Pinion Gearbox Review for Enduro MTB

[@bjogen1]

I've on a Zerode since a handful months, and agree to what you report. I'd like to add one fact that is not mentioned that much in these discussions (Pinion vs derailleurs), but which I think is the most important advantage: The "real time" gear change. My point: When twisting the shifter I KNOW that the gear will be in place AT EXACTLY THAT TIME. Changing gears with a derailleur is, in comparison, more of a "change request". Hopefully it will happen "pretty soon" after the request. But we all have experienced "slow delivery" cases, and the annoyance of that. After riding the bike some months I've started to value this MUCH MORE than the somewhat strange argument that "it doesn't change gear during load". I mean, give it a thought: Why do we "value" gear changes during load? The answer is (I claim): We've learned to do it this way. Not because it is "good".

[@SteveGouldChewy]

bjogen1 great point. Exactly right bro. 🤘🏻

[@JimiAle]

@bjogen1, well worded! The Pinion basically forces respect because of the nature of the beast. As a result my shifting is more precise & on my regular geared MTB has improved as well (no more gear crunching).

[@carljones7992]

Amazing comment

[@Buddyboz]

Great video! Not many Pinion reviews out there. This is one of the better ones. This past season (winter of 2018/2019) I built a MTB full suspension bike with Pinion 1.18- 18 gears. I rode almost 1000km this 2019 season. There all always the same sarcastic remarks on the drawbacks of this drivetrain. While I’m not going to argue that they’re not drawbacks; they’re not near a big deal as people think, and a few minor drawbacks out-weigh some of the bigger drawbacks of a “normal” drivetrain. I also agree on the learning curve part, and very much with the “how did I ever get by on a regular drivetrain!” I bought mine frame and gearbox slightly used. (2016 model on an Alutech German frame). Built up the rest new. It’s a great option! No more tuning gears or derailers getting bent or torn off on a MTB ride. Perfect for my enduro bike. Rear suspension is supple and active. Centred weight gives the bike a very stable feel and can help you roar though the rough stuff! Personally; if you can afford it- it’s certainly worth the money. I’d never go back! It’s my dream come true. So unless you’ve ridden one- don’t knock it until you’ve tried it! Cheers & happy trails !

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Mr Kevin B. Well said bro and thanks for the kind words!

[@Arfonfree]

Thanks for this analysis. I've been planning a Pinion bike purchase for next spring. This is the best description of what I can expect that I have found. Everybody else just seems to extol the virtues without getting into how it FEELS.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Arfonfree thx for kind words bud 👊🏻

[@JimiAle]

Bought a gearbox mtb a month ago, was a little disappointed, however after watching your video I’m happy to hear the issue is me & not the gearbox :-) Great video, cheers!

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Jimi Kiwi ha ha ha, yeah stick with it bro!

[@JimiAle]

​@@SteveGouldChewy update after watching your excellent review & now having ridden 2000km. The gearbox has gotten better & better, mainly to do with: 1, being worn in 2, my skills having improved The Pinion bike now my preferred bike despite being the heaviest (albeit with better weight distribution). My shifting on the regular SRAM equipped bike has improved as well.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Hey Jimi. Great! Cheers for the updates. Happy trails and Stay Healthy 🤘🏻

[@markmoreno7295]

Wow! Best description yet. Especially at 6:45 where you describe the feeling of loss of efficiency.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Mark Moreno thx buddy 🤘🏻

[@romanhrynyshyn4246]

Agreed with all what you say, gearbox is a future, no way back to traditional derailleurs, Zerode is the best bikes on the market! PS. take a look on Egon grips, they have one model exactly for using with this new shifter

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Roman Hrynyshyn ahh yes, Ergon did a crossover grip for the pinion. Is it a little long?

[@romanhrynyshyn4246]

@@SteveGouldChewy I think it's individual thing, but for my hands they are fine. They have locks on the outer side and perfectly match shape of shifter.

[@michaelstevens9434]

@@SteveGouldChewy I got a pair to replace the cut grip that was getting worn out. It is about 10mm longer than my cut grip, shifting the brake lever in further.

[@SolarizeYourLife]

Except for the cost...

[@paulbusby2013]

I was out exploring during my 1st week of retirement on my Giant Defy drop-bar bike in Sept '21. I took a turn to find the tarmac soon ended to gravel. Instead of turning back, I carried on slipping & sliding on my treadless 25c tyres. It reminded me of when I had an S Works MTB with V-brakes that got nicked. I've since converted my hybrid with Hunt 700c carbon 30 Allroad wheels & 35c knobblies. It would have been cheaper to just buy a 3rd bike but I didn't want to make the space in my flat & the choice at the mo is poor here in Blighty. I can now ride again in peace & tranquillity! I've been reading up on MTB tech including gearboxes, Gates drives etc. I converted a drop-bar bike to low riser bars 25yrs ago, sawed off XT gear pods then bought 7sp Grip Shifts - they were brilliant! I soon got to love the ability to shift up or down several gears instantly. They went out of fashion many yrs ago which was such a pity. MTBs need to lose that hanging rear derailleur! Glad to see the return of grip shifters! Added: The amount of rotation of those shifters looks very high!

[@gepardtilly]

Fantastic summary, thanks for sharing it. You answered all my questions I had, and nobody could answer it... big bonus points to you!

[@SteveGouldChewy]

olee22 thx for the kind words bro. 🤘🏻Ride On.

[@PhilosoFox]

That intel of your's on the drive train's 20 points of engagement: pure gold! I always wondered why the test bike I rode had soooooo much empty travel... and tada: combined leeway in the drive train and hub. In combination with an Onyx style hub, that problem will definitely shrink, but it's still a design flaw of the system. I hope that this problem can be overcome, as Rohloff doesn't have such a problem either. Thx again!

[@SteveGouldChewy]

PhilosoFox thx bro! Yeah, I have no idea why they have so few engagement points. Would be way better if it had less.

[@PhilosoFox]

Steve Gould Being of German origin, I might ask them, next time I get the chance😉

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Good idea! Let me know!!

[@gycy4466]

Hey Steve, I recently switched to a new Ti hardtail equipped with a Pinion C.12 gearbox. I tested it on several pavement rides before taking it into my usual local trail. On my second trail ride, the gearbox partially seized as I was pedalling up a steep climb in a low gear. It was not a total seizure, what happened was that the pedaling resistance suddenly increased dramatically, in both directions. There were no other symptoms or possible causes - no hard knocks, visible oil leaks, roughness or any loud noises prior to that. Also, I would not consider myself a particularly powerful or heavy rider - just your average joe weekly rider a shade under 90 kilos (200lbs) fully geared up. Taking the belt off confirmed that the resistance was in the gearbox and not from any part of the drivetrain. The bike is now with a local dealer who is doing some investigative work with Pinion. Since I could find nothing on any forums regarding similar incidents, I am leaving this out here for anyone to chime in with any experiences or opinions. If and when this gets sorted, I'll post a follow up should anyone encounter anything similar.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Wow! Sorry to hear you are without a bike. That is very interesting and I wonder what the cause / issue actually is. I’m going to guess it’s something faulty as those boxes are over engineered for their application. Hoping they sort it quickly and without question. Please keep us posted as to what the issue turns out to be!

[@gycy4466]

@@SteveGouldChewy Good news, I have my bike back, and it was not a fault of the gearbox. What happened was that the inner face of one of the crank arms had come into contact with the outboard face of the gearbox near the output shaft area. This was likely caused by an improper installation of the crank arm - firstly, after tightening the central crank screw, the crank arm then has to be "pulled outward as far as the stop", then the crank clamp bolts tightened. The pulling outward step wasn't performed by the mechanic during the install. I guess I was partially culpable in this, because i had brought it to an LBS whose mechanic had minimal experience with the Pinion (didn't have the Pinion sprocket tool on hand, went to a shop which did, and figured i might as well get them to put on the crank arms while at it.), and had kept quiet when I noticed that missing step, thinking it wouldn't be a big deal. Bottom line is - the installation steps in the owners' manual have to be performed to the letter!

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Ahhh. Yeah that’s a tricky one. I should re-do their installation instructional videos. Theirs are toss.

[@gycy4466]

@@SteveGouldChewy That's a good idea. They don't cover the details quite clearly enough!

[@anywhereroam9698]

Thanks for posting the follow up. I’m glad to hear the issue was resolved and that it wasn’t actually the gearbox.

[@philippday9195]

I've always road grip-shift... mostly because early below bar "rapid fire" was sooo bad, slow, vague, and uncomfortable ...it took years before anybody took it seriously. we all switched from above bar to grip-shift cause it was better... if not for shimano's deep pockets below bar would have disappeared IMHO ...and you are correct!!! shifting under load is a terrible practice on any drivetrain ...excellent real world review !!!

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Philip P Day Thanks for the kind words bro! 🤘🏻

[@Mugtree]

Great review. I’ve had rohloffs on my mountain bikes and looking to get a Deviate with a pinion. Can’t wait. Really love gear boxes

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Mugtree yewwwww get on it bro!

[@Mugtree]

Steve Gould will do. Thank you

[@stevefoster7113]

I've had one test ride on a Zerode and I agree with everything you say. I was also a biker and found I was naturally twisting the grip the wrong way. I didn't find a problem with changing gear going uphill, I was able to get the instantaneous pause and change gear within one pedal stroke, and I'm sure I'd get even slicker with practice. (Just like on a motorbike- blip the throttle and snick the gear lever) In some of the reviews so much is made of the fact that you can't change gear under load - what a load of BS. Having had the test ride and going back to derailleur this week, it has been amazing how the drawbacks of the derailleur really show up, especially here in the UK, where the derailleur is constantly clogged with grass, mud, leaves etc. I'm now awaiting a test ride on the Deviate Guide, before deciding which one to buy....

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Thanks for chiming in bro! Glad you found it easy, took me a while, though I'm not the quickest learner for new stuff. Be interesting to see what you think of the deviate with the rear axle path. Zerode wins it for aesthetics IMO but it all comes down to the ride! Reviewing the Zerode Katipo 29er at the mo.....and it's a real weapon!

[@stevefoster7113]

@@SteveGouldChewy I'll post up something after riding the Deviate. I should have said that I didn't just ride the Zerode around the bike shop, I took it for a full day and rode it on some of the most testing of our local trails. On the first section I was a complete chump, but I did get better very quickly. Best climbing and descending bike I've ridden. The lack of unsprung mass really shows through...

[@stevefoster7113]

Hi Steve, I said I'd post after riding the Deviate. The good news is that everything I said about the gearbox remains the same, though I'd like to get your view on the 9 speed, if you have ridden one, as I feel 12 are probably too many gears for the type of up and down riding I normally do. There were some issues with the trial - although we did a decent ride, there was insufficient time to set up the bike properly and the suspension was all over the place, so I can't comment on the handling characteristics of the Deviate. What I can say is that their elevated chainline was not a problem, in fact it seemed really good at repelling dirt and was not noticeably draggy. I think this is a positive advantage over the Zerode, which seemed to gather a lot of crud on the tensioner pulleys. The twist grip was problematic on the test bike, I was told that they do need regular maintenance, which is not what I wanted to hear, so I'm intending to engineer my own mechanism when I get the bike.

[@stevefoster7113]

Hi Steve, mainly for the benefit of anyone searching on Pinion or Deviate, I thought I'd update you on my situation. I bought the Deviate Guide, partly because of the high pivot point but mainly because the Deviate is better for avoiding mud getting on the chain. I specified a 9 speed C line gearbox. I am very happy indeed with the bike. It more than lives up to expectations and is way more capable than me. It'll climb anything and going downhill is just amazing, I got carbon wheels, so the rear end is super light. The gearbox is perfect, the 9 speed has a fabulous range and it's much easier to find the gear you need than the 12 speed. As a bonus it's lighter too. The downsides you mention are there, I wish I'd paid more attention to your comments about the flimsy gearchange cap, as mine disappeared on the first ride. I would recommend adding screws to anyone getting one. I've made a cap which fits much better and seals against dirt and moisture. I'm still in two minds about the gripshift and feel that a regular shifter would be better, as long as it could do three steps in one movement. Using the thumb rather than having to twist your whole hand would be more conducive to agressive riding. I'll be looking at re-engineering it when I get some time, but it's not a priority. The 20 p.o.e. problem is there, but it rarely shows up on the trail. When you look at the design, the only way I can think it could be improved is if they could somehow use sprag clutches instead of pawls. It would be a fundamental re-design. A final note for anyone that might be considering a Deviate - I'm sold on 29er's, so it was a problem for me that the Guide was a 27.5 design. Deviate helped me to choose the right front end so that the geometry would work and it has worked brilliantly as a Mullet. The bike inspires so much confidence.

[@bobwilliamson5574]

I've only ridden derailleur and always " ease off " on the pedals when shifting. Make perfect sense to me .

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Bob Williamson Yes! As you are supposed to. But you will still get caught out at times when you need to shift up a few cogs and find yourself pedalling a little too hard then ‘clunk’. You dont get that on the gearbox.

[@bobwilliamson5574]

@@SteveGouldChewy I agree.

[@skibikeride2000]

Good stuff man, top notch production quality and great in depth content. Keep it up

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Nate Meyer thx for the kind words bro 🤘🏻

[@pavaniparadise2751]

Excellent - no boring oration. Clear expression of thoughts and ideas. thank you.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

HardTrail Rider thanks so much bro 🤘🏻 Ride On 🤘🏻

[@roddas26]

So to shift gears you have to do it properly, like how you're supposed to shift anyways. Got it.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

roddas26 exactly 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@frankm9334]

Check out rev grips. They don't have a locking ring. They make a grip shift compatible grip. Freaking mint. Only took me 3 to 4 weeks to be super confident with the shifting on my zerode. No idea where you get the 3 months from. And the pinion video is perfect. Very simple to follow. No need for commentary. Its litrally like reading an instruction manual.

[@timnewland4186]

I'm sold, if money were no option I'd have a recumbent with a Pinion drive so best get saving. Great vid, thanks .

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Tim Newland cheers bro! 🤘🏻

[@tomfrohlich123]

Thank you for taking the time for this video I'm out searching for a bike now

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Cheers bro! 🤘🏻

[@olivercastling2297]

I rode a 12 speed pinion gearbox on a Sick Headbanger Titanium hardtail for 3 days. Took some getting used to but afterwards I found I was better at shifting on a derailleur due to that pedal pause method. I session a lot of sections on my local trails and it was awesome to pedal up in an easy gear then, while stationary at the top of the section, crank it into the right gear and off you go! I noticed the drag, and on a hardtail you don't get the suspension advantage. I'd choose a gearbox over a derailleur if all things were equal... But I can't afford one!

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Oliver Castling yeah took me three months of riding to get used to it and six months to get good at it. For the first month ( at least ) I was trying to google solutions for to rid my bike of the grip shift. Three days wont be enough. Its like trying to get good at riding and shifting on a MX bike in three days if you’ve never done it.

[@olivercastling2297]

@@SteveGouldChewy honestly, I was comfortable with the shifting on 3 days and prefer it to a derailleur. Grip shift would need 3 months to grow on me though!

[@dindobautista9877]

Very objective and practical review approach done! Keep it up.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

dindo bautista 🙏🏻

[@phalanx3803]

when it come to shifting on something different just treat it as a whole new beast. i grew up on a farm and i was taught how to drive the moment i could reach the pedals when i was old enough my old man taught me how to drive a truck i learnt in the first 10 mins its not like a land cruiser and it was a whole new beast and that's something that's stuck with me my whole life any time i drive something new even another land cruiser that's similar to mine i learn to drive that vehicle that land cruiser and not my land cruiser. that's what gets a lot of people that try a Pinion Gearbox they go in thinking it will perform like a derailer set when they should go in ready for something vastly different. but that's just my point of view.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Phalanx380 that’s a great mindset to have. 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

[@WilliamSmith-hf8um]

Fantastic video Steve, thank you. I wish you would review the Effigear Mimic gearbox, apparently it'll bolt on to any bike that has a pinion gearbox

[@Pillokun]

gearboxes surley are the future. But like I have spammed in other videos about the Pinon Gearbox system it is way overbuilt for a bicycle. The cogs are the same width as fount on cars/motorcycles... They can do the whole system probably half or even a third the width of the system it is now. And then if they want they like introduce a clutch that engages when you start to change the gear. Another thing, they could do a gearbox that fit on normal bikes, placed above the bottombracket. I would buy the shit out of it then :D

[@buckroger6456]

I really wish the big bike brands would put these on their bikes. Would love to buy a gear box setup for my next mtb.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Buck Roger yep, still a bit boutique at the moment. It’s coming though!!

[@buckroger6456]

@@SteveGouldChewy hopefully soon. Been holding off on getting a new mtb for awhile now. Still rocking a 2012 giant reign. I am a little sad that my next bike won't be a 26.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Buck Roger ah right, it only takes half a ride to get used to the bigger wheels and the current bikes are unreal. You’ll love it.

[@buckroger6456]

@@SteveGouldChewy I use to ride a 29er but just liked the 26 better. But yea I've tried some of the new bikes and damn do they got the geo down on the 29ers now.

[@LordFata]

Such a well structured review!

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Weihnachts Mann thank you mate. 🤘🏻

[@EL34XYZ]

I have been using Grip shift since it was grip shift. Now it is SRAM twisters. If I was going to di this system, I would go all the way with the Gates belt drive

[@matthewvale4545]

I don't see why Pinion can't develop a wireless trigger system. If Sram can do it, surely Pinion could

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Matthew Vale one day 🤞🏻

[@b-manz]

Not a matter of ‘can’. More a matter of economics. If people are already complaining of the cost, then how much more would a wireless option add to the cost - especially considering the cost of the R&D.

[@MusikPiratCH]

And remember Pinion is relatively new on the market!

[@svenweihusen57]

@@b-manz well, I think that anyone who wants to spend 3000€+ on a bike will most likely be willing to pay some premium of maybe 300€. People are even paying much more on shiny carbon parts.

[@samaxel_19]

But why pinion gear system is only designed for zeroed only? Can specialized or other brand can do the same?

[@chrisruss8332]

It’s a pity they are already cheapening things up. CINQ make a trigger shift for them. Also a review with Cavalerie’s Effigear gearbox would be awesome.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Chris Russ yeah it seems some parts like the cover are far worse though it may be a different ‘line’ of products. The magnesium casing certainly saves some weight and I heard the moulds to cast these cost 700k euros! Which may be why there is not much competition.

[@cracotator]

Thanx a lot for this very informative video. I still don't agree with 2 aspects of the gearbox: - Maintenance : it's a chain, you still have to carry some grease, clean it, wash it etc... - protection : what about landing on a rock if the ground clearance is not enough ? Which happen a lot in MB Thanks in advance !

[@SteveGouldChewy]

cracotator thx bro! Zerode now offer a belt drive version and a lot of the city bikes use belt drive also. I’d like to get the belt drive set so I can review it too. Not sure if you can see it in the intro but there is a small aluminium bash guard on mine which stops the front chainring from being damaged and also prevents the gearbox a bit. On the zerode website they have the file to 3D print a protective plate to stick to the box also.

[@cracotator]

@@SteveGouldChewy thanx !

[@colombinhodh]

Very good comparition with motorcycle shifting! I have a G2 with nexus, is the same principle.

[@pavelg4990]

Great analysis, it’s rare to find an informative user video and not just a promo clip for the product. I’m in the process for building a custom bikepacking frame for a pinion I got. Are you still happy with your Onyx hub? I’m thinking of going onyx + gates belt for the rig. Cheers!

[@Peanutdenver]

Great vid/subbed...Quick question, is the gearbox (both case and gears) made out of chromoly, stainless or aluminum? I'm curious of exact weight vs cassette/derailer. Aluminum would be a great but wear and tear may be too much over its lifetime. I'm guessing as the tech progresses the gearbox could be made out of titanium or carbon fiber(though that will be super expensive). I am curious to try it on my enduro bike. My bad I just heard you mention the case materials. Are the gears made of aluminum or magnesium? Thanks...

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Hey bro, cheers. The gears will be some kind of hardened steel / chromo blend I guess. I’m gonna say you’ll never wear it out.

[@Peanutdenver]

@@SteveGouldChewy Thanks for the info and again nice vid.

[@joeuwest489]

Excellent bbrief: I’m about to order one

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Awesome bro! Enjoy 🤘🏻

[@thejohnnerparty]

Really good information & perspective.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

John Roth thx buddy. I appreciate the kind words. 🤘🏻

[@polishguywithhardtospellna8227]

Thanks a lot, keeping hope, that maybe one day... Sad to see some promising manufacturers already resigned from pinion support and effigear has like 1 mtb brand - Cavaliere bikes and their price is far and beyond the budget

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Polish guy with hard to spell name ;-p stick with it bro. Reviewing the Zerode Katipo at the moment and man that thing is fast and stable!

[@joachimrydelius2125]

Great video, and great review!

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Joachim Rydelius thanks bro 🤘🏻

[@petermichelson5002]

Do you need a pinion frame specific frame for this pinion gear box?

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Yes you do. I keep kicking myself for not mentioning it.

[@jen3800]

excellent journalism !

[@SteveGouldChewy]

j en thx bro 🤘🏻

[@rabs2020]

That’s a good review now I really wanna try this gearbox but only if it cheaper. The zerode frames only runs about 5k+ US$

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Thx bro. Yes a test ride would be good as its an all in purchase. Once you compare the price of a new, high end frame + drivetrain then its about the same.

[@wolvesareawesome7412]

@@SteveGouldChewy wow! 11 Mons after my last comment I finally owned a zerode taniwha with the pinion gearbox dude this bike rips and I love the way that instant shift gear. But not sure about the random clunk noise while pedaling it only happens once in a while and only happen in between 5- 8 gears is that normal and part of break in period

[@SteveGouldChewy]

@@wolvesareawesome7412 nice one brother. Try easing off the tension on the cables at the barrel adjusters. That’s usually what causes the clunk.

[@rabs2020]

@@SteveGouldChewy ok that could be the reason it making that noise I should of put some slack when I installed the cable shifter. And your right got to have extra cable wires cuz I messed up mine to lol.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

@@rabs2020 🤣 ha ha yeah I do it every time.

[@Modrov]

This is the future... Not a 500 dollar rear mech that do the samething that a 20 dollar ons can do..

[@stefanw4191]

Hi Steve. I've just ordered a new Taniwha Mulet. Due to Covid there's a delay in getting the 12spd pinion option. So Zerode offered me to change my spec to the the 9spd option, because it's available now. I live in high alpine terrain(Austria) so I'm a little unsure what to do. Do you have any helpful suggestions? cheers stefan

[@SteveGouldChewy]

To be honest I’d probably either wait for the 12spd or perhaps, if you can source one from somewhere else, do that and get the bike without the gearbox.

[@kmtb2011]

i guess the shifting will soon be moving towards being electric abit like the new derailleurs complete wireless

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Yes I think so. This would be good as an e-bike with solenoid shifting. If you look at Pinions testing process they use a solenoid ( electric ) shifter. But it’s too bulky for the normal MTB application

[@mtbboy1993]

great review. very detailed, and well explained, and did a nice job with showcasing what you talked about. I am going with traditional gears, cus I am not keen on the gearbox, cus of I want oval chainring to keep pain away, but I agree that gearbox would be better cus of the reasons you mention, but I am not keen on the play in the crank if backpedalling. I run 32T oval and will hopefully get a Box One Rd Xwide soon to use with 11-50T, hope it will be the perfect solution, and for bike I am going with Geometron G1, for fork I am not sure yet.

[@Wog68]

How easy it is to paddle with pinion and how steep climbs you can do? For example Sydney’s landscape is not flat and climbing roads on cliffs could be a challenge.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Very similar to a cassette. I actually prefer it for hilly riding as it shifts gears without delay so I find I shift more often to find the right gear.

[@FatTraction]

Great video! Have you ever used a rohloff hub? I'm trying to decide between the pinion and rohloff for my next bikepacking bike

[@SteveGouldChewy]

FatTraction thx bro. Mine came with my Zerode frame bro.

[@JimiAle]

I was asking myself the same question for my bikepacking-adventure bike. Went for the Pinion as the most logical place to put weight on the bike is around the BB. When going off-road you'll definitely notice a Rohloff weighing down the rear wheel. On the road however, I doubt there's much difference.

[@The_GreenMachine]

well, i guess ill see if that 20 POE is a killer or not. here in Texas we got lots of up/down and techy climbs. hope that 18 degrees of dead zone doesnt make me regret my life choices. i cant stand my rear hub being any more than 3 degrees..

[@SteveGouldChewy]

It does bug me to be honest but it only bugs me .1% of the time which is so little the benefits far outweigh the annoyance.

[@rubenvor]

Awesome review! The future of mtb. Are you part of Raoul Luescher family?

[@SteveGouldChewy]

rubenvor thx mate. Nope! Who’s that?

[@rubenvor]

@@SteveGouldChewy he's the guy who cuts carbon frames in half on KZbin. Can't find his channel right now.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Oh right ha ha, nope never seen it. Why did you ask that? Do I look like him?

[@Wasketa]

If they can include a clutch system it can be more easy to use, you think that? I mean like a car or bike clutch Not a centrifugal clutch

[@SteveGouldChewy]

ScantyHorizon good point. Im sure it would work but it would add more cables, levers, moving parts and weight to solve an issue that doesn’t really exist once you get the hang of unweighting your pedal stroke / timing the shift. Cheers for chiming in bro.

[@manuelabella8748]

how soft the granny gear in pinion compared to 50t of eagle? and how hard is the smallest gear compared to 10t of eagle?

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Manuel Abella good question. I would say the granny ring ratio is equivalent to the sram eagle if you had a 30t front chainring, then with a much taller small gear. ( sram eagle has 500% range, pinion has 600% )

[@BearcatSandor]

I'm assuming that you can't just buy a Pinion drivetrain and install it into any bike. I wish there were a list of frames that you could install them on. I'd love to have this on my 2019 Devinci Troy Carbon.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Thats correct sadly. The frame maker has to build it specifically for this gearbox.

[@MichaelKefeder]

Biggest turn off for me is gripshift, I prefer triggers and leave my hand the way it is on the handlebar.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Michael Kefeder yep, same for me but it does grow on you. Now I prefer it for probably 90% of the shifts.

[@MichaelKefeder]

@@SteveGouldChewy you said so in the video, and those are valid points you make. However downhill I'd like to be stable and I want to be to use any grips/handles on the market. Also going from the experience of fixing my girlfriends citybike gripshifter I'll stay with triggers for that reason too. But as one commenter already noted, maybe pinion will have an electronic shifter, no cables, no gripshift, then it'll be interesting for me :)

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Michael Kefeder Fair enough. I’m kind of hanging for a gearbox e-bike. That will be the future!

[@Shawn-in-da-Canyon]

Michael Kefeder You need to learn how to ride light with your hands. It makes you a better rider. I ride so light with my hands, that the grips are almost banging around inside my hand. Even on technical downhills.

[@anywhereroam9698]

Cinq makes a trigger shifter for the C-line series.

[@coldrider3517]

can this pinion gear set/kit can be installed/used on my bike frame ? Is there a version that can be used that way even if I have to get a few parts specifically machined for that purpose ? ,Cheers & Thank You from the north end , Quebec =D

[@SteveGouldChewy]

ColdRider no mate. Your frame needs to be made specifically to use this gearbox. Zerode and Deviate make an Enduro version.

[@coldrider3517]

@@SteveGouldChewy dang !!! =} i'd be looking for a cruiser roadster style frame , city transport is what i'm workin on now , I now have my Porucho frame right here and searching for parts . I'm having a hard time finding a dual crown suspension fork that is not 200mm travel ,I want to have my e-bike to look like a motorcycle see .100-125mm travel and fully serviceable + ride adjustable quality suspension is what I aim for ,you know some ? ty for the reply btw cheers & ride safe ;-)

[@SteveGouldChewy]

ColdRider oh wow. Right...... no idea about those types of builds sorry 😐

[@jackassjellyfish9990]

People who ride on motorcycles will pick this up instantly.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

I totally agree. I’m also a moto guy and the moto / MX community seems to be a very well educated market, far more so than the MTB community. There is so many MX setup videos online and the access to information seems much more readily available. Cheers for chiming in.

[@jackassjellyfish9990]

By the way can the gearbox a good hit right where the bottom.... bracket? Is it still called a bottom bracket? Why dont they just called it a geard bottom bracket.?

[@SteveGouldChewy]

It’s a magnesium housing on the newer boxes so prob not a huge collision. Zerode has a free download for the file to 3D print a protective plate for it 👌🏻

[@garyfindlay5503]

Thank you for your video. Has anyone looked at combining a pinion gearbox with an ebike motor?

[@aaronfuksa2047]

Exactly my thoughts, but far fetched. I want it mounted to a part of the frame instead & use a belt drive to rear wheel. Mid drive motor ebike.

[@michaelstevens9434]

Check out the downloadable manual for the C-line gearbox. It has good instructions on doing the gear cables and installing the new DS2 shifter. Great to print out and have when working on your bike.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Michael Stevens oh wow, thanks for that bro. Will definitely take a look 🤘🏻

[@theslightlyhillyrider969]

I used to have grip shift derailleurs on my bike, and it always annoyed me how sometimes when you manual, or absorb a hard landing, it would shift. Is this a problem with pinion?

[@SteveGouldChewy]

The Slightly Hilly Rider 🤔 I set up my grip so I have 3 fingers on the static grip and my forefinger and thumb to shift, but, my forefinger covers the brake unless im shifting. That said, I ride motos a lot so im wondering if it’s something you’d have to adapt to? Good point, thx for chiming in.

[@theslightlyhillyrider969]

@@SteveGouldChewy yeah, I think I'd want to test ride one a few times before making a decision. Great video though, cleared some things up for me! (Like how people are concerned about drag when backpedalling or pedalling, not freewheeling like I thought they were saying)

[@alexmorgan3435]

The chain tensioner is in a very unfortunate position right by the tyre to get covered in mud and crud. LoL. A belt and sliding rear drop out to tension would be far better.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Alex Morgan yeah it does get noisy too if its a dusty ride. I actually put a neoprene sock the latex glove fingers over the spring to keep the spring coils oiled and free of dust.

[@Designwiser2]

A sliding rear dropout would only work if the suspension pivot was centrally around the bottom bracket (giving negative pedalling influence on the suspension). Since on the Zerode it is not, it is placed in the chain line so that pedalling is separated from suspension forces, the chain does extend and contract a tiny amount. With a sliding dropout this would tension and slacken the chain/belt during suspension movement and create problems. The tensioner is critical and it is in a location which forces the chain to wrap more around the chainring - pretty much as a chain retainer and I’m certain it will be incredibly effective. I agree with you that you might need to clear the mud from the tensioner occasionally - a small price to pay in my opinion.

[@gerardorecalde1966]

who makes the gearbox, how can I get one, do you know who the manufacturer is?

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Pinion is the company name bud. You cant just change to a gearbox, you also need a frame that can fit it.

[@outthereindustries7413]

Have you ride the Katipo?

[@outthereindustries7413]

Yes, it just appeared in the vid

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Yep. Been on it since it dropped. Review on the way soon.

[@jon98tj]

Great review. Earned a sub. Can we get a review update.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Jon Tuttle thx bro. This is pretty much my long term review. All still the same from my perspective. 🤘🏻

[@zPtrck]

In the future that gearbox will improve and can shift underload.. etc.. like motorcycle gearbox..

[@bjogen1]

Patrick - a Pinion gearbox works exactly as a motorcycle gearbox, which neither really works well under (heavy) load. On a motorcycle you do in principle same thing; you drop the torque for a fraction of a sec to change gear. But as the rpm of an engine is quite much higher than our cadence, it will take slightly more time! :-)

[@zPtrck]

@@bjogen1 there is constant mesh with semi automatic transmission. In lower CC bikes the clutch is integrated to the shift lever. If this is applied in this gearbox it would be flawless. (On the other hand today's pinion gearbox your clutch is your cadence for pros :) like driving a car not using the clutch pedal just perfect shift all the time and no grinding gears). Only problem with it is the price. Too expensive.

[@b-manz]

According to one report, a gearbox is 3% less efficient. In other words not a lot for most riders. If you are wanting to beat Nino it’s an issue. Otherwise, get over it! The noise in certain gears (especially 3 & 6) is why some riders think it’s draggy. It’s really not.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Dog House yeah I saw that too but it didn’t take into account the efficiency loss of a cassette in the top and lowest gears when the chain line is not straight. And efficiency loss only matters when you are pedalling. Thx for chiming in bro.

[@johncoles4871]

why dont they make it a battery shifter so the levers can stay the normal way, a cable actually on just the gearbox for tension...

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Thx for chiming in bro. There is a company now doing a conversion kit ( someone linked it in another comment ). It still has its restrictions. I also extensively searched options and didn’t find anything I thought would do the job and by then I was used to the grip shift to the point where I preferred it. You need to stick it out in my opinion and simply learn the different shift style. A bit like learning to shift an mx bike. Its strange at first.

[@Davran2742]

Funnily, I remember when gripshift was new and avant garde :)

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Yes and it’s amazing how polarising it is today. It’s certainly has its advantages and disadvantages.

[@Davran2742]

@@SteveGouldChewy -- I found gripship simple and effective, but I didn't like having to twist my wrist to shift on a downhill like you mention.

[@DS-vy5ph]

Any interest in doing a video on how to route the Pinion cables for motorcycle style shifting?

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Drew Seifert nope 🤣 may require a lot of sensorship beeps 🤘🏻🤣

[@krushnapathak6513]

from where Can i order it bro and what would be a Price

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Krushna Pathak Hey buddy. I should have mentioned these usually come with the bike as the frame has to be specifically designed to use this box. You cannot simply fit one to replace your derailleur and cassette.

[@Norway-BOY-MTB-Mountainbike]

HI,From Norway !!

[@sutatsinohydro-itd.jv.6876]

Where I can buy it?

[@SteveGouldChewy]

ZerodeBikes.com

[@g0me2z]

Its there a way to install and use a traditional shifter ?

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Not really or in a way that better than the gripshift. I’ve seen it done with dual paddles ( kind of like a dropper post lever for each thumb ) so it’s still dual cable and a bit complicated. Effigear boxes have a big externals preload spring so it can use a sram shifter but pinion can’t.

[@philmay7834]

If my SRAM XO drivetrain is %500, and the 12 speed Pinion gearbox is %600, so a little more of a spread for the Pinion....who would need the 18 speed?

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Yeah it’s huge. I would say something like and adventure / bike packing bike would utilise the extra gears. I think 9 or 12 covers everything for DH to Trail 🤘🏻

[@PghMtbRides]

What about internal hubs vs pinion

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Good question. Easy Answer. If you have a bike that uses rear suspension then a geared hub is not ideal as it adds unsprung mass which is terrible for suspension performance.

[@surendrakprajapati3273]

I want to buy this gearbox in India from where in India

[@SteveGouldChewy]

SURENDRA K PRAJAPATI I’m not sure how to buy it separately as it came with my Zerode frame. Probably best to contact Pinion directly.

[@douglasmckinley-sr1507]

17% step between every step does not give you 600% overall ratio with 12 gears. Perhaps the granny or top gear has a larger gear step?

[@AutiSam1974]

its actually 11 x 17.7% steps which gives 600.54% (the 11th power of 1.177)

[@douglasmckinley-sr1507]

@@AutiSam1974 Thanks. You are correct using 17.7% it comes out to 600% overall.

[@mrjohnnybond]

Sign of the devil at beginnig oi vid. Classy.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

mrjohnnybond 🤣🤘🏻

[@hunj9863]

Is it proper to road bike, too?

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Hun J I don’t have any road or city bike experience so I targeted this to what I consider to be my audience / relevant to my other reviews.

[@ЯияЯияия]

Thank you👍👌👏👏👏

[@GGori_99]

I think it wont be great for fast road bike?????

[@SteveGouldChewy]

GGori 99 prob not for a race road bike. If you want an ultra reliable city bike or an adventure bike to go around Europe it would work but not for road or track racing. Gravity bikes is the best for the gearbox.

[@anipnip5748]

Penjualannya belum sampai ke Indonesia?

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Anip Nip sorry bro, can you type English?

[@taufikabidin412]

@@SteveGouldChewy Has it sales reached Indonesia?

[@SteveGouldChewy]

I have no idea. I guess so but you need a frame that can fit a gearbox, you can’t simply install it to an existing bike frame.

[@anipnip5748]

Steve Gould no

[@anipnip5748]

Steve Gould bicause I never use type English.

[@safvanm3446]

How can I buy that

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Safvan Mp you need a bike that is especially made for this gearbox bro

[@safvanm3446]

Yap

[@safvanm3446]

I am from 🇮🇳 India I searched many places but didn't get a place for shoping it

[@safvanm3446]

Do you have any idia

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Jump on Facebook and search Loose Riders India. They are my friends. I really don’t know about what bikes are available there. Im from Hong Kong and just review it. I dont make the bikes.

[@jakobw135]

How does the Pinion 12 speed compare to the Rohloff 14 speed? Also, the Pinion is ~ 90% efficient, the Rohloff is 95% and a Cassette is ~ 97%.efficient. Finally, there IS a difference between applying pedal power to a GEARED crank and transmitting the result to the rear (Pinion), and pedaling the crank directly and transmitting this to the GEARED rear wheel.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Jakob W Thanks for chiming in bro. Those percentages are interesting though I would argue that a perfectly aligned single speed chain like on a race bmx may be 97% efficient but you certainly drop that efficiency when the chain is misaligned like on the outer sprockets of a 12 speed cassette. Be interesting to see the drop off for each cog out from the middle one.

[@emilposselt5607]

New pinion can shift under load

[@Wog68]

“Wishy washy”... 😊 you are Aussie, ain’t yo?😊

[@SteveGouldChewy]

🤣

[@dank6761]

What I don't get is why not kill two birds with one stone and create a centrally mounted CVT gearbox. There is already hub mounted CVT transmissions so why not take the advantages of the Pinion gearbox placement and simply maje it a CVT. To me this would be the answer but although the tech has been around for decades no one is doing it. All these companies like Ceramic Speed with their non sensical drivetrain are pouring money and development trying to perfect designs that are less than ideal.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Dan K very true. Though I would think that CVT would be better suited to city type use. I think you would need cadence control for MTB / tech. Thats said, id have to try it. E-Gearbox is the future in my opinion.

[@kaedeschulz5422]

It's nice yet Isn't an option for me because of it's huge deadspot.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Dead spot? Do you mean the lack of engagement points?

[@kaedeschulz5422]

@@SteveGouldChewy Yea the amount of nothingness that you pedal into before you actually put load on the transmission. I hope they will make it better for MTB stuff in the future. I love the idea of such a drivetrain but don't like that parts of it as it's problematic when doing techy low speed stuff.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Yeah I agree. It is more difficult for the tech uphills. There might be a solve for it on the horizon but nothing soon.

[@kaedeschulz5422]

@@SteveGouldChewy I Guess we will see... It's been a long time since this transmission launched.

[@maximiliankeller7307]

8:22 For changing the cables there's a video from Pinion maybe it helps you kzbin.info/www/bejne/mp6cc6mqbdNperM

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Yep, that’s the video I reference. Its fine until you want to reverse the cables like I do. Maybe I’m just a bit ‘special’ 🤣🤘🏻

[@matterisnotsolid8295]

Don't understand why you would use a gearbox with a chain and not a belt

[@SteveGouldChewy]

I recently changed to a belt since they released the kit for my bike and it’s fantastic. Some bikes you can’t split the rear triangle so they have to run a chain. Otherwise belt for sure 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

[@sergeis2746]

👍

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Sergei S thx bro 🤘🏻

[@The_Unobtainium]

1000 euros for f*king gearbox!?!?!?!?!?!

[@SteveGouldChewy]

I live in a garage yep! About the same as the top ( non electronic shift ) drivetrain from Shimano or SRAM but lasts way longer. Still expensive though, especially when the whole bike costs the same as my moto.......

[@mtbboy1993]

Not strange, it's alot of presise machined moving parts assambled lots of material, engeneering, of course it will cost a lot, like a high end suspension fork or shock, it will cost you. But but if it's a basic bike, like rigid bike then it might be the most expensive thing on it.

[@mtbboy1993]

@@SteveGouldChewy sram seems to have quality issues, bad tolerances atleast wihh Gxp cranks.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Johannes Nilsen yeah I’ve always had longevity / reliability issues with everything SRAM. Seems good for about 3 months then rapidly declines.

[@breathlessMay]

There is only one correct way to do it .... If you reverse things, then thats on you mate.. :) [ yes, thats German for you ]

[@SteveGouldChewy]

none ha ha ha exactly 🤣

[@stevent1565]

Lacks visual aids showing how it looks like as u explain wht u r talking about hence no idea wht u r referring to most of the time.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Thanks bro. Working on improving the 'B-Roll' to help explain. Such a mission to make these vids.....

[@stevent1565]

@@SteveGouldChewy cheers i enjoy ur reviews either way.

[@ro63rto]

"Grip shift is a new way of shifting" Well, you obviously never rode a Raleigh Grifter then 🤔 Probably too young.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

ro63rto ha ha ha, new to most I should have said. We didn’t get many Raleighs in Aus. I actually have a 1982 Redline MXII in my collection 👌🏻

[@ro63rto]

@@SteveGouldChewy Nice 👌 The Grifter was a BMX in looks only. Weighed about 3 X as much 😁

[@suparjanrasyid]

This gearbox must adopt the F1 car transmission, with dog gear to shift smoothly while paddling

[@SteveGouldChewy]

Suparjan Rasyid i think it’s possible if it’s solenoid actuated. The cable just isnt strong enough.

[@podunkman2709]

Great solution but this gripshit sucks. This is NOT about 'u have to used to'. This is unprecise, takes time, gives terrible sound, you ALWAYS have problem with glove. Solution for weekend bikers.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

I 100% agree........at first BUT you really do get used to it and prefer it ( in almost every situation except the one situation I mentioned ) 👊🏻

[@SolarizeYourLife]

The box cost more than the rest of the bike....

[@SteveGouldChewy]

No it doesn’t 🤣 take a look at the build. 👊🏻

[@SolarizeYourLife]

@@SteveGouldChewy so you're saying this is a $3000 bike... No thanks

[@SteveGouldChewy]

@@SolarizeYourLife nope. It’s closer to 10k.

[@borodiraul]

Piei

[@falkmap7491]

This boy talks exactly the prospekt facts, so ridiculous

[@dalecs47]

Sorry, I can't get past your intro. For sure some people get off on it, but it is insulting to me. Thanks.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

dalecs47 can you elaborate? I have no idea what you are referring to?

[@dalecs47]

@@SteveGouldChewy Sorry, I was in a bad mood and should not have said anything. It was the music and opening graphics. I should have just skipped over it. Sorry.

[@SteveGouldChewy]

dalecs47 I don’t have any writing and the music in the B-roll is instrumental 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@markallen4458]

Ridiculous..