion on Earth.

[@reeceguisse17]

Never mind the argument from silence AGAINST discipleship, what about the argument from silence FOR it? Where did the idea that Polycarp et al were students of John come from is they never claimed it for themselves?

[@inthecrosshairs4480]

Well, Mr. Warner, there's always used car or insurance sales.

[@1970Phoenix]

Apologetics is primarily concerned with: 1.) Making money. 2.) Slowing down the rate at which young people leave the faith they were brainwashed into as a child. 3.) NOT winning new converts.

[@foxbutterfly-eden8715]

“Jesus is the most influential person in history.” Actually, I’d say Cyrus the Great is a rival for that title, and it’s 100% provable that he was a real person who had a very real impact on the world, including setting the stage for Christianity to have born the way it was. For better or worse, Christianity has had a huge impact on the world, but without Cyrus the Great, Christianity wouldn’t be what it is today. In fact, Judaism wouldn’t be what it is today. And thus, Islam wouldn’t be what it is today. And thus, Sikhism wouldn’t be what it is today. That’s a hell of a lot of people influenced throughout history by those sets of beliefs! And even besides religious stuff, you know that “300” story about the Battle of Thermopylae? Wouldn’t have happened without Cyrus the Great and the surprisingly progressive Persian Empire he established. If you aren’t familiar with him, take some time to learn about Cyrus the Great! 🙂

[@hannahalice1000]

I wonder if a judge defense lawyer could take a run at his claims and chains of custody from a legal standpoint and whether it would stand up in court

[@SciPunk215]

No fictional character has the same amount of influence as Jesus Christ, so therefor he must not be fictional. No historical character has had the same influence as Jesus Christ, so therefor he must not be historical.

[@uri_k]

So much interest = A tiny minuscule ant riding an elephant. Without the casual emperor's decision to make the local folk tale well known, really that's how much interest it would have kept raising, for millelia

[@ericbatterson7720]

Just so you know Socrates has no written works, not any attribured works. He just didn't write anything.

[@McbrideStudios]

If that is the case than you have to make the same argument about the Prophet, or Jospeh Smith, or the Buddha. They are not going to assume any of these other men were correct about all they claimed just because of their huge cultural impact.

[@thomzwiefler6305]

Sometimes I just pause the video and stare into your eyes and wonder if you can see me too 😥

[@TheQuantumWave]

His detective work makes Barney fife look like Hecule Poirot by comparison.

[@emilyemily9328]

It’s easy to explain the enduring impact of Jesus: when you have a monopoly on faith, reinforced by military and political power and wealth, where the only support for artists and writers dictated that monopoly be reinforced, it’s no mystery why Jesus was prevalent for over a thousand years in the countries where these conditions existed and why Jesus is completely absent from other countries and cultures where his inclusion in culture was no mandated by the threat of violence or starvation. It also explains why contemporary Christian movies, TV, music and other culture suck-artists are no longer beholden to the church because they have options.

[@weldabar]

Keeping it real aka not letting people get away with being untruthful.

[@masterthnag105]

If this guy was a murder detective I suspect he put some innocent people in jail if this was his process for determining proof.

[@Redrgon25]

I do believe there is a religions now devoted to the Force. According to their website, the Jedi Church is recognized as an official religion by the NZ Statistics Department. According to Wikipedia, Jediism is a tax-exempt group in the US & recognized by the US military as a religion.

[@robertl4824]

The only influential thing about jesus is that he has all earlier myths from pagan religions rolled into one. And he had some good ideas that often drew from earlier philosophies.

[@dave3657]

If there was a god he certainly would of struck down Paulogia with a bolt of lightning by now. The movie “Airplane” has many references made in modern society. “…. don’t call me Shirley,” But it’s actually a parody of an older movie. More people have seen the parody than have seen the original. The same could be said for a Jesus.😇

[@Mohanchous]

I could proffer that the unusual popularity of Jesus Christ might possibly be in part due to the fact that Jesus Christ figures prominently in the first religion to achieve worldwide influence through inclusivity and evangelism? Is Jesus popular because his story is compelling, or because there is a class of people whose continued social and political power depends on perpetrating said story?

[@magicker8052]

Paulogia.... is the one who knocks

[@krisbest6405]

I rarely talk about any of the gods but find them very common in alot of timelines. When l grew up in a non religious home l ventured out to see what l was missing.....each study was an opinion, some very disturbing so l remained unconvinced . Also royalty, titles etc leaves me cold. I have no fear of my last breath . Lately l,ve been interested in pastlives,now this is interesting .

[@dlewisa]

Frank Turek to JWW: May the grift be with you.

[@keithlevkoff8579]

Let me start by saying that I have been an atheist, or at least an agnostic, my entire life, so I consider exactly how the story has evolved to be academic. (If God doesn't exist then exactly whether Jesus existed, or what people believe he did, becomes a matter of popular fiction rather than history.) While I haven't studied the subject in great depth my interpretation of the situation is this... There is plenty of evidence that at least some of the story in the Bible is based on several previous older "god myths"... And, from that alone, it seems most likely to me that the story is at least partially mythological. Whether a real person named Jesus existed, or whether he is a "composite character", or even totally fictional... either way a significant part of the overall STORY is based on older myths. And, at that point, it doesn't actually matter exactly how much Jesus was based on an actual living person, and how much on existing mythology. And, if we accept that, then the reality is merely that THE STORY, rather than the particular version of it, which has "persisted so long and had such influence". (Which says nothing whatsoever to suggest that this specific version of the story has any specific level of factual reality at all.)

[@davethebrahman9870]

With regard to the ‘pupils’ of John the apostle, the evidence goes the other way to that indicate by the Good Detective. Papias says that he preferred oral tradition to the written word, thereby implying that the written records were untrustworthy. The later Church Fathers were dependent upon Papias, but they wrongly idendified the oral tradition with the gospels. In any case, the supposed ‘chain of evidence’ from John the Apostle to John the Elder to Ignatius and Polycarp involves two stages of small children listening to very old men. The alleged transmission is very shaky as to content, even if one accepts the relationships as correct.

[@NoSenatorson]

Yes, the Star Wars episode was epic.

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

Was Jesus the most influential? 🤷🏼‍♀️ I don't know, but I think that honour should go to Socrates 🙋🏼‍♀️

[@jamesdixon5714]

The claim by Wallace at around 17:40, that all the students of disciples where "saying the same thing" is incorrect. The Gnostic Christian Valentinus claimed that he was taught by Theudas, a student of the Apostle Paul, but the various Gnostic Christianities where significantly different from what would become the present-day orthodoxy (particularly with regards cosmology, Christology and salvation). A minor point, but it's something that Wallace uses as a stepping stone, and should know better than to do so.

[@MrMattSax]

OMG you guys! Jesus is totally, like, the absolutely coolest, most bestest, greatest person like EVER!

[@peterdobson3435]

Both Irenaeus[3] and Tertullian[4] say that Polycarp had been a disciple of John the Apostle, one of Jesus' disciples. This is from Wikipedia. So, the chain of custody is established on the basis of two witnesses.

[@punkrockllama]

I don't think the best thing against it is that it doesn't necessarily have to be true to have that influence. There was a good amount of time where if you were and artist, scientist, or did any intellectual, in Europe, you worked for the church. Like the church was as or more powerful than the king. So of course a lot of science and art are going to have roots in the church - they didn't have another option.

[@gritty011]

Dangit Paul 25:21 shot

[@fmtpulmanns7593]

How is this book not just an incredibly wordy and obscured argument from popularity?

[@Paulogia]

It is exactly that.

[@darthvirgin7157]

i now realize why this guy is NOT in the force anymore. a detective this full of CRAP would be useless, even detrimental to any prosecutor.

[@myoneblackfriend3151]

J. Warner Wallace: “I’m just a cold case detective….” Caveman Lawyer: “I’m just a caveman….”

[@Paulogia]

😂

[@arsyk04]

Prosecutor: "This is sworn testemony from the witness that saw the murder take place. We want this entered in to evidence." Defence: "I can't see the vitness signature here" P: "It's a copy" D: "Please bring the original" P: "It's unfortunately lost, but the copy is authentic!" D: Lost? OK. This is not a zerox is it?" P: No, we transfered it to make it more easy to read." D: "Who did?" P: "The last one was Sg Johnson, and the one before was officer Jack something." D: "Wait. You've copied it more than once?" P: "Yes." D: "How many?" P: "A few" D: "How! Many!? P: "About 50... -ish..." D: "... and you have the names of all of the people that transcribed it?" P: "I think the one before Jack was named alex or albert or something like that..:" D: "This is at best hearsay, but at it's current state it's fiction." P: "NO! It's an authentic copy!" D: "Of a copy... of a copy... of a copy..." P: "..." D: "OK. At lest give me the name of the witnbess, so that I can confirm this 'testemony'" P: "... Noone remember the witness name any more, but we're fairly sure it was a guy... "

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

Perfect representation.

[@davebeach2343]

Thank you, this comment is very accurate and as such is extremely funny.

[@bsqwahlE]

Very funny!

[@Questionablexfun]

😆😆😆

[@Marconius6]

I love the fact he actually lists "Jesus is either fictional, an average guy, or literally the creator of everything" and asks which explanation is the most reasonable... and he chooses the last one. That's just actually amazing to hear said out loud.

[@Bill_Garthright]

Isn't it, though? I mean, I expected the false dichotomy stuff - obviously, those are _not_ the only three options! - but then to hear him describe the _magical_ option as "most reasonable,"... well, I just had to laugh.

[@tim57243]

C. S. Lewis's trilemma is that Jesus was either lunatic, liar, or Lord. At that point people didn't seem to want to consider that He might be fictional, so maybe this is progress.

[@Marconius6]

@@tim57243 I always assumed that bit was preceded by "if he actually existed..." implicitly, but apparently most Christians didn't get that. If you add that bit, Lewis actually makes a pretty good argument for Jesus likely being fictional!

[@Bill_Garthright]

@@Marconius6 _I always assumed that bit was preceded by "if he actually existed..."_ But that doesn't make it much better, does it? There are _still_ other options. I'm fine with Jesus existing. That wouldn't mean we actually know what he said, though. We have nothing from Jesus himself and nothing from anyone who'd ever _met_ Jesus, as far as we can tell. Abraham Lincoln _existed._ But I'm still doubtful about the claims in "Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter." I suppose that C.S. Lewis would say Lincoln _had_ to be a Lunatic, Liar, or Vampire Hunter, huh? But I see other alternatives. :)

[@MrYondaime1995]

I just imagine a lawyer saying "either my client is guilty or he is the creator of everything thus he can kill whomever he wants" and the judge just deciding that the latter is a good claim.

[@stevegeorge6880]

It's just amazing how an apologist like Jay Warner Wallace will waste so much effort, so many hundreds of pages, on what reduces to an appeal to popularity logical fallacy.

[@Iamwrongbut]

Yeah but cash money

[@sp1ke0kill3r]

You realize he is probably getting loaded off this *waste of time* right?

[@briannewton3535]

@@Iamwrongbut Aww, bugger, I was gonna reply with similar. His book may be a work of fiction, but we do know that people buy and enjoy fiction if it is a storyline they enjoy.

[@EdwardHowton]

Heh, you must be unfamiliar with how the apologetics industry works. Logical fallacies are their bread and butter. The giant, flashing, asbestos-dusted lead-flavored feature, not a bug.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

It stops being amazing if you see how much money such empty drivel makes.

[@835FPV]

New book idea: exploring the cultural impact of Zoroaster on Christianity. We’ll call it “Persian of Interest”.

[@adrianinha19]

I'll read that!

[@artemisia4718]

I'd absolutely read that. I find Zoroastrianism fascinating, as ancient religions go!

[@Nocturnalux]

Oh, snap!

[@rimmersbryggeri]

@@artemisia4718 It's a current religion though.

[@artemisia4718]

@@rimmersbryggeri Definition of ancient: “having had an existence of many years”. I did not imply it is extinct, only that it’s origins are in Antiquity.

[@snbalmung]

I'd argue Emperor Constantine had far more impact than Jesus. He's the one who made Christianity popular in the first place. And it's worth noting that he had to use the military might of one of the largest empires that the world has ever seen to do it.

[@JerryPenna]

Then there’s colonialism that spread it further through force and coercion. Plus the church controlled the narrative too, not even allowing non clergy to read the Bible, for 1500 years.

[@fmtpulmanns7593]

So, arguably, did Paul.

[@JerryPenna]

@@fmtpulmanns7593 Constantine could influence the entire Roman Empire. Paul didn’t have that reach. Constantine more influential by far. Then there’s the colonialism spread through violence and coercion which also had a worldwide impact greater than Paul. Without those 2 it’s very questionable how influential Christianity would be.

[@Kyeudo]

Paul had more impact than Constantine, as Paul was the one that transformed Christianity from an insular Jewish sect into the first evangelical monotheistic religion. Once that happened, the conversion of an emperor was just a matter of time.

[@JerryPenna]

@@Kyeudo Ridiculous, and clearly the opinion of a religiously motivated reasoner. Constantine was a Roman Emperor. Without him using Christians to his benefit, Christianity would be a distant blimp, like lots of other failed religions or possibly a sect of Judaism.