Perfect Antenna Strategy for Small Plots

[@RiaanZS1ZAR]

Just for interest sake. I have re-designed my DX Commander radials to fit in a 2m x 2m space with great success. SWR readings as follows: 40m (1.06); 30m (1.05); 20m (1.08); 17m (1.11); 15m (1.34); 12m (1.09 but still needs a bit of tuning); 10m (also still need to be tuned). Element wire = DX50. Radials = 15mm copper pipe spiderweb design. Test results = Rigexpert 650 Zoom. Furthest contact 12232km (South Africa to Canada Twice with 2 different contacts on 85W SSB) It just proofs that you do not need a massive area for radials for a DX Commander antenna. 73

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Fantastic!

[@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z]

Brilliant!

[@DukeDave1]

Thank you Calum and John. Great chat guys.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Our pleasure!

[@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z]

Definitely our pleasure!

[@cgripp256]

I use an 40-10 EFHW mounted around my fence top at 6’ above ground in conjunction with my DXC expedition and have had good success.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Oh yes.. Good idea.

[@W4TRI_Ronny]

My loop on ground will be made from messenger wire split from RG-11 75 ohm Catv coax. Can't wait to try it next year!

[@g0fvt]

So many sources of wire for experiments, even an old extension cable or lawnmower type cable can be stripped down for the individual wires. Although some of us old boys have a lot of money tied up with the hobby there is so much fun to be had with basic things. I certainly had great contacts and a lot of fun using a long length of wire down the garden fed from a homebrew tuner and an FT707 bought from a CBer....

[@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z]

there is nothing like the feeling of putting up an antenna you built and making contacts.

[@don_n5skt]

I have a very small yard with far too many antennas in it. I even have a Hexbeam. But starting out, I only managed the DX Commander and a 40m EFHW. Then, I added a loop on the ground. I added an 80m EFHW which goes from my back yard to across the trees in the front of my house. It is fed in the back yard so is not visible from the street in the front of the house. So if you can make use of both your front and back yard that way, it's a good alternative.

[@garryhammond3117]

Thanks guys! - Lots of insight into practical antennas. - Cheers!

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Our pleasure!

[@philrobinson8862]

This was the main reason for me initially getting a dx commander, the garden is only 20ft by 15ft. I hadn't thought about having a ground loop for the rx.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yeah.. Do it.. Lovely quiet sound. Click on the Pre-amp and just nice..!

[@TFuzz58]

Cal you are absolutely correct, having a DX Commander has spoiled me for anything else. I do intend to do a LOG hopefully this summer. I will run through an SDR. I will send the audio from it and my IC 7300 through a small mixer so I can have one in my left ear and the other in the right ear. Cheers from Moose Jaw. Tim VE5THF

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Ah! Yes, nice plan..

[@JoshColletta]

If you're doing a listen-only antenna, another great source of cheap or even free material is if a retail store is renovating their sound system. One of the companies that I work for does that as a contractor, and our largest client at the moment is a major retailer here in the States that's renovating all of their stores. The general rule is that we want enough speaker cable to get the job done, but a little extra for any unforeseen problems that may come up, and of course there are always the little scraps here and there that come with any installation job. If you can catch them at the time they're tossing all the scrap out -- because there's not enough of it to justify the cost of taking it to be recycled, so it just gets dumped -- then ask them if you can take the speaker wire off their hands. I've got some 12 gauge that I brought home from one job, and I use one side of it as a random-length wire wrapped around a hula hoop going into the level side of a 9:1 balun... so, not **technically** a mag loop, but it's directional like one. It's wired to BE a mag loop, but with the 9:1 balun, it darn near blows out my SDR. Going straight into the level side, though, It's just about as sensitive as my YouLoop, despite being tied to the electrical field rather than magnetic. I do plan to build or buy a 4:1 balun at some point and once again try it as a mag loop, AND use the other side to run a loop around the perimeter of my apartment balcony. I'm on the second floor, so it won't quite be an LOG, but I would bet I can still get some performance boost out of it since the YouLoop does pretty well on the horizontal plane, as well.

[@PrecisionGroupYT]

Good comparison thank you while I don’t own a Elecraft KX3 I have the Icom 7610 ( 2 years ) and 7300 ( 6+ years ) but I use the BHI DSP module with both and they both sound fantastic! Many HAMs will buy a radio to have better audio like a Yaesu for their DNR ( which I agree sounds great ) but many don’t know that they can add Noise reduction to their existing radio for far less money……plus I love the Icom’s user interface 73

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Good point.

[@2E0RXL]

My set up is DXC and a efhw for 40-10 and it works perfect for me having a very small back garden.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Lovely.

[@DonzLockz]

Thanks guys. Got me thinking about planning and running more cable runs now now.🧐👍🍻

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Do it old friend!

[@MikeN2MAK]

Thanks, this was fun to watch and gave me some good ideas.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@dondonaldson1684]

After watching your videos and the movie "All The Light You Cannot See", I was inspired to brush up on my radio and attenna theory and then take my Canadian Advanced Amateur test. It is a great hobby, and even as an RF engineer by training, I am amazed at what creative hams come up with. Who would ever think a loop on the ground would be a good receive antenna! Thanks for putting out these videos. They are entertaining, inspirational AND educational! 73 VE3NAP

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I know, I would have never believed it until I tried it myself..!

[@DominicMazoch]

If you got a wooden fence, you could put a long wire on it with electric fence insulaters

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Or just pin them directly with cable clips..?

[@davidsheedy5793]

Another great video, I really enjoys these, I learn and learn...

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Awesome, thank you!

[@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z]

thanks that is the goal to help others advance in amateur and for us to learn from the comments and others.

[@richardtwyning]

I don't know how it will go. I can only fit four cars in our garden and a large quarter of that is the hot tub 😁 I'm definitely going to go for a loop on the ground. It'll have to follow the base of the garden fence as we don't have grass. Then I was thinking of building a dipole. I have loads of that BT phone wire. I bought it from someone at college in 1989 and used it on various projects over the years 😁 73s M7GTX

[@DXCommanderHQ]

You can do it!

[@mattstosh6960]

Plenty of free/abandoned CAT5 cabling sitting at the dumpsters here. Strip the ends off and twist the 8 pairs together and you have good antenna making material.. Know a frugal guy who did this for the CQWW contest and took 3rd place.

[@TheREALJosephTurner]

Not been able to find an answer to this... say you have a vertical with a radial field. Would there be major issues if a dipole crossed the radial field? I've not had issues with a 40m dipole 15 or so feet above a 20m dipole, but I don't know if a radial field with lots of wires would affect things too bad.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

You shouldn't have a problem.

[@AndyAAzeroAM]

8 car size lot? You're measuring like an American now Callum! 😂 Enjoyed the video Boys, looking forward to what's next

[@DXCommanderHQ]

More to come! LOL!!

[@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z]

Definitely Andy!

[@aussiedazvk4djh889]

for a small yard it would have to be a DX Commander!👍🍻

[@michaelc6986]

Can your vertical antenna (DX Commander) be set in the middle of the loop on the ground if you don’t have enough space to put them next to each other? Or would this cause any type of interference? Just a inquisitive thought 💭

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I'm sure that would work just fine.

[@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z]

Just make sure you protect your receiver. Either with a rig having 2 receivers and both are off during transmission, or you have a TX/RX switch in place that will sense the RF and ground your receive port during TX.

[@curtishustace]

I would like to know how to "plum" the Ground loop into the back of the radio?! How Would that be done?

[@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z]

depends on your rig. if you have an RX jack it is simple. there are hacks for rigs like the 7300. A Tx/RX switch is also an option.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

As John says.. You need an "RX" jack in the back of your rig - or that MFJ thingy that John mentioned.

[@curtishustace]

@@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z thank you!!

[@curtishustace]

@@DXCommanderHQ probably the mfj thingy will be the best route. 🤪

[@glennmuz3200]

I would go for 10m with a cb 5/8 wave on a concreted-in pole.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Nice.

[@Rubedo777]

My back garden? When I buy my DX Signature… I’ll struggle to get the radials down even cutting them to 2 mtrs But I’ll do it when I’m ready

[@geoffpriestley7310]

Asda sell washing line 20m plastic coated with a brass coated wire in the middle its reasonable light weight but very strong and can be soldered

[@PatAutrey]

Thank you are you able to get reception on 40 and 20 m with the loop on the ground

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes. Make the loop LESS than half a wavelength.. So a 30ft loop will do 20m.. Surprisingly, the 15-ft square loop covers 160m very well too.

[@PatAutrey]

@@DXCommanderHQ are you also using a transformer on your 90 m long loop

[@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z]

@@PatAutrey yes using a small binocular core.

[@PatAutrey]

Okay so other than the difference in length the 90 m loop is built exactly as the 15x15 loop?

[@PatAutrey]

Also​@@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z are you using two separate transformers for connecting both loops to the same transformer please confirm

[@alejandrovidal1607]

Fan dipole? don't have the CMC problems like efhw and can be adjusted for any band in particular

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Sure.. But the higher bands like a bit of height..

[@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z]

great idea works in the scenario, and you could coil load for 80m for a shorter version.

[@vjdav6872]

Soon I would ned all this - 73s

[@problemwithauthority]

When laying out the yard, where are we putting the antennas for 6 meters through 23 centimeters?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

On the roof!

[@LoftechUK]

Thank you

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Welcome!

[@bassmanjr100]

Hello Mr. DX, what would you put up if you had acres and acres, but the budget and hassle level doesn't match up to putting up towers and such. Been a general for a couple of years, and I use a 7300. Current antenna is a 40m HWEF, which is usable on 10, 12, 15, 17, 20 and 40. Would be nice to hit more WARC bands and get on 80m. I'm in a mild climate but a windy area!

[@2E0RXL]

Me on a personal level it would have to be a buddy hex beam or something like that on a 6m pole or a nice DXC Signature 12.4m should do the trick 80-2m

[@YllaStar95970]

Beverages for listening, moxon for DX.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

160m loaded vertical, 80m vertical, 40m 4-square, yagis as 60 feet (plus) for anything higher. AND dipoles for 160m, 80m and 40m for daytime / 500 mile chit-chat.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

.. *and* a ton of switchable beverages, a general purpose Loop On Ground and a DX Commander Classic in the corner to give me a baseline / alternative depending on propagation.

[@linuspoindexter106]

"Invisible" dog fence wire is insulated and pretty cheap. Available at your home improvement store.

[@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z]

Radio fence wire is not great for antennas, but radials by all means. The wire is made to be static (in ground or stapled to fences) , so it is not high strand count and will break over time with motion. That is from experience.

[@jeffgorman2221]

Could I use my dogs electric fence as a loop?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Sure. Just switch it off when in use!

[@SteveG4YTK]

Hi Cal advice please or scratch your head. I have had your DX C up for several years now. I never expected much on 10m especially when you look at its surrounding building very close by. Other bands are amazing and it never stops amazing me. I had a thought, never good I know, but i disconnected the 10m ele leaving the 20m 1/4 wave to become 10m 1/2 wave. Yes I had to press the auto tune on the internal FTDX10 and it tuned to nothing so far so good. Quickly tuned onto 4 EU beacons, reconnected 10 ele. B1 S5 B2 S5 B3 S5 B4 S3. Disconnected 10m ele B1 S6 B2 S6 B3 S7 B4 S4 on RX. So what is going off with the Far field plot on TX using the 20m 1/4w as 10m 1/2 wave ?. Is it safe or not, very interested on your thoughts.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

So you forced the 10m band onto only the 20m band? Or you had other elements connected too? If it was only the 20m band then you are now running a half-wave (approximately), using the ATU to soak up the high SWR.. If you had some of the other bands still connected - then SWR would only be about 6:1 or less but all the other elements would also be radiating..

[@SteveG4YTK]

@@DXCommanderHQ yes the other elements were connected the only element I disconnected was the 10m one. I thought the wiggles would only run up the 20m not the others. So the 20m 1/4 did not become 1/2 wave on 10. I told you I should not think lol.. Thanks for your time

[@DavidLopez-bz4rj]

Hi Callum! What can you tell about grounding loop antennas? There is a french station who grounds his horizontal loop through the ground connection of an UN-UN, and tells that his noise level dropped dramatically... I built A LOT of horizontal loops, 40,80,60,160... and never grounded anything... maybe the coax shield at the house entrance will do it? Thanks in advance.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

That's thew French for you! LOL No idea old friend.

[@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z]

Not Sure about grounding it but i will take a look at the books I have here for X antennas. Beverages you ground, but a loop... interesting.

[@DavidLopez-bz4rj]

@@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z Thanks, I have read a lot of literature about it, nothing clear about it. Safety regulations require grounding antennas, as usual.

[@j.p.thearmoredchef]

Can’t wait for the fuse antenna!😂

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Bang!

[@MIKROWAVE1]

It's all a British Plot!

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Haha!

[@Lifeindoors85]

I put an EFHW in my loft but have some issues with displacement current affecting the mains in the house, im to understand that a loop doesn't create any displacement, mainly use for RX but would like to TX on 40m and 10m occasionally a 4:1 balun and a loop does it need to be a specific total length?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

If your antenna is close to your house wiring, it WILL couple.. I know - I tried it many times. In the main, nothing much happened apart from the alarm, every TV, sound system and I had to reboot the fridge a few times LOL!!!

[@FromthehamshackwithNJ4Z]

There are a couple of formulas for a loop antenna, based on the impedance you want at the feed point. a 200ohm impedance (4:1 Balun) should be about 44meters (144ft) of wire, and will need to be trimmed to be useable depending height above ground and you ground.

[@ArduinoAlan]

I don't get that cutting itself to length concept. isn't the current on a dipole at the far end away from the feed point next to nothing?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes but extremely high voltage which can snap the wire. Mind you.. it has to be small diameter!

[@hillbillytarzan]

My problem is that I live in the Appalachian Mountains and my yard is probably 100’ x 100’ with power lines running over half of it. I have nothing but a steep hill with a lot of trees behind me, but a whole lot of it. I’m just running a 60’ EFLW with a 9:1 unun right now, in the yard at the back of my house. I haven’t had my license but for about 9 months, so I’m a novice with a general license, and everywhere I look, someone has a different idea. I would love to know what my best antenna option would be. I have acres behind me, but covered in trees and it’s pretty steep, but traversable

[@l.a.2646]

I live in Appalachian mountains as well I have a postage stamp yard too with 369 acres ( forrested) just 80 feet away but power lines on both sides . I use a 40 meter inverted V dipole. A 73' end fed with a 12' counterpoise 1:6 unun , and for receive I have a 60' wire 3' off the ground on my property line ( on tree trunks) with a 9:1 UNUN ( It can transmit too) so try as much as possible. I can't put up a vertical because if it fell, it would either hit a house or power lines. End fed antennas work better than I thought, just keep trying new things. 73 de N3TGY

[@DXCommanderHQ]

HillBilly... start with daytime 40m to cut your teeth into that 300 mile circumference you get on 40m with a low dipole.. Then maybe experiment with a 20m vertical home-brew. It's EASY to make..

[@l.a.2646]

@DXCommanderHQ I agree with Callum , at my old home I had a vertical, with radials on a 2" O.D. copper pipe pounded 6' into the ground ( we have great soil conductivity) and do the NVIS antenna for 40m ! What a fun band!

[@haraldlonn898]

I don't think tuning a antenna with RF will work. Where you want the wire to break is where you have no power. Now I can be wrong. Keep these videos going, you got my interest for radio back after 40+ years of silence.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Well, it so happens that John and I both know a very reliable person who did this.. It went "pop" at the very high voltage point.

[@dc5723]

How's about the typical lot size in Honolulu, Oahu, Hawaii - 464.52 SM (5,000 SF)?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

That's OK.. You can do most of that.. Your 40m loop can instead by a bend around halo for 40m..

[@hansolo989]

Dear DX Commander, What was the most important lesson you learned while studying for your technician license?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

In the UK, your Tech license is our Foundation (similar). New stuff I learned that I enjoyed was understanding (finally) Ohms Law and also what is SWR. I never quite got to grips with dB and that you can simple add dB together..

[@DavidCase-ov5uo]

If I put 8 cars in my garden, could I strap them together and make a great big ground plane?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Good idea! Think of the mag-mounts!

[@PatAutrey]

how large does the loop on the ground need to be to receive 80m and below? is a balun needed?

[@stargazer7644]

He has an entire video about it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHXGkp-qebp-pKs

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes.. You will need a balun. It's a binocular cored job.. Just Google "Loop On Ground" and you'll spot the original article.. Very fine.

[@DominicMazoch]

You cannot have too many ant. Ports on a rig.

[@Rubedo777]

Hello people 💙

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Hello!

[@JayN4GO]

Start from the beginning. Buy a house with trees and no restrictions. Small tower and small tribander. Loop and vertical for diversity. Hex beams are great antennas for city lots if the town nazis stay away. No reason to have only one antenna 😂

[@AnthonyvanHamond]

uhhh small garden? he's talking about 100 square meters (325ft square) thats not a small garden in my "book" I live in a 3 story single family home and my back garden is about half of that (and so are the gardens of most of my neighbours :-) )

[@DXCommanderHQ]

OK, you can still do this with half.. Bend your 40m dipole around like a halo.. You would need about 5m x 5m for that.. Or load it up with some coils.. You could go probably down to about 3-4m sq.

[@martinsmith2984]

FFS talk about hard sell...😂

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Have you seen my T Shirt?

[@martinsmith2984]

Over priced crap.

[@crazygolf]

What aload of rubbish. Show me where the 'average' garden size in the uk is 100Sqm and certainly very few are 10m long x 10m wide. Most i've seen (established houses) are long 10/12m and thin 4/6m so there is no way you can get your 40m wire loop in there. My last house was 10m long by 3m wide, that was a mid terrace. This channel seems to assume that everyone has loads of space for large antennas (yes 10/15m high is large) and have a tree where you can dangle a wire from. Not many trees in the gardens I see for sure! Most new builds are on average now 15/20sqm - tiny!

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I stopped reading after the first 4 words.

[@crazygolf]

@@DXCommanderHQ I stopped subscribing after the first few minutes - 🤦‍♂️

[@edcozart9916]

great stuff as usual guys de W9US