Penn Jillette: The year that broke America's illusions | Big Think Edge

Penn Jillette: The Year That Broke Our Illusions
Moderated by Victoria Montgomery-Brown, co-founder and CEO of Big Think
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The year 2020 will go down in history as one that shook our inner and outer worlds.
In this Big Think Live session, magician, author, and cultural critic Penn Jillette will discuss the giant upheavals of 2020 through the lens of what he knows best: illusions. Which social, personal, and governmental illusions have been shattered this year, and how (and what) should we rebuild? Jillette, one half the world’s most famous magic duo with Teller, will also give tips on how to foster long-term business partnerships and sustain creativity, and how he maintains a clear, rational mind in the noisiest era to date.
In the mid ’80s, magician Penn Jillette and his touring partner, Teller, went from playing the tiki lounges at various Ramada Inns to being one of the most popular, big budget, death defying, nightclub acts in the country. After killing it in movies and SNL appearances, the duo went on to have their own Showtime series where they attempted to debunk everything from male enhancement pills to UFO sightings. Penn has independently produced the stand up comedy tribute film, The Aristocrats, and hosted a successful podcast with Ace Broadcasting, Penn’s Sunday School. Penn & Teller: Fool Us, a current CW series, began its first season in London and now it has just begun its seventh, under the dazzling lights of Las Vegas.
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PENN JILLETTE:
Penn Jillette is a cultural phenomenon as a solo personality and as half of the world-famous Emmy Award­-winning magic duo Penn & Teller. His solo exposure is enormous: from Howard Stern to Glenn Beck to the Op-Ed pages of The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and the Los Angeles Times. He has appeared on Dancing with the Stars, MTV Cribs, and Chelsea Lately and hosted the NBC game show Identity. As part of Penn & Teller, he has appeared more than twenty times on David Letterman, as well as on several other TV shows, from The Simpsons and Friends to Top Chef and The View. He co-hosts the controversial series Penn & Teller: Bullshit!, which has been nominated for sixteen Emmy Awards. He is currently co host of the Discovery Channel's Penn & Teller Tell a Lie and the author of God, No! and Presto!
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[@bigthink]

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[@SurajSinghTomarArya]

Guys please have a look at Jo Jorgensen. She's the Libertarian candidate for the 2020 elections.

[@loveabuttersquash]

Tackle? You mean propagandize for mass health damage? Why don't you start mentinoing CDC statistics about the inflation of COVID numbers so you can cause mass hysteria in your war on the US.

[@kikeheebchinkjigaboo6631]

Penn is a communist

[@ransakreject5221]

I hope penn is now open minded enough to admit he was wrong on Covid

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@lucysalinas8131]

Hello Mr. Penn, I am writing from Mexico, I remember your program on FX Bullshit! with great esteem, I kept awake to watch it and I loved it, especially the episode of Mother T that I found on the internet, you and Mr. Teller were ahead of the time and your Comedy is still current and necessary, Im a fan, I sent you an affectionate greeting wishing that you and your family are safe an well.

[@PhilT81]

Yes, I think of that episode whenever anyone uses Mother Theresa as the benchmark for an example of a really good person - or the best/kindest person ever. I always tell them how awful she was.

[@spec24]

That was back when he was still a critical thinker.

[@Void7.4.14]

Indeed. I'm actually rewatching it now for the first time in quite a few years. It's wild cause I remember thinkin back when it came out and during a later rewatch agreeing with it. But now I'm seeing the flaws in some of the "experts" and biases and all that. But what I really respect about em is his willingness to change even if I don't necessarily agree with his conclusion.

[@TheMattMercy]

@@spec24 Being a critical thinker means being open and willing to change. He's going through a lot of the trajectory I started going through over the past decade, and accelerated in 2016. It's funny, because I'm a Centrist-Maxist that leans toward Democratic Socialism, but around 50:00 he starts to sound liked an Anarcho-Communist or Orthodox Marxist. It's funny because in the next section he says he's always idolized/idolizes Bob Dylan. I'd love to see him have a conversation with Richard Wolff.

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@reinforcedpenisstem]

I love Penn. I don't agree with everything he says but I like how he's an independent thinker. Also, he's not a snob.

[@timothybell5698]

He's an incredible human, no doubt about it. If there's any evidence you can pretty much be anyone you want in America, it's Penn Gillette, the carny philosopher.

[@PhilT81]

Yeah, I don’t believe he’s a libertarian deep down. He’s much too nice and much too smart. He got in to it when he was young and associated it with being socially liberal.

[@johnshogskins4443]

"ANYONE WHO BELIEVES IN NOSTRADAMUS AND THINKS 9/11 WAS IN THOSE BOOKS, NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT UP TO TRIAL. WHERE WERE THEY ON 9/10? I DON'T CARE ABOUT 9/11. BECAUSE REMEMBER IT WAS AIR PLANE'S, WHICH MEANS IF YOU KNEW ON 9/10, YOU COULD STOP IT. IF I HAD A BOOK IN MY POSSESSION THAT HAD ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN ON 9/11 AND I DIDN'T GIVE THAT INFORMATION OVER TO PEOPLE WHO COULD STOP IT, I DON'T THINK YOU'VE HAVE ANY MORE DIRECT TEXTBOOK DEFINITION OF EVIL." - Penn Jillette

[@johnshogskins4443]

@@timothybell5698 "ANYONE WHO BELIEVES IN NOSTRADAMUS AND THINKS 9/11 WAS IN THOSE BOOKS, NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT UP TO TRIAL. WHERE WERE THEY ON 9/10? I DON'T CARE ABOUT 9/11. BECAUSE REMEMBER IT WAS AIR PLANE'S, WHICH MEANS IF YOU KNEW ON 9/10, YOU COULD STOP IT. IF I HAD A BOOK IN MY POSSESSION THAT HAD ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN ON 9/11 AND I DIDN'T GIVE THAT INFORMATION OVER TO PEOPLE WHO COULD STOP IT, I DON'T THINK YOU'VE HAVE ANY MORE DIRECT TEXTBOOK DEFINITION OF EVIL." - Penn Jillette

[@electrictroy2010]

Libertarian is classically liberal (like Thomas Jefferson). Live and let live, with minimal government to interfere with your life

[@skyj84]

I agree 100% Penn! It is OUR right to put ourselves at risk! It is NOT our right to put others at risk! Putting other people at risk impedes on the rights of those other people to live, stay healthy, etc… I never believed in meditation, but I started doing it to help with my insomnia. Now I listen to guided sleep meditation videos and it helps me sleep better. Lifting hurts my body, because I have arthritis, but walking feels great. I tried going vegan. I still drink mostly water. I started eating meat and dairy again though after 8 months. I wish I had the disciple you do to stay away from meat and dairy permanently. Listening to you inspires me to try again. PUBLIC schools are for everyone. There are way too many different faiths (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc) plus nonbelievers. Atheists and other faiths should not be forced to learn Christianity. If it’s important that their children learn about Christianity in school, there are Christian schools in every town. I am also atheist and I don’t want other peoples beliefs pushed on my children, just like they wouldn’t want me to push atheism on their children. We have family and friends of all beliefs. Public school is for everyone though, period. I love your books Penn. God No & Everyday is an Atheist Holiday are my favorites. Definitely not a failed author/writer. I also enjoyed your pennpoint videos on KZbin. You always made me laugh in those videos and you made me laugh on Bullshit, which leads me to believe you’re not a failed clown. I actually hope you do them again. Being successful doesn’t mean you cannot feel. It’s okay for you to complain and talk about how you feel. Being able to discuss how we feel is a big part of self care, which is important. You are loved Penn. Please take care of yourself. ✌️❤️

[@blancaroca8786]

Driving your car puts other people at risk... life is always a balance and you need to realize it’s a difficult question especially when pharma funds the universities and do what they can to make profit... in fact they quickly believe their science.. especially when they see profit. Even best science can sometimes fail.. nuclear engineers thought their reactors were impossible to fail. You guys need to be a little more skeptical...Science it isn’t infallible especially early on.. it used to take years and years to develop and clinical trials for vaccines and suddenly it gets reduced to months. The corporations telling politicians to shut down open debate. Even the obvious connection with wuhan lab we were not even allowed to debate. Censorship is power

[@Libertyjack1]

How can anyone help but to like a guy like this? I'm not a libertarian, at least not in the sense that Penn is, but I so admire his selfless honesty and thoughtfulness on so many matters. It's a pleasure listening to him.

[@PhilT81]

I think he got in to that when he was very young and impressionable and he associated it with being socially liberal. I think in his heart he knows that he’s not really a libertarian - he’s much too smart, thoughtful and nice. I’m sure he doesn’t really think that vulnerable members of society should have to just hope that people show them charity - at best that’s inconsistent. People need a safety net. If someone is born with a medical condition that renders them unable to provide for themselves, they shouldn’t just have to hope that the right charity provides for their needs. So many people are libertarian up until the point that they actively need the help of a government service. Of course, everyone uses shared infrastructure all of the time. Any system taken too far is stupid. I’d love for communism to work but it’s just against human nature - we need incentives, so some degree of capitalism is necessary.

[@Libertyjack1]

@@PhilT81 I think that living in a functional society is now, and always was, a mixed economy. The State has taken some of the roles once provided by the Church, that's all. Society, the corporate culture and the work requirements are now changing in a way not seen since the start of the Industrial Revolution, which is why everyone is getting into political knots, but the Government needs to assert itself as an agent of popular representation, to keep corporate barons from monopolizing the economy and dictating the terms of everyones' life. If not, we may as well return to the age where kings had Devine rights.

[@suruchisinha158]

@@PhilT81 The state itself causes poverty by creating monopolies, bailouts, IP laws, etc.

[@oronk60]

@@PhilT81 You must be careful with how much power you give the government. Sure you get the feeling of security and stability, maybe even a false sense of equality. But you trade off individual freedom and independence. You do not want a government going Orwellian, then you get hell. Like everything it is a balance we need to achieve. A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have.

[@opaljk4835]

Dante Palermo that is a compelling idea, but I think the government can free us from things instead of just give us freedom to do things (healthcare, housing. Etc etc) but it has to be a better system than we have that includes a better and more legitimate form of accountability

[@OmniphonProductions]

After 19 years as a Police/Fire/EMS Dispatcher, I've come to the conclusion that government exists primarily because, in any given population, there will always be a percentage who refuses to do the right thing voluntarily...even when it's easy. I'm not a fan of government mandates, but...well...the right to swing your Rugged Individualism ends where others' lives are endangered. I love that Penn compared NOT wearing a mask to drunk driving, because (in the context of my above statements) BOTH show a willful disregard for the safety of others...which is why I have used exactly that example many times. I also love his idea of supporting one's right to be self-destructive...but not wanting to advocate it. Yet another thing to love from Penn is the observation, "When I hear myself complain, I find myself being sickened." I have always tried to impart such a sense of _perspective_ with my children...that there are a billion people in this world who would gladly trade their _best_ day for my _worst._ P.S. Boy, was he ever wrong about the reduction in hate-driven politics by November! Shameful and heartbreaking. Even after bloodshed at the Capitol, there are ideologues defending their hateful and demonstrably destructive politics. Then again, "thanks" to that tragic event, there are many in the RNC who have finally said, "Enough is enough!" so maybe we _will_ FINALLY see greater unity and a return to cooperative compromise in DC, rather than adversarial division. Here's hopin'!

[@timothybell5698]

"Until you have freedom, my freedom means nothing." Reminds me of this ol' chestnut: "So long as there is a lower class, I am in it, So long as there is a criminal element, I am of it, So long as there is a soul in prison, I am not free."

[@q.barclay8562]

Eugene V. Debs 🙂👏👏👏👏

[@opaljk4835]

I’ve listened to a lot of Penn. this is sobering for me, even as someone who already believed what he’s saying. It’s rough, as a people, to think about how much we failed ourselves in a lot of ways.

[@christinharmon7249]

I like that he is able to say, I changed my view because I seen evidence and realized I see it differently now. Neato

[@electrictroy2010]

PENN was very disillusioned by Trump because he thought Trump was truly dumb. Penn thought the president should lead by example & wear a mask on tv ,

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@SHARON.I]

@@electrictroy2010 here? Where?

[@TheWeepingDalek]

Someone in a back seat not wearing a seat belt can actually cause great harm to the people in the front in the event of an accident

[@spec24]

Then it's the responsibility of the person driving to make sure they're wearing their seatbelts

[@TheWeepingDalek]

@@spec24 only if they are a child or mentally disabled in back. Otherwise it's a adults job to make sure they are secure

[@spec24]

@@TheWeepingDalek WTF? It is the responsibility of the person driving if they are worried that they are not safe because the person in the back isn't buckled. It doesn't fucking matter if they are a child or mentally disabled or anything. I don't even know what point your comment is making? It is NOT the person driving's responsibility to make sure the people in the back are buckled up if they are afraid that the people in the back will cause them harm "only if they are a child or mentally disabled"???? What kind of stupid logic is that? But don't worry, two other retards liked your comment. Here is your idiotic comment worded with what I said: "It's the responsibility of the person driving to make sure they're (the people in the back) wearing their seatbelts only if they (the people in the back) are a child or mentally disabled in back. Otherwise it's a adults job to make sure they are secure." In other words, you just fucking repeated what I said. You literally said it is their (the person driving's responsibility) to make sure people who are children or disabled as well as everybody else are/is buckled. Holy crap.

[@HidekiShinichi]

As a driver you have a right to not start vehicle if you are unhappy with what the passengers do, and as a passenger if you are unhappy with what driver/passengers do you can just dont enter the car/leave.

[@tommystrizzle5265]

@@spec24 no you are wrong. Just like most authoritarian points-of-view

[@PaintedBB]

It was great to hear Penn talk about veganism. Regarding doing a plant based diet and then transitioning to vegan morals: it's because we stop having to be defensive of our meals and wanting to find excuses for hurting animals for taste.

[@Alaninbroomfield]

I'm not discounting what you're saying, but do you have to say about a pack of wolves that eats deer alive, or a pride of lions that tear a fetus out of wild boar and eat it alive while its still screaming as a fetus? Is there anything wrong with that? No? Why not? "Because that's nature"? I would argue that HEALTH reasons are a better argument to avoid animal products, especially factory-farmed animals fed antibiotics, unnatural diets, growth hormones, etc.

[@PaintedBB]

@@Alaninbroomfield @Alan M good questions, thanks for asking. The vegan perspective is that we are humans and can make moral choices, something lions and other animals can't do. We don't have to create genetically deformed animals, confine them in conditions that cause them suffering and spread diseases, and then kill them and eat them, when every health organisation in advise that vegan diets are healthy at any stage of our lives. Most people agree that animal abuse is wrong and are shocked when shown the industry standard abuse that happens to farmed animals. Vegan ideals already line up with our moral ideals. More and more people are becoming vegan because they don't want to support something inherently cruel, so I think morals are a good angle, especially because veganism is specifically about making life better animals, who are overlooked in every society.

[@alexflenner3778]

@Vincent M. Great argument man!

[@kikeheebchinkjigaboo6631]

Oh another silly communist

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@georgeplunkitt5565]

I’d love to see more videos of his bass playing.

[@conorlynch2879]

@thevso He does this every show

[@anthonygibson660]

" I try to think of myself as one or a billion, nowhere in between"

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@sinkler123]

what a wonderful talk, very insightful and relatable to me. somehow, except for being a magician I seem to share every world view presented here by Penn. feels like i found my soul mate.

[@spec24]

That must be because the two of you think you know what the fuck you're talking about when you don't.

[@michaelsalisbury1477]

Racism is !! America!!!

[@michaelsalisbury1477]

@@spec24 But you do? Credentials please?!!!

[@michaelsalisbury1477]

@@spec24 b Death 24 But you do ???credentials please?

[@michaelsalisbury1477]

@@spec24 Death 24 but you do? Credentials please?!

[@elinope4745]

I wear a mask only to calm other people's fears. I think the danger of the virus has been overblown, but I don't expect you to share my opinions, and I don't think you should have to worry because I believe something that you don't believe that could directly effect you. When you see me wearing a mask, understand that I did it for you, I didn't do it for me. I did it for courtesy of you, please be courteous towards me as well.

[@shibosuru]

Ditto

[@robotpanda77]

penn loves to tell the story about how much he and teller don't like each other. lol

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@blessedandbiwithahintofmagic]

Penn Jilette has so much respect from me - Bullshit! helped me realize the horrors of circumcision, his rationalism just hits so well, my libertatian ideals were built in part by him, I don't drink or do drugs namely because of him, views that we need to bring in refugees in because it's the right thing to do - that history will condemn us if we do not help Syrian refugees, that Islamaphobia is such an inaccurate term - a religion, it's the fear and hatred of Muslims we need to condemn and stop. For him to finally take the step and consider himself both having a plant-based diet and finally making the jump to being a vegan for moral reasons makes me respect him to extreme degrees. I really loved Bullshit! as a teenager, that informed a lotta my viewpoint, in part it even informed my anti-vegatarianism I had for years. I eventually did find myself to changing, finding that so manu animals do deserve their lives, and found my way into veganism a half-decade before Penn - so happy to hear he's finally here with us ^&^

[@krshrv]

thanks for this. i have a whole new respect for this guy, who i already admired.

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@ibradul]

was really nice to listen to, actually ended up listening to the whole thing without realizing

[@hastypete2]

Same

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@rtd1791]

I sincerely hope one of the illusions that goes away is our collective confusion about cooperation. One of the reasons humans have been as successful as we have is our marvelous almost preternatural ability to cooperate with each other. Of all the primates on earth right now, we are the ones who live in the largest groups, because we actually have a wonderful ability to get along. I know right now it does not feel like we can cooperate with each other. We can and in fact most of us are right now. I wouldn’t be able to post this comment if their weren’t humans all over the world performing their jobs and keeping civilization running. Think about how much faith you place in your fellow humans to perform their work competently just by getting in a car and driving down the road. It really is inspiring thinking about just how many people that involves and how relatively great all those people have to be for traffic systems to work at all. And that’s just one part of life.

[@beesplaining1882]

I agree that cooperation is everywhere all the time but the confusion about it won't just go away. Why not? Because it doesn't get people's attention, get clicks and sell advertising or engage fear. Businesses, politicians and the media prefer to use competition and conflict to further their interests.

[@denwhitcomb1219]

Perhaps we don't cooperate enough because we are manipulated into age old us against them categories as a form of control. The illusion is that we don't recognize it and how dependent on each other we are.

[@crystalbennett8012]

@@carelessissue3215 👁 your words 🙏

[@danwray5626]

Love that driving drunk analogy. Wearing a mask is an act of brotherly love. As if that matters to some people.

[@easygoing7500]

@Vincent M. Yes they work and your the clown

[@Station_AI]

@Vincent M. Show the proof then, I have yet to see it

[@ttww1590]

@Vincent M. Drop your pants. burn your underwear,and join the revolution (or is it be free of the revolution?)

[@MrMan-ko5fw]

@Fast Fingers That must be why Japan did so well at keeping deaths down, because they didn't wea- oh wait

[@rikuown]

Using the government to force people to wear them doesn't actually have an effect (as proven by studies) and is also a clear slippery slope which is why in South Australia right now they're doing an app where people will be tracked and randomly forced to send pictures of their face to the police.

[@garycpriestley]

Best interview I've seen of him yet

[@spec24]

"I agree with him now... best interview yet."

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@jensbang7329]

Penn...your awesome....love your thinking ♥️😎

[@michaelsalisbury1477]

He's baJens Bangyou mean you're awesome !!

[@michaelsalisbury1477]

The English language is spoken in the US and grammar counts!!!!

[@ddpwe5269]

Great video with Penn! It's awesome you've lost a lot of weight and kept it off(it's all about being in a deficit without starving yourself with too much calorie dense food)! Especially, love the fact that you went ahead and actually got in to weights(calisthenics works as well). Even a great trainer at that, getting you to go to failure(HARDER THAN LAST TIME!) as well! Although, it's a myth that you can't build muscle and lose weight at the same time. Plenty of people do it all the time. In fact, you WANT to be doing some form of resistance training during the entire process so you at least KEEP what you had, even if you don't put it on. Otherwise, your body will eat away at the muscle to feed itself when you're in a deficit. The faster you lose weight, the faster your body eats at your muscle for energy. When you consume enough calories and with the right selection of legumes/pulses added in, you should be getting more than enough protein to build muscle. I think you're right about this being 'practice' for the next one. Just like when the first SARS hit in 2003; a huge majority of the eastern countries have been prepared since then for this. So far, we're failing, we have too many uneducated people thinking they live in a different society than every one else.

[@PhilT81]

America and UK have two of the worst records with the pandemic - and both had everything they needed to be prepared but had leaders that decided to get rid of them! I don’t know how anyone supports Trump at this point.

[@ddpwe5269]

@@PhilT81 This is true, however don't give yourself. The people are as much to blame as the people at the top. There are WAAAAAY too many people who don't believe in science. Sure, the people at the top MIGHT help that, but ultimately, people are just uneducated. Would would NOT be where we are today if it was not for science, plain and simple. To turn your nose up at that just goes to show your lack of intelligence toward people WITH the intelligence. So you're saying, just because our leaders are idiots, everyone else has to be? Nope. Why? Because even people on the left don't want to wear masks, mind you at a smaller portion, but still, stupid. Unfortunately, you can NOT fix stupid.

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@poot72]

I could see the argument about the masks if they were proven effective. Unfortunately unless every citizen gets fitted with a professional PPE, they’re useless. The problem with COVID is there is a lot of double standards and contradictions. If the government was truly concerned with keeping people safe, they would follow their own rules. Hard to take all this seriously when there’s “rules for thee, but not for me” and professionals contradicting each other, the government and even themselves.

[@johnmaynard869]

Our best meditation is to concentrate on the history of science, and practice of mathematics. It will center thinking.

[@Ammuze11]

I, as a Progressive, will probably never understand Societal Libertarianism (as opposed to Social Libertarianism which I agree with 90% of the time) The idea that I should trust individual businesses instead of the government just baffles me. I can choose who I want to run the government, I can't choose my boss. I can vote on what policies I want implemented, I can't vote on whether or not I need to work mandated overtime. I can voice my opinion against my representatives without retaliation, I can't voice my opinions against my workplace without being fired. But even outside of the workplace: The FDA makes sure that, when I buy food, I know what is in the food because it is mandated that food companies put a nutritional list on their food. The FDA makes sure that, when I buy medicine, that I'm not being sold a placebo that's marketed as cough syrup and that there's actual merit to it. The FDA makes sure that, when I receive a vaccine, that it must keep me immune for at least a year instead of incentivizing me to come back every week to stay healthy. The CDC makes sure to inform the public of possible bacterial or viral outbreaks due to the mismanagement of business' products (Romain Lettuce and E-Coli) The Department of Housing and Urban Development will make sure that a company that builds a house follows proper protocol so that I don't electrocute myself just for flipping a light switch. And that's only to name a few. Only a handful of people decide how a business is run, but I, and many others, get to decide how the country is run. And when the government is run poorly, we get to choose again. I would rather be ruled by the many than by the few.

[@faerryn8708]

Well, I don't think anyone trusts businesses over the government (you should trust neither!).If your employer treats you poorly, you should quit and spread the message to everyone you know so that the employer can't find anyone to hire anymore. In theory at least, workers should have the same leverage as their employers since they can always find another, nicer employer. Sadly, reality makes switching jobs difficult for people strapped for cash, which is why I think a true capitalistic free market does require some welfare so that workers aren't afraid to switch jobs or go on strike.

[@Ammuze11]

@@faerryn8708 If we had universal healthcare in America, workers who have employer based healthcare wouldn't be reluctantly tied to their job and could actually just go elsewhere without putting the health of their family at risk.

[@bigbrother7676]

I would like to respond to all of this but I don't have time in my life to. So I would like to keep it to your first claims. Libertarians never say trusting businesses over government. But that people know how to run their lives better than anyone else can. Also you don't get to individually choose the president. In fact your or my vote doesn't matter at all as what will 1 person deciding to vote for one party instead of another going to do. Elections aren't won by 1 vote. I'm guessing you didn't choose trump or many others in government positions and neither did I. You believe that you get a choice who is in the government, take a minute to think about it but you don't. Because whoever wins based on the other millions of votes you will have to live through with no choice. Now choosing bosses. You actually sort of can through different ways. You have the freedom of choosing who to work by applying and they have the freedom of approving it or not. You also have the freedom of not working for them at any time as you can quit any job. Also you have the freedom of being your own boss as a start up. Next part. You don't vote on policies. People in congress and the senate do. Now you don't individually elect them and they are not you. Some people will vote for things they campaign against and switch, some will not do it at all. There politicians: liars, and Hippocrates. (if your still reading my whole response it directed at everybody, not just your side, politicians all around are bad people) You actually have the choice of working overtime or not. Like said before if you do not work overtime you can leave the business or consult your employer. You may not believe this but this is 100% true, it is much easier hearing out and acknowledging a complaint when you hear from only 5-100 people (most people employed in small businesses) than hundreds of millions. In fact when is the last time any person in government has acknowledged a complaint in their state or even their city. On voicing opinion, like before when you voice something to a politician they literally don't care and if it is in person they will only act like it to keep the votes. In fact if your not in person your opinion wont even be heard anyways. The fact is the government doesn't care about you or me on an individual level. People like to think they do but they don't. Government isn't your savior and hasn't been through history. It's been individuals perusing their interests freely from control. (if you read this thanks for taking your time to, btw im not an anarchist)

[@drmadjdsadjadi]

We need less democracy, not more. Bring back the backroom dealmakers in the parties and have us choose between two elite options like we did in the 1950s and 1960s.

[@AnandMagic9]

You’re in luck, that never ended.

[@drmadjdsadjadi]

@@AnandMagic9 Wrong! If it had never ended then Trump would never have been nominated by the Republicans. Once we went to the primary system, we were screwed.

[@AnandMagic9]

If you think Trump represented anything other than elite interests, you’re a sucker.

[@drmadjdsadjadi]

@@AnandMagic9 If you think Trump represents anything other than Trump’s personal interests, you are naive.

[@AnandMagic9]

@@drmadjdsadjadi Yeah, Trump’s part of the New York elite. His personal interests are elite interests.

[@derekdfarrington11]

I’m a big Penn Jillette fan, but I’m sorry the drunk driving analogy is not a good one. When you drink and drive you don’t become immune to drunk driving and become a buffer from others to get injured from drunk driving. This immunity is what is going to save lives, money and our society.

[@robt864]

surprising that Penn seems to have bought the party line on this - wonder if he still thinks this way today

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@SHARON.I]

Great interview

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@SHARON.I]

@@electrictroy2010 here? Where?

[@stephenvannattan2099]

Could nor watch it. The lag time between the audio and video was disgusting and totally distracting. You ought to see if you can fix it.

[@honiideslysses12]

I ran into a “libertarian” who refused to wear a mask because it violated his freedom. I told him that I was also and if he understood what the non-aggression principle was all about. He laughed and called me a socialist and I just smiled and bid him a good day.

[@joelbarish]

Wow you're such a good person.......

[@jeffreyosterman4771]

I did not see Penn becoming a statist.

[@TheOneLostkin]

Can I still type in questions?

[@ikik4268]

Isn't it the therapist from the Scorpion TV show?!? No way!))))

[@petekapinos2264]

“I’m better than you because I’ve stopped working”

[@parsivalshorse]

Fantastic.

[@robk8463]

Great interview.

[@DJT.on.Ethereum]

10:32 - Someone's laundry is ready.

[@conorlynch2879]

I believe it's his tea, if his podcast is to be believed.

[@Stardust314159]

Hard to believe that after seeing his and Teller's show "Bullshit" (made in the 2000s) that he's now making some points that can be argued to be quite liberal. I don't agree with everything he has to say, but it restores a little of my faith in humanity to see that an honest man's (like Penn's) mind can be changed by the course of events, even a little.

[@HidekiShinichi]

Penn is a walking definition of "being able to change", he had to change his worldwiev from christian to atheistic at some point and it is a HUGE change, and as a freethinker and a huge proponent of a evidence based approach to life he is, by definition, ready to change anytime someone provides him with a compelling evidence or argument, and he listens for them openly, unlike a lot of mainstream and far left so called "liberals" that are trying to shut down people of opposing views without listening to them... Also, how the fuck anyone can call themself a name thats derived from a word literally meaning "freedom" and then advocate for taking said freedoms down in the name of *input whatever you hold dearer than freedom here*

[@michaelsalisbury1477]

@@HidekiShinichi Christian to " atheistic? Is goin forward!!!

[@VencedorGamer]

I did the similar thing with my weight, back in March of 2013 I weighed 388 lbs, I started a low sugar/carb liquid diet for 2 months lost 30 pounds, then had lap band surgery and lost another 120 pounds, by April of 2014 I weighed 214 lbs, I kept it off until the past couple years, I workout 2-3 days a week, last summer and this summer I did experiments in my lab with SARMs, and now it's Dec. 2020 and I weigh 253 lbs. Overall I've gained in leg, arm and abdominal muscles, lost some fat in the neck, face, arms, and thighs. I ate red meat 3 times in the past 6 months, and eat less heavily process foods, sticking to ancient grain vegetable pastas and chips, no breads, only meats I eat everyday are chicken, turkey, and fish, buying and eating "buy by the pound" nuts and dried fruits, fresh fruits, fresh and frozen vegetables, cut down on dairy products and only milk's I drink are Almond and Oat. Still eat dairy cheeses but I've switched to goat and non-GMO/RBST dairy products. I've maintained my weight from 230-255 pounds for the past year, even through the current economy and pandemic.

[@PhilT81]

Well done on the weight loss. The GMO aspect shouldn’t be a factor - unless there’s something that’s been modified in a bad way? The actual science is absolutely sound... but it has the potential to be misused. Farmers have been modifying genes for millennia. The only difference is that the process is far faster and less down to chance now.

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@gordonyork6638]

I agree. Meditation, is a great thing. But you need to practice consistently, preferably daily for an extended period of time.

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@trivialtrav]

Penn is one of the few self proclaimed libertarians I don't completely despise. The vast majority of libertarians are just right wingers without the evangelical side. I don't think I've ever met a libertarian who didn't vote Republican/Right wing independent 100% of the time. They'll even defy their own "no government interference" beliefs and support morality legislation like opposing gay rights at times. While I completely disagree with Penn on a number of issues (i.e. I think everyone should have access to publicly funded social safety nets), at least he actually stays true to his claimed beliefs instead of other libertarians who will gladly ignore their own in order to vote Republican 100% of the time.

[@fixitladie]

Penn is dope. 🙏🏾 Namaste

[@matt291]

No he is a dope. How does one spend that much time meditating and not realize that the solution to many of the problems he says have no answer is grace and kindness. Respect for the divine in another. Just like you said namaste. He still operates in his atheistic frame of reference and is stuck in a mental prison. The answer is right in front him and he can't see it.

[@PokerPlayerJames]

Lol the angry Libertarians in the comments. How dare Penn take the last 10 years to read books and study and expand his horrizons! How dare he challenge and question his world view and grow as a person!

[@insanepykl3603]

I hope a long life to mr jillette and mr teller. Y’all did your research and made fools of those who damn well fucking deserved it and that is something you just don’t see these days

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@eensrds]

So good to hear that Penn (as usual) is on the side of science, research, facts, and published studies when it comes to the Coronavirus instead of spreading crackpot theories. Great comparison with not wearing a mask and driving drunk. If you want to make irresponsible choices keep them to yourself, don't inflict them on others.

[@jthemagicrobot3960]

So should you believe the science when the cdc says you have a 90%+ survivability rate if you catch the covid?

[@eensrds]

@@jthemagicrobot3960 Yes, you should.

[@LookAroundMore]

Watching this in the land of 2022, I proclaim this did not age well.

[@ccreel64]

Thank you Penn, for acknowledging that for every finger we point at others there are three pointing back at us.

[@DavidJamesHenry]

The video begins on 0:21

[@Thomas-ry8xq]

I feel sad that Penn has left Libertarianism. I am a Libertarian and I think you can still be a Libertarian and disagree as to weather or not mask wearing should be mandatory. Libertarians disagree with a few, very issues. It's ok.

[@RayLRhodes]

Did Jilette think Dubyah was smarter than him?

[@timthielke3541]

Probably. W was a smart guy. He wasn't a brilliant guy. President is an exclusive enough position that we should demand someone smarter than him. But he was still a well above average intelligence.

[@costcolawschool]

penn gilette openly says he embraced libertarianism because he never thought it would or should succeed on principle, but because it was trendy and cool. he says the corporations run the government and that is perfectly fitting. thanks for finally being honest, i guess?

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@biologicalengineoflove6851]

Hot damn this was an awesome interview.

[@elinope4745]

Japan did the covid thing perfectly. The people respect each other, and the government has a history of working for the people's interests even over the corporate interests. The people there trust their government. Their government advised, but didn't order the people to wear masks and quarantine themselves, and the people took the advice and wore masks and quarantined themselves out of choice because they trusted their government.

[@rossmelnyk1900]

Japan is also fairly homogeneous country..

[@greob]

This is false.

[@Station_AI]

@@rossmelnyk1900 homogenous in what respect?

[@rossmelnyk1900]

@@Station_AI both ethnically and culturally.

[@mdspence11]

I hate to evoke the American exceptionalism argument, but Japan was much different prior to Fat Man and Little Boy. The Imperialists would have never...........

[@emperorofuranus9728]

What Penn is referring to, that feeling that you get when you hug someone you're fond of, or feel some sense of connection to that you can't define as a sexual feeling, are peptides and neuropeptides released by your body, a chemical release associated with bonding. In other words... Hugs are drugs! Therefore, despite anything he says to the contrary, Penn is on drugs! Oh my! Our bodies have glands that produce chemicals that impact us, such as oxytocin produced by the pituitary gland... A chemical reaction is what is giving you that non-sexual but warm, fuzzy feeling you get when you hug people you feel some sense of bonding with, perhaps when you are listening to the right music that moves you emotionally, etc.

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@annsanse2935]

I hate exercise, too. But I loooove skating. I skate bc I love it. F*ck the exercise.

[@UserNameAnonymous]

Penn was a huge influence on me and my libertarian beliefs. It's sad to hear him talk about "maybe we do need an overlord" and "individualism led to this." I think this is a misunderstanding of libertarianism and individualism. Nothing in libertarianism says you shouldn't wear a mask. Some people claiming to be libertarians are anti-mask, yes. The media (especially social media) have gotten very good at manipulating people and selecting the information people get to hear. The lesson to be learned isn't "libertarianism is wrong," it's that your view of libertarianism was incomplete. We have additional things to consider, none of which require you to throw out your core values (unless you held some weird values that need refining). Sometimes we get the wrong answer under freedom. Nobody ever said we'd be right all the time. It's still a fuck of a lot better than leaving it up to would-be authoritarian dictators.

[@edmundoalarcon2000]

He lost himself in liberal propaganda

[@timthielke3541]

"Nothing in libertarianism says you shouldn't wear a mask." True, but libertarianism does proclaim that you shouldn't HAVE TO wear a mask. Which means you get to put other people and society at large at risk (or not do so) based on your own whims. This of course isn't all strains of libertarianism, but most at least in the USA.

[@UserNameAnonymous]

@@timthielke3541 - I don't think libertarianism says you should never be forced to wear a mask. I don't always have the right to spread (or potentially spread) a disease that harms others. I also can't fire a gun willy-nilly. I have to be in a safe area and/or away from other people. The NAP doesn't apply when you're harming others or exposing others to unreasonable risks. The freedoms of libertarianism go hand in hand with the responsibility to not harm others while exercising our freedoms. Of course, there's a lot of nuance to this topic. It's a case that straddles the line of what is and is not acceptable under libertarianism. We have to be reasonable and try to figure out the best path in the real world.

[@timthielke3541]

@@UserNameAnonymous I did specifically say that wasn't every stripe of libertarian, but it is most. The premise of libertarianism (you can do anything you want so long as it doesn't harm others' rights to do whatever they want) is great, but almost meaningless as literally everything we do affects others. So then it's just a matter of which trade-offs are acceptable and which aren't. And that debate is already what is being had by most other ideologies.

[@UserNameAnonymous]

@@timthielke3541 - I know you said that, I was simply disagreeing on one specific point. Many libertarians might feel that way, but I believe that libertarianism itself as an ideology (as understood by libertarian thinkers like John stuart mill) doesn't say that being forced to wear a mask is wrong. I believe many libertarians haven't really thought about it that hard. If they did, they might move a little bit towards to center of the issue. Totally agree that it's a subject of debate. I think that most people who are completely sure of their position are probably wrong. This is one of those issues that will never be easy. There will never be a bright line.

[@andybaldman]

The problems we have today have simply gotten to the point where they are complex enough that they require coordinated responses and solutions by large groups of people. And in that scenario, just letting everyone do whatever they want won't work (as we've seen). However, forcing people to do things won't work either. So what's the solution? The answer is greater awareness, that comes about from improved systems of talking AND listening. Right now, everyone is talking, and just trying to talk louder than everyone else. And too many people aren't spending enough time listening, and actually acting to find the ideal solution for the GROUP. Their primary concern is themselves, and they don't see beyond that. Like the cells in your body, when living beings have the proper level of awareness, COLLECTIVELY, something magic happens, where they will all see what the correct solution for the whole is, and will make the choice to do it together, under their own independent choice. This is how the body of every living being operates. And it does it effortlessly. This is what we need to work toward, as a species. Because it's how we are going to have to solve the even bigger problems that are headed our way. Covid was just batting practice, compared to what is coming.

[@PhilT81]

Sounds like globalisation and close to communism - the complete opposite to Libertarianism to me. By the time the free market works out that a global climate catastrophe and many of your customers being dead or unable to produce/farm things is bad for business... it’ll be too late. We need to work together for the global good. Blind patriotism and isolationism as advocated by Trump is stupid. Hopefully America takes its rightful place as a leader in the efforts to fix this planet at COP6.

[@51stcenturygirl]

@odibex this. I was stumped by his comment. Not much self awareness there🤣

[@andybaldman]

@@51stcenturygirl If you think that is a contradiction, you aren't understanding what he said.

[@andybaldman]

@@PhilT81 You're agreeing with me. The labels you're using are confusing you.

[@PhilT81]

@@andybaldman I think the problem is they they’re confusing other people because they’re so used to thinking of things in such binary terms when everything is far more complicated than that and with so many variables. You can recognise that America, despite its many problems, retains an influential global position as well as access to resources that mean the reality is that it’s one of the countries who’s actions will have the greatest influence on the actions of others... without dumbly waving flags and crowing about how America is the greatest nation on Earth and Americans are superior to other people. The two are very very different things.

[@shirleyblackburn8244]

A master of audience illusions who knows the show must go on!

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@thelifeandtimesofjames4273]

Always nice to hear Penn talk. Would love to get into points of disagreement with him. Seems like, in normal times, you could debate him and then shake hands and be friends afterwards.

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@ro6742]

The year that broke the illusion that Penn Jillette is actually a libertarian.

[@geico1975]

I don't get Penn when he talks at the start as if there are no "rugged individuals" left, and totally disagree with that sentiment if that's what he's saying, but I'll keep watching:)

[@anomanderrake3900]

You did apologize though. For the second hand smoke segment.

[@mrhumpty]

Penn's dislike of Trump has seriously compromised his ability to execute solid principles... and it's why I completely ran away from him as his TAS. Hell, even his thoughts on Covid are so aggressively wrong and it's because of the gatekeepers he champions...

[@ceedric]

You ran right into the arms of QAnon you sheep. Spill it. You hate the promotion of masks during COVID because you don't care whose parents and grandparents will probably die. Your shock means you've never seen their show 'Bullshit' where they squash anti-vaccinators arguments. So... pick ANY of the biggest problems you believe we are experiencing, then give us your idea of the solution, I'm curious if it'll be like Penn & Teller, an entertaining illusion.

[@jthemagicrobot3960]

@@ceedric humm covid only has a 90%+ survivability rate

[@ceedric]

@@jthemagicrobot3960 I'll disregard the fact that according to your logic 10% of people dying from contracting a highly contagious disease is not a big deal. The people in this 10% are easily your grandparents, my grandparents, friends grandparents, just to give a human face to that statistic. Once there's a 95% effective vaccine, is your plan to recommend that everyone should not take the vaccine? Just want to confirm... that that is THE plan.

[@Station_AI]

He dared to speak out against your dear leader now he must be disregarded. The cult of Trump is strikingly similar to the church of Scientology.

[@StarCrusher.]

This is why I love this channel. More like this please.

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@JoeyKneecap]

Would have loved for more questions about societal and political illusions and less about the lifestyle of Penn.

[@johnkarls2132]

Penn Jillette is a egomaniac!!!

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@christopherandrewjohnston938]

At 35:40 Penn begins his take on his partnership with Teller. He's got some profound insight into professional relationships and collaboration.

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@geico1975]

Federal, State, County, Town, City, and/or Municipal Board of Educations should never endorse or condemn any religious or secular programs of any kind. However, kids should always be permitted of starting programs they want to be a part of.

[@Kennbrooks]

Completely wrong on wearing masks that have proven not to work! I can’t believe the commentary on this point of narrow minded view

[@oranpf]

I have often been torn between a few "libertarian" ideas not shared by Democrats and the more typical American left / center-left ideas. In order to make sense of it as an ideology, I ended up at this idea I call "consequentialist libertarian". Pure consequentialism is hard because it's hard to define "good" or "utility." Freedom is hard because it sometimes backfires. But, if you aim for a consequentialist philosophy with the good/utility you are aiming for being freedom, it suddenly aligns well with my politics. I highly recommend it, if only as a thought experiment, when you are unsure about any political question.

[@jpe1]

Oran Switzer my journey shares similarities with yours; a libertarian who sees the importance of some government regulation, a socialist who sees the power of free markets. I like your “consequentialist” approach. Have you read any of John Rawls books? I recommend “Justice as Fairness”.

[@oranpf]

@Mr Spacetime One problem: the "literal treason" is precipitated by and essentially all of the evidence is coming from Republicans. Where does that leave sane people on the center left? We're supposed to either support Republican racists and warmongers like Sessions and Bolton or support a literal fascist because Democrats aren't allowed access to the evidence? Even in the most recent scandal, the administration carefully selected only supporters to give briefings on what they knew, and they came out from the briefing and said "the investigation will never be conclusive, but we can trust the administration to investigate it themselves without any independent oversight and without every telling us their conclusions." Thanks, whew. I was worried for a minute that I might have to think for myself. Back to the firehose of propaganda.

[@tiberiusbrain]

Penn, idk why you say you're not smart, but know this: you ARE wise.

[@Hi_Brien]

Humility drives wisdom

[@excitingworld364]

Wow. He thinks corporations and rugged individualism are good for America...no words. How blind you think people are?

[@jthemagicrobot3960]

Corporations are a government created and enforced entity- rugged individualism is the opposite

[@BobbyFlip86]

I feel like I Kno wat we might be not missing but perhaps overlooking . For the past 2 weeks something seems to be on a movement in the verb type sense .. it's not magic it's more complex .. I feel like I might have got it but because of my lack of f whatever is needed to do this type of experiment.. . I could see it in the sense of a flowchart but thats not how humans do u experiments on a conceptual level . I feel like its like the tip of my tongue and it's gonna be huge... I'm also feeling like it's needs to be treated as sensitive as possible with the spread of it .. .good and evil ... Any ideas please wud help In

[@jonsolo9694]

We have improved in many ways but we let the concept of personal responsibility die.

[@captainhowdey4704]

@@Bringadingus How about we all agree responsibility is a bad word now.

[@frankiesalatino547]

It's really moving to hear Penn walk back his opinion of a society where every person has a platform and agency to express their opinions without any credentials. He is a national treasure for his thought provoking discourse and mastery of rhetoric and explaining complex ideas in a fun way.

[@kyhber1]

What's his views on 911 ..What dose he make of all these great architects who say it was impossible for those planes to destroy the twin towers and building 7 ... What dose the science say on the matter ... He seems to have an opinion on everything ...Was it an inside job ? ..Will stand up and say what he thinks against these Architects ..

[@AV8R_Surge]

About church and state - curiosity question: where do you separate the state from the constituent - where teachers are both state (as school leaders) and constituent (as individuals) ? Should the state prohibit constituents from practicing religion on state property - where students can't pray while at school? Or do we allow a religious free-for-all on state property? I don't have the answers.

[@inkwellflood8276]

Or - would jesus like us holding peoples health to ransom for raw narcissistic greed, every day.

[@hackprefect]

Students can absolutely pray at school. Students can even lead other students in prayer if they so choose. Students cannot be led by school officials in prayer.

[@tparkergm]

Separation of church and state isn't about disallowing church like activities from occurring on state property. Unfortunately our state sponsored schools have done a poor job on teaching us this since it is often brought up. Remember why the people (pilgrims) left England and other countries? Because those countries where forbidding people to practice certain religions. England bounced from Catholic and protestants and each banned and persecuted the other side when they were in power. Separation of Church and State stems from that. You have the freedom to worship as you like without state interference. The state can't tell you what you can or can not practice. In your question, the state can't prevent students from praying. And yes, we do allow a religious free for all on state properties. And guess what, you don't even notice it. LOL. How many legislators and state workers are deeply religious? How many prayers are done on state property? How many religious symbols and icons are present? But you don't notice it because it isn't a big deal.

[@michaelsalisbury1477]

Students can and do pray in public schools but not enmass!!!

[@michaelsalisbury1477]

Students can and do pray in public schools but not enmass!!!

[@The1980Philip]

Penn is modest. Of the U.S. Presidents in the lifetime, only George H.W. Bush was really smart. Obama's pretty smart too, but most of the others had more charisma than smarts.

[@RayStraiter]

Phillip thinks he is the judge of who is smart. I don't think that is enough to actually qualify for the job, though. I could be wrong. I don't pretend to be the judge.

[@The1980Philip]

@@RayStraiter Rephrase your paragraph. It makes no sense. And iI stand by my statements. Many of the POTUS' werent smart in the traditional sense, but had charisma, an eye for talent (people they can delegate to knowing that they won't f*ck up) and keen political instincts.

[@jackanaples]

Reagan was incredibly stupid, a fact noted by his own cabinet. Trump is arguably even more stupid--again a fact noted by several people that know him including cabinet members. George H. W. Bush wasn't dumb. Jimmy Carter wasn't dumb either. Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar and wicked smart, qualities that are immediately noticeable whenever he's been interviewed by someone like Chris Wallace or whomever. Obama was the head of the Harvard Law Review. You can't get to that level if you're dumb because there are so many smart people vying for the job.

[@michaelpond813]

Trump was a ho mongerin ol looser.

[@Kjf2691]

Great interview! Penn makes me proud to be a libertarian! And his thoughts on cancel culture echo what I feel.

[@PhilT81]

Actually, it always surprises me that he’s a libertarian. I think it’s because he got in to it when he was very young and impressionable. In every other area he’s shown such growth over the years. He’s always seemed much too nice, smart and wise to be lumped in with the sort of people who typically identity as libertarian. I think it’s because, when he was young, he associated it with being socially liberal. He’s clearly embarrassed by the association much as many evangelical Christians are embarrassed by how toxic the term ‘evangelical’ has become.

[@Kjf2691]

@@PhilT81 eh, he hasn’t really grown that much, sure he changed his views on climate change, but he really hasn’t changed. You’re right about that there are people(I.e trumpers and republicans) who have hijakced the term and made it look bad. In this interview though, I feel he’s more or less trying to see what a libertarian solution is.

[@spec24]

@@PhilT81 wow, are you an idiot.

[@spec24]

@@PhilT81 ..but your point is made. If people agree with you then they've grown. If not then they're meanies and not all that smart, even though study after study has shown those who identify more libertarian tend to be smarter. I don't suppose the irony of your juvenile statement will ever sink in.

[@jcboyle82]

@@spec24 lol. The only studies on right wing libertarians show that they have higher IQs because they are rich and middle class and have been raised in privilege. It’s a morally bankrupt ideology you have to be raised in comfort with Regan-era propoganda pounded into your head to believe in.

[@robervaldo4633]

so, after many years daring people to fool him, he realized he was fooled by himself :)

[@cosmicmanik]

I would love to see a Penn & Teller: Bullshit! episode of Covid19.

[@adamhawn2523]

cosmicmanik hope you’re not suggesting the virus is a hoax 🙄

[@cosmicmanik]

@@adamhawn2523 the 'virus' sure is, the disease? of course not, the deaths around the world? of course not.

[@steveh7108]

Absolutely. It would be great to see unbiased opinion on all the b******* surrounding the virus. Like mandating masks for adults but exempting kids under 12 as if kids did not carry the virus and transmitted just as easily. They openly state that the mask is predominantly to keep people from transmitting it, not to keep from getting it. So why the b*******. Masks are designed to be worn for a short. Of time and then disposed of or washed. Anybody with a little Common Sense knows that after an hour of wearing it let alone multiple hours of wearing it there is a lot of bacteria in that mask in a warm damp bacteria growing perfect environment. And then you have food workers that constantly touch the mask pulling it up and down and then touch your food etc etc so why the bulshit. There definitely needs to be someone to cut through the b******* to give the real facts. People wearing a mask while driving their car or walking down the street alone is absolutely ridiculous and does not help a thing except maybe to get themselves sick. You don't think it's b*******? Does anybody remember all the CPAP machines that they've been prescribing for the last 10 years only to find out everyone was getting respiratory problems from the bacteria and now they sell a separate machine to clean all the bacteria on a daily basis. That alone should remind you that even the medical field is full of b*******.

[@TAICHIJOELAMP]

get your tenth Jabb

[@healthyhomesoflubbock3985]

Why is it that America’s best never run for president

[@GeorgeVCohea-dw7ou]

Those people have better things to do than to spend at least a couple of years trying to be hired for a short term job with relatively low pay and lifetime complications.

[@ChrisTheAbyss]

It’s not a popular job, being president. No matter your best intentions, at least one-third of the country is going to hate you. It’s one of our big failings as a country - we always want a perfect politician (they don’t exist). We cling to ideology, more than reason.

[@Void7.4.14]

Sooo, it's just not a simple as people are either autonomous and capable or not. The material conditions and culture of a society plays a massive role and are main factors in analyzing these kinds of things. Under our current conditions and our current culture it's almost designed for disasters like these. But the answer shouldn't be more state power, more individuals wielding undue influence, more guns pointed at people tellin em what to do, etc,. The only way to fix it is to build towards a society where no individual has that kinda power, institutions aren't pulling all the strings, people understand how to think critically and rely on the best available evidence, to fix this backwards, toxic culture and it's social relations, etc. We're easy prey for division and conflict because everything is designed to promote that because that makes us easy to manipulate, exploit, and dominate, and even if some catch on there's no hope for meaningful resistance because we're all atomized, walled off, and divided along arbitrary lines. Me and most of my friends are anarchists, the OG libertarians, the tradition that coined the term. And instead of the mythical "rugged individual" we understand that while we're unique individuals we're also social animals in an interdependent world so their has to be some reconciling of the individual and the collective. We all started wearing (mostly homemade) masks before there was ever even a call to do so and the CDC was saying not to. We didn't need someone to tell us to do it because we felt that responsibility to ourselves, our family and friends, and our broader community, and the science was there. We didn't require a nanny but we aren't special or unique or somehow different from everyone else in the world who didn't. For about a year now we've been distributing masks, rides to the doctor or to testing and vaccinations, etc, to anyone who needs as a part of the work we already do in the community. Again, no need for anyone to make us do anything just identifying a need and filling it the best we can, or direct action and mutual aid. The problem with this billionaire ideology that is right-"libertarianism" (some use "anarcho"-capitalism) is that it's a bs worldview with more contradictions than I could even begin to pretend to lay out here cause it serves a single purpose and that's to prop up power in one area while criticizing it in another. It's a utopian pipedream with no basis in reality and no consistency in thought. So no wonder it crumbles in times like these! It can't even stand up to basic scrutiny, how could it survive reality? What's never once failed is I'm times like these the best hope anyone has is anarchists and like-minded people showing up to help their community and when necessary offering that leadership without needing to resort to authoritarian means cause we understand that means and ends are not separate things. Go to any disaster or tragedy in recent history and you'll find anarchists doin what they can to help where the state and business has done little to nothing, anarchists were in New Orleans before the federal government, Occupy Sandy, to the current mutual aid networks and direct action that's happening right now, all spearheaded by anarchists who provided the necessary leadership to get people of all walks involved. Libertarianism + compassion + responsibility (both individual and collective) is just classical anarchism lol Apply all those mostly valid arguments against the state to private property (not personal property), the mythical market, and capitalism as a whole and you'll find they're equally valid and capitalism cannot stand up to that kinda scrutiny and only does cause it's been made so theoretical and so fetishized that it's this sacred cow. Let it go and a whole new world of possibility opens up with a tradition that goes back as far as we have writings and all around the world. ✊👊🖤☮️🥀🏴🌐A///E

[@tescheurich]

It's so fascinating to watch the rare sight of someone spending an hour entertaining the possibility that their views of a short time ago were wrong. I think New Atheisty Libertarian had and has a lot more worth than Penn feels like it does right now. It will take rediscovery and reclaiming. This process of vulnerability, assessment in the moment, and assessment with distance is the only way ideas ever get better. I know who my people are. My people are people who can do it.

[@ttww1590]

The sticking point for me remains the challenge of changing ones opinion without needing personal experience.

[@spec24]

All it proves is that Penn is going senile.

[@electrictroy2010]

Here’s a current interview about Penn still being libertarian: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, Masks, Abortion, and Libertarianism

[@random55912]

Hes so much like me, and the other way round...

[@random55912]

@Elreypachuco Really?! Thats amazing!!

[@holeshothunter5544]

voice is hugely out of sync. Fortunately this is radio...

[@getnkosi]

Why

[@mikemiller5637]

He always makes me calm down.

[@healthyhomesoflubbock3985]

Remember years ago when many people thought Chinese were paranoid to walk around in mask

[@spec24]

Yeah. Turns out we were right. Listen, there is not one shred of evidence to back up the case for wearing masks in public as we're doing. Not one. You clowns talk about science, but only when it backs up your bullshit. There is no science to mask wearing by the general public. The science ACTUALLY suggests that the general public should NOT wear masks because the science of touching your mask, wearing a dirty mask, cloth masks, ill-fitting masks, has not changed!! All of those things can actually make the situation worse, and that is what the general public is doing. But you're all more concerned with virtue-signaling that you can't think straight. Damn the evidence and damn the science! Give it to me! Where is the data that shows mask wearing reduces this virus in the general population? If you actually LOOK at the data and don't wait for someone to tell you what it is, you'll see that mask mandates and other bullshit have zero effect on the case rate. ZERO! Imagine that. But yeah, keep pushing this mask wearing bullshit around so everyone feels safe instead of actually doing what's necessary.

[@healthyhomesoflubbock3985]

@@spec24 you’re preaching to the choir. I have certification in crime scene and suicide cleanup.Also in indoor air quality and water damage restoration.I clean covid with 380 degree dry vapor steam and clo2(stabilized bleach) and your statements are completely true.and of course I have hazmat suits and commercial respirators

[@geoffhubbard7815]

I see a fallacy in Penn's logic in that we never exceeded the capacity of the health care system; the goal was never supposed to be that nobody [dies]; it was to ensure that we never ran out of beds; we were successful. Truth is, if you needed a respirator, you got one; if you died in the USA from Covid, it was either because you never were admitted to an ICU when you should have been, or you died in your sleep at your house. (The elderly were at risk, PERIOD... There is no getting around that vector; IMO it was going to happen regardless, just as with the FLU.)

[@user-me8hc3bs7i]

I can’t even begin to unpack all the reasons why as to why that is factually incorrect. I’d highly advise you to talk to your local nurse at your local hospital. We flat out don’t have a cure, there’s people in their 30’s that were admitted with symptoms that were minor and stayed on a respirator for weeks and still died. People are being put on beds in fucking hallways. The entire healthcare system is seeing burnouts and quitting in droves because nurses are watching their patients code and die while they’re trying to save someone else.

[@geoffhubbard7815]

@@user-me8hc3bs7i You seem to miss the point; the RAMP is the reason for the lockdown. We would have the same death rate, or near to it, if we had followed the Sweden model. Instead, we have the same death rate, AND a destroyed economy, along with an erosion of individual rights not seen ever before in the USA. Governors have discovered that they can act like kings. -IMO, NOT worth it.

[@ttww1590]

@@geoffhubbard7815 I'm unclear of your intended point. Penn's point is it seems possible to look state by state and county by county to see impacts to mortality rates and economy, and compare the results from areas where people where their was light governance/enforcement and areas where there was firm/invasive governance/enforcement, which caused him to conclude his personal beliefs were (hopefully temporarily) flawed.

[@ttww1590]

@@geoffhubbard7815 People died due to respirator shortages in the USA. Many covid deaths are/were in hospital world wide. Flu hospitalisations and deaths are substantially down world wide. Not all lock downs had same intent or reasoning, and enforcement/adherence varied.

[@petekapinos2264]

Praise for Australia?????

[@randallwright4317]

I mean seriously ... 75 percent of the screen is nothing ... how can a "CEO" has not clue at all??

[@blancaroca8786]

Penn has lost his reason if he equates not wearing a mask with drunk driving. He needs to use intuition a bit and not regurgitate the doctrinations coming through corporate media. Like in the old days people only had church.. so they were indoctrinated.. today’s media replaces church. Ironic as penn is atheist. Penn needs to appreciate Trump as he is at least not having his strings pulled by corporations.

[@mrshark9382]

trump is the corporation, albeit a private one, he still is not a good example, and he is a good president but only for improving the country he was in control of.

[@RobertCosper]

What's up

[@Confucius_76]

The South Park creators seem to have a similar view of things as Penn. They can't think of any funny response to the current situation. Funny how they both went from adolescent libertarianism to horror at the world. It's almost as if their own ideas spread too far and actually started to affect society in ways they didn't anticipate

Well then they'd have to make fun of themselves and only truly brilliant people do that kind of thing.

[@jasonreed1352]

Penn, the confusion you have regarding the freedom to not wear a mask issue is understandable. As a Libertarian, MY issue is that the government does not suddenly gain more power than is granted to them by The Constitution for any reason. And while The Constitution does not state that the government may not mandate masks, it DOES quite clearly say the government may not restrict freedom to freely assemble and freedom to literally overthrow them if they do not govern according to the authority granted to them by The Constitution. Yes, yes, a virus with 99% survival rate is worthy of paying attention to and taking actions to prevent unnecessary suffering. But it does NOT afford the government the authority to take action that is beyond their authority under fundamental law. It is not unnoticed that the freedom to be stupid is indeed granted to the citizenry. And if we face fundamental dangers that are not addressed in fundamental law, then shall we not AMMEND the fucking fundamental law instead of granting the government the authority to shitcan The Constitution at its own discretion? Due to a virus that is only a different kind of exactly deadly as the fucking flu virus? Come on, now...

[@Matt-fs1yy]

If you don't do the right thing before someone "tells" you to do it, then this self-governance experiment called the USA means nothing. There is no such thing as freedom without responsibility. You Trump idiots have no hope of understanding this.

[@morbotheconquer]

its interesting the amount of strawmen arguments in these comments aimed at invalidating penn's point of view, for the sake of validating the commenter. christ, chill for a second, i dont agree with him 100% either but he has some interesting stuff to say if you listen for a second. or at least listen for the sake of refuting him in an effective way. people who rush to the comments after hearing half of what hes saying is just depressing.

[@SchGtr]

maybe the only thing I didn't like Penn was his position towards animals. Even when I ate meat a part of my brain felt bad about animal suffering

[@alexflenner3778]

@Issica Barnoff. But you said you're library ends where someone else's life begins.What about the cows life?