Should Practice Be Mistake Free?

[@PianistAcademy1]

➡➡ Interested in private lessons with Charles? Visit his website here for lots of info and to set up a call: charlesszczepanek.com/piano%2Fmusic-lessons

[@louisebailey3342]

This is great advice. As a less experienced student, I know that I am always anxious to get to hands together and up to speed. Playing slowly and methodically is the hardest part of practice. Working on every new piece, such as you propose, right from the start and not after mistakes are honed “through practice” is clearly the way to go.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks for watching, Louise! You got this!

[@stevrgrs]

Yeah there is a Huberman podcast with a neuroscientist or something that talked all about this and how mistakes jack stuff up lol

[@GaryDubois-g4f]

Ive been playing piano for 40 years. I've had many teachers thru the years and even went to school for music education with piano as my instrument. Ive made some money playing and teaching and have been playing with a modest talent. I also love LOVE my practice time. I always mix up my practice routines. Playing pieces I'm comfortable with, difficult passages very very slower , sightreading, some time with a metronome, technique, hand relaxation etc. Passages that are difficult i work on slowly then attempt faster than bring back to slow tempo. I have no trouble devoting the time and patience to perfect pieces i want to master. Learning the basic chords and their inversions gave me the ability to pick up standards and hymns and pop songs and create my own arrangements and increased my repetoire without have to learn complicated arrangements like one has to with classical music. It opened up a world of music that i didn't need to spend hours perfecting.

[@d3l_nev]

How is this channel not 300k subscribers?

[@PianistAcademy1]

Hey Diego! Thanks for watching! 300k sure would be nice... hey I'd even settle for 50k right now haha! I take it you found the video helpful :-)

[@aBachwardsfellow]

What I have discovered is: *YOU LEARN WHAT YOU PRACTICE* (caveat emptor) I call my version of accurate practice "sarcastically slow". My premise/mantra for "sarcastically slow" is: "I do not have to play a wrong note if I don't want to", with the corollary being, "I don't have to play a note until I'm ready to". I decided on this when I realized that my brain was learning whatever I practiced. So if I practiced playing mistakes and corrections, it was learning mistakes and corrections. So then I decided to feed my brain absolutely nothing except a healthy diet of the correct notes and fingers, with rhythm added later (as you did). Another thing I noticed was that when I practice and push things too hard before I'm ready, I am also learning *anxiety and tension* into the piece as *part of the piece* -- i.e. "this piece is hard!" - yuk! So I decided to trick my brain by practicing in a way such that my brain never perceived what I was doing as "hard" or "anxiety-producing" -- at least not when first learning the piece. Obviously there comes a point when you have to start pushing the envelope, but hopefully not before you have acquired the piece and become "friends" with it at a comfortable level (one should never be "at war" with a piece they're trying to learn -- it's not "war and piece", rather it's "blessed are the piece-makers" - right - ;-) I definitely find using alternate rhythms such as dotted rhythms ("long -- short" , "short - long"), group bursts ( "long -- short - short"), and accents (accenting both major pulse notes and off-pulse notes, groups of 3 notes in a duple passage, etc.) to be very helpful in re-enforcing those neural connections. Great coverage of this often overlooked and misunderstood, yet so vital topic!

[@PianistAcademy1]

Yes! You learn exactly what, and only what, you practice!

[@uclon4iv]

I'm not even playing a piano (classical guitar, getting back after decades) and you've helped me immensely. I kind of knew some of that, but the way you put it really made things click.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Great to hear, thanks so much for sticking around a piano video!

[@MadMax300173]

This was literally the most insightful and to the point video i saw about good practice routines in the past 7 years since i started piano. Thank you for being so clear, especially on the example, and stressing the ability to pick up those exact points where things go wrong or feel flimsy, and give those the extra time, multiple times, which only occurred recently to me as a new tool, seeing you explaining it makes me more motivated to keep doing it. I also enjoyed the explanation about neural pathways, and how bad things tend to stick.. Bit like bad weed, that needs to be seen and eliminated at its very birth, before it overgrows the rest... keep up your great work ❤️

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks so much, Massimo! I'm glad to see you here on this channel as well, and I'm so happy this was helpful for you!

[@thekeyoflifepiano]

One cool practice strategy I learned from Noa Kageyama when struggling with a leap, practice hitting the note above and the note below. It really works.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Very interesting approach! I hadn't heard of this one, but I'll be trying it out in my own practice. It's not a "mistake" if your intention is to target leap distance slightly larger and slightly smaller. By the way, did you study with Noa at Juilliard?

[@thekeyoflifepiano]

@@PianistAcademy1 Nope, just learnt this from his blog.

[@PianistAcademy1]

@@thekeyoflifepiano could you leave a link to his blog? I didn’t know he had one!

[@xerintha]

I really needed to listen to this today! Some of my habits in practice do fall into what you discussed and some don't so there is room for improvement to be sure! I was happy to hear that my penchant for playing the correct keys over and over again after mistakes was the better path (i.e. scales/chords/arpeggios). Thank you!

[@PianistAcademy1]

Absolutely! Thanks for watching, Bernadette!

[@julioaltavas2257]

I fell victim to most of the things you've mentioned here. LOL Especially at 9:15. There's some truth to perfecting a piece when practicing at a slow tempo, but if we overdo it we start to run into some problems. I'm guilty of constantly staying at a very slow tempo; slower than 50%, because I'm aiming for accuracy. While it may benefit in some areas, it becomes constant to the point where I start to develop a habit out of it and lose sight of the technique required at faster tempos. I'm also guilty of "starting and stopping" when I get stuck at a certain passage, usually when the piece has a TON of accidentals and complex phrases. I'll take into account everything you've said here. This is a very useful topic, one that may potentially help us overcome most of our pianistic problems. Thank you very much, Charles for sharing your wealth of knowledge to us aspiring pianists! You're the gift that keeps on giving.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks for watching, Julio! And starting and stopping *can* be ok in certain types of practice. We just want it to be intentional when and why we stop, not just a habit, especially when it happens on the same beat over and over again.

[@jasonmanley7815]

Hi there Charles. I guess that your videos started showing up in my feed because I watch a lot of piano instructional related material. Your videos are excellent and you have great production quality too. I have taken several years away when my teacher moved to the other side of the country. She recently moved back and I'll be resuming lessons in a few weeks. I am a 52 year old adult student. I played the Bach Prelude in C major the one and only time I played in a recital. I have a serious goal for playing Clair de lune for my mother before she dies. She is a healthy, youthful 80 years old right now so I have got to get on the ball. I loved the piece of the master class video you posted for that piece.You have certainly earned my subscription! Keep up the great work. I am really an adult beginner.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks so much, Jason! Yes, keep it up! If you have topics that you'd like to learn about but haven't found good videos on, just let me know! I can either point you to them if I've already made them here, or can get them on my list of new content to create for the channel.

[@jasonmanley7815]

@@PianistAcademy1 Thank you good sir. Keep up the great work. Your channel WILL grow. I predict MANY subscribers in your future.

[@mickizurcher]

Great lesson, I really needed this! (Btw, your lighting is fantastic!)

[@TommysPianoCorner]

Pleased you found it interesting. Lighting is often overlooked but I think makes a great difference :-)

[@mickizurcher]

@@TommysPianoCorner aesthetics are aesthetics

[@mickizurcher]

Wow What a great channel I’m all in, hook line and sinker. Thank you so much.🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤

[@briandang5869]

Really helpful points you provided in the video, ill try and implement these into future practices

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks for watching, Brian! Hope they help!

[@ChrisBreemer]

Great tips here ! Thanks also for covering a difficult piece. Too many videos and tutorials are only about beginner stuff.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks for watching, Chris! And I'm glad you enjoyed the more advanced bits!

[@mickizurcher]

I was just thinking to myself today after a very, very bad practice totally unfocused constantly during the whole session was me bringing my focus back to my playing, that was the jest …gist!! (Oh Freud)of what I did I should’ve just walked away instead of reinforcing all that crap I’m thinking I shouldn’t even have been practicing at all. It was such a mess. Sometimes life really gets in the way. 😢

[@lettersquash]

This is really useful, thanks. I do some of this already, but I'm certainly guilty of repeatedly playing the same wrong note followed by the right one. I often find it useful (for the pieces I'm learning at my level) to start hands together, and then I'll sometimes separate them to focus on particular issues in that hand. I wonder if there's something about making neural connections HS that might impede combining them later, since the combined choreography can be quite different. Sometimes it's just that the piece only makes sense HT, so playing them separately is just a weird exercise in counting silence that the other hand would normally measure out. An issue where I rely more on experiment and re-education is fingering. Most music doesn't come with fingering, and when it does it's only one particular editor's preference and might not suit us. Working slowly at a piece can suggest great fingering choices that aren't best later as tempo increases, so I find I have to adjust. That's when dialing back the tempo is really important (but separating the hand still doesn't seem to be that helpful - I'm more likely to revert to the old fingering as soon as I put them together again). But I don't do a lot of consciously choosing fingering. I mostly seem to be leaving the fingering to my subconscious, and over time it kind of finds its own way. Certainly, whenever I spend time with a pencil studiously working out brilliant fingerings, playing one hand's part, they almost always turn out to be awkward later and I have to erase them.

[@PianistAcademy1]

I think this is a wonderful comment in many regards. I agree that different passages have benefits OR negative effects when working hands separate, especially at the beginning of learning. (I'm talking really at an advanced/professional level here, not so much to early students or even intermediate students). For example, think about Chopin's Op 10 No 3, but the harder bit in the middle... measures from 32 until 54, I'd argue, would have little benefit in hands separate practice, maybe even make hands together needlessly more difficult. Throughout that passage, both hands are really working as a single unit, both providing only 1 musical texture as well as executing very similar techniques between the two hands. However, take the code of Ballade No. 1, and working RH alone would have some significant benefits, especially early in the learning process. Now, juxtapose against those, working a perfect phrase in Ballade 1 from measures 8 to 35. It's, technically, much "simpler" than the previous two excerpts, but the hands end up sharing the "accompaniment" voice. In practicing that, I'd end up asking the RH to phrase the melody alone while the LH improvises a very simple reduction of the harmony on a measure by measure basis. In essence, take the second voice out of the RH and give it solely to LH for the sake of truly listening to phrase and practicing phrase. In that case, it's not really "hands separate," but it's textures separate. Have you seen my video on that?? And also your comment about finger choices is very apt. Keeping in the theme of Chopin, I find that Paderewski's fingerings are typically less desirable for me than Ekier's. But I still change some passages completely for the sake of my own hand. It takes a huge amount of experience to choose performance fingers during the learning process because, like you say, what works at the beginning and seems just fine may or may not prove successful in the long run. I was just practicing a newly composed Nocturne by a friend of mine... she specializes in teaching lots of female students with quite small hand spans, and so, the fingerings in her score do a whole lot of things that I would never do myself. They are very valid for the specific student she had in mind, but boy is it difficult to read the score and completely disregard the "recommended" fingerings lol.

[@lettersquash]

@@PianistAcademy1 I'd have to look up those references because I know so little Chopin (or anyone else!), but I'm very pleased my thoughts resonated with you. I recently learned Chopin's Op. 28, No. 4, which I've loved since my mum and my older sister both played it when I was a kid (I'm now 63), but I've hardly found anything else of his that I like, which seems pretty weird. I'm obsessed with Bach, and learning as much of the Goldberg Variations as I can! Great to find this channel; subbed. Many thanks.

[@mickizurcher]

You bring up so many questions this is so what I need to hear so I never play a piece from the beginning anymore. I immediately jump into an area that is difficult for me and that’s what I’ll do for several hours a day and what’s happening is that I don’t know how to put it together now, because even though I might be able to practice each section and we could be talking anywhere between 16 bars to a page and I always add a few of the previous bars to the beginning of that section and at the end of that section the bars coming up I’ll add those as well into the practice, but that still doesn’t make it so that I can go and play the whole piece it’s almost like psychologically I don’t have the endurance and I don’t mean physical endurance. Do you have a video that addresses this? thank you, your work here is everything!

[@PianistAcademy1]

I don't have a video about that in particular, no. It sounds like we need a better roadmap to follow, or at least, build a few more landmarks that keep us going through a piece. This video might help a bit in the process... it's specifically about memorizing, but we can apply it in a variety of ways: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d4qsaKStfbqAkJY

[@Fair-to-Middling]

I am at an early intermediate level. When I begin to learn a piece, I inevitably make errors, even when I try very hard not to, and go very slowly. A couple questions, 1) Should I drop back and do simpler pieces, not pushing myself to increase the difficulty? (But then I'll probably forever be stuck at the beginning level, which is depressing), and 2) If errors do happen, some say to do that section/measure again 10 times until it's correct each time, starting over counting if you make an error again. Thoughts?

[@PianistAcademy1]

Hi there, and thanks for the comment! First off, just like I mention in the video, let's address exactly what a mistake is and isn't. Earlier on in our piano journey, a "mistake" might be a wrong note... OR... a wrong rhythm... OR... a wrong fingering. We can't expect to get everything right always, from the beginning. For any particular 5 minutes, pick just one thing to work on "mistake free." I always advise students to choose learning correct notes over correct rhythms first. So, taking as many pauses where you need, start one phrase or even one measure at a time and work on training your hand and (subconsciously) your ear on the correct notes. Then, as we are able and without sacrificing correct notes, begin to add the correct rhythm in. If you need to experiment with rhythm to learn and feel it the first time, I'd recommend doing that "away" from the piano... could be on your lap, it could be just tapping the rhythm on the fallboard, etc. We just don't want to execute movement at the keyboard until we have a better grasp. As we progress, bar by bar, phrase by phrase, concept by concept, we can continue to add more and more into our "perfect" practice. The idea of repeating 10x across a mistake is sometimes good, but it really needs to be used wisely. I did a video here called "Avoid Power Saver Mode" that goes into detail about this. I also did a video explaining the 10x practice method as well. The most important thing about repeated practice is to make sure our mind hasn't tuned out what our hands are doing. It's incredibly easy to slip into unfocused practice... in which case even 10x correct repetitions won't translate into still knowing the passage tomorrow or the day after. I wouldn't drop back into simpler pieces, but instead adjust what "perfection" means during your practice. Focus on one thing at a time and slowly combine them when we are able, after more practice time.

[@Fair-to-Middling]

@@PianistAcademy1 Thank you! I will take a look at the 10x videos you have. Tonight I really tried to make some better neural pathways with a piece I am learning, Hornpipe by Purcell. Going very slow, but nailing the notes and rhythm. Now just get my speed up. That is really what I struggle with. I get all these built in pauses from the early practices that are hard to get rid of. But I persist. Thanks again!

[@vanessas.4625]

​@@PianistAcademy1PianistAcademy1 Thank you for this detailed answer. Your channel is on its way to become my favourite channel! Your teaching is so helpful and you explain everything so fondly.

[@PianistAcademy1]

@@vanessas.4625 Thank you!! And I hope to continue to see you around the channel!

[@davidhogan2460]

As an intermediate pianist, struggling to understand the Liszt example (way beyond beginner/intermediate) Get that it may be better to practice(learn) the correct notes before tempo and dynamics to get an idea of the tune but there is no instruction here on sight reading or reading in general. We all take one note at a time don’t we? Then build on the piece slowly right hand, left hand then a bit together and eventually it morphs into a piece of music. Also no mention of listening to the piece in question to fix the melody , tempo, dynamics to memory… Such a complicated subject for all musicians, we are all built differently and have to find what works for us. Still enjoyed being challenged to think about how I practice going forward.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Sight reading and reading notation are quite different tasks than efficient and well structured practice. In a similar vein to the point of this video, you can't practice sight reading and also practice "well" or with musical or technical progress in mind. They don't go together until you are a pretty advanced player. Likewise, reading notation is it's own skill, reliant on pattern recognition and implementation in a variety of ways. Learning to become a better reader either comes across a very long span of practice time, or will come more quickly if it's the focus of practice, at the expense of working on other things, like technique, musicality, interpretation, ear training, etc. How everyone learns is a bit different, so there isn't a "one-size fits all" approach that works well. Listening is important, but not at the expense of learning by rote and mimicking what the ears heard without regard to truly listening to our own playing and how it differs from the recording. When this happens with students earlier in development, it can take a lot of practice to "undo" what was learned that's actually incorrect, but wasn't understood because the foundation isn't yet strong enough. Tempo, dynamics, memory, etc, they are all just the same as the topics I talk about in that they need to be addressed in their own time. For some students this might mean working on all of those on day one, right in the first practice session on a piece. For others, it might be a month later. And for most, all 3 of those will take their own dedicated time, not coupled with trying to practice in other aspects. And that is really the point of the video. The mind can only actively process one to maybe 2 new streams of information at a time. It's the new content that we are actively focused on that should have our utmost attention, so much so, that we do everything possible to avoid imprinting "wrong" information about those tasks. When the mind can accomplish those and add in more, then we move to an additional task, over and over, until we have learned to process all of the components.

[@edwardp.gannon9320]

With skips in the left hand, are you an advocate of having the thumb placed silently on the octave above before retracting toward the pinky? I have found this adds a valuable extra level of security in performance. Great content btw!

[@PianistAcademy1]

Usually with LH skips, I'm choosing to aim for one finger or another, and let the chord shape follow if needed. So, for example, even with octaves I wouldn't aim for both 5th and thumb... I'd pick the one that needs the most attention to be accurate and aim for that, letting my knowledge of the shape of an octave in the hand do the rest. For me this is almost always aiming for 5 and letting 1 fall "where it may" knowing what an octave feels like. Because of this, I don't think I'd ever aim for an octave to aid in leaps to single pitches because in other cases, I'm eliminating the other pitches to make my leaps more accurate. I think I've answered your question here? But if I haven't, let me know! There's of course no one right way at the piano and even if I didn't use the technique you describe myself, I might try it out with students who have trouble with the single pitch method that I prefer for myself.

[@justinheldsinger3526]

Great clip, I had to subscribe. I am probably intermediate level and learning Claire De Lune, roughly 1/3 to 1/2 the way through, when do you recommend incorporating the sustain pedal into practice? I’ve seen some teachers recommend practicing without the pedal because it can mask some of the note accuracy/inaccuracy. Generally, I’ve been trying to nail down the notes in small sections, without the pedal, slowly, then once I get through the notes without error (probably 95% of the time) I’ll layer in dynamics etc along with the pedal (which does make it slightly more challenging). I usually try to practice notes only slowly at one part of the day and then maybe later in the day, revisit it trying to make it sound more “performance” ready with the pedal and have fun with it (but also trying to minimize errors, so the tempo may be a little slower). Any recommendations are appreciated. Maybe I should get through the entire piece, nailing down all notes without tempo, dynamics and the pedal and then laye those on after? Or do you like to perfect each section/bar in all aspects before moving on to a new section? Thanks!

[@PianistAcademy1]

Work on pedal as soon as you possibly can. Yes, there is still and always a benefit in checking your practice without pedal, but too much work without pedal can lead to technical mistakes that will prohibit us from learning more and more, plus working without pedal doesn't train your ears to listen to bad vs good vs great pedal work, which is incredibly important in performance. By the way, when you are ready, I have a full course on this piece! You can check out the free preview of it here to help you as you learn: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d4KtfqOVn5KAeq8 And you can also listen to my own performance of the piece here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHibd6ajaLKknKc

[@justinheldsinger3526]

Wow, thanks so much, really appreciate your help and taking the time/effort to respond (even on a clip that’s a year old)! I will definitely take a look at the links you sent over. Thanks again!

[@serwoolsley]

practise smarter, not harder!

[@PianistAcademy1]

That’s right!

[@mickizurcher]

Re: plateaus… I’m ordering the book but in the meantime, I’m very eager to understand what you mean about the plateau because that exactly describes where I’m at. I feel like every piece I get to comes to a certain point and I cannot polish it. Does that sound like a plateau?

[@PianistAcademy1]

I think there can be various types of plateaus that take some specific kinds of practice and discipline to overcome. Sometimes it's literally just a matter of the need to extend practice time with the right focus. Sometimes we need to change an approach. No matter what, polishing always requires that the hands learn what I call "autopilot." Without that, we will always need to be too focused on the physical aspects of playing and we won't be able to listen and feel the music as well as we can or should.

[@TommysPianoCorner]

Have you read The Perfect Wrong Note by William Westney? He introduces an interesting additional perspective to some of these issues.

[@PianistAcademy1]

I haven't read it, but I have read your review of the book on your blog! I'll have to order a copy and see what Westney says in detail. If you're familiar with "The Bulletproof Musician" podcast, there was an episode on May 21st called "The Superiority of Intentionally Imperfect Practice" that you might find interesting. The episode is only 9 minutes long and doesn't come to a fantastic musical conclusion, but it is eye opening. The host of the show is Noa Kageyama, current Juilliard faculty member.

[@TommysPianoCorner]

@@PianistAcademy1 thanks for the tip. I’ll try to look it up. Westney’s book is very interesting. I think as with everything, it is important to apply the advice appropriately. Like many people, I reached the ‘plateau’ (not to say ceiling) that my intuition would get me to (around Grade 7/8 in my case), up to which point it almost doesn’t matter how you practice as everything is easy. Beyond that progress I feel is harder won. I despair when I see the well meaning advice of ‘switch on your metronome etc.’ - might be fine BEFORE the natural plateau we all have, but won’t get us beyond :-)

[@mickizurcher]

@@TommysPianoCorner I’m ordering the book but in the meantime, I’m very eager to understand what you mean about the plateau because that exactly describes where I’m at. I feel like every piece I get to comes to a certain point and I cannot polish it. Does that sound like a plateau?

[@TommysPianoCorner]

@@mickizurcher I believe that with pretty much any skill, we have a certain amount of natural intuition that helps us get to a certain point with just a modicum of work. To get beyond that is simply hard work! This point will be different from one person to the next. For a non-musical example, I have seen people on their first experience of scuba diving look like they had done it all their lives whereas others appear in serious danger of drowning. I was in the latter category but worked hard and am now a Divemaster. Equally, with piano, some will progress rather rapidly to quite an advanced level almost effortlessly. Yet they will reach a point where even they need to really work hard to progress beyond where their intuition will take them. This is what I mean by the plateau - we reach a certain point and then find we don’t progress. This is basically where we need to get much smarter about how we practice as simply ‘practice slowly’ won’t cut it anymore. I hope that makes sense :-)

[@katttttt]

14:52 yeah definitely not good at all xD (Becauce this is already impressive)

[@isplosion794]

i see both fast n slow utilizing both

[@PianistAcademy1]

Yes utilize both, at the right times!

[@jowr2000]

Thanks for the Claire de Lune 😁

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks for the Super, Jose! And I'm glad you enjoyed the performance :-)

[@serwoolsley]

Usually when i learn a new part of a piece, i, yes, play till the mistake inevitably happens, at that point i stop and start again, *but* if i'm playing like it's a performance and some mistakes happen, if they are not so ugly i'll try to continue and finish the piece, i belive, *that* is a skill itself, being able to recover from mistakes, especially for those of us who play by memory, because the physical motion becomes a bit different and muscle memory fails, at that point, you can't simply say "whelp, sorry guys, let's start from the beginning!" 🤣🤣 one question: would you say your posture here 13:43 is correct? cause i also tend to slouch a bit when i'm playing a bit faster and focussed on the keyboard, but i don't know if i should avoid doing that

[@PianistAcademy1]

Many times, we shouldn't be starting over from the beginning in practice... and of course never in performance either. By the time we reach a point where we are practicing longer sections of a piece, like a 16 or 32 bar segment, from top to bottom, we shouldn't be having trouble with wrong notes or rhythms anymore. Those longer bits of practice should most likely be focused on musicality. And yes, recovering from a mistake is another art in itself. Not at all what I'm talking about in this video! But a very important skill to develop. If too much practice is "mistake recovery" then we are simply practicing making the mistake first and then fixing it... instead of working toward a no-mistake performance and then being ready to adapt in performance if the need arises. Your posture question is a good one. When I truly sit down for a practice session of bigger classical rep (not filmed lol) the bench goes another inch or two back from where it is and I lean in, probably about this same amount. I've liked employing a strong forward lean during aggressive passages for many years. It gets more of the lower back engaged with the sound and produces a bigger tone more easily than the vertical or near-vertical posture. All that said, it's a choice I make and it doesn't impact (in a negative way) my technical capabilities or tension in the arms during playing. I wouldn't begin to teach a student how to incorporate this sort of posture until they already have shown really great control and fluid technique. I was in my undergrad program and preparing for my first time soloing with orchestra when my professor introduced lower back technique to me.

[@serwoolsley]

@Pianist Academy interesting, of course leaning a bit forward allows to bring more energy out to the passages that need it, while in others it should not be necessary. I think the choreography of the performance also plays a big role in what we end up doing but let's not go there lmao, surely that is something i don't need to worry about.. *yet* :P

[@PianistAcademy1]

@@serwoolsley Yes, there can be a bit of choreography, but I'm also a fan of letting our motions speak directly from the music... nothing contrived. If the motion is born of the emotion and technique, it will likely be musical, efficient, and pleasant to watch!

[@syzygy2464]

Easy answer is NO but practice should be done in a way that does not embed mistakes into muscle memory. It's OK to make mistakes, but slow down, correct them and get up to speed incrementally staying mistake free post correction. I was a guitarist for almost 30 years before playing piano seriously and the great Steve Vai's advice still applies: quality of practice is far more impactful than quantity of practice, so slow down.

[@beethovensg]

I will just go to Grahms channel. Thanks.

[@PianistAcademy1]

I take it you found his 5 seconds here more valuable than the other 18 minutes I presented?

[@beethovensg]

@@PianistAcademy1 succinctly for me it's the crux of the issue. I battle twords perfection using an impetuous of instruction over long periods, trying not to overthink.

[@PianistAcademy1]

@@beethovensg I do agree with Graham in that, for a great deal of our practice time, it needs to be aimed toward perfection in all of the ways he describes. But even with my advanced students prepping for auditions, it's rare they can tick all of the boxes, even at slow tempo. Beyond that, like I go on to explain here, slow practicing almost never leads us into the technique needed to execute fast/virtuosic passagework or octaves. In the cases that we *can* employ the slow practice work, it takes an incredible amount of body awareness to understand what "fast and correct" actually looks and feels like in "slow motion." I was recently watching a masterclass with Veda Kaplinsky of the Juilliard School working on Etudes with many students. One of the things she said, related to this topic, was that: in the passage in question in her class, fast and legato practice actually slows down to be more like piano dynamic and slight staccato practice. Without decades of practice and insights like that, it can be easy to think that fast legato should be played just like slow legato. But they simply don't connect. In a sense, I'm arguing that "the speed of no mistakes" actually still introduces one very important disconnect (or mistake) from performance tempo: the technique practiced at slow speeds is almost never the same way we use the playing mechanism at fast speeds. This is why, no matter how much slow practice a student might do on the Liszt variation I present, they'll never increase tempo to performance if they only practice slowly. In fact, students usually tense and lock up, creating extra tension, when they try to bring an only slow practiced segment up to tempo, which is the very opposite of virtuosic technique.