The best ways to voice Low Brass and Horns?

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A dive into how to think about your Horns and Brass voicings when arranging your compositions and productions: what doubles well with what? How can you use Octaves? What difference does the number of players make? and should you use wide or close Harmony?

[@ridgero]

Here for your shirt!!! :))))

[@lewisinkpress]

THe shirt was a great - "tone setter" for the video Paul -- really clearly explained orchestration - well done!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks Darin!

[@lonelyseaproductions2337]

These are exactly the types of videos I need. The ways the instruments of the orchestra interact with one another is one of the more tricky areas of composition for me. Thank you Mr. Thompson!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Glad it was helpful!

[@agustinsilva6474]

Paul’s shirt should be part of the yearly tombola prizes 👏👏😉

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Love it!! 😂

[@railwayhouseshopkalkbay9414]

Exactly the kind of stuff that enables this hobbyist to leap ahead. Sincere comprehensive and gentle delivery. And the shirt! Tee hee

[@steveharder291]

Shared this vid with a friend who plays horns. He had a couple of interesting comments: Hearing all of the examples is fun. Another way some composers use to get a brighter tutti horn sound (cuivre) is add a low trumpet in the same octave. Also gets you through longer lines - you can't play flat out cuivre for very many measures. Well, some of us can't! BTW, the standard high/low/high/low seating in the horn section comes from the valveless horn days when you had, say, a pair of horns in A and another pair of horns in D.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks for this info Steve!

[@eylam9690]

Omg! only just noticed the 'very excited' t-shirt. Absolutely genius.

[@rogercawkwell5413]

Just to add to the high/low horn discussion (by a horn player): Back in the day (before valves) horn players used to specialise in playing either high or low register (using larger and smaller mouthpieces, which makes quite a difference) so horn players typically appeared in pairs. If you wanted more horn sound, you hired another pair, which would be also high/low, so 3 often played above 2. As has been said elsewhere, sometimes the second pair would be crooked in a different key so more notes were available.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thats very interesting thank you for that info!

[@MarcusHedenberg]

I never thought the day would come when you would so brazenly (and yet, so subtly) acknowledge the 'very excited' joke. On behalf of the entire composers' community, we all feel validated. I feel silly for not having previously known you could combine 3 tenor trombones with 2 bass and 1 contra. I always thought there was some sort of professional standard dictating it was one or the other. Very cool.

[@russellszabadosaka5-pindin849]

Tuba = woolly mammoth / contrabass trombone = dinosaur...may have sounded silly coming out, Paul, but it’s a metaphor that works for me. Thank you!

[@AdrianVeale]

I copied this from another thread, because I think it explains the horn arrangement better than I ever could. The reason is historical: horns 1&2 used to be in a different transposition than 3&4, and composers tended to have a high and a low horn in each transposition. For example, horns 1 and 2 might be in F, and 1 would take higher notes than 2, while horns 3 and 4 might be in G, with 3 taking the higher notes. Modern horns are always in F, but 1&3 taking higher parts than 2&4 has stuck around.

[@uesbob]

Also, back in the day, the horns had no valves, so one pair of players might be playing in one key, while the other pair were changing crooks.

[@mphonie7324]

Okay, das ist jetzt ein später Kommentar. Dieses Video ist richtig, richtig klasse. Einen Einblick zu bekommen, wie Brasses zu kombinieren sind finde ich super spannend. Vielen Dank dafür !!

[@Kingchord2000]

This teaching is beyond the four corners of a classroom. You can read treatises on orchestration but this one is from the University of Hard Knocks! More power to your youtube channel Paul!

[@PaulGordonBusby]

Some very useful tips and information there. Just two points to make. For real musicians, don't forget that for low notes on bass trombone and tuba, it takes time for the notes to speak. The musicians take this into account but it can be difficult in fast passages. The other point is that there are various mutes which trombones, like trumpets can use to alter the sound and volume of their instruments. I found from writing music for 5 or 6 trombones and rhythm section that the most useful mutes are cup, bucket, plunger and straight. Cups soften the sound and can be combined with much softer instruments like flutes and clarinets. Buckets also reduce the brassiness and volume and widen the sound. Plungers, used a lot in jazz, are useful as closed plungers can give an extremely soft almost stifled sound - very useful if there is a passage where muted trombones are followed by unmuted ones. It takes time to take mutes off and put them on. To be honest, I never liked straight mutes. I don't know what classical composers have against brass mutes. They should listen to some top-notch big bands to see what they've been missing.

[@1000buffalos]

WOW. I am glad I found this. I always feel inadequately prepared to arrange horns. This presentation makes a lot of sense, and makes me want more Spitfire samples to get "just that" sound.

[@DennisCaunce]

I lost it when I saw the shirt...

[@alexkije]

Great I was fiddling around with unison horn. No strings. And when you added a cello, WOWSER! Thus, I am seeking a lonely sound. And I ignored the cello. So back to work! Thanks for sharing!

[@LouieTaylorMusic]

Very Insightful, Paul! A true educator dedicated to helping others!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks Louie!

[@willernst6405]

My understanding regarding the horn part distribution (1 & 3 being high, 2 & 4 being low) is that historically you could have 2 high-low pairs playing in different keys (no valves yet, so they'd be using crooks for different keys). Seating also can be adjusted by part (line of 4 or 2x2).

[@VicViper26]

This is pretty remarkable, Paul. Extremely practical, essential advice delivered concisely. I have pretty bad adult ADHD and can struggle with long videos, but you had me totally focused the whole way through. Thanks for this!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Glad to hear that Vic and thanks for your encouragement!

[@dwz1222]

Paul, these videos are awesome. Please keep doing them. Big thank you!

[@garysalyers7611]

This was a great video Paul. Thanks!

[@andyhardwickmusiccomposer]

Brilliant stuff, Paul - thank you! I too would love to see more of these.

[@petersvan7880]

Awesome video, there's a lot to learn here. Thank you Paul!

[@BradThac]

This was top-notch. Thank you

[@holgerkohn6332]

Paul, thanks for this Video. I am just restarting doing composing with midi and vst, long after the first time I worked with an Atari and later with Cubase in 1986 and the following decade. Today, there is the whole world of sounds in our hands.

[@scotthjohnson1558]

Really helpful and great to hear the different examples...thank you, Paul!

[@fmussnig]

Thank you so much - that was really great!

[@musicbydavidsmith]

I am loving the t-shirt, and excellent insights. Thanks.

[@SteveMacLachlan]

These orchestration tutorials are very helpful. Thank you!

[@RussellNollenMusic]

Thank you for sharing this. I got some fresh perspectives on some different options that I might not have considered or stumbled upon before. I enjoyed the lessons!

[@lownotesinc1962]

Thank you, Paul- This is the best class on KZbin!

[@jensloetzsch]

Absolutely love these videos, very informative and detailed, thank you for doing this ! And by the way, this is also a great demonstration how awesome the ,, old '' Symphonic Brass library is !

[@TemmeSikkema]

Love the tshirt. Great video! Thanks Paul.

[@anievestor]

Paul this is beyond awesome thank you soooooooo much. This puts everything in perspective. Thank you again for you contributions to our understanding of orchestration. Take care Tony

[@spadogs]

Thank you Paul. I really appreciate your insights.

[@wolfie8748]

Really helpful paul , thank you

[@Frank.Zimmermann]

Thanks very much Paul! For me as a budding composer this series is extremely helpful! Looking forward to seeing the next episode. Cheers Paul! 👏😀

[@piktormusic2538]

Thank you for the ideas.

[@AlistairMelville]

Many thanks Paul, so helpful as low brass can be a very tricky area for new composers like me to get our heads around. Very practical and clear. Thank you.

[@MoonhareStudio]

"Best ways to voice" is one of my favourite things on KZbin. Always interesting, always inciteful and best of all really useful. Thank you so much.

[@Whally]

Great video ! Always very excited by your new video ! 😜

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thank you!

[@Gawkie]

Thank you so much for these Videos Mr paul, tremendously helpful

[@hairongchen1634]

This video is gold!

[@TheSimonCarlile]

I love your approach to exploring combinations - I know I should probably find it straight forward to do the same but its a bit like what they say about great philosophy - “it’s obvious once spoken” - the genius is in the speaking. Thanks Paul.

[@chrismatarazzomusic8086]

Thanks very much, Paul. Compelling and instructive as always!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@terrycaster4976]

Great tips and advice. Thank you.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Glad it’s useful!

[@SamuelHaak]

Incredibly helpful mate, thank you!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Glad to hear!

[@chas1085]

Excellent exploration and tutorial - thanks!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

You're very welcome!

[@edmasters4454]

Great information, Paul - thanks for sharing!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks Ed!

[@JustMusicV2012]

I love it, super helpful. Thanks!

[@gregjanes474]

Thanks Paul. Appreciate the detail.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks Greg!

[@NicStride]

Thanks for the tips, Paul!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

You’re welcome Nic!

[@rhicksmusic]

Superb! That’s given me a lot to think about

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks Robert!

[@edoardosimeone8314]

Great as usual! Can’t wait to see the video about trumpets!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks! Coming soon!

[@KristopherMichael7463]

Another amazing session!! Thank You for taking the time to do this for us. Every video I learn something new or just hearing a small tip that sparks a great idea. Thank You for being our unofficial instructor...I have a whole page of lessons I look forward to every day. You are a very great person for doing this!! Endless Thanks.....

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks for the kind words Kristopher!

[@leadersoundproductions4666]

Brilliant information. Thats gonna help me a lot with my compositions, thanks Paul!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks Johno!

[@johnjoedaly]

Wow, this is really helpful, thank you 👍

[@nativeVS]

Loving that T-Shirt and the restraint in choice of words in the intro; it seemed you were approaching some excitement in the outro, but still managed to get away without mentioning the word. I'd love to know who decided to get you that T-Shirt. Sadly this still hasn't really helped me to write more Tuba parts; I seem to delegate it mostly to Oompa chords with Horns (maybe there is a bit of my German blood showing) and occasionally below some lovely horn chords, but generally for the more full on contemporary sound it seems to be all about getting as many trombones (and related families) moving as much air as possible.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

I think for the modern sound - 6 bones for every tuba!! That will keep you safely away from oompa!

[@davidsinclair699]

Thanks Paul for a wonderful exposition. I hope you do more of these for other instruments in the orchestra.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks David! More to come!

[@pjdahmen]

thank you for the helpful tutorial and well done

[@lesliemakin]

I'm a BBCSO Core user and I'll try out these ideas for my March composition. Thanks for the video 👍👍

[@fransteeno]

Very thought provoking.

[@henryboltz5776]

I love your shirt! I need it! ❤ Greetings from Argentina

[@dafingaz]

Incredible!

[@snooganssupreme1339]

Late to the party but your shirt is first class, friend. Love it!

[@nbevan3]

These are a great set of videos, thank you. One thing that would really help me is a pdf of the different arrangements so that I can follow as you play. I have tried to create a cheat sheet for myself but I think that I missed some steps.

[@EberFilipeSunlight91]

Thank you Paul! Hugs from Brazil!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Back at you!

[@d20sounds31]

I Love the Shirt! Thank you for your great content

[@StarshipTrooper4231]

This is actually the hardest thing for me to master. Writing music is no problem. But combining the timbre, characters etc of all the instruments is real science.

[@roywinston3061]

Paul, Thank you very much for this. It is really interesting and extremely helpful. Roy

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks Roy!

[@WillWilson]

Love the t-shirt! Very jealous about the CTAO (Pro) version of SSB!

[@davidefant3045]

Among my favorite type of videos! Awesome! More more more! 🙏🏻 Really Excited too about Paul’s new haircut. 😂

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Cut it myself with clippers!!

[@davidefant3045]

@@PaulThomsonMusic self-cut? Wow. I don’t dare to go there: at the moment I’m not interested in becoming a single dad. 😂

[@Music-nj4tq]

Nice video !

[@carlw]

For Horns the 1,3 2,4 thing is a historical remnant. 1,2 were in one key 3,4 were in another key. The odds had higher and evens had lower. It just stuck around.

[@JohnSk82]

Very excited tshirt hahahah YOU'RE A LEGEND MATE

[@RenevolutionAccount]

thank you - excellent !

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

You’re welcome!

[@ricgus3]

Wow that shirt! Going all in on the meme! :) love it Paul! Really good video on this topic! subbed and liked :)

[@DanielMichaelSok]

Love your work, the videos, London - and the whole Spitfire Team and Products... Where can I buy the t shirt, Paul ? :-)

[@MarsenK1]

I love your shirt!

[@DavideChiarello]

Fantastic content, very informative! And that shirt...!!!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

It had to be done!!

[@FLH3official]

Excellent & usefull video! A reassuring view: The red exclamation mark in the Paul's own BBC SO plugin. It happens even to the best! 😀 And yes, at 30'55'', Bimbo Jet intro played bells up is a must! 😎

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

😂

[@airc6361]

LOVE YOU PAUL 💕 You are my favourite

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks!

[@caradaly1661]

Love the T-shirt 👍

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

thanks! had to be done!

[@AlbertKimMusic]

Wowww thanks a lot for this

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

You’re welcome Albert!

[@henrik5284]

Hey Paul, I love your t-shirt! People capable of self-irony are the best! 🙂👍

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks Henrik!!

[@jamestrujillo8780]

For some reason, I felt very excited to see this...

[@klrowdean]

One explanation I've heard for the horn parts 2nd 3rd inversion is that it dates to handwritten parts, with a 1st/2nd page and a 3rd/4th page, and for denser harmonies it is easier to read if the notes are farther apart - your eyes are less distracted by the line not particularly near yours ... but that feels old wives tale-y

[@BCISTUDIOS]

Hell yea my friend using Aston Mics. I recently was accepted to their Artist Artist Panel. Excellent work mate

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks! I do love the Astons - although under that pop shield is a telefunken - the budget 51

[@tickscollector9029]

@@PaulThomsonMusic I was just ready to ask what mic you're using there... sounds lovely! Before that one you used an RE20?

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Yes previously - but the setup means I’m a bit far from the RE20 - so I’m using the TF51 now. Really great on voice and very close to the sound of the Elam251!

[@motionPush]

Hi Paul, thank you for your products, enjoying each purchase of them. Since the first presentation I saw you doing awhile back I've been wanting to ask you about your approaches to composition. Everything you've demoed sounds cohesive but not trivial or by the book. I understand you've developed it throughout the years and a short answer probably wouldn't suffice but is there a chance to share any sources on practical/contemporary composition that you find effective? Thank you for your time.

[@JeffDouglas_]

20:35 Lol, monster bones

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Old school!

[@timolebeck6405]

That shirt man! xDDDD (and awesome content as always^^)

[@cwgochris71]

Great shirt.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks!!

[@r.kapaun01]

Please tell us where to get that shirt! I love it. Also, great information as usual. Love these videos from you, Paul. (Edit) I often think that have the brass and horns nailed down. After all, its simple with expression and dynamic faders and if I mess it up I can hand write those aspects. However, It turns out I feel I am usually missing something... this video points out what I was doing incorrectly. Turns out, I need to think more 'strings' when playing brass. I have not really been doing that, until now. Thanks again. Also, great to hear there is more content coming. I know you are busy but, these are really great videos and I (for one) value them a great deal. (EDIT 2) Any chance we can get a live session from Paul Thomson (not spitfire, etc.) sometime? I ask because this is some great content but, I end up with at least a few questions every time... for example, does this method work with shorts or other articulations? It would be nice to watch and learn sometimes and yet have the possibility of asking a question or specific example.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks Ronald - great idea re live - I’ll get my head around that and schedule something!

[@r.kapaun01]

@@PaulThomsonMusic That would be amazing if you can make it work. I know you are busy but, I think you would be pretty amazed by the questions and participation. Again, thanks for ALL of this work you have done on this channel. I know SA gets much of the attention and flash. However, your work shifts the basics provided by SA to a far more in-depth level. Please keep it up! At least 15,000 (as of today) of us really enjoy this type of thing.

[@nickjones5641]

Thank you for this demonstration! I have Abbey Road One, should I wait for solo instruments from this collection, or pick up BBCSO?

[@rubenmolino1480]

excelent ¡¡

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks!

[@Alchemetica]

Thanks Paul that was an excellent education piece, so well explained and demonstrated. It raised one question, that is how do you mic a French horn when sampling, does the close mic face the player or the bell?

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Engineers argue about this!! Always from the front, but many also put a mic behind as well. But bear in mind - the Tree is the main sound for the mix.

[@Alchemetica]

@@PaulThomsonMusic Thanks for the answer and reminding me of the tree.

[@robertmcwilliams9361]

This is excellent - thanks Paul! BTW, what is the software you are using?

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks! Logic Pro is the DAW

[@grebett]

Paul, what are these wrists cushions you're using? Very nice and informative video! Thanks a lot!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks! They’re from: www.imakproducts.com

[@grebett]

​ @Paul Thomson Thank you for taking the time to answer. It's much appreciated :)

[@0hhtecMusicianTheNotecianHero]

I bet the reason why brass works in close harmony well--even in the lower end--is because brass instruments have a lot more resonance in the higher harmonics