Penalty Added For Leaving Dungeons - Throne And Liberty

[@therealr0bert]

1. 30 min timeout for leaving 2. Make it cost tokens to enter. So a 300 token chest costs 250 but it cost 50 to enter so chronic leavers are punished more then one offs. 3. Add a helper system for experienced players to get extra reward for helping inexperienced players, plenty of ways to do that.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

DUDE THAT TOKEN ENTRY IS SO CRACKED, NOW THAT'S AN IDEA! HOLY MOLY! Legit keep it the same price to open a chest, just put part of that in the entry fee. Wooow, that's definitely something to think about. Your brain is actually massive.

[@reborn4uCA]

What also sux is when ppl kick others at the end b4 getting the boss done so those ppl dont get the gear

[@skizzoidsgames1188]

so to troll others all i have to do is wipe a group until people leave yes? pull a bunch of mobs to the party and then stealth got it. i could literally tank other peoples progression. on top of that with the system you propose why would ANY healer or tank que for the dungeons where they don't need gear, haha enjoy your 7 hour que for deaths abyss. holy shit think things through just a little people

[@skizzoidsgames1188]

@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 so to troll others all i have to do is wipe a group until people leave yes? pull a bunch of mobs to the party and then stealth got it. i could literally tank other peoples progression. on top of that with the system you propose why would ANY healer or tank que for the dungeons where they don't need gear, haha enjoy your 7 hour que for deaths abyss. holy shit think things through just a little people. brain isn't massive your just stupid

[@MaizenC]

@@skizzoidsgames1188 absolutely as a healer if they put that in the game im done.

[@ThadViper]

Left a cave of destruction with 3 bots in the party last night. If I were to get penalized for that I would be pissed......

[@Dabubabyboi]

@ThadViper see this is what I'm saying and it doesn't seem like anyone in these comments sees that side of spectrum lol. They had someone leave and it rubbed them wrong. Which makes sense honestly and is justified. But also 5 people not listening or just watching you healer not heal for 40 minutes is crazy and no one should be forced to stay

[@ThadViper]

@@Dabubabyboi yea I genuinely understand the frustration on both ends but only (in theory) implementing a fix for one side is just straight up not fair. Luckily my dungeon runs have been decent aside from that incident though.

[@botta88]

@@Dabubabyboibut if there is no system, then the devs are leaving everything up to the player. And when that happens people will straight up abuse it. So while you may have legit concerns, the system already grants you the flexibility to deal with your problem but at the expense of others. There should be a middle ground. Maybe a system that times out serial leavers or something like that.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yes, I think there is a difference between someone who leaves every now and then vs someone who constantly leaves parties. Usually someone who leaves once (especially if it's a reason such as a teams skill) most likely will keep doing it and that's a rhythm I feel needs to be addressed. Almost all team games allow a player to leave every now and then, but multiple times is almost always unacceptable no matter the reason. That's because it ruins everyone else's experience in that specific game. I think the main thing is there is a party finder to get the teams you want. To queue in to matchmaking willingly accepting you may get people you don't want to work with and leaving is a poor experience for everyone. Least imo.

[@gampie13]

@@Dabubabyboi speaking as a staff/wand healer, in any "competent group" my biggest contribution/source of healing, is my leech vampyric trait, all other healing abilities, are generaly only for mechanics, making the run go faster, or a clutch. The vampyric leech heals do WAY more healing than all other healing abilities combined in most groups, since no one ever stacks or do things propperly. And at the bottom end, activly makes sure that i CANT heal them, constantly sprinting away and dying to dumb shit. Frankly, in comparasin of what a healer does in this game, compared to any other mmo. Healers in this game, are "supports" at best. Going by % vise and tools at hand, the augmentation dmg dealing buffer in wow does WAY more healing and has access to better healing tools than pure healers in this game

[@seyfer110]

Ok, but they should ALSO make it impossible for DPS to join the matchmaking as healer-tank...

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

They should.

[@BiscuitDelivery]

Good luck ever finding a tank for Tyrant's Isle then. The dungeon doesn't need a tank and it drops literally nothing a tank would want

[@rplewis]

@@BiscuitDelivery Too bad. Get a tank.

[@eric_of_weird2776]

That depends on the group. I tried healing the level thirty coop dungeon yesterday. One dude had a green dagger and no second weapon. Another had a blue bow and a level zero dagger. I tried three times to heal these idiots as they stood in the acid. They of course blamed me. So I left. Should I be penalized because I can't heal through stupid?

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yes, I think leaving any team game should have its penalty, you'll always have poor players regardless of the game. However, if you're someone who doesn't leave every lobby you wouldn't feel the penalty. Once in a while is fine, but multiple times isn't. Maybe the easy way to do it is to give a player a grace period, something like one leave per day. You realistically shouldn't have to leave a dungeon (being the first one that is) more than once a day. I myself have never left a dungeon unless others left first. TLDR: If you only leave once in a blue moon, that's fine. It's the players who leave multiple times a day or multiple days in a row for dislike of their team. No matter the game you play with matchmaking, there is always a penalty for leaving.

[@nabstix8745]

@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 if the reason for not progressing is a rando who doesnt listen or communicate and dungeons are not designed to be soloed that will make people leave, happens in every game, the problem are the people who come to leech even more so from the USA region servers they literally join and wait for others to finish the dungeon for them, most of them que as tank/heals and dont hold aggro or heal anything, and ff14 is a bad system where i had dungeons there were i was held prisoner for 1 hour for a 15 minute dungeon because people wouldnt even try playing, bad players should always be punished in your example bad players are the leeches who at the moment cant be punished so people opt to leave and find a proper group

[@IllTygerKing]

I left a dungeon when the full party didn't want to follow simple instructions on Magna, and then started to antagonize me for trying to lead the party. I dipped out on the 3rd wipe cause I had no patience to deal with sht.

[@SammaelGwyn]

They need to introduce a raise spell. That is the reason dungeons are so miserable. Most of the time half the people are dead before the bosses Hp reaches 50%. Imagine how miserable FF14 would be with out resurrection.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

LMAO, FF with no raise OOF. That'd be chaos.

[@InkPrince]

I used to queue up for Primals in ff14 over and over for hours and days helping people and just enjoying the fights.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Trials has some baaaanging music man.

[@xMrNight]

penalty 100% if you leave and the party hasn't reached the boss, smaller penalty after 1 failed try on the boss, no penalty after 3 failed tries on the boss seems good to me

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Oh that's an interesting take, make it based on progress/attempts rather than time spent within the dungeon itself. That's a cool way to look at it.

[@PucPoo]

That's a really good idea actually.

[@gampie13]

that is still abusable, there are already problems with idiots ninja pulling bosses

[@MaizenC]

absolutely no penalty for leaving. had a dungeon today, the tank was trying to sneak passed a bunch of mobs, running way ahead of people. people in the back kept aggroing because they didnt know the min max pass everything pathway and as the healer i would pull all the aggro trying to keep everyone alive and no tank to pull them off because he went running way ahead of everyone. screw that, not worth the aggravation. if i got a penalty for leaving that mess, i would just quit playing the game.

[@MaizenC]

on a side note, i love dungeons in other games, played the hell out of them in wow, rift, ff14 etc, absolutely hate running them in this game. my tokens have been capped all week and i just dont even want to bother with them. i have a feeling alot of healers prob feel the same way.

[@Pokey-xp9gn]

​@@MaizenC healing is so frustrating In this game it isn't even funny

[@MaizenC]

@@Pokey-xp9gn yeah i havent even completed any of the 50 dungeons, parties are horrid.

[@Dabubabyboi]

I think after talking to a wow buddy of mine. It should be down to time limit. If you are running a dungeon for 15-20 mins and leave you should be fine. It shows you tried and couldn't. But if you are in for less time you get a 30 minute ban

[@kylar5677]

Its way faster to leave at the end of a dungeon and find a new party that can complete it in a short maner of time than to suffer through bots trying to acomplish their dreams of blocking a single telegraphed furry attack for 50 minutes. If you have an issue with people leaving on you, make your own parties. And if they decide to implement panelties i will make my own but i dont see why they shoud cater to the dissabled.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

That is an...interesting attitude to have. 👀

[@alm08e]

I 100% agree with ya on this one. I've played pretty much every major MMO. The mentor system from FF wasn't perfect, but it was the best solution I've seen to the issue! Also, people who are gonna ragequit half way through shouldn't be using party finder-- that's to get your feet dipped into the dungeon. If they want to have some high standard for performance, they should list party with specific reqs on the party board. Hell, slap a minimum Ilvl on it and title it "reclear know mechs" or some similar on the board. To play a bit of devil's advocate, I do think they'd need to have some sort of vote quit/surrender system if they insert any leaver penalties though-- otherwise it can be abused to troll.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yea, I was thinking a vote system would be ok too. FF14 has something like that as well.

[@arturius9715]

Let's hope there's not a penalty. I made a party for roaring temple and two of the players went into abyss instead. I literally had to matchmake four different times inside the dungeon because somebody would keep joining abyss.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

I don't think there should be a penalty for a premade party, but matchmaking with randoms was my focus. Was that with randoms?

[@arturius9715]

@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 yea, it was randoms. Four of us went to roaring and the other two went to abyss. I had to stop multiple times to matchmake. The matchmaking in general is very bad in this game. A lot of newer players will just sit in the menues waiting for it to start instead of backing out and accepting.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

That's interesting, I thought matchmaking auto-pulled everyone into the same dungeon. I've never experienced that before, hope that gets fixed then if they do add penalties.

[@gampie13]

I think this is related to the party board, it is constantly bugging out. I am losing count of how manny times I browse for a cave, only for the party to be for another dungeon, even though according to the party leader, they where only listed for x dungeon... there are SOOOO manny bugs and server issues in the game

[@lukeguest300]

3:39 I feel you there! Was trying to learn temple of slaughter and the tank asked for the lead then kicked everyone after only 2 attempts at the boss... toxic af.

[@Miss-Alissa]

as a solo player most time i stand behind this give them penalty now i hate them players 1st i qeue for over an hour then i have people leave they need punishment right away

[@tobyhill8510]

I hear you. They need to implement something for all this and especially impatient people starting dungeons without the full party at final boss.

[@williamfancyson9184]

I don’t do matchmaking. I tried a couple of times. The players were horribly inept these tiny dungeons are supposed to be done in 12-15min not a half hour or longer because the people can’t do mechanics meant for a child’s intelligence. Also unless mentorship gives a worthwhile reward ppl wouldn’t use it. And if it did give a worthwhile reward people would abuse it like an s&s wand player can let the noobs die and solo the boss even if the boss takes forever to kill they’d let the noobs sit at the door for 15min because they died and solo the remaining bosses health and collect the bonus rewards for mentorship roulette matchmaking.

[@botta88]

I agree 1000% with this. Dungeons have been miserable for me with matchmaking. Unless the run is perfect, someone almost always leaves and a dungeon that should have taken 10-15 minutes end up taking me 1-1.5 hours

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

The worst part is having to re-explain the mechanics to the new batch of players you get. Ain't nothing worse than having to explain the same thing four to five times because a different group of people keep hopping in because the previous groups keep leaving. 😂

[@mauricebrown6182]

There’s a huge difference between this game and ffxiv and that is it’s free. A free mmo rpg invites a level of toxicity that a paid one would never see. Do I agree with most of what you’ve said ? Yes, but players have their individual reasons for leaving. Games been out for 10 months in Korea there are plenty of guides that are literally 5 minutes long there’s no real reason to go in blind. To be honest this issue wasn’t a problem in early access. Players were more understanding and nicer in comparison. I main classed healer in ffxiv and currently playing healer in Throne honestly I don’t feel like being punished for leaving a dungeon due to time constraints and wiping 7-10 times on a boss due to ppl trolling or not willing to watch a video to at least understand the mechanics aka Butchers Canyon.

[@kewk]

Yes, there should be penalties... and I've left dungeons myself :D if the tank pulls 1 trash mob I know it's not gonna be fun and would rather go find someone more experienced :D I absolutely love the mentor idea also.

[@excelion7109]

Problem arises when you enter a dungeon that that requires coordination of more than 1 person, and 5 people refuse to talk and act just like bots. So it becomes impossible to complete said dungeon. Lets not go with people who have no idea what build and gear they're running and queue for the wrong role. Since in here the minimum level is 1600 which often makes dps be 1 shotted by many aoe and raidwide mechanics, or they just like sitting in fire and poison(as ranged). In ff dungeons are very formula like and if I see someone in lv70 dungeon, I know they (not counting skip) have seen 50 other dungeons and pretty much know not to sit in fire, as well as their class being linearly progressed. I do love the idea to have "Join anything" button to help fill a slot. Because after I get my gear as tank, I'm fine just joining random dungeon to spend my tokens so they don't cap... and hopefully get little extra bonus for that.

[@zombie5017]

2 nights ago i joined a group that posted in the LFG chat so i quickly joined their deaths Abyss and I could tell some were new'ish. we got through to the dps check pre main fight relatively easily with some guidance from myself. The others asked about changed mechanics so i did my best to guide them. A person who never followed any mechanics left and called us bad. few poeple later still more people left and i thought about leaving but i stuck it out, I had nothing else to do... long story short, got a few more people in and cleared it a few tries later. I used to be a raid sherpa back in destiny 1 era

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yea, you see it's stuff like that where it's just like...really dude? Come on. Why be toxic first off and second just leaving because of your own mistakes? Wild.

[@zombie5017]

@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 I am never a huge fan of punishment systems,. Reason being is that they are hard to balance. the group can already vote to kick people out.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yea, that's in FF14 too and players would abuse it as well. I think the reasoning behind it is that it does more help than harm and that's usually what devs think about. Yes, there are a few bad apples, but are those enough to ruin the experience for the majority? That's personally why I feel leaving should be addressed. There are too many players leaving for no real reason and it ruins 5 players gaming experience. Times that by 100 or even 1000 or more and there are a LOT of players affected. Doing something about it would maybe suck for a few of those people, but the overall positivity would be worth it. Just saying that could be what they think about before they implement something to combat it. I do think it will be addressed eventually though, there is no way they leave it as is.

[@zombie5017]

@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 The toxicity is the main reason why I have only done 3 of the lvl 50 dungeons. Im a really patient individual and I learn things extremely quickly. I know that others learn slower and get yelled at for learning and not knowing. I would rather teach you so hopefully you teach the next person and maybe they will teach the next.

[@IzzyRock]

Facts💯.... some people also need to realize that not everyone will know the mechanics. Take some time and teach will go a long way... penalty for leaving a matchmaking party would work for me... 😎... it's a game. We need to have fun during our playtime.

[@hark9283]

Are you on a english speaking server I'm on oce and the Auto translate does not translate so good so it's hard to try and explain mechanics. When there is miscommunication.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

I have a lot of non-english speakers on my server especiiiallly toward the night. I just type in a specific way where I know the auto-translate will pick it up. (i used to use translations for a job i did, almost every conversation was through translation LMAO)

[@mightymouse6132]

Not only that you should have to complete all secret dungeons before you can matchmake. So many people don't understand the mechanics of bosses in the dungeons and screw the whole team over. I ran deaths abyss for 5 hours one day with only 3 completions because people don't know the mechanics and don't listen. I'm now running temple of slaughter which is honestly easy because the boss has such low hp and no one even touches the matchmaking. Also make it where you can invite people when you are inside of the dungeon. The matchmaking is broken once you're inside. Trying to find one person inside a dungeon you could wait for 30 minutes. Then leave and go to the board and instantly find a team. Then there is the problem that the world bosses rewards are damage based so players choose not to be healers and tanks... so dungeons are constantly hoping for a healer to join the que. Its ridiculous why they set it up this way needing certain classes to complete bosses, but offer no benefit for the most needed classes aka tank/healer. Why would I play as a healer if I never earn contribution rewards on world bosses.

[@Equerd]

I've spent 40 min in dungeon with group hat did not eaven consider doing mechanic. I tried to help and explain mech, no o e listen so i left - no regrets. Penalty if you leave before reaching the boss or before wipe, after that no one supposed to be punish for waisting time with team that have no chance to success

[@Wumbology378]

I've been wanting to run Dungeons in Throne but it would be my first time healing and using a controller since I usually play MMOs with Keyboard and Mouse so I haven't been queuing especially with how some of the people in the community are lol.

[@Ecool27]

Just give ppl the option to bring their friends or guild mate to help finish the dungeon instead of having to wait 30-1 hour waiting for a tank

[@Ecool27]

Just realized the party board allows you to open the instance and bring people in your game instead of waiting 30 mins lol

[@StateOfChaos]

It's needed. Have healers rage quitting after 2 wipes because you have a DPS new to the mechanics or maybe just isn't the best player, as if carrying isn't an option. People are wildly unhinged when it comes to a having a little patience in dungeons.

[@yahusrevus]

I've lost count of the number of groups in T&L that start blaming on first pull mistake and calling for kicks. I've played WoW (including Classic), FFXIV, ESO, GW2, BDO and a few others and have never encountered a more toxic environment than T&L dungeons. Basically everything you said is true. Oh, and don't forget about the folks requiring a ~3000 combat power for one of the first level 50 dungeons (Death's Abyss) because they somehow believe that is a measure of skill. LOL

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yeah, not going to lie when I see 3K rooms I'm like you're trolling. 😂

[@Dylanel101]

I get what you mean and agree that 3000 combat power is a rather unreasonable, but honestly I see mainly 2600-2700 in the higher requirements rooms so 3000 would be simply for the people who want the dungeon done fast. Because even if the combat power doesnt always mean high skill, it often actually does, since those people took enough time to get to those numbers, which kinda means they had to know what they are doing and should have the game knowledge to perform better.

[@Dabubabyboi]

If they implement anything to punish people leaving they need to fix the other side of the spectrum as well. Force people to run the lower tier dungeons first so they get a hang of it, and force actually specs. I see alot of tanks/healers que up and not do their role. Or alot of people in tier 50 that dont want to learn mechanics. Just get carried

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

What makes you feel they haven't completed the previous dungeons? 🤔

[@Dabubabyboi]

@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 I've been doing the same thing you have. Just running dungeons for the fun and to teach people. I have ran 9 dungeons yesterday and 3 today, now small sample size for sure between everyone playing. But of all 12 games 2 had a full squad who knew their class and had done the dungeon previously. Alot of first timers, especially as the more casual player gets to 50

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

I myself am someone that always does blind runs in MMOs. Not for lack of wanting to learn, I just like the learning experience and the first time effect. I don't pay too much attention to how others use their classes and what not, so I wouldn't know much on that front. I'm simple, as long as you click buttons we're good. I personally don't feel that might not be something to punish a player for. Not being good or not knowing enough information is normal in my experience. I will say if someone is refusing to play the game or work with the team in any fashion there should definitely be some consequences.

[@Dabubabyboi]

@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 i don't think you should punish for not knowing. But forcing them to run a simpler version of a dungeon to get basic mechanics down and every tier higher adds new mechanics would help alleviate to a degree some people leaving. Cause if you run a level 50 or tier 2 dungeon you know the people in there have a base knowledge of the mechanics. As a dps if I queue temple of slaughter I have a 20-40 minute wait to also get put in lobbies to teach which sometimes isn't bad. But other times it's a 2 hr process to not get a drop, so feels a little unrewarded

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

@Dabubabyboi That's a rough one, at that point they'd be forcing players to play their game a specific way and no dev wants to restrict players. I'm more than positive though most players played through the early dungeons before the higher ones. (I'd hope👀)

[@xMrNight]

love your energy and attitude, subbed

[@Madcomplex]

We had a guy trolling just a few hours ago in our group for a cave of destruction. He was a healer who would only heal after one or two of us would die and then would just say his ability was recharging

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Oh dang, that's toxic. Is there a report feature yet? I tried looking for it a few weeks ago, not sure if there is one?

[@JL-gm8gy]

There is a report function you find it under the chracter card.​@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Oh! Thank you, I looked before and couldn't find it. I wonder why it wasn't there before. o.O

[@JL-gm8gy]

@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 however im not sure it works or if it's like the add friend function however i heard its working for people been reporting bots on my server. But not verified it

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yes, I've came across a few bots I wanted to report, I appreciate you let me know where it is exactly.

[@vbaldokaizen8748]

No, I know enough of team dynamics already to tell when a team is going nowhere. I would appreciate not getting jailed by these people, thanks.

[@123tamz]

I'd rather leave the dungeon than keep resetting the boss because most of the members keep dying

[@Timmahh85]

Went into a dungeon where player nr 6 never loaded in. Everybody went seperate ways pulling multiple mobs, so me with longbow/staff tried to assist and throw what little heals I could to help. At the first real boss, we could amass 3 people, which obviously weren’t enough and nobody read chat or tried to wait for each other to gather up and do a proper attempt. Needless to say, that group fell apart and I left. It was the first lvl 20 dungeon. Sadge.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Holy, that sounds like an awful experience. Hope you have no more of those. 👀

[@akaiYaMa9]

Im on the fence about giving penalties to leavers because ive noticed that leavers are often the worst players in the party and once theyre gone and replaced, somehow magically the party clears. Technically leaving the party before getting the chest is a penalty. Thats 30 mins of the leavers life wasted with no reward, that some other backfill player will get with no effort. I think if penalties are added then its likely that people will start to move away from partyfinder towards pre-made parties for fear of getting stuck in a 15 min dungeon for an hour with no way to leave. Now your new problem will be convincing people to allow you into their party which could take more than an hour.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

I think the only players a penalty would negatively affect are the players who leave consistently. If you think about it from the perspective of an average player, there really is no reason to leave a dungeon. The only ones who dislike their team or have a real-life thing to deal with. If you dislike your team, leave, queue up, and do it again. It's a domino effect to other players and if many players do the same thing it'll end up ruining the entire game. If you have a real life thing to do, by the time the lockout timer is done you'd have finished w/e it is you'd have to do and you wouldn't feel the penalty. I personally think it wouldn't do anything to the pool of matchmakers considering the penality is something that is in almost have matchmaking game that is team-related. FF14, WoW, Overwatch, League of Legends, etc. People still queue up without a team/premade. If anything though, I'd rather have matchmaking dip a bit in players than have the game itself dip in players duo to the poor experience.

[@akaiYaMa9]

@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 Although I can't speak to WoW, I can speak to FFXIV. I think that throne and liberty's difficulty level in dungeons feels closer to Criterian dungeons than it does to an Average/MSQ dungeon. Criterian does require premade parties for those dungeons. Personally I think the dungeon difficulty in Throne and Liberty is awesome and refreshing but I think for the average Joe its probably too much. You almost never experience leavers in FFXIV and thats mainly to do with the fact that the game is braindead easy. I agree with you though, its possible that maybe things don't turn out that way if penalties are given. I'm just thinking from a Destiny 2 dungeon or FFXIV criterian dungeon or savage raid perspective where you literally can not queue for those with matchmaker.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

I don't think they are harder per se, I think the main thing that stands out is the major amount of coordination from players in the early stages of the game. If you think about any streamline bosses from FF14 (the ones they HAVE to do to progress the story/expansion) you'll notice there are not many mechanics that require all players to understand or do their part. It's as simple as, "oh no dmg, heal it up healer"/"oh no, run away from that obv aoe dps"/"oh no, tank up for that obv big attack tank". Throne and Liberty has too many mechanics where one or two people can ruin the whole run, and most of those mechanics you'd have to figure out if weren't told or watched in a video. On top of that, there really is no clutching a dungeon unless you have REALLY high gear, and even then it's rough. However, in FF14, you can get by with someone not knowing a mechanic or someone not knowing where to be and why. Healers can carry, tanks can carry, (dps is a little sketch on the ability to carry, but i've seen it) TLDR: I wouldn't say Throne and Liberty is harder, just requires more coordination and motor skills from each individual player to complete the dungeon. The first boss of a game should not have a wipe mechanic LMAO. The goal of FF14's dungeons (the mandatory ones) is to tell a story, not push the limits of the player. Throne and Liberty has it reversed. It's to push the player. I think they should rework or just add more dungeons that are a bit more simplified. I know for a fact FF14 revised some of their dungeons for a similar reason. Mechanics were outdated or just too confusing for the player. To be fair, this game hasn't really been through any major updates so we have to see what they plan to do. (not sure if that was a true TLDR LMAO)

[@jimmie8101]

absolutely not. gone are the days where I spend 2hrs+ in a dungeon because people refuse to do a simple google search on mechanics. I could leave and have the same dungeon completed much quicker with a competent group.

[@Icanhasmovies]

The problem with a penalty is it would just turn into there would be no penalty for getting kicked - so the people who wanted "out" would start doing bad enough behaviors they would get kicked instead. I definitely think it sucks but I think the answer is to fix the matchmaking system so you get your party filled up again quicker - but that's as likely as is to happen as getting party members that won't just leave if they aren't being carried :) I'd also be fine with something that tracks that behavior - such as if you drop out of 3 in a row - you are now timed out for X time. However the coding behind that would be hard so I get why systems instead use player based reputation.

[@OdinMagnus]

I'm playing a tank, and for some reason I was getting a really bad rubberband effect. Usually only in dungeons, which makes it almost impossible to do the final boss and I had to leave on the boss =( I was upset by it. I think I fixed it now, I turned off nameplates on enemies and it seems to have fixed it, for now. But I do hate when people leave for no reason. Especially in the "earlier" dungeons. These are for gear, obviously it won't run 100% smooth each time. Some people might have lower dps, or the healer is undergeared. But a "timeout" effect I don't feel would do anything. I love rift and I still play it, it has the "deserter" thing, for pvp if you leave before it finishes. But that's for 30 min and that barely stops people from leaving. The dungeon one is 10 min. That's not even a deterrent. Maybe a "victory" meter or something that you have completed dungeons x% of the time and it uses your last y times so that you can get it back up after some time.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

That's an interesting thought. I know the model works in other MMOs, but I do know a lot of players that play this are not MMO players and this may be their first one. I feel they could go for a test run for a bit and see how it works, then go for another route should it not? Hmm...🤔

[@OdinMagnus]

@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 I mean for instance, as a tank i don't really do damage, which is fine in groups. But when I'm doing my dailies, I might want more damage to finish them quicker. So like in other MMOs it would be like a different spec. In wow my Paladin had a tank spec and a dps spec. Some raids needed 2 tanks for some bosses but for the other stuff I would switch to dps.

[@TukaTanuki]

Make it so you have to have SnS or Wand on to queue for their respective roles, then make it so you can't swap them off once you get in. Had a run while leveling where our healer wasn't really a healer, just another dps without wand. THEN penalties are fine.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Think my peeve is multiple takes queueing as DPS. I see that more often and I'm just like bruh. 👀

[@itsmrdeath1812]

I only leave if I feel like I'm the reason we are failing. If they add a penalty for leaving I'd just ask to be kicked.

[@gv3rtigo889]

💯 agree. My friend and I have limited time to play and this happens almost every time. Glad to hear others are having the same frustrations. And yes, the jump mechanics are so bad, it feels like an early 90s Nintendo game.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

LMAO, no you did not just say early 90s game. The actual disrespect. 😂 Also, yea. It's pretty nuts. I think leaving us ok, but having a player decide if it's worth the penalty I feel will make them wait longer before leaving. I'd love to see the clear rate for all dungeons, I'm assuming it's well below the expected average.

[@gv3rtigo889]

@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 have you done the mission where you have to jump across the right pattern of stone blocks in mid air?? You get caught on corners in an infinite jump animation loop, you get stuck on the edge of the block and can’t walk to the center leaving you with the only option to just fall and start over. And the roaring lion boss… having the cue to grapple but not being able to until the game deams you worthy. Yes, I believe early 90s is a close description 😂 thanks for the videos. Subbed and liked!

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

@gv3rtigo889 No, honestly thank you. That made my morning, that was the positivity and laugh I needed. 😂

[@JL-gm8gy]

Mayve im sitting on a rainbow but jacent had these issues as a healer in matchmaking but then again i explain each boss before we fight no matter if someone knows it or not.

[@filip5703]

even if the whole team leaves at the final boss, you can start matchmaking without leaving the dungeon

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yup, but often times it glitches out and doesn't work.

[@filip5703]

@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 true, when that happens i just close it and restart matchmaking and it works

[@revodare89]

I havent had any parties yet that were uncarryable with my mate. We had one where someone died and he got flamed really hard. So me and my mate decided to kick the toxic guy.. with 5% left on the boss. (we always make the party)

[@Vizarduchiha17]

It should have a penalty for players that don't max out their blues that they get for free

[@Dylanel101]

I dont think there should be a leaver penalty as the dungeons are right now, unless they change the dungeon dynamics drastically, you would constantly get stuck in a cage with animals wasting your time. Iam all for explaining the mechanics to the people if they dont understand (even tho there are very short and good videos like yours with explanations) and I can understand if we wipe like 3 times since someone simply made a mistake, and I wish I was making it up, but ALOT of people just dont listen, cant speak English (EU servers) or (as I was told by the people in question) they play on a PS and cant be bothered to open the chat or read it, since it appearently takes them too much time, which I dont really understand. I also feel some people just refuse to do the mechanics just to spite the rest of the team, since we tell them what to do, they respond "ok" and then just suicide like they didnt know any better. And since these people like to come in groups I dont really wanna get punished for leaving the dungeon and this happens like 3/10 times on 2000+ gs and like 7/10 on 1600 gs. Ty for whoever read this rant essay

[@joss6663]

I just left my first arena game EVER due to an urgent call. And i got 1 hour penalty ?!?!?!!? what the fuck

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

I'm guessing it's because of pvp, that's way more serious than pve I'd think. 🤔

[@koishi08]

maybe pay up the coin at the very start

[@gruenjapfaelzer9628]

But sometimes you are stuck on the boss for awhile. There should be a penalty but there shouldnt be a penalty if you wipe after a certain amount of times.

[@ryandugan9176]

No it should not. The number of times I've had incompetent parties troll in dungeons is the reason I leave them if players refuse to learn mechanics and ask for clarification.

[@ryandugan9176]

Mind you I'll give the final boss 3 tries offering to teach the mechanics before and after each and if I get no response I leave.

[@erikwilson1493]

100% literally to everything you just said.

[@Yobama007]

How about instead of penalties we use incentives. 🙄 Rewards are better motivation than punishment.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Need both to keep balance. Good and Evil go hand and hand. 🙌

[@edu5250]

make quitters restrict to match only another quitters in their next queue

[@dictatorduckula]

no it doesnt have to add penalty for leaving dungeons. because most of the players are not familiar with mechanics and ruining everyone's runs. yesterday i hit a group that nobody wanted to learn and they wanted to discover their games and give us the torment we do not want. after 2 weeks of release still some ppl cant understand the layout. so no it doesnt need to have a penalty for leaving dungeons for now. but later idk. maybe ppl learn. and also i forgot to mention the bot parties.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

I feel like having a party not know the mechanics is a norma thing l, I feel when matchmaking that's something the player is willing to queue into. Most games will give you team mates that don't know much or are below skill level, I don't think that means players should be able to leave. I am someone who likes to do blind runthroughs because I like experiencing the dungeon for the first time through my eyes, not someone else's I think it's ok to leave once you try the boss fight a few times and see no improvement, but I noticed most players who leave don't even want to try. They will just up and leave and ruin 5 other player's games. (which is why using the party board is better, you can pick your own team)

[@dictatorduckula]

@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 yeah its fine to experience for the first time. but i cant keep up with dying for 100 times. some ppl like exp sure its fine. but if you cant learn. go watch a youtube vid. otherwise i m out. its been like 15-20 days and if you dont know the mechanics you should go watch youtube or leave the game. when you are 3k gear and does not know how to move in a mechanic. its normal for me to leave. p2w elements are making mmo players to leave because a dumb cash for play idiot bought some serious progression and doesnt know how character rotation works.

[@LittlePankek]

How about them fools who queue up as tank or healer but are dps? There should definitely be a in-progress thing though. I'd never turn down an easy quick last boss hop in, but usually a person left for a specific reason (and that reason is usually a trap party lol, let's be honest).

[@JohannSiemens85]

I understand your point, but then it should also have a penalty for people just being idiots and MAKE people leave. This game is designed around people actually having the skill to finish a dungeon, because it's not as braindead as other games, where you can just yolo your way through it (maybe with good gear, ok). So if you punish people for not wanting to waste their time with people who aren't willing to learn anything about the dungeon beforehand and even "refuse" to do better after your explained everything and tried it 5 more times, then you should also have a punishsystem for people who suck. That's just fair. And now we get into very very muddy water of abusing such systems. So my point is, i understand where you are coming from, but if we start punishing something, we should punish a lot more than what people want to be punished, because there is always another side of the medal, which we should also look into.

[@DanielSilva-4997jj]

I agree with you about it needing to be penalized, but I disagree with the how. I would make it so you need to justify you leaving the dungeon and other players reporting people that leave earlier. If the player gets reported, the player should be penalized but allowed to contest the panalitie. Picture this: you are playing the dungeon, it took longer than you expected because the other players didn't know what they were doing and now you are running late to... I don't know, taking your dog to the veterinary. Should you be penalized for having to leave in this situation? I don't think so and this kind of thing might happen. This is why it should be the players reporting it, instead of automatically applying the penalty for leaving, cause you can always talk with the other players and explain you had something else going on and justify your need to leave. Edit: and also make the justification for leaving a mandatory thing, so even if you close the game and open it later, a box asking for what happened should stop you from just keep playing as if nothing happened.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Well, that's what the lockout timer is for. It's not to punish players leaving every now and then, it's to punish players who leave and try to re-queue instantly. (MOST games have a timer of some sort like this). I think there might be confusion about a penalty versus a punishment. They are not the same thing. A punishment is like...losing the account or being suspended. A penalty is like a timeout. If you had to take care of something in real life, being timed out for 30 minutes of queue would have been passed by the time you got back. If you have a guild thing to do or maybe a friend wants to play with you, the timer should be gone by the time you queue again. FF14 lets you leave as much as you want, you'll get a timer but your account will never be flagged for leaving.

[@SirKarlose]

yeah im not waiting around in a dungeon for others to learn the mechanics blind, im out and on to the next group who is hopefully more competent than the last

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

But using matchmaking means you're willing to get put into that situation. 👀

[@artz991]

Bro I just got finish talking about this lol I don't get why do people queue up with randoms knowing that it's not gonna go perfect lol then gonna leave and queue up again to go right back to experiencing the same thing again lmao think about how stupid that sounds.

[@seabhacgra517]

There is far too much toxicity in this game so soon after it released outside of Korea. People just expect you should already know the mechanics because the game has been out in Korea for a few years already, which is ridiculous. That's why I try to run dungeons with friends and learn them before I ever consider queueing for PUG groups. I love the game, I just hate how the PvP and everything else is already starting to feel like New World Lord of the Flies toxic BS already. Just chill and have fun! leave the salty, sweaty BS for the FPS games and enjoy!

[@iconuchiha16]

I played with 2 guild members in death abyss one of the members had done it so i was explaining both before and during the dungeon the one member i think also watched 2 videos on the dungeon yet it was wipe after wipe in both the second and third boss we had to queue back up three times eventually they left and had to queue up a 4th time at the last boss. Me and the new group beat it first try the guild member who was struggling couldn't believe it so i had to requeue with especially 12 people last night and it took i wanna say a hour or two to beat the boss if we count all the failed attempts

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yea, I feel thats the default time for some dungeons x.x

[@iconuchiha16]

​@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 also is there a reason you don't go over the other two bosses in your simplified dungeon videos i know they are supposed to be simplified guides i was just wondering why they purely go over the last boss only

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

I thought about adding them, but I decided not to due to the fact usually it's kind of a one-sentence explained mechanic or can be carried through. It also saved time. I was thinking of maybe revisiting them, but in a force of like...the fasted route to the boss type video. Something like that maybe. 🤔

[@iconuchiha16]

@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 ah that's fair yeah the guild member with me was like i can't it's complicated it's so much going on and i tried explaining everything he's saying i know but either he wasn't listening or just not understanding

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yea, no worries. You're not the only one that asked and for the same reasons hah. I'm sorry I failed you all!😭

[@strawhat_cotafitness1260]

No because if I have to be punished for having a job because we've been fighting a boss for an hour that we almost killed the first try but now it's time for me to go to work (did this with my guild they already knew if it took too long I was leaving) ill delete or never play dungeons again if im punished for leaving

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

I think you may be confusing penalty with punishment.

[@erikdevos8482]

First time leaving 30 min and dubbele every time in that day and if you get above a sertain time lock out like 5 times you get locked out from dungeons for a month.and thé reason for thé harch punichment is coss it's not always thé good players that leave after 2 or 3 wipes i had a few that wanted to get Carreyd leave after dieing first every time and thé same happend when i got matched with them again in thé saim day or thé next day

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Oh wow, that's unlucky. 😱

[@danteinferno9762]

Yooooo.... okay im new... got the first dungeon someone partied up with me. I died 😅 but it teleported me to the tower area. I didnt know how to get BACK to the party. So i RAN back tried to get back but the door was closed. So now im stuck outside ....system didnt tell me how to get BACK to my party. I LEFT because i thought it would be unfair for me to benefit off of it if they cleared it. 😢 If someone can tell me how you jump back into the area where your party is at or something let me know thanks.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Same place you click party matchmaking when selecting bosses. A the bottom there is a big square that says enter. I think sometimes it'll glitch and you can't go back, but that'd be how to do it. Also, that has never happened to me. o_o

[@Dylanel101]

@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 I would assume he means Sylleas Abyss which closes at night and fits the description. Even if its an open world dungeon and off topic

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Makes more sense. Since it was a boss video assumed it was the dungeon itself. 😂

[@danteinferno9762]

@Dylanel101 correct! door that closes at night. Sorry I wasn't more specific. But I died and the option was to teleport to the over look camp. Couldn't figure out how to get back to party. But thanks for the help I'll look for the options mentioned.

[@Dylanel101]

@@danteinferno9762 I apologize if the end sounded a bit negative, since that wasnt my intention, its an understandable switch up with the dungeons. Also since you confirmed my suspicion ill just mention, that you cant return to your party in that case. The door stays closed until the night ends so you either have to wait it out or leave the group and go to a different dungeon that doesnt close at night. At night it pretty much turns into a culling game so if a guild wipes an entire floor, they can freely occupy it until the sun comes up.

[@emeukal7683]

There should be a penalty for ppl jpin know mechanics and then fuck Up. I mean, there is. When they wasted group time and finally by chance didn't fail enough to wipe there's that sweet 10% boss HP kick.

[@youngsenji4324]

I left a party like 2 days ago we were playing butcher's canyon and I play as a dps class I'm still fairly new to this dung boss this person that's the leader of the party wanted us to follow his every movement to pass the sheep part but what confuse me is that I see 3 people can pass the sheep between each other and still make it to circle soo I didn't follow them and then he/she goes and type in chat my character name and says what are you doing are u trolling me??. he/she was like mess up again I'm going to kick you and to be fair I did mess up like 3 times but there was others that was messing up as well so now I'm like okay I might as well leave if this person threatening to kick me, so I left the party since the person was so angry at me so I'm saying this because people are taking this game way to serious

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yea, I've noticed that's a running theme. I also do agree that some take it a bit too seriously. I feel you there 100%.

[@MrTrozo12]

yeah but some players tha apply as tank or healers to just do dps but ask you as staff/wand user mostly dps build to be a healer wtf

[@Samie_Ikigai]

While i agree with this i also think this doesnt quite work tbh. There have been so many times where i would spend over an hour on the last boss alone. I dont want to stay in a last bossfight for over an hour when i have other things i could be doing. I think thats a totally fair thing too. So IMO there should be a penalty if you leave after the first x amounts of wipes on the boss. If you leave before that you get a penality. There should be a disband option to come with that. If everyone wants to give up they should be able to without someone taking a penalty. Especially considering theres literal bots in dungeons now too even the system i proposed wouldnt work. Youll notice the players are bots beforehand and want to leave but youll be locked out.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yea, I was saying that in the video. I think there should definitely be a grace period for someone who plays. If something lasts too long or you've tried a bit and you know it'll last long there should be something in place. However, you're one of those players (at least it seems like), that'll leave every now and then, not back to back. Penalties are usually for the players who leave and queue repeatedly.

[@WestOzMT]

Deserter is a World of Warcraft thing 20 min cooldown.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yea, I didn't know FF14 and WoW shared that same system. That makes me more confident they will some kind of system for this game as well.

[@KawałowaEkipa]

The game should teach us the mechanics during boss fights so less ppl would leave cos at this moment most ppl who enter dungeons have no clue what they doing thats why they leave and I know there are 100's of videos on each boss but ppl are to lazy to even watch them, they just think oh ok other folks probably know how it works so i dont have to know lol

[@VolkanKucukemre]

Give bonuses to nice people. Each person can give another person a like. Some sort of reward is attached to number of likes but not something crazy, because people will abuse the f* out of it with fake accounts. Still, one number going up would be enough for people to try to be a little bit nicer...

[@Maru4992]

Would love and ff14 style dungeon roulette

[@Dre_Santi]

The insta-drop on wipe is infuriating lol Happens on 14 all the time too. 🙄

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

I can honestly say, I've never run a dungeon in FF14 and had someone leave on the first wipe, only extremes (which kinda makes sense). That's crazy, which dungeons was it?

[@Dre_Santi]

@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 Mostly I'll pull too much trash for the healer to keep up, and they rage quit lol. 😁

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

LMAO! Respect.

[@frostymcnuggets8504]

The party board is super toxic

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

LMAO, is it? Why? 😂

[@frostymcnuggets8504]

@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 the same reason they leave the dungeons lol posts like "PRO team 10 minute runs KNOW THE MECHS!!!", "need a tank and healer-but only if your 2600+"...I'm thinking so I can't do it even tho I know the "MECHS" because I'm only 2100? Trying to do certain dungeons as a solo player is kind of a nightmare.

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yooo, I totally forgot about those type of rooms and titles.😂 100% see your point.

[@Anto0fficiaI]

1 hour of time out for leaving

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Holy, one hour? LMAO, now *that* is a long time. 😂

[@therealexpletive]

less popular servers have been nothing but love. mess up? its cool. lets get it agian.. ive had nothing but good experiences.

[@adrielmason4596]

Hey I heard stampede racing Royale got new tracks

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yeah, saw they did a crossover with Dave the diver too.

[@adrielmason4596]

@@poppinoftenwithlofton6036 You should do a gameplay video of that

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

You're not wrong. I might have to sometime.

[@mplinkmplink]

FF14 system is super cool :) but TnL toxicity is huge vote for that

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

LMAO. 😂

[@ghosto50]

The classic dungon que lockout if u leave (30 min) like in wow would be good and if u backfill bonus mat drops or a priority que next dungeon

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

Yes! I'm likin how your thinkin. That's a really good direction.

[@Dabubabyboi]

Not at all, 30 min lockout is wild. 😂😂😂

[@koishi08]

Most definitely... i waited for que... then guys started to leave... wtf... am thinking if they do this as an exploit ... in pso2ngs you can report this behaviour

[@poppinoftenwithlofton6036]

I think players also may not think of the ramifications. If you leave 1. You take longer to complete a dungeon due to queue time and running a whole dungeon again. (possibly leaving that one) 2. The players that may need the help to learn the mechanics never get the help and end up in another game where people leave. It's kind of a paradox cycle. I leave cause no one knows the mechanics or has a hard time, but because I leave no one will know the mechanics or have their time made easier. 👀

[@hexnut_furry]

its ok as it is

[@xaro9873]

Join a guild..

[@SOWICKEDIMWUZIE]

Just re que