Pickleball! Do These Players Possess 4.0 Skills? Learn By Watching Others!

More and more players are posting their games on youtube. Here's one I came across proclaiming to be at the 3.75-4.0 level. Are the players that good? Please let me know what you think by leaving a comment in the comment section below.
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[@P4Pickleball]

From a player who knows these people and this club well- most of these players are new to tournament play- if you notice DUPR lately the algorithms are way off on a low number of matches. We have ppl winning a 3.0 tourney and getting 4.5 DUPR’s which is crazy. I really like your videos and the break downs in skill level are accurate. I don’t think many players have your level of perspective so they are just playing by what they think their perspective DUPR is. Keep em coming! Fantastic break down!

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thank you so much! That's really nice of you to say. I'm going to have to do some more research into the dupr algorithm thing.

[@aaronseminoff]

These videos are legitimately the most helpful pickleball strategy videos I have ever watched. Please keep making them.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

That's a very, very nice compliment. There are some really great instructors on KZbin. I just do things a little differently than they do. I really appreciate you watching.

[@grateful3300]

I agree!! Nice break downs that have helped me a lot!!

[@sarahdaly516]

Don't let this fool fool you! Go do your own research on KZbin and let this troll keep doing his thing... But don't give him an even more inflated ego

[@garnotte12]

Don’t need 17 min of that game to know they’re not 4.0. It’s probably 3.0 and some have 3.5 shots dispersed here and there. They just don’t have any soft hands at the net. In a 4.0 game, you may have a chance to smash a ball once or twice max. In this video, there is a smash opportunity at almost every play.

[@johnsamothrakis4621]

Hello & Thank You for very helpful videos. Just started playing & find your video’s the Best One’s on Utube. 👍👍👍

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Really??? Thanks for the compliment!

[@silverdc5]

if they are 4.0 am Ben Johns

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

I've heard that before. Thanks for watching.

[@MrBrad777c]

I would rate the guys on the near court 3.25 and the mixed team as 3.0 and thats being generous

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching and thanks for your opinion.

[@gdog2330]

Totally agree

[@frankcrenshaw2880]

yep

[@adamwilliams78]

Definitely not even 3.5’s and the girl didn’t make a single good shot

[@Mark-wp8zz]

I learn a lot by watching your critiques, thank you! I agree with you in your assessment that consistency of a true 4.0 player is absent here. Sure…a few good shots but rarely two in a row. Lots of beginner mistakes too ( not moving to kitchen after a deep return, several foot faults, trying to speed up when the opportunity is clearly not ideal ). Thanks for a great channel!

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

You're more than welcome! I really appreciate you watching.

[@tonyverbeck3901]

Rory - I'd like to hear you talk about two things. First, are players at least trying to hit the right shot? If so, then that's good but then the second thing comes into play - are they physically able to hit the right shot? For example, it's good that some players try to hit a third shot drop - but they are only able to hit an effective third shot drop 10% of the time. Which is another thing I'd like to hear you discuss - percentages. For example, I would expect a 4.0 player to hit a good third shot drop 80% of the time. A 5.0 player would hit a third shot drop 95% of the time. Thanks!!

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for asking. I'll take into consideration what you have suggested. I agree with the 80%. 95% is high. Remember, when playing against 5.0 players, they hit the ball topspin. They hit the ball hard. Sometimes, it makes a third shot drop more difficult. If I hit 100 third shot drops with my ball machine, my goal is to hit 80% of them into the kitchen. And that's off of a ball machine that is hitting me the same shot every time.

[@davidhills6237]

I am playing in central California this would be 3.0 - 3.25

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Probably so! Thanks for watching.

[@CyberSonic157]

USAPA ratings don't differ by region. They have objective definitions

[@donaldlenardson6291]

By the time a player is actually a 4.0 , he or she will be in the correct court position nearly 100 % of the time . Not some of the time , but all of the time . Right there , that's all I need to see to assess all these players as 3.0 . ( and that's being generous! ))

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Good point. Thanks for watching.

[@optonaut-sv8ih]

3.5 near court, 3.0 far court

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching. I see this a lot. Most players have a much higher opinion of what level they are at.

[@Barry-R]

Not a chance they are 4.0 players. Maybe not even 3.5. I'm a 3.0 and could probably hang with these guys. Awesome channel and it really has made me a better PB player. Thanks!

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Not really glad the channel is helping you. Thanks for watching.

[@duanestclair]

As you pointed out there was a lack of dinking rallies. That is a sure sign of play below 3.5. I would rate them 3.25 at best.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

One requirement to be a 3.5 player is to be able to hit consistent third shot drops and resets. Thanks for watching.

[@picklerun361]

3.25 at my club (Philly area). But a group 20 minutes away could call it a 4.0. Ratings seem to vary not only region to region but even club to club. My club has been opened 7 months with players from various areas and it is a DUPR mess. They are working on it, by having the pros watch the players in a match (for a fee, of course😊 They don't give a rating, however--just classify as 4.0+ or not

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Really? They charge a fee! Are they really pros, or instructors? I agree with, it does matter what state and even which facility you're playing at. Thanks for watching.

[@underhandedtoss]

Hello fellow Bounce friend

[@underhandedtoss]

It's a mixture - first off anyone who earns a teaching certification gets called a "pro" in philly area even if they aren't any better than a 3.5. But Bounce does have some legit high level players as ratings judges, with the biggest name being Morgan Evans. Most of the rest are legit 5.0 players who have competed and succeeded in open brackets and a few have played against pros in tournaments before.@@pickleballpick-apart9787

[@picklerun361]

@@underhandedtoss Uh oh--busted!!! Trying to be incognito. See you soon :-)

[@richf1182]

My sport is badminton but I have played a bit of Pickleball, I've no idea about the grading system but to me these players seem like near beginners?

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

I think they're further along than beginners. 4.0? I highly doubt it. Badminton translates to pickleball really well. You should be very good in no time. Thanks for watching.

[@richf1182]

@pickleballpick-apart9787 I did OK when I tried it, might have surprised a few 'ballers for my first time 😉

[@texasscot6669]

Ex badminton, new pickle baller here. If I could keep out of the kitchen life would be a lot better lol.

[@joedavies372]

None of these players are 4.0. Lucky to 3.25

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching and thanks for your opinion.

[@ftbutler]

I would agree that the guys are like 3.4 and the lady maybe 3.25. This would probably be lower taking into account regional biases. As Rory stated this may very be the state of play in Illinois

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching and thanks for your opinion.

[@theachaplin3276]

Just an opinion, but from what I’ve seen when you start to move towards and ultimately past the 4.0 mark you see fewer drives and more drops and dinks. And along with that comes longer and longer points. I would say this isn’t quite 4.0 level play where I’m from, but every region has their own self rating scale. And without utilizing DUPR or a similar club rating system you’re own your own to rate yourself. I don’t necessarily think this group is inflating their rating per se. I think it’s more of a comparison to other players near them.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

I think you are somewhat correct. You're only as good as the players you're playing against. Maybe they win every game playing against lesser players and think that makes them 4.0.

[@douglasmurdoch7247]

This isn’t true in reality. Go to challenge courts, and you’ll see that the 4.0-4.5 range is banger city. They hit the ball incredibly hard, and won’t dink to you unless you absolutely blast them with a couple counters. Once they fear your hands, they’ll turn to the soft game. But the 4.0 range is filled with players who have deadly drives and speedups.

[@theachaplin3276]

@@douglasmurdoch7247 I’m agreeing with you. I may not have made my point as clearly as I’d hoped. Yes, you will get absolutely hammered in that range. However, what I was trying to say is that to be appropriately rated at 4.0+ you’ll have the hands/countering ability to have your opponent transitioning into dropping the ball because you’ll be handling their drives. I think we’re on the same page. 👍

[@user-rh3lb6cy1n]

How can I submit a video to you for review?

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

If you have it posted on a KZbin channel, just send me the link. Thanks.

[@DuyTran-be5vv]

@@pickleballpick-apart9787 Hi Rory, would love for you to check out this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4LNkIx4d7qLqJY

[@justin354]

I don't know any 4.0 players who would make the mistake of the kitchen violation at 7:26 3.0 - 3.25 play here.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for pointing that out and thanks for watching.

[@lck2978]

I agree with most replies, that COLLECTIVELY they are in the 3.x range. I emphasize collectively 'cause I think the 2 players closest to the camera exhibit a little 4.0 potential. It's just not that obvious, perhaps due to the level of the other players. I've played for 15 years, mostly rec play where you're forced to play with anyone and everyone. So, the average/collective rating of a group will inevitably bring someone slightly up and another slightly down. I know for me personally, I get kind of slack if I'm playing less skilled players. To get better at this point, I have to intentionally block out all social elements and play my hardest, most aggressive game every time. Or sometimes I'll "play along" while focusing on a particular shot that I want to improve. The other big thing I've observed in 15 years is that people have an incredibly nuanced understanding of the rules & tactics of this sport. Forehand taking the middle just to name one. Ratings are no exception. And it's natural human tendency to rate ourselves a hair better than how we might rate others.😁

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

15 years, WOW! You were playing pickleball for before pickleball was cool! Nice to have someone with your experience watching my channel. So, how much has the game changed from 15 years ago?

[@lck2978]

@@pickleballpick-apart9787 I think the equipment is the biggest change😄 The ball has changed drastically. I imagine today's players would crush the old ball times 3 in just one game. LOTS more over-engineered paddles to choose from (I still have NOT spent over $100 on a paddle!😆 Santa brought me a $150 Paddletek one this past Christmas though.) I first started playing with a bunch of people at an old 24 hour fitness facility that had two courts: one with a layer of carpet over the concrete, the other court was typical wood/gymnasium floor, but a storage closet was only inches away from the right side of the kitchen-area court! And yet, there were several 5.0 level players that would come play there! Nowadays of course, the surfacing professionals have caught on and are making big bucks. Lots of people are working with their local city to build courts in public parks. The top USAPA rating used to be 5.0+, but now it's 5.5+. And course, it's just been in the last few years that DUPR has made it's mark, more double-hand backhands, and the offensive lob is slowly becoming more of a thing. (Dave Flemming points this out too.) It used to be that was ONLY a desperation/defensive shot to keep the ball in play. The actual method of play doesn't seem to have changed a whole lot, apart from people bringing extreme athleticism onto the court (Staksrud, Jack Sock, etc.)

[@davebaker3241]

The players in the closer court would be competitive in our 3.0 league but not dominate.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks. How would they do against players in your 4.0 league?

[@davebaker3241]

They probably wouldn’t score a point.

[@adamwilliams78]

They are definitely at or below 3.5. I consider myself a 3.5 and would be confident in a game against any of them.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching.

[@stuartfoster3067]

In solid 3.5 and better players, I'd expected to see 1)consistent split step advancement through the transition zone. 2)an effective ready position. 3) thoughtful shot selection. Not seeing much of these three skills puts this play closer to the 3.0 level in my estimation.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for applying those things out. I think you are correct.

[@markdouglas9825]

2.75-3.0 is a stretch Long Island NY

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

I think they're better than 2.75. Thanks for watching.

[@derrick031072]

All I look at is their footwork. You see that, you could already tell whether ur facing a good or bad player…

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks. I'm going to have to start pointing out footwork in future videos.

[@nchambers007]

@@pickleballpick-apart9787 GREAT add.

[@Ray96744]

What about their outfits? Wow!

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

What outfits? Lol!

[@dondigutierrez379]

if they are 4.0, they I should join to the Pro circuit

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

APP or PPA? Thanks for watching.

[@pjcpjc10017]

I consider myself a 3.0 at best and this would fall below that level. At 3.0 you should have a basic concept of court positioning and strategy. You may not be able to execute all the shots but you should be able to make the attempt at the correct shot selection. None of that really happened in this game which is why I would put them below 3.0 (at least where I play)

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Good point! So many players do not understand correct positioning. Thanks for watching.

[@get2aly]

Recently played a 3.5 mixed doubles tournament at Victory (same facility) and the level of play was much higher. Would love to send you a recording of one of my games and get your thoughts/feedback, pls let me know how I can share it with you.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for asking. The only way I can do it is if you have a KZbin channel and you send me a link to the video. I'll be happy to do it if you do.

[@get2aly]

@@pickleballpick-apart9787 appreciate it! i'm waiting for a friend to upload to his channel.. what's the best way to share the link and some details with you?

[@get2aly]

@@pickleballpick-apart9787 Hi Rory, was able to create a channel and post my video to it. I'll mention you on the video so you can check it out. Thanks!

[@brentrasmussen2440]

mixed team is 3.0 and the near-court team was maybe 3.5

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching and thanks for your opinion.

[@mariacopre4106]

Mixed team 3.0, Mens team 3.25

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching. I appreciate it.

[@shipleyt1]

Just a point above 3.0 👏🏻

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Probably accurate. Thanks for watching.

[@robbydridesemtb4428]

Oh my, they can't even get to a dink rally! My wife's DUPR is 3.2, she and a similar rated player would send any combo of these players packing. They are so far from even 3.5. This to me is 3.0 beginner play. Longest rally is 7-8 shots of discombutated paddle slapping. We play in SW Idaho, play here is as strong as anywhere in the nation. The weakest team in our recent 3.5 $ ball tournament would pickle either of these teams. Sorry Rory, these players are not 4.0, 3.5, but they are 3.0 players. Lessons then several hrs per week of drilling and they all could be 3.5 by summertime.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

True. That's if they ever drill or practice. I did not rate these players. That's what they rated themselves and it was in the title of their video. Maybe I can make it up to Idaho sometime. Sounds like there's some really good players up there. Thanks for watching.

[@user-yz2oh7hw6o]

Look like 3-3.25 players to me.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

I agree with that statement. Thanks for watching.

[@frankcrenshaw2880]

not 4.0 where I play. Looks like good 3.5 ish. Lots of drop attempts but no resets or dinking. Every other shot is a pop up followed by a drive. It could be that the far team is making so many mistakes it's easier to just drive everything. But far team isnt close to 4.0. Near team is clearly stronger and might be. But need to see stronger competition to know. But they look no where close to 4.0 honestly.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

I agree. Thanks for watching.

[@jgslade]

3.5 at best, that feels generous

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

It may be. Thanks for watching.

[@tonyverbeck3901]

These players are between 3.0 and 3.25 - I'm about 10 points in and I don't think I've seen any dinking at the kitchen yet.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

There wasn't any. Thanks for watching.

[@iKumala]

I feel sorry for the woman. Should be wearing full body armour 😂

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Good point. She's lucky she didn't get hurt.

[@robbydridesemtb4428]

No, actually, if she's a 4.0 she easily returns those weak body bags with a resounding not today. Not one player stood in a ready position if and when they sniffed the NVZ line.

[@franciscoalvarez1733]

They are between a 3.0 and 3.23

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching and thanks for your opinion

[@douglasmurdoch7247]

3.23? What lol

[@franciscoalvarez1733]

ops 3.25@@douglasmurdoch7247

[@lanceowens554]

These people appear to be 3.0 players to me. A long ways from 3.5 even.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching and thanks for your opinion.

[@pickleballnorthwest6351]

What I see are 3.0 players having fun at open play. The shot set up is non-existent for all four players, as well as footwork and technique is at the 3.0 level. There didn't appear to be any strategy with the shot making that I could see. No rallies or play at the net that didn't immediately turn into a firefight. The few good drops I saw were never followed up by moving forward. As for your comment on grip, while I agree that the majority of players use the Continental grip due to their tennis background, many high-level players use the ping pong style grip for pickleball. At least part of the time. Many times, players are changing their grip slightly as play goes on depending on shot selection. I just don't believe that is part of the equation when rating players. Your assessment of their play seems to be spot on throughout the game. I was waiting for you to give them a rating though.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thank you very much. I appreciate it. You are correct. Top level players do change their grip. Now, most of them play most of the time with an eastern grip and not a continental grip. Plus, when at the non-volley zone and hitting a backhand they may actually use a western grip. It's hard to change in a split second, but top pros can do it.

[@keithchasteen8593]

Not 4.0 play. Same thing happens in my region. I call it rating creep.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Rating creep. First time I've heard that. Thanks for watching.

[@MrOmoto]

Yes. I see what you are seeing. Not at that 4.0 level. Just not that accurate. All the things you are saying are correct. Resets, drops and then volley rallys last much longer. You may be right different areas are saying 4.0 but in another like Indiana, not a 4.0

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for agreeing with me!

[@ronb441]

not even close to 4.0-here is your video title Gold Medal Game at 2023 Nationals! 3.5 Level, Players 70+! What Does It Take To Win? These folks played all day and would rate them 4.0++, I think if these folks were fresh they would be at 4.5- What do you think??

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

I found out those players duprs are 4.5 4.9 4.5 5.0. Thanks for watching.

[@ronb441]

they were a pleasure to watch, I knew they were above 4.0@@pickleballpick-apart9787

[@Ed1956K]

I consider myself a 3.0, but I think I’m better than they are.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

You may be. Thanks for watching.

[@susansubbaraman6227]

Definitely not 4.0 ~ between 3.25-3.5

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks. I think that's more like it.

[@MrLbunting]

3.0

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching and thanks for your opinion.

[@mountaintop0616]

A number of good shots by all players but consistency is a problem. No, the woman is a 3.5 not 4.0. However, she has show ability to get better. Pickleball in states where the weather is better you will see a 4.0 being a 4.0. Many states/cities/towns do not have the facilities for this sport.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Very true. Thanks for watching.

[@ricday9296]

they are 3,0-3.25

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

I agree. Thanks for watching.

[@jfktoo5128]

Neither team would be anywhere near 4.0 in NJ. They would get run over. 3.25 at best.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching.

[@michaelmikula3299]

No one on this court is a 4.0 player. The play was uninspiring and hard to watch. I'd give them at best a 3.75 rating or a strong 3.5 for sure.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks! I appreciate you watching.

[@michaelstrayhorn6804]

This is 3.5 play at best

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

It is in Illinois. Maybe this is what 3.5 looks like.

[@user-tv6du3me4u]

I'm in Missouri, this somewhere between 3.0 and 3.5 play

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Maybe 3.25. Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment.

[@WesHicks1]

Sped, not speeded. 👍

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

You are exactly right. I caught that. But, I didn't go back and change it. It would have been too much trouble. Believe it or not, I have a degree in English! And I'm kind of a word Nazi. Thanks for watching.

[@rteitel1974]

Painful to watch. Lack of coordination and athleticism .

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

I think it has to do with more true pickleball skills. Thanks for watching.

[@Vanessa-pe2xs]

Sorry to say, but these players are certainly not 4.0..I'd say 3.5 is a stretch. This is coming from someone in a cold "fly over" state.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

I think you are correct. Thanks for watching.

[@bcablig]

Arkansas - 3.0 players

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching and thanks for your opinion.

[@bcablig]

How can I submit some videos to be reviewed? :) @@pickleballpick-apart9787

[@rowdstar]

Not even close

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching.

[@Charles-lz2tz]

max 3.0 being generous. Not one player has a backhand. not one player owns a dink. serves are weak. returns weak and erratic. no consturction of points.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching and thanks for your opinion.

[@Viewfromaboveproductions]

3.0 at best

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks. I appreciate you watching my channel.

[@alberts2208]

3.25 at best.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for your opinion.

[@donbailey5004]

I don't like the comment" if this lady is a 4.0 player, it sounds like your singling her out at end of video after we just acknowledged none of them are 4.0 players. Also, using the word body bag, is not a nice social word.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

No idea about the word body bag. I've heard hundreds of players use it with no complaints. Sorry if I offended you.

[@carolroberts2036]

They are most a 3

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching it. Thanks for your opinion.

[@robhessler9980]

Looks like 4.0 play to me.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Thanks for watching! In what state do you play?

[@robhessler9980]

@@pickleballpick-apart9787 Wisconsin. I actually play with Scott Swing who is on the far court.

[@sully7582]

haha.. this isn't even close to 4.0. If someone hits a great third shot drop and doesn't run to the nvz then they are 3.0 at best.

[@douglasmurdoch7247]

It’s most definitely not 4.0 play. Wisconsin isn’t even the worst pickleball state either. I think you may just not have the ratings pictured accurately.

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

@@douglasmurdoch7247 I didn't rate them. That's what the title of the video they posted claimed they are.

[@Guinnessdog77]

Those courts suck. No fence or nets between courts. How many points will have to be done over with other balls constantly coming into your court. Plus there is a good chance a player could slip on a ball. Someone is going to get hurt and end up owning that club….

[@pickleballpick-apart9787]

Most indoor courts do not have individual fences for each court. Maybe it's a cost issue. They could put up those movable triangle barriers. Thanks for watching.