Roy Williams of Airframe Components talks about Piper PA28/32 wing walk cracks and wing walk replacement. Airframe Components Wing & Control Surface Repair www.airframecomponents.com 260-347-0807 Kendallville, Indiana U.S.A.
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@jeepcomj8546 жыл бұрын
Very good video. It would appear to me that it would be wise to also remove the fuel tank to gain access, and that removal of the wing is certainly the way to go. I've got a customer with pa-28-151 in need of forward and aft replacement, as well as another with a pa-28r-201T in need of forward replacement. We await the results of inspection of ER and results to perform these jobs.
@airplanegeek8936 жыл бұрын
JeepCo MJ just curious, how much a project like this would cost? I have a PA140... I don’t have this problem but it would be good to know.
@scottboomshakalaka95934 жыл бұрын
I physically separate the top skin from the under structure to match the shape and the rivet holes. It’s actually pretty easy. Just need 2 people to buck the rivets 👌👍
@klrmoto5 жыл бұрын
Has there ever been a discussion of adding two more ribs in the wing walk area? Maybe it could be an intermediate panel stiffener between the ribs and parallel to the ribs that would help distribute a step load over a larger number of the existing bead stiffiners.
@dennissullivan71193 жыл бұрын
One of the local school p28-161 has a soft wing walk. It appears some of the rivets in that rib are missing completely and two were replaced with blind rivets. Is that forward rib under the wing walk structural?
@jrags09516 жыл бұрын
Nice job. I'm pretty sure that's not something I want to do myself. Glad you have the skills!
@kevinjarchow88124 жыл бұрын
This was done on my Warrior a few a couple of years back. The mechanic did it without taking off the wing. I've got pictures somewhere. It was pretty interesting. But certainly not cheap.
@jefferykirk23222 жыл бұрын
Where you happy with the job he did ?
@kevinjarchow88122 жыл бұрын
@@jefferykirk2322 Yes. No issues what so ever.
@5738W Жыл бұрын
Excellent Video sir, My AP found one oblong area cracked on my plane (Where you have the sharpie draw in) would you have any clue as to how long in the panels life it would take to form multiple cracks? Thank You!
@flybobbie14496 жыл бұрын
Just about every PA28 i have walked on creeks in that area. Are replacements any thicker in the pressed area. Interesting to note the corrosion at the back of the box near the rear mounting. Looks like a water trap.
@mattf490066 жыл бұрын
while they were on retractable models..seems to me a good time to inspect the spar attachment points that failed and cracks found on the PAs in florida
@andrewarmstrong73105 жыл бұрын
Saltwater is highly corrosive to Aluminum. I live on the Texas Gulf coast, always a big concern for any aircraft and why I spent the bucks to hanger my planes, a lot cheaper than fixing corrosion.
@theflightpractitioner72886 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for preparing this....very timely for me.
@johnbinikos12545 жыл бұрын
Roy what is the estimate weight of the Cherokee 6 wing panel?
@davidb20456 жыл бұрын
About 6:15 or so you say blind rivets aren't allowed to be used in wing spars per AC 43.13 but I've been unable to find this requirement. Is this really verboten?
@FINSuojeluskunta6 жыл бұрын
They are not allowed unless specifically authorized by the manufacturer. Too much strength is bad too, leads to cracking
@davidb20456 жыл бұрын
Pitkä Peura Actually AC 43.13-1B says that blind rivets shall not be used in areas that are "high stress", which this gentleman is assuming means "anything that is attached to the wing spar", which is incorrect. The spar is unaffected whether it is a blind or solid rivet. Hence it is acceptable to use blind rivets to attach the wing walk area without removing the wing. But then you can't charge those hours so...
@FINSuojeluskunta6 жыл бұрын
Straight from the blind rivets section: CAUTION: For metal repairs to the air frame, the use of blind rivets must be spe cifically authorized by the airframe manu facturer or approved by a representative of the FAA.
@davidb20456 жыл бұрын
Pitkä Peura So not just the manufacturer, gottit.
@FINSuojeluskunta6 жыл бұрын
Problem is with all the hours and equipment(?) required to show the FAA the strength would be the same(possible upsizing of holes, or number of holes) you might as well take the loss and pay the extra cash with what you'd be losing in downtime assuming you rent it out. It certainly would turn a nightmare job into something your local sheet metal shop could do in a day or 2. Don't actually know in reality if they would even consider it for approval, and if they did what information and to what extent they actually need, not just what their papers say they need.
@ThePlanefixr6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for taking the time to make this video Roy! Quick question, Has Piper made any improvements to the wing walk skins? Seems like an Easy repair to replace the skins (No 337) but I would hope there is a beef up in the works?
@airplanegeek8936 жыл бұрын
Not a sheet metal expert here, but I would had thought that you could use cherry rivets for the installation of this panels... I’m I wrong?
@lowifrles98136 жыл бұрын
Yes. You are.
@andrewarmstrong73105 жыл бұрын
Next time your up close to an older Boeing 737 or 747 take a hard look and what holds it together, but they are not allowed on GA aircraft as the extra strength leads to cracking on thinner panels.
@mhoeltken Жыл бұрын
AC43-14 allows them to be used (as mechanicall locking rivets): Mechanical-lock rivets have a device on the puller or rivet head which locks the center stem into place when installed. Many friction-lock rivet center stems fall out due to vibrations; this in turn, greatly reduces its shear strength. The mechanical-lock rivet was developed to prevent that problem. Various manufacturers make mechanical-lock fasterners such as: Bulbed Cherrylock, CherryMax, Olympic-Loks, and Huck-Loks.
@owsamvlogs1096 жыл бұрын
Hey can a scrap plane upgrade?
@andrewarmstrong73105 жыл бұрын
Depends on how much $$$ you think it is worth. I always tell people to buy what you can afford to maintain.
@larrygreen89126 жыл бұрын
To replace the wing walk he had to pull the engine off , the interior out and remove the wing ? Glad I have a Cessna
@davidb20456 жыл бұрын
We did this on our PA-28-181 without removing the wing, just a fuel tank. It was easy.
@andrewarmstrong73105 жыл бұрын
Deaths Decade:______Piper________Cessna 70's_________ 1854________ 2196 80's_________ 1318________ 1858 90's__________ 905________ 1247 00's__________ 549_________ 850 Total:______4,626_______6,151 Cessna increased only 33% VS. a 49% baseline. Accidents Decade:_____Piper_____Cessna 70's_______10,474_____15,784 80's________6,462_____11,624 90's________4,087______7,585 00's________2,444______4,579 Total:____23,467____39,572 Cessna increased only 69% VS. a 49% baseline.
@joseargente82745 жыл бұрын
@@davidb2045 hey, how did you do that? from wich part of the wing did you replace the wing walk?
@FISHH00KS4 жыл бұрын
According to the video, he also had to remove the landing gear, baggage door, all the wiring and insulation, instrument panel, control yoke, windscreens, the complete firewall forward. He needed to scrap the airplane in order to replace the wing walk. You should trade your Cessna in on a brain.
@andyburk48256 жыл бұрын
I just would use some scrap aluminum sheet and a pop rivets from Home Depot - easy peasy.
@sp7695 жыл бұрын
Why bother. Just paint over it.
@raincoast23965 жыл бұрын
Just replace these wing walk skins with 1/8 inch thick aluminum plate. Solved.
@dpurplefox5 жыл бұрын
fly a piper until the wing fall off. the only aircraft piper ever built is the cubs
@FarmerTed5 жыл бұрын
So how do you remove the troublesome rivets......that might have been valuable information. Poor job helping us. Anyone can point out trouble, the good one can tell us how to fix it.
@REDMAN2985 жыл бұрын
He probably failed to mention removing rivets due to repercussions from winers like you. Do people a favor and they`ll use it against you.
@FarmerTed5 жыл бұрын
Blow me Greg! You troll douche bag!
@FarmerTed5 жыл бұрын
Hey Greg I know your mom said your “special” but she meant it another way from what you think.
@FISHH00KS4 жыл бұрын
Oh Farmer Ted, if you can't solve problems on your own, stay in the field and turn dirt. For the life of me, I can't understand how anyone can make it through life with half a brain. On the other hand, it's probably really easy going through life not knowing what you don't know and never trying to solve problems. I guess you just don't think about things.
@jimmywrangles6 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't fly in a piper, the wings fall off.
@andrewarmstrong73105 жыл бұрын
Deaths Decade:______Piper________Cessna 70's_________ 1854________ 2196 80's_________ 1318________ 1858 90's__________ 905________ 1247 00's__________ 549_________ 850 Total:______4,626_______6,151 Cessna increased only 33% VS. a 49% baseline. Accidents Decade:_____Piper_____Cessna 70's_______10,474_____15,784 80's________6,462_____11,624 90's________4,087______7,585 00's________2,444______4,579 Total:____23,467____39,572 Cessna increased only 69% VS. a 49% baseline.
@markthompson37975 жыл бұрын
Flimsy aluminum. Glad I don't fly one. Wing should not fall off the airplane in flight.
@dennisnbrown5 жыл бұрын
I’m glad you don’t fly one as well. All planes have issues.
@dgholt19806 жыл бұрын
no need to start watching until 2:40, I suggest you cut everything before this time.
@Jolinator3 жыл бұрын
No such thing as too much information in the Aviation world!
@FISHH00KS4 жыл бұрын
This seems unnecessary. A panel on top of the wing? Because of cracks in the ends of the stiffener flutes? I don't think any Piper has ever crashed due to this.
@ronwade5433 Жыл бұрын
You don't want me wing walking, I'm too fat now!
@kevinmoore48876 жыл бұрын
Any tips on how to avoid cracking wing walk skins? Where to walk. Shoes to avoid. Other.
@larrygreen89126 жыл бұрын
Kevin Moore .....I have one buy a Cessna .
@immortaljatt056 жыл бұрын
One would assume you'd wanna put ur foot on the Rib of the wing vs in-between them. Just basing off common sense
@blackhawks81H6 жыл бұрын
@@larrygreen8912 Or if you happen to be of the male gender, you could buy a citabria or decathlon. Hell, any taildragger will do. Those are just ones I've owned. I will say however, I've flown in a lot of pipers over the years and after seeing how the wings are built and especially how they're attached. (or barely attached) to the fuselage... I'm not sure I ever want to do so again. At least not unless I personally know the mechanic. I still hate flying a plane as boring as a 152 or 172... But I'd still rent one from a random small town airport in BFE and feel safe. Flying it.... Pipers? Not so much anymore. Walk into same airport in north BFE and the guy says "sure, we got an old warrior for rent"... Yeah no feckin way Bud. I don't need a wing flying off randomly when I'm cruising along minding my own business. Boring as a Cessna is, at least the wings are properly attached from the factory. And yeah. I know my Citabria had a wooden spar, but wood doesn't suffer from metal fatigue from repeated bending. My decathlon is upgraded with composite spars... I'm not worried about delamination or anything like that because with my plane it's less of a wing, and more of a series of inspection panels with little bits of wing attached every so often. Lol.
@larrygreen89126 жыл бұрын
blackhawks81H ... we have a Stearman and a L3 I very much enjoy the vintage aircraft. Stearman is OK to takeoff a dream to fly and a bitch to land .
@andrewarmstrong73105 жыл бұрын
@@larrygreen8912 Without the skylights. They leak and kill a wing.
@amejaremy5 жыл бұрын
Hi, thanks for the videos. Is the issues with the wingwalk similar on the Piper Comanche? Are the repairs similar?
@cockpitconfessions3 жыл бұрын
roughly how much will this replacement cost
@jrdeckard33175 жыл бұрын
So your 400 lb girlfriend should not ride with you?
@1212CRMD2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@williamfoster46095 жыл бұрын
Very nice presentation.
@markzahra-hansell70205 жыл бұрын
Very knowledgeable. Thankyou
@angelreading50986 жыл бұрын
Highly specialised work,those solid rivets must be a pain to deal with.
@justinhendrickson66256 жыл бұрын
Angel Reading I built the wing walks "roots" for the 28s at the Vero beach piper for the past two years deff not easy
@warrenoakes34216 жыл бұрын
Very dry
@carmelpule69545 жыл бұрын
I do not like the manner in which that spar is attached to the fuselage. Those holes right opposite each other may well be fine on the top of the spar where there is compression, but at the bottom where there is impulsive tension, well, the last set of holes going towards the wing tips are subjected to very high stress and a possibility of crack is very high. Rather than drilling the holes right opposite each other, the distance between the holes could have been lengthened by drilling opposite between the holes, even if it means one less bolt to use. On an overhead hanging traveler, I was faced with the same problem and reinforced that area. Piper should look into that wing attachment.
@jefferykirk23222 жыл бұрын
How about showing use how to run some rivets.
@ryannickos35572 жыл бұрын
Because you aren't legally allowed to repair unless if you are a holder of an A&P cert. If a mechanic didn't know how to "run some rivets" then how the hell would he had received his cert.
@jefferykirk23222 жыл бұрын
@@ryannickos3557 I builing semi trailers for 30 years and I was wondering 🤔 how you bucked rivets on a plane in some of those spots and I will get my A&P in do time !
@turks24 Жыл бұрын
Also because if you are not skilled enough to do this work now, this is not the job to build your skill on/ practice on!
@captlarry-35256 жыл бұрын
since there is only one door and it is on the right side.. we probably don't need to be told that is also where the wing walk is .. Multiple redundancies in the first two minutes but after that good information.
@daveblane64424 жыл бұрын
WHY would you want to fly in a FORTY YEAR OLD plane??