Pilots heard on audio recording pleading with Boeing

American Airlines pilot union officials met with Boeing engineers in Dallas after the first 737 Max crash and pushed them to take more action in a heated conversation.

[@cathyshappell1148]

The Pilot's have the right to be angry, it's not just about their own lives but the lives they are responsible for, they take that seriously.

[@tomo0086]

Cathy Shappell Indeed. Boeing not only didn’t tell pilots, but not even the airlines about MCAS’ existence because they didn’t want to draw attention to it in order to gain more cha-ching cha-ching. And then they blame the pilots. It is a such a joke at this stage. Airbus is the way to go.z

[@jamezh2822]

@@tomo0086 the pilots are ABSOLUTELY AT FAULT

[@tomo0086]

James Harper 😂😂 it’s funny how Americans online still parrot that statement.

[@nickyjam5698]

Amen

[@lanceviacrucis5170]

I know they caused 2 crashes that caused hundreds of lives but who knows maybe boeing didn't know how powerful there system was and then when they were trying to find the problem the 2nd crash appeared Who knows.

[@FirstOfTheYear777]

“Unnecessary information”... you gotta be kidding 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@floex831]

Ryan F welcome to corporate America sponsored by our, for corporations president.

[@EthanMondy]

As far as I’m concerned when peoples lives are on the line... ALL information is necessary!!

[@karmathebrit7856]

Ryan F yeah what a joke. “Millions of miles and maybe encounter this once”. That is literally the thing pilots train for, that one time, that one emergency! The pure ignorance and arrogance.

[@aintplayinggames7086]

I heard that there is a way to override the system, but most pilots don`t know how. I don`t know if that is true, but I heard it on the radio.

[@aintplayinggames7086]

@@floex831 weak argument since all presidents deal with Boeing.

[@_multiverse_]

Yes, because as a pilot it's not important to know if my aircraft has a system that will nose down the aircraft without any input by the pilot. Wtf!

[@Theawatson10]

There is already a stick pusher installed that does basically the same thing.

[@_multiverse_]

@@Theawatson10 I think you're thinking of a stick shaker.

[@Theawatson10]

Sam no... there’s a stick shaker and if the stall develops enough there’s a stick pusher. That pushes the nose over automatically.

[@f3nd13y]

most large aircraft have a system that will nose down the aircraft without input by the pilot. its called a pusher..

[@f3nd13y]

@@Theawatson10 yes a pusher noses the aircraft down without user input exactly what watson was saying lol

[@z1osufan]

“A million miles, ... this might happen only once.” THAT IS ONE TOO MANY TIMES MFERS

[@janetmiller2160]

And if it would only happen 1 in 1 million times,why did you add it?

[@RMMsnowboard]

A million miles is not a lot either. Wtf is wrong with these major corporations?

[@7az559]

Even a risk as small as that is still dangerous

[@georgemendez777]

Planes travel a million miles in a month maybe 2 months and it only happens once.... oh is that all ok.

[@sandk7969]

If a plane goes around the world with 1million mile as the indicator the chances are 2.5% of planes that flew with this system would crash. 2.5% is still too many. So a plane have 2.5% chances of crashing multiple of how many plane that flew that day, sounds more than 2.5% right? Imagine 200 plane flew that day 5 planes have 100% chance of crashing. 5 plane per maximum seats. Thats like 1300 souls.

[@Firedog105]

Pilots have a hard and stressful enough job as it is. Could you imagine piloting and the plane going out of control like it has a mind of its own. There is no pulling off on the shoulder calling AAA for a tow .

[@aintplayinggames7086]

Big tech wants fully automated planes I hear, but this can be very dangerous, especially if someone wants to do sabotage. Computers are great, but so are the pilots that fly these machines.

[@kanamekiyru]

@@aintplayinggames7086 planes are alreasy mostly automatic. They even have planes that can take off on its own

[@slvrcobra1337]

@@neb4587 Do you have a job where hundreds of people can die if you fuck up? Where people are relying on you to know what you're doing so that they can see their families or do business? Where a change in the weather can mean your job changes drastically at any second? I think pilots may be taking slightly too big of a paycheck at times, but I do believe what they do is so insanely important that they _should_ be well-paid.

[@iccyricardo7608]

@@slvrcobra1337 they arent asking to be paid 250K. Chill. They're saying 250K is too damn much and it is. Clearly you have to be skilled to be a pilot but 11 minutes for take off and landing and less than 4 years for 250K? no. It's not like they deserve a teachers salary but its definately not 250k.

[@iiiDP]

Ben Mackay Great point genius. Those 11 minutes are the most damgerous and critical phases of flight. Takeoff, approach, and landing

[@matthewdrury3291]

I hope all those families sue the hell out of them

[@suedawn5784]

All that accomplishes is the airlines having to pay more for planes which then gets passed onto passengers having to pay more for tickets and fees

[@kukuhpringgo]

@@suedawn5784 then just buy airbus. Hmm.. could the airline ask boeing for a refund?

[@tomo0086]

kukuh pringgo Yes, the airlines could sue them to get a refund since they were sold a plane under false pretences. The plane will most likely need recertifications and additional training (a selling point Boeing used was that it wouldn’t require this). But it would take years to get their Airbus planes delivered so it’s a difficult choice.

[@jamezh2822]

@@tomo0086 no, they can't sue them, no they were not "sold on false pretences"

[@michaelcatbagan9186]

They will. It will be settled out of court to protect its shareholders from doing anything drastic.

[@heavenstomurgatroyd7033]

Gee as a retired engineer I thought it was our job to fix " the wrong things"..... Yikes.

[@Christopher-rc5cj]

lol I caught that too

[@Cbd_7ohm]

It wasn't their fault. They aren't in charge.

[@humanonearth1]

CEO needs to step down. And some other appropriate firings.

[@norealsense]

People need to go to jail not just "step down" or get fired.

[@humanonearth1]

@@norealsense Rich people don't "go to jail" generally. They hire expensive lawyers. That's how "justice" works.

[@kevinloving3141]

Eh what do expect from college grad-U-ates sheesh smh smh.

[@atlkidz1]

deepbigeyes OJ is a prime example of that

[@oxdhaoxt3694]

Blame the FAA who turn a blind eye because they are in the pockets of Boeing

[@joshwatson7303]

People need to go to jail for this

[@WilliamJones-Halibut-vq1fs]

It’s likely just human error in a very complicated process.

[@capspik]

or shot

[@WilliamJones-Halibut-vq1fs]

@@capspikThe Russians used to use the execution method of quality control. It didn't work. Punishments generally provoke coverups for the sake of others and make people risk adverse. As a quality control method its a disaster.

[@capspik]

@@WilliamJones-Halibut-vq1fs I guess a good ass raping is just as effective.

[@sdvten]

@@WilliamJones-Halibut-vq1fs No its not. They did not add redundancy to a system to save money. They admitted it. Depending on one and only one sensor for feedback on an important flight system is asinine and not SOP.

[@MuzeecX]

Profit > Lives Sad fact in this society of ours.

[@DanielEricksoncutter]

Johnny S. Yes, but trust be Boeing has and will lose hella money from all of this. Millions if not billions. Airlines can just buy AirBus...

[@bendover9411]

Nah, pilots didn't need to know about the new system, WTF????

[@armastat]

All the system was supposed to do was stop the engines from causing the nose to climb... its intention was to make the plane fly just like all other 737's. It didn't work as intended all the time, true.. but let me tell u there are A LOT of systems in a modern jet that the pilots know nothing about or don't know how they work. BUT there are procedures they are train in that will stop 99.9% of failures, no matter if its an unknown system... Its clear from reports that the two airlines involved in the crashes didn't train their pilots fully (those crashes could have been avoided)

[@f3nd13y]

they knew

[@usmanwater]

Armastat false. Place any pilot with their ATPL in an aircraft and they will know everything the systems inside out. It wasn’t the airlines faults at all, Boeing messed up with the AOA systems.

[@armastat]

@@usmanwater What is the proper procedure when a plane starts an uncommanded nose down change in attitude. the proper pilot response is the same in every type of plane.... can you tell me what that procedure is? Its a short as three simple words and if you can't tell me then you have no idea what you are talking about... I will wait.

[@Sayabaik96]

@@armastat Boeing admitted their flaw. You're just being denial that's all. It is fact that Boeing didn't provide a proper procedure for such cases. They don't want to burden the pilot? That was a disgusting excuse.

[@ConnorFabiano]

I can’t believe he actually said that telling the pilots about the system that killed them would have not helped.

[@3chords490]

Connor Fabiano Double speak at its finest.

[@randallsemrau7845]

For the same reasons they don't discuss with pilots the intricacies of hydraulic systems, engines and electrical systems. Pilots need to know how to fly aircraft and react appropriately in the event of emergencies. They dont often have time to figure things out. It would often but not always, be extraneous, unnecessary information.

[@WackyBroProductions]

He's right, it wouldn't have helped. The outcome would have been the same.

[@ConnorFabiano]

It absolutely would have helped. If the pilots knew what was going on they could have shut off the MCAS system.

[@Cbd_7ohm]

@@WackyBroProductions Doofus.

[@KhalidStoleeYour111]

Hiding information in the aviation system am I reading this right??

[@FPNN]

good post

[@ayodejiogundiran5153]

Yes you are pal. And to have the guts to say that he doesn't know whether "understanding the system would have changed the outcome". Well, understanding the system and how it works would have been a good start to know how to overcome it. It is all corporate greed in the sense that they were trying to compete with the new Airbus.

[@NODAK9]

@KD Dollaz amp.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/60-minutes-report-to-reveal-disturbing-new-fears-about-troubled-boeing-max-planes/news-story/9c6049a81c32a6de0bb2c89e53909c45

[@KhalidStoleeYour111]

N Odak “ It has a mind of it own” what type of shit is that 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

[@christopherwilson6527]

Not hidden, just not pointed out

[@TheInsomnatech]

They obviously knew it was an issue these planes should have been grounded. These poeple should be jailed for manslaughter.

[@lanceviacrucis5170]

I know they caused 2 crashes that caused hundreds of lives but who knows maybe they didn't have the knowlege on how steep their dive was supposed to be because they were trying this for the first time fir them to test this and it went perfectly. But those 2 were having a defective sensor

[@go_dawgs_8290]

It’s a NEW system there is always something tests and training cannot prepare for

[@vuetube4558]

BOEING murdering people in plain sight. Notice NO ONE at BOEING is in jail?

[@1chish]

@@go_dawgs_8290 If a new system is that dangerous maybe it should not have been released? Nad maybe if Boeing hadn't tried to save $ Bns by trying to redesign a 50 year old aircraft for new bigger engines it wouldn't have been needed anyway. Boeing played off profits against risk. Do not tell me they never knew.

[@marcoatzeri4138]

@@lanceviacrucis5170 It is Boeing job to know how they design the system. If they don`t know they should stop to design and sell airplanes.

[@artisteric]

And even after the Ethiopian crash they STILL tried to save face and not ground the max claiming it was safe when they knew it wasn’t!!! 🤦‍♂️

[@GreaterThanGodLike]

@carlo martin completely unnecessary to call it third world.

[@bbreese703]

​@@GreaterThanGodLike Why? The shoe fits.

[@GreaterThanGodLike]

@@bbreese703 Because there are plenty of airlines in many other places that have had issues it makes no sense to single out Ethiopia airlines especially when their services are one of the best and quite modern. This just shows me how ignorant and bias people in the west are.

[@tact1calbanana388]

@carlo martin wrong

[@blackhawke10]

@@GreaterThanGodLike Why? Did your feelings get hurt?

[@Youre_Right]

That plane the 737 max is done. I wouldn’t get on one even if the flight was free.

[@michaelmarquis8072]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKrIopiniLOGnbM

[@randallsemrau7845]

The Max will fly again soon, and safely carry millions more passengers. Do you always overreact to situations with known causes and solutions? How on earth do you even exist in a world full of complete UNKNOWNS?

[@warrenaray]

RANDALL SEMRAU that’s not an unknown. Two planes went down over the same issue. 300 people dead. Those deaths could have been prevented. Also, Boeing clearly doesn’t care about safety. If so, they would have corrected the issue before the first plane crash.

[@randallsemrau7845]

@@warrenaray You're pretty clearly just shorting Boeing stock. So what. You and your other short alter-egos don't even have a clue how heavier-than-air objects make it off the ground, never mind the background of electronic flight controls. Tell your handlers you are out of your league.

[@joshuaguill7636]

737 and max are not done with they’ll be flying soon

[@matthewdrury3291]

Someone also needs to go to jail over those deaths they know about it and they know it could happen again, that's manslaughter know people could get on the plane with that fault.

[@shadesCAN]

You honestly think that some people are going to do jail time, for a few planes crashing out of the sky? You should go read up on the Bayer aids scandal that took place in the 80's, and learn how corporate America is immune from the law. Bayer knew that they had tainted blood used in their hemophiliac drugs. So what does a greedy corporation do? First thing ,don't pull the drug off the shelf in a recall. Secondly, you quietly get the HIV tainted product off north American shelves replacing it with drugs that are clear of HIV. Then you try to recover lost profits and send all the Aids tainted drugs to sell in Spain and write off as much as possible in medicine donations allow to Africans. With all that information found, not one corperate shill from Bayer in America has gone to prison. But the aids they helped spread, is still infecting and killing people today. Nobody's going to be doing jail time sadly!

[@rizvi78611]

The ceo of Boeing need to send n the one who approved the max from FAA

[@yuan1740]

The person that ends up in jail is a scapegoat to sooth the public, a person that hasn't seen any bonus from this decision anyway and probably was pressured into it, like the engineers working on that software, the huge fish get off with a slap on the wrist to make some more money

[@ryderk3727]

Yakav8r55m Yes. We do.

[@ryderk3727]

Yakav8r55m You should ask yourself why you’re defending money hungry corporate pigs that put their own pockets before human lives...

[@DicklessHipster]

Damn, Michael Strahan gets around. Do work son.

[@GauntLife]

. Jason haha no doubt

[@walterruiz5547]

He's been around

[@yucatansuckaman5726]

For starting out as just a football player, he really has come a long way and kept himself out of controversy.

[@chatman2a]

Time-traveling Troll With your comment, you have demonstrated to everyone how incredibly ignorant & immature you are. Thanks for letting us know.

[@honoremeritus2665]

Wearing a dress make up and all of that bullshit gets you a lot of work... Michelle not Strahan

[@The_Notorious_N.O.E.]

"Don't want to fix the wrong thing" ? Well good job, Boeing 👏👏👏 How'd that turn out for you?

[@danielmorse6597]

Prison for Boeing management and CEO. Take it to the top.

[@sonidamara5018]

after second crash the CEO still say max8 was a Very safe plane

[@anthonystone8095]

@@michaelmarquis8072 Guns are irrelevant. Also your statement is invalid... I dont like to insult people, but that was the dumbest comment I've read on youtube today.

[@anthonystone8095]

@@michaelmarquis8072 because gun manufacturers do not cover up the fact that guns can be fatal, like the FAA is deliberately doing. Also gun manufacturers make the guns and sell them and thats it. Its wether the person who buys it is sane or not.... "guns dont kill people. People kill people."

[@danielmorse6597]

@@michaelmarquis8072 Then ban all cars and trucks. You are stupid and confuse the subject.

[@nicci24]

Totally agree. We can't have these CEOs just showing a certain amount of "wastage" of human life as long as their profits aren't hurt

[@davidellis5141]

Typical Bureaucrats not paying attention to pilots. The Bottom line , 💸 all that concerns them , not safety.

[@The_Notorious_N.O.E.]

But now they're going to end up losing more than they were trying to get because of lawsuits, stocks dropping, and fines

[@reneejames4806]

@@The_Notorious_N.O.E.I so agree with you. I said the exact same thing. They need to stick with what works. Well trained pilots!!

[@ayodejiogundiran5153]

Well technically they did pay attention to the pilots, but only to blame the ones who were at the controls of the doomed aircrafts for being the cause of the crashes.

[@reneejames4806]

@@ayodejiogundiran5153 They had the audacity to blame those pilots? Why does this not surprise me? Anything to defer attention from their endless, profit-driven, safety last motives!!

[@bbreese703]

Those 'bureaucrats' are paying careful attention to who is filling their campaign coffers. If the pilot's union donates at all, I'm certain it pales in comparison to Boeing.

[@florencegomer7937]

1:42 ... "a million miles" ... "you'll see this once" ... On those stats, an aircraft flying three thousand miles every day will meet this problem in under a year. That is a huge issue. With twenty aircraft deployed, you would look at losing one every month.

[@bonzieboy9942]

Hope your joking about the miles, impossible to fly 300k miles in a day

[@florencegomer7937]

bonzieboy ... three thousand miles is 3 k not 300 k ... Three thousand miles is 7 hours flying time. Do that every day and it's a million miles per year.

[@randallsemrau7845]

'Million miles' here is an expression meaning 'little likelihood'. Not to be taken literally. If you'll notice, the discussion was a general one, not a detailed technical discussion between engineers or accident investigators.

[@florencegomer7937]

However, in this case "million miles" literally means the aircraft crashes within a year. So, a very bad choice of words given they have had two crashes and a number of incidents that were got back under control.

[@randallsemrau7845]

@@florencegomer7937 No, this case was not a detailed technical discussion. You're poor at understanding context.

[@paradisiak]

“I don’t know that understanding this system would’ve change the outcome on this” Askjghrudifnrh WHAT

[@christopherrogers6194]

Wow such ignorance. I do avionics this is kinda my thing, knowing the system would have solved the issue, the guy in the video is an idiot.

[@abdulkadiryilmaz4085]

>Be a pilot >See an aircraft crash, probably caused by a new system >Try to learn the new system about the plane you're flying >Get an answer like "u DoN't NeeD thAt duDe"

[@abdulkadiryilmaz4085]

@Yakav8r55m don't compare apples with oranges. they are not the same. every pilot knows how a tcas or any other assistant system works in their plane. so why they shouldn't know about mcas?

[@akfox38]

@Yakav8r55m You are so wrong my friend, with some systems yes there's no need to know, but for any system that can send an aircraft out of control or suddenly lower the nose, the pilots absolutely need to know about it and have written procedures on how to recover from any unexpected activation of that system. That kind of documentation and training exists for every other system in airplanes that can cause that sort of situation. How do you expect a pilot to recover his aircraft if it suddenly nose dives and he has no idea what's causing it??? Also, they put the system out there with only one sensor, no redundancy for a critical system, also unheard of.

[@akfox38]

@Yakav8r55m But those weren't components that were purposefully designed to put the aircraft in a dangerous nose down attitude, the pilots needed to be at least aware that the system was there and know how to properly disengage it in the case of a malfunction. Its apples and oranges comparing those issues with the mcas on the max80. I'm an active pilot and trust me my friend, you want your pilots to be aware of a system like that, when the crap hits the fan its only us that can fix the situation, not automation...

[@akfox38]

@Yakav8r55m Pilots here in the States, most recently American Airlines have stated they weren't told about the system at all. The pilots Union for American at a meeting in which they expressed the concern that they weren't told about the system. I agree with you about training being a factor as a difference between certain airlines, but if no training is provided and they're not aware then it's a different situation entirely and its gross negligence by Boeing

[@GBR4ME]

This is what happens when they permit accountants to make decisions over Engineers.

[@Cbd_7ohm]

No. The ceo.

[@gcoyne8078]

At what point will somebody be held responsible for involuntary manslaughter?

[@anthonystone8095]

Would it be involuntary if they know its not working right?

[@maximme]

Unnecessary Information. you guys don't need to know this sorts of stuff. - Boeing. and, hush FAA, you got your money.

[@randallsemrau7845]

There's a reason I can walk onto a flight deck as an aircraft technician, try to explain something to a flight crew, and get the response 'just tell us what we need to know'. It happens at least once a month.

[@beyerch]

Just be lucky that we showed you where the landing gear button is.....Ungrateful pilots.....

[@sexynelson100]

It's obvious why Boeing didn't tell the pilots. It's because they didn't want them to undergo more simulator training.. That would have deterred many airlines from purchasing the 737 MAX.. so this was done for nothing but PROFIT !

[@psyglitchv]

well it's either excessive sim training or their lives, so i'm not completely sure if that was the case

[@sexynelson100]

@@psyglitchv It seems Boeing intentionally cut corners to avoid pilots needing to retrain on simulators.. This was a condition with many of the airlines purchasing the MAX 8.. This is why Boeing only used one AOA sensor for MCAS with no faulty indicator warning and this is also why Boeing didn't tell anyone about it.. This amounts to criminal manslaughter.. especially even after Boeing assured the GLOBAL flying public these aircraft were safe.

[@reneejames4806]

@@sexynelson100 Yes. And it was reported on the news that this system wasn't even in the manuel. Can you believe it? I don't trust Boeing anymore and I'm not getting on that plane.

[@matthewbailey2013]

@@sexynelson100 Sounds like you know about AOA, and MCAS. What was their end game strategy ? Forget money (real reason): Did Boeing think they would never tell anybody about the MCAS ? Really never tell pilots of the system ever. Phase it in ? Logically some piece of this puzzle is missing, what is it ? Money doesn't cover all of that. God I hope not !

[@giths19]

@@matthewbailey2013 you must be new to American corporate greed and lobbying. The amount of risks people will take to make billions is crazy. Remember the 2008 market crash was unavoidable. Economists warned us but the powers that be silenced them. The current opioids addiction crisis could have been avoided if Dr. were informed about the addictive ingredients in the opiods but pharmaceutical lobbyist made sure the drs were kept in the dark. So why would it be hard to believe that Boeing lobbied the FAA so they can cut corners to compete with the A320 NEO?

[@bennybodash855]

Unnecessary information! I almost choked when he said this. This is how the Corporations dance around everything and screw the people.

[@patrickweismann5005]

I especially love the vague "we want to be sure that we're fixing the right things".

[@mhiscott4925]

"we don't want to fix the wrong things"....? If it needs fixing, isn't it wrong?

[@artisteric]

@GodSpeed - I think they meant that they don’t want to fix the things that don’t need fixing AKA the wrong things. But they also don’t want to rush to fix the right things AKA the things that do need fixing. This makes sense to me. But still.. they wouldn’t need to rush if they got to it earlier

[@mhiscott4925]

@@artisteric on such an important piece of equipment, with so many engineers, they should be fixing everything. Not just the important problems.

[@artisteric]

@GodSpeed - I agree but the truth is that they don’t want to fix everything unless it becomes more than an annoyance, I.e: tragedy. And this is not just a Boeing problem. Airbus has had to share of safety oversights as well. We just live in the age where social media and instant access to news spreads stories like wildfire and maybe it’ll help these big corporations keep in line. Think back to the DC-10. Safety issue after safety issue and crash after crash. Executives owned up to the mistakes and made the airplane one of the safest and most reliable aircrafts ever. The public knew little other than “dc-10s have issues, all are grounded, problems fixed, back in air, fly safe” .. simpler times.

[@torar963]

The dotn want to rush things, that would cause even more problems. You can't just rush software update or hardware modification on important device without proper testing/analysis.

[@MayorFuglycools]

Maybe the "engineers" that implement new devices in public aircraft should all FLY in that aircraft for 1000 hours as part of the "testing" process. I guarantee you the new changes to future aircraft will be 100% SAFE with them onboard. Mayor Fuglycool

[@reneejames4806]

Mayor Fuglycool, Yesss. They're so quick to sign-off innocent people to a death plunge, but will go to great lengths to ensure the safety of their evil behinds!!!

[@elaineblackhurst1509]

Mayor Fuglycool I wouldn’t rush to blame all the Engineers the big Guys at the top 👨‍💼 Ceo Boeing and FAA etc should have foreseen the problems at certifying stage and alerted the engineers but they didn’t therefore that top lot not the engineers should be charged with manslaughter and spend time in Guantanamo to help them recharge There defunct batteries

[@MYNAMEISKLAY]

@@elaineblackhurst1509 I agree, but forcing them to ride it will give them more reason to reconsider every last detail of the plan before execution.

[@MikhaelAhava]

I think they do, they do a lot of testing including test flights.

[@peterlenko3355]

Your worship, you're not far off. After WW2 my Opa was an aircraft technician for the Dutch Air force. If you fixed the plane, you flew the mission (so I was told).

[@AC-bn6kn]

How does one, "fix the wrong things".... just fix EVERYTHING these people are supposed to be top notch responsible for many many people's lives.....

[@randallsemrau7845]

He's referring to leaving things alone which aren't broken.

[@michaelcatbagan9186]

Only now they "don't want to rush and do a crappy job..".... too late, Boeing. Start again.

[@BFDT-4]

Yep, just like Boeing saying to pilots: Wrong. Try again. When you need to know how to fix this broken airplane in the air with seconds to go, we will give you an additional manual.

[@randallsemrau7845]

Start again... with what?? All derivations of the 737 previous to the Max 8, which collectively carried half the planet's population safely to their destinations?

[@Sketchmee5]

Really want to know who was the Boeing officer on the tape and this is going to open another can of worms!

[@1chish]

Latest saying heard by passengers at Arrivals: "If its THAT Boeing I ain't going!"

[@RohitGupta-pm7cu]

U have a big mouth. How about U go on Ur next holiday walking. I will be going Boeing always have always will . Will get on the max today would have got on the max last October

[@vince9549]

Rohit Gupta well said, id get on it any day. It is still one of the safest planes, ppl also got back on the dc10 after it was fixed... i understand ppl dont want to fly on the max but i would

[@junwu1793]

Yes Boeing has a safety record but this Max surely caused loss of confidence on them, people need to boycott them just for the sake of their arrogance.

[@sonidamara5018]

dc10 doesnt have automatic nosedive system or mcas... i prefer fly with dc10 over max8

[@1chish]

@@vince9549 How can you say that the 737 MAX 'is still one of the safest planes' when it has killed so many people in such a short time. It is a new aircraft and a failure safety wise. This aircraft will be an albatross around Boeing's neck and rightly so. They should have designed a completely new aircraft given the 737 airframe design is 50 years old and cannot handle the new large turbofans and why Boeing needed MCAS in the first place. They went for a cheaper revamp to save Dollars so they stretched the old girl once too often and it bit back. Hard.

[@JayJay-wb4mv]

no money paid out will cover a loved ones life ☝️

[@jackson.denzler.]

Jayyy Jay better than nothing though 😢

[@JayJay-wb4mv]

@@jackson.denzler. that's true

[@samiamor3955]

The money paid out is a punishment to the company. With the punishments comes with a lesson so it never happens again.

[@omaroba1490]

Boeing should be investigated by the government of USA and other countries. Like this is crazy. This is protecting a company over passangers lives. F that

[@omaroba1490]

@Jason Tempel Y'all people from other countries love to post stupid shit about USA gov. Like everyday people in USA have any power. Its the rich and powerful and our Congress. Go yell and about to them. Thank you

[@elaineblackhurst1509]

Tony Williams absolutely correct corrupt governments are surrounded by corrupt puppets.Made in America oh dear

[@omaroba1490]

@Jason Tempel Did you take your meds today?? Leave me alone. They are bashing everyday Americans and thats wrong..

[@nocopyrightaudiomusiclibra7802]

nice, I think it is great keep sharing them good job thanks for this

[@revilo9725]

Listening to that Boeing employee talk just goes to show you can get any kind of job if you know the right people. Absolute waffle

[@jessicalt4121]

And people worry about unions?? Sh - - ! Looks like corporate greed Explains everything here. Class action lawsuit!

[@sanynava]

Unions have taken it too far as well...

[@Skate_Hack]

Jessica LT No class action. Class action makes tons of money for the lawyer and very little for the plaintiff.

[@karolj.6775]

@@Skate_Hack , . I agree

[@wanefelicia8779]

@@sanynava yes giving a bad name to organized labor efforts🙈

[@josecurbelo1219]

Fly safe. Fly Airbus.

[@leonjuliano]

@Hamilton Rodgers the 737 NG is alright. Boeing planes are great. The problem is that between 737 Max and A320, Airbus is the safest option. But I would never say the NG is a bad plane. Actually it's the opposite. Just like the 757, 777 and 787.

[@mairewalton5670]

Monstrous!!! Boeing has lost credibility...

[@cyndie26]

Máire Walton Don't forget that they have a near-perfect safety track record and are one of the primary suppliers to the USAF.

[@mairewalton5670]

cyndie26 .... until they don’t...

[@723lion]

Boeing needs to fire all those software engineer kids and hire solid programmers who actually went to college.

[@concerned1313]

Good story ABC and thank you for that and using this format!

[@kristopherscott634]

This may actually be much bigger than the faulty angle of attack sensor, the MCAS software or even the 737 Max design itself!! Ralph Nadar is a legend in the transportation safety industry as he went after automakers who were designing unsafe vehicles in the 1960s and 1970s as the force behind the first significant Transportation Safety Act passed in the early 1970s. He's the reason that there are airbags in seat belts in all cars today! Well, Ralph Nader's niece was on that Ethiopian crash. Their family is now suing Boeing and the FAA. Former and current Boeing engineers were subpoenaed to provide information on Boeing's design and certification process. One of their former flight controls engineer, Peter Lemme disclosed that Boeing has repeatedly and intentionally violated key system safety design principles and egregiously abused its FAA certification designee position to allow it to pass certification muster, resulting in hundreds of Boeing airplane passenger deaths and injuries over the years. When MCAS engaged during the last nose dive on the Ethiopian flight, the aircraft was recorded at a speed of about 500 mph (faster than any 737 Max has likely ever flown at that altitude!) and at a downward angle of 40 degrees!! It took 32 seconds until the aircraft struck the earth.

[@randallsemrau7845]

Which goes to show for the umpteenth time..... that you can always find somebody to say what you want them to say. Context be damned.

[@JUFFAIR101]

I always prefer Airbus A320 A330 A350 B777 too but no 747 or 737 even before the max crashes

[@franklopez8359]

JUFFAIR101 CITY

[@no1ded]

Like we are interested in your unqualified preferences.

[@hwd71]

Shareholders profits before people. A lot of people need to go to jail over this. 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

[@rightasrein]

"Unnecessary information" So they really couldn't see that far ahead? The thought "What if this system does its thing, when we don't want it to?" has never crossed anyone's mind? We humans are remarkably good at inventing new levels of stupidity.

[@ricrylgabriel320]

Godbless everyone.

[@XxDrEvilxX]

This is why I love Unions, they are there for the employees and customers! Boeing is 100% at fault and so if the FAA for being too buddy buddy with them and approving this plane.

[@GeneDexterExperience]

Lasombra Unions and Washington State officials begged Boeing years ago not to take cost cutting measures that basically parted out the Company.

[@christopherhuggins3212]

Yet built in a plant that has a Union. Oh the irony in this comment.

[@GeneDexterExperience]

Christopher Huggins Finished in a plant built by Unions. Boeing parted out the Company.

[@heightsofsagarmatha]

Unions protect all kinds of corrupt people

[@GeneDexterExperience]

heightsofsagarmatha In this case, it has to do with Executives breaking up Boeing and cutting costs.

[@clivedavies7984]

What an absolute shambles! This self pilot and self driving phrase is killing so many people and companies are getting away with it. SHOCKING ! My heart goes out to the poor families.

[@happyraccoon4791]

I love self certification. Made myself a brain surgeon

[@stefenski]

'I don't disagree' ! you mean you agree.

[@southfieldtrill9690]

Right i notice that b.s. 2💀😂

[@promiscuouscrab4040]

BP Deep Horizon Oil Catastrophe: Conducts terrible PR, half assed cleanup efforts, mediocre apology. Boeing: Hold my beer

[@abram730]

Let us not forget that they paid the government inspectors not to do inspections with drugs, sex, and vacations. The government announced that the inspectors could perhaps need some ethics training. No charges because drug dealing, bribery, and prostitution are not crimes for the rich or government employees.

[@user-tq9vs6fc9u]

That’s ridiculous. If there is a crash, THIS IS IMPORTANT INFORMATION.

[@sdjrh1996]

Frekin ground these planes... and why is their stock not plummeting..? Out of control...

[@5roundsrapid263]

The planes have been grounded for months now, and the stock did take a huge drop, about $40 billion worth.

[@petergrant9259]

Sadly if it was an easy fix it would have been completed. You either have a plane that can can go into a stall and crash, or a system MCAS that over corrects a poorly designed plane. Any engineer will tell you, you just can't keep putting larger engines on a smaller plane designed 60 years ago. But Boeing knew the cost of a redesign and went the cheap route to sell the plane under the 737 umbrella. Meaning they are criminally negligent. My best way to explain this is one can put a 5 HP outboard on a 12 foot rowboat, and the boat will be fine. If you then try to put a 225HP outboard on the same rowboat it may sink or if you get it to go it will have to have total trim, and then when you slow down the wake from the rear will sink the boat. Bottom line the LEAP size engine is too big for the 737..period.

[@colinbarnes6143]

Please ensure that all senior FAA and Boeing staff are on the approval flight required for certification.

[@greypoupon7267]

amen

[@greypoupon7267]

who certified? Is Boeing their own Oda

[@meRyanP]

"We don't think pilots need to know the plane can nose over on its own" - Boeing

[@islamicschoolofmemestudies]

"A million miles you may encounter this once" Is the same type argument that "our ship is unsinkable".

[@popupopinions4953]

Wow i will never get on a plane

[@FighterFlash]

Shon the Esthetician sadly you are more likely to get killed by a texting teenager or driver under the influence ,or rage roids

[@sleeyjoe32]

God bless

[@kyanabonaventure4984]

Knowing information about the new system wouldn’t have prevented what happened??? Wow I can’t believe what I just heard

[@danlocs]

How exactly can you fix the "wrong" things? Sounds very suspicious.

[@semsemeini7905]

I flew on this thing 3 times. Scary.

[@wronggg]

Driving in your car is almost certainly scarier.

[@rockysmith8173]

Why was it even sold to airlines with such kind of an issue without even proper training

[@JamaicanMeCrazy]

After the 2nd crash I traveled to Florida and heard pilots discussing mcas at customs... There were 737 Max pilots one of them had no idea what was going on. Freaked me out.

[@Jmanrolla]

0:40 the dude in the background was carrying three duffel bags, wtf?

[@andreamichelea]

DrPuppeteer ASMR Lolol it’s one duffle bag and a golf bag

[@michaelcapporta8222]

Fix the problem walk around the planes Pilots go on strike if not 1 plane crash is one too many

[@randallsemrau7845]

If you're not willing to accept one crash, and you don't think ICAO should allow the idea that a single crash is acceptable, then there's only one solution: ground every aircraft, forever. Is a 90% reduction in long range esp. trans-oceanic travel... an acceptable outcome? How do you think THAT would work out? We all know that thousands of people would die due to the loss of a rapid transportation option, and for many reasons.

[@eyeamtheomen]

Also, the industry got this lesson from an earlier crash, I believe with new Airbus automation no one thought pilots should be made aware of. Proud of these #American pilots and everyone who tried to sound the alarm. I'll be proud again of #Boeing IF they'll stop hedging legal arguments, own this mistake fully, and fix it!

[@jamesc5751]

Boeing outsourced MCAS design to India, now they outsource more jobs to India. Boeing has no actual engineers at this point, just managers and outsourced glorified IT.

[@eyeamtheomen]

@JamesC Well, by trade, I'm IT, & I can assure you full stop, there is no "glory" in it. I've been privileged to do important work w/an awesome team of technological professionals AND I've struggled to scrub the dregs of dumb tech off of me. Don't judge. Keep listening!

[@gregheffley2]

Would it have hurt to inform the pilots of the MCAS system when Boeing installed it?

[@raywalker8978]

Refuse to get on 737 Boycott all 737 airplanes.

[@vuetube4558]

You couldn't pay me enough to get on one! I don't have more than one life for BOEING to play MCAS game

[@cyndie26]

But what if you don't have a choice?

[@dawaj3715]

I will never set foot on a 737 Max. And I'll think twice about flying on anything Boeing ever again.

[@dreaded_pegasus6578]

I work on a 60 year old Boeing airplane, well a shit ton of them and we haven’t had a crash since 2013 and that was “pilot error” so Boeing airplanes themselves are not unsafe. It’s the new ones that are because Boeing doesn’t want to completely ground and scrap a whole fleet in order to fix it.

[@dawaj3715]

I don't doubt the safety of older Boeing planes. My issue is with supporting a company who would deliberately put profits in front of people. The corruption is rampant and they need to learn a lesson.

[@cyndie26]

But what if there is a last-minute change of equipment from an Airbus to a Boeing plane?

[@cyndie26]

Dawa J The primary goal of any corporation is to maximize shareholder profits. If they put people first, they may go out of business due to lack of funds, but refusing to do so may cause investors to back out.

[@dawaj3715]

cyndie26 they need to put people first. The fact that you are arguing profits over people demonstrates how our system of government has failed the American people. In more ways than one.

[@Herowebcomics]

Wow! Well I hope they fix it!

[@raymondmccomas3710]

Anyone who lost a loved one should be suing their greedy asses !!!!

[@MyronKapetanakis]

Sounds like a dialogue between the chernobyl directors...

[@1arritechno]

So , this is a form of autopilot that has ultimate control & Pilots were never told... Boeing Mgt., should face Jail.

[@lanceviacrucis5170]

It's a system that tries to prevent a stall by pointing the nose down fir the engines to generate thrust but boeing didn't know how steep the dive was it depends on the angle of attack speed and altitude in the case of those 2 crashes when the pilots tried to pull up it was to steep so the sensors sent a signal to the black boxes to point the nose down to prevent another stall and it goes on a continues cycle until the end

[@mattgraham4340]

Well, technically the pilots could turn off electrical system on the horizontal stabilizer and manually adjust the stabilizer. In practice that may not be feasible, especially if the pilots don't know what is happening

[@victorh5174]

I heard the autopilot just couldn't compensate with the bigger engines, that affected the stall characteristics. All this, in an attempt to compete with an Airbus model, that had the latest autopilot tech.

[@lanceviacrucis5170]

@@victorh5174 no the autopilot was not the problom

[@lanceviacrucis5170]

@@victorh5174 the engines were since the A320 neo came out the neo had bigger engines with higher fuel effieciency so boeing had to compete with the A320 neo so they made the Max but there is a problem the 737 was lower to the ground meaning they have little to no space to put bigger engines so they put the engines "Forward and up" but there was a tradeoff it pitched the nose up higher so it can lead to a stall so they put the Mcas system to compensate but as you may know it caused the crashes

[@cactibacti]

"..don't want to fix the wrong things." Ummm, what does that mean?

[@pnode2841]

Anyway you can lessen the amount of power that mcas has on the flight control so you can control the plane?

[@artistjoh]

It is increasingly looking like criminal negligence is involved. I hope the FBI has launched an investigation already, and executive passports are being monitored.

[@sdaffaf]

I have read somewhere that the FBI is investigating and have a whistleblower from Boeing helping them.

[@artistjoh]

sdaffaf I am not surprised. Boeing has gone quiet as if they are expecting the worst.

[@giths19]

In true corporate America fashion nothing big will happen. Watch them sacrifce an engineer who designed that sensor instead of the CEO.

[@artistjoh]

eWorkx It is normal for leaders to try to make minions take the fall. Look at VW and dieselgate - the number of higher execs who must have known who go free while only a few are prosecuted. However, while it includes minions, it also incudes Martin Winterkorn, the previous CEO. Higher-ups do go to prison, even in corporate America - Jeffrey Skilling, former CEO of Enron is an example.

[@giths19]

@@artistjoh those 2 feel like exceptions not the rule. I mean 2008 market crash and no CEO saw jail time instead got tax payers money to fix the problem they created.

[@rioriggs3568]

Boeing keeps lying and lying and lying. As an engineer I can tell you I will never fly the 737 Max.

[@yeahnah7220]

As a plumber I'll never fly one either. I'll leave that to the pilots.

[@Samuraid77]

I keep my opinion that all the max 8s should be dismantled both as a precaution and a punishment.

[@billkittleman9631]

What was so "heated" in those clips?

[@crtmojo2705]

If law suits cost less then a fix. They don't do one. This has been the same for car makers and so on for decades.

[@blahblah8037]

CRT Mojo ye and cars kill way more people

[@joelzimmerman9955]

Every 737 captain show their middle finger to this LoL

[@Lunibruniful]

I'm glad Tyson improved his speech and is reporting news.

[@forceinfinity]

The airframe is not aerodynamically stable due to the size and position of the larger engines. So they came up with software to compensate. Now there's two independent sets of instruments that the pilots can cross check. That way if one set looks off, they can figure out through troubleshooting which is off. Now some genius thought it was a cute idea to break that redundancy principle with the MCAS and trust only *one* set of measurements. Gee...what could possibly go wrong if that single AOA sensor malfunctions?

[@paulden3158]

It's not just a software fix that's needed, it's a HARDWARE FIX !

[@jt8987]

*That a new system could nose down the aircraft and may have contributed to the crash* This sounds like straight out of the Onion

[@BFDT-4]

Fixing, and letting pilots know how to deal with something that is broken are two different things.

[@scotchsoda3165]

MAX engines are too far forward, in front of the wing, affecting the balance of the plane, so MCAS was added, to fix. The original 737 design used long thin jet engines (737-200), that fit under the wing. Boeing needs to design a new plane, that can incorporate these big new turbo fan engines, that fit in front of the wing.

[@jakeoht791]

I am a Boeing fan. It is the higher-ups in Boeing that are uneducated on the topic of aviation. Boeing crumbled under pressure.

[@aarons4996]

JakeOhT the new system and upgrade they are talking about would cost them a lot of time and most definitely millions and millions of dollars. It’s called money matters over safety. They don’t want to lose money because planes would be out for days.

[@jakeoht791]

@@aarons4996 The only thing they can do is fix the problem. Or their customers will think twice. Rather than rebuying all of their 737 Max back. They could do a 1 of a couple of things bringing the engine back and replace the engine with the standard ones on the 737-800. (Basically, make them 737-800s) Or fix the program. The planes are safe but the pilots were not informed. But I doubt they will buy them back or even do anything that drastic. In fact, only 1 airline has "canceled" their orders my guess is because they know if Boeing collapses the world's economy will take the hit Boeing only makes a little over half of their parts in the US.

[@greypoupon7267]

Boeing was a great company until McDonald Douglas took it

[@bgregg55]

346 dead. Boeing responds by blaming the pilots & covering their ass.

[@captbad9313]

What a total bummer. I wonder how many run away trim events happened before the crashes.

[@RUHappyATM]

Wow, and they suggested its pilot error?

[@mudabudda]

We don't want to fix the wrong things its broken or it isn't. omg they haven't got a scubi

[@nyck]

Bruh just said “unnecessary information” 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@watergate9557]

I’ve just googled the definition of transparency. Just as I thought, it hasn’t changed.

[@giths19]

Hahaha I shouldn't laugh since it's a tragedy but that was funny.

[@lonnyfuller5806]

If I was a pilot of that aircraft. I would be pissed. They should know all the systems and the condition of his aircraft.

[@thebastardgift]

Boeing valued black ink over headstones.

[@darylligon2701]

So true. In their mind the loss of life are minimal and only mishaps. I am not a big fan of government regulation, but in this case, Boeing needs some serious oversight.