Pianist Begins 6 Chopin Pieces, Improvises the Rest (ft. Noam Sivan) | Ep. 8 The Chopin Podcast

[@HappyGoLuckyPanda]

I wish 10% of Chopin competition requires improvisation in Chopin style

[@MrLedZepper]

Intriguing idea, but I’m afraid it would scare away 90% of the pianists…

[@JoeLinux2000]

Absolutely. I already wrote the Chopin Competition and suggested it. As it is now, the most Chopin like pianists are eliminated. They should also be required to write a composition while being watched when given an original fragment to extend like in this video.

[@BunniesRcooler]

I'm not sure though, whether this type of art isn't too subjectie for a competition

[@lerippletoe6893]

@@MrLedZepper It would grow audiences I would almost guarantee

[@maciek_d]

As a jazz musician and fan of improvised music I welcome this development wholeheartedly! This will bring more audiences to classical. Noam Sivan definitely plays in the spirit that I very much enjoy. Great performer. Wow

[@MrLedZepper]

I’m a classically trained pianist who has dabbled in jazz. In my humble opinion, improvising can be taught to most musicians including classical musicians, but the level of improvisation many musicians possess (especially jazz musicians) is truly a gift.

[@benlawdy]

Absolutely. Just like anyone can learn a language but not everyone is a poet.

[@JoeLinux2000]

@@benlawdy Good Point, or for that matter orator.

[@KelvinDominick-p9m]

​@@benlawdy But again poetry is a skill and learnable also. Everything is learnable, humans are there own worst enemies especially as adults trying to learn skills because we're always looking for the end result, where as a kid you just enjoy the process of learning. So the key is to just enjoy the process.

[@benlawdy]

@ Absolutely, well said. It was inelegant but I meant “poet” figuratively in relation to everyday language as an analogy for particularly artful music in relation to merely proficient improvisation/composition.

[@KelvinDominick-p9m]

@@benlawdy enjoyed the video anyway. 👍

Also, from Rubinstein's 1st Biography, when asked about his improvisations and composing, "My compositions are superior to Hoffman's in one respect. They remain unpublished." Also, in the Horowitz apartment documentary, when he improvises a few measures and the interviewer remarks, "Oh, I don't recognize the composer." and Horowitz, somewhat emotionally replies, "I am the composer. I'm still a MUSICIAN, you know!"

[@benlawdy]

Yes, and the fact that Horowitz gets defensive about that just shows how much improvisation was a thing of the past in mainstream classical circles (I believe that was in the late 70s).

[@nintendianajones64]

As an improviser myself it's always cool to hear what others are doing with it. We definitely need more of this.

[@mdleavitt]

This makes me so happy!! Being able to both write and speak in a language it’s important!

[@JeffKwak221]

lol the way he accepts the requests "sure" "ok" he sounds so chill

[@dwdei8815]

As someone who has commented several times on your vids about improvisation, this hits the spot exactly. It is not about being better than Chopin, it is not about replacing Chopin, it is not about insulting Chopin. Chopin's music opens doors for us. It is an act of the deepest musical gratitude to him and any composer for us to accept the open door and, even if we mainly explore the things he found there, to also, occasionally, make our own play there.

[@MickeyCoalwell]

His insight and intelligence in choosing specific figurations and harmonic directions when improvising based on the work’s form and character is so enjoyable.

[@benlawdy]

@@MickeyCoalwell yes! This is my reaction. It’s not just doodling or free associating at the keyboard - it’s very refined in voice leading, texture, and phrasing, and quite idiomatic to Chopin’s subtle harmonic universe. It’s really remarkable that he just “knows” how to do this (and I know he would tell me I can do it too, but I can still marvel at what he’s accomplished).

[@bassodivo1]

Legit. The raindrop drop was beautiful

[@yoonchun6945]

Jaw dropping episode! My gosh - so beautiful ❤

[@cadriver2570]

Great playing! This is more in line with how this music was initially experienced. I think Noam and the entire community would benefit with more people improvising. It's hard to go alone without a community working towards similar goals.

[@jeliotodorov1848]

The improvisation on the second scherzo sounds like a Brahms/Liszt composition. Greaaaaaaat❤❤❤

[@benlawdy]

It’s thrilling!! The double octaves made me think of Liszt too, but then I remembered Chopin uses them in almost all of his scherzos. And in other ways too Noam keeps invoking actual “events” from Chopin’s original score. I think that one and the nocturne are my favorites.

[@PhilHarrison762]

@@benlawdy and for me there was an extended period of Mendelssohnian harmony also......

Improvisation is well and alive among organists, mostly because a church organist has to be able to adapt the music to what's happening. If the communion runs a bit longer the organist must be able to improvise a few measures on the hymn as a minimum. After that the sky's the limit.

[@benlawdy]

I should have shouted out all the organists and church musicians out there. You're absolutely right - this is where improvisation is alive and well. I tend to be so focused inside a certain sector of the classical music world that I forget that there is indeed a centuries-long lineage of "classical improvisation" that continues today.

[@Jantsenpr777]

​​​@@benlawdyI'm a classically-trained pianist and composer who is also a church pianist by trade, and I can attest to this fact. You must know your ins-and-outs of songs as well as how to find your way around any Sunday's repertoire and make it sound like it all belongs. It's a harmonic and melodic chore and art, all in one.

[@Organic_Organist]

However, I find that organ improv techniques do not translate directly to the piano very well. I improvise on the organ all the time, but it's not as easy or natural at the piano.

@@Organic_Organist That is fascinating. Do you have any idea why that is? Maybe you can hide behind the organ console (depending on the setup) and not be so exposed, or does it have to do with being able to sustain notes, thus more time to think? Just shooting in the dark here.

[@Organic_Organist]

I think sustained notes help a lot, while being connected to the bass line with the pedals keeps me grounded and aware of where I am harmonically. My hands are free to improvise as they wish with a pedal line that is always grounded.

[@Lp78Ch]

That improvisation on the Berceuse is going to wake up many babies.

[@benlawdy]

It's not the lullaby anymore, it's what the child is dreaming about!

[@steveonkeys]

Love the concept and the idea of bringing back classical improvisation. He seems to use the original music as more of a springboard to launch into a completely different piece, leaving the original characters well back in the dust.

[@JoeLinux2000]

I don't see it that way. He maintains the characters, but gives them new lines.

[@steveonkeys]

@ of course! To each his own. Perhaps I’m too attached to the originals!

[@sgut1947]

Great video. To the piano teacher who says "Honey, you're not Beethoven of Chopin", I would say "Sure, and I'm not Rubinstein or Perahia either, but I still want to play the piano."

[@GabrielHusson]

Great episode. In organ music, it is still a great tradition to improvise. Complete Partitas, Suites, Fugues, Symphonies, etc. Listen to David Cassan for example or Wolfgang Seifen, probably the two with most facility and genius. I wish piano music had kept this tradition as well!

[@timbruer7318]

An excellent video. It's great to see this topic being explored, and I agree that the torch was passed to jazz musicians, although it must be remembered that the practice of improvisation has continued within the organ tradition uninterrupted......It's also wonderful to see Noam in action, and to hear his thoughts about why improvising is important.

[@benlawdy]

@@timbruer7318 that’s true / I was thinking of piano improvisation but I should have mentioned the organ tradition. I imagine its connection to the church has given it some protection from market forced and academic trends, and allowed it to preserve an older improvisatory practice.

[@timbruer7318]

@@benlawdy thanks for responding, I didn't see your response before I added a bit more to my original comment....I'm a jazz pianist but am fascinated by classical improvisation, and I've just watched all 3 of your improvisation oriented videos. Thanks a lot for doing them, it's so good to see someone putting this stuff out there - listening to Noam talk you get a taste of the way it used to be when "classical" musicians used to play, improvise and compose, and those practices weren't separated.

[@jasond4466]

Around 25-35 years ago, I did the Royal Schools of Music exams, from Grade 1 to Grade 8, and Advanced Certificate. Even at grade 8 level, there was no improvisation. Only for the Advanced Certificate exam, they gave me the first 8 bars of a grade 3 piece, I had to improvise and add 8 more bars to the piece. I messed up so bad, it was so horrible to listen to it.

[@andre.vaz.pereira]

So good... Now we need a video of him explaining the process in his head while playing it, explaining what are his prefered cadences, modulating processes, prefered chord extensions (i even eared some improvisatory elements from Polonaise-fanatsie)... There is a lot to analyse in such a joyful improvisatory performance. Only then we can be free to do it the right way... Just copying rithmic patterns or making some Lisztian octaves doesn't do justice to this type of art we are earing in this video. Trully amazing!

[@benlawdy]

@@andre.vaz.pereira releasing my interview with him soon, where he at least begins to explain his process.

[@brianbernstein3826]

No one says “john coltrane was too great, I’m not worthy to improvise on his music.” Or Michael Jackson etc. Classical is the only genre where this self imposed limit occurs, and it’s due to the prison of conformity many feel is necessary to preserve tradition

[@wojtekdobrowolski8084]

My God, I wish I could improvise, I have to start trying ASAP.

[@benlawdy]

There's lots of good resources for learning. Noam gives a crash course in my longer interview with him (coming soon), but a good starter is John Mortensen's 'A Pianist's Guide to Historical Improvisation.'

[@richardypiano]

I really hope the spirit of improvisation takes hold in the classical piano world. There's no comparison between pianists of today and the figures we love from the past, because with little composition or improvisation skills or even a desire to do so, today's pianists are different types of beings. If a pianist truly loves, say, Chopin, why wouldn't they naturally want to play around on the piano in the style of Chopin? Maybe teachers are to blame?

I enjoy most playing the music of famous improvisors. Sometimes, my performances of written music have been mistaken for improvisations. My 2 favorites currently are Joplin, whose improvisational skills are well known, even highlighted in cinema, and a lesser known (in the USA) Ernesto Nazareth, a Brazilian from the same period as Joplin, also mixing slave and European music in his compositions, mostly derived from improvisations during his "day job", playing piano for silent movies.

[@Makeromanticismmainstreamagain]

Well with me it's the other way around. My improvisations get mistaken for compositions by Rachmaninoff or something like that.

[@melefth]

Wonderful and entirely valid. As the superb Mr Sivan started to say, but didn't finish, Chopin learned to improvise by improvising in the style of Bach and Beethoven; Beethoven cut his improvisatory teeth on Bach and so on. Anything that makes the music that we--a tiny and ever-dwindling minority--love less dead in the eyes of the vast majority has got to be a step in the right direction.

[@vinylisland6386]

Unfortunately, or fortunately, very few people have Sivam's extremely sophisticated and highly idiomatic command of harmony, let alone his technique and imagination. Even among the masters of classical music there were only a handful who were masters of improvisation, Beethoven, Liszt, Bruckner on the organ. It requires immense self-confidence and an innate musicality which is, to my mind, extremely rare.

[@JoeLinux2000]

Yes and no. Those who can do it are discouraged from doing it by stuffed shirt classically limited musicians. The same type of people criticize Yuja Wang's costuming.

[@Erdenesetseg]

@@JoeLinux2000I mean we can’t really compare her overly and unnecessarily revealing clothes with the elitists who want to shun anyone who decides to step out of the box Two different things but I agree

[@qazsedcft2162]

This is amazing! How do you learn this stuff?

[@benlawdy]

Stay tuned for my interview with Noam Sivan and he'll speak to exactly that (coming out tonight on the full episode audio, and in a couple days on video)

[@jeff__w]

_And,_ in the video immediately preceding one, there’s Alexandre Gadjiev, who is pursuing a Master’s in Improvisation at the State University of Music and Performing Arts in Stuttgart. So, apparently, it’s an academic discipline in at least one institution of higher learning (and, actually more than one, also e.g., School of Music, Theatre & Dance at the University of Michigan).

[@sonholee5769]

Bravo

[@billyschroeder2671]

I love these podcasts and need to know where you got that shirt lol

[@sonholee5769]

yeah! I love the Pulp FIction mash up

[@8beef4u]

You should get Gabriela Montero on. She's also a virtuoso improviser.

[@benlawdy]

@@8beef4u I did. Her video is coming out tomorrow.

[@8beef4u]

@@benlawdy Woah no way lol

[@myhumbleopinion1036]

👌👌👏👏👏

[@lawrencetaylor4101]

Very nice video. Merci beaucoup. An Al Gore Rhythm comment.

[@Charlie-xx2wj]

When asked about improvisation, Van Cliburn, the CEO of the famous Cliburn Int'l Piano Competition, said that he didn't understand it.

[@MrInterestingthings]

I'm gittin' dat shirt . Eets da sheet . The crime is Schumann had more sides and personalities in his music than almost anyone ;like Liszt he could wrire meorable ,uncountables modes of happy music as well as lamenting or sorrowful or adulatory but there is a deserved love for Chopin but how we ignore the Schumann Symphonic Variations and Fantasy or Faschingswank or Carnaval or the gorgeous singing Liebenfrau of the baritone cycles. Schumann's Variety is unbelievable . Is his opera anywhere on KZbin ? Beethoven should be in da middle ufdis tee-shirt with da manuscript of first page uve opus 106 . This guy's imagination is worth hearing hearing ! If he composes in 19th century style 3rd Ballade here he puts in phrase from the op.49 Fantasie .that too must be worth hearing ! They used Webern's manuscripts in his apartment after he was shot for fodder inside army boots . that's the Human Being and Societyy in A Nut Nut Nutshell !

[@ShahFareed-y3k]

Sivan seems to be on the right track. Improvisation lets the music breathe and is a vital facet of a performance. Many feel western classical musicians are mainly interpreters - I don't quite agree. Interpretation and Improvisation merge, and it's a continuum. Still, improvisation in the true sense is often lacking. I have heard Kempff was outstanding at it. Hadelich sometimes does his own cadenzas, but I see your point - there should be more. Renowned violinists from Vivaldi to Kriesler were all adept at it. I hope the tradition comes back.

[@jonstewart464]

That t shirt! Edit. Just bought one myself 😂

[@SR71YF12]

There are similar prints available online, with the text "Did you practice?" below the two gunmen Chopin and Liszt. Which makes the t-shirt even more hilarious. I want one, even though I am not a pianist.

[@tobiaszenz180]

@@SR71YF12 where can I buy one?

[@tobiaszenz180]

Where did you get it?

[@lacrls]

Improviser since youth here

[@maitremarcadet]

Noam Sivan is amazing, he's not your average improviser. Several times I tried to learn how to improvise, and sadly I always give up. You work hard for three months and the final result is "hey look, I can make a 30 seconds bad caricature of Vivaldi now". Since the time spent struggling to make ugly music with no clear purpose is in direct competition with the time spent learning pieces I really like, I just stop when the initial impulse of motivation starts to fade away. I think the main issue is that I had more than 10 years of pure interpretative background before even trying to improvise. Once the gap is too large, going back to being a beginner is very hard, and you need an extremely strong will to keep going.

[@stevengallagher6960]

Ben, where on earth can I find one of those Chopin/Liszt t-shirts? They're excellent! Great content by the way - have been eagerly following the series, and I look forward to the remainder!

[@benlawdy]

www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/4205453-chopin-and-liszt

[@TOml0l3times]

I NEED YOUR SHIRT

[@yoonchun6945]

Does Noam offer classes on improvisation?😊

[@leonardodelyrarodrigues3752]

I was finding it very far from Chopin until the Scherzo came along and then from then on it became very similar to Chopin.

[@benlawdy]

@@leonardodelyrarodrigues3752 that’s interesting because another commenter said the scherzo sounded like Liszt and Brahms. It’s interesting how these romantic styles are more porous than we thought. I think there are moments in each that scream Chopin, and only Chopin, but also Noam is using a few more common romantic conventions that have less of a Chopin signature to them. To my ears though. There’s a lot in the nocturne that is vintage Chopin (so long as you don’t listen to it expecting it to sound like the original nocturne). I really love what he does with that one.

[@JoeLinux2000]

@@benlawdy Somehow people expect an improvised version to sound exactly as the original.

[@stevenknudsen7902]

This is done in "Piano Puzzler" on NPR. I am not sure taking the top 12 concert pianists as your analysis group is helpful in analyzing how/when pianists improvise. And what is the historical evidence that the great masters of the past improvised as much as they recorded their music on paper.

[@benlawdy]

@@stevenknudsen7902 I agree - improvisation is prevalent, including in what we might call ‘historical styles.’ But with respect to the narrow classical piano world of conservatories, competitions, and concert stages, it’s true that improvisers are in the minority (and the 12 top concert pianists are the cream of that somewhat one-dimensional crop).

[@stevenknudsen7902]

@@benlawdy What about Jon Batiste, Julliard Graduate, whose piano teacher showed obvious affection for him in the movie "American Symphony." Otherwise, point well taken, thanks, I just happen to know some gifted improvisists.

[@benlawdy]

@@stevenknudsen7902 Jon was in the jazz program at Juilliard. There is no doubt that improvisation is at the core of jazz!

[@stevenknudsen7902]

@@benlawdy Cool, I have been following Batiste's adventures for a while. Apparently, he caused quite a stir by playing the melodica in the subways in New York, but now everyone is playing in the streets.

[@RMPdude]

Great episode. I think improvisation is more of a gift than anything else, but maybe I'm wrong.

[@JoeLinux2000]

Certainly some people are very gifted at it. Others not at all. It depends on many factors. Gabriela Montero can't explain how she does it.

[@shydead1392]

You can 1000000% practice it too. As long as you are capable of thinking forward as to what could come next in music you can get better and better at getting it out on the fly

[@Makeromanticismmainstreamagain]

You're both wrong and right.

[@benlawdy]

Gabriela (whose video is next) can’t explain how she does it. Noam can. Very different minds, both brilliant end results. There’s a long tradition of improv/composition pedagogy that was lost in the 19th century. Some folks are trying to bring it back - Alma Deutscher is the most famous success case of being taught the historical tradition (her historical improv teacher is named Tobias Cramm). The technique is called “partimento”, basically learning how to harmonize and stylize bass line fragments, and eventually invent whole compositions using stock phrases on a given bass like. Check out Robert Gjerdingen’s book “Child composers in the old conservatories.”

[@GBhumbra]

While I agree improvisation isn't often seen for classical piano, it is routinely expected of organists.

[@josephjones3366]

Really liked the section on recitation of great works versus addition to them. I don't really have any additions, but it is interesting how the problem of the hyperconservative elitism is present in many or rather most art forms. Of course we should recite and learn Homer, but why not write our own as well if we don't want the act of creation to die? Love the vids!

[@charlesbernard3042]

Well there goes the tradional ideas of having to practice for perfection of one's musical lines. The flawless first-time ever played runs he demonstrated means he is above the ritual of practice. Is this a demonstration of an advanced visualization prodigy capability of the psychie, brain, soul connection to . . . what exactly that allows immediate perfection? Or, an an in-depth musculo-tactile response action that just magically hits the correct keys in followance to the ear-hearing of his mind? He's not really human as this ability seems divine to some degree.

[@benlawdy]

@@charlesbernard3042 I’m glad you’re asking those questions, because address those refuse points in my interview with him (it’s available now in the audio podcast, or wait a couple days for the video release). In short, it’s not divine ability - it’s training.

[@charlesbernard3042]

@@benlawdy Thank you for your response. I will find that hard to believe that it's acquired ability that allows this response action expression. I can't believe even for myself to learn improvisational immediacy. Maybe "chopsticks" variations a la Bach infusions at best for a stage-play comedy act defining the frustrated improvisation player. Perhaps in my next life. But I already planned for that. A light bread/ pastry chef and baroque style trumpet player!

[@benlawdy]

@ I’m with you - I missed the chance to speak music natively. That “critical phase” of language learning has come and gone. At best I could develop second-language skills in improvising, but I spend my time making KZbin videos instead. But you’d be surprised to discover that what appears to us as genius was once a fairly common practice among young children. Check out the book “Child Composers in the Old Conservatories” by Robert Gjerdingen. It documents how orphan boys of a range of talents were trained to improvise and compose so they could become professional musicians in church and court. It details all the techniques they used to train fluency in these anonymous kids. Imagine if you or I had that - regular exposure and training in a musical language from a young age. We might not be composing or improvising at the level of Chopin, or even Sivan, but we could at least sit down and invent a decent nocturne without much effort.

[@charlesbernard3042]

@@benlawdy Yes I will. That seems enlightening and is fascinating that children really have this ability. However, I really would like to know if I had the piano technicians teachers of today when I was between 4 and 13 for piano, would I have developed sooner and further than I did? Most teachers I had didn't really know what to do and particularly had no reference experience just how to practice and tackle difficult moves. Not until at least 13 did I finally have a teacher worthy enough to foster some skill development and tonal expressive mastery. So... the likes of child prodigy Elisey Mysin as an example is more a result of his teachers competence than merely his own brilliance? His acquired keyboard skills would easily have blown the doors off of my age twenties best. Perhaps he can or has already pursued improvisation skills. What a gem these child prodigies are!

[@benlawdy]

@@charlesbernard3042 I doubt even Elisey can improvise in a way you’d consider genius. The experience you describe with teachers is common, and I can relate. It’s nothing against teachers - I point myself in the company of teachers without the training to properly incorporate improvisation and composition into piano practice. The specialization of classical performance in the 20th century was a broad social-historical phenomenon that individual teachers are mostly powerless to challenge: both because they’re products of the system and also feel the constraints and pressures to perpetuate conventions.

[@LogioTek]

Really wonderful! However those are famous known pieces. He might be impromptu first-take improvising on them on demand but he for sure played around and experimented with them before at some point. A more interesting feat would be sight-read-improvising on more obscure lesser known works of lesser known composers. That would have been a real first-take impromptu performance.

[@benlawdy]

He's likely performed all of these pieces before, but it's not the direct reason he's able to do this. I could have asked him do 5 more versions on the same piece and they would have sounded totally different. He's just phenomenal. The proof is in his free improvisations in romantic styles (or any style for that matter, from fugues to contemporary idioms). Here he is improvising a 30+ minute, 4-movement sonata in a romantic style (not random/stream of consciousness, but expertly crafted with motivic unity and formal development): kzbin.info/www/bejne/np-vXmqAf8asnLs

[@LogioTek]

@benlawdy I'm sure he can improvise completely spontaneously (unprepared) and fluently on randomly presented ideas and that's why it should be demonstrated in that way. Because demonstrations of true spontaneity are very rare. Nobody likes being put on the spot and feeling vulnerable, especially in this day when cameras are rolling everywhere and your stumbles might be recorded. I've seen an old video recording of younger Oscar Peterson on a TV program and the host asked him to improvise on the theme of a song that they were going to play for him. Oscar got visibly agitated and nervous, he shifted in his seat and mumbled out loud "I hope it's a song that I know". To his relief when the music came on, it turned out to be a popular song that was very familiar to him, his body language changed, he smiled and started playing very comfortably. This shows that even jazz greats are sensitive to true spontaneity probing.

[@benlawdy]

@@LogioTek I know what you’re saying, but trust me that Noam is comfortable in both promoted and unprompted/purely spontaneous settings. He does a bit of free improv in a romantic style in the interview segment coming out soon.

[@LogioTek]

@@benlawdy And I don't doubt it one bit. I want more present day documented examples of the same feats that great musicians of centuries past used to perform. If you read written accounts from the days of Chopin, Beethoven, Liszt, etc. true virtuosity was measured by the musician's ability to improvise, mash-up, pull puns and twists on completely random ideas and themes spontaneously fed to them by their audience.

[@JoeLinux2000]

@@benlawdy You could have an improvisational theater group on to demonstrate their skill which is similar. You have t o practice improvising to be able to improvise. Red Green was great at improvising with duct tape.

[@syroyid]

Hey Ben! I improvise on Chopin too. You might find it relevant for this type of content...

[@benlawdy]

Cool. Share some links and I'd love to listen!

[@syroyid]

@@benlawdy Chopin Nocturne Op. 9 No. 2 kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4vdhIB8rMaAfaMsi=E1Q18wBMVZVa_OGU

[@syroyid]

@@benlawdy Chopin Mazurka in E minor, Op. 17, No. 2 kzbin.info/www/bejne/h3iVk6Wof5lpaLM

[@syroyid]

@@benlawdy I'm not sure if KZbin will remove these links, so if you can provide an email I can forward them to you. I have an entire album. It is called Reinterpreting Chopin

[@PeterFamiko-lw8ue]

I really would like improve some chopin^s pieces

[@militaryandemergencyservic3286]

This man is certainly extremely talented. Wow! However, do take a look at 11 of my own improvisations on 3 different instruments and in at least 3 different styles: kzbin.info/aero/PLYUhuuvIrJm0wvhMrBN9-ahjwswDANwoI You may also be interested in assessing a few of my Chopin pastiches - kzbin.info/aero/PLYUhuuvIrJm0dcmhr8KtklL50fUpxuzKB By the way Tiffany Poon is the greatest improviser I have ever known (though she doesn't do any on YT) - she refers to them with astonishing modesty as 'noodles'. Also Alma Deutcher is pretty handy with improvising from 4 random notes given to her... And here are 7 more of my improvised 'Rhapsodies' - kzbin.info/www/bejne/iojKgIRvp91-gKM

[@ArgoBeats]

...

[@kwgm8578]

Ben, he must NOT have been a cab driver. We learned that Right- turns save time. My piano teacher hated my improvisations. 🇺🇸🧙🏽‍♂️ PS - He's amazing, but he missed a few bases on his trip around the plate of Op. 48. Bravo.

[@pjbpiano]

Piano teachers that hate improvisations are interesting.

[@PeterFamiko-lw8ue]

Weird piano teacher

[@kwgm8578]

@pjbpiano - she was a Gold Medal winner and very serious. Her teacher was in the line of teachers that began in Germany with Clara Schumann. I learned the fundamentals from Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Brahms, but I was in my 40's then, and my business was growing, at home we were raising children -- life happens and one becomes too busy to continue practicing, learning new Nocturnes or Sonatas. I love playing Kinderscenen and those beautiful late works of Brahms Op. 16 - 18. The Op. 18, no, 2 is still a favorite, She was a character. Used to walk around town using an umbrella on our sunny days.

[@kwgm8578]

@@PeterFamiko-lw8ue you are correct. Weird +++

[@yvesjeaurond4937]

Confusing improvisation with pastiche?

[@Musicarbs]

"taking a left turn" is a phrase?

[@Seleuce]

:D I didn't know your next video is an actual clip on improvised Chopin opus numbers when I typed my comment under your last Podcast part! Irony! LOL Well, as impressive as Sivan's skills are musically, but I don't like it, as I expected. I've already heard other musicians improvise Chopin's as well as other composers' music, some month ago even in concert during the "Chopin and his Europe" festival in Warsaw, when Makoto Ozone pushed it way too far for my liking, improvising Mozart all the way into Jazz in front of an unprepared audience. I simply can't get used to it in well crafted, carefully constructed music, even though I like Jazz and are very open to the prospect of giving musicians more creativity and freedom of interpretation back. I know painting and music don't compare easily, but it is as though a painter comes along and adds his own thoughts into a perfect Rembrandt masterpiece. There's music that screams for improvisation, I think, and there is music that should be left untouched and admired as it is!

[@benlawdy]

On some level I think Noam Sivan agrees with you: he would prefer to improvise original music in historical styles, romantic or otherwise, and not just depart from Chopin’s scores. So, I take responsibility for that one 🙋🏻‍♂️. This was just a fun exercise to bring the remarkable practice of historical improvisation into view: Noam is doing remarkable things giving young musicians the tools to improvise in a number of styles going back centuries and up to the present day. Nobody is threatening to draw a mustache on Chopin’s Mona Lisa - his music is immortalized and we have endless recordings of his great masterpieces and endless more performances to come. Noam’s point, and I think it’s undeniable, is that if this is ALL we do, then these past musical styles remain dead languages whose poems we merely recite in various expressive ways.

[@Seleuce]

@@benlawdy "draw a mustache on Chopin’s Mona Lisa" 😂 Phew! Your Chopin project is truly remarkable, precisely because you cover all possible fields and perspectives! One doesn't have to agree in everything to appreciate the content. 🤗 It was very interesting to hear Sivan's improvisations. Unfortunately, it was the "wrong" pieces for me, all my favourites, that was bad luck for me. 😋 Thank you for shedding light on how he thinks about it. I would be very intrigued to hear some posthumous pieces or some of Chopin's Mazurkas improvised, in the latter Chopin took a lot of compositional liberties and was very experimental himself, I feel. However, I'm sure I speak for everyone to say I'm glad that you did this experiment with Sivan, it was very worth the watch! Thanks for all that hard work!

[@bhushanmalik]

Frankly, the improvisations hint at something totally different whereas they should be based on the original theme. That hint of original theme is lacking unfortunately except in Scherzo to some extent. But the ability to improvise is outstanding nevertheless

[@jonstewart464]

"Should" according to whom? This is brilliant music, phenomenal talent.

[@benlawdy]

Not sure about “totally different,” but they’re detours into a different environments for sure. I’d say they’re in the same musical world as the original piece though, but that’s somewhat subjective. I didn’t make it a rule to stick with the original theme (nor does Chopin always immediately return to his original themes, like in the third ballade). In each of these improvs, I can hear Noam preserving something essential in the form, motive, or style of the original piece (and not just the initial bars).

[@bhushanmalik]

@if you improvise on a theme on Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, but play Pirates of Caribbean, its not improvisation sorry. The impromptu take on continuing and creating a new music is undoubtedly outstanding with this pianist.

[@pjbpiano]

@@bhushanmalik, this is not a theme and variations. Perhaps your expectations of what this is differ from what it actually is.

[@JoeLinux2000]

You have a point. It's one of the problems improvisers have to deal with. One of the worst recent improvisers was Kamala Harris. Good improvisation is similar to walking on a high wire. It's more exciting when the audience is concerned the walker might fall off. It's very satisfying when he doesn't.

[@Samlaren]

I agree that improvisation and composing should be mandatory in higher music education. What I am doubtful in is that we should improvise like historical figures. I simply can't imagine Liszt improvising on a Beethoven melody in a style of Beethoven, but rather in the style of Liszt. The same goes for all the great composer/improvisers. So if we should have any historical accuracy then we shouldnt improvise like others, but rather as ourselves.

[@benlawdy]

I don't see them as mutually exclusive. Whatever ends up being authentically "yourself" was shaped by influences. Why not explore different musical languages to see which ones resonate with you?

[@Samlaren]

@@benlawdy Always so eloquent :). You have a point of course, and since I don't have a counter argument I will return to my cave and continue practising, hoping to someday be a fraction as good as Noam Sivan is...

[@benlawdy]

@@Samlaren we can agree on that. It must feel amazing to be able to invent music like that.

[@INCR3DIBL3JMAN]

second

[@prototropo]

To improvise on one's own composition is an incontestable privilege. On someone else's? Dicey. I'd turn back if I were you.

[@iloveballadeno1]

Why?

[@JoeLinux2000]

Not true.Many jazz pianists create versions which are better than the original.

[@iloveballadeno1]

@JoeLinux2000 I agree

[@950name]

well he didn't turn back and it went pretty delightful

[@ronl7131]

But…..the pathos & despair of op 48 #1, lost instantly imho. Some improvisation can be tuneful & clever, I appreciate de novo improvisation, not derived . Otherwise, the improvisation is just a variation???

[@benlawdy]

@@ronl7131 I wouldn’t measure his improvisation against Chopin’s fully developed composition. This is an exercise in speaking Chopin’s language and revealing that Chopin himself was choosing one of many routes for his material to unfold (even Chopin’s written piece is, in a sense, “just a variation” on his initial conception). Noam’s speciality is improvising in the de novo in the way you appreciate, so you can blame me for this more derivative exercise! Having said that - that little alternate route for Op 48/1 has plenty of pathos and despair for what it is, no? And - thinking in compositional terms - lots of potential!

[@JoeLinux2000]

Generally that's the case with jazz music too. You start with a known "head" and then improvise on the chord changes. That's why jazz players who don't know one another can come together and play good jazz without practice.

[@dejesusannoni]

To me this is playing in the style, in this case, of Chopin. Many good pianists can also play in the style of other great composers also. Don’t get me wrong, he is very good at it, but at the end I don’t see the point to doing it. Of course, jazz improvisation is quite another thing.

[@benlawdy]

@@dejesusannoni I went to see a comedy show called “improvised Shakespeare” in Chicago once, and it was amazing and hilarious. Part of the fun was just that seeing talented people imitate even the outlines of a genius historical style makes us appreciate that style even more (imitation is the highest form of flattery, and so on). I think Noam goes much farther with Chopin than they did with Shakespeare. But, more than that, I think the point of it is at minimum didactic (if not also entertaining or even beautiful and revelatory) - learning to improvise in Chopin’s style will make any musician acutely aware of the subtle musical language Chopin is speaking - the particular use of melody and harmony, the discursive voice leading and spacing, the phrasing and chromatic embellishment, the larger formal trajectory. These a should be part of any serious study of Chopin’s works in a conservatory, but unfortunately are almost totally absent. If only for that reason - as a teaching tool - I think this form of improvised modeling is highly useful and evidence of a robust and deeply informed musicianship.

[@MarxistischerMillionaer]

Once you‘re getting into that kind of flow during improvisation it just becomes an awesome feeling. Almost like a state of intoxication. Body and soul are reunited in the here and now. Why romantic/classical improvisation? you don‘t have to. just like you don’t have to learn French. You can learn Swedish or Portuguese just as well

[@JoeLinux2000]

@@benlawdy Another aspect that is missing in academic musical settings is the development of costuming.and a performance persona. Yuja is often criticized by a few for her costuming; however, I have read she is the most financially successful concert pianist performing today. Others claim she doesn't play a certain genre of music well. What difference does it make when her ticket prices are sky high, and the hall is filled? Music is actually an entertainment business.