Testosterone replacement therapy: compelling use cases, side effects, and optimal dosing schedules

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This clip is from episode 274 - Performance-enhancing drugs and hormones-risks, rewards, & broader implications for the public. Derek is the entrepreneur behind @MorePlatesMoreDates and an expert in molecules commonly used and misused by bodybuilders and athletes.
In this clip, we discuss:
- Total testosterone versus free testosterone
- What do we know about the amount of total testosterone over time in a man's life?
- Optimizing the dosing schedule for testosterone
- And more
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About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing longevity, and all that goes into that from physical to cognitive to emotional health. With over 90 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including exercise, nutritional biochemistry, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter Attia is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan.
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[@HIM2PODCAST]

I was 33 when I got tested and my levels where the same as a 83 year old man. I couldn't play sports or get it up. I was fat. Now I do 1cc a week for last 3 years and I play 5 hockey games a week and gym 4 days a week, dropped 50 pounds, and play with girls 3 days a week. I feel unreal. Thx trt

[@jackkollman9683]

Should have just started with the will power....thanks weakness and the drive through mentality of health...

[@floorpizza8074]

@@jackkollman9683 Proper hormonal function is as important to mental and physical well being as insulin is to controlling blood sugar. What you are saying is equivalent to saying "just power through your diabetes, no need to take insulin." Take a few weeks and get some basic education in how hormones work before posting such things.

[@GemLeo0679]

@@floorpizza8074100 my friend. That was an extremely ignorant comment of jack

[@jeffreyfurtado44]

When you say 1 cc, how many mg is that and what type of test. Thanks

[@RobertofDetroit]

Dude, same, same!!! I’m like yeah there are risks but if I’m feeling 80 in my 30’s don’t think I wanna make it to my 80’s

[@229glock]

Two things stand out. Derek is super knowledgeable for someone who’s not an MD, and Peter is super humble for being a practicing MD with what appears to be a true quest for knowledge from someone who has useful info to share.

[@nokungfuforyou323]

I am sure the kid knows a lot of s*** but both of these guys are reinforcing their grift.

[@nukedpancakes3_863]

Peter most definitely has an air of doctor arrogance around him.

[@mussersbowsboatsandscience6610]

Despite public perception MDs are particularly knowledgeable about their specialty, not everything health related or will often talk like the know something like TRT when they may have just looked up the guidelines before you talked to them in their office

[@kennethwickey3661]

*a non practicing MD who dropped out of his residency

[@terminator2348]

@@kennethwickey3661 He is a practicing MD. Look it up

[@Photoshop729]

Spent my entire 40s feeling like I was under water despite forcing myself to work out, eat right, etc. Tried treatments for depression and ADHD since my symptoms mimicked those issues, but only got side effects. Finally, got TRT and it is life changing. Was always an athlete who thought it was an illegal drug, wish I woulda started ten years ago wouldn’t have lost a decade to misery. I don’t think you can judge people without knowing their story. I’ve literally gone from hating life and barely surviving to thriving and driving. And my biceps look pretty good too.

[@HMuny55]

No matter where you are on the spectrum before TRT makes you feel amazing

[@MadsNattyOfNorway]

Fookin awesome. Good your health&wealth is back✌️

[@gregevans1502]

Interesting experience. The effect on your psychology/attitude sounds surprisingly strong. Thx for this.

[@jasonriley5438]

Went through this same exact thing in my 20s and early 30s. Been on TRT for 3 years and it’s amazing how good I feel on a consistent basis now.

[@juanrojas6596]

So you're talking about these clinics that I really don't know what they're doing.. Where do you suggest we go what?Type of doctor do we see..I'm 53.. I work out try to live A healthy lifestyle but dam i'm still tired.. any input Would be helpful

[@lomotil3370]

🎯 Key points for quick navigation: 00:12 *📊 Data on normal free testosterone levels stratified by age is limited compared to total testosterone data.* 01:07 *🧪 Free testosterone is typically estimated, not directly measured, introducing potential for error.* 02:15 *📉 Men experience about 1% drop in total testosterone and 2-3% drop in free testosterone annually after age 30-35.* 04:18 *💉 Primary hypogonadism (high LH/FSH, low testosterone) is the most justified use case for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT).* 06:52 *💊 A typical starting dose for TRT is 100-120mg per week, adjusted based on individual response and factors like SHBG levels.* 09:38 *⏱️ Injecting testosterone twice weekly is considered minimum for optimal hormone stability, with more frequent injections potentially beneficial.* 11:26 *📈 Less frequent injections can cause hormone spikes, leading to increased side effects and conversion to estradiol and DHT.* 14:43 *🔄 More frequent dosing better mimics natural hormone rhythms, potentially reducing side effects like gynecomastia.* 17:35 *💉 Testosterone cypionate has a longer half-life than enanthate, but injection frequency is more important than ester type for stability.* 19:41 *💪 Subcutaneous injections may provide a more sustained release compared to intramuscular, but the difference becomes less significant with frequent dosing.* Made with HARPA AI

[@mkinvincible]

Excellent!

[@ADayInTheLifeOfJames]

Thanks mate

[@therehastobesomethingmoore]

Started TRT at 59, 3 years ago, and it has really helped. I have worked HARD in the gym and take just enough to keep me st normal levels. I still have a way to go but my body and energy level has changed dramatically. I look forward to exercising daily rather than feeling like a tired slug.

[@nateh6441]

I've been on HRT since 2018 for PGF started at 1 ml per week switched to twice a week at half dose. My first year I switched to subq from IM and the twice a week schedule with life changing results. Age 45- 6 years in - I've switched back to once a week injections and found no adverse effects. I did think that it would help me be more muscular but primarily the differences I'm experiencing are lower fatigue, lower joint pain, better function, improved mood. I cant imagine going back to the way I felt at 39.

[@coachjsu]

Are you saying you felt better with once a week or twice a week injections (IM Or Subq), kind of confused reading this.

[@sandeephunjan]

39 seems extremely young to start TRT. Are you in the States?

[@jordixboy]

I started at 28, there is no minimum age to need testosterone...

[@scottparks95]

​@sandeephunjan some people have other issues leading to hypogonadism. At 29yr old my total testosterone was 42. Trt changed and possibly saved my life.

[@nateh6441]

​@coachjsu I felt better my first few years with 2 shots per week. 6 months ago I switched to weekly shots and feel no difference. I still feel great. My doc said that with longer term HRT that my body would more efficiently use the T

[@DanielFlores-ru4ij]

I've been on TRT for about 8mon now and I can say at least for me it's changed my life. So many physical and emotional issues that this has changed. I want to say it's helped. Plus changing my whole life style. Diet and exercise. I was 285. Now I'm 235. I feel amazing. Get blood work and see what you can get started

[@miguelcisneros5654]

Glad to hear that. I’m overweight and all I keep hearing is TRT is just gonna make you bloat and be even fatter you need to get fit before T. But i don’t have any damn energy after work cause low T…

[@DanielFlores-ru4ij]

@@miguelcisneros5654 my doctor automatically told me trt will make you feel 25 again. I was very skeptical of what I've researched and for me my biggest concern was my hair. I know it sounds crazy but I decided hair or my health. So I went with it. Best decision i made. Find a doctor that specializes in it. Get blood work done. Everything you said i had the same issue. Work all day and too lazy to do anything now..10 or 12 hr shift is nothing. After that i workout eat and it's changed my life. It doesn't bloat you or anything like that. Only thing I've noticed is extra body hair i never had before but that's it. Go for it. Hope to hear from you if you decide to.

[@Leo6933]

Do you feel you would have felt the same if you lost the weight first?

[@DanielFlores-ru4ij]

@@Leo6933 honestly i dont know because I couldn't loose the weight. It's difficult to explain. Like I was in a daze i was at a point where I was lazy didn't want to do anything. Always tired. I didn't even want to go outside with my kids and play. Go on vacations I literally would go to work and then home. Lay around all day and do absolutely nothing. So to answer your question I feel like since i first started taking trt. It's like my eyes were open. Wide open. Everything was clear. I was focused. I was excited I was motivated. It was amazing. My back knees none of that bothers me anymore. It's pretty remarkable.

[@Leo6933]

@@DanielFlores-ru4ij Well I’m happy your doing better. For me when I took it I realized I didn’t really need it after I got my nutrition and exercise regimen on point.

[@alexedens1]

I started TRT at 51 doing weekly injections of Cypionate through a local clinic. Great results. Within the last year I switched to pellets. A bit more expensive but extremely convenient, especially as a frequent traveler. Plus no highs and lows. Overall I think it’s worth the extra expense.

[@keiththomson9628]

I think you have it backwards. You can control your levels much better with injections.

[@alexedens1]

@@keiththomson9628 Gotta respectfully disagree. The pellets last between 5-6 months, depending on activity level. I’ve done labs at various points during each stretch and every time the numbers are spot on. The T leeches out at a constant rate that even a shot per day can’t match. The trick is in the initial dosing. The proper number of pellets need to be inserted. If that’s done correctly you are locked and loaded for the duration. No thoughts or worries for 1/2 a year. I won’t be going back to injections.

[@carlosSillas14]

​@@keiththomson9628he said convenient cause he is on the go and doesn't have to mess with injections.

[@successsystem2468]

Alex what are pellets?

[@mortengabrielsen6923]

Great work people, so interesting, keep it coming!!

[@guessmyname1104]

I already had most of the negative side effects from TRT as pre-existing conditions. None of them got worse after I started. In fact, some of them, like sex drive, improved after I started.

[@psycold]

I'm 41 and I've been on TRT for about 9 months. For the first 6 months I couldn't get above around 500 nanograms per deciliter, they kept cranking up the dose. I started doing a split dose of twice a week and now I'm over 900. Only side effects have been acne which is not terrible on my back, but weirdly I got pretty severe acne between my pecs, and it's very stubborn stuff that won't go away. I've had it for like 3 months now. It is weird being my age and waking up with morning wood every day, but I'm not complaining. I honestly haven't noticed much of a difference in terms of gym performance and muscle growth, but the biggest thing for me is that it works as like an anti-depressant. I am always in a good mood now.

[@Taylor2424]

Same here on the acne...I'll get one on the shoulder every once in a while....but mostly chest area

[@GemLeo0679]

All it’s going to do is make you solid and in good shape. You’re not juicing

[@Risingabovechaos]

I'm 48 and was hypogonadal. Now I'm at 586ng/DL. This book goes into real detail and gives insight to things others don't mention. Complete Guide to Testosterone by James Francis.

[@BiHuSrcu]

u on trt?

[@Risingabovechaos]

@@BiHuSrcu No. None.

[@marcus_ohreallyus]

I've been doing 0.3 at three times per week and it keeps me in the 900 to 1000 range. I had hypogonadism from a varicocele, so my natural baseline without TRT was around 150. I load insulin syringes once per week, so they're ready to go on injection day. I use a 29g insulin needle into the upper vastus lateralis and the thick liquid has no problem going through the small syringe

[@quantumfx2677]

A good friend of mine living in Colorado has had a hematocrit over 50 for over 20 years and says its common where they live and pregnant women have to leave from the higher altitudes and even as a child is still growing until they become much older but its zero health problems for adults and many live a healthy long life and take the hematocrit fear over 50 with a grain of salt.

[@rockroll7649]

I started out with 300mg cypionate. I went to 200mg every 2 weeks and still had hypogonadal symptoms. Then went to 150mg every week. My test runs at 600 ng/dl and am doing great.

[@kimd2094]

A video on trt, let's see the comments of 60 yr olds woth 700+ test levels who say it's all about good sleep and nutrition..

[@Slickone-wk9mc]

Cope 🤷‍♂️

[@jackkollman9683]

Legal steriods are a big business, and weak men need an excuse...

[@fitbjj]

I think you're in the wrong community. 60 year olds here with 700 test admit to taking trt. Go to one of the actors that gain 40 pounds of muscle in 4 months and post this

[@scottfalcon]

lol, because you don't need to workout or eat properly to gain muscle.

[@jeffreyfurtado44]

Grow up.

[@kcheng3594]

thank you for the comment. I found it very inspiring.

[@Over-v1w]

In Sweden, if (IF) you make it past the narrowsighted doctors that stares blindly at the reference range with complete disregard for symptoms, the only injectable option for trt is 1 gram every 8-12 weeks (6 weeks first injection). NO hcg under any circumstances.

[@corismsyn]

Derek, I have varicocele. I had no idea this could affect my T levels. I've always been a hard gainer. What should I do to get this checked out?

[@thatcarlifeR8]

I’m one of the OG’s. I have been on TRT for. 16 years. I started when I was 32. I’m 48 years old now. I would probably make an interesting case study. My has always been 200 mg per week split into two doses self administered. I think it’s had a pretty dramatic positive impact on my overall health in that my calcium score is still zero and my cholesterol has always been high I do not take drugs. In fact, I refuse to. my triglycerides are also high yet. I had my first calcium test five years ago and it was zero then and it is still zero now. 200 mg of testosterone for me puts me around 750. And it will put my free testosterone around 50. Over the years I have gone on and off for as long as six months because quite honestly, I just gets tired of sticking a needle in myself

[@marken816]

Negative side effects?

[@thatcarlifeR8]

@@marken816 not 100% sure tbh. In the beginning, it was quite the delicate balance finding the right dosage along with the right amount of anti-estrogen. It took about a year to get everything correct. My calcium score is zero and I’ve had it tested twice in the last five years so clearly there’s been no ill results from not taking statins in my case. Only other real side effects are a little bit of water retention, and overall body hair growth and I don’t know if that’s because of the testosterone or just getting old.

[@marken816]

@@thatcarlifeR8 Okay, great to hear. I'm just 23yo, tests in the normal range (if bit lower at 300), purely curious about people's experiences.

[@TheBigUsualSuspect]

I've been using TRT for a year now. My levels were at 200. I'm over 40 years old and work out almost six times per week. I started working virtually, and by the end of the day, I was done, sore, lethargic, etc. After three months on it, my level shot up to over 2000 using 100 ml per week. I lowered it to 25 ml per week, drew blood again, and it dropped to 900. So, I've been using 25 ml per week. I feel it mostly in my daily lifestyle, work, workout, recovery, etc. I also eat lots of protein, fat, and few carbs. I haven't seen any gains in my strength on any of my lifts, but that's okay-that's not the purpose of this TRT.

[@donmerrigan2362]

I'm really hoping you're mixing up your terminology here. People are generally prescribed .5-1ml of test c/wk in the US. You aren't using anywhere from 50-100 times the common dosing. Maybe you meant to say mg per week. But even then your numbers would be considered absolutely off the charts for those doses.

[@TheBigUsualSuspect]

@@donmerrigan2362 Yes, each bottle is 100 mg, so I'm breaking it into 4 shots. I'm taking 0.25 ml per week; that's what I meant. Apologies for the confusion.

[@hanskazan7403]

@@TheBigUsualSuspect why lowering it man 2000 is good

[@TheBigUsualSuspect]

@@hanskazan7403 2000 is way too high IMO, its not TRT anymore.

[@deadlyalliance8281]

35 yr old male. 5' 2" inches 146 lbs. 100mg/0.5ml a week. Peak was 926 total, 194 free. Estradiol on a peak was 31. Trough 6.5 days later, 540 total and 101 free. I'm super happy with these numbers. Pin every Friday like it's my birthday!! 🎉🎂 Only thing is my ferritin bottomed out, like bottom-bottom, bottomed out. 4 ferritin, 40 iron. Iron binding capacity is slightly over 100% 428/425. Im on an every other day iron, lactoferrin and copper regimine and to try and get these numbers higher. Just started this. September 9th is my next ferritin and iron check. As far as the test levels are concerned, they are $$$ at 100 mg a week. Definitely don't need to go higher, but to focus on my iron and ferritin.

[@Kstephens07]

Your free T even at peak is kinda low imo. Hell even at trough most guys feel their best if it’s above 200. You may feel good now because of how bad you felt with low T but I don’t believe you are fully optimized. Optimized free t would be between 200 and 300 regardless of peak or trough.

[@deadlyalliance8281]

@@Kstephens07 I was on 200mg every 10 days before this. Had a total of 1250, free of 255, estradiol of 48 and that I beleive was on a trough lmao. This 100mg a week is working out perfect for me. I dont wanna be in enhanced ranges, just higher than what I was, which clearly I am. I was at a total of 227 with a free of 34 before starting all this. My bodys androgen receptors work very well.

[@BiHuSrcu]

At what age did u start?

[@deadlyalliance8281]

@@BiHuSrcu one year ago actually, so my body has most likely stopped making it's own. These levels I obtain on peaks and troughs should be the ones I obtain for life at this dosage. Only thing I need to do is get my iron and ferritin up and my labs will be *chefs kiss*. Not only that but this was 3 days after injection, which could be SLIGHTLY lower than an actual peak. Usual peak via IM test cyp happens after 10 hours up to 2 days so... We can probably assume, but can't prove I'm right at 1000 ng/dc total and slightly above 200 free and im 110% happy with that. Anything above that and I'll be pushing into enhanced ranges and that's not what trt is for. That's called testosterone sports therapy or testosterone enhanced therapy in the realm of going above normal high levels. My energy levels are already through the roof and (SOMEHOW) I'm suppose to feel even more like super man when I get my ferritin and iron up.

[@BiHuSrcu]

Honestly peak 926 sounds optimal to me, i like how they said that injecting twice a week at least might help decrease those super abnormal peaks…what made you get on trt?

[@Getlost55]

@12:20 you hit it right on the head. It only took me 20 years to figure this out lol.

[@fitchmultz]

Great conversation. Thank you.

[@astroskyofficial]

What about TEST u? Considering its ultra long half life wouldnt it be ideal to get a very good level maybe once every 4 weeks. It means less injections, but also it become just as frequent as test c twice a week.? Iv done some calculations. Seems pretty good no? You front load to get the levels you need fast then switch into the 4 week protocol.

[@lennardtoma6803]

I get TRT (because of testicular cancer) in a dose and frequency I haven't heard you talk about (also in other episodes): 1000mg of undecanoate. The first prescribed frequency was once every 12 weeks. In my case they brought it down to 8. So a pretty long half-life with a relatively low spike once injected. I'm from the Netherlands here, so maybe a European thing. But curious about your thoughts, considering that other forms with 2 week half life you guys kind of dismiss (if I understood correctly). What do you think about undecanoate with a half life of 8-12 weeks then?

[@bearclaw5115]

Undecanoate would be the superior choice for long term administration, maintaining even levels for approximately 4 times longer than other esters. Although mg to mg it is slightly less potent than cypionate or enanthate because a higher portion of the drug is comprised of the ester (at least how it is measured in the U.S.). The problem with your protocol is that 8 weeks is still way too long of an interval even for undecanoate. They push this protocol for marketing reasons (only once every 3 mos? Cool!) and because the long interval makes it possible to go to a doctor for administration ($$$). An injection of undecanoate every 4 weeks cut in half would be much better. And if I was in your shoes I'd take a 1/4 dose every two weeks. Here in the U.S. this is not practical because T. undecanoate injections are only available through your doctor (Aveed) and your physician needs their 'special' training as well. Senseless but that is what it is. In the U.S., the most practical protocol is T. cyp twice a week done at home.

[@JosephAbdo-t9n]

I’ve been on TRT for 5 years and I found that my sides near diminished splitting my dose twice per week also I had to get realistic on the fact that I didn’t need the max TRT dose of typically 200 mg week, for me my sweet spot is 60 mg twice weekly. I would recommend to go by labs and how you feel not ego💯💪

[@nicoc7024]

What is considered Supra physiologic for free and total test?

[@bulldogblvd]

I have been doing cypionate sub Q once per week for the past four years and I don’t notice any difference in my body throughout that week. So, I have not felt the need to have to split up my dosages.

[@JRRod-yc8em]

I tried sub q for 4 weeks to see if I would get those benefits they talked about. I did not, in fact I felt worse. I switched back to IM, felt way better, more focused and energized and motivated.

[@fivebooks8498]

How often did you pin and what was the ester? I’m wondering if I pinned propionate daily sub q if that would get those benefits. Seems like it would mimic closer to how it happens naturally.

[@8Rider6]

Has Derek done any videos on Enclomiphene? Curious on its effectiveness compared to straight test.

[@fatnesstofitnessthereandback]

Loved this

[@thejeffbosley]

Would a Dutch test help show uptake etc?

[@johnthicks8568]

LH and FSH can also be heavily lowered by concussions.

[@user-co2db1ql3u]

Oh thank God it's under an hour. I feel KZbin vids should be 30 mins max

[@Zoet50]

I get all my medical advice from the liver king

[@mr.chilll5179]

Can't go wrong there...

[@ScottyLo]

I’m glad I don’t see him anymore

[@ADayInTheLifeOfJames]

😂

[@alexandereisen3486]

I use his stack 😂😂

[@fivebooks8498]

@@alexandereisen3486 I saw the list of what he was on and the doses. It really wasn’t that much.

[@pwcoon]

I’ve been dosing daily subq for 12 months no ups and downs, acne or other side effects. My hematocrit prior to the switch from weekly to daily was 53 to 55 which required monthly donation now with daily 50 to 52 still high but steady. Prior to TRT it was in the 47 to 48 very steady. I’m very fortunate that my hospital has a program that tracks all my blood test over the years. Therefore easy to compare trends. I transfer 200mg vial into 10 syringes a pain because it’s so thick and a very small dose but it works.

[@StelioKontoss]

A little tip, use bigger needle to draw, smaller to inject. And warm up the vial or the syringes under hot water it helps liquify the oil and goes in easier!

[@bearclaw5115]

@@StelioKontoss Good advice on the needles, 21g for drawing 25g for injecting. I'd skip the water warming for hygiene purposes.

[@pwcoon]

Outstanding I use a larger needle to draw but I will try the warm water method next time

[@tzahi12370]

No bumps from subq injections ? How much do you inject every day 0.2 ml? Did you had acne before from once or twice a week shots?

[@pwcoon]

Yes on the daily. Yes on the acne once a week inter muscle. It stopped within one week of subq. A small amount once in a while now. SMALL amount on my nose!

[@TheSuperEsari]

Also interested to hear about TRT protocol in Europe, i hear the pinning frequency is much lower, 6-10wks?

[@markolehtonen6640]

TRT protocol in Finland: Either Sustanon (7-12 days typically ), or Nebido (typically 6-10 weeks)

[@marken816]

@@markolehtonen6640 Eikö näin pitkät injektiovälit aiheuta tasojen heittelyä?

[@markolehtonen6640]

​@@marken816 Tarkoitat nebidoa? On pitkävaikutteinen, ja tuo on sille oikea väli. Toki annosta voi puolittaa/jakaa.

[@allibouloum6577]

how do you determine if the low testosterone is a testes problem versus a CNS problem? How do you solve it when its a CNS problem? What is the long term plan if you want to maintain your own level, and only topping up to achieve benefits? Will you always destroy your own testosterone production if you take trt?

[@quantumfx2677]

You will have to look at age, physical activity, and nutrition then if you are under stress constantly or have other mental problems there goes your CNS, and overtraining can also cause a problem. If you remove much of the stress or at least manage it your T levels should go up. Remember a certain amount of stress is necessary but being the right kind! Hopefully, you're not under constant stress as it will take you down and set you up for health problems and crush your testosterone but jumping on TRT is not the answer right away unless everything else is in check first and if it is and you are not too low you will want a reputable TRT clinic to try other routes first and if only then if you still can't get to point of good levels where you are feeling good then TRT will come into play. Depending on your age going on TRT at a young age you can recover or at least you should back to good levels but not everyone can after going on TRT and ending up on it for life. I no longer believe this will be the case shortly as we have made improvements and in fact, TRT will also fall by the wayside as LH TRT is here and will cheaper and covered by insurance with only needing one injection every 2 years as well as being cardio protective.

[@hardmtnbiker]

Work on maximizing your body’s ability to function efficiently, naturally. I think too many men think that they will go on TRT and it will remedy all the decades of neglecting their body’s own abilities to increase athletic performance. It’s not just about being less stressful but how about a clean diet, daily exercise, proper hydration, proper supplements, sleep hygiene. Improving endurance and evaluation of max watts or increasing your VO2 max and HRV. Perhaps the path of most resistance that few men will ever take since they can solve their problems with a testosterone replacement therapy the rest of thier lives and will feel amazing doing it that way.

[@Lucas_Jeffrey]

enclomiphene and blood work would be a simple test. if it raises your T level significantly, it's a pituitary issue. If it doesn't affect your T at all, it could be gonads, but could also be that your pituitary won't produce LH even with reduced estrogen activity

[@marshallsaltzman9924]

See how you respond to clomid or hcg

[@bearclaw5115]

Exogenous testosterone given in a therapeutically active dose will always shut down your natural production. Which is fine if you are dependent on taking T and will do so for life. Way too many guys think "Well I'll try it for a while" and dabble with it here and there. Much better to see where your at, take action to improve your health and try to raise it naturally. If that doesn't work then go ahead and got on T knowing it's for the long haul.

[@tzahi12370]

Do you think that high estrogen on TRT can cause acne ? Dht is blocked almost completely with dutasteride so its not from Dht , someone knows what can cause it ? I had acne since the beggining on TRT

[@johncasper8193]

Give yourself more time, 4 weeks is not enough time. Check your T again in 2 months. After 2 months, if your T does not come up, You might need to increase your dose.

[@tzahi12370]

@@johncasper8193 what??? Are you talking to me??

[@johncasper8193]

@@tzahi12370 yes

[@tzahi12370]

@@johncasper8193 Im on TRT for 4 years!..my problem is acne nothing else

[@israelh.2259]

I’m 27 5’11 175. Looking to get on trt, been feeling the symptoms low energy, fatigue etc. thought it was relating back to depression but don’t wanna get in the medication. Will be getting my blood work next couple weeks.

[@israelh.2259]

@user-ec9hb3bo7m thanks!!

[@mrtee3477]

@user-ec9hb3bo7mSTOP!. You do not require scientists for this; this has been around for decades.

[@SixFive8]

​@user-ec9hb3bo7m its easy to plan workouts in your head on low T its is depressingly difficult to do it no matter how much will power.

[@maodanz1672]

Try shilajit ,nor tongat ,try icing boys o sugar or alch. No cannabis legs heavy day per week you want to be on trt forever ?

[@mattb7406]

Plz interview Dr Gil T for TRT. He is awesome!

[@bearclaw5115]

He is awesome but his expertise is more on the nutritional side of things. If you want to talk T, Derek is at the top of a short list.

[@robertworton2394]

You guys didn’t mention the scrotal cream that’s working for a lot of guys that’s strange because I would think that would be something more important to talk about other than that Dom nasal spray

[@JK-vb6ju]

Did blood work and low test doc prescribed me test amd i do half cc a week no side effects at 44yrs if needed i will do half cc my whole life

[@fdsm9211]

I started TRT at 37 (45 now) My total T was in the 200s but I was fat and unhealthy. I might have jumped the gun yes I admit. Thankfuly I did it after having children. I have to say that I feel very strong in the gym and I don't lose muscles easily with lower body fat. I actually look better than when I was in my 20s and training. I take my shots every other day and no side effects ( I have high BP but that's genetic and controlled now). To me, I have no regrets what so ever. One serious negative is that libido is very high. It's not always fun when you have to work.

[@MrCites1]

Have you considered doing a bukkake party?

[@fdsm9211]

@@MrCites1 I am too much of a boring person to do that.

[@markm4380]

So would it then make more sense to take daily? Seems likely. Plus some of the orals may flow better with a more natural test rhythm plus I think they are better for red blood testing. Might not get you to super high levels but people who just want standard levels. Is there a good oral vs gel vs injection video?

[@Pieter_Lion]

Anyone knows if its always needed to donate blood? Like say if you inject more frequently can you avoid having your hematocrit rise to dangerous levels? It seems like a pain in the *ss to have to donate blood every few months and I would like to know if there’s a way around it

[@nateh6441]

I've been on 6 years never had dangerous Hematocrit

[@Pieter_Lion]

@@nateh6441 whats your protocol then?

[@1888CHAD8881]

Anyone above 30 should get levels checked. Literally as important as blood pressure. Low T causes a ton of health issues.

[@cannabros]

absolutely! especially with all the processed food that have invaded our food supply!

[@ddotmuzik5324]

Should i be pinning mon and thurs on cyp for better results or once every 7 days?

[@fivebooks8498]

He said in the video a min of twice per week but every day is optimal.

[@brandonm8568]

When pinning cypionate subQ daily, what gauge needle do you recommend?

[@sdean4816]

I’ve been using a 27 gauge 1/2 inch needle for 7 years and it works great. There is no need to use anything larger.

[@sdean4816]

I just read your post more carefully. If you’re doing daily I would use an insulin syringe that’s 30 gauge and 1/2 inch. I personally question why some people go to the daily route since cypionate has around a seven day half-life. If you’re not totally sold on daily I would try three days a week first then if that doesn’t work satisfactorily up to seven if you want. That’s a lot of holes and a big pain in the butt if you ask me

[@user-og8kb4yk6k]

I do microdosing daily injectjons wherever the needle will go. Testosterone cypionate 160mg a week. So about .12ml per day. I have minimal side effects estrogen and prolactin stay in check. Zero issues with hematocrit and hemoglobin. Free test around 278. And total test 750ng/dl 24 hours after my injection. Ive tried every protcol known. This works best for me

[@RedOakCrow]

A Bulgarian doctor I follow says that most men with Low Test do need TRT, but it's Thyroid Replacement Therapy that's actually needed.

[@Irish_Goodbye_Guy]

I’m 54 year old and feel horrible. I just got tested and I’m at 70 ng/dl. My doc prescribed 200mg once per month. I hope it helps.

[@garethredfern8780]

How can i convince my doctor to increase my dosage. Do 1 shot every 2 weeks. He says i am " normal"

[@HBeretta]

Caffeine spikes cortisol...is this an issue with T levels?

[@thedamon221]

I didn't understand a dang bit of this video. I went to one of those men's clinics and they told me I needed to take t shots. I saw my doctor and he said he didn't recommend it. I think my test level was 190. I don't know what to do or who to see who knows about this.

[@brettarsenault6573]

Same. Did it anyway. Got my life back. You choose your own path. low t will make you not take chances. Consider that influence in your decision.

[@jdl2180]

That should be a very easy decision when your numbers are that low!

[@innocentbystander8038]

190 is way low. General medical practitioners usually have no clue about this stuff. If I was you, I would run with the T clinic. But your choice, obviously.

[@allthecommonsense]

Drs are idiots.

[@mattarndt4452]

It’s mainly about whether you have symptoms of hypothyroidism. Symptoms like low libido, low energy, inability to burn fat and difficulty building muscle, to name a few. 190 is very low for total testosterone. I would be surprised if you aren’t experiencing symptoms.

[@cshan159]

Does any do daily? What needles to use for such small dose?

[@syberspy9]

Insulin needles

[@Josephv3848]

Why aren’t they discussing the T gel? I’m 58 and been on gel for 18 years daily. Amazing. Now Hemaocrit over 50 for first time. 🤔

[@johncasper8193]

I like the T gel also, works great for me. What I’ve heard there are absorption problems for some people. Some people it doesn’t work.

[@travissmith-wz5nc]

37 with 170 total t. Went on test endosate levels completely went away. Dr switched to test cypinate. 30 ml 2x a week. 800 total t now.

[@mkinvincible]

What is your lifestyle ? Weight ? Any medical problems?

[@travissmith-wz5nc]

@mkinvincible 5'11 200. 33 waist. Had a ultrasound on the boys one is only getting 40% blood flow

[@mkinvincible]

@@travissmith-wz5nc​​⁠damn! Sorry to hear that. Do you have an arterial malformation that decreases the blood flow to the boys? I am 6 feet and was 205 pounds. I went to low 180's and feel great. I think the 20 pounds more were screwing me up plus high stress levels. Now I am sleeping more. You should try to cut 25 pounds and optimize your sleep. It should help.

[@travissmith-wz5nc]

@@mkinvincible old wrestling injury

[@mkinvincible]

@@travissmith-wz5ncgot you. It's what it's then. It sounds like you should talk to your primary care doc and he/she should consider the replacement for you. Best of luck.

[@DoctorHemi]

I'm surprised they didn't discuss the new daily oral TRT options (sold under the brand names Kyzatrex, Jatenzo and Tlando). Because it's pill form, it's more convenient than pinning daily and it's only twice/day instead of 3-times/day of Natesto.

[@StelioKontoss]

Because its new, injections have been studied and done for a long time, they are safe and effective. Pinning > any other method.

[@bogrunberger]

Afaik oral testosterone is hard on your liver and often not preferred.

[@HappyWolverine]

Omg stop You don't need to pin daily on trt Twice a week for me with insulin pin on delt. Couldn't be easier

[@DoctorHemi]

@@HappyWolverine, agreed, but they discuss people who want to pin daily. My only point was that the oral TRT options would (somewhat) mimic that.

[@ryanroseevans]

Problem you have with any oral version is bioavailbilty and your guts optimisation to break it all down and utilise it efficiently. Pinning is a lot more accurate

[@obcane3072]

Injecting SQ has been shown to hit steady state in 6 hours and then begin a slow taper but will be still be in therapeutic range. Study used 100mg and it showed wide variance testosteronw levels: ranged from 600 to 1100. I have my patients take q5-7 depending on patient preference and have them check test level in 3 days. Danger in females is that the pharmacist prescribes the 1mL vial per week and some patients don't want to waste it so they inject the full 200 mg. Have had some patients with free test of 30. Never prescribe IM.

[@mrcmdjd57]

I use 15 mg T-cyp sub Q q AM as I feel this gets as close as possible to the system designed by nature.

[@davidbennemann]

have to disagree - desinged by nature means you have ups and downs. but with daily injections and the half life of 4,5 days, you dont have downs. only with cream you could mimic nature.

[@StelioKontoss]

Before or after coffe?🤣🤭

[@Pieter_Lion]

Where do you inject? I take it thats a daily dose? Are you not running into issues like scar tissue buildup and lumps?

[@cshan159]

@@Pieter_LionI got same question

[@slimturnpike]

@@Pieter_Lion I stopped subQ for this very reason, lumps. Back on IM

[@JimmyRickards]

Im 52 my total testosterone is at 894 & my free testosterone is 281.8. On trt 1cc of test cypionate a week

[@BiHuSrcu]

dang those r great levels

[@projectmayhem2330]

I’m 40, loved TRT, have genuine low test, never touched PEDS. Had to stop, was killing my hair, even on finasteride. I’m too vein lol I’ll feel sluggish and skinny and keep my thick head of hair

[@MrAndy9188]

I would rather lose the hair than feel terrible. I believe low test also has a cascade effect in other areas of metabolic health.

[@PianoJMM85]

I second that.

[@jaytpmc]

Gonna lose your hair no matter what 🤷

[@Kstephens07]

Get on fin and min and spread dose more frequently to prevent DHT spikes

[@BiHuSrcu]

f the hair

[@rishidhingra319]

gold.

[@keithzastrow]

meh....I've been doing 200mg IM q 2 weeks for years now. I have my level checked annually. PIA to do it any more often than that.

[@blaisenbuds5879]

I’m 33 an been on methadone for 10 years it’s ruin my metabolic health I’m hypogonadle my test levels were below 100. I know once I get off methadone my levels will go back to normal but until then I’ve decided to start trt 250 mg a week. Sucks but I was tired of feeling like shit all the time. Hopefully once I get off methadone my body will return back to normal opioids synthetic an illicit will ruin ur metabolic health

[@pdsting3321]

How likely it is to get hypogonadism in one testicled man?

[@strongjaymusicgroup]

TRT is life

[@Austin-uq9ms]

28 year old police officer with 10 years in. got my test check and total was 301 doc prescribed 100mg once a week, 4 weeks later it only went up 348. Explain

[@vitaly6312]

Are you on 3rd shift? How’s your sleep?

[@AaRoNaNtHoNy80]

I am 44, I was diagnosed with hypogonadism at 43. My insurance won't help because they label it as a "lifestyle choice". I don't know what to do at this point.

[@user-xh1if2hi2u]

Viking alternative.

[@firstgensps]

tyty Spin more Plates!

[@frank2024free]

Is there cancer risk associated to TRT treatment?

[@BiHuSrcu]

They suspect prostate, but no definitive data to prove it, however it does increase cardiovascular problems…

[@billmoskal8463]

I’ve been having a sever side effect at the injection sight for my TRT. 24 hours after the injection I would have extreme pain for 4-5 days afterwards. Unable to walk …. I was told I’m allergic to testosterone. Is there another explanation ??

[@Jimbo-fv4ek]

Could be that you're allergic to either the specific oil and or preservative being used for whatever brand of test you're using. Try another injection site using a much smaller dose and if it still persists then you need to get your doctor to perscribe you a specific brand that uses another oil or even have it compounded with a specific oil and or preservative that you can tolerate.

[@billmoskal8463]

Thank you

[@billmoskal8463]

Dumb question but it there a quality difference between companies?

[@Jimbo-fv4ek]

@@billmoskal8463 not that I've noticed tbh. As long as it's coming from a legit pharmacy you should be fine.

[@Jimbo-fv4ek]

@@billmoskal8463 just for reference, the stuff I use is from a compounding pharmacy and is in a grapeseed oil base which is generally seen as one of the more well tolerated oils.

[@Stoneman1270]

Based on not "blasting" or taking a single shot of 250mg. a week. What are the thought on the Pellets? Wouldn't that logically be the best dosage frequency?

[@cain6981]

I did pellets for 2 years, would not recommend. It's advertised as a slow steady release, but as a man they have to put so many pellets into your butt cheek everytime I would be sitting down they would get smushed and be releasing test.. so very front loaded in the test release.. they were supposed to last 6 months but I'd feel a drop-off after 3 months and basically done by 4-4.5 months. Injections are the way from everything I've learned and experienced

[@JosephAbdo-t9n]

For me I was 38 got my labs done for normal health check my dock added metabolic panel and hormones. I was 163 total testosterone. She told me to go exercise, eat better loose weight and sleep come back and we test again. I did that for a few months, came back I was 201, weeks tested 90 days later I was 178. I started TRT that week and it changed my life I sit at 750-800 and have taken years to dial it in and I’m still learning. It’s a choice and a lifestyle you will have to live with once you start there really is no going back if you are truly suffering from male hypogonadism.

[@mparente2]

If possible, why not just take a SERM? Clomiphene works well.

[@LuckyHunter-er2mb]

I live in a shitty country where i can't get trt. I'm 45 and i feel my testosterone is low. I can get below the counter testosterone, but i'm afraid to take it as trt..

[@user-sy3wd5jn4n]

So many great questions asked. Yet none of them really answered.

[@matthewherren]

Two questions from a watch guy: 1. What watch are you wearing? 2. What watch poster is on the wall?

[@Slickone-wk9mc]

Im 50 yrs old. 185 lbs. I bench and squat twice my body weight.. 5’8” with a 32” waist… im on 150 mills a week of Test Cyp amd life couldn’t be better.. i make it threw the work day now, my wife is happier, im happier and more confident. I was a thin hardgainer with low test at 200 nanos per deciliter.. 165 pounds weak no energy… pecker didnt work that well and life was just a struggle daily.. My wife and I work out together. Eat one ingredient foods, pound the water, sleep well and the rest works its self out. These gatekeepers in the fitness world need to get over themselves.. just cause you dont fuck with dont mean others shouldn’t.

[@dustinb2258]

So the 200mg I’m prescribed is leaving me with ups and downs and I’d be better off doing a shot once a week at the very least?

[@hardmtnbiker]

Obviously TRT/HRT is becoming more popular but I’m curious about how many men that prescribed to this therapy are risking other problems.

[@Lucas_Jeffrey]

there is certainly unavoidable consequences. but there are serious consequences to living with chronically low testosterone. Low T increases the excess mortality risk for men. it's a risk equation different for everyone.

[@bearclaw5115]

It's riskier to have low T than T in the proper therapeutic range. The only exception to this is if a man has had low T for many decades and then suddenly boosts it. There is an increased chance of stroke in those individuals for one year after which risk goes back to baseline. In other words addressing the problem earlier than later is safer.

[@hardmtnbiker]

@@Lucas_Jeffrey there are serious consequences to have a low GFR or having HTN or Diabetes from years of abuse and neglect of consistent exercise, just saying.

[@ryanroseevans]

Id rather live to 65 optimal and thriving that 90 like a pile of dog crap.

[@hardmtnbiker]

I seriously don’t think these practices that promote “Men’s Health” actually address the collateral damage of possibly renal failure possible stroke and other serious complications from stressing a broken done cardiovascular system with weak organs.

[@destn76]

Where is the best spot to inject. To benefit the most if there is.

[@Microking4u]

Anyone try enclomephene?

[@gagethent4710]

Your mom has.

[@jamesbunnett1694]

I don't really care what is natural per say. Is it safe to do trt at a reasonable level, continuously? At 175mg a week pinned twice weekly, I had never felt so good...... i don't think we live 'natural' lives these days. As a tradesman I am physically on the tools and running a company so I have physical and mental stress at least 10 hours a day. I love my job, just want the energy I need to do it effectively

[@entropicdoom8018]

At age 43 last year, I got my test measured. I was at 290ng/dl for total and 72ng/dl free test. My urologist said I needed TRT. It sounds like from this video and comments that while my total test is low, my free test is decent. I started TRT at 50 mg every 2 weeks. Blood work showed no change in test levels. Did 100mg every week, test was at 700-800. Noticed improved mood, mental clarity, and labido. Increased to 150-200 every week and test was at 1200ng/dl. At this level i saw further improvement in focus, mood, and libido. Moreover, I saw dropped 10% body fat. Muscle retention when sick and not eating is much better. I would lose 20 lbs of muscle during a bought of food poisoning. Now i lose less than half that. However, I get acne on muscle groups areas that I am particularly focusig on that week. Definitely needed to stay on top of more frequent showers an showering immediately after sweating a lot. I will be staying at 150-200mg per week.

[@XARIER39]

I don't like when two experts talk to each other about this. It's like they don't consider the audience's relative knowledge. I do like when Derek talks about it to his own audience on his channel because he understands how to word or phrase information so that the average gym goer can understand.

[@fivebooks8498]

So for example they were talking about FSH and LH being low versus the testicles just not working. So your body puts out a signal called FSH and LH and that tells your testicles to make testosterone. Sometimes your body is putting the signal out good but the testicles aren’t working. In that case they were saying it’s best to just get on exogenous testosterone. But if your testicles work fine but you’re just not putting off the FSH and LH signals for them to make it then sometimes it’s better to figure out why those signals are low. It could be diet or lack of sleep. Also they were talking about the half life’s of the different types of test. There’s an ester attached to the testosterone that basically acts as a timed release mechanism. Whatever kind of ester used will determine how often you need to inject. However they were saying that regardless of that if you divide the dose up and inject every day or every other day helps keep estrogen low.

[@Reutzel507]

Propionate daily for me. Estrogen response is much less compared to injecting 1-2x of Cypionate.

[@bearclaw5115]

Propionate is a very irritating ester to inject (kind of feels like you got stung). You could use cyp daily and get the same effect.

[@BB2001.]

i get crazy post injection pain with propionate even with the best carrier oils.

[@Reutzel507]

@@BB2001. I did right away. I am only pinning 3/10th cc a day. I use an insulin syringe. 30 units.

[@HappyWolverine]

Twice a week with insulin pin in delt. Couldn't be easier Thank me later

[@tzahi12370]

Do you think high estrogen on TRT can cause acne?

[@quantumfx2677]

I have done subQ and went back to mon-thurs and have been fine with it. Some still do the once a week and that doesn't work for me. I have found subQ a bit of a problem after getting too many pokes at least after a year as we are talking about an everyday injection, of course, the needle is tiny leaving less scarce tissue but this is not the case at least for me after a year as that is a heck of a lot of injections so I think its has its limits and may be why guys love it at first and after awhile they are looking for to places to inject and finding it also over time not as effective. We now know even with subQ if someone keeps injections in the same spot after a couple of months they say they find it not as effective, I believe that the small amount of scar tissue has built up enough from so many injections that it's being slowed down in its ability for good absorption. Just my opinion and what I have seen over the years. Works great at first but we have to remember just because it's a tiny needle it still leaves scar tissue over time with so many daily injections and we are constantly looking for new places to inject. I think after a while you will end up hitting a spot that starts to build scar tissue which slows down the absorption of the oil getting trapped in scar tissue. Then back to intermuscular injections. But with LH TRT coming it will put an end to all of these issues.

[@Lucas_Jeffrey]

there's adipose tissue all over your body. with gentle injection technique there is not much scar tissue to speak of. having sustained 700-800 ng/dL every day, eventually you'd get used to it and it won't feel like it used to. I don't think this has anything to do with absorption.

[@StelioKontoss]

Way less scar tissue into fat than piercing muscle tissue, use an insulin needle size, theres fat everywhere change spot and dont inject too much. IM won't be better at limiting scar tissue, on the contrary

[@bearclaw5115]

The scar tissue is a reaction to the shitty cottonseed oil they use in many injectable testosterone preparations. If they used grapeseed oil it would be much less irritating on our bodies. Even dealers in Mexico are thoughtful enough to use better oils! Very annoying because they are only saving a few cents per injection and you get some nasty lumps that last months at least. The scar tissue has nothing to do with the needle itself.

[@NorthCountry84]

TRT gave me crazy anxiety and panic attacks. However, I am predisposed for anxiety. Both injection and Natesto. Androgel didn’t absorb so nothing good or bad from that. Wish I could figure out how to avoid that. I know onion in a small subset of guys that have that reaction.

[@bearclaw5115]

Seems psychosomatic to me. Definitely not a typical reaction. Having an appropriate T level usually makes you smoother and more relaxed and more emotionally stable.

[@DeusExMachina50]

I had the same reaction when I first started TRT. So I cut my dose in half for a month and eventually I was able to titrate up without any anxiety or panic attacks.

[@HappyWolverine]

Trt had NOTHING to do with your anxiety, as long as you were in normal range It's like saying breathingbair gave you anxiety lol Testosterone is endogenous bro

[@DeusExMachina50]

@@HappyWolverine With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. Testosterone can stimulate the sympathetic nervous system.

[@Kstephens07]

What was your dose? How frequently did you inject?

[@cupidxon]

I received my testosterone bloodtest yesterday ( I am 100% natural) , they are totally normal, but i have some questions. Results : - Total Testosterone : •839 ng/dl - Free Testosterone : •16,3 ng/dl (I did the conversion to ng/dl to make it more understandable, lab result was showing 0,163 ng/ml) - Bioavalaible testosterone : •450 ng/dl, which is about 53,7 % of my Total T. SHBG : 37,7 nmol/l (Lab reference range : 17 - 77 nmol/l ) My questions are : 1. If i reduce my SHBG levels to the strict healthy minimum , (Let’s say 20 nmol/l ) can my Free Testosterone levels potentially double ? And reach the optimal range which goes from 18 to 25 ng/dl ? 2. Is my bioavalaible testosterone slightly high ? (Because in most people Test results i see , bioavalaible testosterone rarely exceed 50% of Total T) Is it good/bad to have more than 50% of your testosterone bioavalaible ? What are the benefits/side effects ? 3. I did a first testosterone test 2 months ago and my Total Testosterone was 737 ng/dl but my SHBG levels were EXACTLY the SAME (37,7 nmol/l) Considering the fact that my total testosterone increased from 737 ng/dl to 839 ng/dl in a 2 months scale whitout ANY CHANGE in SHBG levels, can it indicate a good body endocrine function ? Or is it something else ? Thank you a lot if you respond to those questions, i always reach to professionals like you.

[@jackleander4194]

I love it! get saucey!

[@jp7357]

66yo, get T pellets, T between 700-1000 for 5 months. Don’t care about free T … just care that I feel great and “all systems on high alert”.

[@bobwilliams9061]

Ha hahahah “all systems on high alert” so woody is A-OK. Ive thought of starting at age 64 put concerned with heart issues.

[@jp7357]

@@bobwilliams9061 I’ve been on statins for years and had a ct angiogram .. calcium:0 “no vessel,disease” .. I would imagine that high T would probably help to keep arteries flexible. I also run 4mi/day and do CrossFit 3d/week .. not that concerned about dying .. but .. do like getting laid without worrying about “lack of interest” all the cialis on the planet won’t fix erectile boredom ..

[@StelioKontoss]

Well sir you feel great because free T must be OK 😂

[@bearclaw5115]

Well you should care about free T because that is what is doing all the work to make you feel better. The rest is bound and not active.

[@jp7357]

@@bearclaw5115 SHBG is fine so nothing can be done about fee T so what’s the point of worrying. The only way to increase free T is by increasing total T and mine is maxed.

[@matthewswearingen3386]

I'm 25 with a total test levels of 140 I take 1cc a week and feel very little difference.

[@mackies9151]

Yall against the 1.62% gel? 4 pumps gets me between 450-650. Not great but no needles and $20 month on insurance.

[@NoahFlemingConsulting]

Not good if you have children around.

[@BiHuSrcu]

boy i ll put that needle in me singing for a better effect

[@jassdsu]

There are no shortcuts. No easy button. Not enough research for the magic medicines and reminds me of estrogen therapy for menopause in the 90s. This led to widespread breast cancer but took many years to show.

[@TheOfficialLavish]

Can testosterone enhance anxiety or panic attacks, or create?

[@btk03z19]

I regret ever going on TRT..... I have been on over 10 years under a physician, I have tried bi-weekly, tri-weekly, daily injections, I have tried cyp, prop and cyp/prop combos. My doses have never been ridiculous... they are small to achieve/maintain physiologic levels.. Currently I am on 12mg's of Prop daily... anyway.. since being on TRT my sleep has been non-existant/destroyed (severe apnea developed since starting trt), I do not see any amazing benefits in the gym (most likely due to lack of sleep).......... Although my numbers on paper look great/optimized, I certainly don't feel that way.... seems like I spent half my time on TRT chasing numbers and now spent the other half just trying to feel good and never been able to get dialed in... so with that said, At the end of the summer I am going to go off TRT.... so if anyone has a good protocol for going off trt I would very much appreciate it.

[@ryanroseevans]

Maybe its no the TRT thats the issue, TRT wont save your entire life if you still have your own stuff to work through.

[@btk03z19]

@@ryanroseevans its the trt....there is a documented relationship between trt and apnea. Never had issues with sleep/apnea until starting trt. I know the apnea /lack of sleep is the cause of all my issues which is directly linked to my trt.

[@Twelve20Inc.]

@@btk03z19 That sucks to hear. I have experienced nothing but positives on TRT other than holding water if my diet gets even a little off. I am assuming you use a CPAP? Ive had apnea for 15 years and must use a CPAP to stay alive. I had to start taping my mouth shut after starting TRT.

[@btk03z19]

@@Twelve20Inc. Ive tried cpap (for about 3months) and just couldn't get used to it.. only other option is maybe look into bi-pap.

[@johndahl7309]

I’m off TRT and much better!!!

[@ezumach]

Gentlemen, I am 6 foot one, 185 pounds with abs, and I’ve had visible abs most of my life. I am 41 years old, and testosterone last blood test was 927. I have never taken any steroids. I don’t drink alcohol, I don’t have social media, I don’t watch porn. I live my life outdoors, go to the gym four days a week and lift, hike, play music. It is 1000% all about how you live your life. Stop listening to the snake oil salesman. None of these guys on testosterone look good at all. And it will age you like crazy. Live your life outdoors, doing things, put down the phone, stop watching porn, and have a healthy sex life and have sex every day, do not masturbate. This is my advice.

[@BiHuSrcu]

u r lying about ur levels!!!!

[@johncasper8193]

That’s a normal T level for a 41-year-old.