Pedaling efficiency and anti-squat (MTB suspension Ep.21)

[@kdub6911]

You should do a video on the effect an oval chain ring has on pedal bob.🍻

[@kyleslater5245]

I’d watch that! Though if I’m honest... I watch most of this stuff anyways...

[@Ghostina1]

wanna see that too!

[@justsayin3600]

I am considering buying an oval chain ring. I would really like to see and hear an explanation. I always enjoy your videos!

[@gte717v]

I bought and installed an oval chainring because of how it makes the bike feel while climbing.

[@andrextr]

Yes, thats an interesting ideia for a video. An oval chainring should slightly reduce the pedal bob because it makes the power output slightly more constant. I will think about a video. Thanks

[@JamesRobertMTB]

This is a rad explanation! I like it

[@youtubeattacker]

You are back! Jordi from Fox gave a shoutout for you on where he learnt suspension tuning in one of their Dialed videos.

[@andrextr]

Hi! Yes I saw it, it was one month ago (more and less). Cheers

[@taneliharkonen2463]

Wow this was a good video! Learned a ton! Plus u have a very easy to listen voice.. :)

[@guillermoqueirolo6533]

Great explanation 💯% thank you to show some 🚲and modifications👍

[@Ryan-dz3jo]

Great video.

[@chito13hg]

Great videos.

[@cliffordrichardc]

wish you new film

[@MRTNPRODUX]

Interesting stuff

[@Ghostina1]

Incredible!!

[@jasonlewis6914]

I own a new full suspension mountain bike. Honesty just does compare to my xtr hardtail I ride it 80% of the time. More nimble and climbing ability is on a different level. Full suspension It just takes bumps better.

[@Eduardo_Espinoza]

So cool, now I know the mystery of how drag racing cars rise up when they accelerate :).

[@Turbohotte1]

Damn you should build your own Bikes. I would buy one straight away!

[@DaveH1977]

From the close up picture I thought your friends Horst Link has snapped!

[@MonstrNRG1]

Hello, can u make a review of nicolai m pire st suspension?

[@matthewhodges892]

Is this the same result on any YT had a with matching chainring and cassette sizes?

[@tadejparavan65]

Love you vids, keep them coming :) What if the rear suspension is blocked/locked and secondly what happens when it's dampened really well but not blocked? Thanks

[@andrextr]

If the shock is blocked the suspension does not moves so there is no energy loss (all energy goes to the wheel like an hardtail). If you have a stiff compression (eg: pedal climb switch on) it also helps to reduce the energy loss. Anything that can reduce the amplitude of oscillations in the rear travel maximizes pedal efficiency. Firming the suspension or Reducing the suspension travel ultimately also reduces this amplitude and thats why shorter travel bikes or lower SAG makes the bike more nimble and reactive to pedaling in oposition to a long travel soft suspension. Cheers

[@dmrfnk]

@@andrextr It's a brainfuck to think that when the damper resists movement and turns some of the energy into heat, it'll still be more efficient than without a damper :-)

[@kyleslater5245]

Interesting. I wanted to use a larger front ring (if I can find one) but this will decrease antisquat then likely. Well if I had the same type of suspension. Probably gonna have to experiment I guess.

[@andrextr]

As a rule of thumb, increasing the chainring by 2T usually drop antisquats by 5 to 10% on average.

[@kyleslater5245]

This applies to vpp as well. M9 in this case? I guess 10% is semi tolerable anyways.

[@aLn12301]

So I ride this same gen Tues frame, I want to change the stock chaining from 34 to 28 to achieve a gear range more suited to me. The tues comes with a 7spd cassete that is 9-21t. Even Gwin would size down to a 32t chaining when he was on YT. That 9t rear cog is SMALL and useless with a 36t chainring. So I guess what is a reasonable lower limit for chaining size on this frame while maintaining good pedaling efficiency and anti-squat.

[@andrextr]

For each 2T decrease on front chainring you increase average anti-squats by around 5 to 10% (grossly speaking). With a 28T you probably end up with around 150-200% anti-squats. Personally I would stick with a larger front chainring (32, 34 or 36T) and play around with the cassette range :)

[@aLn12301]

@@andrextr Thanks!

[@karandcuroprabakaran8511]

I m getting one

[@kangandres]

when change to 22t from 32t, is anti squat is more or squat force is more ? more videos please andre. biggest fans.

[@andrextr]

Anti-Squat is higher. The Squat is proportional to bike acceleration only. The ratio between both forces gives you the final % value

[@kangandres]

@@andrextr more analysis for those modern bike.. like intense carbine, santa cruz nomad 4, forbidden druid, norco shore 2021 .. thanks

[@p10tr3k7]

Nice videos :D

[@ivansinmas6052]

Buen video, pero el problema que tengo es que no se hablar en inglés, y ya hice algunas recomendaciones a una marca famosa de suspensiones que es , poner una persona de traductor/a por ejem el español se habla en muchos países.

[@monarch8188]

What about fork offset/trail physics? It's very interesting to know how it works!

[@lukedesaulniers5943]

Andre, what would that have done to his pedal kickback? Wouldn’t it be significantly worse with this mod?

[@andrextr]

Yes kickback increases a lot also. Smaller chainring and larger rear cogs always increase kickback. Although kickback is mostly relevant on climbings and is not very noticeable on descends (because of the freehub).

[@everywherelocal]

yeah! 🙃

[@dank6761]

I am interested to know the benefits of gearbox bikes like the Zerode on suspension..is it possible that the zerode with linkage driven single pivot, 100% antisquat through all travel and only around 22% progressivity is still able to have the best feeling suspension because of less mass on the rear wheel? Everyone who tries the Zerode and Deviate say it is the best suspension they have felt even though the kinematics are less than perfect. Is this possible to have such a large affect and does this lower mass on the rear wheel only make a difference on small fast bumps or also on larger big hits? I want to know an unbiased opinion from someone who knows the physics and difference the gearbox bikes makes and if it is enough to outweigh their poorer kinematics?

[@andrextr]

Hi! It's an interesting question and that is a topic I want to make a video (for a couple of years now). I've done a simulation 2 or 3 years ago using a basic physics software showing that the heavier the rear part of the bike (unsprung mass of suspension) the less the wheel could track the ground over bumps and the less it was planted to the ground over the bumps (so the wheel gets more time airbone after hitting a bump crest, because of the inertia/momentum of the extra weight). This is an important topic in cars (racing applications). But I only started to saw differences using very heavy rear non-realistic wheels (like 10 or 20 kg). So, I don't think that 1 or 2 pounds would affect much given that it won't change much the sprung/unsprung mass ratio % (the sprung mass includes part of the rider weight and frame). Regarding the Deviate, it's very different story from Zerode, simply because it's an high-pivot bike (the axle path gets a more rearwarded shape and anti-rises are higher). IMO this is more relevant than the weight savings on the rear wheel (I think there is some placebo effect here, where people are already biased to feel better traction in a gearbox setup, but I don't have an actual proof of that). Cheers

[@dank6761]

@@andrextr Interesting..Yes a video would be good. However if I can show an example of Nicolai G16 vs Nicolai G16 with gearbox you can see a large difference in this test. m.pinkbike.com/video/463603/ Also I spoke to Chris Porter, you may know him as founder of Geometron and suspension tuner of 20 years. He explained to me that Progressive damping is better on a bicycle rather than digressive because in fact the rider is not "always" part of the sprung mass, sometimes the riders weight through the pedals is maximum and sometimes it is zero, this is why he says sprung to unsprung ratio is important as the bike frame is usually not heavy enough to compensate the unsprung weight and why he is one of the only suspension tuners promoting progressive damping in the rear shock. Interested what you thought's on this may be? Basically the frame is not heavy enough to use digressive damping effectively which is what vehicles use, and as the rider is not in constant contact and exerting maximum weight through the pedals at all times progressive damping is a more effective solution. Also the gearbox bikes increase the sprung to unsprung mass a reasonable amount, this would explain the superior feeling when the rider is in situations where not maximum rider weight is exerted through the pedals. Also inertia of the rear wheel, say for example rear wheel and stays weighr 1.5kg, if the cassette and derailleur weigh say 0.5kg this is still a significant %, therefore is easier to move away from the bump.We must bear in mind though that these theories are very new and only known by a few people, this is not common knowledge in the buyers market. As we know marketing is very good at lying to us... Shocks like the Fox X2 series are inferior as they are poppet valve shocks but in fact Fox markets them as superior as they have "more" adjustments, when the reality is the useable range of adjustment without the low and high speed having negative effects on each other is actually much lower.

[@johannvidelarodriguez4357]

Could you do a review about linkage of Whyte g170s v2 2020? I couldn't find anything about it 😔

[@andrextr]

Hi. Yes I can do an analysis and report of that bike. I am now providing this as a service, since this takes time. If interested please send me a request on my website. Cheers

[@johannvidelarodriguez4357]

@@andrextr do u have a website? Can you give me the link? Or your Instagram

[@andrextr]

www.andrextr.com

[@insanityofgravity]

Hi Andrè, thanks for your video. Which COG height did you use for calculation of AS and could you please show AS graph? Thanks!

[@andrextr]

The curve was a relatively straight line starting at 260% AS and ending at 100% AS. The COG was 1050mm from the ground. Cheers.

[@dallysalyno4151]

what program do u use??

[@andrextr]

Linkage X3 , I have a dedicated video about it

[@andrewnicholas7410]

One thing that I’ve been thinking about anti squat, is this calculation is based on an assumed center of gravity right? Does this mean that someone who is taller and/or has a very high seatpost would want more anti squat to be in an ideal pedaling situation?

[@andrextr]

Yes its based on the height of center of gravity. But it is also based on the wheel base distance. Grossly speaking, taller riders also need larger frames, which have larger wheel bases, so these two factors kind of cancel out each other.

[@taunir713]

Can you do a review of the new Transition Sentinel v2 ?

[@andrextr]

Never looked for Sentinel yet, but I've looked for Scout and they seem to be relatively similar. The Scout kinematics are very good, with nice progression and anti-squat. Sentinel should also be good. If you want an in-depth report drop me a request on my website. Cheers

[@insanityofgravity]

Hi, graphics at 4:46 are not perfect. Because when you accelerate you always the front decompresses! You can see this also in your video when the bike accelerates. I like high anti squat especially when I need to accelerate fast in a transfer section. Check this blog: insanityofgravity.blogspot.com/ there is very interesting content around bikes!