"Phase Correct" Frequency Splitting in Ableton

Рет қаралды 33,720

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 72

@fakshen1973 5 жыл бұрын

I'm digging the toned down "knowledge" videos. You're staying on topic with each edit. Your presentation is much tighter and you still leave some room for adlibbing.

@MikeDeLaMorte 3 жыл бұрын

:gasp: Useful info :gasp: More useful info

@noharahien 9 ай бұрын

Very insightful, though I would argue that this approach cannot do the job it's supposed to do - band splitting - well. If you solo the high band you get from an all-pass component minus the inverted low-pass component, you'll see that around the x-over freq it's quite muddy. There are still lots of low frequency components you fail to filter out, due to the phase distortion happening to the low-pass component. And by increasing the slope you'll get nothing but an even worse result, because you're essentially introducing more distortion to the phase of that part of signal you want to cancel out. If you think about it, phase distortion and eq slope is like a trade-off (here we're not talking about linear eq, which has its own cons such as pre-ringing), more drastic band splitting you get, more phase distortion you introduce. Yes the approach in this video is 100% transparent, but only when there's no post-processing involved. Once you insert say a compressor or anything, you'll instantly hear something off, and that's the emerging phase imperfection. As far as I know, all professional gears that do the modern band splitting job (Kilohearts' Multipass for example) introduce some level of phase distortion to the signal when there's no post FX loaded. It's like they've chosen the band splitting quality over transparency at 0 post FX. And If you actually perform a null test on Ableton's multiband dynamics as a splitter, you'll find it sounds way more transparent than Multipass.

@MaterialMike 5 жыл бұрын

That breathing thing you do!!!!!!!

@advawnture441 5 жыл бұрын

OTT on his gasp/inhale

@alexandreiordanov8200 5 жыл бұрын

thanks..

@AdvancedGOld 3 жыл бұрын

now i can't unhear it!

@WHALEx3 3 жыл бұрын

I can’t even duplicate it, i’ve never heard someone breath so loud.

@artfxdnb 5 жыл бұрын

Or you can just use a linear phase multiband plugin like the Ozone 8 stereo imager, switch it to multiple bands, solo the right band on each chain in the audio effect rack and voila, perfect frequency split. That's the main reason why the split with multiband dynamics doesn't work, it's not linear phase. Fabfilter Pro-Q is in fact minimal phase when set to the right mode, but they also have a mode which is not perfect linear phase, but close to it. These will of course work way better than the multiband dynamics device or any non-linear phase plugin.

@artfxdnb 5 жыл бұрын

@@__3028 Yeah can't comment much on that, my i7-7820X handles it just fine but I don't know how that is on an i5 or i3 even.

@Thephantomnexus 5 жыл бұрын

would love to see how you set that up, seems like the way to go

@mitch150 5 жыл бұрын

Ya Ozone 8 Imagers frequency split is perfect every time. I tried using fab filter pro q 3 with linear phase enabled and it just dosnt quite get it perfectly.

@Thephantomnexus 5 жыл бұрын

Mitch S so just essentially create the same rack but use the imager for the split instead? Achieves better results?

@ambedo_bass 4 жыл бұрын

@5576997654456789456652170577532 and its free if you own ableton.

@rebirth4119 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for this. Non-linear frequency splitting has a nasty knack for messing with transients and as a bass producer I use frequency this in every track. Now no more phase issues.

@jokosi 3 жыл бұрын

Regardless of how "conceptually sound" this technique might be, I'm not getting great results. I fed some white noise through the rack and popped a spectrum analyzer on the end to see what was happening to the signal. Even when soloing the high-band there is still a considerable amount of low end rumble.

@niilanteybadu1 5 жыл бұрын

Yeoooooooooooo this is the smartest approach I have ever seen

@quadrant2012 Ай бұрын

I was having trouble with my mixes , but it was just a phase i was going through. ..

@haridaniel777 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for this inverted filter thing this is genius and the most clean way to do this! One notice I have, you can optimize this by not duplicating low filter but wireing audio from the output of low filter to the inverted low channel (with any sidechain device like gate or compressor).

@haridaniel777 Жыл бұрын

As Brent Hronik mentioned this does not work perfectly without linear phase eq (what ableton's EQ is not, fe: Pro-Q), because low freq phases changed compared to dry signal so canceling out is not perfectly done (you can check easily with a spectrum analyzer). But linear phase eqs always introduces latency.

@adriendelasalle8981 3 жыл бұрын

This makes so much sense, very useful, and conceptually interesting, thanks man !

@dpfxz 2 ай бұрын

idk, its actually just the same thing minus control. Where did Phaser decide is the "low" and what curve was used?

@ramalshebl60 Жыл бұрын

ok but i'm assuming for this to work the eq you apply in the chain has to be in linear phase mode... otherwise it's a minimum phase filter which when i subtract it from the original signal isn't going to cancel out perfectly

@heavymetalmixer91 5 жыл бұрын

And let's not forget that the filter slope makes a different ammount of phase shift, as you shown in an older video (I think it was about brickwall filter).

@djnickmonte Жыл бұрын

This does not work. You have to put your effect post High and pre Dry/Low path in order to get the bass to null. Adding back in the Low path no longer has a phase relationship with the High path since they are different signals.

@ambedo_bass 4 жыл бұрын

When using these racks, where is the correct spot to put your effects? I notice there are two different places that i can see might work?? I wanna do some multiband distortion and just wanna make sure im using the rack correctly.

@AmarBiamonteMusic 9 ай бұрын

Does this information help me make a banger pop track?

@scotthstevenson 5 жыл бұрын

Amazing, thanks and thanks Phaser !!

@Anthony-gx8hn 2 жыл бұрын

When using linear phase EQs this method is not perfectly transparent. Is there a reason why?

@DYSOLATION 23 күн бұрын

Cause of PDC Maybe!!

@braydenkneze21 3 жыл бұрын

You can also use the Invisible Band Splitter Max for Live device to achieve the same result, but limited to three bands.

@Codemarla 5 жыл бұрын

Multiplier mate, were you in the Chimera Climbing centre yesterday or do you just have a doppelganger in my area?

@weilermusic5057 5 жыл бұрын

I remember seeing a rack/ tutorial like this a while ago but I rarely do split bands but I think I might try this now! Thanks Adam!

@BenCaesar 4 жыл бұрын

Was looking up freq splitting today and watched a few videos but felt something was off. Just as you said! Can't split perfectly so this method seems legit. What a score! Also great improvement on video edits

@tim_arterbury 5 жыл бұрын

Whoa that's dope. Had no idea you could do it that way. Thank you!

@AceTheFirePunch 5 жыл бұрын

I'm apparently too stupid to understand this, what does this DO? if you apply such a Band Splitter as shown, it does nothing? no matter what you do with the macros, it's exactly the same sound, so what do you achieve with this?

@Johnb.78 4 жыл бұрын

Fuck all it’s totally pedantic

@hectorosbert 4 жыл бұрын

@@Johnb.78 You can add different fx on each band. I like putting a bit of overdrive and chorus on the high band of the bass but leave the low frequencies untouched.

@bhrishaprem5051 4 жыл бұрын

I can’t understand you, but i like you 😁

@cameronpaschal2484 4 жыл бұрын

when would you want to use this ?

@harryhein3991 3 жыл бұрын

isn't this what linear phase crossover is? already implemented in many plugins - off the top of my head all the meldaproductions plugins have linear phase

@FullyMaxxed 5 жыл бұрын

Great video! Thank you.

@brenthronik6066 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for putting this together! While I agree that you are left with 2 bands that sum up to the original signal, calling the top band a high band is a bit misleading, as there is actually going to be a fair bit of content well below the filter frequency cutoff. This can easily be seen by soloing the high channel and then placing a spectrum after the multiband rack. The additional low frequency content is due to the phase-inverted low passed content not being a perfect 180 degrees out of phase with the dry signal due to the filter there introducing some phasing. I believe these additional low frequency artifacts in the high band cancel out any artifacts introduced by the low band, though, which is why you end up with the original signal when summed. TL;DR I think it's really interesting thought exercise and insight into phasing issues and frequency splitting, however I'm concerned about the practical applications due to all the low frequency content in the upper bands.

@sunder572 3 жыл бұрын

if you use linear phase filters this issue is solved right?

@haridaniel777 Жыл бұрын

@@sunder572 Yes, but that's cost is introduced latency.

@sarkany888 9 ай бұрын

Yeah, sadly this doesn't work properly for kick and bass separation. I'm trying to only use native devices, is the M4L invisible splitter a good alternative?

@noharahien 9 ай бұрын

@@sarkany888 I just looked into its max code. It does the absolutely same thing as what's mentioned in this video.

@official_zalent 10 ай бұрын

It doesn’t work, the frequencies are quieter in the highs, but still their.

@AudioRuslan 5 жыл бұрын

Awesome man Thanks!

@dpfxz 2 ай бұрын

"Minus the Low frequencies" ...ya but at what point? and what band curve? lol. I just have a feeling its not this simple, or all the serious developers would already be doing this, cause its not that complicated. Something is being swept under the rug here, like maybe its not even happening lol