Picking the Right Swimming Technique - Freestyle

[@theraceclub]

Sun Yang uses a hip-driven freestyle. On the 1500 (rate 60), he kicks deceptively hard when the right hand enters the water and his head is under water in the most streamlined position. He then rests the legs on the left hand entry. His length and great rotation give him a strong underwater pull with a very high elbow (low frontal drag). What is most unique about Sun's stroke is the 3 or so consecutive breaths going into and out of each turn. Sun kicks with a hard 6 beat on the final 100 meters!

[@NOTHINGifNOTloyal]

In case you want to add it to your swim vernacular: What you call the Hybrid Stroke, Bob Bowman calls "Loping". And, by the by, thanks so much for the informative videos. I find that as an instructor and coach, the more info you're able your hands on, the more educated you can be, the better the instructor you are. Thanks again!

[@theraceclub]

If you look on our website, some of the first open water webisodes showed various breathing techniques. Part of your problem can be resolved by breathing more to the back, behind the wake your head creates.

[@attif8193]

aa

[@attif8193]

This "aa" must have been typed by accident. :)

[@ryanhe1783]

lol

[@theraceclub]

When using the hip-driven freestyle, one pushes the arm straight forward for a brief time before initiating the pull. It is during this time that the breath is taken. If you initiate the pull while the breath is taken, you are more likely using a shoulder-driven freestyle with a higher stroke rate. Either one can work and both have their advantages. Just be sure to pull through with a high elbow under water with either technique. Gary Sr.

[@lukeosgood5946]

Dr. Hall is the most knowledgeable coach Ive ever been coached by. You will become faster just hearing him talk.

[@theraceclub]

+Luke Osgood Thanks for the kind words!

[@jpl3-g2b]

Luke Osgood we wont become shit if we dont practice what he says :)

[@theraceclub]

The up and down motion you are referring to is a result of the change in the spine in the lower back. When the hand enters the water, the spine straightens and the head tucks down to create the position of least frontal drag. When initiating the catch to start the pull, the lower back arches slightly to increase the bio mechanical strength of the pull. From above, this appears as the up and down motion you are referring to. Gary Sr.

[@theraceclub]

Great to hear! Thinking about these different techniques definitely makes it more fun and interesting... keep switching it up and don't be afraid to try shoulder driven... you'll improve on all freestyle swimming techniques.

[@ArinaThomsen]

One of the best channels on swimming on KZbin. I find it very rare when such an excellent swimmer like you, Sir, can be absolutely clear and precise as a coach. Thank you very much again!

[@theraceclub]

Thanks!

[@uhaish]

one of the best swimming video on web . Thanks for posting it .

[@theraceclub]

MIke Bottom was the coach that defined Hip-driven, Shoulder-driven and Body-driven freestyle in about 2006 at the ASCA meeting. The terms are fairly well recognized today by most swimming coaches.

[@theraceclub]

We teach both recovery techniques, or above water, the arm can be straight or have a bend in the elbow. What is most important is having good rotation with the shoulders. We find that most swimmers that tend to be tight in the shoulders or trap muscles, a straight arm recovery will help them rotate the shoulders more... hope this helps.

[@theraceclub]

I agree. It seems to combine the advantages of both the shoulder driven freestyle for sprints and the hip driven for distance to make a great technique for middle distance, like the 200.

[@theraceclub]

If there is a mechanical problem causing the pain in the shoulder (usually due to over use), then once the inflammation has subsided, one can reduce the risk of this reoccurring by using a hip-driven technique and merely by taking fewer strokes. I suggest you do stretches of the shoulder daily before or after practice, especially shoulder extension...it is essential to have good extension in order to pull correctly in freestyle.

[@fclavijo]

Thanks very much for taking the time to make this video. I'm 40yo and have been swimming all my life, normally longer distances (1.5km, 3km, 5km y a few 10km in open water) and just now I've come to realize that I use the "hip driven stroke", or what I used to call "the effortless glide" that uses the strenght of the pull to regulate speed. I switch to what I now know is called the "hybrid stroke" for the finishing 400 yards or simply when I get excited in the pool. Very mcuh appreciated.

[@theraceclub]

Hybrid freestyle works well for middle distance from 100 meters to 400 meters. Some use it for distance events also.

[@theraceclub]

You are welcome. Glad it helped you! Gary Sr.

[@theraceclub]

I agree, Gerald. All changes in technique require time to practice and time to compete effectively.

[@theraceclub]

Yes. The body rotation increases the power one can achieve from each underwater pull. It creates a force to pull against...very important!

[@theraceclub]

Thank you. It is all about getting the little things right and then training very hard.

[@theraceclub]

You can get a lot of lift from your kick and the two beat kick doesn't do much for either lift or propulsion. A six beat kick takes a lot more effort so your legs have to be in good shape. When your hand enters the water after the recovery, tuck your chin down so your head is in the down position. You can arch your back slightly when you start the propulsive phase of your pull.

[@theraceclub]

He also has the advantage of an extremely large surface area (long arms) to pull with (using high elbow), coupled with a big hip/body turn and a strong kick that delivers maximal propulsion as the right hand enters after the breath (most streamlined moment)...creates a very fast swimmer.

[@oscarpalacios22]

This is a great video and explanation, I remember Jazon Lezak winning the relay against Bernard using the hybrid technique. Michael Phelps 2nd Gold 2008 Beijing Olympics Swimming Men's 4 x 100m Freestyle Relay Best regards Mr. Hall

[@benbazli]

Good to hear there is a hybrid freestyle. I use this technic in my swimming. Before this i thought my stroke was wrong because on my right side i tend to hold my hand to the front a bit longer than the other side. Thank you so much for this explanation Mr.Gary Hall

[@theraceclub]

our pleasure! Hybrid always works better with a strong kick.

[@checka1963]

Probably the best advanced freestyle swimming intro video on KZbin. One thing however to add is I think there is a one other angle to offer on technique from studying Sun Yang technique where he strongly emphasises timing of a (same side) hard kick with the very high elbow arm pull. I believe this enables a greater connection through the core and a bit more power than traditional hip driven stroke techniques where the legs are relatively trailing more.

[@theraceclub]

I would agree. It is the opposite leg kicking after the opposite hand enters the water that accentuates the down kick (which is the same thing you are saying). Sun Yang uses a modified 2 beat kick on all but the final 100 meters of the 1500 meter freestyle. He uses a steady 6 beat kick on the 400 and shorter races.

[@swimmingsecrets2354]

Nice Video! From my 12years of experience as a competitive swimmer my 50 (21.29) and 100 (46.19) yard freestyle techniques look far different than any other longer distance race. This is probably because I don't have to worry to much about my energy and how much I breath.

[@theraceclub]

Takes a lot of energy to sprint well. Most of the sprint velocity (likely 60%) comes from the kicking speed.

[@theraceclub]

@risenflame yes, this is very true...the legs are the swimmer's engine! Make sure you check back over the coming weeks for our series on legs and how to make you a better kicker.

[@Henrique-ng9ev]

I think I do the hybrid and perhaps it's a natural choice since when you are not breathing you have no reason to wait to catch (just enough time to avoid catching air) and when you are breathing you need to wait a little more so you don't lose stability while breathing. Thank you I could not realise that without the video.

[@matth2904]

I wish there was something like this that explained backstroke techniques for sprint and longer distances.....

[@theraceclub]

All great sprinters use a fast stroke rate, symmetrical, shoulder-driven freestyle. Hybrid freestylers show an irregularity in their pattern of recovery, almost like a horse gallop, but this technique is better suited for the middle distance events.

[@Foxsloth]

Latest 100m WR says otherwise.

[@theraceclub]

Bob calls it loping. In Texas, they call it the gallup. I like the term hybrid freestyle, because it combines shoulder driven and hip driven into one technique.

[@robohippy]

I remember watching this one a while back, and not understanding it. May have watched it several times, but with your 'Octane Levels' clip, it makes sense. Shoulder driven, straight arm recover, and arms reciprocating (one recovers as the other one pulls) it works. For sure better for shorter sprints...

[@theraceclub]

Glad it makes more sense now. Yes...high octane, shoulder driven is better for sprints.

[@lightyear3429]

Could you explain it to me? What's the difference between shoUlder driven and hip driven, if for both the end result is hips and body rotating to the side?

[@robohippy]

To me it is in the name. In any land based sport, that uses rotation. from a golf swing to throwing a shot put, the energy starts at the feet and goes through the hips, to the shoulders and out the fingers and hand. Some times you have feet spread like golf, some times you step into it like the hammer throw or a baseball pitch. Can't be done with water based sports because there is nothing to 'anchor' your feet to to generate the rotation, and with swimming, we are pulling, not throwing. So, in order to generate rotational forces, the only lever we have that can be used as an anchor is our arm. With all the different styles of freestyle, without exception, the pulling arm engages first, then the hips rotate, and then the foot on the same side of the pulling arm engages/kicks, and finally the recover arm completes the shoulder rotation. The shoulders rotate independently from each other, and not at the same time. This is easier to see in slow motion, and especially if the person is doing the 2 beat kick. This is why the #1 kick is the power or surge kick, and the other two are much weaker, oh, for the 6 beat freestyle kick. People have no trouble understanding that the dolphin kick used with the fly travels from the upper body to the feet, but think it works the other way when doing freestyle. That, I don't understand at all.

[@theraceclub]

Start with wall kicking, holding your outstretched arms against the wall with head down or a snorkel and head down. Learn to create a splash. If you are not creating a splash with the legs your legs are either too deep or not getting enough excursion in the kick....or both. Gary Sr.

[@theraceclub]

The choice of using a fast stroke rate (shoulder driven) vs a slower stroke rate (hip driven) depends a great deal on the strength of the swimmer's kick and the fitness level. Without a strong kick, a faster arm stroke rate can lead to a faster swim, but must be accompanied by lots of aerobic training in order to keep the pace.

[@Wheel333]

I was watching the Fina 1500m worlds yesterday and noticed this hybrid stroke sort of asymetrical, half smooth half swinger. Thanks for the clarification and analysis very interesting.

[@theraceclub]

You are welcome!

[@theraceclub]

If it hurts in the front (likely bicep tendonitis) it may be because you are pulling too deeply. If you pull correctly with a high elbow, you will more likely get soreness in the back of your shoulder not the front. In either case, ice the shoulder after practice, use anti inflammatory meds if necessary or try Ortho Chon Plus from Platinum Performance..which is safer way to reduce inflammation.

[@perstahlberg8774]

Yes ty for reply. It seems to me that he uses an extrem hipdriven style. He starts with hip and big down kick that paves the way for the catch/pull And before his big pull his hole body already is streamelined at surface of the water with added pace. and therefor makes his pull easier.

[@theraceclub]

Stroke rate is the number of strokes per minute. In freestyle, if I swim with a stroke rate of 60, that means I take 30 left arm and 30 right arm strokes per minute. A stroke cycle is hand entry to hand entry, so in butterfly or breaststroke the stroke rate equals the cycle rate. In free or fly the stroke rate is twice the cycle rate. In some instance coaches refer to stroke rates when they really mean cycle rates...so be careful.

[@hackmigueluc]

This is great, I'm pretty new to swimming (in a serious way) but I'm learning a lot and I think I'm improving pretty well.

[@afara2000]

I always wondered about Phelps style that why his left and right strokes are not equal! After seeing this video clip, now I realize what he is doing. I think Phelps and Lezak have an additional motion when sprinting which is up an down motion in area of upper body.

[@theraceclub]

Use a six beat kick and develop the stamina to continue. Takes lots of work and ankle flexibility. Check out the Race Club videos for instruction on dryland and kicking. We did a four part series on the legs.

[@theraceclub]

Extension of the shoulders (rearward motion) is extremely important in freestyle and in butterfly. Also may prevent injuries. Gary Sr

[@theraceclub]

Sun Yang swims most of the 1500 hip-driven at a stroke rate about 60 strokes per minute (cycle rate of 30), yet on the last 50 meters he goes to about 90 strokes per minute and turns the power up on his kick. His last 50 meters is faster than most Olympic swimmers finish their last 50 of the 100 free. It is truly remarkable. In my opinion the hybrid works best for the middle distances, 100 and 200..or up to 400 meters.

[@harcesp]

Thank your for your video, I am 35 and starting to learn how to swim, I am overweight so I hope this exercise can help me be in shape. :)

[@theraceclub]

Shoulder driven freestyle is like putting the gas pedal all the way to the floor. More energy in and if coordinated well, more speed out. Even sprinters train up to 8 hrs per day to get ready to swim a fast 50. No one said swimming fast is easy! Gary Sr.

[@angus208]

You also need to start swimming with your major muscle groups to which for instance is your lats. As i assume you put alot of pressure on your upper traps which will be again due to your shoulder swim stroke. there are many exercises that can release the upper traps and strengthen your lats

[@BillRatio]

Thanks! And thanks for the fast reply. You guys have the best swimming videos on the internet!

[@sscswimmer1]

I just want to add that I've found that a 2 beat kick is more effectively taught by matching the catch with the down kick of the same side. The timing is the same in either case, but the connection comes from the downbeat transferring leverage onto the arm that's out front anchoring.

[@theraceclub]

Most commonly, we see the down kick occur after the hand entry of the opposite arm.

[@FinishStrongTraining]

Suggestion: 20 X 150. Rest 30-40s. Odds = Hip Driven and Evens = Shoulder Driven. Record all times and compare styles after the session. The stopwatch doesn't lie. This is one of my favorite swim videos.

[@desideratha]

Thanks for replying. It's precisely because I've seen the underwater videos of many Olympic swimmer all using the high elbow catch, that the results of this Hopkins study stating that a deep stroke is more efficient and more effective, confused me.

[@outlawcatcher1]

I am very much a self coached swimmer so just want to get my 800m time below 15min first. I am from the UK but spending my winter in Mexico so will have time to train...I hope this video will help with my training...

[@زاهرأحمد-ز1ن]

Thank you Mr. Hall, this video help me so much.

[@theraceclub]

You are welcome!

[@AdemarFragosoJr]

Excellent video! Just to be sure: when you refer to shoulder driven, the recovery phase is with a straight arm, but the underwater phase is still should made with high elbow. Is that correct? Is is not so clear in the video. It seems that when a shoulder driven style is used, that affects the underwater phase as well and it doesn't seem so evident that a high elbow during underwater is used when compared to the hip driven style. Sometimes I can see there is a confusion between high elbow pull and high elbow recovery.

[@theraceclub]

In every freestyle event from 100 meters and up, the pull should be with a high elbow. Shoulder driven freestyle can be done with a straight arm, or bent arm, but implies that the stroke rate is pretty fast...like in the 90's and up.

[@theraceclub]

Thinking about these things and going out and swimming is always GOOD! It's hard to say without seeing you swim. You may want to check out our vid "How to Position your Hands Underwater".... stretching the 'shoulders' is usually a good thing in all swimming technique... again it really depends on how your doing it?

[@andrewmarkb96]

yeah I know I just struggle with it I think its because now I swim in public pools so when it is busy I am wary of how much I splash plus I like to give make my upper body work harder by not kicking, I havent raced in a long time

[@theraceclub]

Yes you want to pull immediately as your hands enter the water in Shoulder driven... get right into the catch. You won't have much choice if you want to have a competitive stroke rate in the 50.

[@theraceclub]

@harrirman While you are right about not overkicking in a longer race, it's still very important to have a strong kick. Sun Yang uses a 2 beat kick throughout the race until the end when he turns on a 6 beat kick to finish in a 25 second 50! Without a tremendous feel for the water with his feet Sun's 2 beat kick wouldn't be as effective. Don't you think Hackett would have beaten Goodell if he had a stronger kick? When you want to turn it on and beat the swimmer next you, you better have a kick!

[@theraceclub]

Simply put, shoulder driven means faster arm stroke rate. Attack the water from above with your hand and initiate the pull as soon as possible....Don't push your hand forward out the front or delay. That will turn into shoulder driven freestyle...using the arms as a propeller rather than an airplane wing or paddle.

[@getpony]

Hi there, just want to thank you for the video, it is really interesting. I didn't see many videos that talk about different strokes and ways to swim in the same style and with such good examples. Thanks!

[@theraceclub]

We all need the Sunday stroll sometimes. Just need to know how to crank it up. With hip-driven freestyle, that means you'd better have some strong kick behind you.

[@theraceclub]

Every swimmer in the sprints uses shoulder driven technique with a fast stroke rate. In the distance events, we see some hip-driven (stroke rate of 60 to 65) and some shoulder driven (85 to 95). No one can sustain a hard 6 beat kick for 1500 meters or more. The hip-driven technique depends more on having a good kick. With shoulder driven the swimmer relies more on the propulsion of the arms, and less on the legs. 2 beat or soft 6 beat is recommended for shoulder driven (except in sprints).

[@beatplate]

I'm a 50-100m freestyler now in university and my level has gone done a lot since school and full training! I've only recently heard of shoulder-driven freestyle (I use hip-driven) would you recommend 're-learning' freestyle using the shoulder-driven for sprinting? Thanks very much

[@theraceclub]

Start with the Kick. A beginner won't be able to comprehend the three styles until they have a good feel for the water with the feet and the hands. Naturally most people learn a hip driven freestyle first because learning to be efficient is more important in the beginning than being fast.

[@missjen1983]

Thank you so much, I'm a very shoulder driven. But looking to get some more hip rotation though, so I will try you technique out! :)

[@Kemenyan73]

Wow oh Wow . Thanks for the informative video . Gives a lot of insight for intermediate and advanced swimmers to improve .

[@theraceclub]

You are welcome!

[@johnmar1622]

awesome, i got it, combine of both shoulder and hip..thanks very much...you have unleashed the secret of better swimming. Would this work with butterfly?

[@theraceclub]

butterfly also has two distinctively different techniques...early and late breath technique. One can also side breathe in fly.

[@johnmar1622]

@@theraceclub thanks.

[@theraceclub]

You can also do most of these drills with the Snorkel by Finis so you won't need to turn your head.

[@Supernivek80]

Wow this explains a lot for me. I don't realize I was bouncing all over the place. I guess if I shake it up during my laps, that's kind of good from an interval perspective.

[@leomdk939]

Thank you -- I've recently switched from swimming mostly long distances (1500+) in my workouts for years to doing a HIIT workout, so I've started sprinting 50's. Had solid "beginner's gains" the first few weeks, but I've gotten to a point where I can't really seem to get my 50 any faster no matter what I do and now I see that I'm still using the hip-driven technique you demonstrated first in this video. I now see that I likely need to develop a shoulder-driven technique to improve further. This gives me a very good starting point to learn more and most likely improve my 50's. Thanks! (BTW - if you have any other advice for transitioning from long-distance to sprinting, I'm all ears.)

[@theraceclub]

Sprint swim training, strength training and trade in your muscle fibers for more fast twitch. Oh work on your kicking speed. My son was not a natural sprinter (fast twitch) but could sprint well enough to win two Olympic 50 meter sprints because he could out kick them all.

[@leomdk939]

@@theraceclub Thank you so much for the advice. I've begun weight training (about three weeks ago) and I will begin to focus on my kicking speed in the pool. Thanks, too, for sharing that your son was not a natural sprinter -- it's always inspiring to hear about when someone successful has overcome a lack of natural ability, because on a much smaller scale, that's what 99% of us are trying to do, too.

[@theraceclub]

Join the club. Most swimmers cannot kick well enough or long enough to get much advantage....without some serious training and dryland stretching. Not a bad tactic to use a 2 beat kick...but those that are most successful at it are also using a high stroke rate. A 2 beat kick with a long glide of the hand out front is a Sunday stroll swim.

[@BillRatio]

When coaching beginners is there any one style you would recommend teaching? Where do you start when teaching freestyle?

[@theraceclub]

The hand on the freestyle pull should drop directly below the elbow while maintaining the elbow near the surface and push relatively straight back. If the hand passes near the chest, it is too deep and the upper arm too vertical, creating too much frontal drag.

[@Motiwah2]

this was a great video, I'm learning how to swim, so its great seeing these different techniques, hoping my leg movement improves and becomes more powerful. .

[@sksdvkns]

very nice and helpfull video. Thank you. what' s your opinion of taking breath from both sides? I find it more relaxing for me. Could you please tell me why after swimming a have short of a pain on the lower part of my back? I also try to breath out from the nose, but I still drik some portion of water. I only want to swimm slow but for much time, just for daily exercise, not championship :-)) Thank you for your time.

[@soscar5050]

I will try it, it's very professional, that is exactly what am looking for

[@theraceclub]

Long arms are an advantage if you use them properly. Pull with a high elbow and build strength in your scapula (upper back) to do so better

[@theraceclub]

Getting the kick faster is a long term project where you need to get the ankle flexibility, leg power and fitness to move the legs fast and long. This requires stretching, strength training and lots of kicking.

[@pokeken]

Hi Great vid! when do you do the burst exhale? When you are still completing the last stroke before moving your head for air or as you move your head for air? Thx

[@garyhallsr1]

Back in the 90's Anders Holmerz of Sweden did 1:46 200 meter freestyle and the fastest he could kick a 100 meters was 1:40 (very slow by world class standards). His stroke rate in the 200 free was 120 on the first and last laps and around 110 to 115 on the second and third fifty. The point being is that one can still swim fast without a great kick...but you have to adopt the right technique. Anders used his arms like propellers. Gary Sr.

[@theraceclub]

You are welcome!

[@dchris12378]

so do your hands on the shoulder driven technique are they on top of the water and then you pull immediatly because i am a sprinter 2 and i am not sure which 2 do

[@afara2000]

Thanks Gary for explanation. Your hints and points are very helpful. Who is the swimmer above demonstrating nice techniques? Is it Gary Hall Jr? I like the way he swims.

[@fakemanthesreen8377]

i really learned alot ..............i want to know how to improve it

[@theraceclub]

Good set! Gary Sr.

[@ravi28948]

Great, educative video. At 65 I am learning to swim. I saw this video with fascination hoping one day I could swim like you. Please tell me, how you exhale? through mouth or nose? In breaststroke I exhale through mouth and seems fine but a local coach says one should breath out through nose. Which one is correct?

[@andylaurel]

Great video Gary. I have a masters swim meet tomorrow. Hoping to go sub 24!

[@theraceclub]

You want to keep the air in your lungs as long as possible and then burst exhale right before taking another breath. Most of that goes through the mouth (some through the nose) as it is a larger area to get the air out.

[@Tuemtuci]

in my sprints i am noticing i will hold my upperbody high in the water and have a slow down kick and fast upkick, would i be better to bury my head a bit and try a sixbeat kick. i already get a lot lift because i attack the water with nearly straight arm stroke.

[@RedHareBKK]

Thanks for explaining the differences. So, did Sun Yang do his last 50-75m of the 1500m Final with the hybrid vs shoulder driven for the first 28-29 laps? Hybrid is not as beautiful to watch but is it closest to "perfect" for many pool distances?

[@ArthurSavage]

This is an excellent video. Thanks for uploading!

[@weijie210]

For the hybrid stroke, do we keep roll much to our non-breathing side? When you said shoulder driven for non-breathing stroke, does it still mean we keep a high elbow but we do not reach out forward with our arm? So the hybrid stroke is about pulling faster with one arm and recovering faster with another? sort of like a galloping motion? Please help thanks!!

[@theraceclub]

The main difference is stroke rate and how quickly you start your catch once your hand enters the water. Nearly every swimmer in the 50 and 100 will use a high stroke rate, shoulder driven freestyle.

[@zachary1599]

well i have a swim meet today thx for the tips!

[@jamesmrflexbarnes]

Awesome video, just what I wanted, lots of camera angles to show me visually, Thank you, :)

[@Blayze1983]

Mr Hall, what do you recommend for sprint/olympic/half ironman triathlons? I'm assuming hip-driven "reach" method, but I'm also 5'4 with small hands and feet, so I'm not sure if that changes your answer! Thanks for the wonderful video!

[@theraceclub]

The technique must be developed for each swimmer. Most triathletes that do not have good kicking speed will fare better with a higher stroke rate shoulder driven type of freestyle..but with good body rotation. The slower hip driven technique may not consume as much energy...but is usually slower than shoulder driven.

[@ajay60610]

Whhat's the best way to develop a strong kick...do you recommend kicking with leg weights...thks.

[@TheWildheartmuse]

Clear and concise instruction. Thank you.

[@theraceclub]

You are welcome!!

[@theraceclub]

You are most welcome!

[@theraceclub]

Developing the legs will take weeks...not months or years. So long as you work on the legs a lot and build the right flexibility you can improve your kick and your base swimming speed. Each season they will get faster.

[@andrewmarkb96]

what i do is for the first few strokes i use my arms then i use bursts of kicks to propel me forward.

[@EffortlessSwimming]

Great video Gary, I'll be sharing this with my community

[@theraceclub]

The engineers at JHU looked at lift and power, but did not consider frontal drag forces in their analysis. If you want power, pull deeper. If you want more sustained speed and less frontal drag, pull with a high elbow. If you don't believe me, just watch the underwater pull of every fast distance swimmer in the world..male or female. All pull with a high elbow.