Petra Goedegebuure | Luwian Hieroglyphs: An Indigenous Anatolian Syllabic Script

Luwian Hieroglyphs: An Indigenous Anatolian Syllabic Script from 3,500 Years Ago
The Oriental Institute Lecture Series, organized by the University of Chicago, brings notable scholars from around the country and abroad to present on new breakthroughs, unique perspectives, and innovative research applications related to the Ancient Middle East.
Cuneiform writing on clay became wildly popular among the governing elites of the Ancient Near East. Although some societies, such as Egypt, only used cuneiform for their international correspondence, the Anatolians additionally adopted cuneiform for domestic use to write Hittite, Luwian, Hattic, and several other languages. But they also developed their own hieroglyphic script for inscriptions in Luwian only. Among other topics, this lecture explores where it came from, how widely it was used, and who could read it. Presented by Petra Goedegebuure, Associate Professor of Hittitology, Oriental Institute, University of Chicago.
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[@Maarttttt]

I love these kinds of talks on ancient writing! Thank you for making it available for the general public.

[@thormusique]

Excellent presentation, thank you! It will be interesting to see how much more we might be able to decipher with further research.

[@MinaMegalla]

Learned a lot! Thank you for sharing!

[@Vandal_Savage]

Excellent lecture, thanks for the upload! :)

[@onurekici938]

Thank you for your efforts

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

Wonderful - more, more, more from the Oriental Institute, please! Note: you would likely get many more donors if you could use Patreon. I don’t know if that works with universities, etc., perhaps it could go into a non-profit “designated funds”accounts. It is easier for us low-income people to donate that way. Fascinated, educated, but broke!

[@PalofGrrr]

Thank you doctor. This was worth seeing

[@handler8838]

while the new video style of having the presentation and the speaker is cool looking, one can't follow what any speaker is pointing at since its not a shot of the screen but of the PowerPoint what we are seeing.

[@ISAC_UChicago]

+han dler Thank you for the feedback! We will keep that in mind as we film in the future.

[@jeppejacobsen2825]

Or just remind the speakers to point to maps and illustrations with "words" perhaps?

[@jeppejacobsen2825]

You have a very large following here - dear Oriental Institute why do you not upload more videos? This is possibly the best youtube channel of them all, immensely valuable work, enlightenment as it should be.

[@ISAC_UChicago]

+Jeppe Jacobsen Thank you! Our video recordings are funded by our members and donors - we would love to record more!

[@susamekmek3101]

The Oriental Institude+ t-The mose cursor may be used instead of a pointer maybe, if that is practical. Lecturers did so in some webinars that I have attended.

[@frodobaggins629]

The sign for city represents the mounded built up towns such as Çatalhöyük, that in our period look like hills. What is interesting is the similarity between Çatalhöyük and Göbekli Tepe

[@christianschultz4985]

Not versed in this era of history, but aren’t these cites relatively close to one another. Could one have been a successor to the other?

[@perplexedmoth]

​@@christianschultz4985Yes they are pretty close. Even Luwians are not far. They are all in Anatolia.

[@gokhanylmaz2351]

thank you g.yilmaz

[@kamion53]

Do I have it right that cuniform Luwian predates hieroglyfic Luwian? Which I think it strange because most writing systems have an origin in pictograms that evolve into stylised pictograms, which evolve in letters or logograms.

[@salihsoslu629]

This work and presentation are the quitely a succesful. But unforget! Luwian'a are the Anatolian "indigenious peoples".

[@carveraugustus3840]

Fascinating

[@elainestewart4482]

Love it

[@ISAC_UChicago]

+Elaine Stewart Glad you enjoyed it!

[@veronicalogotheti5416]

Thank you

[@MagnumInnominandum]

I need a lover that will drive me crazy and discuss Luwian Hieroglyphs after...

[@vassilopoula]

I know one but he's only good in Norse runes, should I tell him?

[@americalost5100]

Is she using a laser pointer or something? Because can't follow when she says here and here and here

[@FMTRIP]

Love it!

[@patdossenko1820]

so is there a conection between golbee teppe rock carvings and the luwien heiraglyphs?

[@AizenJoestar42]

Hey, i found an hiéroglyphes ( i think ?) İn Turkey, can i share you the picture so you tell me what exactly this is ?

[@ISAC_UChicago]

Hi Aizen! You can find contact information for all our faculty on our Website, oi.uchicago.edu, and send an e-mail.

[@AizenJoestar42]

@@ISAC_UChicago Thanks, gonna do this right now

[@AnaSofia-xe2wg]

What was it?

[@AizenJoestar42]

@@AnaSofia-xe2wg I don't know they didn't answer me back

[@samisiddiqi5411]

It's been a year or two did they say anything

[@paul6925]

Good speaker

[@lsatsaga]

I was expecting to see some info about the Luwian seal found in Troy.

[@hallerd]

Good

[@MrBeiragua]

Remember that logographics and syllabograms based scripts are easier to read than to write. People can learn a handful of these signs through everyday use, even if they can't read everything.

[@pacificatalent881]

I am writing about ancient voyaging to Pacific...do scholars at Oriental Institute know of records of voyaging to Americas aand Pacific from Anatolia area?

[@ISAC_UChicago]

Feel free to reach out to Prof. Goedegebuure, you can find her contact information on our website! (kb)

[@camilomorais5810]

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@enkisonofanu2301]

I guess it's a difficult topic to explore being one of 20 people that can read this stuff

[@lallyoisin]

What is origin of word "Luwiya" does it have a meaning?

[@rainhawk5264]

Not spelled Luwian...but Churubian...like the Kurdish Luri =Churi/Khurri/(C)Hurrian

[@rainhawk5264]

@Ali Kılıç nonsense. keep your turkish logic for yourself.

[@rainhawk5264]

@Ali Kılıç hahahahaha..I cannot take you seriously mate...Indo-European languages are: Germanic, Iranic (also Kurdish), Celtic, Slavic, Greek, Armenian And like it or not...that is a fact...and no it is called Churri..and Churrian...and yes in Kurdish sun means CHOR...you know like the "CHOR" - the "Egyptian" sun god...because the light-skinned Churi from the Zagros Mountains brought also agriculture to North Africa...like it or not the agricultural revolution was spread by the people of Kur/Chur -Zagros Mountain---and as far as we know the light skin came with the first agriculture....

[@rainhawk5264]

@Ali Kılıç hahahahahaha....hahahahahaha....hahahha....get educated man

[@rainhawk5264]

@Ali Kılıç hahahahah....hahahhah.... get educated man..Kurdish is an Indo-European language...that is a facct

[@JulesSoth]

Colony of Uruk?

[@Melissa-tz9hv]

Slides full screen please can’t see! Don’t need to always see speaker.

[@vecvan]

16:48 "Logogramm - Logogrrramm, I'm sorry, *Logogramm*" What was that all about?

[@pacificatalent881]

I AM SEEKING PROTO LUWIAN GLYPHS REFERRING TO LONG DISTANCE VOYAGING AND GLYPHS CLOSEST TO INDUS VALLEY SCRIPT QUITE LIKE RONGO RONGO OF RAPA NUI ON BOARDS... GLYPHS READING L TO R THEN R TO L

[@richardscales9560]

Good information by I think the style of presentation could be improved.

[@klausjackklaus]

interesting that kata and katta are same for down, just in Greek and Hittite, I guess that's one of the ways you can tell that Greek and Hittite are both Indo-European languages

[@johnleake5657]

That struck me, too, though we need to be careful about reading too much from one isolated correspondence, of course.

[@klausjackklaus]

@@johnleake5657 yes i am aware. i turned down a $24,000 scholarship in linguistics to go to school for medicinal chemistry. will probably get my linguistics degree at some point but just paying off current student debts

[@vecvan]

Doubt it. Compare Arabic *kara* "to prostrate oneself" (namaste).

[@Dryfee]

44 thousand and counting.

[@Etic335]

Piya is in Kurdish language means Arm, hand

[@redhornsms2649]

Pi is arm Piya is both arm together

[@reefjosey1947]

luvians were a community of many races and interested in religions not races. thats why everyone used their gods, %90 of anatolian city names like İzmir, istanbul, manisa, konya, adana, hatay, erzincan, adıyaman, urfa, van and many others and are actually coming from luwian language. Turkish 'Tepe' is luwian word. also zazaki MA is Luvian word. Troia in Çanakkale is also Luwian origin. and Troians were speaking Luwian. they were oldest anatolian comminity. so their language is also living in many languages that today speaking in Anatolia.

[@wexqlp3863]

@@reefjosey1947 - Luwian is the ancestors of Kurdish language of Kurmanji and Zazaki.

[@enckidoofalling2883]

Wonderful accompanying lecture to Seth Fleishman’s lectures (world history by a Jew)

[@fun1comes]

It just goes on and on.....Oriental confusion

[@ArchLingAdvNolan]

TONITRUS = Thunderous, the storm god

[@ForceOfUru]

If you claim an etymological bond, that is far fetched. Also consider checking Tarkuna, the thunder god (one of many in Anatolia).

[@mafabarzani9621]

Great presentation and good education history so sad to see the Turk and even the kurds don’t know howmuch is important .

[@zaboybagoi8636]

They dont have to do.Turk is Siberian, Kurd is Iranian.

[@haticekelek9595]

We know how important the history of Anatolia is. Believe or not there are millions of people who appreciate the rich history of this land.

[@kashmagoorun2900]

​@@zaboybagoi8636hhhh kurd are not iranian 😂

[@shapasha6266]

Luwians or sound\Lovi\ too are Kurdish now!!! Those employers as Hittites Sobarto Gouti Babylon Media Hurries Amazons and more all of theme kurdish people now!! They dont mantion kurdish name because political UN case..

[@EasternOrthodox101]

Had you people just followed the Bible, you would know that the Luwians are the Lydians, and their original name is Lud (son of Shem). They were not of European origin, they were Semites. In the Bible, Pul & Lud who draw the bow = Pala & Luwia, which were some of the sea peoples.

[@DevoteeofThunor]

The Bible has many historical errors

[@EasternOrthodox101]

@@DevoteeofThunor No, but i know one historical error -it's you western zombie🤣🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺

[@marchellabrahams]

Pul or Pwl and Lud are both British names, Luwian was spoken at Troy, and the British and Etruscans are cousins. Herodotus is being proved right time after time, and so are the British records.

[@EasternOrthodox101]

@@marchellabrahams Herodotus is proven only partially right time and time again. It has nothing to do with British names -british are Germanics (Magog) and Celts (Riphat). Language doesn't equal genetics Mr, many ancient peoples of Anatolia spoke Luwian - the language of the Semitic people - Lud.

[@marchellabrahams]

@@EasternOrthodox101 I can only suggest you read the British records with an open mind. There are so many more connections than appear tenable at present. And it's Mrs, by the way. It's wise to conduct internet discussions in a mannerly and friendly fashion, I think.

[@tavikoyabore5264]

The absorbing step-son fundamentally signal because refrigerator postoperatively risk on a courageous reward. torpid, wide-eyed peanut

[@veronicalogotheti5416]

What about ugarit

[@veronicalogotheti5416]

Uguagua

[@defaultname79]

Sure there's some similarities with kurdish language. Pi is hand Piya is the hand Azatiwada (az hatim we da) I moved forward

[@nelassal1]

Default Name fantastic connection!!! Txxx for the idea.

[@bobsmithradates7346]

False cognate. Azatiwad means "good sun god." Tiwad was the name of the sun god.

[@mirellajaber7704]

Bob Smithradates the “sun god” may just come from “he/she who moves forward”

[@bobsmithradates7346]

@@mirellajaber7704 Nope. Literally no chance. You're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Aza=good. Tiwad=the name of the sun god, from Proto-Indo-European Deyeus. Tiwad=Tiwaz/Tiwas in some dialects. Dios/Dias/Deus/Zeus all come from this same root.

[@bobsmithradates7346]

@@mirellajaber7704 "Aza" actually means "be loved by"/"dear to"...but it comes from "assu," which means "good." So Azatiwad is "loved by Tiwad/z" or "dear to Tiwad/z." Kurdish is an Iranic language--a direct translation of Azatiwad from Anatolian into Iranic be something like Vohudyaosh (that would be an Avestan version of Azatiwad). www.jstor.org/stable/40848616?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents oi.uchicago.edu/sites/oi.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/shared/docs/yakubovich_diss_2008.pdf Kurdish is Iranic. Luwian is Anatolian. They are as distantly related to one another as English is related to Kurdish. Perhaps even moreso.

[@veronicalogotheti5416]

Los pies de los griegos

[@NaderAbedrabbojanineh-nh1kr]

Hittite and Hurrian are Not Indo-European Names ... but Canaanites Hati , Hatusha etc ... Are Semite Names ... I don't know How a Culture That Worshiped The Storm God ( Baal-Hadad ) was Indo-European ???!!! What proof you have to Say is Indo-European ????!!!!

[@aryancyrus4183]

The oldest kurdish language great to see. Thank you all

[@bobsmithradates7346]

Kurdish: Iranic language spoken by a people from Central Asia who originally settled in the Zagros Mountains and didn't arrive in Turkey till after 1000 BCE. Related to Persians and Afghanis. Luwian: Anatolian language spoken by people from Asia Minor during the Bronze Age. Related to Hittites. I guess Armenian, Greek, and Celtic languages (Irish, Scottish, etc) must be Kurdish languages too. They were all spoken in Asia Minor before Kurdish too.

[@katmannsson]

@@bobsmithradates7346 Oh man its almost as if literally everything you just listed is a PIE language

[@reefjosey1947]

luvians were a community of many races and interested in religions not races. thats why everyone used their gods, %90 of anatolian city names like İzmir, istanbul, manisa, konya, adana, hatay, erzincan, adıyaman, urfa, van and many others are actually coming from luwian language.

[@EasternOrthodox101]

@Ali Kılıç Reef is right, they were Semites, they came originally from there, and don't give me that "indo-" stuff. They were Lud descendents of Shem.

[@reefjosey1947]

@Ali Kılıç youtube. com /watch?v=bOz_nTJg_-k in this video link 26:14 Luvian hieroglif found in Urfa. 27:25 in Adıyaman.

[@Kinetic-Energy117]

Not the biggest fan of an institute who 1st termed Egypt, which is Africa, part of this "oriental" word play started by JHB himself, and isn't much subscribed too by much of the scholar & science community... When your funded by Rockerfella, since the early 19th century, your an elite power politically, you can date what you want and when you fit suitable to fit a narrative, isochronously, leaving out debate, ignoring outside influenced science and not allowing opposing view (non of these speakers of Oriental Institute will open a sorta "causeway" for debate and views that oppose theirs), which is meant to be the cornerstone of science studies of all fields.. Analysis and researched work, only goes in the archeological record when it ranks supreme over debate and opposing analysis and research, a sorta counter-view based on same or other artifacts & findings, it shouldn't make its way into record just because "Oriental Institute" says so...

[@monadyne]

"Oriental" comes from the Latin word, "orientum", referring to "east", as the Latin word "occidentum" referred to "west." European scholars used the term to describe cultures to the east of Europe. The "East" was perhaps more dramatically charcterized by the Chinese and Japanese socioethnic groups. Much closer to Europe, but still with significant cultural differences, were the lands that were called, understandably, the Near East - - a term still in use today. There is no deprecating slur associated with the term "orient" but contemporary people my nonetheless take offense at its use, much as some persons would riot were they referred to as "Colored People" but are fine with being called "People of Color." The "causeway for debate" you referred to does exist. If someone has research and analysis which suggests different conclusions from those currently held by The Oriental Institute, one merely needs to collate their information in the form of a "paper" and submit it for peer-review. If the scholarship of the presentation is found to be sound, the paper can be presented to The Oriental Institute to be debated upon its merits. That exact process was referred to in this lecture, where a gentleman demonstrated that there were some words in common use in antiquity which were Hittite, not Luwian, in origin. Should vigorous debate ensue, whichever ideas best survive the gauntlet of inquiry will emerge with primacy. In other words, calm down. Just because the world of scholarship isn't "woke" and changing their long-established terms to suit the whims of the moment doesn't mean it is peopled by monsters supported by Robber Barons.

[@johnleake5657]

You might remember that Oriental (i.e. 'Eastern') to include Egypt is earlier than you are, I think, suggesting, and was a Western Christian (i.e. Catholic) term. For Western Christians, the Oriental Patriarchs were (and indeed are, historically) the Patriarchs of Constantinople, Antioch, Alexandria and Jerusalem, and the religious languages of the 'Eastern' Churches were be regarded as Oriental, i.e. Greek, Syriac, Armenian and Coptic, with Arabic as the language of contemporary Eastern Christians, and, above all, Hebrew, the holy tongue. You are making the mistake of assuming earlier users of the term were thinking in terms of continents, where I think they were thinking in terms of the Mediterranean, and the divisions of the late Roman world and its neighbours, and Egypt was certainly in the Eastern Med and the Eastern Roman empire.

[@vecvan]

It's not clear what you complain about. 36:30 Goedegebure admits she cannot identify foreign influences and suggests several possibilities. Earlier in the script she gives credit to pictographic writing beginning 3rd to 2nd millenium.

[@abdullamawlood5688]

Luwian people are Kurdish, in some area in Kurdistan their dialect very similar

[@andres6868]

what? Luwian is an Anatolian language, no Anatolian languages have been extanct for thousands of years. Kurdish is an Iranian language.

[@reefjosey1947]

luvians were a community of many races and interested in religions not races. thats why everyone used their gods, %90 of anatolian city names like İzmir, istanbul, manisa, konya, adana, hatay, erzincan, adıyaman, urfa, van and many others and are actually coming from luwian language. Turkish 'Tepe' is luwian word. also zazaki MA is Luvian word. Troia in Çanakkale is also Luwian origin. and Troians were speaking Luwian. they were oldest anatolian comminity. so their language is also living in many languages that today speaking in Anatolia.

[@kamion53]

Most likely the Kurds and the Luwians have the same etnic roots, but not the same linguistic roots. Roughly when you do a DNA research in what ever area you find that the population have 90% very ancient roots and at most 10% foreign roots. We tend to think that when a different language is spoken in an area then before it is due to invasion of population replacement. But mosttime the core population stays the same and only the elite is replaced

[@kamion53]

@@reefjosey1947 I too like to think the Troians spoke Luwian, but it depends a bit on what the lingua franca or trade language was. Mykenian Greek is a good candidate for the trade language and if so Priam, Hector and Paris ( or Alakasandu as in Hittite text) spoke Mykenian Greek, while their subjects spoke Luwian.

[@reefjosey1947]

@@kamion53 Luwians is not something an etnic concept. Anatolian origin group, The city-state community which no wars with each-other but trading. Today's Anatolian people (all of them) holds their genetic. that's why people living anatolia don't look like totally asian. the community starts from Thrace in Europe.

[@siyambonani8802]

Are you guys happy you know how ancient Africans used to live?

[@DevoteeofThunor]

Hittites and Luwians were absolutely not African

[@SoylentJesus]

Very interesting but unwatchable due to the amount of times she says luwian

[@paulbennett772]

What should she say? The lecture is about Luwian!

[@defaultname79]

Katta in Kurdish is falling down

[@bobsmithradates7346]

"Katte" means "king" in Hattian. God means "god" in English. Cat means "cat" in English.

[@veronicalogotheti5416]

Well the greeks have the family tree All greeks

[@bugulubarbia2040]

Luwian it is Russian , L and R almost the same in runic , original greeks call this place and people RU-Ша-ni -jo , they came from Russian and went back , when the water is gone

[@cybelekilic7131]

lol Luwians are proto indo-european so Anatolian is origin of Indo-European dienekes.blogspot.com.tr/2012/08/proto-indo-european-homeland-in.html

[@defaultname79]

Bugulu Barbia In kurdish RU is face of the flat land Av is water Nuw or Niha is Now Chu is gone

[@KurdForever]

correct

[@esramnor6734]

Hahaha Luwian was local language

[@esramnor6734]

@@cybelekilic7131 yeah I think its true

[@PoliticalJohn]

Thank you foe skipping the introduction. I don't need to hear a bunch of ignorant, self-indulged academes back slap each other, I prefer information over vanity.

[@wexqlp3863]

Ancient Kurdistan. Kurdish history is full of surprises. The luwian language is closely related to Hittite/Hurrian languages. Over time becoming Mittani/Ururtu. One day Kurdish history will come to light. Once turkey/iran/Iraq/Syria adopts true democracy and stops stealing Kurdish history. The truth will come to light and their grand children will be ashamed of them.

[@bblunder]

What part of lecture made you believe that Kurds are Anatolian? You belong to the Iranic family and probably settled to Anatolia in notime but 700-800 years ago. Approximately the same times with the Turks.

[@wexqlp3863]

@@bblunder - ok mr “Turk-not-racist-towards-Kurds”. You should continue reading your tunnel visioned propaganda filled Turkish history altering fantasy books. According to Turks, Turkish DNA still exists within Anatolia. But research shows it’s just a myth made up to satisfy the ego of naive citizens of Turkey. You should do a DNA test on your self to prove to everyone what a pure Turk you are and to see if you’re truly a Turk. Or an orphaned Armenian, Greek, Bulgarian, Albanian or Bosnian.

[@kashmagoorun2900]

​@@bblunderyour wrong we are not iranic

[@madonebo9249]

​​@@kashmagoorun2900you are idiot