Perfect Normal Map Baking in Substance Painter

[@ferenckurucz8527]

Hi, can I please have the normalmapfix that you have separately pulled in?

[@HelmutKohlrabi]

This quite simple in Designer... I made a couple of graphs to do the map merging for averaged and non-averaged normals, AO and material ID dynamically masking off edges without much user input. The cleanest way I've seen to actually "bake" chamfered edges is through Modo by baking a chamfer geometry shader that works on the low poly (without projecting subdivided geometry) to a texture

[@bitbarrel1215]

Yes, it can be done in Substance Designer too. See the link below "original idea" in the description.

[@jonathandevach2226]

hello can you make a video on the automatic version or maybe release a download link for the old version used in this video?

[@luyiyt]

Is there another link to download the material for substance painter?

[@КириллРедько-з5б]

What generator you use?

[@bitbarrel1215]

It is a custom generator. The source is included.

[@humanbeing4223]

guys who use marmoset will face the same issues( smooth cage vs average normals ) because they do the same thing, the best way is to adjust the low poly model in the wrong places ( basically add more segments ) especially in the non horizontal bending where both software will face issues to build a correct cage with maximum distance . or use a custom cage and bake again in substance

[@dlinzp]

thank you! it is great stuff!

[@bitbarrel1215]

Glad to help. It should get even better (more automated) once Substance Painter supports more scripting features.

[@maxbolotin8185]

Thanks, really appreciate this.

[@bitbarrel1215]

Glad you like it :-)

[@TheCobasmira]

The documentation says that "If there is any high poly detail on the edge, the low poly version should have a chamfered edge instead of a hard edge.", but i cant see that your low poly`s edges are chamfered....

[@bitbarrel1215]

That is because there is no detail on the high poly edge in my example, so there is no need for that. See this video at 11:15 for more information: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXimY4tshsatrNU

[@TheCobasmira]

The script seems to be working but i cant get effect from it, normal map isnt changing...

[@bitbarrel1215]

The script only exports textures with the correct baking settings. You need to import them and apply them to the appropriate slots manually.

[@TheCobasmira]

Thats what im doing, when im tweaking the mask settings i can see edges are moving a little bit, but i cant get near to your results, not even close :(

[@bitbarrel1215]

Make sure you follow the steps in the manual exactly. The workflow is very picky. Miss one thing and it won't work.

[@gamingunlocked9947]

Something is not working for me and I cant understand what I am doing wrong. I downloaded the latest scripts and manual but I cant get to make it work correctly. The script seems to produce for me two bakes to use. One is the usual normal map and the other one is the masked. I went with the Normal Fix Auto. The borders of the masking appear correct. But the seams are baked onto the normal maps. Basically the only thing that the mask sliders seem to do is hide my normal instead of fixing the hard edges. So I am not really sure what is going on. I need help urgently for a project,

[@bitbarrel1215]

Try to use the manual normal mask (manual painting) instead of the automatic mask generator. I might not work correctly with the latest SP version either.

[@genericyoutubecommentnumbe1946]

sooo ... is it gone?

[@litote9]

I tried your updated smart material and could not get it to work. I followed the pdf document as best as I could and got to the stage of adding a correct looking mask to the mesh. However, when I set Enable Auto Mask back to ON, the mesh instantly turns completely black and it seems to completely mask any normal detail showing on the mesh. Am I missing a step?

[@bitbarrel1215]

The Auto Mask doesn't work with every mesh. If details are too close to hard edges, the auto mask algorithm fails. Personally I paint the masks manually now as that is often faster with the type of meshes I use. Does it work if you paint on the mask manually?

[@litote9]

The mask generated with Auto Mask: Off looks correct. But when I switch Auto Mask: ON as in your instructions, the whole mesh turns back. Do I have to turn it ON? Any chance of an updated video showing how to use it properly?

[@bitbarrel1215]

Auto Mask ON uses a different algorithm than Auto Mask OFF. When Auto Mask is OFF, it applies the mask around the UV islands and you have to adjust the mask width yourself. If you turn Auto Mask ON, adjusting the mask parameters has no effect because the mask generation is fully automatic in this case. If Auto Mask ON fails, there is nothing you can do but to switch it OFF. After you switch Auto Mask OFF, you need to adjust the mask parameters so the width and blur look correct.

[@StevieMacVFX]

Like the tut but I can't get the materials or the generator into Substance. When you drag & drop it just says Normal Fix 1_1.spsm" cannot be imported as a smart material. Do the files need to be in a specific place or folders etc?

[@bitbarrel1215]

I tried it again with two different machines and it works fine so I am not sure what is going wrong at your side. Be sure to unrar the file and drag and drop the .spsm file onto the smart materials shelf. Try to import a different smart material (from Substance Share for example) and see if that works. Also make sure you install the script because that automates the baking and exporting process.

[@Raider3DArt]

Thanks You for this :D

[@bitbarrel1215]

No problem :-)

[@kakasicica]

Which generator did you use? I can't get it to work in Substance 2019, but I can maybe recreate it?

[@bitbarrel1215]

It is a custom generator. The source is included so you might be able to build it from scratch again using the example.

[@vazak11]

Thanks a ton!

[@DJacKnifeAlpha]

Will you be doing an updated video for your 1.6 version? I can't seem to follow along with this being the older version :(

[@bitbarrel1215]

Sorry, I don't have time to make another video with the updated workflow. Allegorithmic is working on their own implementation for this, so this whole thing won't be necessary anymore soon.

[@DJacKnifeAlpha]

Bit Barrel Gotchya! Hopefully it's soon, because being able to mask out skews is super smart... And damn near essential!

[@petrohands2406]

This problem still possible in new versions ?Do i need to do that method with 2018.3

[@bitbarrel1215]

Sorry, I didn't try this method with any newer versions.

[@vinayarya2228]

Hi..I don't know why when I bake Normal and ao map it turns in to a fully black image .. plz help

[@bitbarrel1215]

That is because either the high res model is missing or it is not aligned with the low res model.

[@vinayarya2228]

Thnx for reply ...But in other software like xnormal and 3ds max it works fine with the same mesh

[@bitbarrel1215]

Maybe the transform is not zero'd. SP doesn't like that. I ran into the same issue before.

[@vinayarya2228]

Again thanx Let me try it ..

[@bitbarrel1215]

If you use Capital Letters, comma's (,) and points (.) to format your text, it is a lot better readable.

[@PietzG]

I tried this method but I made some modifications on the non-averaged normal on Quixel NDO to add some details. When I put all 3 normal togheter the result shown in 3d preview is perfect, but when I try to export all the texture the final normal doesn't have the details I had added before on the non-averaged normal. How can i solve this? thanks for help.

[@bitbarrel1215]

It probably has something to do with the export preset settings. You might want to create a new one and make sure you add the correct blended vs non-blended normal to the slot.

[@PietzG]

I'll try this as soon as possible! I let you know if it work :)

[@PietzG]

It worked!!! I selected "Unity 5" as preset and it worked perfectly! Thanks a lot!

[@Raider3DArt]

pls make new video about the last update 1.2 thanks

[@bitbarrel1215]

I won't make a new video until SP supports all the scripting features I need to automate everything. But you can find the modified workflow in the PDF manual.

[@dlinzp]

When I press Normal button it is write to me next: [Script] Cannot call method 'contains' of undefined. Also when I manually generates Mask map - Substance does not create black background. difusion is turned off. Version 2.2.0

[@bitbarrel1215]

The script only works with SP v1.3 and up. Sorry, I should have mentioned that. The black background can only be seen if you open the exported map in a 3rd party image viewer, not in SP.

[@TheCobasmira]

Isnt working for me either, doing exactly the same steps as shown but no result...(no errors). And using provided script gives an error - Cannot call method `contains` of undefined.

[@bitbarrel1215]

The script only works with Substance Painter v2.3 and up. Can you the steps as described in the PDF manual using SP v2.3? Open the exported normal maps and verify one of the normal maps has a black background. Also make sure the mask is set up correctly an the white lines on the UV edges are large enough.

[@TheCobasmira]

I did exactly as manual says, had a mask texture with black background, uv was fine. I repeated this tutorial several times, but no result. Using SP 2.2 btw.

[@bitbarrel1215]

Try with SP 2.3 using the script. It might be an export issue but when using the script it bypasses the default export settings.

[@TheCobasmira]

Yup, totally works in 2.3, thx a lot!

[@bitbarrel1215]

Great :-)

[@debilnypesdedinskysvaty1188]

Can you recommend some good way to convert high poly mesh to low. I do it up to now manually. I have tried simplygon and Pro optimizer in Max but I am still not satisfied with the results. Thanks.

[@IPpainting]

almost everybody is making their lps by hand

[@bitbarrel1215]

Personally I model exclusively in Autodesk Inventor, which is a CAD program. Making a low poly is easy, just delete all surface features. But if you want to do it in 3ds Max, I don't think there is a comparatively simple solution.

[@debilnypesdedinskysvaty1188]

Well it looks like I should look at Inventor. I always liked how clean and crisp the geometry looked there, mainly for engineering hard surface geometry.. Also the model operations there are pretty simple and fast comparing to standart 3ds max modelling... smoothing etc. But there was always problem to convert the model from inventor into Max, because it works with Nurbs surfaces I guess. I saw some of your other tutorial where you did some excellent convert of cockpit into game engine. So that is pretty good future I think.

[@IPpainting]

for efficient models in games you have to retopo your model when you come from a high res sculpt for example so doing it my hand is really it in that case what i do for my hard surface env for unreal is build the lp first so i have the perfect measurements to work in the modular system and then make a highpoly out of it with changes and floating geometry

[@bitbarrel1215]

Inventor will only be suitable if you have very specific modeling requirements: constraint based parametric design and hard surface only. You can make some organic shapes in Inventor but it is very limited.There are many pitfalls when converting CAD to 3ds Max, even with both programs owned by Autodesk. There are many bugs you have to deal with. However, I wrote a large script which solves all of these problems. You can find it at scriptspot. I think game asset creation currently is extremely convoluted. In 20 years time we are going to look back not believing the crap we had to go through. In the future there will be no need for a high low poly, or UV unwrapping. Only tiny surface details will be baked and mapping will be done with Ptex or similar. But for now we are stuck with it.

[@Scultronic]

Just bake your maps in Marmoset :P

[@bitbarrel1215]

Agreed. Allegorithmic is behind the curve on this one.

[@huseynkamaladdin9956]

Another way to solve this issue is to create tesellated version (geometry must be same) of the low poly and bake it instead of baking low poly. And after you've done baking process go to "Edit" and select "Project Configuration" option. Choose "Select" and select your low poly and click "OK" button. Works fine for me so wanted to share ^-^

[@rocktheelement]

How does that work?

[@huseynkamaladdin9956]

​@@rocktheelement Since your medium poly have enough topology you'll get desirable normal baking. I recommend you check the video below in order to get more information: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6esoJqqd6Z1aLM

[@rocktheelement]

Thanks!

[@喜洋洋灰大郎]

Great!

[@TheEmanuelvelez164]

THANK YOUUUUUUUUU

[@KevinKain7]

Didn't work for me..

[@bitbarrel1215]

What exactly didn't work? Did you get any errors? Can't import the smart material? Baking errors? Did you follow the steps in the PDF manual exactly? The workflow is a bit convoluted at the moment due to lack of scripting support. Miss one step and it won't work as expected. Please try again and follow each step very carefully.

[@ВікторКіт-з8с]

Cool

[@13Melmoth]

I did not get anything

[@bitbarrel1215]

Be sure to download the latest version of the script and the latest Substance Painter version. Then read the manual again. And again. Miss one step and it won't work. I need more scripting features in SP for it to be more user friendly. Sorry.

[@13Melmoth]

Bit Barrel Thank sorry

[@AnimaStudio88]

ahaha perfect for cube lol... great... anyone would bake cube?

[@conanthanoz19]

This is nice if you already know how to bake normals in Substance Painter. It's unclear what this video is adding to that knowledge base since there is never an instruction on the basics. Why isn't there a portion covering importing models? Skipping the most vital steps hurts the utility of the tutorial.

[@bitbarrel1215]

This tutorial is for advanced users only. Please check the allegorithmic youtube channel for beginner tutorials on baking.

[@rafaellourenco8437]

1.2x will help!

[@mskonicki2001]

I just did a video on this issue fix: 13 hours advanced training in substance: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5DFaqJoj9iFqZY

[@AttiasBarak]

"Perfect" lol.. It's the WORST way to bake textures and you can't even use it 99% of the time.

[@bitbarrel1215]

It is more perfect than a subdivided low poly because that will still have some skewing, albeit small. On top of that it will be worse for performance due to the added geometry. Of course mixing normal maps it will only work if the high poly does not have any detail near the low poly edges. There is no perfect solution for this. What is "better" really depends on the situation. The catchy title is just click bait for some, for others it works perfectly, like in my situation.

[@AttiasBarak]

SD is literally the perfect way to do that, It cover ALL of the baking problems, It's the fastest way and it will work with any mesh. Also it doesn't really effect performance, sure it will take a bit longer to render but it take way less time to setup, And for in-game performance it's the same since you remove the SD after you bake.

[@bitbarrel1215]

Any problems with UV mapping when baking in Substance Painter when using the subdivision technique? Does it solve wavy edges on cylinder shapes as well? I might give it a try.

[@AttiasBarak]

Yup it will solve everything.

[@bitbarrel1215]

Oh wait, I remember I looked into this before. It is also called a skewmesh. I decided not to use this method because when using Substance Painter, it requires additional steps in an external program to convert the World space normal map to a tangent space normal map. In Substance Designer you can do this in the program itself, but I need to use Substance Painter in the end. So it involved too many steps and the workflow in the video above (has since been updated and is now even faster) ended up being faster to use.

[@AnthonyFassolas]

In other words do your bakes anywhere but Substance Painter and Substance Designer cause they will all suck! thanks

[@bitbarrel1215]

To my knowledge every single baker out there has exactly the same problem.

[@Mehrdad995]

@@bitbarrel1215 I have never faced such issue in Max idk, maybe it's due to my low-poly mesh's shape never be that sharp!