The REAL Pilot Mistake That Got Dana Killed!

[@pilot-debrief]

AVIATE. NAVIGATE. COMMUNICATE. Dana made a tragic mistake but the controllers were a big contributing factor to this tragedy. Dana probably felt confident about her plan to land in Houston because she had recently landed in Dallas. Unfortunately, when things didn't go as planned she didn't have the experience to adjust and she most likely never expected she'd have to go around or land on Runway 35. Be sure to check out The REAL Pilot Mistake That Got Brittney Killed and the controversy about the airport she was trying to land at: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zqa2hqOVfJiaoNE

[@CommentsAllowed]

A prime example most can relate to is when driving a car on the highway. If you are missing your exit, and you immediate jerk your steering over to cross 2 lanes of traffic to get off the highway, that is you navigating without first "aviating".

[@debbie4503]

@pilot-debrief What kind of planes are behind you? And when did this happen? I live in Oklahoma and this is the first I have heard of her.

[@tonespeaks]

@pilot-debrief I love the video, but must strongly disagree with your conclusion about the Controllers. The Controllers job is to safely direct traffic, not assist in aviating, especially when the pilot doesn't request it. The commands that she was given were very routine, except for the one mistake the controller made by adding "heading" to his instructions. One of the first lessons taught is to fly within your capabilities and that of the aircraft. Her key mistake, is that she shouldn't have accepted a runway 35, because of the challenging scenario (downwind, with strong crosswind) that she wasn't comfortable with. If the Controller couldn't work her in, they would have directed her to divert to another airport. Dana didn't crash her plane because of the Controller's instructions, she crashed it because she didn't follow the correct procedures for operating the aircraft. While I totally agree being in Class B is challenging for some, this can't be in controllers minds. She planned to fly into Class B, so that added workload, should have been part of her preparations. This would require her to know the traffic patterns, density of traffic and how controllers give commands (more abbreviated instructions). It is very common in most busy airports that small aircraft are directed to smaller runways if there is difficulty mixing the traffic. All accidents are tragic, but the controllers were not a "big contributing factor" here, even with the increased workload, she should have still been able to operate the aircraft as instructed. Radio instructions shouldn't cause someone to forget how to operate an aircraft safely, or they shouldn't be flying. Maybe flying in Class B airspace should be a flight training requirement and/or flight test.

[@sugarcan1110]

If I pass PPL for at least 1 year I'll be having an instructor with me every time I'm freaking out ..with all these mishaps ..

[@boossersgarage3239]

Controller should not have that job...

[@chadfontaine2717]

I am a heli pilot and just listening to what she was going through gets my heart going. 100% I have chosen alternate landing sites/situations to limit the risk I put myself, my aircraft and my passengers in. But unfortunately that only came about with years of experience. In the early years I would get caught up in tyring so hard to follow plan A not knowing that plan A was an option not a rule.

[@simpinainteasyRHEC]

Hoover, you're such a kind soul. I cannot thank you enough for your diligence in educating the people, while at the same time, having empathy for those lost. ❤

[@thirstypilgrim97]

*sympathy

[@Sommers234]

Lifelong sailor, non aviator here and I find your technical analysis riveting and fascinating.

[@chromolitho]

His analysis is always the best part. He could probably analyze the phone book compellingly. ( I know next to nothing about flying or pilots, or landing etc.)

[@marvinbone1379]

​@chromolitho me, too, chromo. Not knowing aviation-speak, I couldn't figure out my fascination with this guy's channel. I think with me...I have a fascination with geography and weather, and I am intrigued by these young pilots' diverse histories. Hoover seems very compassionate about these people who bravely choose to fly in the air, in a machine. And he never judges their decisions. He just brings it all, into the methodology of what went wrong.

[@TBass727]

This debrief was a hard one to listen to. I almost never comment on anything either, but this one is different. I learned to fly at that airport in the early 80’s (really busy then) and was a controller in Houston for several years over two different time periods. One thing that stands out from my experience there is that it seems like the tower didn’t consider reaching out to approach and explaining what was going on, and asking them for a “big hole” between two arrivals for this pilot. From there, literally spoon feed her specific instructions (headings and suggested altitudes), as it was obvious she was having trouble with ground/runway orientation. And by all means, take runway 35 out of the equation! Based on the type of aircraft, the wind, and how she’s performing, I can’t understand why they even thought of that runway! I was a big advocate of controllers at least getting the PPL during my years in the FAA, as accidents like this don’t have to happen. This debrief made me super sad, as I could see all the moving parts from both sides, and there were so many places the “stop this and restart” button could have been pressed. Many pilots already know this, but I feel compelled to say it; most controllers are NOT pilots and have no clue of what goes on in the cockpit. As you’re responsible for your aircraft, please be bold enough to speak up in the name of safety…your life may depend on it!

[@amieres]

Good comment!

[@BetaBuxDelux]

Yep, I’ve lost a lot of empathy but this one is sad. 😔 And to your point, speak up in the name of safety especially if you have passengers. 😔

[@tomriley5790]

35 was more into the wind, 4 had a 15kt crosswind, pretty sure that was why they were putting her on it and she was on 35 originially and seemed to want it, the chopping and changing of runways was a big factor in her confusion and loss of SA.

[@TBass727]

@tomriley5790, actually runway 4 was more into the wind. Runway 35 gave her a direct crosswind with gusts (90 degrees + or - off her right side). Runway 4 gave her a less severe crosswind component.

[@Erickpicapiedra]

Wow 😢

[@_Astrovert]

35yr ATC here: I do think the controller contributed even though he thought he was trying to help. At some point he needed to stop trying to shoot the gap with the Cirrus and just give her a long easy final approach to a runway without 737's breathing down her neck. After 2 go arounds a low tight turn was not the best call.

[@secularsoldier2839]

U nailed it

[@jamesthornton9399]

I was getting dizy.

[@dannywilliams5192]

controller all the way plans just kept diverting and he was talking and not communicating well at all trying to juggle her and change her runway right turn ? that was the one that started it and it went down hill from there air force 10 aus fighter pilot 13 years

[@crutcher2244]

Don’t blame her mistake on the controller. If she was that uncomfortable she should have went to ksgr or said unable. Hobby isnt even that busy.

[@secularsoldier2839]

@@crutcher2244 its a team out there.... and there are real lives involved. Stop getting defensive.

[@robertdaniel3379]

I’m a retired air traffic controller and I feel the controllers did not recognize the difficulty the pilot was experiencing..multiple runway changes was overloading an inexperienced pilot and this should have alerted the controllers to give her the best runway for her and essentially treat her as an emergency

[@Goldenretriever-p9e]

Did you feel a very high level of stress on a regular basis when you were working? I have read that air traffic controller is one of the most stressful jobs a person can have. I have always wondered about this.

[@spencerallen2513]

Yes and no, Dana's voice did not indicate anything but confidence and she was actually a bit comical on the "third times the charm" with a bit of a giggle. Nothing out of her to indicate she was having an issue or was working beyond her experience level or comfort level. It ultimately falls on the pilots shoulders if they are uncomfortable and need to take a 'time out' to get their bearings and to take a moment or 10 to collect themselves so they can make proper judgement calls. She was trying to be the 'big girl pilot' in the plane with her male occupants and unfortunately outflew her skill set getting herself killed with her passengers.

[@robheb1355]

She just wasn’t a good pilot simple as that being a KZbinr and cute doesn’t make you a pilot, she just believed all her friends saying how great she was, go ahead find blame but at the end of the day she killed her father

[@fordtimelord7383]

@@robheb1355 I think you are confusing her with another lady flyer Jenny Blalock.

[@Mercuricmike]

@@spencerallen2513what a foolish mistake

[@alvarvillalongamarch3894]

As an airline pilot,I very much appreciate the kindness and the humanity of your reports,explaining and forgiving what is forgivable and explainable.Thanks for your hard work.Best regards from Spain.

[@RadioRich100]

Forgivable?? She killed her family because she didnt know what she was doing.

[@NicksStuff]

​@@RadioRich100 She killed her family because ATC kept giving her contradicting instructions and the stress overwhelmed her

[@RadioRich100]

@@NicksStuff Oh stop , what is she your sister? She fu..ced up because she was a bad pilot, end of story.

[@NicksStuff]

@@RadioRich100 I'm assuming you're not a pilot

[@RadioRich100]

@@NicksStuff I was and know a bad pilot when I see one. She was a fair weather pilot at best.

[@garyplewa9277]

When I was starting out as a low time pilot I went on a literal cross country flight from NJ to southern CA in my 1946 North American Navion. I had a planned fuel stop at Yuma Marine Corps Air Station/Yuma International Airport in Yuma, AZ. The milirary controller gave me a vector and landing clearance that had me too high for a normalized approach. I tried to slide slip and S turn as best I could to lose altitude and wound up getting the contoller flustered a bit with my path on their radar. I managed to land but was quite shaken by the experience. When I arrived at my destination in Imperial Valley CA and met with a few friends, one of which was a retired United Airlines captain, I told them about my landing in Yuma. The United captain told me there is a simple way to handle situations like this and he said "repeat after me - Unable". What? Yes, if a controller tells you to do something that from your perspective is either unsafe or impossible simply respond "Unable". I guess as a relatively low time pilot I didn't realize I could say that, considering whatever ATC said was irrefutable. I've since learned and have come to realize that not many controllers are pilots themselves and aren't used to small aircraft capabilities. This accident was tragic because the young lady didn't know what she didn't know and tried to be compliant when she should have exercised command authority and pushed back on the tower controllers unrealistic orders.

[@ImpactWench]

Women are trained all their lives that giving a straight-forward "no" as an answer only gets them into trouble.

[@Vaginaninja]

Tldr

[@TheApacheTrail]

Literal

[@CMDRSweeper]

The good thing is, the infamous Hudson landing, Sully did reply to the controller with the same phrase "Unable"

[@RaysDad]

I've had similar experiences with controllers when landing my Navion. The controller sees me approaching the airport at 140-150 mph and sequences me in, but the Navion's max for gear and flap extension is 100 mph, and final approach speed is 70 mph. So I slow down and ruin the controller's tight sequencing, with planes that land much faster bearing down on me.

[@cot5thorchid551]

Most people don't realize a landing and take off procedure is very mentally challenging and a go around, drains you. After a long flight you're tired, on top of it all, having a controller talking with you as you're trying to fly is the icing on the cake for a disaster. At least the 737's have a pilot and a co-pilot that can have long conversations with the tower.

[@giggiddy]

One of the very few channels that will point out pilot mistakes in a real way. Thats the only way to learn. Thank you.

[@dicksonfranssen]

Agreed. I'd rather learn from human behavior than watch an engine explode. At 67 I still have my night vision and enjoy driving fast but learned my limits 45 years ago after I cracked my third motorcycle helmet.

[@marcdraco2189]

Damn straight!

[@fakshen1973]

@@dicksonfranssen I spun out a car with the windows down at age 17. I took a corner way too fast. Luckily there was nothing but desert on the outside of that corner so it was simply a scary skid. Being nothing but dirt and the windows down... made sure that I didn't forget that lesson when I had to clean out me and the car from the nice layer of sand covering everything.

[@GrogHambone]

Thats because Hoover here is as real a pilot as it gets.

[@divinecommerce3912]

To All Ladies- we are programmed to be AGREEABLE and not self protective. She kept saying yes instead of demanding he be more clear…. And she let him RUSH her instead of saying “I need more time to think all the details through, I’ll go around and let them go ahead of me” 🔥💀🔥

[@FatsMuffinEater]

So confusing, I don't even know which runway I'm supposed to land on now, and I'm not in a plane.

[@swanseamale47]

My thoughts exactly!

[@bradleyd6000]

Exactly!

[@AustralianOpalRocks]

Runway 435

[@653j521]

A pilot who is confused should ask ATC, as stated in the video.

[@distantlight4527]

Agree. I think sometimes controllers assume everyone knows these airports like the back of their hands, like they themselves do. If you're not from one of these big airports with a stack of crossing runways, this could get super confusing. Ack that its the pilots responsibility to be familiar with these things, but I think the controllers perhaps could have seen that she was struggling a bit and just slowed things down and really created a simple approach with long vectors to final for her.

[@navid2478]

It truly was very tragic. I patrolled that area & secured the accident scene. Aircraft crashed in a Ace Hardware parking lot.

[@rethablair6902]

😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

[@ericvadekro8334]

I found her very collected in her comms….. very sad …. She was just overwhelmed by the situation

[@jetdriverp]

I would argue she was overwhelmed by some of the most pathetic controlling I have ever witnessed.

[@ericvadekro8334]

@@jetdriverp so much information…. So many changes in runway landing clearances …. And calling 30 degrees left heading 30 is a big mistake

[@PoolsideData]

I agree -- that 'sound of confidence' may have led the controllers to believe she was a better pilot than she really was"

[@jimkirkendall2483]

A situation she put herself in.

[@user-is6de8pp7k]

@@jimkirkendall2483 and her loved ones. 😞

[@bertg.6056]

This episode should be added to the curriculum of controller's schools. Exactly how NOT to vector a private plane.

[@DemolitionManDemolishes]

I know what you mean, but Im not sure if that's right. This is class B, it was her job to "fit in". I wish she'd just went to a different airport after they kept reshuffling her the first few times.

[@skipperclinton1087]

​@@DemolitionManDemolishesPersonally IMO she should have just thrown in the towel and headed for another airport and some airspace. Hoov has said navigate. There were too many moving parts, Midway through the landing sequences.

[@bjarkik128]

Had this as a case study in my APS MCC couple of months ago

[@VictoryAviation]

@@DemolitionManDemolishesIt’s not her job to “fit in”. It’s the ATC’s job to sequence aircraft safety and it’s her job as a pilot to listen to the instructions and determine whether she can safely execute the given instructions. She probably needed more experience at busy airports before trying to tackle a busier airport like this on her own. However, ATC gave very confusing instructions and Hoover was completely correct by saying that those last directions given were far too lengthy and complex for a pilot in a critical phase of flight, having just started her go around. I’m sure that controller was doing his best to help her and sequence her in. But by using lengthy phrases and choosing words like tight and low, it put pressure on the inexperienced and more importantly non-confident pilot, to comply with keeping the aircraft low and making steep turns. Personally I fly pipeline just about every day. I have over 1000 hours of experience flying low and tight to the ground. It doesn’t bother me in the least and I’ve never had a close call because I was in a tight turn a hundred feet off the deck. But that kind of flying is done by an extremely small portion of pilots. In other words it’s rare for a pilot to have that niche type of experience. So when you instruct a pilot to keep it low and tight, they need to realize they are asking a vast majority of pilots to fly outside their experience level. Then add in that she was struggling to do normal things like, land, on top of that, and it’s a recipe for disaster.

[@AustralianOpalRocks]

@@bertg.6056 I think all pilots should watch everything from Hoover, Petter's Mentor Pilot, and Kellsey's 74Gear. It's all invaluable.

[@Mostopinionatedmanofalltime]

Dana had such a sweet and soothing voice. So sad for all of them. 😢😢

[@JohnnyDanger36963]

until she screams at you.

[@RadioRich100]

How do you think she got her license? She just charmed the examiner. This is what happens with tampon pilots.

[@Mostopinionatedmanofalltime]

@@RadioRich100 Man, that’s kinda harsh.😞

[@Moluccan56]

@@RadioRich100Not where Iive.

[@johnsmith-ug5tp]

Incompetent and she murdered two innocent people! Destroyed an innocent person's car and broke her father's heart with his girl power fantasy world bleep.

[@somestuffithoughtyoumightl6985]

Something that struck me immediately was Dana’s calm and controlled communication style. I agree that the controllers could have lightened her load, but they may have had a false sense of her capabilities due to her calm demeanor. I’m by no means faulting her for this; it’s quite impressive. Just that the controllers don’t know her experience level and given her decision to enter a high density airspace, coupled with the apparent way she was handling all the changes, they likely thought she was okay with the situation. Missing the downwind heading and not having the situational awareness to compensate for crosswind might have clued them in, especially after three attempts, but hindsight is always easier. She could have diverted, or if you get really scared, don’t be afraid to declare an emergency. Moral of the story; never let pride cost you your life. So sorry for this tragic loss.

[@cherylbusch6236]

I agree-her voice gives a false sense of TOTAL confidence. Every time the ATC gives her a directive, she sounds as if it is NO PROBLEM to follow through. It only stands to reason that if the ATC ultimately didn’t “know where she was”--neither did she. I know nothing about flying, but as a woman, there were several times, as a friend, I would have said: “Hey, Girl, you sure you, GOT THIS?! Obviously, she didn’t…. Very sad.

[@dextermorgan1]

Hoover, I'm a restaurant server with a love for Aviation(though I hate flying) I was talking to one of my customers the other day about his shirt which was an Aviation and medic company. I asked him about it and we got on the topic of the Swiss Cheese model, density altitude and you! It's a small world! We both love your channel. He left me a good tip, too. Thanks for what you do. 😊

[@behindthespotlight7983]

The Swiss cheese model can be applied to everything from job performance to relationships

[@sarahalbers5555]

For real ​@@behindthespotlight7983

[@blaster-zy7xx]

@@behindthespotlight7983 What is the Swiss cheese model?

[@johnlucas6683]

​@@blaster-zy7xxIt's the image of a slice of swiss chees, square thin slice of cheese with random holes on it. Better to search it on the internet, Pilot Debrief usually shows it on his vids. Tragedies or accidents happen when every condition for it to happen aligns. In the swiss cheese, these are the holes that the conditions have to pass through in every slice. There shouldn't be a single line of hole for the unfortunate circumstances to pass through to actually occur. Basically, every slice is supposedly a barrier/checklist to prevent those bad conditions from passing through and making the problem/tragedy a reality event.

[@mowtivatedmechanic1172]

@@behindthespotlight7983I’m interested to hear your perspective regarding the Swiss cheese model and relationships. (Genuine curiosity)

[@specialkay4329]

A childhood friend of mine used to run away often. Where'd he go? To the airport. Like you Sir, he enlisted in the USAF and became a pilot. Later he flew many years for UPS, from South America to Florida. He eventually purchased a small plane and began assisting his Son in learning to fly. They took off from Florida and I believe ran into weather. Both perished. Rest Easy Capt. Duane Moorer and Duane Moorer Jr.

[@loca8048]

Man this is sad - as much as the pilot was way out of her skill space, the controller did her no favours. All my sympathies to family and friends. Loss hurts.

[@Bruce_LeRoyy]

How is it the Tower's fault? she had no experience in that environment smh.....

[@stephen1137]

@@Bruce_LeRoyy Ref: @johnbell374 As a former controller, this clown makes us all look bad. I’ve never heard such nonsense from a qualified controller.

[@maxmann-td4hn]

​@@Bruce_LeRoyydid you not listen to this? SMH

[@ReallyBigBadAndy76]

@@Bruce_LeRoyy The third time you change the runway on a private pilot, and you can hear the increasing agitation in her voice is not the time to tell her to make a tight left at low altitude, and then keep jabbering at her about your future plans. That's not in the manual.

[@777Maranatha]

@@stephen1137

[@arnaudt3935]

It is heartbreaking how she tried her best and was even excusing herself, the controllers are changing the plan all the way. Sad situation. Thank you for your high quality debrief's !

[@madezra64]

This so much! While Dana definitely wasn't prepared for this, the controllers should not have been constantly trying to squeeze her in. The fact she stayed calm and polite and tried her best just sucks so much. I do feel for the controllers too though. Flat out tragic accident all around for everyone.

[@arnaudt3935]

@@madezra64 Yes exactly, everyone tries his best, I don't blame controllers either.

[@crissd8283]

Dana caused this. She entered the downwind for runway 04 instead of 35 so the controller rightfully though she was in a right pattern for 04. She also failed to extend downwind to actually loose altitude. While the controller was doing too much talking, the first priority is to fly the plane.

[@ducksoff7236]

@@crissd8283 That wasn't the point of his comment. He didn't say anything about anyone's fault. Just that she was trying. What a prick......

[@jimkirkendall2483]

This is ALL on her. She was in over her head and never should have selected Hobby as her destination.

[@RobbieCole-4PPG]

This is so sad. I am a Southwest captain, based at HOU. I’m also a former Cirrus owner (SR-22 for 12 years). Things can get intense at HOU, but this should not have happened. They spooked that lady. I still feel terrible about it, even though I wasn’t involved.

[@Andy-it2mi]

Said from a less experienced pilot then you, I completely agree and the controller should have recognized this and amended his communication to remove her from the envirionment, allow her to calm down, and gotten her back in to an easier approach without any confusion.

[@2vintage68]

Agree. This was terrible.

[@theonlywoody2shoes]

I’m just a PPL that flys both in the US and U.K. All of my instructors on both sides of the “pond” always remind me that a response of unable or negative are perfectly acceptable any time. Likewise, a response of standby does not mean that a controller will abandon me, it just means they will keep vectoring me until I accept or decline their request - remembering it just a request as I have the final say in any command decision during that flight. My personal crosswind limits can often be far less than what the POH says; my personal currency and familiarity with a particular aircraft will impact that decision. I hope that I remember all of this if ever I find myself under (self imposed) pressure at a busy airport.

[@concettaworkman5895]

My problem with this, is that she may have not felt that, "unable, or negative," was in her sights at the time. She put too much trust in the controller, she was overconfident, and stressed to do the landing, hoping for the proper guidance, and she got distracted. But, all we can do is speculate. It was her flaps.

[@BlackWidow00741]

​@concettaworkman5895 I agree with you. She sounded very young and trying to please the controller rather than admit defeat. Sadly she was in over her head and that's why the controller went on longer than normal. He sincerely was trying to help her.

[@dutchr4zor]

@@BlackWidow00741 She was 46 and has 300 hours on type..

[@bluemoon5662]

@@concettaworkman5895 I also get the feeling she didn't want to appear "incompetent" to her passengers by giving up and asking for another close-by not-so-busy airport.

[@sylv_ain]

People don’t realize how confusing those giant airports are, seen from 1500ft In a single engine piston and single pilot operation.

[@alk672]

yup, especially with weird angles between runways. I messed up at Moses Lake once, landed on a taxiway prior to the threshold. It's super hard to even figure out which runway is which by just looking at them.

[@larscp]

@@alk672 More training is required

[@BrendanGrainger]

So sad, but another excellent debrief thank you. Great advice for using "standby" and "unable" when needed.

[@goneflying140]

This one is just so sad. I get flustered with ATC, so I know exactly how she felt. I have a Cherokee140, and the controller was saying Warrior with my callsign, so I wasn't answering back. He was talking so fast I didn't hear my tail number with the Warrior prefix. He got super pissed at me and finally said loudly and slowly Warrior 571, can you hear me? The crazy thing is that there was a Piper Warrior in the area he was also talking to, so I thought he was calling them. I then said Yes, Cherokee 571 can hear you. That was my last time in class B.

[@KimWentworth-y8e]

It's also terrible flying in Charlie also. I avoid at all costs. Will fly to a different airport or change plans. Imagine trying to find a place to park your aircraft at a Bravo. At a Charlie just plan on taking 30 minutes to taxi. Nope, not for me.

[@Annapolisbluesfan]

My primary was in a Warrior, and controllers always called me a Cherokee. Regional expectations?

[@Good-DaySunshine]

Why do they talk so fast? Is it a contest to see who can talk fastest? And I personally wouldn't be able to handle that.

[@marinegunner7481]

@@goneflying140 Yah. In fact, you should consider finding another hobby. In today’s crowded airspace, being able to effectively communicate with controllers is no longer a luxury or something only for airline pilots. It’s part of safe flying today. I recommend that you take a refresher course with a CFII at a busy controlled airport. Force yourself. Learn the rules. Learn to talk. Learn to listen. Learn to always maintain YOUR responsibility to FLY THE PLANE no matter what. These skills can save your life. Perhaps more importantly it can save someone else’s life.

[@iotolaofrocknrolla2795]

Why is everybody so afraid of ATC??You should’ve replied back and said my call sign is not “warrior“… why didn’t you correct him? Your life is in his hands, make sure he’s doing his job right or correct him. Then report him to the FAA for mis identifying you. He could’ve killed you.

[@Gds1106]

Everything I know I’ve learned from this channel, and I don’t fly planes I am just addicted to these Pilot Debriefs and how they are broken down so that even I can understand what went wrong. This was so heartbreaking and a great lesson you can apply to everything in life.

[@quickpstuts412]

Same. Goes to show how well Hoover debriefs these events. Very fascinating. Just found this channel and I'm hooked.

[@deepg7084]

I found this channel because I had a bucket list dream of getting my PPL. This channel talked me out of it lol. When you see pilots on this channel with tens of thousands of hours succumb to a mistake, it makes you realize you can't have an off day up in the skies. It's an unforgiving hobby/career.

[@differenttakethanmost]

Amazing how much there is to learn and know 😳😱 And a shit-ton of math 😝 🤯😶‍🌫️ holy cats

[@twisterwiper]

There is something general to learn from these debriefs which applies to a lot of other situations as well. Communication, situational awareness and problem solving skills are universally applicable.

[@jpad470]

I like these as well for some reason (have been watching air disasters as well) and am not a pilot either.

[@SportCoachBenson]

Complete appreciation for this commentary to avoid it happening to someone else. I don't fly but play in outdoor places and similar things happen that have preventable course of action. Long ago I learned that "an average of 7 errors happen before a plane crashes" and use this mindset in the outdoors whether I'm on my feet, on wheels, in the air or on water.

[@TexDrinkwater]

As a Houstonian, I remember this all too well, and remember thinking at the time that she was overwhelmed with all the challenges of landing at Hobby. HOU is the closest airport to the medical center, but any of the other nearby airports would have made the trip much less stressful.

[@jglee6721]

When I first moved here, I drove and I came to Sugarland and learned that there is a little airport. Not busy like Hobby. That's the big boy airport. It's not that much further for any medical center from SL.

[@kingforaday8725]

@@jglee6721 Yeah. And how much time did all the aborted attempts take up.

[@JamieTransNyc]

She should have landed at Ellington. It would be only about another 15 minutes by car to the medical center.

[@lenniecarter2998]

2:50 ​@@jglee6721

[@gawebm]

I've been flying for 30 years but there is no way I'm landing here. So may other airports nearby without the complications of this complex airspace.

[@Firewalker688]

I have only been in the bravo one time in a 172 and it was pretty nerve racking.

[@Everything817]

To hear seasoned pilots saying this makes me wonder why someone with so little experience would try.

[@neerajnongmaithem392]

​@@Everything817 well that's why they are inexperienced, she never knew that it was going to be this hard. If she was experienced she would have gone to a different airport. But that sad part is to know about you gotta be experienced, it's an endless loop. People learn from mistakes but sometimes you don't get a second chance

[@RadioRich100]

If your any kind of pilot it shouldnt have been a problem. How about she was a bad pilot? All women pilots are bad.

[@mohitsihag1]

​@@Everything817As the narrator said, she didn't know that she didn't know

[@billspindler4937]

The more of these I watch, the more I realize exactly how complicated flying is. I will stick to my car and center console boat. Great job debriefing these !

[@easttexan2933]

Having lived in Houston, and surrounding close proximity to Houston for most of my life, I'm quite sure she picked Hobby due to its close location to the medical center. Sugarland, as you noted, and LaPorte is another not that far away from the medical center. You called it right on both accts: her lack of experience and the controller not recognizing when a pilot is in trouble. All he had to do was tell her climb back to 1600', fly the runway heading and hand her off to approach again, like you said. So tragic. And so needless.

[@jimkirkendall2483]

I'm sure Houston traffic factored into her decision, too,. She just didn't have any business going in there.

[@easttexan2933]

@@jimkirkendall2483 I was employed by Cruise Aviation at Hobby in 1969 in aircraft sales (Cessna dealership). Traffic then was practically nothing compared to now. So few regs. Talked to the tower, then ground after landing. That was it. It was great !!

[@ajayray4408]

I see LaPorte has a runway 12, which would have reduced the crosswind component and eliminated the tailwind.

[@benjigault9043]

She could have landed at Ellington Field, its very close to Hobby. KEFD.

[@easttexan2933]

@@benjigault9043 all good choices. Just didn't have the experience to fly into that situation. Gethereitis strikes again. Very sad.

[@jimschnurr3512]

Pilot has final discretion. Stand your ground.

[@dougmacmillan1712]

I used to fly lots of oblique aerial photography jobs back in the '80s. My favorite pilot was Francine. She was great, but still didn't have a lot of commercial time under her belt. We came back from a job and approach vectored her to a runway that would have crosswinds 18-20 and we were in a 172. She did a great job of crabbing and we did a textbook crosswind landing even though Francine verbalized to me she did not have a lot of crosswind landings experience. When we checked in with the FBO, a father-son operation and the son was a high school buddy, the son reminded Francine she has the final decision and could have refused to land on that runway, especially when another was available. Francine went on to get a gig as a corporate pilot and had a successful career.

[@percyfaith11]

Easy to say but takes time to internalize. That comes with experience, something Dana did not have.

[@HalkerVeil]

@@percyfaith11 So she shouldn't have been flying? Is that how you get experience? No. Clearly it's the towers fault.

[@percyfaith11]

@@HalkerVeil she should have been flying with someone with more experience until she got comfortable in that environment. Clearly she was at least partially at fault for the accident.

[@HalkerVeil]

@@percyfaith11 It's interesting how people point out someone is not experienced and that is the problem, when the very nature of not being experienced means they don't know the experience to know this. The sophism in this industry is getting out of control.

[@bentleyblower]

Excellent report Hoover, which I found most instructive and I totally agree with all your assessments of this tragic accident.

[@Peter-gi3re]

I am not a Pilot but since I started watching channels like this the thoughts of flying in a small GA aircraft scares the hell out of me. Landing a small plane like this at a busy commercial airport seems like trying to cross a busy 6 lane highway on a bicycle while blind folded with someone else giving you directions. It’s absolutely nuts. It is horrible that these 3 people lost their lives in a totally avoidable mishap.

[@アマ-p2l]

I didn't even expect that you can land on any airport given how busy they are. If I were to land at a busy airport I'd be hyper alert. The ones I'm thinking about would either struggle to accomodate you or larger planes would have to wait up which costs a lot of money. So I think the main takeaways are preparation and priorities. It causes a lot of issues if you hold up traffic at a large airport but you need to be able to ignore all that, even ignore ATC communication, focus on flying first. I think a better comparison is someone is telling you that you missed the exit, you look at the signs and the exit you missed and when you look back onto the road there might be obstacles right in front of you because you've spent to much time focusing on other things. I feel like I'd never lose focus when I'm piloting a vehicle in a sketchy situation, but when there's to much to watch out for and 10mph flying speed mean the difference between life and death that seems scary as hell for sure. Forgetting which button de-ices your plane or barely going below the stalling speed seems dangerous.

[@pb3616]

Peter, the fundamental fairness of the aviation system is that there is no favoritism. An aircraft is an aircraft, and should be granted equal treatment. Put another way ........ just because a bunch of people throw money in a hat and use it to buy a big plane, paint a face on the tail and say "Here we are!" should that plane be given priority over other aircraft? No. First come first served. In this case, she was bounced between two different controllers, having her clearance changed, and that would tire any pilot. But letting the plane get so slow is just unforgivable. The controllers had asked for best speed, not to go slow. One controller tells her there is no traffic this time, then immediately another tells he that there is a 737 4 miles out. That was ridiculous. I'm a high time pilot and I have no problem flying into Bravo airspace. I like the vectors and positive control -- unfortunately she had little experience, would have been exasperated by this point, let herself get slow and the result was awful. I was flying from Vancouver to Calgary in a light twin and the enroute controller gave me a heading change off my flight path that would have taken me into a storm cloud over terrain due to jet traffic behind me, and I declined his clearance. That put him in a tizzy. I advised the controller that he was vectoring me into heavy weather and that I'm an airplane too. A supervisor came on and repeated the diversion and I repeated by decline due to heavy weather over terrain (the aircraft had no deice system) and the footnote that I'm an airplane too. He did what he should have done in the first place - had the jet climb over the top of me. Air traffic control is supposed to provide two things -- separation from other aircraft and separation from terrain. But many controllers neglect their training. They aren't God, and the pilot must make a decision to accept or decline a clearance.

[@artbyrobot1]

wow great analogy this is nuts!

[@eb-pe8xg]

Sugar Land isn't the only airport she could have landed at. Ellington is much closer, isn't busy and has space for private aircraft.

[@sandiegodavid622]

You can tell with her voice that she was becoming overloaded… She should have climbed and cleared at that point. You have to know your limitations and stay with them. RIP

[@davidp2888]

I’ve only been watching your channel for about a year but I’ve learned so much from you.

[@someotherdude]

Learned things such as: GA is too dangerous and unforgiving to be worthwhile and enjoyable!

[@bobwilson758]

@@someotherdudeunless rural flying / away from congested bullshet ! The point here is just to Have fun ! Inter city flying is no fun - Forget about it ! Let the ifr gang have at it - their game !

[@luckylass5444]

Hoover, I am a pilot mom. I have my son watch your videos. Thank you for the work you do.

[@danielhall-wl4ql]

Even if God gave me wings I'm so afraid of heights id still be just walking around .nightmare fuel for me just to watch these , have no clue why I do really . be careful is all I got !

[@Eric1SanDiego1]

@@danielhall-wl4ql I met a woman who used to have an intense fear of flying. Full-on aviophobia. It distressed her because she wanted to travel the country to visit her friends. So she decided to do something about her phobia. She came up with an ingenious plan. She booked a flight, took some special classes, boarded the aircraft, and was NOT onboard when the plane landed. You read that correctly. The first flight she ever took in her life was to go skydiving. She had to get another flight after that to experience what it was like to land. Phobia cured and that woman is a BADASS.

[@Eric1SanDiego1]

Based upon what you wrote, I don't think I'd call you a pilot mom. I'd call you a GREAT mom.

[@AlkisGD]

After only watching 2 videos, I'd be terrified if anyone I know was a pilot. I know the stats, but binging this content completely destroys your ability to depend on the availability heuristic to judge the odds of something bad happening. And two of my best friends are looking to buy motorcyles ... 😖

[@coderlicious6565]

This happened on June 9, 2016. for anyone curious.

[@jimw1615]

I learned to fly in the San Francisco Bay Area at Hayward Air Terminal and San Jose International Airport operating in, around and under the "then" TCA's. I didn't realize how valuable that environment was to my flight training until I flew with my uncle (also a Private Pilot) who had only flown into and out of Unicom airports in Colorado and never any controlled airports.

[@behindthespotlight7983]

All of my private GA plane experience is out of Hayward, Fremont and San Jose. But that was in the 1980’s. Like pretty much everything else a fellow can consider things were “just better” back then. Heck we used to do crazy acrobatics a few miles outside Fremont out over the salt flats or over the Bay marshes

[@royharper9472]

Hayward Airport that brings back memories. My band rehearsed down the street on Clawiter. Metallica also rehearsed there.

[@MotoVloggedOUT]

You mean CTAF, not Unicom. Checkout the recent southwest flight that departed on a closed runway while on UNICOM…… 🙄 UNICOM and CTAF are not always the same!

[@packrat76]

So did something happen???

[@jimw1615]

@@packrat76 Read it again. This time read it slowly.

[@msromike123]

I remember my instructor taking me VFR into SAT for a couple of touch and goes. It was a good lesson and helped me decide to avoid (or at least think twice) about VFR operations with IFR mixed aircraft types in the future.

[@theroot2010]

Very sorry to hear what happened to such a young lady. Hope someone will learn from her mistakes.

[@Brutaga]

Hearing her voice and knowing the tragedy that is about to unfold … truly heartbreaking 💔

[@judybevers5557]

😢 🦫

[@smackhead]

She's an idiot that should have known her limitations. Instead she killed people - it could have been much worse. "Emotions" don't hold in a logical field. She was overconfident and stuff up - to quote an officer and a gentleman "My grandmother wants to fly jets"

[@stevekirk8546]

Thanks Hoover there is so much to take away from this sad story. As ever you explain things clearly without undue emotion and with great sensitivity.

[@jamiereifert2824]

I remember driving to work seeing this. Crashed at a hardware store probably less than 50 ft from a propane tank. Sad story for sure! Especially due to circumstances why they were flying in. Condolences to the family

[@johnbell374]

As a former controller, this clown makes us all look bad. I’ve never heard such nonsense from a qualified controller.

[@raider61x]

@@wilson4328 how did you come to that conclusion?

[@rogerallen6644]

@@johnbell374 seems like he was so used to pumping jets through the pattern he didn’t know what to do with a little puddle jumper. I’m guessing that’s a hole in the training, but you’d know more about that. Your point is well taken.

[@DaedricFaZe]

@@wilson4328 You can just say you're racist, its easier that way. This was almost 10 years ago before DEI was even a thing

[@mikefreauf6192]

I was thinking the same thing.

[@schwamforfreedom]

@@raider61x Feel like a nice, comfortable room temperature IQ behind that conclusion.

[@csadler]

I'm not even a pilot but I take the 'aviate navigate communicate' to mean 'get myself under control, think about my next actions, then communicate'. It's a life lesson for me now.

[@Joselyn_497]

Going through my training, something everyone told me continues to stand out. “Above all else, fly the damn plane.” I think everyone needs that advice in their life

[@christheother9088]

Not just a list, each is a prerequisite for the next.

[@gfranks5080]

​@Joselyn_497 if I ever get a ppl, I'm gonna make sure that quote is written and visible in my field of vision in any aircraft I fly, like on the dash

[@rossk4864]

This is why I thoroughly enjoy Hoover's accident analyses. I saw another video analysis of this accident on a different channel, but it didn't bring out Dana's flap retraction speeds, which may have been a key factor. I made this identical mistake as a student pilot, practicing go-arounds, and, up to that point, no one had educated me on complete go-around procedure. I retracted the flaps too rapidly and at too low of speed but fortunately had enough altitude to lower the nose and keep the plane flying. The stall and the instructor's admonishment are indelibly etched in my consciousness.

[@robinj.9329]

I was "Trained up" nearly 50 years ago. And, due to rising cost, haven't been an active Pilot for 20 years. BUT ....... Even I know that you do not want to be "Sandwiched" between two giant Airliners at a HUGE and very active Airport like this! 😢😢😢

[@johnwalenski3475]

very true, especially if you are being chased by one and tailgating another. Not to mention wingtip vortices in a high crosswind almost never has a good ending.

[@thisisus.504]

Heartbreaking. Absolutely heartbreaking. No winners here.

[@PatrickPierceBateman]

We're the winners because it provided us with 20 minutes of entertainment.

[@thomasryan2679]

As a police officer, I was dispatched to a disturbance at an airport. It involved a "chief pilot" being fired. This is uncommon because pilots are sharp people and don't get into disputes needing police response. Management said he was terminated for reckless and dangerous behavior over what he taught his students. The pilot told me aircraft rudders were unnecessary equipment. They're in aircraft because of conspiracies between the FAA and aircraft manufacturers. He taught his students not to use them. As he was leaving, I noticed he had flyers taped on his car offering inexpensive-flying instruction. His car also appeared to be owned by a homeless person. It was beat-up and cluttered with junk. Three weeks later he banked, crashed, and killed himself in NJ. It was the type of crash which would've been prevented by rudder usage. I can only imagine some student taking flying lessons from that buffoon to save a few dollars instead of using a more-expensive, flight school.

[@Stumpchunkman226]

Wow, I never thought about the fact that the controller was talking her ear off when she was executing the go-around. As a pilot, that would have been extremely nerve wracking. Especially considering the stress she was already under. Great take, Hoover.

[@Catpanl]

With that many hours a pilot should have the basics down in muscle memory. Stalls and flying the pattern are the main exercises done by students.

[@ourlifeinwyoming4654]

Why did she have to land there? I wish she would've diverted to an easier airspace, etc. After that many attempts - if you have enough gas, go somewhere else. If you're running out of gas, declare the emergency and get on the ground safely. This was hard to watch. Great analysis as usual Sir.

[@ChadDidNothingWrong]

there's a sort of tunnel vision we get, and it is very easy to develop for some ungodly reason

[@KimWentworth-y8e]

The winds are to strong for me and the pattern is to confusing. I would go to an easier airport. I tried landing on a runway one time with a Cross-wind of 18 knots. I was on approach and could not keep on the approach on the straight path to the runway. I said nope this it to much for me and a did a go around. Went around to the other runway took a breath and landed on the other runway. I found my limits of how much Cross-wind I can handle.

[@jimmydee2171]

Took the words right out of my mouth

[@ghislainegautreau1427]

@@ourlifeinwyoming4654 May be she was trying to please the guys inside the plane, like she did trying to please the controllers changing orders. Like many women do all there life from chilhood. Standing your ground can be seen as "being a Karen". No win.

[@ourlifeinwyoming4654]

@@ghislainegautreau1427 Excellent points. Thank you.

[@robcohen7678]

Have seen several videos about this incident but this has by far the most constructive and helpful commentary.

[@johndalzell904]

I got my private pilots licence flying the Grumman AA5A at Wellington International Airport, New Zealand. Beautiful, instantly responsive & stable aircraft. At the time light aircraft could use the runway as well as the turboprops and jets. Much less traffic than Houston I would say, and there was only one runway, but it could get busy on occasion. Wellington was a very windy place and sometimes there would be alarming windshear and/or strong gusty crosswinds. Listening to this sad accident, I remember how important it was to know the geography around the airport - you need landmarks to maintain your downwind and base legs regardless of crosswinds. Dana got everything thrown at her at once and after each failure to land her tension ratcheted up higher. She was telling herself "I have to do it this time" and that narrow focus blinded her to the danger of raising the flaps at far too low an airspeed. I don't blame anyone including the controllers. Dana's radio work suggested that she was apologetic but still in control. The primary lesson is to be bodily aware of your airspeed (and angle of attack) and not to retract flap outside the envelope. I was not a natural aviator but I had great teachers. They said you should feel in your body when the plane changes from fingertip control to a bit of sponginess to full on mushiness. I was drilled remorselessly on stall onset and recovery until even my dull a** could finally feel the wobbliness coming on and fix it unconsciously (including stalls in high speed, high bank angle turns). Maybe that remorseless stall training should be standard, particularly when stalls are still happening and causing accidents. The secondary lesson is how to safely correct a high altitude on approach, particularly with a slick aircraft like the Cirrus. They said the power throttle is the most reliable way to control descent. Pull the throttle back gradually and raise the nose safely & gently in synch to keep the descent stable & increase drag - remembering that they have drilled you on controls becoming squishy into the stall. Rest in peace the people who died. Are we training them enough?

[@davidjma7226]

I have seen grown men bawling their eyes out while landing at Wellington!!

[@pibervision]

This entire sequence was nerve racking. Poor thing was simply over her head. RIP

[@mtkoslowski]

I’m sorry but I disagree with your assessment. The fly in the ointment was that the controller was trying to ‘squeeze her in’ between commercial aircraft operating at higher speeds than her aircraft could. Listening to her communications she seemed calm and rational. The trouble was that other aircraft were causing her to become task saturated by the ever changing controller instructions. She was overwhelmed, but not of her own doing, and failed to pay attention to the speed and attitude of her aircraft.

[@Skinflaps_Meatslapper]

You're both right though. The majority of GA pilots would likely be just as overwhelmed by this sequence of events. She was in over her head because the controller put her there, and while a more experienced pilot would've questioned the controller or said they couldn't comply or aviate first, it's not a situation that a pilot should be put into regardless of experience. She was getting further and further behind the plane as a result of trying to comply with the unclear and changing instructions. It happens to everyone, and when you're pressured into doing something or you're getting confused/distracted, it's easy to forget simple things.

[@pibervision]

“Fly in the ointment” - love it. Reminds me of my pops. Thx 🙏

[@justposi]

@@mtkoslowski So what exactly are you disagreeing with here ?

[@mtkoslowski]

@@pibervision I’m old, what can I say? If I reminded you of your dad then I’m happy! 👍

[@JJReviews]

Everyone dogging on the air traffic controller, but when you're flying a group of people you are in charge of their safety and even though she was nice and polite and the radio, she obviously did not have the skills to be doing what she was doing.

[@ChadMcFarland_CanadaEHTeam]

This debrief was so tragic. As a student pilot, I actually learned in Class C airspace from day 1 so I know how important it is to be situationally aware and got a lot of practice being sent away to do holding patterns until things calmed down enough to be sequenced back in. That was honestly too much wind for a Cirrus. Almost a quartering tail wind and would have made landing very difficult. Control should have just given clear vectors to guide her exactly where he wanted her. There were times I got confused and asked for vectors and spoke up to say straight up that I was confused, request vectors for the approach. Tower was happy to do so and that allowed me to concentrate on aviating.

[@pdr5926]

She proved to be fully competent in understanding such a mess of ATC instructions. Unfortunately, in the process, she quit flying the airplane.

[@jhvorlicky]

Very simply put. She was so busy Navigating and Communicating that she forgot about the first bit... Aviate. Yes the tower was a bit of a jumble, but they ain't the ones flying. She was too submissive because she knew she was in over her head, was lacking confidence and focussed too much on trying to accept their instructions. Brain overload. Then she didn't have enough brain space left to realise she was losing it. Stalling was a complete surprise to her. Very sad. We can all learn from this. Know your limit and learn to recognise when you're getting close to it, and practice those go arounds so you can perform as soon as that happens. Better arrive late than never.

[@morganghetti]

If she was fully competent she wouldn't have tried to land at Hobby. She had no business going to that airport.

[@ferocious_r]

@@morganghetti What I wonder is, when you get your PPL, how severely will you be warned about class B by your instructor and/or the person giving you your final exam?

[@olasek7972]

@@ferocious_rmy instructor never uttered a word on the subject but it was pretty obvious to me (as my aviation knowledge progressed) that landing at class B makes zero sense, financially and everything else.

[@monilparikh5171]

she shouldnt have been a pilot..succumbed under pressure.

[@davidclark682]

Retired Navy flight surgeon (38 years). I’ve been the flight surgeon participating on numerous class A mishaps, all but one with fatalities. The one without fatalities was the ONLY one that did not involve human factors and was strictly mechanical. Love your concise reports.

[@lawrenceedger292]

Hoover: well done! Retired military controller here: when I was mixing slow movers with fast moving aircraft, I always tried to keep the slow mover close to the field and at a lower altitude to the ground. Then I’d vector the fast movers a bit farther out or above the slow mover. Never did I want a fast mover barreling down final closing rapidly on the slow mover. And even if that did happen the fast mover can go around because they weren’t number 1 for landing.

[@dwaynemcallister7231]

Good comment!

[@morganghetti]

I'm a FAA and formally an Air Force controller. Respectfully, you have no idea what it's like working at a busy FAA facility working air carriers. You can't always just extend the downwind in busy complex airspace. There is no comparison in the complexity and volume of traffic a higher level FAA works and the absolute busiest military base. The controller didn't go a good job here but she had no business trying to fly into this airport.

[@morganghetti]

​@@dwaynemcallister7231 it's not. It's an uninformed comment.

[@dwaynemcallister7231]

@@morganghetti Based on the outcome here I can't disagree, seems to me if she could have used a forward slip and just made the runway it could have worked out. Piloting skill needed to be higher but decision making should have put her at a smaller airport like Sugarland or similar.

[@darrens.4322]

Very well produced and presented presentation. Thank you. Tragic loss.

[@fireandrose1962]

As a therapist and a private pilot, I see evidence pointing to what we call clinically an "amygdala hijack." It's basically a form of panic and overwhelm in the amygdyla part of the brain that triggers a fight/flight/freeze response and that impairs cognitive and problem-solving functions in the pre-frontal cortex. The ability to aviate and navigate is degraded and mistakes start cascading along with stress and panic. I know because I've been there myself as a pilot. It's awful. Dana is communicating but she is becoming more disoriented and confused. Too many vectors and words did not help along with a Class B airport and very challenging surface winds. i wish she had just climbed out on a missed approach and returned to Approach Control for a more manageable sequencing or even a simpler airport.

[@strnglhld]

The question is, how do you get out of amygdala hijack?

[@Mark-jb9hx]

It is bad enough trying to land at a class B in a small aircraft, but then you have to taxi and find the FBO. Who in their right mind thinks this is a good idea to begin with?

[@lonzo61]

I recall this accident. AOPA Air Safety Institute did a crash study of this incident some years ago. Oh, I was so frustrated while watching the sequence of events play out on that video. This was so avoidable. Had it been me, I would never have flown into a Class B when there was a smaller airport right nearby. Not to play critic too much here, but so often my heart is torn open by seeing these often avoidable accidents.

[@joywiz3186]

I remember when this happened. I lived on Broadway at the time, and Broadway runs directly into Hobby Airport. The crash happened on Telephone Road. I remember wondering how in the hell did that happen and the fact that I was just at the Ace store where it happened the day before. Thank you for covering this story. RIP to the parties that lost their lives that day. 😢

[@EricCoop]

One thing we do in the surface Navy (I'm a retired SWO with almost 12 years of sea duty in my 20+ year career) is that we ALWAYS give a course. "Left standard rudder, steady on course zero-three-zero." We never tell a helmsman to come left or right x degrees. Isn't there a similar standardization with ATC? Get-there-itis is as much a problem in the maritime world as it is in the aviation world.

[@pb3616]

No. She misunderstood the clearance and his attempt was simple enough ....... it's not unusual for a controller to simply give an aircraft a heading that will keep that plane away from other traffic.

[@HughPlatt-g5u]

We so appreciate your thorough, professional debriefs, Hoover. We always learn from your expertise - thank you for sharing it!

[@georgev5766]

Man oh man. This was sad to hear. From a pilot who learnt to fly in south Florida here. When flying into a class B airport, have a plan A for what you think it’s gonna be the approach and active runway and have a plan B for the other likely scenario. When things get too hectic, then just ask the controller for vectors/headings and focus on flying the plane. She woulda been just fine by asking the controller “could you please gimme a heading the downwind on 35 or 4 (that last time)”. And it would been easier for the controller and her. Bc it woulda been an easy “fly heading 220 I’ll call the base”. Sad but that’s a fatal mistake.

[@JMillerJr76]

The controller kept bouncing her back and forth between runways, could she have just said that she wanted to stay on runway 35? I feel sticking to one plan would have been a better option.

[@Mistamannfour]

To answer your question, yes! All she needed to do was say the word, "UNABLE" when the controller tried to switch runways on her. As a pilot you are PIC or pilot in command, that means that you are solely responsible for the operation and safety of the flight! If, as PIC, you feel what the controller wants you to do something that is either unsafe or outside your ability or ability of the plane, you are not obligated to follow the controller's instruction. However, you need to say "UNABLE" to inform the controller of your inability to follow his/her last instruction.

[@Al-Storm]

One of the pilots responsibility is to communicate when you're uncomfortable. Controllers need to know when they're dealing with someone who lacks experience/confidence/know-how/etc.

[@danielleong1865]

She wanted runway 4, but was bounced back and forth with runway 35. The crosswind is too much for her skills, too.

[@tomriley5790]

@@danielleong1865 4 had more crosswind than 35.

[@davidvaughn7752]

Ultimately pilot error.

[@smicksmookety]

Yes, the controller added confusion, yes, the pilot wasn't qualified for such busy traffic, but the biggest and most obvious issue was her lack of adherence to go-around procedure.

[@addisontibe1979]

This a great Debrief, I subscribed to your channel. This will help me as a future flight instructor and my consistent drive to keep learning

[@hogster5935]

Sad. Pilots need to know when to get out of area and re-group.

[@stratocasterblue]

Thats what was thinking, I would have told the controller I am leaving houston airspace for now winds too high on 35 anyways try alternate airport or a later approach she had plenty of fuel

[@slowery43]

sad that you think it is in any way helpful to anyone to state the blatantly obvious as though you are some sort of expert on the matter.

[@stevedrake604]

@@slowery43 What did your comment contribute?

[@richqualls5157]

Sadly, all this could have been avoided by going to the nearby airport. She was not trained and experienced enough to fly in these situations.

[@bcgrittner]

Back when I flew around the Twin Cities area (currently I’m grounded- medical) MSP airport was in the process of restricting small aircraft. I have been told that MSP must legally allow small aircraft, but my instructors and friends have told me to stay clear of MSP. There are landing and parking fees. More importantly it’s best to not mix it up with the commercial jets. There are several satellite airports around the Twin Cities that are better suited for smaller aircraft.

[@OneSpeedGo]

Thank you Hoover. Sad but good to educate all.

[@87mini]

I remember back in 1975 when my British uncle came to visit US for the first time, and he was aghast that we allowed recreational and commercial aircraft to share the same airspace. He mentioned visibility, performance differences, and communication among other things. A couple of years later we saw PSA 182 go down into San Diego after midair with a Cessna, which burned his comments into my memory.

[@docdcarter9954]

I was there for this accident. It's forever burned in my memory, too. Very sad day and days that followed.

[@pb3616]

PSA 182 was PSA pilot error. There was a jump seat rider chatting with the captain, the co-pilot flying. So there were only two eyes looking where there should have been six. There is now a rule that there be no irrelevant conversation below 10,000 feet. It's called "Sterile cockpit". The Cessna had an instructor and a pilot flying doing instrument training, and they had been vectored by ATC --- they were doing exactly the right thing. The PSA practice was to do "expedited approaches" which would be to cancel IFR and be VFR and do a downwind, short base and short final, and this mixed them potentially with slower traffic. But PSA acknowledged having seen the traffic but were wrong, turned base and flew into the Cessna. Ugh!

[@bohenriksson2330]

I’m a recently retired airline guy. Making one go-around followed by a runway change is stressful enough. That this lady got in over her head is no mystery.

So many good people have loss their lives in these small plane crashes. Why I quit even trying to be a pilot. And many were experienced pilots. It’s just too unforgiving if you make a mistake. May they all rest in peace.

[@skyboy1956]

most of the risk in flying in under the pilot's control. The pilot can make it as safe or as dangerous as they want.

[@SuperfluousUser1781]

The video of this crash is on the internet and it’s brutal. Very difficult to watch as all the passengers were ejected on impact. So sad for those families.

[@behindthespotlight7983]

I recommend avoiding those super graphic videos as well as youtube channels who post the radio chatter right up to impact (the screams and cursing) It may only bother you a bit when watching or listening but they can create some serious nightmares down the road. That’s why I stick with Hoover, Blancolirio and Gryder.

[@richardcranium3579]

It was shot with a potato so it’s all a blur. The damage is tough but next to nothing visible. Nothing graphic at all.

[@604cuinkillah]

I'm subscribed. Great work. Rest in peace to the passengers. Very informative. Thank you

[@gev340]

She was so behind her plane… she was unable to manage clear decision… in this case you go far and level your aircraft and your mind

[@timduggan1461]

Agreed. Completely behind, not understanding.

[@AustralianOpalRocks]

I wonder what her fuel situation was, if she had an option to change airports.

[@staLkerhu]

I don't want to badmouth her, but she was probably too cool for that, especially with audience involved...

[@diggerlenny4836]

Feels like she flew into a pressure cooker. Some people cant handle that kind of situation on the ground in a car. Imagine being surrounded by big rig trucks and they all in a hurry to park and you start feeling like youre getting in the way. Id bet she was getting more and more stressed out and when that happens its harder to make good decisions. Feel real sorry for her and all involved. Should not of happened,hopefully this video will help someone else in the future Thanks for explaining it all like that👍

[@paulazemeckis7835]

@diggerlenny4836 good analogy.

[@acmekanik9135]

What I cant understand is that most people flying GA are doing it as a hobby or as a relaxation thing to be enjoyed. You arent a working pilot, its like driving your own car on a road trip so why place yourself in such a BS environment when there was an alternate very close by that has none of that. That I just dont get. Ok, if you are training to be a commercial pilot or you are already working and have to fly into those airports then I get that. To do it just because is not a good reason to put yourself into such a stressful environment. Very unfortunate. RIP to all involved.

[@diggerlenny4836]

@@acmekanik9135 yeah it doesnt really make sense if there is a nearby alternative that's less hectic. Sad

[@iant720]

Very much like taking your RV to a Truckstop, yes you can but is it worth pissing off truckers, getting side wiped by a trailer? Nope!

[@RemarkableSean]

Wow, thank you for the effort in this analysis/lesson. Extremely helpful.

[@PoolsideData]

I think learning to fly in and around a class B was the best part of my training. From day-1 the uniqueness / complexities / risks involved were made very real.

[@JSFGuy]

I do remember this when it happened all we had was the video and some radio traffic. Let's check it out.

[@pilot-debrief]

Always appreciate you being one of the first to show up in the comments!

[@leanderrowe2800]

Everytime there's an air tragedy, I always fear that those planes would crash onto buildings and homes.

[@staLkerhu]

Exactly my thoughts after discovering this channel and hearing these stories. I'm not in the USA, but if I would be there, then I would need to worry about dumbos crashing their planes on my head when I'm walking on a street, just because it is Monday?! 🤔🤔🤔 As I heard even getting a driver licence is not really that demanding in the USA, like anyone who has pulse can get it. If the same is true for airplanes, then I believe it is time to rethink a couple stuff there. I don't know if this is the case because of pressure from the citizens (be simple, relatively easy, fast and cheap to get), or you guys just have a lazy "I don't give a single F" mentality, and you are training drivers and pilots saying "you will get the very basics and then go and figure out the rest on your own". This is not just a small or medium OOF...

[@andrewmacdonald4833]

Just heart breaking...just goes to show how quickly things can change and unravel...really feel for the pilot and the passengers.

[@Breitman123]

Her continued acceptance of their direction, without fully knowing what they were asking of her and the aircraft is a huge indication of her lack of experience.

[@hcramer3641]

Besides declaring an emergency, most powerful word a pilot can say over the radio is, “UNABLE”

[@xjcrossx]

I knew immediately when I heard the callsign. Air Safety Institute covered this one and I hated how it happened. That controller probably feels horrible and he was just trying to help, albeit poorly. So sad. Awful video footage also. Edit: I wrote the comment at the start of the video and I had to add that you covered this situation so well. Great videos man, should have subscribed many videos ago. One thing you didn't mention though was that there were two controllers, and I'm not sure a lot of people would pick up on that as their voices were similar. The first guy was kind of being short with her and the second I think was trying to be more friendly and make up for that giving her clearer, but mistimed directions.

[@Prometheus_8706]

I have no doubt that this channel is saving lives. These events are horrible and tragic , but using them to prevent others and educate / remind people helps assure these deaths weren’t in vain. Every pilot and everyone of those amazing ATC ‘s should be subscribed to this channel and taking notes. Thank you for doing these !

[@jimmydulin928]

Yes, Hoover, this one should have been called by the adult in the room...whoever that might be. Someone should have suggested another airport. She is in a fast and slick airplane and never gets rid of enough potential energy of altitude to give herself a chance, considering her lack of confidence and therefore ability. As instructors we need not only train students for Class B but also for the tactical situation becoming fluid. Long runways should not be an excuse for learning how to use all the controls, including a dynamic throttle, to make things happen under various scenarios. Teaching the use of the go around until everything is somehow perfect leads to too many go around fatalities. We don't teach basic flying based on the principals covered effectively in Stick and Rudder. Integrated instruments is fine for transition to instruments, but sucks for contact flying. Working in between airliners is contact flying. I patrolled pipelines all around Class B airports at 200' AGL with a waiver. My low altitude gave me a lot more separation and options and the controllers were very good at working with innovative pilots. She didn't need to be at 200' but getting down to 500' on base would have helped a lot. High means slow transitions. She was in a situation that called for rapid transitions. Airline speed and glideslope is fixed. Small aircraft have to work around that.

[@PILOTCIRRUSASIA]

Cirrus easily loses energy especially the sr20

[@ianmangham4570]

Awesome job dude 👏 😊

[@dennisnbrown]

The last sentence is ridiculous.

[@New2Me170B]

Hey, I read your book. It helped me to focus on learning to really fly the plane and not get overly fixated on the FAA's training program catered to transitioning PPLs to Instrument to airlines etc. Your landing technique of apparent rate of closure is what finally had me nailing landings right on the spot at the slowest possible speed. It's really just a name given to the way bush pilots up here in Alaska manage to get themselves into the tight, rough, gnarly backcountry strips that they do.

[@jimmydulin928]

@@New2Me170B Wolfgang didn't go into a lot of technique detail, but his principles in Stick and Rudder guided me and encouraged me to be more specific.

[@JasonT850]

It is just crazy how easily your life can be snuffed out. One minute she is talking to the tower and the next she's gone.

[@tangolima4148]

Thank you for this video. You are adding safety to (general) aviation. Well done.

[@PaulHilliard-yl7fm]

Hey Hoover, Very good analysis, this is a typical case of how critical it is to be aware of the deadly "Low & Slow" situations that you will incur on a base to final or in this case cross wind to down wind, where she should of just flew a typical pattern practice go around. Just as she did in her initial pilot training. Always remember, the pilot in command has the right to refuse tower instructions, and ask for modification. I would of asked for runway 4 vice 35, and demanded to be coordinated as such due to wind direction!!! Keep up the good work Hoover, N552AT out....

[@golfergab]

Just started flying here , 10 hours in . This video is a very good insight on how things can go out of control when only listening for instructions. My instructor told me , if they tell you to drive the plane into the ground, what would you say back ? Sometimes it is not easy to make the judgement call that they are clueless, but once they changed the runway 4 times in 3 minutes, I guess she should’ve spoken up! What a fatality …

[@lawrencerenew8668]

Wow! That really is a heartbreak. That was fast paced for her.

[@brimopm]

I have 25,000hrs and all the ATC heading and runway changes would have confuse me, especially if the proper approach and airport briefings are conducted. She sounded so sweet and compliant, but this character trait tragically led to her demise. Simplify, simplify, simplify!

[@KLRMotorsports]

Approach controller here and pilot, great review, some good lessons here for ATC. Also, some of your assumptions and comments on ATC are not 100% accurate, however it is a bit of a mystery for pilots most of the time. Tragic accident. Good lessons learned for my profession and my hobby. Keep them coming!