Phantasy Star IV, Ludonarrative, and the Artistic Value of Classic Games

[@danielsipes4474]

I love this video. It’s an excellent breakdown of the ludonarrative in PS IV and one of the only videos on KZbin discussing this game in-depth. PS IV is criminally underrated so I appreciate the cotnent and analysis.

[@danielsipes4474]

EDIT: I’ve watched this video like five or six times now.

[@DerangedHermit]

Rika also has a similar concept going on with her skillset and level curve. In PSII, the second genetically created Numan Nei leveled up twice as fast as your other characters but her technique pool was shallow and her stat gains per level were half as much as normal. She faces her twin and the first Numan Neifirst and gets slaughtered and killed, and her cellular structure due to her rapid aging didn't allow her to be revived/cloned. In PSIV, Rika starts off as Level 1 at a point your characters are already at or above level 10. Despite this, her level curve allows her to quickly catch up, and then gets ahead of the curve. Her techniques are largely healing and support, meant to reflect how Rika starts to become a shoulder for Chaz to cry on, then they eventually develop feelings for each other. Her curve isn't as fast and her technique pool isn't as shallow as Nei, reflecting the improvement of the Numan project.

[@Stellarheim]

Who the hell is Rika?

[@Yurothehotot]

@@Stellarheim A Character in the game this video is talking about.

[@zkitty11]

I just finished Phantasy Star 4 for the first time yesterday, so now I could watch this without any spoilers. :) One of the gameplay-story moments that got to me was with one of the optional sidequests where there's a boy sick in bed with some kind of mental illness. You give the boy the replica Alis's sword from a gift shop and Chaz tells him that the sword contains the heroine's power, and it gives him the strength to keep going. At first I thought it was just a cute fetch quest, but then later in the story Chaz was unsure of what to fight for until he picked up the Elsydeon sword and I realized it was foreshadowing!

[@youhearthatsnap5180]

I have been playing this game for 30 years, play through once or twice a year still, and I didn’t pick up on this until you pointed it out.

[@diegog1853]

Rpgs are made fun of constantly for how their plots involve fighting small slimes and wolves at the beginning and end with fighting literal gods, as something nonsensical or to make fun of. But I've always seen it as a strong sign of ludonarrative cohesion, since... mechanically, rpgs are almost always about building your character up from nothing through hard work. And so the story has to reflect that... how some farm boy sets out to achieve impossible things through hard work and dedication, self-improvement. What would be nonsensical is that a level 100 warrior is still struggling with wolves in the forest like any normal human. Your characters constantly get stronger and stronger and so the stakes have to be higher and higher, fighting Gods is just the highest you can reach, and the strongest way in which a developer can show you how far your effort got you.

[@cosmicenkidu]

Great video! I love it when these jrpgs are analysed honestly and it becomes evident that, yes, a lot of thought actually went into these games and their battle designs. There's actually an interesting interview about PSIV that I read on shmuplations a few years ago where the battle designer commented that they put a lot of energy into making combat and boss battles interesting so that you'd have to think instead of just grinding levels. The interviewer seemed worried and wanted to be reassured that grinding would still be enough, which seemed to disappoint the battle designer. This is interesting to me because there's also an interview with Dragon Quest's director Yuji Horii from around the release of DQ4, about four years before PSIV came out, where he mentions that he balanced DQ to be a game where a player can use strategy and the spells available to them so as to not have to grind, but a player who can't or doesn't want to come up with these strategies can just grind levels instead and have their effort be rewarded with progress in the game. Both these comments represent an interesting change in perspective at the time, as the first two DQs and PSs certainly required a bit of grinding to face challenges, a characteristic certainly reminiscent of the early PC RPGs, like Wizardry, that laid the blueprints of early console jrpgs. Phantasy Star 1 for example won't even give you a debuff inflicting spell until very late in the game, limiting what you can do outside of just grinding for levels or money for better equipment when faced with a hard area or boss. By the way, small nitpick, but at 15:20 you say Chaz's cross cut can't be used without a sword. It in fact can also be used with one or two knives equipped, even though the animation will still show him using a sword!

[@azuretigers5562]

This is such a UNIQUE, FANTASTIC review of a game that still touches my soul, 18 years after first playing the game. Sincere thanks to you.

[@Ninjacat25]

I'll definitely be sharing this video. I've subscribed as well. Keep up the good work!

[@DKMatsu]

If I ever find the time to sit down and learn enough video editing to make a response to this, I will. PSIV has been hugely personal to me since I was a kid, and I can remember telling my friends and family about how great the storytelling and world-building are and having people look at me like I was stupid for thinking a story that sophisticated could come from a video game. Thank you for making this.

[@KaskelotenZebbe]

This is an absolutely fantastic video. Phantasy Star IV is my favourite game and I've beaten it many many times, yet you gave me completely new perspectives which became an eye opener for me. I mostly noticed other details. Such as Seth having the same Skills as Dark Force, Rika quickly becoming stronger than Chaz for being a numan (also mentioned by another poster!) etc. Come to think of it, Kyra calling Chaz her little brother and using slashers like Alys might be a throwback to her, yet this time around it was him saving her, when Alys saved Chaz.

[@lainiwakura4678]

And the "Old Man" muskcat saying he felt like they'd met before. Which makes sense if that is Myau, with Rune of course being Lutz.

[@brodiereed7570]

Absolute gem of a video.

[@toanoradian]

Oh my god I finally found this video again! For a week I've been remembering this video essay about how even old games have excellent technique in story and gameplay integration but I don't know how to find it. All I know is that it's a pre-PS1 JRPG, where a woman is your mentor. Looking up "JRPG where your mentor is a woman", "JRPG where your teacher is a woman", or "JRPG where you meet your dead mentor again" and boy Google sucks. It just throws up reddit posts and those "Top 10 games" where the oldest game is from the early 2000s. "Sci-fi JRPGs" or "JRPG story and gameplay integration" leads nowhere. I remembered that about the time I found this video for the first time I was reading a TVTropes article about the first or earliest JRPG where your main character is the demon prophesied to ruin the world. I can't find that article either and so I went to Wikipedia's "History of Eastern role-playing video games" until I stumble across Phantasy Star II being a game where the antagonists are Earthlings. It looks sci-fi, and FINALLY, going through the Phantasy Star series I remembered it was Phantasy Star IV. KZbin search is ALSO horrible, and I have to try multiple keywords and scroll through tons of longplays, retrospectives and OSTs before finally finding this one! Moral: press the like button in the first place

[@alucard9119]

Incredible analysis, thank you 🙏🏻 Phantasy Star IV was one of my childhood touchstones (still is). I think as a pre-teenager I implicitly grasped most of the layered psychological and relationship dynamics that you lay out (so clearly and explicitly) here, which must be why the game had such an impact on me. But I still got so much from your masterful thesis here; thank you for opening my eyes to something I’ve loved already for decades!

[@kestral63]

A sincere analysis that gets to the core of why Phantasy Star IV's execution is underrated and fantastic. Except for that godawful Air Castle. Which is why at the 25:06 mark, this video officially transcends everything that has or will ever describe the game.

[@Clandestinemonkey]

Great thoughts on a great game. I always noticed how well the game tells a story without words but you've really articulated it in a new way for me. Thanks for the vid!

[@falksi3182]

This vid is excellent. One of the best I've seen on KZbin

[@rosevaniafunniestmoments]

I love this video. Taking things seriously and in earnest is immensely rewarding.

[@DSan-kl2yc]

Whats cool about these things is that they can affect you even if you're not fully aware of it. Plus it's reinforced by the plot/dialogue, in the same way the mechanics reinforce the story. You can absolutely feel these things.

[@awkwardpause9532]

This was a really well done video. I’ll definitely be paying more attention to the mechanics of my favorite jrpgs, I might even give the Phantasy Star series a go!

[@yazminsky9645]

Thanks! You can honestly jump in with 4- 1 and 2 are very grindy and old-fashioned, and there’s 1000 years between each game, so not many details carry over. I’d honestly suggest reading a summary of 2’s major plot points though; that game gets shockingly dark in ways that are hard to believe, given when it came out.

[@leonidaschryssinas1723]

@@yazminsky9645 we LOVE Phantasy Star series, please join the RPG Lovers Worldwide Unite! group on FB to share your vids. there

[@falksi3182]

@@leonidaschryssinas1723 Leon knows the score. He also knows Phantasy Star 4 is the best JRPG ever

[@beefdawgamadeus]

Awesome analysis for a super nostalgic game, loved it bro

[@BronzeEleven]

Awesome video! And there are so many you didn't mention. They foreshadowed a party member being an imposter using nothing but his moveset. You could have spent a whole segment talking about who Rika is as a character and how her level and stat growth reflect it. Even little things like how the vehicles are super powerful and mow down enemies like weeds but don't give you much of any experience because the characters aren't really practicing combat while sitting a tank. Kyra as a character is a follower of the Lutz and member of a sort of clerical order like Raja, and look how they foreshadow the Lutz reveal with her moveset. It looks like a fusion of two other certain characters right? Wren and Demi's game-mechanic differences really stand out too and show what they are like. They're the only characters who automatically recover from being knocked out after a battle, which serves both to illustrate how they are physically different from the other characters but even reinforces how they have a sort of robotic "must complete the mission" attitude about them, if you really read that far into anyway.

[@stefanswiss3760]

So many things to analyse, I love the 80's and 90's because of the lack of possibilities you had, made the creators find other ways to convey a message. For instance clothes and color pattern. You start with normal people and pretty common hair color. Both Alys and Chaz are clothed in red: they are a team. Hahn being in white with standard clothes don't distract you from the main characters and him being weaker grounds the game showing what a regular human looks like. You ground your game in a believable world close to our knowledge. Then comes Rune, his color pattern differs hugely with the others, he is closer to the desolis color pattern (how interesting ^^) you get introduced to magic, his hair is also quite different. Gryz is great with bland clothes Rika comes next with cyberpunk look, you get introduced to a new element of what is phantasy star : SCIENCE Fiction. You get your laser weapons etc. Demi has a color pattern yellow quite adapted to motavia too (yet her hair color is green and she has a red gem on the forehead, she is clearly associated with motavia with Sci fi elements that get more and more present) a great step before meeting Wren. Finally the blue white colors (ice and snow) are for dezolis and especially to convey the priest vibe and spiritual elements magic and all, now you can let the game tell you about its magic elements and all. That was great and is diminished today because game developpers get too excited by the ability to let the player have thousands of different clothes and over the top looks. In other games, sometimes, Even the clothes for "hobos" or "common people" are so detailed and fancy you end up not believing in the world. In PSO everyone is already wearing glowing clothes, you don't get pulled by the universe like in PSIV or star wars because from the get go you don't have normal people. That is why I love PS serie so much

[@ikagura]

@@stefanswiss3760 People had glowing clothes in PSO? I don't remember that.

[@stefanswiss3760]

@@ikagura well I don't have a good vocabulary in English, I am talking about stripes, reflective bands and such, plus the universe of their weapons, mags, photon is what I'd call glowy. It is totally adapted to PSO's world but is opposed to what I was describing in my message : going from basic and relatable and progressing in the game and meeting new characters who are more and more strange or richly dressed up (at that time you see the world's scale of richness) PSO works in a different way, like a sentai. Everyone gets a color or a type of look you identify quickly, but if you don't like this type of look from the get go you won't have the chance to get pulled by the world.

[@evlinalw325]

Really great video about one of my all time favorite games from my distant youth!

[@invertin]

I've always had super strong feelings about Megaman 11 and it's relation to the entire rest of the franchise (X in particular) since I played it, but I felt like a lot of the things I noticed that gave me these strong feelings were coincidences or side effects of simply designing the game to be fun. After this video, though? Nah fuck it, I'm taking all of those things as a piece of the game itself. Art is art. And since I'm hype as fuck by this revelation I have to explain all of them immediately right now let's go Light's ultimate goal as a roboticist has been brought up before but is brought up again in this game to be "a world where robots and humans live in harmony", while Wily's ORIGINAL goal is retconned to being to make "hero" robots who can do amazing things that humans can't in order to protect and serve people, which of course, is reflected in the strongest possible way by his ultimate and last creation, Zero, who goes on to become one of the world's greatest heroes AND in doing so creates harmony between robots and humanity. Megaman himself can charge his buster to extreme levels thanks to the double gear system, most notably letting him shoot two charged shots at once using an animation and effect very reminiscent of the same two-charged-shots ability that X would later have with most armors, which is such a signature ability of X that it becomes his primary ability as Model X in the ZX games. At the end of the game, Light points out that Megaman with the Double Gear system is the ultimate reflection of Wily and Light's goals in getting into robotics, and not only does "Light and Wily together are stronger than apart" become an incredibly relevant theme looking at the rest of the franchise, embodied by Zero and X as characters, it's reflected AGAIN in the double gear system itself, which is a red and blue gear that work in tandem. Like how Zero and X are a red and blue robot, working in tandem, creations of Wily and Light, both creating a future designed by Wily and Light that lines up perfectly with BOTH of their ideologies and desires through a mixture of complete accident and infinite willpower. Which doesn't even get into the EXISTING stuff in the X series like how "X" is meant not as a cool letter but as a representation of an infinite value, representing X's infinite capacity for growth (both in combat power and as a sentient, living being) which is a recurring theme of that franchise AND the primary villain of the X games is Sigma, which is used in mathematics to represent a *finite and countable string of numbers* because Sigma *cannot grow like X can.* *Fuck.*

[@LeftyPem]

This was your FIRST video?! In 4 years, it’s still the deepest look into PSIV.❤❤Great work!

[@jamesmason3734]

You convinced me to play phantasy star IV and I'm glad I am. Thanks!

[@ZachaPedro]

I have a sufficiently different experience of the ludonarrative moments, Hahn's in particular, that I came off with a distinct, though compatible, message. I mean, of course you feel like you need to take care specifically of his health so he avoids being knocked out, including after Alys stops making him, ahem, pay for protection… but at some point while I still had him I took the giant worm mission at the guild, and maybe it was earlier than reasonable, but the result is that he was the only party member who could seriously harm the creature. This cemented I impression I was starting to have already that he was turning into the party's mage (in the classic RPG sense rather than this universe's sense of "magic"): somebody who you still need to take extra care of, but now because he's a battle asset rather than being an escort mission target. This ties well with his bio in the manual. Nevertheless, his sitting out the "Rune search mission" soon afterwards, then his leaving the party altogether to try and get academic help, still made sense to me as it represented him realizing he had gotten way over his head not only in terms of battle capacity, but also in knowledge of what kind of quest they were getting into -- while Alys had stopped extorting him some time earlier, up until that point he was still the party's thinking head -- and so his replacement for most intents and purposes (except healing…) by Rune made every bit of sense. So to summarize, I think the game reflects the story in the gameplay seriously enough, no matter our choices, that in the end we feel comfortable trusting the gameplay to be part of the storytelling, including when it might ultimately differ from our neighbor's storytelling experience. But enough dwelling on a game where the children of a doomed planet, who were once able to escape with spaceflight capability but have since lost it and are planetbound (at the beginning at least…), end up struggling for survival on a desolate world where terraforming equipment breaks down, crazed fundamentalists wage a vendetta (particularly against one university), and you face increasing attacks from the native wildlife… until you realize these events may not be unrelated and you have to call upon the combined strengths of the protagonists to lift the veil on the responsible party. So why not discuss Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri? kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z56TkniFbKilrq8

[@RaulRiveraArroyo]

This is excellent. A very solid, in-depth look at a classic Sega series. Loved hearing your perspective and is great food for thought as I'm building my own Phantasylike.

[@LisaRitter-el1gm]

I played this game when it first came out as a kid.

[@evlinalw325]

Awesome vid about one of my all time favorites! Just awesome!

[@cinebst]

This was fascinating! I'm so glad I saw your tweet. I knew next to nothing about the Phantasy Star games, so I appreciated all the educational elements here too. I'd say for a first video this is sly, sly stuff. Good job.

[@yazminsky9645]

Thanks! Yeah, I figure it’s fine to geek out when it’s a series that’s still relatively obscure; the franchise was so weird and the sci-fi elements in it are pretty unique in JRPGs.

[@japanimationman4442]

Wow, these are some great insights into the game. I have always felt that the first two games have more artistic ideas than 4, but I always hoped there was something I just wasn't seeing here. You've given me some great ideas to rethink that concept over.

[@megamike15]

one of my favorites of this type of story telling useing mechanics is in dragon quest 5. the main character goes through so much crap and then you notice his luck stat never goes up once when you level. or how about tellah in ff4. he is old so when he levels up he loses stats. or in ff7 where they make the fact the game is linear a plot point.

[@dynamiteheaddy5945]

Nice job with this. Very good analysis.

[@couganscustoms5028]

I really enjoyed your video. The Sega Channel introduced me to Phanstasy Star IV. I otherwise would have been uninterested in this type of game. It was the first turn-based RPG where I didn't mind the taking turns part. I was so upset with Alys' death that I loaded my game a few times to try to save her. I also wandered around hoping to find a hidden cure to bring her back.

[@Crocogator]

KZbin decided to show this to me, hope you're still doing okay. The mechanics behind this game are incredible for storytelling, and the reason I brought Hahn to the end. That combo move with Chaz.

[@graveyardgary4482]

This is my favorite rpg of all time and this was a joy to watch. Well done, man!

[@michaelsandfordcomics]

great videos so far! I've really enjoyed both.

[@Losckeychan]

I consider myself to have been born in right at the demarcation of "classic video games" end point (if you can call it that). My parents weren't into video games and the first console I had was a game boy colour and one powerpuff girls game. That was the extent of "gaming" as an a past time and library before Pokemon consumed my consciousness into my teens. I don't have any nostalgiac ties, I haven't ever played any of the final fantasy games or a lot of other critically acclaimed classic games so seeing this warms me up inside. I greatly enjoy seeing people talk critically about games that moved them. Now I'm hunting for a legal way to buy and play as many of the phantasy star games as possible! I'm not exactly sure why I wrote this, haha. I will say that the spectrum of what game entertainment means to people never fails to fascinate me. Thank you for taking the time to make this video!

[@danplayer2615]

Awesome narrative man i really love this game and i really enjoyed this review THX

[@hericiumcoralloides5025]

This was very well put together. Keep up the good work.

[@z0mb1e564]

Phantasy Star 4 has always been one of my favorite games. Thank you for showing me the depth that I think I felt but definitely didn’t realize was there.

[@CanadianPenny]

Great video. I've played this game a lot as a teenager and thought of it in that way! Breaths new life into it. In fact, your analysis reminds of how sports commentators try to read broader stories in the on-field action. We're seeing a tennis match, say, but because of who'se playing its a redemption story, a long-waited rematch between revivals, or a story of true grit.

[@Lanzend57]

You just put down much of how I felt when playing ps4 without realizing it at the time. Thank you nice work.

[@fgfhjfhjfbhfghf5771]

I love PSIV so much i wish there was more of a community around it still, absolutely incredible game even despite best girl Alys getting fridged. All I want is a follow up instead we get some console MMOs, a hack n slash on the DS and Sega acknowledging the protagonist of the first game once every 3 years

[@Johnsonicv]

Excellent video! Always love hearing your critical perspective Yaz.

[@DragonKingX78]

Classic game, deserves more love...or at least a port to all modern systems.

[@zennistrad]

Damn, this is good! I found this by chance while searching for the Phantasy Star IV ost. Great analysis, have a subscribe

[@cius2112]

Brilliant video man.

[@cesarhernandez6861]

Best RPG of my childhood!!! Gryz is my homeboy!

[@jacquelinemerritt1874]

"When you unlock a piece of art like this, it changes the way you can experience that entire medium." Damn if that isn't the truest thing I've ever heard. And it describes exactly my experience diving deep into the Kingdom Hearts series too, and how critically analyzing all of those games taught me a lot about analyzing themes in media in general, as well as why those games touched my heart as deeply as they did when I was a young girl (which all will be turned into video essays eventually).

[@jacquelinemerritt1874]

Also, you shouldn't apologize for being long-winded; if anything this felt like a brief overview of the ludonarrative in Phantasy Star IV and I would have loved to see you dive deeper in detail (and if there's not any more detail to go into, then congrats, because that just means your essay was so good it left me wanting more).

[@yazminsky9645]

Thanks so much!

[@gustavolopesdesouza547]

Great video! Made me completely revaluate the game.

[@danielsipes4474]

I wish I could leave 1000 likes on this video. I love PS4 and think it’s one of the best RPGs of the era and all-time.

[@RunplaysinHD]

Check out the full story of Phantasy Star IV under 4 hours without random encounters on my channel in the Genesis playlist

[@RaineyDaysStudio]

4 years too late, but great video man.

[@baumkuchen6543]

Perfect video for the perfect game.

[@leonc9760]

Man, what happened to alyss broke me as a kid 😭 such a badass character

[@despota2]

Wonderful video of my favorite retro RPG.

[@the_primal_instinct]

My favourite part of Phantasy Star 4 was the game tricking you into thinking it's about to end 3 times (before killing Zio, before the first fight with Dark Force and before crash landing on the cold planet).

[@FantasyJared]

Howdy man, great video! I especially love the message that your video ends on, quite powerful and real inspiring. My only complaints are that the huge amount of text you use on-screen in the first half of the video makes it feel a bit cluttered at times, and I would've appreciated a spoiler warning. Otherwise, this was an excellent time, and I can't wait to start this game for myself!

[@9unslin9er]

Love this video, but I don't know how you would ever end up with Hahn in Position 1. The game practically enforces party order, unless you want to manually change it for a difficulty spike.. Hahn is always 5th in order.

[@gglscks428]

you're really good at this

[@phychmasher]

4:57 SHOTS FIREDDDDDDDDDD omg!

[@unoriginalnickname]

Your shit is awesome, please make more

[@leonidaschryssinas1723]

Samuel Beckett "wAiting for Godot" ftw !!! I've seen this theatrical play & I loved it, 25 years b4 or so !!!

[@Mingodough]

I loved this vid. This whole gameplay telling stories has always something I tried to tell people, but the casual person doesn't really understand it. I recently played witcher 3 and was surprised people like it, I felt that game didn't have that gameplay storytelling that other rpgs have it was more like a tv show with an occasional button mash, that game for me was overall a disappointment, but its games like Phantasy star 4 I always recommend to people. Great vid, deserves more views so more people can get this concept

[@raikoh05]

Why the sonic overlay?

[@moeezS]

I love ludonarrative resonance. Where can I play this game? Steam?

[@Serkel]

underrated

[@Zerublade]

Good game, good video! ;3

[@confushiarch3421]

fun thing about rune is you can equip him with two shields... you never physically attack with him any way and you wanna grab his first case since it has a healing enchatment which lets you heal one target for free and if you dont grab it you loose it when he leaves your party temporarily later... kind of a broken wierd thiong but two shields do give him a lot of protection lol han can do the same thing but he is marginally more useful in melee

[@terry-]

Great!

[@maya-amf3325]

mind blown

[@ziotheholy]

While I found the the inclusion of personal politics early in the video a little annoying, I appreciate that you were able to put into words a relationship that I could never quite put into words myself. I've beaten Phantasy Star IV maybe 50 times, but even so I didn't notice many of the narrative tricks you mentioned. Thanks for teaching me something new about one of my favorite games.

[@Fauntleroy.]

I found your need to comment on it annoying.

[@matthuck378]

Great video! Thanks! I just recently got around to playing PS4...I played the first 3 back in the day. Expecting (or demanding) ludonarrative in games is like expecting a book to include the act of reading in the story or expecting a movie to include voyeurism in its plot. I think it's stupid. If a game does it, great...But I don't think it's at all necessary to make a game good. Also, if you require ludonarrative in all your games, you lack imagination. eg: HP aren't literally health; they represent the desire to fight on, physical and mental exhaustion, actual wounds, damage to gear, etc. They are abstract. Just like XP. Taking them literally just shows a lack of imagination. PS: "Ludonarrative" is a word like "verisimilitude". Gamers often use it to feel and sound smart, IMO.

[@Kamfrenchie]

Why would judith butler be seen as a high bar ? the few passages of her i've seen make her seem nonsensical

[@astrea555]

I thought this would be a good video but you had to be like.. this.

[@SpoonyBard88]

Wtf are you talking about?

[@theshitposterscp]

bru this game was my childhood