Phase 2 DPS Tier List | Classic Wrath of the Lich King

[@RawkCSSable]

Shadow priest underrated. Big dmg on vezax and hodir, can’t do algalon without, excellent on yogg0 and good utility as you mentioned. Will scale hard with gear. IMO A tier

[@ThePlatinumx]

ty for being the first guy not shittalking destro lock or ignoring the specc completely. playing destro in our guild while all others are playing affliction or demo, and im at least equal in output. like you say, shadowfury is insane on some bosses and trash handling. the other thing is, the specc is easier to play compared to affliction. easier gameplay on mechanic heavy fights like some bosses in ulduar is good, and a well played destro always beats out a mediocre played aff/demo. you mentioned bloodpact thats rly important on hard hitting bosses. and another thing is, destro can give a skilled healthstone without the downside of losing dmg cause of less health and you can bring replenishment if needed. overall i think, every raid should have at least 1 destro.

[@chrisgrady9511]

I don't think you understand what S tier means. Can't put half the specs there.

[@boarderz8275]

I'm screenshotting when you had fury in a tier for the one second and that's the tier list I will send to my guild.

[@alexistsirogiannis4399]

😂

[@thomasspeed7891]

I appreciate the video. I feel like S-tier should only have 3 to 4 specs, and other specs should know its ok to be A and B.

[@fdajax5107]

It's a shame that warriors and rets are balanced for ICC and they cant really buff either class. Paladins because they cant be good at everything and have 2 excellent specs already warrior because of how they scale almost uncontrollably for example if Titan's grip 10% damage reduction was removed like it was before 3.3.5 we'd be A tier or S tier already.

[@mrp782]

What I can't stand about feral dps, I have 2x the attack power and crit then another class, but it doesn't seems to scale over with the conversion is right. Almost like feral has a dps nerf on it. On paper it looks great, but it don't transfer over right.

[@ItsPummel]

Very inightful video, I am very proud of how far you have come Rugs. Some real opinions that I wholely agree with here. If you are a better A/B tier class than the S class you can easily find success in the tier. Thank you for your great videos and I hope you have a great day!

[@kinggrantking]

18:10 Elemental shamans are pretty much exclusively using Glyph of Fire Ele Totem, so they have it up for every fight. You would be a *gigantic* tool of an ele shaman if you subbed out that glyph so you could parse half the fights one week and half the fights the next bc Fire Ele is only up every 10m. That being said, elemental is still probably B tier. The real value in bringing them is that they contest for very little gear with other classes and allow tier, mail, and even leather gear to get used rather than waiting 2 years to gear each one of your 18 rogues.

[@havardlaland9516]

So what kind of glyphs should you roll? Which r you dropping out for Fire Ele totem

[@kinggrantking]

@@havardlaland9516 I prefer dropping Lava instead of Totem of Wrath, but you can technically drop either.

[@havardlaland9516]

@@kinggrantking Damn that's s prompt reply! 🔥 But after each ulduar boss fight, are most of em under 5 minute?

[@kinggrantking]

@@havardlaland9516 Ulduar doesn't have that much trash, so yeah maybe you could skip fire ele totem and still have it up for every fight. But keep in mind it never resets the cd for any reason. If you're on progress, ele will only be up every 3 or so pulls bc it won't reset on death. Overall I've swapped to fire ele and never looked back. Parsing 97.5 in an average guild, #2 ele on my server, and I only know that bc the #1 was the one who recommended the swap in the first place :D

[@josephtheisii9891]

S tier should be saved for those top detail bars on fights, maybe 4-5 classes. You have nine classes, including Fire Mage, Arcane Mage, Destro Lock, and Combat Rogue. All four of those have been middle of the pack in Ulduar encounters for the last 2 weeks. I know you mentioned utility more than just DPS, but what screams more utility than Enh Shaman whos directly behind DK in DPS, but only gets an A tier slot?

[@justicekennedy3852]

FROST AHEAD OF UNHOLY RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH FROST STOCKS WAY UP LET'S GOO. BABE WAKE UP NEW RUGS CONTENT.

[@majorbones251]

Stay frosty people!

[@vexxy3173]

@@majorbones251 🟢

[@MrLapin85]

Copium for sure

[@_faythene]

RISE UP FDKS

[@justicekennedy3852]

@fnigs2282 ruh roh, real awkward that the dps ranking from logs this first week have Frost ahead just slightly already.

[@michaelthomas4029]

Bro as a super based destro lock I'm so happy you put us on this video. The original dps rankings from a month ago didn't even have us on there!!! Less than 500 dps separates the 3 specs in P2!!! DESTRO LOCKS UNITE!!!!!

[@kyoxkyo]

destru the coolest

[@Guanjyn]

The 3 specs I have the most fun playing are the 3 bottom lol.

[@Rev0UK1]

Rets pure utility Its also pretty useful on split target fights for getting JoW rolling which hunters need in order to actually play their class / not be oom in 20 seconds.

[@ari_california8873]

Meh

[@juanitosemail]

As a ret main, I am offended by your accuracy...

[@ignacebonnarens1030]

Same, hit me right in the feels. Guild asked me to switch mains to my Enh Shaman.. /Inhales Copium

[@juanitosemail]

@@ignacebonnarens1030 uff, cheers to you too. /Copium

[@FIASCOGAMING]

Sleeping on fury warriors. High B/Low A tier. By early mid phase we will get full tier and jump up a few notches in the meters and by end phase we are scaling even further.

[@Bartinoles]

He said that, didnt he? It makes sense in the context he is giving

[@philipglasgow3307]

You think Unholy DK has been overnerfed but they are still in S Tier....

[@Rugsz]

LOL yep I do. Kinda nuts

[@TheeFreakiishlyz]

The nerf was to reduce their short fight dps. Dynamic haste change might actually help unholy more since haste proccing after garg benefits the garg where a original garg if haste procs after garg or you're missing buffs mid fight, it's GG garg damage.

[@tylerprice7486]

Completely agree, if a nerf doesn't eve bring them out of the top slot it wasn't overnerfed

[@-KingDadBod-]

Definitely not overnerfed. This only speaks volume on how overpowered they were in the first place.

[@jessenicholson8927]

Feels like too many classis in S-Tier

[@CDuff86]

You're the Oprah Winfrey of ranking. You get an S Tier, YOU get an S Tier. everyone gets an S Tier

[@adept1814]

I just wanted to mention, that in my eyes marksman has no reason to be played over survival atm. Only for having the chance to compete, they are forced to trapweave which is extremly mana inefficient for them. Around 2 min fightlength (naxx bis) they are basically oom which results in using aspect of viper making u the worst dps in that moment( even rets deal more than you lel). This doesnt get better with all those OP Leather items in Ulduar. Probably u wont even be able to wear your theoretical BIS on most of the fights because it gives way to little mana. Also survival will always be wayyyy stronger on a 2+ target fight than mm because of shorter trap cd and higher ap values. Furthermore mm cant even gylphe into deadly shot which makes their execute also worse than sv. Therefore the only reason to play mm right now is because of their higher burst, which isnt even that much stronger. In my opinion, the only scenario where sv and mm deal around the same damage in ulduar is when the sv cant place his trap, which is basically never the case in Ulduar. In conclusion placing sv and mm on the same rank is pretty silly to me. If somebody has a different opinion, i am up to debate.

[@krexolsen3692]

Bro, if you cant control mana as hunter. Wtf are you doing

[@willywunder0648]

Regarding: "In my opinion, the only scenario where sv and mm deal around the same damage in ulduar is when the sv cant place his trap, which is basically never the case in Ulduar." Well, according to our sims, even in full turret (a.k.a. "non-trapweaving") mode survival will beat a trapweaving marks. But also, there are some few encounters where trapweaving is extremely difficult. One has to exercise the jump-trapping-and-disengage flip into Kologarn ... saw videos of people doing that on the ptr ... :D

[@Yamulo]

I feel like maybe demo should be down a few spots (in S). I feel like aff gets more value out of a lot of the fights in ulduar, basically any fight where you can multi dot or just corruption adds for eradication procs.

[@implodingfruitz8093]

Raid wide spellpower buff from demo kinda balances it out

[@matteusbranka3579]

I always appreciate these thought. And I like the fact that you discuss survivability aswell since Ulduar is not just hitting trainingsdummys. Im excpecting hardmodes to be HARD and its not even a guarantee you will get your 252 items anytime soon. One question, do you guys know if there are alot of bosses that present cleave oppurtunity for combat rogue?

[@tribbybueno]

not really. freya maybe, hallway duty in thorim, yog if unlucky spawns. iron council stack if your tanks can handle it

[@matthewiovino6566]

rugs is the mvp to be completely honest. i always like to hear your take on the state of things. your opinions are usually well explained and i appreciate knowing your reasoning, as well as the caveats about skill vs gear vs meta. great vid 👍🏽

[@illiji915]

Half of S tier is really A tier. Generally I think you ranked the specs correctly but broke up the tiers in the wrong spots. A few S tier down to A. A few A down to be and a few B down to C and I think it'd be more realistic

[@MrSkillcap]

is there anywhere to find info on 2-hand unholy for phase 2? I'm aware it's less dps than DW.

[@soulmourn1702]

Ok, to be fair tho, if an S tier gets a big nerf like UH DKs did and still walk away as an S tier, the nerf wasnt too much lol :P

[@Paneron1123]

Bruh, c'mon you cannot have 9 specs as S tier. Destro is A, Arcane is A, Combat is A, Enhance is B, Arms is F.

[@Sindragozer]

I always go to the end for the screenshot first, but then go back to the beginning for the explanations lol. Thnx for the info!

[@eyedominate1257]

I think since glyph of reckoning came out it bumped ret palis to A tier.

[@Crix_Gaming]

I just check to see where warlocks are. I approve.

[@johanlahti84]

I think for Ulduar I would throw arcane into A-tier. The will only do good sustain if the druids feed them innervates. Fire is also much more fun.

[@Coaldigger8]

Arcane even without mana support is simming better than either of the fire specs in current gear. With Ulduar gear the gap should close but fire definitely isn’t better right now sadly

[@tribbybueno]

@@Coaldigger8 our fire mages are up to 75% crit and are almost always within 300 dos of arc mages. As soon as ulduar hits, mages are absolutely NOT going to sim better on long fights which is like all the fights

[@Coaldigger8]

@@tribbybueno Fusion and plenty of other top mages seem to disagree. Not saying that fire is bad and it definitely isn’t but arcane played correctly will still be better till they are in Ulduar gear

[@jmask2706]

You heard it here first “If you have a really good fury warrior they will be S tier dps by the end of P2!!!” -Rugs

[@JamCie]

„There‘s no reason to bring ret paladins.“ „They shouldn’t be buffed!“ xD

[@jasonleary604]

Unholy in Phase 1 was not how it was in original WotLK. So, I don't really see it as a nerf, more a bug fix really. If I remember correctly, the haste buff to gargoyle was capped at 1.0 attack speed and could not go lower than that in original WotLK. Why Blizzard didn't just change it to the way it was originally, I don't know..

[@Miratesus]

Rets had seal of blood/martyr the entire expansion and it was removed the last patch, Perhaps ret should get it back.

[@isaacfaith9369]

I have a raid spot as a Fury Warrior. We’re playing for late game here boys, ICC in 1 year let’s gooo

[@jarethdillard5393]

Ret was slowly nerfed over all of WotLK and we started at the end of the WotLK with the nerfs involved. That was with a set bonus put into place that they literally can't get yet because it isn't released. Their damage won't increase until they get to ICC and get that set bonus. That's the current issue with ret dps and blizz has already said they aren't going to fix it. Your already seeing a LOT of ret pallies switch to other toons until the phases catch up and they can get what they need to actually do damage.

[@stavey1123]

Never thought I'd see the day someone praises Destruction.

[@CardBoredB0x]

Should start these videos with a look back at the previous tier list video and see how that held up

[@ArdynSol]

Will we be getting a healer/tank video?

[@akira3871]

As a feral I say challenge accepted! Though as I've been flower shifting I feel like the 2pc bonus will force me into bear weaving. If anything just to keep a single lascerate up for the extra omen proc.

[@IXIFrostIXI]

Destro fam rise

[@illanari990]

I agree with some but I feel like Ret pally should be at c and fury be at b since lots of geared warriors are top 10 dps in naxx rn

[@Archive_Diary]

FERAL BOOOOOM IS COMING SOMEDAY.........

[@aaronlimmer146]

Awesome and thoughtful content. Thank you Rugs!

[@DangerDanMotovlogs]

Makes me a bit nervous. Our raid group has 3 fury warriors... me being one of them. We aren't hard-core at all, but still makes me worry about clearing content.

[@Johbe1110]

Very nice list, thanks a lot! One question: Do you think it's worth it to make one of the affli locks play destro in case you're not bringing a warrior? I'm not just talking about Freya, improved imp/commanding shout just seems like a really strong buff to have for progress.

[@Rugsz]

yeah if you don't have a warrior one of your locks should either play Affli with Improved Imp spec or just play Destro. The health is very valuable

[@yamabooshi5497]

Pretty sure the imp buff stacks with commanding shout. So you should use one regardless. I know it isn't meant to stack but does at the moment

[@yamabooshi5497]

I did some calculations using sim and found the at least on single target encounters destro is more dps then affliction with imp. Also nice because destro brings extra replinshment. Probably does more dps then shadow priest on single target too

[@BURRDAWG_]

Feral is b tier but players can make the class a tier or c tier

[@Rugsz]

true

[@FTWHock43]

The fury doooooom, feelsbadman. We all sitting here patiently waiting our turn

[@badderen92]

Where do u even get this from ? So many tier lists and most of them are wrong. You put Shadow Priest behind Ele sham, boomkin, mm hunter and destro lock etc when it can easily beat them.

[@galeitiaa]

Bruh the ending disclaimer was important as fuck. As a feral main this is paramount.

[@Dravanaar]

What's the name of the music I'm really liking it!

[@Coaldigger8]

Feel like having half the specs in S tier just dilutes the meaning of S tier really. That tier should at max have 2 specs per class up there and 1 if the class only has 2 dps specs.

[@sambennett5340]

I main a nearly p1 bis Enh shaman. I’m a bit nervous about Ulduar and future wrath. I also have a frost DK alt. How significant will the difference between Dk and enh be? Is it worth re-rolling ?

[@sambennett5340]

For context my raid has 1 UH DK, 1 blood / frost DK tank, and also somehow 2 resto, 1 ele, and 2 enh including myself. Somehow we have all the shaman..

[@Spooky_hours]

Thank you!

[@Nuclear_Money]

Can you make an arena tier list for the next season? Or feral pvp bis list

[@mastodonknotts]

Thanks man ❤

[@PorkFluff]

if you have more classes in S tier than A tier, you're using the idea of S tier wrong

[@SimplyAstonished]

people were seriously putting marksman behind fury which is funny asf considering it literally sims much higher

[@johndoe-qo8cy]

Even with all the Arp gear and 2 set bonus feral still only a B Tier? Sadge. Always thought we were only really lacking in Phase 1 cuz not alot of Arp gear

[@Rugsz]

I want to believe feral can do S-tier dmg, but based on PTR data, early phase 2 sims, and the current Classic Wrath interactions with cat I just don't see feral taking any insane jumps in p2. Definitely a big step up from p1, but I don't expect feral to do anything too crazy

[@johndoe-qo8cy]

@@Rugsz Rugs mate, Just wanna pick your brain. But does Infected Wounds 20% Attk Speed reduction work or help with Algalon, as I know he attks really fast.

[@bergziege5994]

Great vid!

[@hcs626]

I agree with Blizzard Unholy did need a nerf especially in the long term considering just how much they would scale with snapshotting garys it would of completely blown away almost all other classes, also feelsbad I main arms, but I honestly have no hope of arms being anything more than maybe bottom 5 of the dps bot 5 at most unless blizzard does a change to them which I would eat my hat if they do ngl. Also I think they should do some forms of nerfing and buffing because sometimes the way things work in classic isnt how they worked in vanilla or tbc or wotlk compared to Classic or TBCC or WotlkC

[@R3ar3ntry]

As a ret main, I'm okay with this

[@Fleato]

i've said it before but i do think ret needs buffs i dont even play ret any more and wouldn't go back ( until icc maybe) but i dont think they should nerf the top end and leave the bottom, it really doesnt change anything..... you're still not hurting uh dk really they're still good to bring but as we have seen...... you just stack up the next bis class where the bottom is still troll to bring. so why not buff ret for now. like it's so dumb.

[@jacobma385]

Thanks for delivering the information :)

[@BubbaShango]

Thanks Tier Dad!

[@eugenewang4650]

if you parse 99 as a B tier class main, you will be as valuable than an 85 parsing S tier spec. And thats just DPS. so a 99 parsing Ele shaman or boomie is far far more valuable than an 85 parsing rogue. Play what youre good at, unless youre playing ret or arms because they are borderline troll specs now.

[@KOLLOSS40235]

Frost DK's be like "look at me, iam the captain now"

[@damienrobertson2354]

I'm not sure I can agree on mage. It's really hard to put fire as s tier when it looks to only be better than arcane on a couple fights making it quite niche. I think mages will have to play both specs and likely due to gearing two specs, frostfire will be played a bit as you can make use of your arcane set easier. But even full bis, fire sims quite a bit lower. The only thing I see fire being used for in ulduar is range. If range is going to gimp arcane, then you play fire.

[@VitanovaFR]

A new Rugs tier list... Let's go!!

[@lolpaladins]

Think you should have just cut off the destro lock into a tier and it would have looked a little more balanced.

[@traianbasescuofficial]

thanks

[@MrLapin85]

I dono, dont really agree on the order on some stuff, like frost dk. Top A at best at the end of the phase, dont bring anything (as you bring enhs) and could actually be benched, solid good dps but just falls of. Uh willl still beat it with gear and you want at least one. Hunters (and rogues) also supereasy to gear which casters really isnt, so hunters will most likely top a lot of fights early to mid phase for sure. Geared locks/mages, rogues and hunters is where to look for pure dmg. Just way to much specs in S-tier. Dmg will vary a lot up there.

[@jayd8091]

If your frost DKs aren't topping some fights in Ulduar in P1 BiS then they're playing badly or you have 99.9% parsers for your other DPS. As the tier progresses that only gets stronger as Frost stacks more Str. Frost DKs aren't just strong because of their damage output, but they're very suited to many of the fights due to their cleave and survivability. You're going to see frost DKs slapping ass on Mimiron FF and on Yogg P2 + P3 due to their chunky hits on the brain and cleave on to the adds while nuking ST for yogg 0.

[@MrLapin85]

@@jayd8091 Frost is literally one of the worst scaling specs going from Naxx to Ulduar due to much of the dmg comes from the same sigil. Yes, some fights they will do good on, some favours UH more, many fights favour range dps even more. Its a solid spec (that I will be playing) but it will fall of the closer we get to ToC when the rest will get some more powerspikes from their gear.

[@jeffwarren6520]

Thanks for the content dude!

[@ToraxReborn]

If you don't run resto shaman.. just having bloodlust is a massive bonus.. in a 10man I'd put shamans in s tier to bring lust, as technically they boost dps / healing done for the raid as the best cd in the game, imo.

[@TyeCozMusic]

Can't wait to see where fury is in p3 haha

[@reguladorbigpwn2921]

What about beast master hunter ?

[@christiandiaz]

Is the plan for frost dks to switch to UH subspec with 4pc t8 once we get more gear?

[@jessie4412]

UH sub is wep dmg dependent and thinking of using 4p is hehehaha

[@christiandiaz]

@@jessie4412 oh truee. Seems like the consensus is to just go blood sub with 2 pc but now I’m hearing talks of a de sync rotation that uses 4pc 🤔

[@jayd8091]

@@christiandiaz If you go UH you basically dont "desync" but you only pestilence every other rotation of blood runes due to diseases lasting longer. So it's; IT, PS, HS, Rune Tap, Unbreakable, Oblit, Pest > ERW > 3x Oblit > FS spam > 2 Oblit > Pest/HS in to 3 Oblit, FS, 2 Oblit, Pest/HS again.

[@PRT603]

Whats up with you and sarthe hating on feral dps?

[@dragonfaith9080]

Kind of a surprise on some these scores but nice to see very thing can work with the right player at the wheel thank for the video

[@lXmyl]

p3 dps tier list?

[@neal7805]

Thanks for not dumping on ele like 95% of the content creators do

[@phillipwu1093]

Lmao as an ele in phase 1 ive been beating every class tier above me in dps, like i always said in this game choose the player not the class

[@dobiusla8281]

So that means you have chosen bad players on purpose just to be top? Sounds like a pug guild to me.

[@JL-qo3ld]

Love the vods dude =)

[@Tareyak]

Ret D TIER?!?! Bro did you not get my bribe I sent in the mail? ...jk xD Seriously tho we all know D tier is the best.... if ya know what I mean ;D ..... D Sac ofcourse cmon man get your mind out of the gutter FUN FACT: Ret is the only spec that actually does less damage in Ulduar than Naxx pmsl xD

[@AlexSteinbach-bi9gp]

Let’s get a tank list!!!!

[@robertdowning4346]

im playing frost mage (i just like it, dont ask). i do decent damage. mostly pugs but i end up in the top half of the dps charts every fight, occasionally sniping the top or top 3 spots. id like to see specs like this in these tier lists (frost mage, bm, sub) surely theyre higher than ret/arms.

[@sgtbilko2950]

What's Feral missing that it had on P servers?

[@krexolsen3692]

Furries dev that buffed feral to be competative

[@bl1tzillaaa]

Omem of clarity

[@TheXarfay]

Thx as usual for all your work! I am watching every single video, cuz i luv your cozy vids and the explanations behind all things. I hope you will See my comment! Greetz from germany!

[@fireypicnic]

frost mage G tier

[@user-rt3hy8nm1r]

now feral is SSS tier

[@jamesbyrd3740]

How is Frost DK S tier? Frost didn't get better, because unholy came down.

[@petraclese798]

I think you are definitely biased about feral. You talk about a good feral being b-tier and leave them there. Then talk about general fury warriors being C and good being potential A, yet leave them in C. Feral has notoriously weak target swapping abilities. Your general feral druid is going to be miles behind your general fury.

[@Rugsz]

I'm biased to feral by putting them at the bottom of B tier? Holy moly

[@petraclese798]

@Rugs Fury and Feral sim so close in phase 2, they should definitely be on the same tier. Commanding shout/sunder/shattering throw is plenty of utility while being easier to play.

[@Lazydino59]

fast food chain tier list when

[@danwatt5789]

Frost Mages are just a pvp only F tier spec then I guess.

[@ceo_of_fascism]

I love this shit.

[@oburlacu73]

Everyone gives praise. Nobody thinks this is not how a tier list should look like? This is like handing participation trophies.

[@linkbloodelf9833]

I Play ele sham and I am always top 5 dps on every fight. Most of the time I am top 3

[@dozir7272]

What about the poor frost mages

[@quintrapnell3605]

unholy probably above combat rogue but behind Assassin.