Peter Principle: When People Get Promoted Into Maximum Incompetence

The Peter Principle argues that people who have success in big hierarchical organizations are promoted until they reach their own "level of incompetence”. Here they are often stuck for life.
Let's look at the story about David and Diana, two graduates, who first met at a sales training. They were so proud to have gotten a job in which they could actually help people. Little did they know, that they had joined one of the most dangerous organizations in modern America.
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Sources:
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[@sprouts]

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[@gwine9087]

I have seen this proven, time and time again. But, there was, also, the "reverse Peter principle" that said that people who were extremely good at their jobs are never promoted because they are too valuable where they are.

[@anifan98]

Scott Adams called it "The Dilbert Principle" after the shenanigans of the pointy haired boss in his comics.

[@BoltRM]

Multiple co-workers I know, have actually been TOLD BY THEIR BOSS that was the reason for not getting promoted.

[@YeshuaIsTheTruth]

@@BoltRM I'd start doing a slightly worse job and then ask for a promotion.

[@medler2110]

I've also known people who get promoted out of harms way. However being good at a job, lets say a sales job or technical job, doesn't mean you'll be a good manager, it requires different skills, so not promoting people who are good at their job might be good for the company, but can demotivate the worker, who wants higher wages and to build their career. In the late 90's I worked in the IT department of an Insurance and finance company, they realised they had good programmers, who deserved to be promoted, but this would mean they would lose a good person in the role of a programmer and, through years of experience, they knew they might not be a good manager, so they they introduced a promotion ladder for those programmers who wished to stay in a technical role.

[@royrowland5763]

I thought I was the victim of a reverse Peter principle with a former employer. Turned out it was actually the Dunning-Kruger effect. I thought I was great, but I sucked.

[@NewbyTon]

Moral of the story: ask for a raise not a promotion

[@soulmate805]

Newby Ton Only get promoted to the position that you are competent with.

[@deantan4080]

Amen

[@JaimeWarlock]

Some tech companies actually have special titles for people that need to be recognized, but not promoted. Kind of like "Legendary Engineer". Give him a great salary and let him just keep doing his job, not trying to manage people (which he might be terrible at). I worked at a place that had an engineer like that. He ignored management, hid in his corner, and just did engineering stuff. If he had a problem, he went straight to the president.

[@DanielK1213th]

nobody important you should go see a doctor

I dont buy this rationale, I think high functioning individuals are high functioning at almost all levels of life. Sales people are usually soulless devils to begin with but they probably think they already know better so dont push themselves to learn more because they already think they know the most. This is just a hit piece. Perdue did make a huge mistake but it wasnt mismanaged they knew exactly what they were doing.

[@czos9239]

You're too good at what you do. Let's move you somewhere you have no experience. That's a plan!

[@meidrop6865]

Its sad but its true

[@jamesdunkerson2908]

And provide you with no training on your new role.

[@panzer_TZ]

The problem is that the only way to get to a decent increase in salary after a certain point is management, so the only way to reward employees is promotion. If you stay as someone who is ground-level, your salary potential is probably going to be severely capped. Also, humans have egos. I doubt many people would be okay with their coworker becoming their boss and/or rising to the top, even if they are paid same.

[@jojoUK120]

ezekiel1hen yes the problem is not paying non-management enough to live on. In my sector nobody wants to stop working ground-level with clients, it’s the most rewarding and fulfilling role and every day is different. But just can’t raise a family on the wage. So all the good staff are leaving or miserably shuffling papers and only idiots left dealing with clients. Quality of service is history, places closing down everywhere.

[@brandonanderson225]

@@jamesdunkerson2908 11

[@T1Oracle]

The fallacy here is the idea that management is the highest level of competence rather than a different skill set. Management gets too much focus and too much financial priority. Businesses need fewer managers and more doers. Also, the real promotion is giving people larger scale projects and having them mentor less experienced employees. Eventually they may outgrow the company, but as long as they train people before they go, the company wins. Give them a good recommendation and let them go.

[@Rollin8.0]

1000% this.

[@fahmiibrahim3477]

Damn man what you do to get that insight? Managerial more about leadership so its not something that can effectively fit on everyone.

[@Lessenjr]

Wish you worked for my company.

[@ronclass1782]

for reals

[@tychoMX]

I'd say real promotion is asking the good-performing employee about their aspirations and career goals - if they are compatible with the organization, make them happen. Example: one of my best (if not my best) supervisors was getting a bit burnt out by the typical management issues (people handling, meeting corporate targets, etc.). He was outstanding, though, so he was asked what he wanted to do. They essentially let him become a consultant for one of our "clients" for about a year, paid by the original organization. As a result the client got stronger, he got a fresh challenge, and came back with a fresh perspective on things and the job in general. But all this is because they asked him instead of just giving him something his managers think is what he wanted. In other words: if you have a good employee ask him/her what he wants, and see if it is viable and compatible with your goals, and make things happen. My dad was an entrepreneur and he said he never let a good candidate go even if he had to create a new job for that set of abilities.

[@tattmoon1]

Totally agree with this. Management is a skill entirely of it's own and a good manager can make for a great work environment while a bad one can make everyone miserable.

[@tnk4me4]

A so this is how Japan's minister of cyber security didn't know what a USB was and couldn't tell the difference between an apple mac and PC.

[@williamadiputra2850]

What the.... Even some 10 year olds know better damn

[@evaahh9584]

Tnk4me technically a mac is a PC. The only difference is the operating system.

[@tnk4me4]

@@evaahh9584 and the format of the hard drives. But what I meant to say was that he didn't know the difference between mac os, windows and linux.

[@mapachem4828]

Wow that was awesome! He even acknowledge that time he didnt even use a computer on years right?

[@hepthegreat4005]

Yeah, that part was hilarious.

[@davecullins1606]

That's why I don't ever want to become a leader - I just want to become an expert. I still do the same types of tasks as always, they're just harder now (until I eventually master those too).

[@MrHaighahatta]

Definition of an "expert": "x" is an unknown quantity while a "spurt" is a little drip under pressure. Never claim "expertise;" always claim to be a learner.

[@davecullins1606]

@@MrHaighahatta As I said by becoming an expert: I want to become better. When that gets too easy, I just want harder assignments and learn more. I'm constantly learning and constantly getting better. One day I * might * even become a master, if I'm very lucky.

[@golternator333]

Being an expert (I would say "specialist") is often provided with a glass ceiling :(

[@davecullins1606]

@@golternator333 Explain?

[@iruns1246]

@@davecullins1606 I think the ceiling is the hardest challenge (in your field of expertise) that you can get in a job before the corporation needs to change itself (e.g getting bigger, spreading to other markets, adding new products/services, etc). Those things are largely out of one expert's control, so that'll likely be your ceiling.

[@MrQuantumInc]

I think this sort of promotion comes from a sort of meritocracy that assumes that people are skilled at everything or nothing, competent at everything or nothing, either good overall or bad overall. Thus your meritocracy just needs to sort people from worst to best and give the most important jobs to the best. Either that or somebody realized that the promise of power would be the best motivator. People will work hard so that maybe one day they will be promoted and then have power over their coworkers, and more control in the company. Both of these seem insane to me.

[@chrism8180]

Ha, ye understand! 😉👍

[@meferswift]

I don't think thinj meritocracy says anything about that spesifically. It's not like we always appoint best hunter to manage farmer association. Altough i agree in practice people just appoint whoever considered the best.

[@steamnamebbderinvade__]

That really just sounds like a stupid meritocracy.

[@dynamicworlds1]

@@steamnamebbderinvade__ welcome to the one you likely live in.

[@Dano-uf8ys]

The Peter principle applies to those in congress, they reach their level of incompetence the day they get elected.

[@ninjacats1647]

Well the public is to blame for promoting people to congress, not middle managers.

[@Spider-Too-Too]

@@ninjacats1647 sonetime i think normal ppl shouldnt have the right to vote, it should be a priviage that needed to be earned

[@isakrshol9021]

@@Spider-Too-Too thats a oligarchy mate,

[@Spider-Too-Too]

@@isakrshol9021 if only the one percent of ppl can earn the right to vote, then they will take it more seriously. tho, imo, voting is just a bliss so ppl think they can make changes without the threat of violence

[@isakrshol9021]

@@Spider-Too-Too who decides who votes?

[@claytonburris3874]

Bait and switch. Story isn’t told to reflect the real pricipal

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

I think the best examples are at industrial level, where highly skilled people get promoted after a few years (sometimes even against their will). A brilliant toolmaker may become a lousy team director for the loss of everyone. It's better to promote people only after knowing how they will perform in a different kind of work, or increase their salaries and compensations instead of promoting them to a position to which they don't have skills. This also has a lot of responsibility from trade unions, that impose promotions by time, not skills.

[@BuddyLee23]

It’s a good video on the Peter Principle, but after watching it I still feel Peter Principle ≠ Opioid Epidemic. The real world example just didn’t tie into the concept in any way I could clearly identify.

[@CharalamposKoundourakis]

Indeed.

[@arcanewonders9641]

Charalampos Koundourakis yes indeed.

[@viktormuerte]

I read the book The Peter Principle back when I was 12. I'm not a big reader but it was the one book that really stuck with me. In fact, I can still remember factoids from the book decades later and as a result have always noticed how the actual principle works in real life.

[@DoctorPhileasFragg]

Factoids are false or unproven statements that are repeated and accepted as true.

[@viktormuerte]

@@DoctorPhileasFragg it also means "a briefly stated and usually trivial fact." (Merriam Webster). I was using the word in that manner.

[@DoctorPhileasFragg]

@@viktormuerte Definition added after everyone kept using it wrong.

[@viktormuerte]

@@DoctorPhileasFragg well, language evolves so...

[@jeremyc4811]

I imagine this is why some organizations require certain rotations through different positions and offices. Instead of getting stuck in a dead-end position for 20 years, you test the employee in several new roles and potentially find a much better fit for them.

[@maduran31]

There is a ton of this in corporate America. Overflating resumes with good interview skills can be dangerous. But ... what I've noticed is, if you have good people at the ground level, management is hardly needed. I've seen this alot. Easy tale sign, when they're out, they are not even missed. Business as usual, sometimes even better.

[@Inkling777]

I love the "oxidevil" example. Thanks! You might want to explore the opposite pattern. That's people who, being bad in one position, move UP the ladder to conceal their inabilities, often becoming administrators of those who're better at their former job than they ever were. A good illustration, and one I know all too well, in nursing. Good nurses typically stay in nursing itself, often moving on to ever more demanding positions. They love what they do. Those who fail at nursing itself often escape into nursing administration where they display resentment toward good nurses and destroy morale by being hypercritical. I write about my experience with just such a situation in a book, Senior Nurse Mentor. The floor nurses eventually became so frustrated, they quit in a mass exodus. A nurse mentor is a new nursing speciality tasked with keeping nursing morale high.

[@aza6513]

Could you elaborate paper in fail nursing and become administrator ? And how it become bad for floor nurse

[@coolfer2]

It's similar to the saying "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach". Or in this case, not teach, but administer.

[@stevenhuffnagel]

At least in sales you have to have some kind of competence to start off with, but look at catering, you can be incompetent at the very start. Some can be promoted to supervisor, then manager without having any clue whatsoever all along the way. And that's without mentioning how many people get a job simply by connections, i.e. nepotism and favouritism. That could be another subject, how many incompetent managers confuse "people skills" or social skills with favouritism. The only thing I would add to the video is that training needs for the incompetent won't be identified first because of the costs involved, second because in many cases it would instantly highlight the incompetence of their managers who promoted them without any prerequisites.

[@graceslayer5950]

I’ve been at this incompetence before. I was recently hired as an intern at an engineering firm. I was so terrified I would mess up I became incompetent. Safe to say it was a learning experience. I’ve learnt to always study the material for the job, understand and learn within my own constraints. Finally know my strengths and weaknesses beforehand.

[@ElectronicCalifornia]

I’m confused as to how the Peterson Principle applies to Purdue. They were not incompetent, they were greedy and soulless

[@thomaslester6173]

I think the point is that so many of the managers and directors had been promoted to their maximum level of incompetence and therefore were too insecure in their positions to challenge the shady behaviour of the company. That was my take home message anyway!

[@coolfer2]

So, basically they don't want to rock the boat even though they know that the boat can explode at any time. And sometimes, they are no longer in the position where they can even help to fix the problem, because they have to do the "managerial duties" and have to make sure their managed employees meet the "target" set by their own higher ups, which they themselves are also in the similar situation. Chain of incompetent commanders, basically.

[@coolfer2]

Imagine a tech company in which they know that they have security holes in their system. But instead of assigning their most experienced engineers to fix the issue, the company keep promoting them up into the managerial chain, where they no longer able to even touch the issue day to day. So the issues are never fixed, the junior engineers have no clue how to fix it, and the senior engineers no longer care, or unable to care because of their new set of duties. The company grows and grows, until someday they have data breach. And everyone keeps asking why there is no one who fixed the damn thing.

[@kiwoongpk91]

Oh holy cow. This explains so well how the company I work in got hollow. Punish the hard work while rewarding the incompetence.

[@nobody-hr1lo]

Happens everywhere... Capable people in the end pose a threat as well as a clear and present danger to the system.

[@timb9257]

Many companies have ceilings on pay for lower level workers, so promotion is a way reward high performers. A paradigm shift is to stop capping pay and reward performance.

[@chrissgchriss]

It makes sense, people leave jobs. Those who stay are promoted, to be managers to train the newer people. Newer people leave - those who stay get more promoted. They can't leave now or get other jobs because their skills are degraded in one company. Repeat for 10 years this process...

[@PaulieWalnuts_007]

🎯

[@Zen_Power]

The answer is simple. Request a demotion or pay reduction and task redistribution. Or leave and get a different job.

[@j.i.s.l178]

🍿

[@FredoCorleone]

Seen this many time, the problem is also the fact that there are many very competent people who don't want to take responsibility.

[@Stress_._Free]

Smart folks

[@Dejawolfs]

yes, and it's not just a matter of training, it's a matter of passion and brain wiring. some people are wired for math, some for art, some for language, some for compassion. people have strengths and weaknesses. if you put them in a position where they can use none of their strengths, your business is doomed to fail.

[@MrJmayes23]

ABSOLUTELY!

[@gwine9087]

Then, there is the "Inverse Peter Principal" that says the more valuable you are in you job, the less likely you will be promoted.

[@TyRaff]

I've had so many supervisors that are great at putting labels on boxes, but can't lead worth a damn. I've also had coworkers that are natural leaders on the floor, but only hit 80 to 90 percent of their rate and therefore, by company policy, can't be promoted.

[@therealbahamut]

I see this first hand all the time. It's completely nonsensical. Part of the reason it happens though? Those of us who might make good leaders are for whatever reason not interested in moving up to a middling position where we're responsible for a lot more people but still don't REALLY have the power to actually make decisions.

[@dynamicworlds1]

@@therealbahamut also, if competant leaders were put in management (and not prevented from being effective) they would become a threat to current management.

[@therealbahamut]

@@dynamicworlds1 Yeah...wouldn't THAT be awesome...

[@ariebrons7976]

my mum said that her time as 'head secretary' was the worst possition she ever held. she quit after six months and became a nurse, where she ended up wasting her time with paperwork, not at patient beds she joined the army, cleaned and then became a house wife only to discover that her fantasy prince was all the terrible positions combined

[@bagobeans]

Freakonomics did a great podcast on this very subject. Just because one is a good employee among others, does not mean they will be good in leadership roles.

[@lenyaeger9969]

I've seen the next level - what I call "the Peter Principle Plus." I used have a non-academic job at a major university, and it was accepted knowledge that the civil-service rules made it so difficult to terminate incompetent workers that the only way their bosses could get rid of them was to recommend them for promotion. I saw this in action many times.

[@allensmith8953]

OMG! This completely explains the US ARMY!

[@elivevile]

or my family. I used to criticize my dad about his many failings. Now for many years I've become a dad myself, I realize I've become just like him. Looks like I've been 'promoted' into incompetence myself.

[@allensmith8953]

@@elivevile What does that have to do with my comment? You could have just made that comment on your own. I mean...why are you replying to my comment with your Dad story?

[@todshopov8727]

elivevile in psychoanalysis that’s called “the return of the repressed” Freud himself noticed it very early on- we eventually turn into our parents, regardless of how hard we tried not to, earlier on in our life.

[@jimmicrackhead12]

Poor guy.... so many promotions! Now they are stuck at the top.... very sad :(

[@hisexcellencypresidentofre4118]

😆😂🤣 smart comment!

[@TarsonTalon]

Money ain't everything, especially when you have no time to yourself to enjoy it.

[@jimmicrackhead12]

@eternity cosplay lol no

[@jimmicrackhead12]

@eternity cosplay yea... stories... grow up

[@dustinn6325]

What an absolutely brilliant way to tie together two different topics. Very well done 👍

[@andrewcutler1380]

Thank you. I’m using this for my business English class.

[@sprouts]

Wonderful! Thank You, Andrew! If you want to support us to make more videos like this one, there are a few things you can do right now. 1. You can subscribe and click the bell icon to get notified when we upload a new video. 2. You can share this video with a friend or people from school or work. 3. You can also support us directly, with a small monthly subscription at www.patreon.com/sprouts

[@kennyfrench4701]

Had a discussion with a H.R manager a few years ago (was 2nd in charge to supervisor ) which I actually claimed soon after starting . The topic was how a person would be made supervisor without any guidance whatsoever. His response was not comforting and rather disturbing . Since that conversation the production manager retired and a certain supervisor took (given) the vacated position . With that came promotions , demotions , swapping /changing workers to different shifts/tasks and re-arranging responsibilities (micromanagement) . Comments like , " Thats your department , your responsible " or , " You have a problem with...... What are you telling me for " . Fortunately I'm my own boss at the company and there are some who cannot handle the concept of individualism and autonomy of duties . Any ideas you suggest are mocked at first before becoming appropiated as theirs months later . Yes it happens . The Peter principle would also overlap with narcissistic game plays , very toxic indeed .

[@ldshasnobrain]

Don't forget a promotion to manager is a great way to get rid of somebody who will break under the pressure lol.

[@lojan1990]

In my experience if you suck at everything you get promoted if you are good at your job they are afraid to lose you in that position.

[@stevetheduck1425]

My time in the armed forces was filled with people saying 'why don't you want to get promoted? Answer was always the same. 'I've seen what gets promoted, I'm not one of those'.

[@dmeachy]

Excellent information. Rings a bell like I might have learned it at some point in life. I'm so glad that most of my life I have not had a so-called real job and haven't had any concern about moving up in the bs corporate world. Moreover, what exactly does moving up indicate? More money? That's a serious pitfall. More money doesn't satisfy and doesn't last. Sucks all the joy out of your life.

[@Adam-vp4oe]

Oxydevil... not a slight hint towards anything in particular

[@dynamicworlds1]

Legally distinct from any existing product. 😉

[@skb4055]

This is the most accurate thing I have seen on KZbin. The video was spot on and the comments were seemingly from intelligent, insightful people. I learned a lot about why lower management does what they do. They are, unfortunately, speed bumps in between worker bees and upper management. That’s why there are so many of them.

[@LilyGrace1990]

And low level employees who suck at their jobs may be better managers. But they never get promoted. That's the main problem with it. I'm definitely in that category. I hate doing busywork, but I'm pretty good at delegating and making necessary changes where needed. Bad employees who are constantly coming up with ideas on how to innovate should be promoted over good ones who are thriving in their positions. It's good business.

[@chooselife3000]

"Our personnel are our greatest asset" yeah sure that's why nearly all corporates often sweep through massive redundancies

[@cardboardbox191]

it's probably true I work for a cleaning company and another business hires the company I work for. I get paid about minimum wage and the company I work for wants it cut what means the company that hires them must be being charged above minimum wage even if that's by a penny. Paying by the hour is expensive and companies wouldn't pay it if it weren't worth is a worse situation the job would just be left undone if it wasn't worth paying for. If people are treated as the greatest asset is another question.

[@atis9061]

I was promoted from mime to clown with my company and immediately regreted it! How could I ever of thought I could fill those shoes!

[@indrajitghosh4187]

Very well made video! But the question still remains: what's the alternative to promoting people who perform well, are passionate and successful in their current roles? Often promotion is a motivation for people to work hard and do well. Should they be trained a lot before/after a promotion? Should people be hired from outside for a specific opening and the current internal employees be not considered for promotion? This video could have been even better if it presented the possible solutions to this problem instead of just explaining the problem very nicely and then suddenly ending!

[@couchpotatoe91]

Easy solution: Pay people more for a work well done while allowing them to continue doing what they're doing with the added bonus of having more say in it, thus not requiring them to get promoted if they want to earn more money.

[@armorbearer9702]

It sounds like there is a lot of waste at the middle management level. A bunch of lazy and unsatisfied employees appear to crowd this level.

[@daviduliana4447]

My bona fides: I have worked for more than 40 years in large corporations as a professional. It is exactly true. You are not promoted for your achievement. You are promoted because you are incompetent at your present position. All of the good managers I have had were fired and the lousy ones were promoted.

[@davidbeppler3032]

And the FDA gets off without even a warning.

[@0ctopusComp1etely]

The Peter Principle isn't just a principle. It's my LIFE.

[@pstrzel]

Don't cap high performers, so they don't feel like they must move on from the work they're doing.

[@popowazhere]

“Oxydevil” I’m sensing a bit of a connection there 😂

[@louisanow]

Excellent tie-in with a historic real life example we can all understand - and will never forget.

[@sprouts]

Glad you noticed

[@ekanathr4455]

Thank you so much for this video

[@johnsnow5305]

I've almost completed my BS in Business Administration, and I can tell you that this is completely true. The skillset needed for being a manager is much more diverse than being a salesperson. Only ~25% of the skills you get from being a salesperson will transfer over to useful skills in management. I've always wondered why companies promote the way they do. I think it's because of the desire for having someone recognized / rewarded. So they get a promotion (aka a 'reason' to have higher pay and status than before) which is a way to publicize that they are getting those things...but at the cost of potentially hurting the company and making the person unhappy / stressed. The desire to be above someone else drives this behavior imo. A worker co-op that shares profits among all its workers with less of a difference than in corporations probably won't have this problem. They see each other as basically the same - the hierarchy isn't very steep. People are different because they do different things, but all those things are important enough to give them the pay and respect they deserve. The spread in pay for most worker co-ops is 2-7 times the lowest paid employee. Compare that to traditional corporations that prioritize having a hierarchy for status reasons, and you see the spread going to anywhere from ~50 to ~1250 the lowest paid employee. Keep in mind, the CEO doesn't bring 50 to 1250 times the value to the company that the lowest paid employees provide. inequality.org/great-divide/how-to-track-ceo-worker-pay-ratios/

[@sblijheid]

They promote the way they do because the person proposing the promotion is incompetent. They look at how many years you are with the company and how good of a job you did and then promote you because of your experience. I've met people with decades of wrong experience. Of course, as incompetent as it gets.

[@chris8534]

Totally believe high skill and value staff should be paid more than managers.

[@SiMeGamer]

I myself am in such a position but I had no say in the matter and I'm constantly trying to move down the chain to a simple worker since that is what I'm best at and I have absolutely no managerial skills or desire. It's a huge problem that Simon Sinek has addressed many times in his talks. Good video :]

[@kevinoverbeck4250]

Pay good performers well, and they will continue to preform well. A promotion is not always the best way to reward good work.

[@thesong7877]

These leaves out the race to the bottom aspect, where people at their threshold will try avoid the risk of being replaced by ensuring a lack of people potentially better than them who could take the position. So they'll fire a better employee and keep a worse one specifically to ensure they still look better by comparison.

[@jeremyw9709]

Jesus christ this animation style is so satisfying

[@sallybilzon3507]

I’ve recognised this principle from years of involvement in management. My hubby has too and turned down a promotion to a higher grade on the basis that the new role contained little of what he both enjoyed and excelled at. And that’s his point: why promote the super competent into roles that take them away from what they love? Just pay them more! 🤑

[@sprouts]

Smart husband !

[@christophernelson9891]

It's a weird feeling to have had friends affected by opioid addiction, with no knowledge on how to save them from themselves... to get a glimpse of what was behind it all in a youtube video.

[@timmy7201]

Based on what I've learned at my engineering job is, it are most often those who are good at boot-licking yet incompetent as an engineer that get promoted. Most engineers don't mind this at all, based on the fact that both inept engineers and inept managers cause additional workload on the rest of the engineering team. We rather prefer to have centralized incompetence higher up the corporate ladder, than being forced to work besides it. Occasionally an incompetent engineer proofs him/her-selves to be a very competent leader... It's a win-win situation.

[@Avianthro]

Proving once again the Peter Principle...It'd be amazing if we actually had competency in a bureaucracy like the NIH, and in a nation controlled by a plutocracy/corporate fascism, it'd be a true miracle.

[@McMurchie]

Companies, fintech in the UK don't do promotions now, if your manager likes you he/she can recommend you for a new role, but you still have to interview for it. A bit better, still not great but better.

[@mapachem4828]

Yes and they will make you do the 3 month of training for the new role and on the same time you have to put up with whole your current job making long hours without extra pay to proove youre good and invested and to make the bosses happy. Next thing you know they hired someone from outside the company to the role you where expecting to get and now you have two jobs and get paid for one and they're expeting from you to keep doing both... Not happy ending. Been there not doing that sh*t again.

[@privateimperialeagle6390]

In reality the incompetent get promoted rather than fired because promoting a productive person to supervisor or manager decreases production, while making an incompetent person count beans and take attendance doesn't drop production at all.

[@drakoan]

A lot of people think they want to be in charge because they have convinced themselves it is prestigious or has some kind of inherent glory: these people are the worst kinds of leaders. You could do better promoting at random than promoting these kinds of people. High quality leaders are usually not egoists but rather community sensitive or oriented people who can respond and form the team with a vision of it as a larger organism with its own needs and priorities. The first category I mentioned has no vision beyond themselves so can only lead properly under specific circumstances which are rare.

[@Donna_5irm]

Significant, yet another round of important refund information

[@multuminparvo5]

Even priests can be jailed for incompetence and obscurity now.

[@jamesrindley6215]

In many companies it's actually the least competent people who get promoted. The leader of the software department will be the one programmer who couldn't code to save his life. Those who can actually do their jobs well are too valuable where they are.

[@mattdeamer9742]

Perhaps it isn't getting the promotion people should be worried about. What is more important is that the employee gets the training needed to undertake that job role. Perhaps some form of 'taster' or 'trial' at their current job role level of the new role. Whilst doing this they undertake the training required and are supported by their line manager in a form of scaffolding. The scaffolding slowly gets removed as the employee becomes more competent. This way the company can assess whether they have the skills to do the job and the employee can assess whether they can do the job or will be happy and satisfied in undertaking it.

[@10lobster19]

So “Office Space” should have been called “Peter Principal”.

[@reginafallangie2867]

#10 Lobster, Art imitates life.

[@insylem]

His name is Peter in that movie

[@NancyEMcGill]

It happens in corporate legal departments where suggested (but non-mandated) managerial courses are offered and declined by uninterested staff. It creates a toxic workplace.

[@andrewbigman2374]

Wait, some people who died from heroin overdoses had used oxycontin before? What about the thousands who died from heroin before 1996, who NEVER used oxycontin? Who do we blame that on?? Correlation does not equal causation!

[@HalfStarFilms]

It can go the other way to. Someone could be terrible at sales but a phenomenal manager.

[@stefamondo]

all true!!!!!!!!!! I lived in europe and I worked for an american company, and not a small one... a 3 biliion company... well, people promoted were not the most skilled or the ones with best manager profile, no... the ones promoted were just allowing companies to the worst thing, and these then built an overstructure that was protecting themselfes.. after few years everything falled down, a total disaster I really learnt a lot from that experience

[@guyoflife]

I really think this wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem if we gave workers autonomy over their work instead of treating them as tools for a capitalist's profits.

[@davidroddick91]

I'd never heard of this principle, but was always nervous about it. Where I worked, there was a lot of pressure to advance; but I was afraid that, if I did really well at my job, I would be rewarded with a promotion to a job at which I may or may not be successful. I was really good at my job, and wanted to continue doing it. But I felt pressure from my managers and the company to try and advance my career.

[@markplain2555]

Business Management 101: There are 3 main 'management related skills": Technical, Human and Conceptual. As you proceed up the management chain, the emphasis on your skills changes from technical to human resource related to conceptual. The ability to have all 3 skills depends on the knowledge you gained (and retained) from University. . Unfortunately some university degrees focus only on technical skills (for example Engineering). The MBA program (as an example) is supposed to introduce conceptual skills to those degrees that lack an education in higher management. A BCom, or BAcc degree should have you better covered than even an MBA. . In the story of this video, there was way too much confusion and a total neglect for Business Management 101. Our 2 employees were tied up in a company breaking the law which has little to nothing to do with management skills.

[@truedreams1]

Thank you comments section for explaining this video.

[@gumbilicious1]

They left out one more assumption at the beginning, that higher positions in a company require a more rigorous skill set. This is usually explicitly stated as an assumption that doesn’t always reflect how “reality” works

[@bharathr1059]

Excellent

[@singularity1130]

Hire an automation engineer to replace Peter for a bot that does their work better for pennies.

[@mannyechaluce3814]

The main issue is that humans think they are not in control of their lives and do not take on self responsibility. NO ONE is pointing a gun to your head to choose your career path, there is always the option to quit, don't worry there will be a Mexican or an Asian dude willing to take on the job.

[@matthewmchenry2889]

Watching this video confirms it. They drug on and on for 5 minutes to get to the point, then the budget ran out and they only display slow scrolling text. Never even made it to the 10:01 mark. 😂

[@JonathanVachon777]

Think i agree more with the dalbert priciple. Its about how good you are at bullshitting and not about competence

[@KRAZEEIZATION]

Oxydevil! Good name for a metal band!

[@janvanderbiezen4162]

if you know about the opioid problem the disguise is beyond flimsy

[@derGhebbet]

I remember when this was called the Dilbert Principle.

[@pmnt_]

There is a difference: The Dilbert Principle is a cynical interpretation of the Peter Principle: The most incompetent people are quickly promoted to middle management, where they can do the least harm. The Dilbert Principle is based on malice, the Peter Principle on naivity, the results are the same.

[@nukleararse1]

Nice

[@guns4786]

If having done the job or being immediately good at it was a requirement then that job would have never existed . The promotion is typically given because you master one level of a job and while there is no guarantee you will be good at the managing or management, your hard work, willingness to learn, and having mastered your craft are sure good indicators that you will master whatever is thrown at you within reason. People do get promoted to jobs they don’t end up liking or to jobs they aren’t good at and should, if found incompetent, have those jobs removed from them and placed back where they were.

[@cat6th363]

So if you're planning ahead, try to acquire some skills to compliment your promotion, right?

[@p0rt3r]

An alternative often encountered is, that competent people remain stuck a position the have proven to be competent in, while they watch their incompetent colleges get promoted. The Dilbert principle.

[@TheCheesyBanana]

Is there a particular reason the ending was done with no voiceover/animating? (Or was it just done in post-production?)

[@antonioman2972]

"Oxy devil" wtf should we just not prescribe it anymore because people cant be adults and use it responsibly. How are you gonna tell another adult human what they can or can't do ? A problem in our world is that everyone thinks they can tell someone else what to do or what they can't do. Instead of setting an example everyone just wants to parent eachother

[@ryarod]

I am only at 1:53, yet I already feel sorry for Diana.

[@user-wu2rb3bq6i]

Yeah I wouldn't trust someone that shakes with their left hand either

[@BlueMonk25]

Wait.. You can actually get a promotion at work?? Dang.. That's news to me.

[@lunarmodule6419]

To me it's people who are excellent at sucking up and looking good that get promoted. But mostly sucking up...

[@tomsmyth421]

Does anybody know what size the Sackler family’s hat is?