Petain On Trial

[@joseph23ification]

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become villain.

[@mr.ramfan8100]

Didn't you spew this bullshit somewhere else?

[@joseph23ification]

@@mr.ramfan8100 why is that bullshit?

[@captainstag8189]

@@mr.ramfan8100 yeah why

[@1legomaster]

joseph23ification This is the perfect example of that quote.

[@eugeneleeseoul]

well said

[@BHuang92]

The marshal is a great man who died in 1925. Trouble is, he didn’t know it. -Charles De Gaulle

[@TheTomcatish]

Where did you find this quote ?

[@ryanv2324]

De gaulle was part of the group of fools that allowed France to fall. Petain picked up the scraps of what was left and did his best considering he was like 90

[@musicloverandclassicalmusi698]

@@ryanv2324 Actually, de Gaulle was a skilled armor commander who scored one of the few victories (though minor) during the fall of France. He later went to Britain on a diplomatic mission but France fell days after he left. He later led the Free French and helped in re-establishing the French Republic, free of German control. Petain on the other hand was also a good general, although during the German occupation of France he did implement anti-Jewish policies and basically did anything that pleased the Germans, so essentially he was a puppet, but for a guy reaching his 90s he wasn't too bad if you count out the Holocaust-related stuff. I have to partially disagree with your statement saying that de Gaulle was among the "group of fools" who allowed France to fall. De Gaulle was a government minister and could fall into that category, but I wouldn't say he was a fool or one who allowed France to fall.

[@didierroux1547]

@@ryanv2324 Not at all ! General de Gaulle saved the honor of France and not chose the dishonor of defeat that Petain and Weygand had chosen on May 28, 1940. In addition, you forget or hide that De Gaulle remained faithful to our British allies by respecting the Franco-English military alliance treaty of March 28, 1940. Treaty that dishonest soldiers, such as Pétain, Weygand, Darlan, Huntziger, Colson , Pujo, will betray without state of mind and without hesitation.

[@ryanv2324]

@@didierroux1547 ah yes easy to commend de Gaulle when he sat comfortably in Brittain. What good would he have done for France during the occupation years? Churchill's first move days after Dunkirk was to attack the French fleet in Algiers killing FRENCH sailors. People don't like to consider the alternative to what Petain did and just say that his collaboration was terrible. France would have lost all its colonies and had the entire country occupied by germans resulting in far more death and destruction. 90 year old Petain made the tough , mature decision to save French lives and homes by making peace.

[@theuberman7170]

I thought this guy ha died sometime after WWI. I'm shocked to learn that he was the same guy who controlled Vichy France.

[@misterm7225]

Guess what, so were the French ;)

[@АлекАндонов-ж3у]

Bro I was just reading about the Vichy France and found out that he was the leader. Man I thought he was a hero for France...

[@alexc7669]

He was a hero during WW1 but a vilain during WW2

[@polishrepublic5055]

@@АлекАндонов-ж3у he still is idiots

[@LightgreenLP]

@@АлекАндонов-ж3у France's president said that Petain was a hero and a good soldier (this was just a few years ago)

[@sanapadsense1999]

Petain is a complicated case to judge, hero of the first war and traitor of the second. as a french i have no judgment towards this man, and i can understand that a lot of people followed his decisions just because they trusted this hero he once was. Things are not that simple and everything is not all white or all black.

[@didierroux1547]

@Sanap Adsense No ! On the contrary, it's easy, petain was a notorious capitulator and defeatist of the first war.Also, as a Frenchman, I pass judgment on the comments that defend Petain, a capitulator, defeatist in 14-18, incompetent or even saboteur between 1920-1938, germanophile, the cowardly May 17, 1940 and again defeatist in June 17, 1940 then collaborator with the invading enemy October 1940

[@ryanv2324]

It shouldn't be written off that his actions in ww2 were evil as most think. you're right to say its not simple but just imagine if he didn't step in and ask for peace. France could have faced complete German occupation with the loss of their colonies and a guerrilla war that would kill many French and cause endless suffering while cities and homes are wiped out. only days following the evacuation of Dunkirk Churchill orders a French fleet in Algeria to be sunk killing many French and is really the true betrayal. Not saying he is a saint but I think he saved a lot of French lives in the end. Just something to consider

[@sirbebro7498]

@Didier Roux It is very foolish of you to call Pétain, who even in 1943 (EVEN at official meetings with german generals) was calling Germans Boches, a Germanophile; it is even more foolish of you to call him a defeatist in the first war, especially since he was one of those who did the most to win. Old French generals like Nivelle and Mangin called anyone who did not support the old tactics of aggressive offensives defeatists, while they themselves threw their infantry into bloodbathes such as Nivelle's infamous offensive. Pétain, on the other hand, valued the lives of his soldiers. In June 1940, he signed a treaty that saved France from the fate of Poland and saved lives of many Frenchmen. The trial of Pétain was one of the greatest disgraces for France in the twentieth century.

[@fowchiiiliedpuppiesdied]

No judgment for something as egregious as this, is cowardice disguised as smug, pseudo intellectual indifference. The French penchant for wetting themselves when faced with tangible consequences, speaks to the dysfunction of collective self absorption.

[@didierroux1547]

@@sirbebro7498 You are not educated all, in the history of the First World War Nivelle and Mangin are the saviors and winners of Verdun in 1916 and not Petain who twice in the short time he stayed in Verdun, Petain will present twice to his boss Joffre plans for the evacuation of Verdun. Joffre will reject the 1st plan and also the 2nd and right after that Joffre will take measures to quickly remove Pétain from the battlefield of Verdun. So Pétain was expelled from Verdun on April 30, 1916. How dare you compare the dishonorable armistice of June 22, 1940 to the fate of Poland? It is incomparable ! Pétain spared nothing at all, He was the gravedigger of France, Pétain on May 17, 1940 cowardly refused to fight without a fight and in addition, you hide the fact that Pétain will slavishly submit to Montoire on October 24, 1940, thus ceding the sovereignty of France to the nazi Hitler. And you dare to take that the trial of Pétain which was judged legally and fairly in July August 1945 was supposedly a pseudo disgrace while Petain illegally arrested, in 1940, the former Presidents of the Council Daladier, Reynaud, Blum, in despite their parliamentary immunity, General Gamelin as allegedly responsible for the defeat at Riom in 1942. Pétain also ordered the 1940 arrest of Interior Minister Mandel and former Minister of Education Jean Zay.These last two will be assassinated in 1944, by members of the Militia that Petain had created to reinforce the Gestapo and the SS. and you condone a traitor like petain ...... Go and lay flowers on oswald mosley's grave!

[@doguesrefoglu1974]

I always wonder if Petain didn't agree with nazis on surrender or anyone else did it instead of him, what would be the consequences for France and the World. He is called a traitor and was prosecuted for being traitor, but what if he didn't intervene, didn't agree with nazis to at least keep control of unoccupied lands? Tough question

[@rosesprog1722]

He was asked by the political class to take the job, he didn't volunteer much less take over in a coup. He served his country the best he could and saved who knows how many lives, a true hero betrayed by his own people. The French went nuts after the war, they saw collaborators everywhere.

[@joshuawillis602]

@@rosesprog1722 petain was a traitor to his nation

[@rosesprog1722]

@@joshuawillis602 He governed it in the most difficult time ever and he did his best, he couldn make miracles, he was pressured from both sides, he had to make some concessions to please the Germans but he never agreed to fight with them and when they got too close from his fleet he sank it like he said he would, he must have been torn constantly. During that time DeGaulle was in safety telling the resistance to fight on, making the Germans retaliate and who do you think had all the trouble?

[@joshuawillis602]

@@rosesprog1722 De Gaulle was a patriot that continued to fight and led the resistance

[@rosesprog1722]

@@joshuawillis602 DeGaulle wasn't fighting, he was telling others to do it causing trouble for Petain who had to deal with the angry Germans. Come on, De Gaulle was in Britain, in total safety.

[@GrimmaStadguard]

Petain is that kind of person you should love and praise but in a same time be just dissapointed in him...

[@abbevogler2619]

I tell you: 50% à 50%.

[@1111kila]

a tragic end for a national hero

[@arturchop4749]

Not really a hero but a traitor

[@arturchop4749]

Samuel Krummenacker yea ww1 he was legend but ya know *Vichy*

[@shadowthehedgehog3113]

You mispelled disgusting fascist traitor who should have gotten the firing squad. It is one thing to surrender. It is another to gleefully collaborate with the Nazis to hand over Jews, establish a fascist system at home, and work with Hitler more dutifully than their actual ally Italy.

[@reviewreviewer1]

He didn`t surrender unconditionally, he was hesitant about working with the Germans but if Churchill had accepted the peace proposals made by Rudolf Hess the whole of France would have been liberated earlier. He had little choice but to ally with the Nazis, besides Churchill allied with Stalin.

[@Aidenaman]

While yes a collaborate with the Axis he did so because he wanted to protect the French people in the fallen France

[@wheelman1324]

If it wasn’t him, it would be someone worse.

[@Namaryop]

*Could have been. I think he was just a figure but yes the result would have been the same or an extermination of the French people.

[@JoseSanchez-xj3xn]

I think Philippe Pétain was chosen for his dictatorial role because he was old and worn out. He was an old warrior, the oldest head of state in France to date. He lived through the horrors of two world wars and the strain is visible on his countenance. The Nazis held over a million prisoners of war over his head as collateral to ensure compliance. It didn't take long for senility to fully take him after his incarceration. I'm certain he was there to sign papers while younger men with more clairvoyance pulled his strings from the background. Consequently, I find his story more tragic than reprehensible.

[@lorrainemapper7000]

it was even more than 1 million, the germans had captured 2.2M french soldiers after france collapsed

[@TheGrenadier97]

Unfair. Pétain was in the line, and managed to save something after the turmoil of 1940.

[@joshuawillis602]

Der Alte he saved no one. He was a coward moron

[@stargazerspark4499]

says the coward moron behind a keyboard.

[@supervegeta2303]

78000 french jewish And thousands men of French resistance dead because of him

[@TyrSkyFatherOfTheGods]

Certainly not French Jews and others. He betrayed his nation, such a sad end to what would otherwise have been an heroic career.

[@lewjames6688]

@@supervegeta2303 True that. Many tortured to death.

[@fahoodie1852]

0:24 “on charges of fucking against the internal security of his country”

[@SyndicateSuperman]

Damn that's funny

[@australianman8103]

I just noticed wtf

[@neaorin]

Somebody had to play the role Petain did (leading a defeated, occupied nation). He should have not received a death sentence. At least it got commuted in the end by de Gaulle. Meanwhile those who lost the war in 1940 got away with it, and some even re-entered politics during the fourth Republic.

[@joshuawillis602]

Nobody needed to play petain role. He was a traitor

[@neaorin]

@@joshuawillis602 yeah, somebody needed to. France was a defeated nation, they needed to have somebody lead it, and if no Frenchman volunteered, the Germans would have ruled it directly instead. Like the General Government in Poland, check out how that went for the Polish people.

[@joshuawillis602]

@@neaorin they weren’t defeated. They still could’ve fought. They had the people and the assets. Poland had barley anything left to fight with. Big difference. Petain was not a leader he was a puppet. Nobody needed to do what he did. The leadership of France surrendered too early.

[@neaorin]

@@joshuawillis602 Yeah, they were done. It was pretty obvious to them at the time but I guess armchair generals with no skin in the game might feel differently 80 years later

[@joshuawillis602]

@@neaorin no they weren’t. I just told you why. I’m not repeating myself.

[@HavokBlackfyre]

How the mighty have fallen

[@PtolemyJones]

I'm guessing ' but I thought they were gonna win' isn't much of a defense.

[@leonardo3ro310]

What does the glory serve when you are dead?

[@AlbertBasedman]

@@leonardo3ro310 "i know i'll lose my glory, but i'll limit the suffering of my country", a quote from Philippe

[@skyline9683]

Is is just me or does he look sexy on the hoi4 portrait?

[@northatlanticcommonwealth1188]

AstroPixel just you

[@hanjizoe1]

Yeah he does and I also protect him as Fasicst USA and Germany im like don't touch my Petain

[@sharkronical]

Kaiserreich's portrait tho.. MMMM No homo

[@chadofthexxthcentury4741]

I mean...he's French so yeah

[@fahoodie1852]

Bro?

[@darkfool2000]

You can call him a traitor, but ultimately his actions saved the lives of the French people. By the time he seized power, the French had lost, and by the time the war was over, France got out of it relatively unscathed, in terms of casualties per capita, France was similar to the UK or Italy. Countries like Czechoslovakia or Greece lost more (in percentage terms) of its population than France did. It was certainly very humiliating for France, but another victory as WW1 would have meant 3 times as many french dead at least, If you compare it to the fate of complicit Austria or the least harmed part of the Soviet Union (Moldova) you would get 4 or 5 times as many deaths. I suppose it's necessary for the french to hate Petain, but that's similar something to a noble lie. If the French can blame their defeat on traitors like Petain rather than themselves it helps them move past it. The problem with France leading up to both world wars was that the French never had enough children and their population grew too slowly relative to the rest of Europe. The french population from 1800 to 1900 only grew by 45%. The population of the British isles in the same period grew by 250%. France went from having The population of the Russian empire by 380%, even in countries in obvious decline like Spain the population grew more (by 76%). For all the talk about France having a long history of great childcare, I don't think the evidence supports it.

[@raghavkaushish2978]

He tried to save lives but collaborated with nazis, fought against allies, sentenced de gaulle to death, sent 75000 jews to concentration camps (though nazi did not even ask for the jews), brought shame on Frenchmen. His regime was no less than Ustaše regime (a slave state but ideologies just like master's)

[@darkfool2000]

@@raghavkaushish2978 The french brought the shame on themselves by not having enough kids. France had triple the population of the British isles in 1800, but by the time of world war 1, they were roughly the same size. Germany for its part had 60% more population than France in 1914. French population growth was pathetic in 1800s. While the population of europe was more than doubling, France's population grew by at most 33%. For all the talk of French romance, all of the other major powers surpassed France in population growth.

[@raghavkaushish2978]

​@@darkfool2000 Brother wars are not fought on size of population, Israel crushed its enemies almost four times its size in 6 days, no doubt french authorities were lazy but blaming frenchmen for loss in war is absolutely wrong. Vichy regime bought shame on france by forming a collaborative government. De Gaulle requested Reynaud to form a government in exile and keep fighting from colonies, but Petain, with the help of his position, first persuaded Reynaud to resist British-Franco Union and also forced him to resign so he could assume power. He was nothing but power hungry dog.

[@darkfool2000]

@@raghavkaushish2978 Wars are fought on the size of population. One of the reasons Germany steered towards world war 1 was because Russia's population was growing so quickly. Its population had more than tripled between 1800 and 1900. Israel's six day war was an exception, not a rule, because the Arabs were so incompetent. France could not hope to have the Germans be that incompetent in the world wars. Why not blame the French for the French losing? It was the french who lost. The french had changed their government so many times over the century prior, so it's not like you could say that they didn't have a choice in their leadership. I don't deny that the Vichy regime brought shame, but the greater shame was the comparatively low french birth rate of that era, there wasn't a single part of Europe with a lower birth rate in that period, not even Ireland during its great famine had a lower birth rate. It's downright pathetic.

[@raghavkaushish2978]

​@@darkfool2000 Brother Afghans defeated not only Brits, but also Mighty communists and high tech capitalists. I just want to say that giving births does not make country strong, Japan was far stronger than China in WW2. Today my country struggles with high birth rates, it is not making my country strong but rather weak. All I mean to say is that Frenchmen were not the cause for the defeat of France, unstable fourth republic and people like Petain were. Even England would have capitulated if people like Halifax and JFK's father would have succeeded in their plans in Italy to secure an armistice.

[@cult8625]

Marechal, nous voila

[@jeanpierreragequit1726]

ou pas

[@alvarotolentino1589]

I mean, he bet that Germany would win WWII, he did what he thought would save France from absolute domination

[@joshuawillis602]

He betrayed his nation

[@RtRt-qh9hq]

@@joshuawillis602 As everyone who followed him did...... but he’s the only one judged?

[@lorrainemapper7000]

@@RtRt-qh9hq people followed him not because they thought the same as him, but because they thought following the hero of verdun was a good choice

[@RtRt-qh9hq]

@@lorrainemapper7000 Petain was not the only decision maker. A government is not only made up of one man.

[@spamdendunce1587]

Pretty good shape who's 89, especially for the time

[@denizbluemusic]

not cognitively tho

[@regalbien6058]

The man who save my country twice. Vive le maréchal Pétain.

[@poussinmignon3193]

Pauvre fou

[@tylerpape4382]

Travail, Famille, et Patrie ! Vive le Maréchal !

[@alexsilvapereira3800]

Tyler Pape you is nazi and facism

[@couldbeanybody2508]

Maréchal, Maréchal nous voila!

[@Anton-kl5xq]

Pétain Traître à son pays. Vive la France et vive la résistance française et la Normandie Neman.

[@lepatriote2847]

Bordel le nombre de lâches qui supporte le maréchal putain ça fait mal au coeur de voir ça

[@lorrainemapper7000]

ta gueule le collabo

[@cent7169]

Well yes his case was indeed complicated and some how similar to our 3rd President Jose Laurel When the Japanese Empire occupied the Phillipine in the 2nd World War, Pres. Jose Laurel had to collaborate with the Japanese or else the Japanese would murder much of our citizens Unfortunately, the Japanese still made multiple war crimes but it would've been worst if President Laurel refuse to surrender and collaborate with the Japanese Lastly, President Laurel even made secret meetings inside the Presidential Palace with the Filipino resistance Up to this day, just like Philippe Petain, it is still a debate whether President Laurel is a Hero or a Traitor/Collaborator For me, both were in difficult situations

[@zackdeew9757]

it juzt politician being politician

[@ahmadhassan74]

He only wanted peace

[@jeanpierreragequit1726]

???

[@joshuawillis602]

Ahmad Hassan being an aggressive country’s bitch puppet is not peace

[@doodlydoo3935]

@Hissam Ullah I think he had no choice during that time? Idk

[@SyndicateSuperman]

He willingly bent over and took it dry from the Germans. His government voluntarily sent its own citizens to death camps.

[@futuristica1710]

He was a traitor.

Os Poloneses depois da Guerra foram entregues pelos aliados a Stalin, pergunta, como confiar nos aliados depois da guerra, como a França poderia confiar em promessas?

[@Supermariocrosser]

Good or bad, petain is a conservative and followed his beliefs ever since wwi

[@muricanpepe3100]

Poor guy was just trying to save his and nation.

[@joshuawillis602]

He saved nothing he betrayed his nation

[@muricanpepe3100]

@@joshuawillis602 the only reason Petain collaborated with Germany was Germany was holding about 1.8 million French soldiers hostage. He single handedly saved those men by choosing to stay with Germany. He was a hero who sacrificed his own glory and knowing that he would be viewed as a traitor to save those men. Much better than De Gaulle who had people in the Vichy Government executed and still aided with Britain after they killed 1300 French sailors at Mers-el-Kébir.

[@joshuawillis602]

@@muricanpepe3100 petain rounded up Jewish French citizens and had them killed. He’s a traitor. De Gaulle was a patriot who freed his nation and people from the nazis tyranny

[@RtRt-qh9hq]

@@joshuawillis602 Petain couldn’t have collaborated if people didn’t followed his words. He’s not the only fautive.

[@muricanpepe3100]

@@joshuawillis602 sorry for the late response btw. But about 75,000 Jews were deported from France to the Germans. Which I will be the first to say is a lot and is very sad, but that does not hold a candle to the 1.8 million French soldiers who would’ve been murdered if they didn’t. And frankly many of those men were French born Catholics who lived in France their whole life. And many of those Jews were refugees who only recently came to France. So it’s understandable to see why they saved the lives of 1.8 million rather than 75,000. Also do some research on the Dégradation nationale, Épuration légale, and the épuration sauvage. After De Gaulle took control of mainland France there were according to the French Minister of the Interior 105,000 French people executed for collaborating with Vichy France and the Germans. And because of the Dégradation nationale 50,000 French People lost their civil rights and became second class citizens.

[@alexandratheavenger3436]

This was total injustice, Petain was innocent. He was 1 of the greatest generals in French history.

[@POPE_FRANC1S]

What he did in ww1 doesn't make him automatically innocent

[@villanovakid84]

I totally agree. He was the best general from WW1. He was railroaded at his trial by Marxists. He should be buried with his troops at Verdun.

[@ChimpRiot]

Did Pétain still order the scuttling of the French fleet at Toulon in 1942?

[@Crosmando]

Most of the French military in that time was extremely right-wing and actually hated the French Republic more than the Nazis, this is why so many French divisions surrendered so quickly, their commanders and officers actually liked the Germans and would of have preferred to sent to the East to fight the communists.

[@RtRt-qh9hq]

The Germans were left wing socialists

[@Crosmando]

@@RtRt-qh9hq No.

[@RtRt-qh9hq]

@@Crosmando Except they were

[@michaelmarsden1748]

@@RtRt-qh9hq they weren’t

[@biggore8338]

@@RtRt-qh9hq they were centrist, and that's stupid to complain about this bullshit here, it's not r/politicalcompassmemes

[@g.barbouze3338]

Vive le Maréchal !

[@mud2479]

No. Vive l'empereur!

[@semsemeini7905]

Il est mort cretin.

[@markghazal3035]

You support a Nazi collaborator who betrayed his own country. Wow. You're sick.

[@iAlexSpritesify]

He was a hero in WW1 so stfu, what you would do mantain control of part of the country and colaborate with the nazis or run away and so the nazis would annexed all france ?

[@loko-ye4wb]

De Gaul went to exile so he could restore france all togheter, and with the help of the allied he did. What the hell are they teaching you people this days?????

[@micb1232]

Where did you find this footage of biden?

[@joshuawillis602]

*trump

[@Profkol0rado]

​@@joshuawillis602trump can at least think better than biden

[@joshuawillis602]

@@Profkol0rado no because trump doesn’t think at all

[@maxitrodlgd9638]

Maréchal, nous voilà ! Vive le Maréchal Pétain, héro et sauveur de la France !

[@medicoonline15]

Why was he allowed to wear his military condecoration?

[@couldbeanybody2508]

Because he was a fucking hero that stopped France from falling??????

[@joshuawillis602]

Could Be Anybody in what dimension?

[@sovietlesley]

@@joshuawillis602 In WW1.

[@abdurrahmanqureshi3030]

Maybe you should read a book about World War 1? Did you know that war existed?

[@medicoonline15]

@@abdurrahmanqureshi3030 he dropped this war in the garbage. I know about the two Wars better than you.

[@lionpardwolfiefox1338]

This man certainly improved the living conditions of the "Poilus" (the nickname given to French soldiers during the First World War) by reducing unnecessary assaults and creating the Sacred Way... But he betrayed his country and its citizens: he offered France to Germany on a silver platter, is responsible for the Rafle du Vel d'Hiv (mass arrest of Jews before their deportation); he created the French Militia to facilitate arrests, collaborated with Germany and created a dictatorship close to Italian fascism. So even if he was a hero at first it will never erase this act, as Charles de Gaulle said "States have no friends, only interests."

[@sir.muffiniii7011]

I believe that Philipe petain was a great man, who died in 1925, the man who came after was not the true petain, but a monster with complete lack of human life, that wasn’t petain, that was a monster…

[@POPE_FRANC1S]

Except the fact that it was the same person

[@MiroMakhno]

For me, i think Petain was just an old man who made the wrong decision at the wrong time. Even if he was a traitor to the republic, we can't deny his actions in ww1.

[@JamesRichards-mj9kw]

How was it the wrong decision?

[@MiroMakhno]

@@JamesRichards-mj9kw It was the wrong decision to accept all power alone at his old age and to collaborate so much with Germany (jew execution and deportation, Résistance's persecution, STO, giving Hitler more men by creating militia and SS divisions etc...) But i agree that he had no other choice than surrendering in 1940, we should more put the blame on the french generals who didn't believed in an attack through the Ardennes...

[@JamesRichards-mj9kw]

@@MiroMakhno That was Laval.

[@MiroMakhno]

@@JamesRichards-mj9kw Laval was his right hand man, he really took power by 1942

[@JamesRichards-mj9kw]

@@MiroMakhno Petain was a figurehead. Petain hated Laval.

[@iDeathMaximuMII]

The Rise & Fall of Marshal Petain (1856-1951) The Lion of Verdun Savior of the Army during the 1917 Revolt One of the men that won the Great War Then as an Old man who was born during the days of Napoleon III, at age 84 he made the decision to Surrender & collaborate with the Germans. His deputy Pierre Laval was more sinister than he was & probably did most of the work the Nazi’s asked the French to do from 1940-1944 The Hero of France became the Enemy of his own people & he died in a prison cell at the age of 95 What a sad & tragic end for a former Hero

[@didierroux1547]

@DeathMaximusMil The lowering & Fall of Petain (1856-1951) The Capitular of Verdun (1916) The very repressive of the Army which demands 600 death sentences from the French Government in 1917 One of the men who won the Great War One of the men who nearly lost us the war In 1916 he asked twice to evacuate Verdun In March 1928 Petain, panicked, came to Paris to tell the President of the Republic "You and the whole government must evacuate Paris. Deposed on March 26, 1918 of his title of Generalissimo for the benefit of General Ferdinand Foch. The real winner in the year 1918 of the war. Non petain was as sinister as Laval. From July 1940 he began to write the future statute of the Jews which appeared in October 1940 (discriminatory laws) Laval never participated in this ! This French traitor, who betrayed his government, betrayed his country, and betrayed the Republic, who was a zealous servant of the Nazis, was justly and legally judged in July and August 1945, condemned to death, he too generously benefited from a grace of General De Gaulle. Pétain approved De Gaulle's death sentence on August 2, 1940. Also, Pétain delivered plenty of French to the Nazis, so Pétain had blood on his hands. It is perfectly normal and just that Pétain was stripped of his titles of marshal and academician on August 15, 1945, this was legally notified to him during his lifetime, as well as to his three lawyers (Payen, Lemaire, Isorni)

[@SowerValler]

Born a hero, died a traitor.

[@ColesGingy]

Born a hero, died a hero.

[@johnmaddenforsmash8993]

While not making the right choice in the eyes of history, Petain only did what he thought was best for the french state, and her people.

[@rosesprog1722]

What history doesn't say is that he was asked by the political class to take that difficult task, he was retired, he did not volunteer, after the war they simply betrayed him.

[@joshuawillis602]

@@rosesprog1722 he betrayed his nation

[@rosesprog1722]

@@joshuawillis602 He governed it in the most difficult time ever and he did his best, he couldn make miracles, he was pressured from both sides, he had to make some concessions to please the Germans but he never agreed to fight with them and when they got too close from his fleet he sank it like he said he would, he must have been torn constantly. During that time DeGaulle was in safety telling the resistance to fight on, making the Germans retaliate and who do you think had all the trouble?

[@joshuawillis602]

@@rosesprog1722 you’re just making excuses. Petain was a traitorous collaborator plain and simple. De Gaulle continued to resist and led the resistance

[@rosesprog1722]

@@joshuawillis602 HE HAD TO COLLABORATE WITH THE GERMANS, THAT WAS HIS JOB.

[@theodorsebastian4272]

Napoleon III surrender and the French people topple him,Petain surrender and the French people call him a traitor.Would the French people rather that petain do the same kind of Partisan warfare that was crushed in 1871 with enormous cost of French lives?

[@lorrainemapper7000]

pétain used his great popularity to sell france's ass to germany and humiliate it, by not deciding to collaborate with the germans in 1940, a lot of french people could have rallied to his cause and make the french resistance even more of a pain than it already was during the war, also by delaying french collapse pétain could have allowed the remnants of the french army to escape overseas to africa or england and prevent too much french soldiers from being captured, i could name more things he could have done but its unecessary, pétain was a traitor and will always be

[@thekingshussar1808]

Exactly. There's a difference between being traitor against government or against the nation. Petain saved millions of French lives for the country to live in exchange of surrendering. Plus he was still adamant that he would never have French soldiers fight alongside the Germans up in the end. Even the first Napoleon had to capitulate to save France from being destroyed by the Russians who promised revenge for Moscow, yet many still praise him.

[@beasttowers392]

Vive Petain

[@user-qs2nr3ee6l]

Fukin traitor

[@beasttowers392]

@@user-qs2nr3ee6l hahahahahaha

[@michaelsladnick5482]

He was a coward.

[@beasttowers392]

@@michaelsladnick5482 the only coward was Vichy

[@michaelsladnick5482]

@@beasttowers392 he wanted France to surrender as soon as the fighting started - he was also a defeatist in WWI but didn't have any political influence at that time - and totally fritted away France's military advantages and stifled all innovation as head of the armed forces from 1920-35.

[@Austerlitz-xj7fm]

A hero who saved his nation in two World Wars.

[@eduardosolisgarcia61]

Sad but true

[@joshuawillis602]

He is no hero. He’s a traitor

[@Austerlitz-xj7fm]

@@joshuawillis602 No, he was a hero, the real traitors are the Zionist puppets ruling France today.

[@joshuawillis602]

@@Austerlitz-xj7fm no he was a traitor puppet of Nazi Germany. You’re an idiot

[@lynneleeluckdowsing6654]

When we place self-interest above the trust placed in us....

[@JamesRichards-mj9kw]

Pierre Laval should have been given a fair trial, as Petain was.

[@KhrisIvanov]

We, the Americans, fought on the wrong side.

[@algerianprophet9654]

Yes, you did.

[@algerianprophet9654]

@@jonas8574 lol, another troll.

[@mr.ramfan8100]

Blow that imbecile crap right out your asshole, if you know which end is which...

[@SaintJust1214]

why are you all fascists?

[@OmegaTrooper]

@@jonas8574 found the russian trollbot

[@leszekszczepaniak6237]

Kolaboration,use french train for send people to Germany camp,work for Nazi army ,be in french Nazi Armi I warszau 1944, denunciation people for gestapo ,Nazi and get money for that ,that is french history and people ,

[@Upliftmofo89]

What could he have done the battle was lost he couldn't do what de Gaulle did and run away

[@joshuawillis602]

De Gaulle was a patriot to his nation and continued to fight. Petain was a puppet

[@rosesprog1722]

@@joshuawillis602 De Gaulle ran off to England, Petain was at the front, de Gaulle was telling the French to fight the Germans no matter the consequences, Petain dealt with the consequences, it's easy to tell people to fight when you're in safety at a distance, Petain saved France and so many French people, he did not collaborate with Hitler, he confronted him.

[@joshuawillis602]

@@rosesprog1722 keep lying to yourself. Petain was a traitorous collaborator who got French people killed. Hitler owned him. De Gaulle was a patriot that fought for French independence and French honor. He led the French resistance against the German occupiers

[@rosesprog1722]

@@joshuawillis602 The French resistance was pretty much inexistant until the war ended, then suddenly everyone became a self proclaimed hero. De Gaulle was in England talking on the radio, Petain was on the field dealing with the difficulties of the German occupation. De Gaulle also spent the first world war in a German camp, comfortable while others were dying on the field, he hardly fought in both wars.

[@joshuawillis602]

@@rosesprog1722 you don’t know shit about history I’m not gonna further waste time with you

[@kombarov7003]

Meanwhile the hero hiding in london

[@joshuawillis602]

De Gaulle was a hero who kept fighting against those nazi assholes

[@ryanv2324]

@@joshuawillis602 not a hero

[@basedkaiser5352]

De Gaulle was a hero. His division was one of the only French divisions to defeat and take German prisoners during the Battle of France. He only fled because he had to. This is something that is conveniently left out. De Gaulle personally commanded his troops on the battlefield and was very successful.

[@basedkaiser5352]

@@kms_scharnhorst You don’t know wtf you’re talking about.

[@joshuawillis602]

@@kms_scharnhorst you’re an ignorant child

[@didierroux1547]

Petain betrayed France by making a coup in 1940, thanks to his legend of pseudo winner of Verdun what he was never he remained only 2 months in Verdun and the real winner and savior of Verdun was General Robert Nivelle, then from 1940 to 1944 he collaborated with the Germans. He was tried by the High Court of Justice and sentenced to death, then pardoned, but also condemned to national indignity and was stripped of his title of Marshal (disgraced) August 15, 1945.

[@Konstantinos1404]

That is extremely false, verdun was won because of petain mostly. Nivelle as proven later was a terrible general.

[@joshuawillis602]

KonSta he’s right

[@didierroux1547]

@Konsta You're the liar you do not bring any evidence or references Unfortunately for you in the memory of Marshal Joffre it is confirmed that General Robert Nivelle is the true savior and winners of Verdun. That is why he was appointed Supreme Commander immediately after that.

[@didierroux1547]

Joshua Willis KonSta is extremely wrong look my answer to him

[@joshuawillis602]

Didier Roux no I said you were right not him

[@emmachavarria9361]

Trial Is Not The ANSWER.

[@scrapyarddawgs7769]

0.55 seconds was that zz top

[@meddaho339]

Maréchal phillippe Pétain héros de la grande guerre 1914 - 1918

[@doliniplanini2260]

great man. RIP

[@joshuawillis602]

Traitor

[@bumarangnebula2589]

Now France is a African and Muslim Colony.

[@JamesRichards-mj9kw]

@@bumarangnebula2589 Due to World War II.

[@bumarangnebula2589]

@@JamesRichards-mj9kw Attacking Germany in 1870 out of hurt pride had been a grave mistake. It cost France its demographic power. After all, it was a Frenchman who said demography is destiny. No quote I know is truer than this

[@JamesRichards-mj9kw]

@@bumarangnebula2589 The UK and France started two world wars because they could not stand being surpassed by Germany.

[@joebrandon2628]

He was a DARK KNIGHT

[@fowchiiiliedpuppiesdied]

Our Joe Biden.

[@joshuawillis602]

False

[@Ban10DelaPunch]

Great french hero

[@joshuawillis602]

Traitor

[@striker8795]

@@joshuawillis602 Stfu it's wrong. He's a savior

[@joshuawillis602]

@@striker8795 he’s a traitor.

[@striker8795]

@@joshuawillis602 The traitor is De Gaulle, he hide behind an island while Petain saved France

[@joshuawillis602]

@@striker8795 no De Gaulle was a patriotic hero who fought to free his nation. Petain was a puppet traitor

[@gregsky5690]

A Villain and a treator

[@elkheyou4061]

Maréchal, nous voilà !

[@Schoolboyfrm5th]

From hero to nothing

[@ryanv2324]

HERO OF VERDUN AND SAVIOR OF FRANCE

[@joshuawillis602]

He was a villain and traitor to his nation

[@ryanv2324]

@@joshuawillis602 So you would have proffered the French commit to total guerrilla war in France and all the death and destruction along with that than to make a mature admission that they were fairly beaten in mainland France and request peace? People have no idea how much worse it could have been for the French without Petain....

[@joshuawillis602]

@@ryanv2324 they could’ve fought. Petain could’ve resisted yes there would be casualties but that’s war. Also petain thought France lost and voluntarily gave up half his own country to the invaders. He thought Germany would remain in control forever and was completely ok with betraying his nation to foreign aggressors. He’s a traitorous rat

[@ryanv2324]

@@joshuawillis602 Any military expert could assess France's situation when their forces in the north of the Maginot line were cut off and all would come to the same conclusion that the rest of France would have fallen in a few weeks with little chance of evacuation. Why allow pointless losses in the hundreds of thousands when you can end it now and save peoples lives and the part of France unoccupied yet.

[@joshuawillis602]

@@ryanv2324 petain saved no one he rounded up tons of his own countrymen and got them killed